Meanwhile, as rome burns . . . [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Morris
01-27-2012, 20:06
The city is financially struggling and yet they have time to quibble over this?

http://www.kxly.com/news/30310393/detail.html

bccop
01-27-2012, 22:02
Wow, new uniforms and putting "serve and protect" on the cars.


A google search discovered the current strength of the Spokane Police Department is 290 and is under strength which would suggest budget problems. The same article mentioned the Property Crime Unit is being disbanded which means only 5% of property crimes being investigated.

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/oct/06/property-crimes-unit-disbands/

Initial start up costs of new uniforms would be about $140,000 if each officer gets 4. Obviously this doesn't take into account dry cleaning or replacement costs. Great way to spend money in times of fiscal restraint....

Sharky7
01-27-2012, 22:09
How do guys go to the bathroom in those one piece jumpsuits? Don't you have to take off your duty belt just to hit the little policeman's room for a number 1?

Morris
01-27-2012, 22:52
Think strip tease and yer getting close.

Seriously, just zip up from the bottom and you are swinging free. No guarantee you'll hit the target, as my lovely wife sometimes reminds me . . .

Sharky7
01-27-2012, 23:05
Makes sense now.....Was thinking you could only unzip from the top.

Cochese
01-28-2012, 04:45
OMFG, that "former" (fired for being a doosh?) detective is a complete tool.

Really? REALLY? You want to see them go BACK to wool?

Its a ****ing uniform, *******. It serves a purpose. God I want to call him at home at 0345 and tell him to STFU.

Black Smoke Trail
01-28-2012, 06:12
The city is financially struggling and yet they have time to quibble over this?

http://www.kxly.com/news/30310393/detail.html

Very understandable. The police are civilian public servants. Wearing a duty uniform that is consistent with identifying them as such is very logical and presents a positive civilian service image.

The "one piece jump suits" are devired from military Nomex flight suits who's primary purpose was burn prevention in the event of a fire while involved in avaiation, armor, or special operations mission related activities. Even the military frowns upon and discourages the wear of these flight suits uniforms off post unless required for reasons duty related reasons as well as being worn in on post establishments.

"One piece jumps suits" worn by other than special operations type personnel directly involved in immediate mission related activities presents a militarized as well as an image that is in direct contravention to that of a peace officer & civilian public servant .

Even more to the point, wearing military or para-military type uniforms with blouse boots as opposed to a traditional civilian type police uniform with low quarter leather or Corfram shoes presents a similar if not nearly identical image that is not conducive to a positive public image, welcoming stature, or militarized presence.

I strongly agree that "one piece jump suits" and military/paramilitary style uniforms ARE much more comfortable, easy to maintain, and less expensive overall in long term upkeep.

The extra cost of civilian type uniforms in my opinion much more than pay for themselves by aiding/supporting facilitation of a very professional and positive civilian public image and face to the public.

If the wear of "one piece jumps suits" or military type uniforms is an important issue, sign up for the active duty military and be the real thing. You will even get the opportunity to wear about 40 lbs. of the latest high tech body armor along with those uniforms. Even the military police are not permitted to wear "one piece jump suits" as a regular duty uniform and only for special operations duty and for good reason.........the chain of command wants uniformity and a coordinated, professional, positive image in the ranks as well as those wearing that uniform to be a team that is proud and dignified in and while wearing it.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 06:20
Blah, blah, blah. I hate the police. Blah, Blah, Blah.

Okay, so don't care how much a department spends on uniforms as long as they look professional.

If I wear my class As I will be wearing $1000 before I even put on my gunbelt or vest. We should go with a clarino gunbelt too. Don't mind the cost. It looks polished and professional.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 06:28
This article reminds me of my hometown sheriff. He was indicted and convicted for wire fraud by the feds. The new chief thought the best way to up the image of the department was to go from the traditional green and tan to all black. It is 100+ most of the summer out there. Way to send morale into the ****ter.

If you have bad PR or morale bottom line changing uniforms or slogans on the car isn't going to cut it. Our old chief used to have "your police, our community" on the patrol cars but only about 20% of the guys lived in town because it was too expensive to live there.

Black Smoke Trail
01-28-2012, 06:45
Okay, so don't care how much a department spends on uniforms as long as they look professional.

