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skud_dusty
01-26-2012, 12:41
I've been on the quest for a perfect CCW pistol for years now. I've got from Glocks to Sigs to 1911s and everything in between. There are a small handful of manufacturers that I haven't actually owned, and most I've tried in gun shops. I finally settled on an Officer's sized 1911 for my current carry gun, but couldn't get over how heavy it is. As a few of you know my buying/selling/trading has gotten completely out of hand trying to find "the one" only to be continually wasting time and money.

Yesterday I set out to see what I could find. I had some money in my pocket, a full tank of gas, and an understanding girlfriend that didn't mind tagging along on a 100+ mile road trip to visit 6 of my favorite gun shops. After spending most of the day playing with guns I haven't tried before and being severely disappointed, I was at the point where I thought I should just buy another Glock and make myself like it.

When we pulled into the last gun shop I saw a pistol I had heard about more than 2 years ago but had never seen.

http://i.imgur.com/3s9Eo.jpg

Bersa is best know for their Walther PPK clones but they also produce a model called the Thunder which is somewhat similar to the Walther P88. This pistol is a new venture for them and as far as I'm aware is their first real stand-alone design.

http://i.imgur.com/VyulR.jpg

The feel is very Kahr-like. The pistol itself is very slim, although a bit top heavy. In the hand it feels like a smoothed over Kahr with no sharp edges and a rubbery grip. The trigger is kind of odd, there is quite a bit of take-up with some roughness as the internal safeties are disengaged. It has a fairly light but obvious breaking point that, after a few dry fires, feels easily staged. The reset is what amazed me most about this pistol, it is VERY short and audible. I would almost go so far as to say it's better than a Glock's reset. Quick shooting should be extremely easy with this pistol.

As far as size, the pistol is quite small.

http://i.imgur.com/bWm5e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/F9NOT.jpg

In hand it feels larger than it actually is. While being extremely thin, it's large enough to get a good solid thumbs-forward grip. It's hard to describe; this pistol feels like it was made for my hands. All the bumps and grooves fit right where my fingers go with my normal grip, something I haven't found before on any pistol.

Speaking of thin, this thing makes a compact 1911 look like a Glock 21.

http://i.imgur.com/1Po2e.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/D7gXK.jpg

As far as accessories go, holsters are few and far between at the moment. I've read that Kahr CW9 holsters will fit but haven't tested this theory out myself yet. Further reading has also shown me that Bersa uses a Sig front sight and a Glock rear sight, so night sights will be easy to come by. I'm not sure why the company decided to go that route, but it's what I'm told.

I still have a lot of evaluating to do myself, but it sounds like the pistol will be a very solid performer. In hand it feels like a Kahr with a Glock trigger. If it shoots as well as it feels I'm sold.

JimIsland
01-26-2012, 12:57
I like it. I have had a Bersa 380 Thunder for nearly 15 years and it has been trouble free and seems well built. Although it's not the smallest 380 out there, the ergonomics are great. Please keep us posted if you decide to purchase it as I would be very interested in one as well.

skud_dusty
01-26-2012, 13:05
I did end up purchasing it for $400 out the door. It seems like they are a little cheaper in other states, but we don't have sales tax here. Just need to buy some ammo and get some range time in and we'll see how it goes.

bac1023
01-26-2012, 15:32
Very nice :)

The Habit
01-26-2012, 15:57
I'm really interested in the BP9CC. I've yet to see one in a LGS so I haven't had a chance to finger molest one yet. I'm keen to read about extended owner experiences.

skud_dusty
01-26-2012, 18:44
Well I had some mixed success at the range today. I didn't clean the gun prior to shooting as upon field stripping there appeared to be a normal amount of oil inside the pistol with no left over bits from machining that I could see. I took 200 rounds with me laid out as follows: 50 147gr Winchester Silvertip JHP, 50 115gr Magtech FMJ, 50 115gr American Eagle FMJ, and 50 115gr Remington UMC JHP. I began with the American Eagle which fed fired and extracted all 50 cartridges. Towards the end of the box I had one magazine start failing to lock back. It happened 2 or 3 times then completely went away for the remainder of the day. The same magazine caused the failure and I could not get the problem to come back with any other ammo. I'm guessing it might have been part of break-in or I just wasn't seating the mag fully.

