new hunting rifle [Archive] - Glock Talk

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shaggy255
03-07-2003, 22:25
alredy have a rem 270 and feel it may be to much for under 100 yards. any suggestions on something else ( maybe just a excuse to get another gun )

shaggy255
03-07-2003, 22:27
i will be hunting deer in MO

bustedknee
03-08-2003, 00:02
Under 100 yards?

Get a Marlin 45-70. Fun, Fun, Fun, and you won't believe how deadly.

mpol777
03-08-2003, 02:05
i don't think you'll be over powering with a .270. but, if you "need" a new gun a .243, or any other 6mm, would be a good add on. anything over 85gr will drop anything but the biggest bucks like right now. my uncle has been using one pushing 95gr bullets and to my knowledge has never had to chase one yet.

hoagie55
03-08-2003, 19:16
A .243 or 6mm would be a fine addition and so would a 45-70, I've heard they are a lot of fun to shoot.

smeet5150
03-08-2003, 19:52
a .223 would work with a good load, and you can find plinking ammo cheap as hell.

Pat S
03-10-2003, 22:08
270's hard to beat for deer at any reasonable range. If you're looking for a short-range gun you might want to look at a lever action .30-30. Light recoil, fun to shoot, inexpensive to buy, and very effective on deer-sized game. Good used ones that will increase in value over time are also still readily available.

Pat

jamieray
03-11-2003, 10:54
308

10mmGuy
03-11-2003, 11:07
C'mon whats wrong with you guys? And on Glocktalk for heavens sake! He's lookin for a gun that will work well out to about 100yds and no one mentioned the G20?;T

Seriously you might want to consider handgun hunting. It's a blast! I've been using my 10mm's for about 4 years now and never had so much fun. It's a great challenge and sounds like just the ticket for what you are looking for. Take the .270 but strap on a 20 as well. If one comes in within your comfortable range blast 'em.
;8 ;I

Rebeldon
03-11-2003, 22:50
Marlin 1894 PG .44 Rem Mag. Also very deadly! But it holds up to 10 .44 mag cartridges, and is perfect for home defense too. It also shoot .44 Special (better suited for home defense) with higher capicity.

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/images/firearmImages/1894PG.jpg

g21glock
03-29-2003, 06:30
My best friends dad and one of his buddies goes to Mo. every year, and his buddy takes an m-1 carbine, killed one with it every year for longer than Ive been alive. He swears by it.
You could have a hunting/SHTF/fun range gun all in one. I love my m-1 carbine, though I use my Weatherby Accumark for hunting detail.

Safe shooting

Cheezwarrior
03-31-2003, 00:06
As has already been suggested, lever actions are great guns for shorter range hunting. I wish that I never got rid of my 30-30. They also tend to be smaller and better suited for areas with heavy cover.

I am going to start handgun hunting as well. I already bring my G22 with me whenever I go just for S&G, but am looking for something bigger for hunting. There's just something about pistols that I like.:cool:

Good luck with your search and happy hunting!

spetsnaz777
04-02-2003, 00:03
Kar98 Mauser in 7.92x57mm:)

glockster96
04-02-2003, 23:52
Originally posted by smeet5150
a .223 would work with a good load, and you can find plinking ammo cheap as hell.

The only problem with a .223 is that it is illegal for deer in certain jurisdictions (like KS).

.243 is a very good choice.

MarksGlock22
04-03-2003, 15:41
.45-70.That would be fun for under 100 yards.;f

JHill
04-04-2003, 10:39
I would look at the Rem. Model 7 in possibly the 7mm08 rnd.
Light, fast, flat, and hard hitting.

I have on in .308 and it's the cat's meow.

Marty_G19
04-11-2003, 21:54
Definetly look into the 7mm-08 round. Light guns, with low recoil, and plenty of knockdown power. I'd definitely choose the 7mm-08 over the .243. Many deer every year are wounded with this caliber. It is barely adequate, please choose something else.

My son and I lost a small buck last fall shot with his .243, would have been his first deer. The 95grain ballistic tip round we were using apparently exploded on the surface and did not penetrate. It was a 20 yard broadside shot, from a sitting position with the aid of a bi-pod!! I know he did NOT miss. Although it could have been simply a bullet choice problem, if I were doing it over again I'd go for the 7mm-08. We are NOT using ballistic tips for deer again ever.