If I wear my class As I will be wearing $1000 before I even put on my gunbelt or vest. We should go with a clarino gunbelt too. Don't mind the cost. It looks polished and professional.

A $1,000 for a civilian duty uniform......REALLY???? My military dress blue and mess blue uniforms with tailoring, shoulder loops, and medals did not cost that much. With your cost management skills, perhaps you would be better employed on president Obama's personal staff? And I thought the DOD spending $600 on toilet seats was bad. :upeyes:

CJStudent
01-28-2012, 08:50
A $1,000 for a civilian duty uniform......REALLY???? My military dress blue and mess blue uniforms with tailoring, shoulder loops, and medals did not cost that much. With your cost management skills, perhaps you would be better employed on president Obama's personal staff? And I thought the DOD spending $600 on toilet seats was bad. :upeyes:

You really have no idea how much good LE uniforms are, do you? It's VERY easy for a halfway decent Class-A uniform to run over $100 just for the shirt and pants. Add in ties, pants belt, shoes/boots, duty gear, vest, and $1000 actually is fairly conservative.

Hack
01-28-2012, 08:54
Many agencies, (including mine), allow uniform polo shirts, with emblem on the shirt. It works very well for Las Vegas if you want to see a good example, with the exception that the emblem is a representation of the badge, verses ours being a representation of the agency seal. Cotton polyester trousers that keep a crease; a decent uniform shirt; tie if deemed necessary; and a ball cap with the agency seal on it, or badge pattern, will more than accomplish the non intimidating yet comfortable uniform image. In addition they could have a white uniform shirt for dress along with an appropriate color of blazer to wear for Class A events. Use a badge on the oxford uniform shirt and the blazer, and a pair of corframs, emblem on a polo and boots for Class B wear.

bikerdog
01-28-2012, 09:20
It saddens me to see this. My dept. Works closely with Spokane pd. Spokane is facing some major issues but overall they have some great cops trying to do a good job. But you have all the brass and politicians focusing on this nonsense. It's been a long road for them and it looks like that wont be changing this year.
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collim1
01-28-2012, 09:50
I wear a Class A 100% of the time, but its my choice.

I dont think uniforms are the solution to this problem. Gradually phasing the "jump suits" out as they need replacement is a more realistic and less knee jerk approach.

merlynusn
01-28-2012, 10:48
Black Smoke, Do you have any idea what a normal police uniform looks like? It's the exact same as a military uniform. Heck, I think some of my police uniforms were even made by the same company. I wear good sturdy boots instead of low quarter shoes when I patrol. Why? Because they are sturdy, don't soak up the water, and protect my ankles. To have cops wear Corframs are absolutely stupid, for many many reasons. Whoever said that cops blouse their boots? Only whackers do that. I've seen a couple cops do it and they are a laughing stock.

One piece jumpsuits.... Would I buy them? No, I think they look stupid. But that isn't the issue. They ALREADY have them. I agree with Collim, phase out the jump suits as they come due to replacement. Give them a normal police uniform that is poly/cotton as opposed to a wool one.

No one in the military wears one piece jumpsuits except aviators and I think tank people. Everyone else is wearing BDUs. Even the Navy got rid of their jumpsuits for use on the ship and went to BDUs. The jumpsuits are not military in nature at all.

trdvet
01-28-2012, 11:02
People will always hate the police and think they are a bunch of JBTs no matter what uniform they wear. The person makes the uniform, the uniform does not make the person.

Cochese
01-28-2012, 11:26
Very understandable. The police are civilian public servants. Wearing a duty uniform that is consistent with identifying them as such is very logical and presents a positive civilian service image.

The "one piece jump suits" are devired from military Nomex flight suits who's primary purpose was burn prevention in the event of a fire while involved in avaiation, armor, or special operations mission related activities. Even the military frowns upon and discourages the wear of these flight suits uniforms off post unless required for reasons duty related reasons as well as being worn in on post establishments.

"One piece jumps suits" worn by other than special operations type personnel directly involved in immediate mission related activities presents a militarized as well as an image that is in direct contravention to that of a peace officer & civilian public servant .

