Left a round in the chamber: Gun show vendor shoots self [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RussP
01-31-2012, 10:39
Naw, loaded firearms at gun shows are not a problem, just negligent people.

Bill Adams, a licensed vendor at the event, apparently was showing his personal concealed weapon (http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/4979652-Police-Gun-show-vendor-shoots-self/)

Let everyone carry loaded - see how much more of this there will be...

Yang332
01-31-2012, 10:44
DOH! How does someone forget the round in the chamber?

ithaca_deerslayer
01-31-2012, 10:48
...pointing the gun at something human, and about to pull trigger... "It's ok, the gun is unloaded."

Bruce M
01-31-2012, 11:05
I am guessing maybe this is the reason the promoters want the guns left unloaded at shows?

RussP
01-31-2012, 11:06
I am guessing maybe this is the reason the promoters want the guns left unloaded at shows?Yes...I believe this would be a good reason.

glockaviator
01-31-2012, 11:11
Most common cause of an unintentional discharge. There's a round in the chamber that the gun user doesn't know about. He thinks the chamber is empty. So he dry fires and, BOOM!

Chaos88
01-31-2012, 11:13
Why do these storys always say the gun " went off " not the idiot pulled the trigger

guyandarifle
01-31-2012, 11:51
I was at the show when it happened. Soon as I heard the sound I thought "That's just effing great...can't wait to hear about this on the news."

I know people that have met the guy and by all accounts he's a good fellow but, just damn...:brickwall:

eruby
01-31-2012, 11:58
Why do these storys always say the gun " went off " not the idiot pulled the trigger+1.

Darn guns discharging themselves for no good reason.

itstime
01-31-2012, 12:05
I was at the show when it happened. Soon as I heard the sound I thought "That's just effing great...can't wait to hear about this on the news."

I know people that have met the guy and by all accounts he's a good fellow but, just damn...:brickwall:

My thoughts exactly.

gunslinger3
01-31-2012, 12:18
"Ya have to be smarter then that chunk of brainless steel you are carrying there sport."

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

xXGearheadXx
01-31-2012, 12:22
It was an interested day at the show. A guy got busted after stealing a couple guns from one vendor and then reselling them at the show...i watch him get hauled off.

The guy that shot himself did so about 30 minutes after i left...

TBO
01-31-2012, 12:23
I've been to some gun shows that left me a tad nervous.

JuneyBooney
01-31-2012, 12:25
Naw, loaded firearms at gun shows are not a problem, just negligent people.

Bill Adams, a licensed vendor at the event, apparently was showing his personal concealed weapon (http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/4979652-Police-Gun-show-vendor-shoots-self/)

Let everyone carry loaded - see how much more of this there will be...

I am sure that was an "Oh, damn" moment. :wow: But at least he didn't shoot anyone else. I hope he does not lose the use of his hand. Man, that hurts just thinking about it.

OctoberRust
01-31-2012, 12:25
I'm not sure how VA laws but, you can't CC loaded in a gun show, much like Texas correct?

Now if you were ALLOWED to carry concealed in a gunshow, why would you pull your defensive weapon out for show and tell? That's the stupid part, prohibit that, not concealed carry to defend ones self.

broncobuddha1
01-31-2012, 12:34
If I hadn't been sick I woud've been at the show. Craziness. A buddy of mine is a vendor and was about 40 feet from the guy when it happened. Said after the shot went off you could hear a pin drop.

Not sure if its state law or just the house rules but they are always posted outside at the entrance:

No loose ammo
No loaded magazines
No loaded concealed carry
All weapons must be checked and actions zip tied.

These are for patros and vendors alike.

So this guy not only violated the house rules, he violated all four principles of the safe handling of firearms.

RussP
01-31-2012, 12:57
I'm not sure how VA laws but, you can't CC loaded in a gun show, much like Texas correct?

Now if you were ALLOWED to carry concealed in a gunshow, why would you pull your defensive weapon out for show and tell? That's the stupid part, prohibit that, not concealed carry to defend ones self.Not Virginia law, just C & E Gun Shows' rule.

Allow loaded carry inside the show, just outlaw/prohibit taking a loaded weapon out of the holster/pocket/purse/bag/waist pack, is that what you mean?

RussP
01-31-2012, 13:03
I've been to some gun shows that left me a tad nervous. Yep, every time I hear, "Hey, what ya selling there?" Then some guy opens the case/pistol rug/bag/whatever. I look for a security tie. If there isn't one, I'm gone.

See, some people get the security tie and cut it off once on the floor of the show...hmmmmn.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-31-2012, 13:08
If you have to pull the trigger of your gun, triple check that it is empty first.

