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sgt-spam
02-01-2012, 06:13
I've decided on a RL550B press, and intend to order it and related accessories today.

To go along with that order, I anticipate ordering some fresh brass, primers, powder, and bullets. I have plenty of brass saved over the past year or two, but want a clean start, so to speak.

There's a sticky here with brass that's GTG, but I didn't see any general recommendations (for the beginner) on what powder or bullets to start with.

I'll be loading 9mm and .45 ACP, and will need jacketed bullets. This is general range ammo - no special function / requirement besides FMJ.

Would someone mind pushing me in the right direction?

Thanks.

ca survivor
02-01-2012, 06:29
for the .45 ACP I use Winchester 231 or Alliant powder UNIQUE, I don't reload 9mm, but I think 231 can be use also, hope it helps, always be careful and start LOW at first..
Now I'm using Hornady's jacketed bullets, because is all I could find locally, stay away from lead bullets until you find out if it can be used in your guns.

F106 Fan
02-01-2012, 09:15
I would think you would look into Precision Delta for jacketed bullets. You will need to order in multiples of 2000 each.

http://www.precisiondelta.com/product.php?indx=5

As to powder, that will depend on the bullet weight to some extent. Decide which bullets you are planning to use and someone can suggest a powder.

You should be getting your load data from reloading manuals or from the powder manufacturer's site. I tend to prefer the Hodgdon site:

http://www.hodgdon.com/basic-manual-inquiry.html

While you are Hodgdon, go to Products->Company Store and order their 2 loading manuals.

Most folks around here are going to recommend a slow powder like Unique. Unfortunately, the Alliant site doesn't present as many options for loading as does Hodgdon. Among other things, they only present a single powder charge and do not provide a min/max range. Nevertheless, a slow powder is probably the way to start.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/

From the Hodgdon site you might want to look at Longshot and WSF for 9mm and .45 ACP, again, depending on the bullet.

In terms of Unique, there will be a lot of data in the bullet manufacturer's loading manuals. The Speer Reloading Manual #14 has loads using Unique for both 9mm and .45 ACP. You will wind up with several reloading manuals. I suggest Speer, Lyman and Hornady as a start.

Find out which powders your LGS stocks. I would expect all of them to have Unique.

I use Federal primers but a lot of folks use CCI because they are cheaper and work well.

Richard

Zombie Steve
02-01-2012, 09:15
I really like Unique, but I'm sold on WSF for full power loads on a progressive.

I did get a chance to shoot Unique and WSF loads side by side. WSF was noticeably less snappy but got the same speeds.


Oh yeah... don't bother buying brass if you have some. It's a waste of money. Just load what you have over and over and over. :supergrin:

ron59
02-01-2012, 09:47
Precision Delta bullets are a great choice for jacketed.

For powder, something like WSF would work fine. I've used it in 9mm and liked it, and I know of people who use it in .45ACP who like it. Ideally, you would select one powder that would give satisfactory results in both those calibers.

You'll also need primers? Usually the BEST deal is to get them online, but you have to buy in bulk to get a good deal. As in 10,000 of them. If you're not running a light striker spring you can use CCIs where are cheaper, if you are you would most likely need Federals.

If I buy 10,000 CCIs online, my price is basically $25 per 1000 ($2.50 per 100)
The same for Federals would be closer to $32 or $33 per 100

Around here, primers are close to $40 per 1000 which is why I buy online. But some in here say they get them much cheaper locally.

sgt-spam
02-01-2012, 09:51
Thanks for the suggestions so far. To follow up, I'm looking at 115gr and 230gr bullets only because that's what I'm used to shooting for range ammo.

I hear / read good things about CCI primers and assumed that's the route I'd take. I'm a Glock guy and shoot them stock.

I will look in to precision delta and wsf. Is it worth my time to buy a couple small quantity packages locally, or just pick up a couple thousand online and have at it?

Thanks for the note about the brass.

unclebob
02-01-2012, 10:00
I would suggest using 200gr bullets instead of the 230. Canít help you on powder the powders I use are not really for beginner reloaders.

sgt-spam
02-01-2012, 10:01
I would suggest using 200gr bullets instead of the 230.

Why?

Thanks!

fredj338
02-01-2012, 11:10
You need a reloading manual or three. CHoose the powder based on performance. That is a powder that gives you the vel you want w/o pushing max pressures. FOr ALL noobs, I recommend medium burn rate powders like Unique, WSF, Universal, PP or HS6. SLower powders have less steep pressure curves & do not spike at the top as fasterer powders. Study the books, lots of good info in them.
For bullets, buy 1K each from PD. FOr powder, buy 1# locally. That gets your feet wet, about 1400rds, & you'll have an idea if you like it or not. Then you can buy the 4# or 8# jug. Primers, buy in bulk, always, 5K min for best price. They don't go bad & their isn't a ton of diff between brands. Well, except for Wolf Small P, won't sue them again.

unclebob
02-01-2012, 11:40
Why?

Thanks!

All you are doing is punching holes in paper. Less recoil, And they are cheaper.

ron59
02-01-2012, 13:21
All you are doing is punching holes in paper. Less recoil, And they are cheaper.

