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Oingo101
01-27-2012, 19:22
Thank you all for your previous input. I ordered some ammo from SGAmmo.com and got it yesterday. My question, is Winchester Ranger T bonded HP same as Winchester Ranger Bondad HP ? Also what is the difference between Regular Winchester Ranger T vs LE ? I also got 100 rds Gold speer 165 gr. I will try both tomorrow in the range and see which one feels better.

Last question is does anyone know if there is a cabin kit for glock ? I already have one for my Colt Delta 10 mm from Magtec. I cannot find one for Glock.

barth
01-27-2012, 19:29
Thank you all for your previous input. I ordered some ammo from SGAmmo.com and got it yesterday. My question, is Winchester Ranger T bonded HP same as Winchester Ranger Bondad HP ? Also what is the difference between Regular Winchester Ranger T vs LE ? I also got 100 rds Gold speer 165 gr. I will try both tomorrow in the range and see which one feels better.

Last question is does anyone know if there is a cabin kit for glock ? I already have one for my Colt Delta 10 mm from Magtec. I cannot find one for Glock.

Holly Molly
Ranger T-Series is LE and it's not bonded.
Ranger Bonded HP is LE too, and it's not T-Series.
Two different LE rounds from Winchester
http://cdn4.gunsforsale.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/5c6e3d4ad9ca995de50d6ebefb3bcec7/4/0/40sw180jhptwinranger-1.jpg
http://static3.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dcf52121e57c42dc65f65486db5f138c/w/i/winchester-40s_w-180gr-bonded-3.jpg

arushus
01-27-2012, 19:29
I could be wrong, but I believe the T series has the talons like the old black talon rounds

Oingo101
01-27-2012, 19:33
So Ranger bonded HP is good rounds for home protection ??

kashdaddy
01-27-2012, 19:35
corbon dpx or federal hst

Chowser
01-27-2012, 19:45
either ranger is good. we issue both to the guys that still carry .40s off duty. our .357sig duty rounds are the ranger t and bonded jhp.

i think (not sure) winchester's new PDX ammo is a bonded t jhp.
i think it's out in 9/40/45. someone told me it just came out in .357, i haven't seen it on the state bid lists yet but i want to get some to try.
i have a dozen cars that need shooting up before they get crushed this summer.

arushus
01-27-2012, 19:51
What is a cabin kit?

barth
01-27-2012, 19:53
either ranger is good. we issue both to the guys that still carry .40s off duty. our .357sig duty rounds are the ranger t and bonded jhp.

i think (not sure) winchester's new PDX ammo is a bonded t jhp.
i think it's out in 9/40/45. someone told me it just came out in .357, i haven't seen it on the state bid lists yet but i want to get some to try.
i have a dozen cars that need shooting up before they get crushed this summer.

I use PDX1 in my 357 Magnum, it's bonded.
http://www.huntingsuppliesoutfitter.com/shop/media/images/product_detail/wincpics357mpdb.jpg

Chowser
01-28-2012, 00:10
I've seen some pics of recovered PDX rounds and it seems like the PDX is a bonded talon round.

The T round expands with the sharp edges and it looks like the PDX has the sharp edges. Next time I get in the summer to go outdoors, I'll fill up another drum with water and shoot some .357 rounds into it. I did it with the .40 years ago before we switched to .357.

KARTMAN90
01-28-2012, 00:15
.45 ACP PDX1 shot out of G21


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Chowser
01-28-2012, 00:46
here, these are from 2007.
.40S&W rounds

Winchester Black Talon 180gr.
Winchester Ranger T (SXT) 180 gr.
Federal HST 165 gr.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5298/expanded1gj6.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5058/expanded0hr7.jpg


it looks like the "talons" from the Black Talon carried over to the Ranger T and the PDX. I'll try to do this with PDX once I get around to buying some unless others beat me to it. We stock Ranger T or Bonded JHP in 380/9mm/40/45. We stock Ranger T and Bonded JHP in .357SIG.

xtremetj
01-28-2012, 09:33
I was interested in the Winchester ammo and found the website below. I shoot a 357 Sig and after comparing it to the 9mm Winchester rounds, I don't what I'll do. For now, I'm sticking with HST (if I can ever find some) or Gold dot.

http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

Oingo101
01-28-2012, 10:58
What is a cabin kit?

