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strakele
01-31-2012, 21:15
Hey guys, I just recently got my CHL, a Glock 19, and a Galco KingTuk holster. I love the Glock, and the holster is nice and comfortable.

Here's my issue. I've been practicing my draw a lot, and upward pressure on the gun in the holster will pull my pants up a couple of inches before actually coming out of the darn holster. It feels (and looks, I'm sure) awkward and goofy. It isn't too much of an issue if I really rip the gun out of the holster as fast as I possibly can, but it's impossible to draw at anything less than 110% speed without this happening. I want to be able to practice at 50-75% speed for a while to really get the motion into muscle memory before getting faster, and I just can't do it.

I loosened the Kydex a bit with some heat, to the point where if I'm holding the holster in my hands and turn it upside down, the gun will fall out. Of course there's still plenty of retention when it's inside my waistband, but no matter how loose it is, the path of least resistance as I draw is still to pull my pants up before the gun actually comes out of the holster. It draws perfectly if I lightly hold some of the fabric of my pants down with my weak hand so that it can't come up.

What should I do? I'm a bit over 5'9" and 130 lbs. This happens no matter how tight or loose my belt is. Problem is, my torso simply isn't any wider than my waist until my ribcage starts.

I just thought of adding some rubber or roughing up the smooth leather that sits against my body so that it grips better and doesn't slide up as easily. Good idea? Other suggestions?

Thanks for any help!

UPDATE: I still have the issue after getting a gun belt. Seems it's just because the holster is tightly curved around my 28" waist. Considering others that aren't quite as wide...

See posts on second page.

xmanhockey7
01-31-2012, 21:20
I think I do this a little bit but I've never really seen it as a problem. I'm assuming others go through this too. Do you have a good sturdy gun belt? That might help a little bit. Or if you can switch to an OWB holster.

tim12232
01-31-2012, 21:35
you may be pulling the gun at a slight angle? I have the King Tuk for my p229 and and im 5'7" and 140. I wouldnt really recommend loosening it as much as I would really just work on the draw over and over again, watch in a mirror if you can. Where are you wearing the holster 3 oclock? 4? 5? I do best with that holster at 4 and 5. I will also say the SIG is also a trickier gun than the glock due to its sides not being as smooth and flush as the Glocks. Good Luck!

strakele
01-31-2012, 21:41
I think I do this a little bit but I've never really seen it as a problem. I'm assuming others go through this too. Do you have a good sturdy gun belt? That might help a little bit. Or if you can switch to an OWB holster.

I figure several other people run into this issue, but probably to a lesser extent. My pants will get pulled up a good 3-4 inches - literally until the waist of the pants is at the bottom of my ribcage, and by that time, I'm about out of upward range of motion of my drawing arm, making it even harder.

I do admit that as of now, I'm using a standard BDU belt that I had laying around. I understand the support benefits of a gun belt and plan to get one soon, but I don't see how it would help this particular situation.

I think an OWB holster would be much harder to conceal for someone my size. I live in the south... it's not even February yet and it's gonna be almost 70 degrees tomorrow, so I need something I can conceal without much clothing.

you may be pulling the gun at a slight angle? I have the King Tuk for my p229 and and im 5'7" and 140. I wouldnt really recommend loosening it as much as I would really just work on the draw over and over again, watch in a mirror if you can. Where are you wearing the holster 3 oclock? 4? 5? I do best with that holster at 4 and 5. I will also say the SIG is also a trickier gun than the glock due to its sides not being as smooth and flush as the Glocks. Good Luck!

Slight angle in which direction? Forward? To the right?

I'm wearing the holster with the gun at around 4 o'clock, behind my hip. I have practiced in the mirror. But no matter what, unless I physically hold my pants down with my non-drawing hand, they'll just slide up as I put upward pressure on the gun until they finally stop, at which point my arm has almost reached the limit of its range of motion.

ncglock19
01-31-2012, 21:51
Is the holster adjustable? If you have less tension, the gun will come out easier. Perhaps someone knows of a good G19 holster for CC.

nc19

Taphius
01-31-2012, 21:56
Your going to have to loosen the retention a then.