I've always thought that, at equivalent PF, the *heavier* bullet gives less recoil. Certainly works that way for 9mm, which is why I run the 147s.

I also use 230grainers in .45ACP.

The cheaper thing is certainly true, but that's not the key thing for my reloads.

unclebob
02-01-2012, 13:36
I've always thought that, at equivalent PF, the *heavier* bullet gives less recoil. Certainly works that way for 9mm, which is why I run the 147s.

I also use 230grainers in .45ACP.

The cheaper thing is certainly true, but that's not the key thing for my reloads.

Since PF does not play into any of my loads. Yes I use 135gr. and did use 147gr bullets for 9mm. But for 45acp I get less recoil and with 185 and 200gr bullets than I do with 230. Yesterday I went to the range with 185gr and 200gr and I also found some 230 gr bullets that I thought that I had shot all up for GSSF. The 230gr bullets had a hell of a lot more recoil than the others. At least this is what I and others have found. Either way the 200gr bullets are still cheaper.

GioaJack
02-01-2012, 13:45
Given the same velocity heavier bullets will produce more recoil than lighter bullets.

It involves all that boring scientific stuff. My brother-in-law is a particle physicist, he can explain it... I'd rather spend my time thinking about women.


Jack

ron59
02-01-2012, 13:50
Since PF does not play into any of my loads. Yes I use 135gr. and did use 147gr bullets for 9mm. But for 45acp I get less recoil and with 185 and 200gr bullets than I do with 230. Yesterday I went to the range with 185gr and 200gr and I also found some 230 gr bullets that I thought that I had shot all up for GSSF. The 230gr bullets had a hell of a lot more recoil than the others. At least this is what I and others have found. Either way the 200gr bullets are still cheaper.

To an extent, it does. Lighter bullets travel faster than a heavier bullet.

A 147gr at 900fps is 132PF.
a 115gr at 132PF is 1150fps.

Guess what. That's the typical speed I see most people loading their 115s to. And if you compare those head-to-head? The 147gr will have so much less recoil you will laugh.

If you were to load that 115gr at 900fps (same speed I quoted for the 147grainer), it would have less recoil. But it wouldn't actuate the slide I think.

Even CLOSE to the same PF, the heavier wins out.
I'd like to have seen the chrony numbers for your 180, 200, 230 grain loads you shot. You may have loaded those 230s a lot hotter than you did the others, and thus the heavier recoil.

Yeah, GSSF doesn't have PF requirements. Any other game does. If you're just plinking? Might not matter. If someone ever decides to to compete in IDPA/USPSA, I think being aware that the heavier grain bullet is softer is important to know... only reason I responded. I don't know the OPs intent, but I wanted to plant that little seed in his head.

ron59
02-01-2012, 13:56
Given the same velocity heavier bullets will produce more recoil than lighter bullets.



We've talked about this before Jack. No one loads a 147grain bullet to 1150fps, the typical speed of a 115grain bullet. Or even 1100fps. Speer Gold Dots rate their 9mm 147s at 985fps, but their 115gr at 1210fps. So while your statement is 100% true, it is also facetious. Comparing power factors is a more "equal" and realistic test.

I supplied numbers above for 115gr and 147gr loads. Equal power factors and what I would say are fairly common velocities for those bullet weights when not looking for SD rounds. Using those numbers? 147gr is so much softer it'll put a grin on your face. Guaranteed.

fredj338
02-01-2012, 14:08
We've talked about this before Jack. No one loads a 147grain bullet to 1150fps, the typical speed of a 115grain bullet. Or even 1100fps. Speer Gold Dots rate their 9mm 147s at 985fps, but their 115gr at 1210fps. So while your statement is 100% true, it is also facetious. Comparing power factors is a more "equal" and realistic test.

I supplied numbers above for 115gr and 147gr loads. Equal power factors and what I would say are fairly common velocities for those bullet weights when not looking for SD rounds. Using those numbers? 147gr is so much softer it'll put a grin on your face. Guaranteed.

Jack is covering the blanket statement of heavier bullets have less recoil than lighter bullets. Only if you load the light ones up hot & the heavy ones soft. I get a bit softer 170PF load using 200gr in my 45 than 230gr.:dunno:

GioaJack
02-01-2012, 14:12
Ron, I agree with you a hundred percent but there seems to be a lot of newbs that don't understand the difference and believe that heavier bullets produce less recoil.

As you pointed out, for that to occur all things, except for bullet weight, are not equal.

PF is a relatively new aspect of shooting and while apparently a very important consideration in the world of gaming was never a factor in other disciplines.

I'm old remember, I can't keep up with all this modern stuff. I think I'll boil up another cup of coffee, throw some 78's on the Victrola and relax with a little Glenn Miller. :fred:


Jack

Fred beat me to it but he types faster by misspelling everything. :whistling:

F106 Fan
02-01-2012, 14:16
I will look in to precision delta and wsf. Is it worth my time to buy a couple small quantity packages locally, or just pick up a couple thousand online and have at it?