CCU (Carbine Conversion Kit). This is an upper for an autoloading pistol. I found one made by MechTech. See attached link:

http://www.mechtechsys.com/what_is.php

Gperfection
01-28-2012, 11:13
Holly Molly
Ranger T-Series is LE and it's not bonded.
Ranger Bonded HP is LE too, and it's not T-Series.
Two different LE rounds from Winchester
http://cdn4.gunsforsale.com/media/catalog/product/cache/3/image/5c6e3d4ad9ca995de50d6ebefb3bcec7/4/0/40sw180jhptwinranger-1.jpg
http://static3.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/dcf52121e57c42dc65f65486db5f138c/w/i/winchester-40s_w-180gr-bonded-3.jpg
Are you sure the "T" series bullets are not bonded? They sure seem to hold all of their weight when fired into water. I tested some of the RA45T .45 Ranger T 230gr. rounds and both bullets weighed in @230.2 grs.. No separation at all. Both of them expanded to just over 1 inch also. It's what I carry in my .45's. Bonded or not, awesome performance in my opinion.

barth
01-28-2012, 13:24
Are you sure the "T" series bullets are not bonded? They sure seem to hold all of their weight when fired into water. I tested some of the RA45T .45 Ranger T 230gr. rounds and both bullets weighed in @230.2 grs.. No separation at all. Both of them expanded to just over 1 inch also. It's what I carry in my .45's. Bonded or not, awesome performance in my opinion.

Yes I'm sure, not bonded.
I carry Ranger Ts myself.
Most consider them better than the Ranger Bonded.
The bonding process deals with jacket core separation that
takes place when penetrating light barriers i.e. car doors or windshields.
My understanding is that the non bonded Ranger T actually expands better than the bonded bullet when not penetrating barriers.

The Ranger T will penetrate doors/glass but may fragment in the process.

I'm not an ammo expert or distributor.
But I did spend last night at a Holiday Inn Express!
http://www.visitbn.org/member_photos/holiday-inn-express-hotel-&-suites-logo.jpg

Chowser
01-28-2012, 15:56
The Ranger T will penetrate doors/glass but may fragment in the process.


this is what we noticed from our unscientific tests of the ranger t and the ranger bonded from what rounds we recovered. that's why we issue both the ranger t and the bonded jhp. we stagger the rounds in our mags. bad guys will get at least one of each round. minimum.

no real world test with the .357sig yet except on deer.

we didn't like the .40 performance on humans, hence we were switching to .45, but the city didn't want to buy new holsters, so i switched us to .357SIG. Little did they know the ammo costs a wee bit more...

but it saved me lots of money! i no longer had to supply my own training ammo for all my .357SIG guns.
:tongueout:

cowboy1964
01-28-2012, 16:01
What was the problem with .40 "on humans"? You had actual shooting incidents and blamed the .40 with failures to stop? What kind of .40 ammo are we talking about in these cases?

barth
01-28-2012, 16:19
What was the problem with .40 "on humans"? You had actual shooting incidents and blamed the .40 with failures to stop? What kind of .40 ammo are we talking about in these cases?

I was typing the same thing.
Was under the impression some agencies were moving away from 40 in 180gr in general.

Thought 40 with 155/165 Winchester Ranger T, Speer GDHP and Federal HST; was fine?

