Predictions on Iran... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Sgt. Rambo
02-03-2012, 17:06
The rhetoric out of Iran is ramping up big time. Almost a new story per hour today from what I've read. From a S&P perspective, what predictions would you make for next six months, Post election, one year, and what it will mean for the S&P realm.

farmer-dave
02-03-2012, 17:18
I think it's saber rattling, Israel generally doesn't announce before they atack. Unfortunately I believe Iran has their stuff to deep underground for Israel to be effective. Unfortunately all the attention will keep oil prices high. I personally was hoping for diesel prices to drop this winter and it really hasn't happened.

Sgt. Rambo
02-03-2012, 17:26
I hope its saber rattling too, a kind expression for those idiots, but I think it has more potential as time goes on. They have us by the short hairs with the oil.. at least for now. I just don't see Israel waiting around to get stomped on.

cowboy1964
02-03-2012, 18:02
This is for real. Israel is the only country routinely threatened with outright annihilation by it's enemies and it's #1 enemy is getting close to going nuclear.

For Israel it's fight them now with conventionals or fight them in a few years with nukes. That's what it coming down to, unless Iran stops what they are doing.

My question is, will Iran actually be stupid enough to launch terrorist attacks on U.S. soil?

Syclone538
02-03-2012, 18:03
I think it's saber rattling, Israel generally doesn't announce before they atack. Unfortunately I believe Iran has their stuff to deep underground for Israel to be effective. Unfortunately all the attention will keep oil prices high. I personally was hoping for diesel prices to drop this winter and it really hasn't happened.

I think we gave them some bunker busters here within the last 6 months. Maybe someone will remember more about it.

cowboy1964
02-03-2012, 18:05
I think we gave them some bunker busters here within the last 6 months. Maybe someone will remember more about it.

This was in the news this week. The DoD is rushing development of an enhanced buster, capable of penetrating 200 feet of solid rock. (!)

BORNGEARHEAD
02-03-2012, 18:06
Isn't it amazing how the mainstream media has ramped up it's propaganda? Let's see, we have Iran surrounded, we have 3 carrier groups over there, and Iran is the threat?!?! Give me a break.

4TS&W
02-03-2012, 18:22
Isn't it amazing how the mainstream media has ramped up it's propaganda? Let's see, we have Iran surrounded, we have 3 carrier groups over there, and Iran is the threat?!?! Give me a break.

No one will take them seriously until the mushroom cloud goes up.

Which is why they are trying to put one up as fast as they can.

Sgt. Rambo
02-03-2012, 18:30
So how does this or DOES this change your S&P attitude.... If it kicks off, how far does it go and what does it mean to us?? I'm going to fill every little gas can I have not that it will help much but it seems like Iran burps and prices go up. Does it affect food prices etc?

OH.. and I read on Drudge today that Iran is calling for a new world order....LOL

Wake_jumper
02-03-2012, 18:33
The current administration is beating the drums of war. They will stop at nothing to stay in power.

Cavalry Doc
02-03-2012, 18:36
I wish it were just saber rattling. Believe it or not, it's up to you, but there are some cultural things to consider. The rulers in Iran belong to a specific sect of Shia Islam. Commonly referred to as "Twelvers".


Short Version
Iranian Video Promotes Islamic Mahdi To Return Soon - YouTube

Long Version
Please don't mind the initial popup rants, I used to have a link to a bare version of this, the translation (in white) is from a different source, and apparently is accurate.

[LAST NEWS/URGENT] 2011 Imam Mahdi revealed soon and the 3 men heralding him identified!!! 1/2 - YouTube

[LAST NEWS/URGENT] 2011 Imam Mahdi revealed soon and the 3 men heralding him identified!!! 2/2 - YouTube



Wikipedia link on twelvers (I know, but check it out anyway) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelver)

Now, the tricky part is considering this information with the current events. Maybe the Iranians are just blowing smoke, or maybe they are pious in their beliefs. It is a theocracy.

The Judeo-Christian version of the end of times is that it will not be known when it will come, and they should prepare and wait for it. The Twelver version is that they have to do something to ignite the events that bring about the return of their religious savior. The real scary part about the prophesy, is that they expect 2/3 of the population of the world to perish, and they expect a devastating counter attack.