Even more to the point, wearing military or para-military type uniforms with blouse boots as opposed to a traditional civilian type police uniform with low quarter leather or Corfram shoes presents a similar if not nearly identical image that is not conducive to a positive public image, welcoming stature, or militarized presence.

I strongly agree that "one piece jump suits" and military/paramilitary style uniforms ARE much more comfortable, easy to maintain, and less expensive overall in long term upkeep.

The extra cost of civilian type uniforms in my opinion much more than pay for themselves by aiding/supporting facilitation of a very professional and positive civilian public image and face to the public.

If the wear of "one piece jumps suits" or military type uniforms is an important issue, sign up for the active duty military and be the real thing. You will even get the opportunity to wear about 40 lbs. of the latest high tech body armor along with those uniforms. Even the military police are not permitted to wear "one piece jump suits" as a regular duty uniform and only for special operations duty and for good reason.........the chain of command wants uniformity and a coordinated, professional, positive image in the ranks as well as those wearing that uniform to be a team that is proud and dignified in and while wearing it.

Thanks for further confirmation of your complete ignorance on the subject of anything LE related.

I think I'm gonna head to your tractor forum and register so I can hand out my worthless opinion to everyone. :wavey:

Panzergrenadier1979
01-28-2012, 12:34
Very understandable. The police are civilian public servants. Wearing a duty uniform that is consistent with identifying them as such is very logical and presents a positive civilian service image.

The "one piece jump suits" are devired from military Nomex flight suits who's primary purpose was burn prevention in the event of a fire while involved in avaiation, armor, or special operations mission related activities. Even the military frowns upon and discourages the wear of these flight suits uniforms off post unless required for reasons duty related reasons as well as being worn in on post establishments.

"One piece jumps suits" worn by other than special operations type personnel directly involved in immediate mission related activities presents a militarized as well as an image that is in direct contravention to that of a peace officer & civilian public servant .

Even more to the point, wearing military or para-military type uniforms with blouse boots as opposed to a traditional civilian type police uniform with low quarter leather or Corfram shoes presents a similar if not nearly identical image that is not conducive to a positive public image, welcoming stature, or militarized presence.

I strongly agree that "one piece jump suits" and military/paramilitary style uniforms ARE much more comfortable, easy to maintain, and less expensive overall in long term upkeep.

The extra cost of civilian type uniforms in my opinion much more than pay for themselves by aiding/supporting facilitation of a very professional and positive civilian public image and face to the public.

If the wear of "one piece jumps suits" or military type uniforms is an important issue, sign up for the active duty military and be the real thing. You will even get the opportunity to wear about 40 lbs. of the latest high tech body armor along with those uniforms. Even the military police are not permitted to wear "one piece jump suits" as a regular duty uniform and only for special operations duty and for good reason.........the chain of command wants uniformity and a coordinated, professional, positive image in the ranks as well as those wearing that uniform to be a team that is proud and dignified in and while wearing it.

Really?

You have enough heartburn over this that you feel it is your place to interrupt a conversation between law enforcement professionals who are discussing an item of common interest?

Corfram shoes.....for patrol.....?! :shocked: How much thought did you put into that little gem before hitting "submit"?

Do me a favor, go to odmp.org and read some of the reflections left by family, friends, and colleagues of this nations fallen law enforcement officers. The children and spouses of these "civilian" "public servants" probably don't care what you think their deceased officer/deputy/trooper/agent's uniform looked like. They still did their job, they're still dead, and their fellow officers still go to work each day to serve folks like you.

DaBigBR
01-28-2012, 13:15
Blah, blah, blah. I hate the police. Blah, Blah, Blah.

It would appear that somebody here's "one piece jumpsuit and pictures a flight suit. Perhaps somebody should investigate the 100% custom cut jumpsuits made by the likes of Bratwear before opining...

wprebeck
01-28-2012, 14:17
It would appear that somebody here's "one piece jumpsuit and pictures a flight suit. Perhaps somebody should investigate the 100% custom cut jumpsuits made by the likes of Bratwear before opining...