The second box, which was Remington JHP, went fine with no major complaints. Brass was being ejected towards my 4 o'clock maybe 3 yards away. It wasn't flinging brass, but left them in a nice neat spot on the ground. When I got into the third box, just after the 100 round mark I started getting failure to ejects. I scraped a little bit of buildup out from under the extractor with my knife and things started going smooth again. All in all I had maybe 10 failure to extracts from the second 100 rounds I put through it. Some ejection seemed weak, with the cases sitting neatly on top of the magazine when the slide locked back. Going through and cleaning the gun I found nothing out of the ordinary and by round 175 things seemed to have cleaned up a bit with the failures being more spread apart. When they started happening they were one right after another.

I don't trust the gun for carry yet. I'm hoping it just needs a bit of a break-in period as many other guns of this size do. If it continues through the next 200 rounds I'll be contacting the manufacturer to see what they suggest. The extractor looks like it's getting a good bite on the rim of the rounds I manually fed it and there seems to be plenty of tension so I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

I did find a holster at the gunshop I bought ammo from. Tagua Gunleather makes an IWB holster for the LC9 which fit this little Bersa like it was made for it.

unit1069
01-26-2012, 22:35
Thanks for the report. Another GT member has a positive BP9CC report and I do believe I'll be picking one of these new mico Bersas up before long.

skud_dusty
01-27-2012, 00:12
From what I've seen I'm the only one so far that's had issues. People on Bersachat.com think the problem might be the fact that I didn't do a thorough cleaning before my first outing. The company has a history of using a packing grease that isn't very conducive to reliability.

Small Tony
01-27-2012, 01:06
I was just to start another Bersa thread. Glad I saw this one first. I think my question isn't hijacking this thread but I was interested in this Bersa 45

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=270705244#PIC

I too was wondering what others were thinking of this pistol?

The Habit
01-27-2012, 18:27
Just found out one of my LGS has the two tone BP9CC for $375. That price sound about right? I'm hoping to check it out on Monday.

skud_dusty
01-28-2012, 02:46
From what I read they starting selling at $350 but because they have been very hard to come by $400 out the door isn't out of line.

High Altitude
01-28-2012, 18:38
You definitely need to clean and oil the gun before shooting. I just bought a BP9cc today at a gunshow. The pistol is full of some type of preservative, but it isn't really a gun oil. It isn't that slick at all.



Well I had some mixed success at the range today. I didn't clean the gun prior to shooting as upon field stripping there appeared to be a normal amount of oil inside the pistol with no left over bits from machining that I could see. I took 200 rounds with me laid out as follows: 50 147gr Winchester Silvertip JHP, 50 115gr Magtech FMJ, 50 115gr American Eagle FMJ, and 50 115gr Remington UMC JHP. I began with the American Eagle which fed fired and extracted all 50 cartridges. Towards the end of the box I had one magazine start failing to lock back. It happened 2 or 3 times then completely went away for the remainder of the day. The same magazine caused the failure and I could not get the problem to come back with any other ammo. I'm guessing it might have been part of break-in or I just wasn't seating the mag fully.

The second box, which was Remington JHP, went fine with no major complaints. Brass was being ejected towards my 4 o'clock maybe 3 yards away. It wasn't flinging brass, but left them in a nice neat spot on the ground. When I got into the third box, just after the 100 round mark I started getting failure to ejects. I scraped a little bit of buildup out from under the extractor with my knife and things started going smooth again. All in all I had maybe 10 failure to extracts from the second 100 rounds I put through it. Some ejection seemed weak, with the cases sitting neatly on top of the magazine when the slide locked back. Going through and cleaning the gun I found nothing out of the ordinary and by round 175 things seemed to have cleaned up a bit with the failures being more spread apart. When they started happening they were one right after another.