Good Luck!!

Conrad
04-12-2003, 05:11
You have a lot of choices, The Modle seven would be nice and the are a bunch to choose from. If it were me, I would go with either a handgun for shot shots ( I really want a G20, or I woupld get a 44) or a Marlin guide gun in 45-70. Could also get a lever action in 44 and a revolver to go with it.

paynter2
04-20-2003, 20:56
My son and I lost a small buck last fall shot with his .243, would have been his first deer. The 95grain ballistic tip round we were using apparently exploded on the surface and did not penetrate. It was a 20 yard broadside shot, from a sitting position with the aid of a bi-pod!! I know he did NOT miss.

He missed - maybe hit a twig and deflected, but he did not hit the deer. The bullit did not 'explode' on impact.

I've shot dozens of bucks with a 6mm Rem - very similar to a .243 winchester. I've used 85 gr. hollow points and 100 gr. power points. I've never had a deer run more the 10 yards - with a fatal shot.

I don't remember ever loosing a buck with my 6mm. They have a little less energy than the 7mm-08. The .243 case is the same as a 7mm-08 - as the .308. Your son missed the shot.

I once watched my brother shoot at a buck with his 30-06 at about the same distance as your son. The buck ran just as your son's. My brother swore he hit the deer. But, we found no blood or hair. We did find a small willow stalk that had been hit by the bullit. My brother missed just as your son missed.

I've shot deer with a .270, .280, .284, .308, 30-06, 32Win Special, .243, and 6mm Rem. I use my 6mm Rem now exclusively. The bullit never exits the deer - it uses up 100% of its energy on the beast. I've shot 4 deer with it that weighed over 200# dressed. One of them went over 220#. I popped him in the lungs - he ran about 4 yards and dropped dead. .243/6mm is plenty for deer.

lomfs24
04-22-2003, 11:07
Since we are on Glock Talk I feel obligated to mention the G20 as well. I recently converted my G22 to a .357 sig. That round makes that little gun come to life. Enough with the silly talk. LOL No offense. I have gone handgun hunting alot.
No one seems to want to shoot anything smaller than a 6mm (243 etc...) And only a couple of people have mentioned a .223. Along with that you could also mention 220 Swift, 22-250 and all of them are smaller close range shells that will reach out to a couple hundred yards if need be. Not a lot of wasted meat either.
I have even gone one step farther. For the past 5 years I have shot a .17 Remingtion. Yup. I have never had a deer take a step from where he was shot and obviously have never lost one either. It is only a 25 grain hollow point shell but it is traveling 4100 fps at the muzzle (give or take). There is about as much recoil as a .22LR so you can litterally do surgery out to about 350 yards. It shoots flat as a table top to about that range, very little arch. At about 350 yards it runs out of steam and falls flat on it's face. It's a great close range deer gun.

Trap kid
04-22-2003, 15:09
Get a Marlin 30-30, they are fun, accurate, powerful, compact, simple, ect. I also would consider a good handgun, maybe a ruger superblackhawk or BFR. either way you cant go wrong.

MrMurphy
04-23-2003, 21:40
A Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun...... if you don't hit the deer, you'll give him a heart attack as it goes by. ;f



More realistically, a Marlin 336SS (stainless) .30-30. With Express Sight Systems Ghost ring sights, you'll nail the deer dead.

lomfs24
04-24-2003, 00:39
Originally posted by Marty_G19
Definetly look into the 7mm-08 round. Light guns, with low recoil, and plenty of knockdown power. I'd definitely choose the 7mm-08 over the .243. Many deer every year are wounded with this caliber. It is barely adequate, please choose something else.

My son and I lost a small buck last fall shot with his .243, would have been his first deer. The 95grain ballistic tip round we were using apparently exploded on the surface and did not penetrate. It was a 20 yard broadside shot, from a sitting position with the aid of a bi-pod!! I know he did NOT miss. Although it could have been simply a bullet choice problem, if I were doing it over again I'd go for the 7mm-08. We are NOT using ballistic tips for deer again ever.

