G17 vs 92FS in my target shooting [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ithaca_deerslayer
02-01-2012, 21:01
Beretta 92FS is my favorite gun to shoot. I've had it for a couple decades.
Glock 17 G4 is a couple months new to me, but I've had a 26 for a long time.

Nice weather today so decided to shoot them side by side. Walked 200 yards to the end of my pasture, across only light snow for this time of year. Set up my target and shot 5 rounds each, 25 yards, standing 2 handed, unrested. Then trudged back.

I need to shoot more, but here's the results. I might be pushing the Glock group up and left (I'm right handed), so I'm not moving the sights yet. The Beretta is dead on for me, but I'm getting a bit sloppy in my old age, at least there's a flyer on both sides :)

Any thoughts? Not sure if any experts can read the tea leaves of those patterns.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7007/6804321393_1e0ce50f95.jpg

UPDATED with another target pic posted farther into the thread at post #30 (with the Glock sight adjusted).

bac1023
02-01-2012, 21:03
That's actually not bad shooting standing at 25 yards.

Tim151515
02-01-2012, 21:14
Nice twist on the Glock vs Beretta thing. Both excelent guns, my dads got a 92 and I have a Glock, and some good shooting from 25 yards too.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-01-2012, 21:17
That's actually not bad shooting standing at 25 yards.

Thanks it was actually that recent post where someone was asking how accurate Glocks are that got me curious. I would have thought I could have beat it with the Beretta.

The other day my wife shot better with the 17 over her EMP at about 10 yards, too, as she's been thinking about getting a 19 for her birthday present.

Guess I better get back out there this weekend to uphold the Beretta honor :)

bac1023
02-01-2012, 21:34
Thanks it was actually that recent post where someone was asking how accurate Glocks are that got me curious. I would have thought I could have beat it with the Beretta.

The other day my wife shot better with the 17 over her EMP at about 10 yards, too, as she's been thinking about getting a 19 for her birthday present.

Guess I better get back out there this weekend to uphold the Beretta honor :)

I really don't feel the standard 92 is much if at all more accurate than most Glocks. :dunno:

I don't shoot either of those pistols all that great.

craig19
02-01-2012, 21:37
Two great guns, nice shooting.

RWBlue
02-01-2012, 22:08
One of these days I will take my G17 G3 and 92FS out to the range and try the same thing.


BTW, I hate that you can walk out in the back yard and shoot. I don't have a good range where I can do these test right now.

WarEagle32
02-01-2012, 22:16
I like the 17 better than the 92. The 92 is a bit overpriced to me and I dont like the grip.

Ironbar
02-01-2012, 22:17
My thought is, why are you practicing shooting at targets that are 25 YARDS away from you? 94% of all self defense shootings occur between one and 18 FEET.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-01-2012, 22:27
My thought is, why are you practicing shooting at targets that are 25 YARDS away from you? 94% of all self defense shootings occur between one and 18 FEET.

Oh, this was for only that 6%

But seriously, I do shoot up close too, in IDPA, for example. And I got the 17 for those kinds of fun.

But to see the holes spread out a bit, 25 yards works nicely :)

mdfd
02-01-2012, 22:45
was your first shot out of the Beretta 92FS a DA shot? Pretty good shooting for both for 25 yards/free standing

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
02-02-2012, 06:25
I like the 17 better than the 92. The 92 is a bit overpriced to me and I dont like the grip.

Granted, many gunshops charge $575 or the 92FS, but at Houston area gunshows, they are $499-$510 new. Not over priced at all.

As for grouping. I have read many magazine reviews over the years that get 2-2.5" groups out of a 92 at 25 yards

ithaca_deerslayer
02-02-2012, 06:40
was your first shot out of the Beretta 92FS a DA shot? Pretty good shooting for both for 25 yards/free standing

No, I cheated on that :)

MajorD
02-02-2012, 09:40
ironbar- not everything done with a pistol is about defense- yes I carry and defensive shooting is obviously important- but if you can hit at long range close becomes much easier- the reverse is definitely not true- I've seen plenty of run and gun ipsc track stars who can race through a course double tapping 5-7 yard targets in a flash be faced with one 25 yard target and not be able to neutralize with an entire mag.
I used the Beretta a long time (25+ years military including a number of years on a military shooting team) and will say as a general rule the beretta is more inherently accurate than the glock. I will say deerslayer that your 25 yard glock group looks pretty darn good. If you shoot ten more groups just like that one that land in the same spot on target, the solution is to tap your rear sight in the dovetail to the right a bit.