It appears that someone is a ****ing idiot who has a history of lying about tthings to make LE look bad. Cochese and I both played around online, and found some neat stuff.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 15:49
A $1,000 for a civilian duty uniform......REALLY???? My military dress blue and mess blue uniforms with tailoring, shoulder loops, and medals did not cost that much. With your cost management skills, perhaps you would be better employed on president Obama's personal staff? And I thought the DOD spending $600 on toilet seats was bad. :upeyes:

That's the cost of doing business in wool LAPD spec clothes. Especially when wearing an Ike jacket and hat. When was the last time you bought a wool hat and wool coat? Wait until you hear how expensive motor boots are. We stopped issuing leather jackets to motors.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 15:59
http://history.amedd.army.mil/ancwebsite/uniformpres_files/images/classA70s2000/GrnServUnif-3.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3058/2527888049_5e1ffcb783.jpg

Only real difference is the colors and gunbelt.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 16:03
Oh, and the 5.11 pants we use as riot control/special detail pants were created for rock climbing. The shirt was created specifically for LE.

As for the one piece jumpsuit, mechanics wear those. CHP commercial enforcement are about the only police in CA that wear them. I think they can wear them in snow zones in the winter.

CAcop
01-28-2012, 16:09
http://www.sierrasun.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=SS&Date=20110412&Category=COMMUNITY&ArtNo=110419975&Ref=AR&maxw=300&MaxH=300

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/dv485035.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=EDF6F2F4F969CEBD94C33940456E4E58A5B3CEE6BB599411FD0CD5FB0EDF9BFB

Oh, noes. The mechanicization of the police.

trdvet
01-28-2012, 17:27
Wait until you hear how expensive motor boots are. We stopped issuing leather jackets to motors.

400 bucks for off the shelf, 600-800+ for a custom fit. Leather motor jacket is also several hundred dollars. It makes them LOOK LIKE TANKERS OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:supergrin:

Morris
01-28-2012, 20:26
If the wear of "one piece jumps suits" or military type uniforms is an important issue, sign up for the active duty military and be the real thing. You will even get the opportunity to wear about 40 lbs. of the latest high tech body armor along with those uniforms.

I did, for 10 years. Next.

Corfram shoes

As you would PRESUMABLY know, they last about 10 seconds in that condition in real world conditions. They suck donkey wankers for long term wear, especially in the field. Better yet, ask a certain state trooper up here what he thought of them when he was damn near burned to death and his shiny shoes melted to his feet.

The point on this is not whether it's jumpsuits or not, it is that that the city council in Spokane worries about a look versus even having enough cash to keep from defaulting or going into municipal bankruptcy. The council has better things to focus on rather than the look of a uniform. They had best be sure they even have a functioning city, let alone a police department. Beyond that, since they are so short on funding, how do they propose even having the funding to start this nonsense? The reason why so many agencies and cities went to jumpsuits is because they got a better return on the bucks spent. Less uniform costs, almost nil for cleaning costs as it was borne by the officer (wash and wear).

jpa
01-29-2012, 02:48
400 bucks for off the shelf, 600-800+ for a custom fit. Leather motor jacket is also several hundred dollars. It makes them LOOK LIKE TANKERS OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:supergrin:

So it's the Tankerization of the policees? :rofl:

I dunno, I think old fashioned might be the way to go....

http://www.policeny.com/images/ATJ%20early%20uniforms%202%20%28Custom%29.jpg

CAcop
01-29-2012, 06:29
So it's the Tankerization of the policees? :rofl:

I dunno, I think old fashioned might be the way to go....

http://www.policeny.com/images/ATJ%20early%20uniforms%202%20%28Custom%29.jpg

http://www.maps-charts.com/images/121.01%20Civil%20War%20-%20uniforms%20%201891.jpg

Damn. The Man has been putting cops in military style unifroms for years.

Morris
01-29-2012, 07:15
I'm keen on the bowler hat myself.

lwt210
01-29-2012, 08:07
After years of reduced or no uniform allowances at all, I'd be happy with any new uniforms.

I lost quite a bit of weight a few years back and traded in some that were too big for some that fit. They are probably 10 years old. I have two shirts and two pair of pants that fit.

Word has it we are getting 300 this year for uniforms......that will get me two more shirts and pants.....and maybe a cheap set of boots.

This customer service/image thing is silly. When off duty, I am a civilian too as some love to point out. And if bad guys are cruising my hood looking to make someone a victim.......

