Blind people and guns. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Angry Fist
01-29-2012, 10:20
I have a neighbor who is ~90% blind, and wants to own a pistol. He can play cards, and track people moving about the room and such, but is legally blind. He is a responsible person otherwise, and wants something handy in case of anything bad happening. His elderly mother and toy daschund are there, but he still insists on owning a gun. What say ye?

HandyMan Hugh
01-29-2012, 10:37
As long as he can see well enough to discern what is or is not a proper target, YES! He may well be able to do that by watching movement and hearing what a possible assailant is saying. If he can learn to do point and shoot at close range, why not?

WiskyT
01-29-2012, 10:38
He'd be a better shot than most of the people who post gun reviews with targets at 7 yards.

Misty02
01-29-2012, 10:41
If he can distinguish the markings in the cards to play, I have little doubt he’ll have any problems distinguishing a home intruder from his elderly mother, even less problem with the toy dachshund.

Why not take him to the range and let him try yours? You mention he is a responsible person; most responsible people understand and work around their own limitations to achieve their goals. He may even be able to locate a professional trainer that teaches him special techniques that would assist with his limitations?

.

bigleaf
01-29-2012, 10:42
Might I suggest a 20 gauge shotgun? Less travel and penetration than a pistol round, and really easy to align for aiming, too.

1gewehr
01-29-2012, 11:07
It's his choice, not yours. If he believes that he is capable of discerning between an intruder and a family member, then it's his responsibility to make that choicer himself.

It's the same choice each of makes for ourselves. I wear glasses. Does that mean that I should not have a firearm near the bed for self-defense? No. I believe that I can see well enough to discern the difference between ad home invader and a family member, even without my glasses. I suspect your friend feels the same way.

MadMonkey
01-29-2012, 11:14
I just re-read the 2nd Amendment. Can't believe I missed that part about blind people being excluded from the right to bear arms.

jr05
01-29-2012, 11:18
he can play cards but is 90% blind? Are the cards in braille?

If he can discern who is who at a distance (not just track blobs) I would say yes, no worries.

TN.Frank
01-29-2012, 11:35
This would be one of the few times when I'd actually recommend one of the "Shotgun Revolvers" like the Judge. With a multi ball load of 000 buck he'll have a better chance of hitting his target in a vital spot and if he can get up close and personal even a shot load would do enough damage to take care of an attacker.
I read an article many years ago in Guns and Ammo about self defense for folks that were totally blind using a handgun. The Author recommended a M29 S&W loaded with blanks for touch shooting. A blank ctg. will do quite a bit of damage if you press the muzzle into the target(remember Brandon Lee, RIP) and there's no projectile to go astray and harm an innocent.

2bgop
01-29-2012, 11:42
If he wants a firearm, all he has to do it buy one.

10mm Sonny
01-29-2012, 12:06
I have a neighbor who is ~90% blind, ... he still insists on owning a gun.

He's qualified to be a Stromtrooper / bad guy.

http://chzsetphaserstolol.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/sci-fi-fantasy-inconsistent-stormtrooper.jpg

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/bgthq2_8924.jpg

M2 Carbine
01-29-2012, 12:14
Dp..........

esh325
01-29-2012, 12:15
Margolin was 100% blind and he designed a pistol. As for your buddy, take him to the range and see how he does.
http://toyfj40.freeshell.org/GunPix/MargolinC.jpg

Darkangel1846
01-29-2012, 12:24
Its the USA, he can own whatever he wants, although I would suggest to him that some practice might be worthwhile

M2 Carbine
01-29-2012, 12:24
Last month a local gunsmith was showing me pictures of a friend that shoots and hunts.

At first the GS didn't tell me the man was blind. Then on a picture of the man beside an Elephant he shot, I could see his eyes looked a little strange.
I asked about the man's eyes. The GS said "He's blind". Then he showed me more amazing pictures of the man hunting and shooting.

Just how blind?, I didn't ask but carrying a White Cane blind.



This isn't exactly the same thing but it's surprising how well you can shoot with your eyes closed.
I passed (for just practice) the Texas concealed carry shooting qualification with my eyes closed.

Just for the heck of it I sometimes shoot with my eyes closed.