My G27 can run 40/357 Sig or 9mm.
Have been running -
Winchester Ranger T +P+ 127 in 9mm
Winchester Ranger T 165 in 40
Winchester Ranger T 125 in 357 Sig
and in my P220
Winchester Ranger T 230 in 45

frontier2011
01-28-2012, 16:23
These leo agencies switch weapons every couple of years. They dont care, its not their money. Local agency here just
spent $2 million to 'upgrade' their tasers. What a crock.

Chowser
01-28-2012, 19:05
we didn't really blame the .40s. the range guys at the time did because they wanted to switch to .45s, but the chief didn't want to spend money on new holsters and mag pouches. i was tired of feeding my .357sig habit (i had four guns in .357 at the time, i've got 3 more now) and suggested it to the chief as a joke because we could keep the same holsters and mag pouches. He asked what research did I do on the .357. I just blurted it, SS uses it to protect the POTUS. He said, good enough, make it happen.
so we switched to Glock 31s.

the old range/firearms guys were upset with me over that, but they grew to like the .357. The chief was happy, he started there with a .357 magnum as the issued weapon and he retired with a .357 weapon.

anyways, our two incidents which caused the range guys to want the change were one lady, not drunk, no drugs in system, just crazy, took 8 rounds center mass (four in the front, two to left side, two to right side, we had her pretty much surrounded) and was still able to finish reloading her shotgun and getting another shot off.
another guy took a round that glanced off his skull. sat in the e.r. for awhile, then did 3 years for armed robbery and just got back out.

months later when we finally got the coroner's report from the lady, i figured out what went wrong, but since we had switched to .357, i didn't bother telling the old timers. the problem (which we don't have anymore since i took over firearms/range) was the ammo they were using were VERY VERY old original issue Black Talons that were stored in a humid closet and the ammo sat in their S&W 4046s for years then they moved them over to our Glock 22s which sat in their mags for another 10 years. When I started, we were issuing Winchester Ranger in 180gr. JHP, then we switched to Federal HST in 165 and 180 gr. But all the old timers kept their black talons and wanted to use it.

Now, we issue Ranger T and Bonded JHP in .357SIG.
Each year, I make my guys shoot out their current duty ammo and replace it with new ammo. No point in keeping ammo forever that gets rained on, snowed on, etc. It's not like the ammo budget is going to break the city. That's what the community center is for. it operates at a 750k/yr loss.

I do the same at home, I shoot the JHPs out once a year and replace it. Just to run ammo through the mags to make sure they work. Glad I did this recently because my two year old Glock 33 mag failed on me. Replaced it with a new spring and all was good.

I still have 9mm,.40S&W,.45ACP, and .357SIG guns at home. (Only those calibers because the city gives us ammo for our home guns as well).
The city stopped letting us have .38,.357mag,.380,10mm years ago.
we're limited to 9/40/45/357 only.

on days i go out with just my kahr cm9 in 9mm, i don't feel under gunned.
a SIG P239 in .40 is my wife's bedside gun, my bedside gun is a HK P2000 in .357.

i'm about to buy two gen4 Glock 32s to make bedside guns and sticking some TLR-3s on them. Wife finally decided she wanted a Glock and said make it the same as mine so mags are compatible. I wanted to get her a gen4 19, but she said no, make it the same. so now i still have to figure out how to add a gen4 19 to the collection...
:rofl:

our city doesn't change weapons that often, we had the 4046s for around 10 years and we had the 22s for 9 years. we only decided to change that year because they were selling our old tommy guns to the glock l.e. dealer and we had to spend that money on stuff as fast as we could before the city decided to try and take the money and add it to the general fund.
we've had the Glock 31s since 2008. I plan on retiring around 2023 +5 or +8 and I expect we will still have the same Glock 31s. I am trying to get our l.e. dealer to let me trade in 4 gen3 31s for 4 gen4 31s so I can try out the gen4 in 31 size.