I don't trust the gun for carry yet. I'm hoping it just needs a bit of a break-in period as many other guns of this size do. If it continues through the next 200 rounds I'll be contacting the manufacturer to see what they suggest. The extractor looks like it's getting a good bite on the rim of the rounds I manually fed it and there seems to be plenty of tension so I'm not quite sure what to think of it.

I did find a holster at the gunshop I bought ammo from. Tagua Gunleather makes an IWB holster for the LC9 which fit this little Bersa like it was made for it.

muscogee
01-28-2012, 21:40
How does it compare to the Walther PPS?

High Altitude
01-28-2012, 23:26
You definitely need to clean and oil the gun before shooting. I just bought a BP9cc today at a gunshow. The pistol is full of some type of preservative, but it isn't really a gun oil. It isn't that slick at all.


Here it is.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/myphotos27/bp9cc2.jpg

Basically the same size as the CW9. The CW9 is just alittle bit shorter in the slide and a hair shorter in grip length.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/myphotos27/bp9ccw93.jpg

MinnesnowtaWild
01-29-2012, 01:25
Very cool gun. I would have no problems with buying a Bersa.

J.R. Bob Dobbs
01-29-2012, 09:32
I was just to start another Bersa thread. Glad I saw this one first. I think my question isn't hijacking this thread but I was interested in this Bersa 45

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=270705244#PIC

I too was wondering what others were thinking of this pistol?
I have a thunder 45 and it's great. Haven't shot it much but has never jammed. It's my truck gun.

skud_dusty
01-29-2012, 11:55
I really hope my FTE problems go away as I really like this pistol. It's already made me want to buy slim grips for my 1911! I'm sure if I continue to have problems the manufacturer will take care of me.

USDefender
01-29-2012, 13:19
Basically the same size as the CW9. The CW9 is just alittle bit shorter in the slide and a hair shorter in grip length.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c141/myphotos27/bp9ccw93.jpg


One thing I know is, having owned and really liked examples of both those company's offerings, for what you'll end up spending for each you'll get more gun buying the new Bersa than you will a Kahr CW.

@ Skud: Btw, how does the Bersa break down for field-stripping? Is it difficult or not? One thing I absolutely didn't like about the Kahr when I owned it was the difficulty I had field-stripping it.

skud_dusty
01-29-2012, 13:38
It's super simple. Make sure the pistol is unloaded, reinsert the mag (magazine disconnect) and dry fire. Remove magazine, line up hash marks on slide/frame and pull the slide stop out.

Gokyo
01-29-2012, 13:46
What does the Bersa do that a Kahr doesn't do?

Why not just get a Kahr CW9. At least then you have lots of holsters to choose from and it is made in the USA.

skud_dusty
01-29-2012, 13:49
I don't like Kahr's long reset. My ideal pistol would be a Kahr with a Glock trigger.

USDefender
01-29-2012, 15:34
It's super simple. Make sure the pistol is unloaded, reinsert the mag (magazine disconnect) and dry fire. Remove magazine, line up hash marks on slide/frame and pull the slide stop out.


Cool. Being a fan of 'European' stuff, I don't mind the 'mag disconnect' on guns... In fact, I think it's a good 'safety feature.'

skud_dusty
01-29-2012, 15:58
A lot of people really dislike all the safety features on this pistol, but as long as it doesn't randomly dump a magazine I'm really not too worried. I've never heard of any first or second hand accounts of an internal lock enabling itself so that doesn't present a problem to me. Most of it is done for importation laws, lots of locks makes it easier to get into the country.

High Altitude
01-29-2012, 19:27
What does the Bersa do that a Kahr doesn't do?

Why not just get a Kahr CW9. At least then you have lots of holsters to choose from and it is made in the USA.

The BP9CC is 8+1, CW9 is 7+1. BP9CC magazine holds the top round very secure. The CW9 top round in the magazine is not very secure and at a very steep angle.

BP9CC has a very short reset trigger, CW9 is a long pull DA that requires the trigger to go back all the way out to reset.

BP9CC comes with 2 magazines, CW9 only one.