Mutually assured destruction is not a deterrent to that kind of mindset. I've heard many people say that if the Supreme Leader in Iran and his mouthpiece I'm-in-a-jihad were really planning on something like this, they would keep their mouth shut. But think about it. If you were on a mission from god to fulfill your destiny, wouldn't you believe that you were unstoppable? After all, it's a freakin' prophesy, to you, it's a sure thing.


So what will happen? Don't know.
What should the USA or Israel do? Don't know.

If Iran gets a nuke, and holds onto it like everyone else, and just uses it as a deterrent to keep people from screwing with them, then we should probably do nothing.

If Iran gets a Nuke, and uses it offensively as either a blackmail tool, or actually uncorks one or more outside of their own borders, then I am sure I am going to wish we had nuked them first.


There really is no way to get this one right with 100% accuracy and in an ethical manner without the benefit of hindsight.

It will be interesting to watch though.

:popcorn:

redbrd
02-03-2012, 18:42
Isreal didn't make the announcement Pennetta did. As far as oil prices we don't get a lot of oil from Iran, but I believe Europe does. Oil prices will go up for whatever excuse they can find.

Sgt. Rambo
02-03-2012, 18:52
Isreal didn't make the announcement Pennetta did. As far as oil prices we don't get a lot of oil from Iran, but I believe Europe does. Oil prices will go up for whatever excuse they can find.

I saw that as odd too. I think our current administration is trying to hold them back or hold them (Israelis) off until it suits them.

LASTRESORT20
02-03-2012, 18:54
Isn't it amazing how the mainstream media has ramped up it's propaganda? Let's see, we have Iran surrounded, we have 3 carrier groups over there, and Iran is the threat?!?! Give me a break.

********
Seems like Iran is and has been making all the Threats....and been making them for awhile now...as far as "surround"...Isreal is the one "surrounded" by the "Islamics"...as far as our "3 carrier groups"....thats a responce to the terrorists who are making all the threats....God Bless Isreal and Damnnnnn all the terrorist and `their supporters`......No breaks for terrorists and their supporters!

Liberalism is a cancer.

BORNGEARHEAD
02-03-2012, 19:05
Here is why we will attack Iran. Just like Iraq. Just like Libya. Dollar, dollar bills, ya'll.

http://rt.com/news/iran-attack-us-allegations-243/

ArmoryDoc
02-03-2012, 19:19
It's inevitable. Iran won't quit. The Islamist fundamentalists will drive Iran to imminent war to usher in the 12th Imam, the Mahdi. It's going to happen sooner or later. And honestly, later is getting to be much sooner than it used to be. Doubt all you will and deny what you want. It's coming whether you like it or not.

cowboy1964
02-03-2012, 19:39
The current administration is beating the drums of war. They will stop at nothing to stay in power.

Yeah, if Israel attacks Iran it will be because Obama made them. :whistling:

B.Reid
02-03-2012, 19:41
They are going to be in a world of hurt. That's my prediction.

Sgt. Rambo
02-03-2012, 19:45
Here is why we will attack Iran. Just like Iraq. Just like Libya. Dollar, dollar bills, ya'll.

http://rt.com/news/iran-attack-us-allegations-243/

Good read.. makes a lot of sense. There is an oil pipeline that plays into that equation also that Iran and the US want exclusive rights too.

Wake_jumper
02-03-2012, 20:16
Yeah, if Israel attacks Iran it will be because Obama made them. :whistling:

Isreal will not act without a U.S. blessing and promise of support.

inzone
02-03-2012, 21:03
Israel has a number of covert options.....one they have trained for is to put pathfinder teams into remote Iran desert and hold a remote strip of road and convert it into an ersatz airfield and bring in special teams to refuel the fighter bombers.... it can be done in a very short turnaround time.... and don't forget Mossad.... a decapitation strike against top Iranian leaders including I'm a nutjob is not off the table either....Israel has many Mossad agents in Iran also who can go in and possibly put sabotage bombs, including neutron nukes, in some of the facilities.... and a swarm attack involves all of the above simultaneously and them some....never underestimate the Israelis...they are fighting for their very survival and they know it...

kirgi08
02-03-2012, 21:30
Israel will not act without a U.S. blessing and promise of support.