Good Luck!!
Couple of flaws with your comment. .243 is plenty if not over for a deer. Period. I have seen antelope taken at well over 500 yards with a 243. I personally know and have seen an Alaskan Moose taken with a 243. And while a 7mm-08 will kill a deer at 20 yards it will also open up a hole in him the size of a coffee can. And if you hit anywhere near the front quarters one half of a deer will be blood shot.
Second, ballistic tips do not explode on impact. They are designed to mushroom to a size that is most adequate for big game animals. You would have a greater chance of a bullet exploding on impact if it was a hollow point and even then the cartridge would have to be severely over loaded.
Third, Son, first deer, 20 yards broadside, shot, no dead deer... I smell something hot, something like buck fever. It is a common occurance with first time and new hunters. The only cure I know is to take two beers and try agian in the morning.
Better luck next year.

Marty_G19
04-24-2003, 11:38
paynter2 & lomfs24,

Sorry guys, I was right next to him. I'll give you a little more information.

The deer ran off on three legs, holding up the near side left front shoulder exactly where my son shot him. We found blood and hair at the impact point, and blood trailed the deer for half a mile before loosing the trail. It is certainly possible that there was an impact with a branch or twig that caused the bullet to fragment or deflect before impact, but I saw no evidence of it.

Buck fever is a possibility, he may have placed the bullet to far forward, but I don't think so. He'd passed on a 50 yard shot at a much larger buck the previous weekend because he couldn't get steady and on target to make a good clean kill. He took almost a full minute to get setup and take the shot, he did not rush, he took his time, plus he had the bi-pod for the second opportunity.

Also, we'd been doing bullet placement, and shot / no shot discussions over pictures in magazines for months before the season opened. He'd mark the pictures with a pen for his aiming point, and then we'd discuss his decision.

He can place every round in a 5 inch circle at 100 yards, which is not a tight group for sure, but he's only 10. You internet jockey's who neither know me or my son, and did NOT have all the information, are very quick to judge.

Now to some of the specifics.

lomfs24, ballistic tips ARE MADE TO FRAGMENT and expend all of the bullets energy in the deer. We have since switched to Core Lokt bullets which are made to stay together and mushroom, but continue to penetrate.

paynter2, you've used 85 gr. hollow points and 100 gr. power points, neither of these are ballistic tips, they again, are made to stay together and mushroom, but continue to penetrate, which I've decided is a better way to go. I selected the ballistic tips on the recommendation of a friend, I'll use them for 'yotes, but never again on deer.

Also, here is a quote from a magazine article regarding ballistic tip bullets,

"... the basic goal is still rapid, violent expansion--so how well it penetrates depends on impact velocity (which relates to shooting distance) ..."

Here's the link to the article:
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/ammunition/plastic_fantastic/

My supposition is, and subsequent to the fact, have seen articles relating to this exact ballistic tip bullet failure mode, that due to the very close range the bullet expanded too rapidly and did not penetrate, due to the high velocity on impact.

Finally, I believe the 7mm-08 is a superior round to either the 6mm or 243, and no more over kill than my 30-06, or any of a half a dozen other even larger rounds that are used for deer all across the country. With the correct bullets there has never been any "coffee can" effect with my 30-06, so why would there be with a 7mm-08 which is smaller round in case you didn't know. I always shoot for the heart and lungs, and have never ruined either front shoulder using my -06.

lomfs24
04-24-2003, 13:03
I was a little quick to judge. But based on your first comment I would still have to say "Buck Fever". Based on your second post I would have to retract my opinion. Sorry.
As far as 7mm-08 being too large or too small, I will not argue with you. It is a matter of personal choice. I will just say it is way larger than what I would or currently use.

The ballistic tip debate; I will still continue to, with all due respect, differ with you. I could write an article too that says that FMJ bullets have rapid expansion and splatter on impact and base that on some test shots that I did. I could even provide photos of splattered bullets. What I might neglect to mention in the article would be that the "target" was a 6" thick steel plate.

Here is a quote from Noslers website:

1. The Ballistic Tip® Hunting bullet's polycarbonate tip resists deformation in the magazine and initiates expansion upon impact.

2. Fully tapered jacket and special lead alloy core allows controlled expansion and optimum weight retention at all practical velocity levels.