You could try twisting the grip inward toward your back as you draw, that should break the tension at the trigger guard a bit

strakele
01-31-2012, 22:01
There is no built in retention adjustment. I did read about how people made theirs easier by heating the Kydex until it was soft enough to reform. I did this over the weekend, and it made a great difference. It's much easier, but I still run into the problem fairly often. I'll fiddle with it more and try to figure out exactly where it's catching, and try to reform that bit.

I'd rather just be able to keep my pants at the proper height than making the holster so loose that the gun just wants to fall out though..

DaneA
01-31-2012, 22:46
I do admit that as of now, I'm using a standard BDU belt that I had laying around. I understand the support benefits of a gun belt and plan to get one soon, but I don't see how it would help this particular situation.

The stiffness of the belt will fix this problem. For now cinch your BDU belt as tight as you can and I'll bet it will help reduce your problem.

strakele
02-01-2012, 08:34
I do plan to get one, but would you mind explaining how exactly it'll help this particular issue? I've read gun belts are thick and stiff to help make sure the clips don't slip off and to be able to support the extra weight of a pistol without sagging long term.

I just don't see how a thicker, stiffer belt will somehow keep my pants from coming up. I feel like I could have a belt made from 1/8" solid metal and it'd still happen.

slickt0mmy
02-01-2012, 08:49
A tight gun belt with a good holster should do the trick. The belt won't flex, which means the holster will stay where it is and the gun will come out. I've been using a Wilderness Instructor belt with a G19 in an MTAC holster and have had no problems at all.

dosei
02-01-2012, 08:50
I do admit that as of now, I'm using a standard BDU belt that I had laying around. I understand the support benefits of a gun belt and plan to get one soon, but I don't see how it would help this particular situation.

Belts that do not sag...do not sag...up or down. They do not allow the holster to shift...period. The benifit & importance of a good stiff belt really cannot be overstated. Get an Aker B21 or a Wilderness CSM, the difference is night and day.

Pierre!
02-01-2012, 09:18
Personally, I am not sure I understand the issue...

You are practicing the deployment of your last ditch personal security system...

As long as you are able to move, you are accomplishing the goal, yes?

I don't know that this is an issue - When you are in full adrenaline dump, you won't care!

Try joining an IDPA or USPSA club, and you will get some things figured out pretty quickly...

For ME, and Just For Me, I don't care what I look like while I am defending my loved ones or myself... as long as I *WIN* all is good...

Know what I mean?

Keep practicing. Slow and *perfect* - remembering that practice will only make it permanent, and only *PERFECT* practice will result in perfection. You are training/building muscle memory, not speed... :cool:

*Joke Mode On*
Perhaps that's why the GangStas sagg their pants? Could that be the reason? :rofl:
/*Joke Mode Off*

Hope that helps you out...
Patrick

dosei
02-01-2012, 09:28
One small thing you can do that may help a little...until you get a proper belt...
Carefully wipe some Armor All onto the interior of the kydex part of the holster.

strakele
02-01-2012, 09:36
Alright, I'll check out gun belts sooner rather than later.



Personally, I am not sure I understand the issue...

As long as you are able to move, you are accomplishing the goal, yes?

I don't know that this is an issue - When you are in full adrenaline dump, you won't care!

For ME, and Just For Me, I don't care what I look like while I am defending my loved ones or myself... as long as I *WIN* all is good...

Keep practicing. Slow and *perfect* - remembering that practice will only make it permanent, and only *PERFECT* practice will result in perfection. You are training/building muscle memory, not speed... :cool:



Can I get the gun out of the holster quickly if I want to? Yeah. It is as fast and smooth and consistent as I know it can be? No, and that's where my issue is. No, I couldn't care less what it looks like to anyone else, but I want it to feel right.

I will certainly keep practicing. I'd love to do it "slow and perfect," but the problem is, if I attempt to draw the gun at anything less than full speed, my pants move, not the gun, lol. Maybe I should make a video of this to show it better.

H&K 4 LIFE
02-01-2012, 11:02
I'm just as skinny as you and have this same issue with leather OWB holsters.

I do not have this issue with my daily carry M-tac. Like you, I have set the retention on the holster low and let the tension of the belt do most of the work.

As dosei suggested, the solution is to get a better belt, and more specifically, a purpose built gun belt. This will most likely eliminate the problem you are having, in addition to improving the comfort of the way your gun carries tenfold.