Wrong. Israel,would like our blessing.However as a nation they will defend its self against all boarders.'08.

barbedwiresmile
02-04-2012, 06:11
The saber rattling on Iran reflects upcoming US elections, the increasingly stark reality of slow-burn fiscal meltdown, the insecurity of the regime, and the reality of "national security" / TLA's as our number one 'industry' (their budgets dependent to a large degree on boogeymen of various stripes). With our inevitable retreat from Iraq and soon Afghanistan, it is imperative that victory be declared. The catch is that we cannot allow ourselves to be without a boogeyman - the budgets must flow. And people must look to a regime for security. Obviously economic security is out of the question, so physical security becomes paramount. This sliding scale between economic and physical security is the oldest theme in state power dynamics. Ancient, in fact.

Besides, physical security is a playing field much easier to manipulate. Economics has it's own pesky laws that tend to foil central planning and work against, rather than for, the regime over time. Let these realities guide your preps accordingly. Just understand that the 'enemy' isn't 'at the gates'. He's inside the gates. Statistically you have much more to fear from out-of-control TLAs than mad Iraninan "terrorists" roving your neighborhood or deciding to attack America.

ETA: forgot to answer the OPs question on "predictions". My prediction: the scope and scale of the federal government continues to grow unabated and TLAs multiply. Budgets increase, along with physical and electronic surveillance. The A.P. theater of the absurd continues as the primary M.O. of TLA "anti-terror" operations. Local and state "law enforcement" agencies continue to cooperate more closely (and are increasingly tied in from the budgetary standpoint) with DHS and other TLAs. Capital controls are implemented. Physical checkpoints become more common. Americans largely support such measure and the 'heroes' working for TLAs.

ArmoryDoc
02-04-2012, 08:22
ETA: forgot to answer the OPs question on "predictions". My prediction: the scope and scale of the federal government continues to grow unabated and TLAs multiply. Budgets increase, along with physical and electronic surveillance. The A.P. theater of the absurd continues as the primary M.O. of TLA "anti-terror" operations. Local and state "law enforcement" agencies continue to cooperate more closely (and are increasingly tied in from the budgetary standpoint) with DHS and other TLAs. Capital controls are implemented. Physical checkpoints become more common. Americans largely support such measure and the 'heroes' working for TLAs.

I know we love acronyms around here but many of us aren't high speed-low drag. Can you translate for the rest of us ? What are...

"A.P."
"T.L.A."

Thanks.

SPIN2010
02-04-2012, 09:10
I seem to remember a group of iranian criminals taking US citizens hostage for about a year. I am not really sure how you predict what a criminal will do, except by looking at their past record.

Now, if anyone really believes that iran has turned over a new leaf since 1979 I will go along with their "peaceful intent" in the use of nuclear energy, but I doubt it very much. I have never seen a new energy development group bury their research lab in 200' of rock and make the moves they (iran) have made because of peace.

Glock30Eric
02-04-2012, 10:21
We shouldn't be worried about that. It's between Israel and Iran.

We should be more worried with our debts, $15.5 Trillions and counting. I won't be surprised in 6 months we will ask for $2 trillion increase in our debt ceiling. In fact our debt ceiling is joke because we never had said no to an increase.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Cavalry Doc
02-04-2012, 11:04
We shouldn't be worried about that. It's between Israel and Iran.

We should be more worried with our debts, $15.5 Trillions and counting. I won't be surprised in 6 months we will ask for $2 trillion increase in our debt ceiling. In fact our debt ceiling is joke because we never had said no to an increase.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Wrong again.

Iran warns world of coming great event
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/iran-warns-world-of-coming-great-event/

“In light of the realization of the divine promise by almighty God, the Zionists and the Great Satan (America) will soon be defeated,” Ayatollah Khamenei, the Iranian supreme leader, is warning.

Khamenei, speaking to hundreds of youths from more than 70 countries attending a world conference on the Arab Spring just days ago, told a cheering crowd in Tehran that “Allah’s promises will be delivered and Islam will be victorious.”


At some point, you have to consider the possibility that some people don't think like you, and in the absence of any provocation from you, might still wish you dead, some may even act on that wish. People have their own reasons for doing stupid stuff.

The budget is very important too. Just don't expect the world to leave Us alone if we try to ignore them to fix our economy.

Iran has launched a satellite, and ICBM's are made with 60 year old technology. They even predate the Internet.


The good news is we could actually SAVE money responding to an attack by Iran. We should let them know that, even if it may not deter them.
If we are hit, we simply agree to unilaterally decrease our stockpiles of warheads by about 30 or so. We would save a bundle in maintenance costs.















http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/mm3-launch.jpg

UneasyRider
02-04-2012, 14:46
We shouldn't be worried about that. It's between Israel and Iran.