ashecht
02-02-2012, 09:47
For pure distance accuracy my 92fs beats my 19,my26, and my 23. Although the beretta is not very practical for CCW. As for pricing, I got my Italian inox with about 50 rounds through it for $525 shipped which I thought was a great deal. It may be too big and heavy for a 9mm, but I love shooting it, and it's a damn nice looking gun

ithaca_deerslayer
02-02-2012, 10:15
ironbar- not everything done with a pistol is about defense- yes I carry and defensive shooting is obviously important- but if you can hit at long range close becomes much easier- the reverse is definitely not true- I've seen plenty of run and gun ipsc track stars who can race through a course double tapping 5-7 yard targets in a flash be faced with one 25 yard target and not be able to neutralize with an entire mag.
I used the Beretta a long time (25+ years military including a number of years on a military shooting team) and will say as a general rule the beretta is more inherently accurate than the glock. I will say deerslayer that your 25 yard glock group looks pretty darn good. If you shoot ten more groups just like that one that land in the same spot on target, the solution is to tap your rear sight in the dovetail to the right a bit.

Yes, I think you are right. If I get the chance, and weather is good (hopefully this weekend), I'll run 4 targets each of the 17 and the 92, 5 shots each, 25 yards standing. All with Federal 124gr American Eagle.

Won't be pretty. Endurance is a factor. Got to relax, breathe out a few times, focus. I'll report back with the average group size for each gun. But I'll probably only post the best group for each :) (Above, I only shot one group each gun, and that's what you see).

10 targets each would be better, but not at the same time. Fatigue will set in. I guess I could try it and see, but I'll only commit to 4 targets each, right now :tongueout:

Not gonna bench, I'll save that for some other day. Always nice to see what a gun can do, and I've benched plenty over the years. But in a sense it doesn't have any relation to how you generally shoot in the field, hunting, IDPA, bowling pins, showing off to uncle Bob, possible self-defense, and general skills :rofl:

I gotta say, I really like the 17. I like the Beretta, too, but admit that traditional double-action and slide mounted thumb safety have their drawbacks. Of course, reholstering a Glock has to be an extra careful event.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-02-2012, 10:19
For pure distance accuracy my 92fs beats my 19,my26, and my 23. Although the beretta is not very practical for CCW.

That's similar to what I find, especially once I decided to go hot chamber and no thumb safeties in all my carry guns.

The surprising thing to me is how well the 17 shoots, compared to the 92 which I adore for shooting.

Maybe one of these days, BAC will come over bringing his best 1911 for me to try :)

Road Dog
02-02-2012, 10:30
If you can score hits at 25 for the 6% should should be really accurate for the other 94%.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-02-2012, 10:49
BTW, I hate that you can walk out in the back yard and shoot. I don't have a good range where I can do these test right now.

While I could hypothetically shoot 200 yards, I've got an 80 yard range at the back of my pasture, where I'm outside the fence and no crosstrails. Shoots slightly downward and woods behind it rises slightly uphill, all on my property, and no houses or roads behind me for a couple miles :)

I find rural Upstate NY a pretty nice place to live. But gotta admit that anytime I'm elsewhere in the US and say NY, people immediately think NYC.

Also a member of a local club with a 300 yard range.

That's all important stuff, when searching for a place to live, as far as quality of life goes :)

hardbargin
02-02-2012, 10:56
My thought is, why are you practicing shooting at targets that are 25 YARDS away from you? 94% of all self defense shootings occur between one and 18 FEET.

i shoot fast at 25 yds all the time, like in a actual life or death situation.
my thinking being, if i can hit at 25yds then i have no worry at 18 ft.:embarassed:

grecco
02-02-2012, 10:58
Great guns,
the beretta is one of the most battle proven pistols and the glock is police proven.

BBJones
02-02-2012, 11:09
My thought is, why are you practicing shooting at targets that are 25 YARDS away from you? 94% of all self defense shootings occur between one and 18 FEET.

Yikes!

i shoot fast at 25 yds all the time, like in a actual life or death situation.
my thinking being, if i can hit at 25yds then i have no worry at 18 ft.:embarassed:

You are correct.

wanderinwalker
02-02-2012, 12:05
I'd say looks good. Based on overall group size, you shoot the Glock better!

My experience indicates it's not that the Glock suffers from any accuracy issues, but people shooting Glocks that suffer from accuracy issues. Apply the proper fundamentals of front sight and trigger squeeze, and the Glock is as good as any service semi-auto. It's just that the light, short SA triggers on Berettas, SIGs, 3rd Gen S&Ws, etc mask alot of the bad habits most handgunners have.