Thanks for the note about the brass.

When you buy primers or powder online, there is a hazmat fee that is usually $25. I think the primers and powder ship separately (but I'm not sure) so it could be $50. Therefore, you need to buy a BUNCH to make it worthwhile.

If you can find primers and powder locally, buy 1000 primers ($35?) and a pound of powder ($25). This will get you started.

Same for the bullets, buy 100 of each. While you are at it, buy the loading manual for the bullets you bought. Check to be certain the manual has a load for the bullet/powder combination before you purchase it.

Once you get that first 100 done, you will have a better feel for the process. Also, if you make a mistake, you won't have 1000 duplicates.

Richard

ron59
02-01-2012, 14:24
Jack is covering the blanket statement of heavier bullets have less recoil than lighter bullets. Only if you load the light ones up hot & the heavy ones soft. I get a bit softer 170PF load using 200gr in my 45 than 230gr.:dunno:

I don't think that's fair. The numbers I throw out are NOT considering hot SD ammo, but more typical "range" ammo.
1120-1150fps for a 115gr round is typical velocity.
What would you say is typical 147gr velocity that isn't NATO or SD? I'd say 900fps to 920fps maybe. I don't call that "soft" for the heavier round.

Create 10 rounds of each of those. Put them in a magazine, alternating one, then the other. I suggest this, as if you shoot all of one, then all of the other, it's tougher to compare. But do it alternating... the heavier is going to be softer. I'm not sure how well it were to work if you were to bump up to say 950fps... but that's fairly fast for a non-SD round. In fact, I'd bet that if I ran those Speer Gold Dots (that they advertise at 985fps), I'd bet they're closer to 950 out of my G17.

No... 920fps is NOT "soft". Sorry, I'm not buying the argument.

Power Factor might be a new concept, but I really think it's an excellent way of comparing ammo of different bullet weights.

unclebob
02-01-2012, 14:52
Ron the only numbers I can give you with the powder and charge that I use are.
For 9mm with a 135gr X-treme bullet 920FPS
45acp with 200gr X-treme bullet 820FPS.
I just started trying using the 185gr for the 45acp and have not chronograph any loads yet. I use them for the 45gap and they run at 820FPS.
First I check for accuracy of the rounds and that it will function with at least 12 rounds in the magazine with a stock gun. Also if I like the recoil that it produces? After that is if I fill like setting up the chronograph for gee whiz.
Since the OP said on his first post that it was just for punching holes in paper without any games. No PF involved and the 200gr bullets are still cheaper than 230gr bullets.
The only game I play is GSSF and it has no PF. If it did then I would do the PF game and bump up the loads.

Colorado4Wheel
02-01-2012, 14:58
Ron, I agree with you a hundred percent but there seems to be a lot of newbs that don't understand the difference and believe that heavier bullets produce less recoil.

I think they actually are just not saying it right. They will say Heavier Bullets have less recoil vs lighter bullets. It's pretty much understood they are talking about either loaded to the same Power Factor or loaded to a similiar "Mid Range" load. You can't even load 9mm to the same FPS using 115 gr and 147 gr properly. The 115 gr won't cycle the gun at 900 fps and the 147 gr would be wildly over pressure at 1100fps with most loads.

fredj338
02-02-2012, 00:26
I'm old remember, I can't keep up with all this modern stuff. I think I'll boil up another cup of coffee, throw some 78's on the Victrola and relax with a little Glenn Miller. :fred:


Jack

Fred beat me to it but he types faster by misspelling everything. :whistling:

It's only misspelling if you don't know how to spell. Typing, now taht si a qhole nohtre stroy.:supergrin:

fredj338
02-02-2012, 00:30
I don't think that's fair. The numbers I throw out are NOT considering hot SD ammo, but more typical "range" ammo.
1120-1150fps for a 115gr round is typical velocity.
What would you say is typical 147gr velocity that isn't NATO or SD? I'd say 900fps to 920fps maybe. I don't call that "soft" for the heavier round.

Create 10 rounds of each of those. Put them in a magazine, alternating one, then the other. I suggest this, as if you shoot all of one, then all of the other, it's tougher to compare. But do it alternating... the heavier is going to be softer. I'm not sure how well it were to work if you were to bump up to say 950fps... but that's fairly fast for a non-SD round. In fact, I'd bet that if I ran those Speer Gold Dots (that they advertise at 985fps), I'd bet they're closer to 950 out of my G17. No... 920fps is NOT "soft". Sorry, I'm not buying the argument.

Power Factor might be a new concept, but I really think it's an excellent way of comparing ammo of different bullet weights.

There, you answered your own question. I think there isn't much diff between a 950fps/147gr & a 1200fps 115gr, but I am not a 9mm enthusiast, to me they all shoot soft. In 45acp, there is a noticeable diff in recoil between say 230grXTP @ 200grXTP factory Hornady. WHy I like the 200gr loads in my 1911PD. I think it just depends, not a blanket statement acrosss the caliber spectrum. Maybe for high pressure rds it is so, but not so much for low pressure rds IMO.