3. Heavy jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushroom.

4. Ballistically engineered Solid Base® boat tail configuration combines with the streamlined polycarbonate tip for extreme long range performance.

Link: http://www.nosler.com/balltiphunt.html

No where does it say anything about fragmentation. It does however mention "controlled expansion at all practical velocities".

I would agree that there are some ballistic tip bullets that are designed to have rapid violent expansion but they are not marketed under the "Hunting Bullet" name.

That takes me back to the "test" I did earlier with the FMJ. I could test with one of these other ballistic tip bullets and then apply the test results to all ballistic tip ammo. I will continue to repectfully disagree with you on ballistic tips being unfit for hunting.

Never the less, hunting can be a fun and enjoyable sport for both you and your son. I hope you will find a combination that will meet your needs. And for the sake of your son, I hope he kills "the big one" next year. That would be the best experience for you, watching your sons face as you are walking up to that monster whitetail laying on the ground. Good luck next year.

Let me say one more thing in regards to magazine articles that you read then I will close this rambling comment. Magazine articles are written by people with opinions. Magazines don't make money from your measly $25 subscription. They make money from the scores of advertisments in the magazine. Magazine editors, therefore, publish articles with that in mind and they publish, both good and bad, articles based on who advertises, how much they advertise, and who doesn't advertise. Articles are not as objective as one might be lead to believe.

AND.... If he does have buck fever, my perscription still stands, (since he is young) take two root beers and try again in the morning.
;c

Marty_G19
04-24-2003, 14:42
Lomfs24,

Thanks for your comments. My son does indeed like root beer, and we've got another year to practice for the shot at the big one!!

It just kills me that he lost his 1st one like that, and I'm probably a bit over sensitive about it. I've really analyzed this and talked to many guys here in TN. There is a mixed bag of results here, especially in the pairing of a .243 with a BT bullet. I'm just going to use something more proven next year, as far as bullet design.


Here's a link you might enjoy seeing about the 7mm-08:

http://members.tripod.com/sed88/rem7/

Thanks again.

lomfs24
04-24-2003, 15:35
I enjoy haveing an intelligent debate with anyone who does not get mad and spout unreasonable drivel. Hat's off to you. I understand your reasoning on not shooting BT's in the future. I am in no way saying they are the only thing to shoot. But saying they explode on impact may not be totally correct either. Your's may have. And if it did there is probably a host of reasons why it did. A different bullet design, a faulty design, a faulty bullet it's self, a twig may have started the expansion early, the wind, the rain, the tilt of the earth, Mars was not aligned with Jupiter correctly, etc... But to make a blanket statement about a particular bullet design may not be correct.

I really do hope that you do well next year. I didn't lose my first deer I shot, or any deer come to think of it, but I have lost elk. I know how sickening and disappointing that can be. Espescially for a newer hunter like your son. We would all like to think that in the perfect world we would all have one shot stops, instant kills on animals but from time to time that isn't really the reality. Make sure he know's that, and I am sure he already does. Tell him to suck it up, suck down a root beer, and try harder next year.

Although many of us wouldn't have done passed it up, I have to tip my hat to him for not taking a 50 yard shot that he wasn't comfortable with. That's gotta come from good training from dad.

I always like to hear of father/son hunting trips. Some of my fondest memories of early years were with my dad, hunting and guns. I learned early how guns work, I learned to shoot young and I learned to not fear, but respect all guns.

lomfs24
04-24-2003, 15:52
In that article you linked to it mentioned several times Nosler Partition bullets and Barnes X bullets. I have also had extremely good luck with both of those. And both of them do offer slower expansion and increased penetration. If I were you I would do a little research on the Barnes X before loading though. From what I understand the bullet composition is slightly lighter than lead/copper combo so to get the weight they are a little longer. Which in turn increases the bearing surface on barrel creating higher pressures. I believe they recommend shooting a slightly lighter load. I may be wrong in this though, it has been a few years since I shot them. And I loaded them as though they were regular bullets with no harm done.

Goods luck

paynter2
04-24-2003, 15:55
Marty - I too feel for your son - and you. I remember trailing a big buck for my brother once. He found blood, hair, even saw the animal go down. As it turned out - I believe he hit it high in the back - over the back bone. He wanted that buck sooooo bad. I think he still feels in his heart that he should have gotten it - he deserves it. He was probably 30 when this happened. I can just imagine how your son feels.