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/eyesclosedJFrame7yards.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/CZ40P10ydseyesclosed.jpg


"Shoot out" with a BG with my eyes closed. I missed the BG three times.
So, I suspect if a person can see at all they could learn to be competent with firearms.
Oh, and in Texas I believe I heard that blind people can hunt and get their CHL.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Taurus7yardseyesclosed.jpg

Paul53
01-29-2012, 12:27
They have braille on the drive up ATM at my bank. If they let blind people drive, why not let them shoot?

smokeross
01-29-2012, 12:28
No different than the bozos that take 'sound shots' while hunting. LOL

ancient_serpent
01-29-2012, 12:30
My daughter is 100% blind and she goes to the range with me every chance she gets. Obviously there is a need for some amount of vision. She can just distinguish the bright orange center of the targets we use at just under three yards.
While she leaves her guide dog home (he doesn't like the noise) the looks we get when she walks in with her cane are great. Typically range from flat disbelief to folks looking for a hidden camera crew. Or maybe cover.
She like pistols with low recoil, right now she's best with a Walther P22. One of her friends (who is also blind) prefers a Beretta 92FS.
We have talked about offering more blind people and kids the chance to go shooting, not something they do every day.

Performance-wise, she is able to manipulate the pistol as well as anyone else, grouping is roughly palm-head sized depending on what drill she does.
Last time we went, she was working on immediate action.

TreyG-20
01-29-2012, 12:32
They have braille on the drive up ATM at my bank. If they let blind people drive, why not let them shoot?
LOL they do here too. Doesnt make to much since except i also see people driving motorized wheelchairs in the street here too

M2 Carbine
01-29-2012, 12:35
ancient_serpent :thumbsup:

MadMonkey
01-29-2012, 13:22
No different than the bozos that take 'sound shots' while hunting. LOL

Significantly different, actually.

Angry Fist
01-29-2012, 13:54
They have braille on the drive up ATM at my bank. If they let blind people drive, why not let them shoot?
:uglylol:



Yeah, a trip to the range is in order. He has a blind friend with a CCW. He's ready to try on as many as he can.

ScrappyDoo
01-29-2012, 17:04
This is a HUGE issue here in Jersey.... where we quietly have some of if not the most restrictive collection of gun laws in the nation.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/rockaway_township_blind_man_wh.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/nyregion/blind-new-jersey-man-challenged-again-on-guns.html

this guy is blind AND a hunter AND a gun collector AND accidentially shot himself with one of his guns while being blind.

OH AND While he was in the hospital recovering from the gunshot wounds, cops found guns supposedly strewn about his house in an unsafe unsecure and uncovered up type of way. And Did i mention, the reason cops was at his house while he was in the hospital was that, since he wa in the hospital, bad guys broke in to steal his guns since they knew he wouldnt be home. And they got some guns but not all. And one o the guns stolen from his house was trreaved and it had been used in a Murder.



So form your own opinions and conclusions I simply bring the information to you. This is a Hooooot Potato issue here in the dirtiest of Jersey!

Nestor
01-29-2012, 17:16
I can't see what You wrote there, but I say yes he should have a gun if he wants. Take him to the range and on your way there let him drive your Ferrari. Can be a lot of fun:
Al Pacino drives a Ferrari in 'Scent of a woman' - YouTube

Misty02
01-29-2012, 17:19
This is a HUGE issue here in Jersey.... where we quietly have some of if not the most restrictive collection of gun laws in the nation.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/rockaway_township_blind_man_wh.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/26/nyregion/blind-new-jersey-man-challenged-again-on-guns.html

this guy is blind AND a hunter AND a gun collector AND accidentially shot himself with one of his guns while being blind.

OH AND While he was in the hospital recovering from the gunshot wounds, cops found guns supposedly strewn about his house in an unsafe unsecure and uncovered up type of way. And Did i mention, the reason cops was at his house while he was in the hospital was that, since he wa in the hospital, bad guys broke in to steal his guns since they knew he wouldnt be home. And they got some guns but not all. And one o the guns stolen from his house was trreaved and it had been used in a Murder.