BP9CC has dovetails for both front and rear sights. According to Bersa the rear dovetail fits glock sights, front dovetail is sig, so there should be a lot of sight options. CW9 is only dovetailed in the rear and very limited to aftermarket sights.

BP9CC costs less, about 40-50 bucks, plus you get 1 extra magazine.

I believe the Bersa's barrel has polygonal rifling, CW9 doesn't.

frank_drebin
01-30-2012, 07:12
My BP9cc started off great and then crapped-the-bed. After about 550 rounds the tooth on the extractor rounded and it stopped extracting any spent casings. I took it back to the shop where I got it and they are sending it back. I wanted to love this gun and even wrote some nice, flattering threads about the gun initially. It has potential but I have read many complaints of extraction problems and the BC folks poopoo any negative talk of this weapon .

unit1069
01-30-2012, 08:47
My BP9cc started off great and then crapped-the-bed. After about 550 rounds the tooth on the extractor rounded and it stopped extracting any spent casings. I took it back to the shop where I got it and they are sending it back. I wanted to love this gun and even wrote some nice, flattering threads about the gun initially. It has potential but I have read many complaints of extraction problems and the BC folks poopoo any negative talk of this weapon .

Thanks for the update, frank. I went to a few gun shops this weekend and was inquiring about the new Bersa. I guess I should wait to find out how Bersa resolves the extractor issue, eh?

High Altitude
01-30-2012, 13:52
My BP9cc started off great and then crapped-the-bed. After about 550 rounds the tooth on the extractor rounded and it stopped extracting any spent casings. I took it back to the shop where I got it and they are sending it back. I wanted to love this gun and even wrote some nice, flattering threads about the gun initially. It has potential but I have read many complaints of extraction problems and the BC folks poopoo any negative talk of this weapon .

Well once the extractor is replaced it would be easy to sell if you don't want it since they are so hard to find.

Did you ever chamber a round through the top/ejection port and drop the slide on it?

So far my only complaint is that the trigger is on the light side. Hopefully I get to the range this week and see how it does. I hope it works out and the pistol is reliable because everything else about the gun is very nice, ergonomics are great.

frank_drebin
01-30-2012, 14:52
Around here they're everywhere. One local shop has them for $339. Most have them for $369. Dealer cost is around $320.

skud_dusty
01-30-2012, 15:19
I never loaded a round into chamber manually, always by using the magazine. I cleaned it well but still plan on buying some polymer safe aerosol solvent to really get into the firing pin channel, trigger bits, and extractor to make sure I get all the gunk out. Today I slowly chambered a few rounds by hand, riding the slide to see where it's hanging up. Chambering is fine, but when the slide is pulled back there is a slight catch just before the round totally ejects. When going slow ejection is positive but weak, when yanking the slide back quickly, like when the pistol is being fired, the round ejects quickly and is shot a foot or so away. I have high hopes for this weekend when I get to shoot it again.

skud_dusty
01-31-2012, 13:19
Well I stripped the slide as far as I could, still not quite sure how to pull the extractor out though. I bought some polymer safe GunScrubber and went to down on the extractor, slide, and frame. Quite a bit of brown garbage came out, almost similar to cosmoline but not as thick. Afterwards I oiled everything like normal and the pistol feeds by hand a lot smoother now. I haven't shot it yet, but extraction seems to be about as good as it was the first 50 rounds. I plan on going out Friday and running another 200 rounds through it. Hopefully the problems have worked themselves out and I'll be back posting a success.

High Altitude
01-31-2012, 14:59
Good luck!

I am going to take mine out this week. I'll let you know how it goes.

travis34769
01-31-2012, 17:54
Huge fan of the Bersa .380. Nice tight well made gun.

win
01-31-2012, 18:33
tag I want to see how it works out

RYT 2BER
01-31-2012, 18:37
My BP9cc started off great and then crapped-the-bed. After about 550 rounds the tooth on the extractor rounded and it stopped extracting any spent casings. I took it back to the shop where I got it and they are sending it back. I wanted to love this gun and even wrote some nice, flattering threads about the gun initially. It has potential but I have read many complaints of extraction problems and the BC folks poopoo any negative talk of this weapon .