We should be more worried with our debts, $15.5 Trillions and counting. I won't be surprised in 6 months we will ask for $2 trillion increase in our debt ceiling. In fact our debt ceiling is joke because we never had said no to an increase.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

We should be worried about an increase in the price of gas and terrorist acts here. You are right though our larger problem is the debt that will effect us far more than a nuke going off in the middle east.

I think that Israel will do it because they have no choice. If we are smart we will take out a lot of costly infrastructure in Iran so that they will be motivated to export as much oil as possible to get the cash to rebuild.

UrbanOps
02-04-2012, 14:46
What would it take for the US to use nuclear weapons against Iran? Would we hit them first with nuclear weapons or would they have to attack us first with a nuke?

Cavalry Doc
02-04-2012, 15:07
What would it take for the US to use nuclear weapons against Iran? Would we hit them first with nuclear weapons or would they have to attack us first with a nuke?

Since the cold war, we have maintained a first strike capability. What will Barry do? I don't really know. I am pretty sure if an Iranian nuke went off here, we'd nuke them back. Problem is, that may not be much of a deterrent for them. They are sorta nuts.

It's a tough question. Guess we will see how it goes.

Glock30Eric
02-04-2012, 17:09
Since the cold war, we have maintained a first strike capability. What will Barry do? I don't really know. I am pretty sure if an Iranian nuke went off here, we'd nuke them back. Problem is, that may not be much of a deterrent for them. They are sorta nuts.

It's a tough question. Guess we will see how it goes.

I hope that we don't nuke at Iran. We have lots of weapons to use instead of throwing the deadliest and worst weapon at Iran.

You got it right, they don't have much of deterrent to be on their side.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Cavalry Doc
02-04-2012, 18:46
I hope that we don't nuke at Iran. We have lots of weapons to use instead of throwing the deadliest and worst weapon at Iran.

You got it right, they don't have much of deterrent to be on their side.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/104532_600-Copy.jpg




I have seen enough people torn apart and hurt in just about every way imaginable. I hope no one gets nuked.

But the fact remains, stuff is happening. I wish we could leave them alone and have them return the favor. I am just not sure that is in the cards, especially from what I know about their religious prophesies.

The day they uncork a nuke outside their own borders, I will be sure that we should have nuked them first.

If assured destruction is not a deterrent, then destruction may be necessary. It is very expensive to kill only the bad guys. Killing everyone is rather cheap. We've already purchased all the equipment, and it costs money to maintain it, we could stop doing maintenance and expensive upkeep on 20 or 30 of our older model missiles with multiple re-entry vehicle warheads, and save a boatload of cash.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/Peace_Reentry.jpg



The worlds largest glass parking lot is a relatively cheap alternative to an invasion.


No kidding, I know what we can do, and I really hope none of that is necessary.

Glock30Eric
02-04-2012, 19:20
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/104532_600-Copy.jpg




I have seen enough people torn apart and hurt in just about every way imaginable. I hope no one gets nuked.

But the fact remains, stuff is happening. I wish we could leave them alone and have them return the favor. I am just not sure that is in the cards, especially from what I know about their religious prophesies.

The day they uncork a nuke outside their own borders, I will be sure that we should have nuked them first.

If assured destruction is not a deterrent, then destruction may be necessary. It is very expensive to kill only the bad guys. Killing everyone is rather cheap. We've already purchased all the equipment, and it costs money to maintain it, we could stop doing maintenance and expensive upkeep on 20 or 30 of our older model missiles with multiple re-entry vehicle warheads, and save a boatload of cash.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p158/CavalryDoc/Peace_Reentry.jpg



The worlds largest glass parking lot is a relatively cheap alternative to an invasion.


No kidding, I know what we can do, and I really hope none of that is necessary.

We'll see. Honestly, I can't do anything with it because I am not in control of it (expect that I could vote senators to prevent it).

I prays that we don't have to press the nuke button otherwise it will make us look really bad; really bad.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

emt1581
02-04-2012, 19:41
Didn't North Korea pull the same crap and then demand money for the destruction of their nukes...and then we/the world community catered to their demands and they still maintained nukes and laughed at sanctions??

I'm sure some of my facts are off and North Korea seems to be significantly more powerful as a country than Iran...but I'm thinking the end result is the same.