1. Pull the mag, and rack the slide open, look at the mag well and the chamber, making sure both are empty.

I can pull the trigger now, right? No, check again.

2. Ok, closing the slide, open it back up, mag well is empty, and chamber is empty, let the slide close again.

Now can I pull the trigger, I really want to pull the trigger, can't I pull it now? No, finish the triple check.

3. Alright, darn it, open the slide, see clearly there is no round in the chamber, I can even feel that it is empty with my finger, and the mag well is empty too, nothing in there, see my finger is sticking up from the bottom waving at me as I look down through the open ejection port.

Can I pull the trigger now? Sure, just point in a safe direction where the gun couldn't hurt anyone even it there was an AD.

Why go to all this bother? For one thing you are physically making absolutely sure your gun is empty. And for another, you are creating a mental break that gives you time to ensure you are checking properly. :)

glockfan2327
01-31-2012, 13:09
was a kimber 1911 the safest gun in the world , how that happen i though ND only happen with glocks >>>
the only safety is between your ears

glocked1
01-31-2012, 13:12
Never understood how these things happen. Luckily this type of gun owner is the minority (I hope)

RussP
01-31-2012, 13:14
:thumbsup:If you have to pull the trigger of your gun, triple check that it is empty first.

1. Pull the mag, and rack the slide open, look at the mag well and the chamber, making sure both are empty.

I can pull the trigger now, right? No, check again.

2. Ok, closing the slide, open it back up, mag well is empty, and chamber is empty, let the slide close again.

Now can I pull the trigger, I really want to pull the trigger, can't I pull it now? No, finish the triple check.

3. Alright, darn it, open the slide, see clearly there is no round in the chamber, I can even feel that it is empty with my finger, and the mag well is empty to, nothing in there, see my finger is sticking up from the bottom waving at me as I look down through the open ejection port.

Can I pull the trigger now? Sure, just point in a safe direction where the gun couldn't hurt anyone even it there was an AD.

Why go to all this bother? For one thing you are physically making absolutely sure your gun is empty. And for another, you are creating a mental break that gives you time to ensure you are checking properly. :)

glocked1
01-31-2012, 13:17
1. Pull the mag, and rack the slide open, look at the mag well and the chamber, making sure both are empty.


That would be enough, but I agree with the whole list.

Bruce M
01-31-2012, 13:18
.... Said after the shot went off you could hear a pin drop.

....

I remember here when a certain large ammunition dealer from an adjacent state somehow dropped a round on the floor and it somehow went off - same thing, you could hear a pin drop.

ithaca_deerslayer
01-31-2012, 13:28
1. Pull the mag, and rack the slide open, look at the mag well and the chamber, making sure both are empty.


That would be enough, but I agree with the whole list.

Yes, of course you are right. I made the decision long ago to go with the triple check. I've been doing it for decades.

What I have found is that not only is the process of racking the slide 3 times going to increase the odds of ejecting a round that you missed with the first check, but that the mental break, the PAIN IN THE BUTT process, of making yourself check 3 times gives you a respect for the seriousness of what you are about to do (pull the trigger of a gun).

So, yes, a proper single check will of course work, but so often that single check is sped up, done in a hurry, done without real thought, and done in a way that you are progressing from "loaded" to "unloaded" state of mind too quickly, and perhaps too casually.

And while YOU (whoever is reading this) might only need a single check because you are so proficient, the reality of there being many accidental discharges by people in general makes it clear that there is a problem. And sometimes, part of the self-reported information is that the guy who had the AD is usually careful but at that moment did a half-butted check, and at that moment did not take the process as seriously as he should have. My solution, and my effort here, is to say to one and all, TRIPLE CHECK :)

Cream Soda Kid
01-31-2012, 13:59
I’ve been to gun shows a couple of times. I didn’t like the idea of not being able to carry my gun concealed. But mostly I didn’t like the attitude of most of the vendors and some of the patrons. So I quit going to gun shows.

Every time I hear about an incident like this one, I know I made the right choice of not attending.

SigFTW
01-31-2012, 14:05
Trainer: Repeat after me, the gun is always loaded!
Student: no, I think it unloaded so it safe!
Trainer: No!, Repeat after me, the gun is always loaded!
Student: I'm sure it unloaded, because I don't remember putting one in the chamber, so it's safe!
Trainer: No, No, No, repeat after me THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED!!!!
Student: what's your problem, I know how to handle a gun, chill!
Gun: BOOM!!!
Student: "The gagaga-gun is alalal-ways lalalala-loaded!"