(Aside, I'm 95% certain the reason most shooters say "revolvers are more accurate than semi-autos" is because they can thumb cock a DA revolver and shoot it SA. While my S&W 19 is more mechanically accurate than my G-17, if I lopped the hammer spur off and handed each one to an average shooter, the Glock would magically be the more accurate of the two... :crying: )

Good luck with your extended shooting review! I may have to go put up a silhouette at 50-yds and pop a couple of magazines at it with my G-17 this weekend. :whistling:

Brazos
02-02-2012, 12:31
Though you wouldn't think it from looking at them Glocks are a very accurate combat handgun. They must have a pretty decent barrel. Occasionaly a gun mag will have a Glock write up and the accuracy is always a cut above all other pistols in a similiar price range. The Berretta 92 is similiar in this regaurd. Pretty good match up.

arclight610
02-02-2012, 12:53
In my experiences, I find the 92 to be a bit more accurate than the Glock. With a Marine Corps 25 yd pistol qual target, I can drill out the center of the black with a Beretta. Using a Glock, they are still all in the black but alot more spread out.

frontier2011
02-02-2012, 15:32
Thanks it was actually that recent post where someone was asking how accurate Glocks are that got me curious. I would have thought I could have beat it with the Beretta. ............ :)

For some strange reason I have never understood the question

'Is a glock accurate?'

squiddie545
02-02-2012, 15:44
2 classic firearms. I've shot the 92FS a lot in the service. Lately, I have been shooting a Glock 22 with a 9mm conversion and i have been shooting this much more accurately.

thanks for sharing.

40 0'Glock
02-02-2012, 20:37
I'm much more accurate with my 92 than my Glock. All Berettas I've shot have been very accurate.

gocubs6
02-03-2012, 17:25
Oh, this was for only that 6%

:)
Touche!! Ha!

ithaca_deerslayer
02-04-2012, 17:25
Ok, 28F out today, but not much snow. Four 5-shot groups with the 17g4, and four 5-shot groups with the 92fs. Same as before, 2 handed, standing, 25 yards. But I did move the Glock sight first.

Glock average group size = 3.656 inches
Best group = 2.875

Beretta average group size = 4.688 inches
Best group = 4.500

Here are my best groups. It seems I'm doing better with the Glock, but I still have hope to get my Beretta under 4".

Funny thing I noticed is I was liking the Glock trigger better, because it allows me to sneek up on the break as the finger pressure builds. But the Beretta single action trigger is like a solid wall that is hard to nudge past. Both are stock, and the Beretta trigger is lighter than the Glock, but also more abrupt.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7151/6819399221_5e0bc75906_b.jpg

tooomey
02-04-2012, 17:44
For some strange reason I have never understood the question

'Is a glock accurate?'

Most guns out there will out shoot there owners!

i shoot fast at 25 yds all the time, like in a actual life or death situation.
my thinking being, if i can hit at 25yds then i have no worry at 18 ft.:embarassed:

Unless you are in the Military and are in a third world county You shoot anybody at that distance your going to Jail!

Nice shooting with two nice guns.

RWBlue
02-04-2012, 17:53
Unless you are in the Military and are in a third world county You shoot anybody at that distance your going to Jail!

It really depends on where you are and what the other guy is using.

tooomey
02-04-2012, 18:22
It really depends on where you are and what the other guy is using.

:rofl: Ya right! Not sure about laws in hillbilly states but sense the OP lives in NY he will be Jailed.

RWBlue
02-04-2012, 20:35
:rofl: Ya right! Not sure about laws in hillbilly states but sense the OP lives in NY he will be Jailed.

I don't know about you, but if someone is shooting at me and mine, I plan on shooting back and killing them.

What's your plan?

tooomey
02-04-2012, 22:14
I don't know about you, but if someone is shooting at me and mine, I plan on shooting back and killing them.

What's your plan?

Im not saying you wont shoot at someone and TRY and kill them but if you did get lucky enough to hit them. You will be in jail too then! Why would you shoot at someone 75ft away? Im not even sure you could get in an argument 75ft away from someone! Why would someone shoot at you from 75ft away unless there were drive by shooting? 90% of confrontations happen within less 15 ft. Not saying you its bad to shoot targets from distance but its not necessary for defense shooting.

cole
02-04-2012, 23:56
I like the Beretta 92FS a lot. It's a buttery-smooth shooting 9mm. I like the Beretta 92FS more than the Glock. I shoot the Glock 17 more consistenly. I'd choose the gun I shoot better. That's the Glock. I only choose the Glock because it's cheap, it works and I shoot it well. There are many guns I like more, but don't shoot as well. The Beretta 92FS is one of them.