So form your own opinions and conclusions I simply bring the information to you. This is a Hooooot Potato issue here in the dirtiest of Jersey!


Believe it or not, most people in other states keep their guns in their home however they see fit. If someone breaks in your house to steal your property, it is the criminal that broke the law, not the homeowner.

Even professional trainers with years of experience have had negligent discharges and harmed themselves. The list of those that have shot themselves while cleaning their guns is not a short one either. All this by sighted people with experience.

.

Rumbler_G20
01-29-2012, 17:25
I just re-read the 2nd Amendment. Can't believe I missed that part about blind people being excluded from the right to bear arms.

Well said. Darned well said.:wavey:

arclight610
01-29-2012, 17:43
ancient_serpent :thumbsup:

x2 :wavey:

matt_lowry123
01-29-2012, 22:56
He'd be a better shot than most of the people who post gun reviews with targets at 7 yards.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

matt_lowry123
01-29-2012, 23:04
I'd tell him to get a hk45. I hear blind people can shoot pretty good with those!!!

ancient_serpent
01-30-2012, 01:01
ancient_serpent :thumbsup:

x2 :wavey:

Thanks guys!
I figure if I get involved with something like this that helps blind kids and even adults do something they may never have gotten to do otherwise, it's a good thing.

malakas
01-30-2012, 01:21
Should he be legally allowed to own a firearm? Sure, of course. It is an inalienable right that does not belong to the government and can only be taken away in rare circumstances through due process of law. Even then, that law must conform to natural law in the first place or it is invalid.

As to his blindless, blind for the purposes of legality and disability and the ADA, etc may be a lot different than total and complete blackout 24/7. If he can see cards and basic shapes and movement, he should be able to competently own and operate a firearm provided he seeks out and recieves the proper training and stays current with it.

He would also have a slightly different response to a percieved threat continum. The fundamental gun safety rule of "be sure of your target and what's behind it" will become even more crucial in his case. While anyone who responsibily carries a firearm has to be willing to use that force to defend themselves to stop the threat of death or great bodily harm to themselves or their family, he would have to be especially biased towards not shooting until he was sure one way or the other. It would be the same standard of someone with perfect vision in very low visibility conditions, only with a potential threat that could see everything.

But if he seeks training is otherwise responsibile I don't see anything wrong with him doing so. In either case there shouldn't be anything illegal about it.

wrczx3
01-30-2012, 10:43
He might as well get a gun. Heck, I am in a wheelchair and I own a ladder and a $120.00 pair of running sneakers.

Bob Hafler
01-30-2012, 12:29
20 ga Mossberg Cruiser shotgun with a light and high viz sites on it and #3 buck might be his best bet for HD.

Kcolg
01-30-2012, 19:59
I have a blind cousin (38 y.o.) that I took shooting for the first time last year. He had a blast. LOL Shot everything from pistols, AK's, AR's, and a G3 which he liked the best becuase of the percussion and air blast he could feel. I would just point him in a safe direction, tell him how far out the target was and let him have at it, giving him up/down/left/right directions after each shot so he could adjust. He actually hit a soda can at about 50 feet after about 8 rounds, and stayed fairly well on target after that. Very steady with his aim once I had him dialed in. (all free standing, no bench rest)

He also rides an ATV as long as he follows someone, he listens to the exhaust and stays about 20 yards behind me and can track my path within a couple of feet even when going fast and on turns.

When I was in High School years ago I had a friend that was also completely blind that rode a bike around town and used click sounds made with his mouth to navigate. The only thing that has ever given him issues was chain link fences. If he ran into one, he would just get back up, pick up his bike and keep going. He also swam on the swim team and we would use a stick with a tennis ball attached to touch his head as he got close to the wall so he would know when to do his flip turns or when to stop.

Gives you a whole new outlook on the blind and what can still be done.

Angry Fist
01-31-2012, 15:20
We're set to go to a good ole boy gun shop Saturday to get him fitted. He knows the owner, and may let him fire off a few out the back.

The_Gun_Guru
01-31-2012, 20:12
he can play cards but is 90% blind? Are the cards in braille?

If he can discern who is who at a distance (not just track blobs) I would say yes, no worries.

Wow, that's kind of rude, don't you think?