As far as BTs go. I shot a lot of bucks with a 85gr. Sierra HPBT (6mm Rem). Man it hit hard. But, I was using it on a field stand. I wouldn't like to use it in the woods.

I actually started hunting with my .32 Win special. I'd shoot, hear the bullet splat, and watch the deer drop. As I got older, I got a 30-06. I'd shoot, watch the deer run and find it 50 or 75 yards away. It finally dawned on me that the bullet was going thru the deer and energy was being lost a tree or something on the other side. So, I started shooting smaller calibres and started to see bucks drop again.

Having said that - I wouldn't recommend a .243 for you son again. He absolutely has to have confidence in what he is shooting - just like you or me. We would never use a gun or calibre that we don't have faith in. Get him a good 7mm-08. He'll get more chances. The young guys always do - that's another story - I have a theory as to why the youngsters see so many deer - maybe some other time.

Good luck - p

lomfs24
04-24-2003, 17:01
Paynter2,
You are probably not thinking anything this small but I have for the last few years taken no less than two deer a year with a .17 Rem. A 17 caliber bullet sitting on a 223 case. Fun gun to shoot. I have never had a deer run nor have I lost a deer, except the one where my scope was off and I saw the bullet hit the ground in front of him. I wouldn't recommend it for just anyone though. I do think that 243 is adequate, but I couldn't agree with you more on the fact that no matter what you shoot you have to have complete confidence in it.

paynter2
04-24-2003, 20:43
lomfs24 - a .17 wouldn't be legal where I hunt - or pratical. The country is just to rough. I use to hunt farm country - but hunting became so popular that there were too many hunters around. I moved to tougher country with fewer hunters.

I have no problem with a serious shooter using extremely small calibers. In fact, I think it would be fun. But, I need something that will drop the animal. I've found that there is such a thing as 'over-kill' in deer calibers. A 7MM mag will drop a deer but no faster than my 6mm. Down is down. Granted, if I were hunting in WY or MT, I would go to something bigger. The 6mm's will reach out there (I once shot a buck at over 400 yards with mine). But, a 25-06 or .270 will do it with more energy down range.

A friend used to raise Angus. When he'd butcher one, he'd shoot it behind the ear with a .22 long. That critter would drop instantly. Shot placement is everything.

Sulaco
05-12-2003, 21:51
Ack, I would be up all night if I tried to read all of the responses so I am sorry it I am being redundant.

My primary gun is a Remington Model 700 BDL in .270 Win. I love it. .270 is the flattest shooting rifle caliber I have found and holds its own compared to all of the major heavy hitters in velocity and energy.

That said, I would have to say that the ultimate Whitetail gun would be a Remington Model Seven in 7mm-08. The 7mm-08 is not far behind the .270 Win in terms of velocity and energy and shoots pretty flat for what it is.

I shoot Hornady Light Magnums and both guns drop deer dead... period.

I used to shoot a .243 Ruger a good bit (most accurate gun I have EVER shot) and loved it. I have probably killed more deer with it than all other guns I have shot/owned combined. I have never chased a deer when I used the Ruger. They have all dropped within feet of where I shot them up to 140 yards away. I would not hesitate to take a .243 into the woods if you are a good shot.

Shot placement is everything when it comes to Whitetail. I always try to shoot them in the neck or in the head, but if I have to take a body shot, I either let them go or I shoot them in the shoulder aiming for the heart. I never shoot them in the lungs, it is too risky and I have helped too many people track lung shot deer for hours only to find massive blood trails and no deer. I don't hunt to feed the wild dogs. ;)

Poohgyrr
05-14-2003, 13:34
We certainly have quite a few good choices out there. For up close, I like short levers or a good Smith revolver (well, ok, a good Glock should work just as well :) )....

CanyonMan
05-15-2003, 22:07
I love my 45-70, Marlin with 405 gr. cast reloads. My son uses a winchester 45LC. Both good 100-150 yds.


CanyonMan

G Man .40
05-21-2003, 14:30
.35 Cal or 30-30 winchester

G Man .40
05-22-2003, 09:13
;f