I don't like pulling my loaded gun and showing someone. If I am at home, I unload is a safe direction and Triple Check and have the one I am handing the gun to check when passing the gun with slide locked open because, THE GUN IS ALWAYS LOADED! :wow:

purrrfect 10
01-31-2012, 14:18
Simple rule the Mag comes out clear it twice then look. Somone hands you a pistol Take the Mag out LOOK at the mag clear it twice LOOK at the chamber

Same as..It's like what's the next thing ya do after you take a crap? sorry

Guess that is why they call it a gun show. Now folks gather around this is what you don't do What and Idiot

SpringerTGO
01-31-2012, 14:52
Accidents happen, even to the best of us.
A navy SEAL recently shot himself in the head. If he could make that mistake, anyone could.
So I wouldn't be too hard on the person who made the mistake...... hopefully none of us will do the same.

Patchman
01-31-2012, 16:33
Well, at least the guy knows his gun works.

3rdgen40
01-31-2012, 16:37
I guess some people do need a mag safety...:upeyes:

RenegadeGlocker
01-31-2012, 16:40
I'm not sure how VA laws but, you can't CC loaded in a gun show, much like Texas correct?


Texas law does not ban loaded CC at Gun Show. That is a show rule.


Now if you were ALLOWED to carry concealed in a gunshow, why would you pull your defensive weapon out for show and tell? That's the stupid part, prohibit that, not concealed carry to defend ones self.

Most of the NDs at shows I have been at (four), were by vendors showing off the CC guns.

Jason D
01-31-2012, 16:43
Here in MI it's not against the law to CCW into a gunshow.
The Venue can bar you from carrying, or rather they can request that you not and ask you to leave if you do and they notice it.

I always carry into a gunshow, if only because they are a gunshow and they ask at that door that you don't. For some reason that just rubs be the wrong way. Besides it's not my gun I worry about at gunshows.

High Altitude
01-31-2012, 16:46
I don't care if it is unloaded or not, never point a firearm at anything you don't want to shoot.

Some people just have to learn the hard way.

At least he didn't shoot anyone else but himself.

Glock 21 Dan
01-31-2012, 17:38
There was a ND at the Tulsa Gun Show a few years ago. Vender shot himself and a bystander too. Could have heard a pin drop for about a minute then it was business as usual.

The one thing I noticed was after the moron and the unfortunate bystander were hauled off to the hospital, 2 aisles were taped off for about 2 hours while a dozen or so cops stood around and discussed the events of the day.

I wonder who packed the guys stuff up??

porschedog
01-31-2012, 17:54
I was at a gun show in Ft Lauderdale about 15 years ago, maybe an hour into the show being open. Off to the side, a guy walks up to a table, grabs a gun (I don't recall what it was) and immediately pulls the trigger to dry fire it. The BOOM was ungodly loud, and yes, you could hear a pin drop afterwards. No one was hit, though I don't know how other than pure dumb luck, and the dealer was hustled out of the show. I'm pretty sure the "shooter" needed fresh underwear.

A3middie
01-31-2012, 18:01
I was taught in the academy not only to visually check, but also physically check the chamber by sticking your finger into the chamber. When I can clearly see that there is nothing in the chamber I still jam my pinky in there just because, habit I guess.

PrecisionRifleman
01-31-2012, 18:06
So it was his personal conceal carry. How in the world do you forget that you carry with one in the pipe. Makes me question whether he should have a CCW license.

Spiffums
01-31-2012, 19:12
The "rules" here for the shows are supposed to be no gun inside without a zip tie on it and a guy at work said they weren't even checking guns this last show

OctoberRust
01-31-2012, 19:14
Not Virginia law, just C & E Gun Shows' rule.

Allow loaded carry inside the show, just outlaw/prohibit taking a loaded weapon out of the holster/pocket/purse/bag/waist pack, is that what you mean?


That is exactly what I mean.

OctoberRust
01-31-2012, 19:15
Texas law does not ban loaded CC at Gun Show. That is a show rule.



Most of the NDs at shows I have been at (four), were by vendors showing off the CC guns.


I understand not allowing loaded firearms as "show" guns. That was why I was saying, only CC guns you use for self defense, and not show and tell to be loaded.

Tippyman
01-31-2012, 19:21
"The weapon discharged."

Haha. How bout the user discharged the weapon?

EDIT: I also never understood why everyone cries so much about not being able to carry concealed. I do it anyway. I know that the only reason my concealed weapon will come out for "show and tell" is if I have to kill someone with it to defend my life. By that point I don't really give a damn about whether I violated some gun show rule. Same goes for restaurants and other establishments that have "No Weapons" signs. I understand the no drinking while carrying law, and don't do it it, but if I go to Ruby Tuesdays with the family, I'm not leaving my gun in the car because of a stupid sign. No one knows I have the gun, and no one will, unless I no longer give a damn that everyone knows. Violating a law at this point is of little consequence to me because I am defending my very life. Preach all you want, but it's the truth.