Sorry to hear this... I've never owned a bersa but I've always thought they looked interesting, and read positive reviews... hope it works out

frank_drebin
01-31-2012, 19:10
For the record, I'm 100% confident they will make it right. I'm also impressed with this gun's potential
I knew I was getting into unknown territory buying a 1st Gen gun the day they hit our shores. I think/hope future gens will have a fix for the gritty trigger, trigger spring options, cheaper mags and a way to disengage the mag safety.

skud_dusty
02-01-2012, 12:55
I'm attempting to pull the extractor out but I can't quite figured out what's keeping tension on it. It almost looks like the lock on the slide would be but I'm not quite sure how to take it all apart. Info on detail stripping just isn't out there yet.

I also believe that they will make it right if it continues to be a problem. From what I've read Eagle Imports/Bersa really tries to take care of their customers.

smitty704
02-01-2012, 13:29
Thanks for the review. My girl is interested in purchasing her first carry gun, and this is a good option. She read the review and likes the looks of it. Now off to the LGS to see if they have one to look at.


Thanks again.

smitty

High Altitude
02-01-2012, 16:10
Finally got to the range. 100 rounds of FMJ and 2 mags of HP (some old winchester 147g), everything fed, fired and ejected with no malfunctions. I know it isn't a lot of rounds, but I had several other firearms with me.


I only have two very minor issues with the pistol.

The trigger weight is on the light side. Once I started to shoot the gun it really didn't matter like I thought it would. It was like any other pistol, press trigger, it fires, don't press trigger, it doesn't fire............

The magazine release button is sticky, but only if you have a full magazine. I like to load all carry pistols +1 at the range since that is how I carry them and I want to make sure there aren't any issues etc........ This started to get better and better as I was shooting. I feel it will be OK once broken in some more. With an empty magazine it works fine.

For the money, you get a lot of pistol.

elde
02-01-2012, 18:08
I'm actually a big fan of Bersas. On one occasion I had to send my 9UC in for service and the folks at Colorado Gunworks were fast, communicative and very helpful. They are a Bersa factory authorized warranty center.

Colorado Gunworks, 2631 W. Vine Drive, Ft. Collins, CO 80521
Phone: 970-482-4867

Looking forward to a 9cc as my next purchase.

win
02-01-2012, 18:14
I would like my wife to update her PK380 to either a SR9C or this BP9cc.
She does not have the best upper body strength. That what is easy about the pk380. I want her to be able to rack the slide. She does not really like a double stack mag gun. Like my G19.
I does not have a ccw. Although I want to change that someday.
Thanks for the updates and keep us posted

frank_drebin
02-01-2012, 19:39
Finally got to the range. 100 rounds of FMJ and 2 mags of HP (some old winchester 147g), everything fed, fired and ejected with no malfunctions. I know it isn't a lot of rounds, but I had several other firearms with me.


I only have two very minor issues with the pistol.

The trigger weight is on the light side. Once I started to shoot the gun it really didn't matter like I thought it would. It was like any other pistol, press trigger, it fires, don't press trigger, it doesn't fire............

The magazine release button is sticky, but only if you have a full magazine. I like to load all carry pistols +1 at the range since that is how I carry them and I want to make sure there aren't any issues etc........ This started to get better and better as I was shooting. I feel it will be OK once broken in some more. With an empty magazine it works fine.

For the money, you get a lot of pistol.

any accidental double-taps?

High Altitude
02-01-2012, 21:40
any accidental double-taps?

I didn't experience any. It didn't take that long at all to get use to the trigger.

I also didn't have any trigger finger pinch problems that some others have posted about.

I definitely shoot my double stack pistols better, but this pistol is going to be much easier to carry concealed so you have to compromise somewhere with either choice.