Gunnut 45/454
02-01-2012, 11:06
You need a stiff leather belt! And you might have to change to a different holster. I'm a leather guy- use a Tucker IWB and the pistol comes out smooth as silk.:whistling:

dosei
02-01-2012, 12:26
You need a stiff leather belt! And you might have to change to a different holster. I'm a leather guy- use a Tucker IWB and the pistol comes out smooth as silk.:whistling:

Having used both leather holsters and kydex holsters, I can tell you that there isn't a leather holster made that can match the best kydex holsters. After using the best kydex rigs around, the best leather rigs suddenly seem like they are clinging onto the gun like velcro...

It is so very difficult for me to settle for anything other than a KyTac Braveheart IWB...it's a shame they are so very difficult to get.

ctrl
02-01-2012, 14:58
I'm also your same size, and depending on clothing I to have this problem.

I have a galco gun belt and it does help. I believe a gun belt makes a world of difference holding the gun nice and snug due to less movement from lack of flexing like a normal belt. I have to wear the belt a little tighter while carrying (owb) then I normally would like. It can still become an issue depending on type of clothing im wearing too.

Bill Lumberg
02-03-2012, 10:26
To the user, while it usually feels as though they are drawing straight up, frequently folks are actually drawing at closer to 45 degrees away from the body. Draw straight up to your armpit. If you're drawing properly, the base joint of your thumb stays in contact with your body all the way up your ribcage.

Veedubklown
02-03-2012, 10:53
To the user, while it usually feels as though they are drawing straight up, frequently folks are actually drawing at closer to 45 degrees away from the body. Draw straight up to your armpit. If you're drawing properly, the base joint of your thumb stays in contact with your body all the way up your ribcage.

I never thought about that, but I rake along my rip-cage when I draw. I'd say keep working with it. After you wear it for a while and work with it, it will wear in. The leather is still fresh, and probably doesn't have wear tracks for your gun yet. Not only is the kydex holding your gun, but your hip pushes the gun into the mold. You may consider losening the tension more, but remember most of it is done, inside the trigger guard.

Pop Smoke
02-03-2012, 11:55
Hey guys, I just recently got my CHL, a Glock 19, and a Galco KingTuk holster. I love the Glock, and the holster is nice and comfortable.

Here's my issue. I've been practicing my draw a lot, and upward pressure on the gun in the holster will pull my pants up a couple of inches before actually coming out of the darn holster. It feels (and looks, I'm sure) awkward and goofy. It isn't too much of an issue if I really rip the gun out of the holster as fast as I possibly can, but it's impossible to draw at anything less than 110% speed without this happening. I want to be able to practice at 50-75% speed for a while to really get the motion into muscle memory before getting faster, and I just can't do it.

I loosened the Kydex a bit with some heat, to the point where if I'm holding the holster in my hands and turn it upside down, the gun will fall out. Of course there's still plenty of retention when it's inside my waistband, but no matter how loose it is, the path of least resistance as I draw is still to pull my pants up before the gun actually comes out of the holster. It draws perfectly if I lightly hold some of the fabric of my pants down with my weak hand so that it can't come up.

What should I do? I'm a bit over 5'9" and 130 lbs. This happens no matter how tight or loose my belt is. Problem is, my torso simply isn't any wider than my waist until my ribcage starts.

I just thought of adding some rubber or roughing up the smooth leather that sits against my body so that it grips better and doesn't slide up as easily. Good idea? Other suggestions?

Thanks for any help!

Stop lubricating your waist line!

Seriously though, try to shift the holster slightly on your body. Moving it just an inch or two in any direction can make a world of difference, especially if you're wearing it directly at your 3 O'clock or 9 O'clock on your hips.

I have a Crossbreed Supertuck that's a little thinner than the Kingtuk, so if you have an adjustable height on the clips make an adjustment or two there to see if anything helps. What helped me was to put the rear clip higher than the front clip to give it a bit of the FBI cant (it's not much). That altered the pressure from my belt and changed where it rubbed on my tree-trunk legs.

strakele
02-03-2012, 12:03
Thanks guys. Will definitely keep practicing. Also looking into nylon gun belts.