HarleyGuy
01-31-2012, 20:14
We are all human and we all make mistakes.

What I cannot understand is how and why someone would EVER point the muzzle of a gun at their body (or any body) and pull the trigger?

The (gun) culprit is usually a Glock and many times the individual is an experienced shooter and sometimes cops.

Just doesn't make sense.

I hope the guy makes a full recovery.

larry_minn
02-03-2012, 11:36
Folks always do this with "unloaded" guns.

That said I knew a vendo who made the rounds of gun shows. He told me someone HAS been putting live ammo in firearms on tables.

He had it happen once. (and caught a person holding a live rd/looking over gun one other time) IIRC it went like this. He unloaded all guns at show, Checked they were all unloaded as he sets up display. Start of 2nd day he checks them all again as he removes quilt. End of 2nd day he sticks them all into their cases, loads his van, drives home, parks in secured garage. (alarms) Next day a neighbor shows up. Neighbor had decided he DID want that rifle, "if you still have it" So they go in garage (after turning off alarm system) unlock van, find case, remove rifle, checks it ....... A LOADED ROUND WAS IN CHAMBER. He has no idea how may times he checked it after letting someone look at it. But KNOWS he checked it those two times. Now he checks them before he takes them home.

He is only person I know who has PERSONALY had this happen. HE said other dealers have had it happen. (in the case listed this was not cause)

Pop Smoke
02-03-2012, 11:49
Naw, loaded firearms at gun shows are not a problem, just negligent people.

Bill Adams, a licensed vendor at the event, apparently was showing his personal concealed weapon (http://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/4979652-Police-Gun-show-vendor-shoots-self/)

Let everyone carry loaded - see how much more of this there will be...


Interesting. They didn't mention who the hosting company was. In my area of Mo, it tends to be R&K and they've had documented discharges due to vendors and their personal firearms. The news report on the most recent started out that it was the patron's fault when it really was the vendor's fault for violating the rules of no loaded firearms....period. If memory serves, they've gone so far to say no loaded mags either. What a way to set everyone up to be a victim.

gommer
02-03-2012, 11:51
All the local shows here in Benton County, AR - the Sheriff's dept. comes and they check every gun at the door and strip-tie them safe.

Not sure I'd go in the door otherwise, too many really stupid folks in this area.





On that note.. a question.

20 years ago - I wouldn't have thought a thing about going in a gun show. Folks asked before they touched, everyone pointed things in safe directions, people didn't dry fire everything they picked up, kids would walk with their dads and not stray, just in general - people weren't morons.

Are folks getting dumber, gun crowd becoming more diverse, what gives?

broncobuddha1
02-03-2012, 12:03
Pop, it was a R&K show.

davsco
02-03-2012, 12:11
i really think that the gun show promoters mandating no concealed carry at gun shows is totally hypocritical and frankly hurts our 2A progress.

can you imagine when the anti's catch on to this? "the gun shows don't even allow concealed carry, but every bank, restaurant, bar, retail store, park and the like are supposed to allow concealed carry???"

PAGunner
02-03-2012, 12:22
Accidents happen, even to the best of us.
A navy SEAL recently shot himself in the head. If he could make that mistake, anyone could.
So I wouldn't be too hard on the person who made the mistake...... hopefully none of us will do the same.

I beg to differ, just because he's a Navy SEAL doesn't mean his gun safety is impeccable, mine is. I respect that SEAL's service and sacrifice, but doesn't mean I respect his gun safety habits.

PAGunner
02-03-2012, 12:28
I was taught in the academy not only to visually check, but also physically check the chamber by sticking your finger into the chamber. When I can clearly see that there is nothing in the chamber I still jam my pinky in there just because, habit I guess.

Same here, but I didn't pick that habit up from the academy (not LEO), I'm anal about things like that. :wavey:

Christian944
02-03-2012, 12:32
I beg to differ, just because he's a Navy SEAL doesn't mean his gun safety is impeccable, mine is. I respect that SEAL's service and sacrifice, but doesn't mean I respect his gun safety habits.

Which part, the one about him not checking if the gun was loaded or pointing the gun to his own head?

SpringerTGO
02-03-2012, 13:21
I beg to differ, just because he's a Navy SEAL doesn't mean his gun safety is impeccable, mine is. I respect that SEAL's service and sacrifice, but doesn't mean I respect his gun safety habits.

I'm glad to hear your gun safety is impeccable. It's an honor to meet someone (on the 'net) who has perfected gun safety. Maybe you can make a side job out of training SEAL's, because I'm sure they all have a bunch of bad habits you can break them of.