Being "legally blind" is just another handicap....like being in a wheelchair. If a guy in a wheelchair wants a gun, why not the guy that can't see very well?

I know a guy that is legally blind and owns a lot of guns and is actually a really good shot. I'd rather he have guns than most of the ghetto trash that I see at the gun shows (who probably have 20/20 vision).


Like someone else said....the 2nd Amendment doesn't exclude those with poor eyesight!:wavey:


TGG

true believer
01-31-2012, 20:28
Thanks guys!
I figure if I get involved with something like this that helps blind kids and even adults do something they may never have gotten to do otherwise, it's a good thing.

i agree..my x brother in law is totally blind..if we went up to cabin in mountains i would let him shoot 1 of my 38's..target at 10 yards and helped him point and let him shoot..he hit target most of the times..but he had fun..i dont believe he would ever buy a gun..
funny story, we would head to the bar and they had a shuffle board game..he actually beat a local at the game.. the guy got pissed and said he wasnt blind, so my x brother in law took out his 2 prothesis eyes to prove he was blind..

sad how he became blind..his best friend shot him in the face at close range with a 12 gauge..dont worry, its not loaded..he was 1 lucky person..

stolenphot0
01-31-2012, 20:33
He might as well get a gun. Heck, I am in a wheelchair and I own a ladder and a $120.00 pair of running sneakers.

This made me chuckle because my wife is in a wheelchair, and buys new shoes every year because she is tired of looking at them. Most are in great shape so they get donated. I don't mean to make light of your situation though. She said she would shoot with me, but a recent health decline is putting that in jeopardy.

ETA - I went to college, where a girl was legally blind, and becoming a photographer.

wrczx3
01-31-2012, 21:40
This made me chuckle because my wife is in a wheelchair, and buys new shoes every year because she is tired of looking at them. Most are in great shape so they get donated. I don't mean to make light of your situation though. She said she would shoot with me, but a recent health decline is putting that in jeopardy.

ETA - I went to college, where a girl was legally blind, and becoming a photographer.

I'm glad you caught my humor. My shoes go out of style long before I wear them out.

ca survivor
02-01-2012, 09:19
They have braille on the drive up ATM at my bank. If they let blind people drive, why not let them shoot?
the elevators have braille too on the numbers, doesn't mean in a parking lot elevator blind people are driving..althoug the way some people drive it makes you wonder :rofl:

WoodenPlank
02-01-2012, 09:32
This would be one of the few times when I'd actually recommend one of the "Shotgun Revolvers" like the Judge. With a multi ball load of 000 buck he'll have a better chance of hitting his target in a vital spot and if he can get up close and personal even a shot load would do enough damage to take care of an attacker.
I read an article many years ago in Guns and Ammo about self defense for folks that were totally blind using a handgun. The Author recommended a M29 S&W loaded with blanks for touch shooting. A blank ctg. will do quite a bit of damage if you press the muzzle into the target(remember Brandon Lee, RIP) and there's no projectile to go astray and harm an innocent.

Side note: Brandon Lee was not killed by a blank contact shot. The crew had tried to make dummy rounds from live rounds, and left the primers in place. Dummy round was "fired" and the primer left the bullet lodged in the barrel. later reloaded and fired with normal blanks, the previously lodged bullet was ejected, striking Lee in the stomach and lodging in his spine.

I'd tell him to get a hk45. I hear blind people can shoot pretty good with those!!!

:rofl:

I love a good reference...

Tony Rumore
02-01-2012, 11:56
How many people does it take to buy a gun? Five, if you're blind - says ATF.

If you actually read the instructions on the 4473 form, there is a provision that allows a third party to fill out the form for a blind person (other than the signature). You also need two additional people to witness the event and sign as such. So there will be at least five people present each time a blind person buys a gun.

Angry Fist
02-01-2012, 17:03
How many people does it take to buy a gun? Five if you're blind - says ATF.

If you actually read the instructions on the 4473 form, there is a provision that allows a third party to fill out the form for a blind person (other than the signature). You also need two additional people to witness the event and sign as such. So there will be at least five people present each time a blind person buys a gun.
Thanks, Tony. I was wondering about how that part would go down.