I am going to get a variety of ammo and take the BP9CC as well as my Kahr CW9 and really spend some quality time at the range. After, I will probably sell one and keep the other.

skud_dusty
02-03-2012, 15:43
Today I went out and took the little Bersa shooting again. This time I only had a handful of problems, none of which I believe to be the pistol's fault. I was shooting 115gr TulAmmo (I believe the same company as Wolf) and had maybe 10 failure to fires in the 150 rounds that I shot. All of the rounds had a good solid primer strike and when chambered a second time the rounds fired just fine. I had no failures to fire with the Remington, Winchester, Magtech, or American Eagle so I'm fairly certain it's an ammo issue and not a problem with the gun. Next week I plan on buying some brass cased Federal to see if I can replicate the problem, but I don't believe it will have any issues. There was some weak extraction when I wasn't holding the pistol tightly, but it did not cause any failures the cases just didn't eject as far as when I held the pistol in a normal tight grip.

All in all I'm pretty impressed with this pistol and once I pass the 500-1k round mark I think it will become my main carry gun. Even with the cheapest ammo I can find the pistol still shot to point of aim and I was able to hit shogun hulls at 10-12 yards.

unit1069
03-12-2012, 21:40
skud and frank

Do you have more updates on your Bersa BP9CC pistols?

I'm still interested in one but would like to know if there's a new extractor design and if the ammo problems are gone.

skud_dusty
03-13-2012, 03:34
I ended up dumping the Bersa and going back to a Glock 19 for carry. I've read many reports of people having great luck with them, but a handful of others are having similar problems to what I experienced. Everyone that has had problems seem to have hangups with WWB and similar ammo.

GKC1
03-13-2012, 07:12
I had one, and then traded it back where I bought it (they gave me what I paid for it.) The trigger on mine seemed to be MUCH lighter than the advertised 3.5 pounds. It was so light I was uncomfortable carrying it as a CCW pistol. As a target pistol, the trigger would have been perfect....but that wasn't what I was buying it for.

frank_drebin
03-13-2012, 09:05
skud and frank

Do you have more updates on your Bersa BP9CC pistols?

I'm still interested in one but would like to know if there's a new extractor design and if the ammo problems are gone.

I traded mine away when it came back from Bersa. The trigger on mine was gritty and unpredictable.

Hawker Man
03-13-2012, 09:23
So I believe the general consensus from this post is the Bersa leaves a considerable amount to be desired, and you are better off with the not so short comings of the Glock. I have never had a Bersa but from the readings in this post, I'll stick to the Glock platform. The First and the Best.
Tom

High Altitude
03-13-2012, 17:32
So I believe the general consensus from this post is the Bersa leaves a considerable amount to be desired, and you are better off with the not so short comings of the Glock. I have never had a Bersa but from the readings in this post, I'll stick to the Glock platform. The First and the Best.
Tom

I would say at this time no one makes a high quality single stack polymer 9mm that doesn't have something that a vast amount of people don't like.

Ruger LC9 - Long stiff trigger and no options for all the safety stuff.
CW9 - Long DA trigger and I personally find the grip almost too small.
Bersa BP9cc - The trigger is on the light side and isn't that smooth. I completely understand when people say they aren't comfortable carrying a pistol with this light weight of a trigger.
PPS - Lots of people don't like the magazine release and they are expensive.

What the market needs is a M&P or Glock based single stack 9mm.

Simple, high quality, made to service pistol standards, decent price for the pistol and mags with a standard and straight forward battery of arms with a nice trigger/reset etc.......

So far, for me, the Bersa comes the closest. I have put another 100 rounds through it and it is performing great. I am selling my CW9.

unit1069
03-13-2012, 21:08
Thanks for the updates, guys.

All the Bersas I've seen looked like pretty good value pistols and nearly every review I read indicates Bersa owners are very satisfied with the established models.

Too bad the BP9CC is the outlier here. It looked to be a very promising CCW pistol, but unless Bersa gets things corrected I think I'll pass.

skud_dusty
03-14-2012, 12:38
I wouldn't completely count the pistol out, I just think it has a few design flaws that need to be fixed. I myself won't be buying another Bersa product, but when it comes to firearms I tend to really hold a grudge. I wrote off Sig for almost 5 years because of a Mosquito I had terrible luck with.