Stop lubricating your waist line!

Seriously though, try to shift the holster slightly on your body. Moving it just an inch or two in any direction can make a world of difference, especially if you're wearing it directly at your 3 O'clock or 9 O'clock on your hips.

I have a Crossbreed Supertuck that's a little thinner than the Kingtuk, so if you have an adjustable height on the clips make an adjustment or two there to see if anything helps. What helped me was to put the rear clip higher than the front clip to give it a bit of the FBI cant (it's not much). That altered the pressure from my belt and changed where it rubbed on my tree-trunk legs.

I wear it behind my hip at about 4 O'clock. I have the clips set so that the front sits 1 hole lower than the back.

Pop Smoke
02-03-2012, 12:22
Thanks guys. Will definitely keep practicing. Also looking into nylon gun belts.



I wear it behind my hip at about 4 O'clock. I have the clips set so that the front sits 1 hole lower than the back.

4 O'clock it is then. Is that position pulling the holster around the torso (since you're skinny) in a fashion that really pulls the leather up against the kydex? Even if just one of those clipped sides is pulled at an extreme tension angle it could be the source of the problem.

I had a student having this problem when using a Crossbreed Supertuck due to her very slim stature. She wound up having to shift it to a small of the back carry, closest to the 4 O'clock position, but in a manner that the clips were behind and not pulling hard on the material.

If you go nylon, look into something of a nice thickness like that of a rigger's belt. You'll find that your holster will deform the belt less due to the weight on one location.

DannyII
02-03-2012, 15:44
I'm certainly not thin, but i had a similar issue when I had a King-tuk holster. I think it had to do more with draw angle than retention. I got rid of it, and got a Comp-tac MTAC, and I can draw slowly with minimal belt movement. It's also more comfortable, and covers more of the trigger area.

strakele
02-04-2012, 23:13
I moved the holster back to more like 4:30 today and it seemed to help a bit.

I also went to a new outdoors / gun store in the area to check out what they had and happened to see some 5.11 belts. Most of them didn't seem a whole lot sturdier than my current one, except for the double thick 1 3/4" 'operator' belt. I'll have to check how long the other clips for my holster are, but I don't think they'd even go around a belt that wide. I'm currently using the 1 1/4" C-hook clips. They're less obvious and have a tighter grip on the thin belt I have right now.

5.11 and Wilderness Tactical were the only nylon belt brands I've seen mentioned. Any others I should check out?

Pop Smoke
02-05-2012, 00:35
I wear a thick leather gun belt, so if you can find one of the Blackhawk Rigger's belts or one similar to that you're in business. I think 5.11 was making some similar and there's another person that started making them on the web. I can't remember if it was missouricarry.com, arfcom, or another board. I'll do some checking.

Anyone else have ideas?

The nylon belt I have is my thin para-belt from Afghanistan and it's certainly not up to holding gun weight. My Paraclete leg holster folded it over easily.

from google
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&cp=17&gs_id=2x&xhr=t&q=nylon+rigger%27s+belt&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=nylon+rigger%27s+be&aq=0w&aqi=q-w1&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=782384432d316272&biw=1366&bih=664

samuse
02-05-2012, 00:57
The problem is that you're so small in circumference that the curvature of your bony side makes the gun tighter in the holster than it would be if you were a 40" lard-ass. IME, OWB with a pancake holster in extremely painful.

I'm almost as small as you are and I carry a Glock 19 every day for years.

Milt Sparks VM-II on a Wilderness Instructor w/ CSM.

Bill Lumberg
02-05-2012, 04:53
If you're not using a gunbelt, you should expect problems.

SGT_Calle
02-05-2012, 07:39
6'3", 170 lbs here, a good belt helps.
I have that 5.11 1.75" operator belt. I think that 1.5" version is the trainer belt. I'm thinking about picking one up.

strakele
02-05-2012, 08:03
I also saw a couple Safairland leather belts that were massive, both in width and thickness. I think a black nylon belt will go much better with my normal clothing style (cargo pants and t-shirt) than a big leather one with a big buckle and whatnot.

Seems that the Wilderness belts are the most recommended nylon ones.