RWBlue
02-05-2012, 10:19
Im not saying you wont shoot at someone and TRY and kill them but if you did get lucky enough to hit them. You will be in jail too then! Why would you shoot at someone 75ft away? Im not even sure you could get in an argument 75ft away from someone! Why would someone shoot at you from 75ft away unless there were drive by shooting? 90% of confrontations happen within less 15 ft. Not saying you its bad to shoot targets from distance but its not necessary for defense shooting.

As a defender, if someone is shooting at me and I shoot them, it is self defense no matter what the distance. Now there are limits when running away is a better tactical decision, but 75 feet is not that far of distance that I can think of places where running away would not be an option. The first place that comes to mind is a hall way at work. For the OP on the farm, I remember when two stories of people taking a rifle to shoot the land owners. First was the guys with the SKS hunting in Minnesota. The other is a guy trying to rob the land owners house and the land owner was pinned down by a guy with a 22LR until another neighbor figured out what was going on and shot the criminal.

As the attacker, why not shoot someone from longer distances if you know you can make hits? A pistol is a weapon of defense. A rifle is a weapon of attack. If I am playing red team, you are toast if you can not make hit at 75 feet and beyond.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-05-2012, 10:50
I went back out today to try and uphold the honor of the Beretta. Best I could do was a 4" group. I guess the Glock wins :)

I checked my records and I have some 2" Beretta groups a few years ago with different ammo. I doubt the ammo explains it. Maybe some lucky past groups, but mostly my skills have likely diminished (eyes not as young, hands not as steady). So it only matters where I'm at today, and hope I don't get any worse :)

Still I'll bench test the ammo on some nice day.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-05-2012, 10:56
While out today, I decided to shoot one group with my carry gun I had on me, Glock 26 loaded with Gold Dots.

4.375" group, as good as I'm shooting my fullsize Beretta! But unlike some others, I can't shoot my baby Glock as well as the fullsize Glock.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7012/6823802269_dca18a420f_b.jpg

tooomey
02-05-2012, 13:12
As a defender, if someone is shooting at me and I shoot them, it is self defense no matter what the distance. Now there are limits when running away is a better tactical decision, but 75 feet is not that far of distance that I can think of places where running away would not be an option. The first place that comes to mind is a hall way at work. For the OP on the farm, I remember when two stories of people taking a rifle to shoot the land owners. First was the guys with the SKS hunting in Minnesota. The other is a guy trying to rob the land owners house and the land owner was pinned down by a guy with a 22LR until another neighbor figured out what was going on and shot the criminal.

As the attacker, why not shoot someone from longer distances if you know you can make hits? A pistol is a weapon of defense. A rifle is a weapon of attack. If I am playing red team, you are toast if you can not make hit at 75 feet and beyond.

Not sure what the laws are in the state you live in and honestly this debate has gone on a bit to long and really has nothing to do with the Op's original post. Sorry OP. But in NY or where I live you will be in Jail in both those instances that you described. Unless your in 100ft hall with no escape and the perp just starts shooting at you. Unless your a police officer and it sounds like your not you can't shoot someone in the back if hes shooting at your neighbor. Most likley You are toast against a rifle period. Hope you have a good lawyer! And have a good day. :supergrin:

motorcyclist
02-05-2012, 13:40
I have found about all of my firearms inherently more accurate than me. Use the benchrest lane at the range and my PF9 will deliver surprisingly small groups. I shot nothing but Glocks for semi-auto for years and thought myself a pretty good shot with my latest, a G23 with 9mm conversion barrel. Bought a Beretta PX4 compact and was all over the place. A few hundred rounds later and I was shooting the PX4 more accuratley. I think it's the better grip feel and crisp SA trigger it has. Just bought a 92FS compact and shot it better then the PX4 the first time I picked it up! The big 92 grip agrees with me, I'm used to the DA/SA trigger now and the 3 dot sights being very close together all helped me to shot it well. I have almost always found poor accuracy to be the shooter, not what's being shot.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-05-2012, 17:54
. . . I have almost always found poor accuracy to be the shooter, not what's being shot.

Oh I definitely agree.

This little test of mine is only about which gun is working better in my hands :)

But others might find it similar to their own experiences in how well the Gock 17 shoots :)