I don't give a durn what the cop that patrols my hood is wearing. I want him or her to be comfortable and in good spirits with high morale, so that he/she is hunting for that bad guy. Hunting hard. Hunting ruthless.

The romantic in me hopes to hear a story one day of a chief telling a tale of wanting his/her staff to be like that. Focused on crime and ridding as much of it as possible.

And not caring if the uniform looks a certain way or not. Too militaristic? Gimme a break.

Reminds me of a story one of our arsenal cops told me the other day. They had complaints, from arsenal civilian DOD personnel, that the cops shouldn't be allowed to eat in the cafeteria with their sidearms visible. It makes them "uncomfortalbe". Unappetizing, so to speak.

On a missle arsenal. Nevermind the missles we are designing, testing, building....weapons of war and destruction.

Let's worry about that Beretta 9mm at the table next to us.

Unreal what pansies we as a nation have become.

ateamer
01-29-2012, 13:54
The fact that it is a uniform of any sort is military-like - period. Uniforms originated with militaries, and law enforcement uniforms derived from them.

Do members of the military wear office dress uniforms when out in the field?



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steveksux
01-29-2012, 14:14
“Common sense to me would say I would have a better time dealing with somebody that was in a blue police officer uniform rather than the black jumpsuit, utility belt, gun, tasers, I mean to me that would be a bit intimidating,” Fagan said.Hmmm... I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the intimidating part for most people would be the utility belt, gun and taser. I don't think changing the jumpsuit alone is going to change that.

http://www.halloween24.com/images/shop/product_images/46989/19901-police-jumpsuit--adult.jpg


Randy

CW Mock
01-29-2012, 16:32
I don't either. Just having to carry the stuff everywhere is what probably "intimidates" most people.

Aren't some of those jumpsuits made to resemble a Class A (the pockets, seams, etc)? What would be wrong with giving guys something that "looks" traditional/friendly, and lasts longer?

Cops wore wool and low quarters in 1955 because that's what they had. Military non-utility uniforms were the same. It's not 1955 anymore in more ways than the materials used in clothing.

blueiron
01-29-2012, 16:56
I wore wool uniforms and clarino belt gear at the academy where a professional appearance was critical. Same for PR details, funerals, city hall details, etc.

In the field, it was utility shirts/cargo trousers, nylon belt gear, and a baseball cap.

As others have pointed out, it isn't 1955 any more and society has become more casual in dress. The cops have as well. When was the last time you bought a felt fedora and a wool topcoat to go to church or the office?

blueiron
01-29-2012, 16:58
I'm keen on the bowler hat myself.


I'd sign up again to wear an Admiral's hat and a boat cloak for one year! :supergrin:

Hack
01-30-2012, 00:37
http://www.maps-charts.com/images/121.01%20Civil%20War%20-%20uniforms%20%201891.jpg

Damn. The Man has been putting cops in military style unifroms for years.

True dat. Corrections included in some places. When I got on with MODOC there was not a whole lot of difference between my Army class B, and my MO uniform, except the Army class B was much better quality when I first got on.

Hack
01-30-2012, 00:40
The fact that it is a uniform of any sort is military-like - period. Uniforms originated with militaries, and law enforcement uniforms derived from them.

Do members of the military wear office dress uniforms when out in the field?



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Only rear echelon used to do it in the US Army. Not even them any longer. It is all ACU unless they finally changed policy again.

Hack
01-30-2012, 00:50
When was the last time you bought a felt fedora and a wool topcoat to go to church or the office?

1980's and it was beaver felt for the fedora.

1990's moved to a crushable fedora, and still have a trench coat.

2010 and onward: fugeddaboutit. The church I have been with for about fifteen years went mostly casual about 8-10 years ago. I have one suit that I use for funerals, weddings, and court appearances. There are some church and synagogues that require, no jeans, semi casual of those who regularly attend, with the exception of those who minister to the homeless, and so on.

It seems a lot of churches have gone that way, with the exception of some formal occasions such as weddings. Even funerals are less dressy for a lot of participants any more. Midwestern society in a lot of regards, with the exception of some who go to some night clubs, and other entertainment and restaurant establishments that require semi formal dress at the minimum have decreased in favour of establishments that have gone for the more casual look.