For you guys that carry with a KingTuk, Supertuck, or any of the other similarly designed hybrid tuckable holsters, what kind of belts do you guys use? I'll have to go back and look, but I'm not sure the clips would even fit over a 1.75" belt.

Is there any point in looking at 1 1/4" belts, or is that just too narrow?

DannyII
02-10-2012, 13:44
A suggestion for you - The 1-1/2" Wilderness Frequent Flyer looks a bit less "tacti-cool", and is also lighter in weight than the Instructor. I have the Instructor already and like it a lot, but I'm planning on getting a FF.

A 1-1/4" belt will "techincally" work, but most holsters are geared for a 1-1/2" belt. If your belt isn't wide enough, the clips are sloppy, and will move around on you both during the draw, and daily wear. Even if you get a 1-1/4" holster, it will be a little less stable. Plus 1-1/2" will be stiffer than 1-1/4", but still fit through most all belt loops, whereas the 1-3/4" may not.

strakele
02-10-2012, 13:58
Thanks for the suggestion. I think that's what I'll go with. I just asked about the 1 1/4 because of the C-hooks I got for my holster that are that size. I like having something to hook under the belt, and they're much less obvious than the stock clips. But still not a big deal, and I'm sure having a thicker belt will make having hook under the belt less necessary.

How thick is the Frequent Flyer?

DannyII
02-11-2012, 05:25
I believe the FF is the same thickness as the Instructor. My instructor measures 3/16" where there's no velcro, and just shy of 1/4" where there is the loop velcro.

Here's the link to the FF belt. http://www.thewilderness.com/storepinnacle/index.php?p=product&id=2503

MidwayUSA has them, too.

Read the measuring instructions carefully. Get a belt that's about 3-4" bigger than you waist size if you carry IWB, 2-3" if OWB.

strakele
02-11-2012, 08:03
Is it worth getting the CSM insert or should the 5 stitch be good?

jellis11
02-11-2012, 08:13
A little better belt and maybe try a few different pairs of pants. I have a king tuk for my g26 and had to change my usual belt. I also had a few different pairs of jeans I would wear but have since changed to my favorite. The 527's. Def look into a stiffer belt.

Bill Lumberg
02-11-2012, 10:18
The 5 stitch is plenty. The belt is key, not the pants.

DannyII
02-11-2012, 18:50
The 5 stitch is what I have and it's plenty stiff for a Glock, plus a reload on the weak side, and cell phone. I know because that's my EDC.

Gun Shark
02-11-2012, 19:13
I have a 5.11 tactical belt(got it for 37 bucks total) and a mitch rosen premier express holster, it's owb and I conceal it well according to close friends and family)for my compact .40, I am about 5'8 and I keep it just behind my hip. My draw is pretty fluid both slow and fast and it is very comfortable. I saw people mentioned trying different pants and this is something I have noticed as well, some pants are just more comfortable than others and sometimes where you carry the gun will change depending on the pants) Hope this helps and congrats on your permit.

strakele
02-20-2012, 09:14
At the store this weekend they were having a 20% off sale on 5.11 gear, so I picked up an operator belt (1.75" wide, double thick with stiff insert for holster wear).

It has helped a bit, but to be honest, not quite as much as I had hoped. Maybe I'm trying to achieve something that isn't possible. I think I'll post a video of what I'm talking about.

Also, with the thickness of the belt combined with my pants, the front clip seems to have a tough time holding on sometimes. I have the front one set lower than the back to give the holster more of a cant, so the clip is at an angle to the belt.

Should I look at a different holster?

ca survivor
02-20-2012, 16:29
tighter or better belt.

Blaster
02-20-2012, 20:21
I have a Desantis OWB holster that is darn near impossible to draw from. The gun will fall out if turned upside down off the belt.

On a belt and on my body at 3 to 4:00 the outer leather is stretched to the point where it holds the gun like a vise. In my opinion it was made poorly and is all but useless. Perhaps your rig is experiencing similar results.

strakele
02-21-2012, 09:26
Yeah. The leather part of the holster is curved pretty tightly - it literally wraps more than 1/4 of the way around my body. Front clip is at like 2:30, rear clip is at almost 6 o'clock.

Maybe I need a holster that isn't as wide? The KingTuk and similar variants are around 8 inches wide. My waist is less than 29 inches..