barth
01-29-2012, 06:44
we didn't really blame the .40s. the range guys at the time did because they wanted to switch to .45s, but the chief didn't want to spend money on new holsters and mag pouches. i was tired of feeding my .357sig habit (i had four guns in .357 at the time, i've got 3 more now) and suggested it to the chief as a joke because we could keep the same holsters and mag pouches. He asked what research did I do on the .357. I just blurted it, SS uses it to protect the POTUS. He said, good enough, make it happen.
so we switched to Glock 31s.

the old range/firearms guys were upset with me over that, but they grew to like the .357. The chief was happy, he started there with a .357 magnum as the issued weapon and he retired with a .357 weapon.

anyways, our two incidents which caused the range guys to want the change were one lady, not drunk, no drugs in system, just crazy, took 8 rounds center mass (four in the front, two to left side, two to right side, we had her pretty much surrounded) and was still able to finish reloading her shotgun and getting another shot off.
another guy took a round that glanced off his skull. sat in the e.r. for awhile, then did 3 years for armed robbery and just got back out.

months later when we finally got the coroner's report from the lady, i figured out what went wrong, but since we had switched to .357, i didn't bother telling the old timers. the problem (which we don't have anymore since i took over firearms/range) was the ammo they were using were VERY VERY old original issue Black Talons that were stored in a humid closet and the ammo sat in their S&W 4046s for years then they moved them over to our Glock 22s which sat in their mags for another 10 years. When I started, we were issuing Winchester Ranger in 180gr. JHP, then we switched to Federal HST in 165 and 180 gr. But all the old timers kept their black talons and wanted to use it.

Now, we issue Ranger T and Bonded JHP in .357SIG.
Each year, I make my guys shoot out their current duty ammo and replace it with new ammo. No point in keeping ammo forever that gets rained on, snowed on, etc. It's not like the ammo budget is going to break the city. That's what the community center is for. it operates at a 750k/yr loss.

I do the same at home, I shoot the JHPs out once a year and replace it. Just to run ammo through the mags to make sure they work. Glad I did this recently because my two year old Glock 33 mag failed on me. Replaced it with a new spring and all was good.

I still have 9mm,.40S&W,.45ACP, and .357SIG guns at home. (Only those calibers because the city gives us ammo for our home guns as well).
The city stopped letting us have .38,.357mag,.380,10mm years ago.
we're limited to 9/40/45/357 only.

on days i go out with just my kahr cm9 in 9mm, i don't feel under gunned.
a SIG P239 in .40 is my wife's bedside gun, my bedside gun is a HK P2000 in .357.

i'm about to buy two gen4 Glock 32s to make bedside guns and sticking some TLR-3s on them. Wife finally decided she wanted a Glock and said make it the same as mine so mags are compatible. I wanted to get her a gen4 19, but she said no, make it the same. so now i still have to figure out how to add a gen4 19 to the collection...
:rofl:

our city doesn't change weapons that often, we had the 4046s for around 10 years and we had the 22s for 9 years. we only decided to change that year because they were selling our old tommy guns to the glock l.e. dealer and we had to spend that money on stuff as fast as we could before the city decided to try and take the money and add it to the general fund.
we've had the Glock 31s since 2008. I plan on retiring around 2023 +5 or +8 and I expect we will still have the same Glock 31s. I am trying to get our l.e. dealer to let me trade in 4 gen3 31s for 4 gen4 31s so I can try out the gen4 in 31 size.

Thanks much for the detailed and honest reply.
Some people seem to get twitchy and personal when you talk caliber/ammo.
Hard to get real quality info you can depend on these days.

thanks again and be safe

Oingo101
01-29-2012, 22:30
Thank you gys for your honest input. Bottom line, any good name barand ammo such as winchester , Fereral Premium or Gold Dot will work for home protection if you know how to shoot it straight.

I tried both winchester Ranger bonded and Gold Speer today on my new Glock 23 and both works fine. I felt less kick on Gold Dot.... How many rounds you need to shoot on a new gun before your mussel memory knows exactly what to do in the event of emergency ?