Everyone tries to be diplomatic and then sits with their thumb up their butt when diplomacy fails. The Israelis don't seem to play that game. They don't bluff. They strike, rightfully so, and then tell anyone who has a problem with it to piss off...GOOD for them!!

This never ending diplomacy makes me wanna puke!!

You don't negotiate with criminals, you arrest and/or kill them...end of story.

As to the original question, I think anything that happens will happen AFTER the elections. Americans (read: Liberals/Democrats) are quick to jump on the anti-war band wagon. It'd be political suicide for Obama to give the go ahead to attack at this point in the game. After the election I still think Iran will be given far too many chances until it is too late and some other nation gets hurt.

-Emt1581

Cavalry Doc
02-04-2012, 19:42
We'll see. Honestly, I can't do anything with it because I am not in control of it (expect that I could vote senators to prevent it).

I prays that we don't have to press the nuke button otherwise it will make us look really bad; really bad.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Being burnt to a crisp makes us look bad too. Trust me on that one. I won't post pictures.

Bottom line, it will be what it will be. There are only a few possibilities.


Iran either intends to, or does not intend to hit Israel and/or the USA with a Nuke.

If they do intend to hit Israel or the USA with a Nuke, we will either have warning or not.

If we don't have warning, Israel or us will likely see a nuke go off within our borders.

If we do have prior warning, someone will make a decision to either try to stop them or not...

There are numerous possibilities, and a cascade of likely events that will flow from there. There isn't much need for me to list them all.




The first question before the CINC, is do we have enough intel to believe that Iran will use a Nuke if they get one. Second, are they working toward getting one. Third........... Now what.


Hold on bro, it's going to be a wild ride.

Cavalry Doc
02-04-2012, 19:47
Didn't North Korea pull the same crap and then demand money for the destruction of their nukes...and then we/the world community catered to their demands and they still maintained nukes and laughed at sanctions??

I'm sure some of my facts are off and North Korea seems to be significantly more powerful as a country than Iran...but I'm thinking the end result is the same.

Everyone tries to be diplomatic and then sits with their thumb up their butt when diplomacy fails. The Israelis don't seem to play that game. They don't bluff. They strike, rightfully so, and then tell anyone who has a problem with it to piss off...GOOD for them!!

This never ending diplomacy makes me wanna puke!!

You don't negotiate with criminals, you arrest and/or kill them...end of story.

As to the original question, I think anything that happens will happen AFTER the elections. Americans (read: Liberals/Democrats) are quick to jump on the anti-war band wagon. It'd be political suicide for Obama to give the go ahead to attack at this point in the game. After the election I still think Iran will be given far too many chances until it is too late and some other nation gets hurt.

-Emt1581

NK and Iran are very different scenarios. NK is interesting, but even KJI & KJU wanted to & want to live. Mutually Assured Destruction was a real deterrent to them.



Israel and the efforts of the Iranians building their bomb, will decide what to do independent of the American elections.

The only prediction I have, is that it will be interesting to watch.

If they nuke me, no worries. I they nuke somewhere else, I'm prepped.

wrenrj1
02-04-2012, 20:18
My prediction is the Giants by 10, and I'd compromise and give them 7 points if they keep Madonna.

Jonesee
02-04-2012, 20:56
The current administration is beating the drums of war. They will stop at nothing to stay in power.



What??? W. put us in wars on multiple fronts. In 3 years what front has the current administration opened???

I'm not an Obama fan. But let's at least be honest...

I could be wrong. Please post your source...

emt1581
02-04-2012, 20:59
WHAT??? W. put in wars on multiple fronts. In 3 years what front has the current administration opened???

I'm not an Obama fan. But let's at least be honest...

I was wondering that to...with all of the past few presidents, the democratic ones never made any addresses from the oval office to the American people alerting everyone to a decision they had made to invade/attack somewhere...did Obama??

I'm just not remember it.

-Emt1581

wildcat455
02-05-2012, 00:13
LOL. No, he doesn't ask Congress or give speeches, he just bombs Libya while "Visiting" Brazil... Or was that a "working Vacation"? March 19, 2011

Americans have such a short memory... But then again, I kinda think we are conditioned to.

UneasyRider
02-05-2012, 06:48
LOL. No, he doesn't ask Congress or give speeches, he just bombs Libya while "Visiting" Brazil... Or was that a "working Vacation"? March 19, 2011

Americans have such a short memory... But then again, I kinda think we are conditioned to.

Wasn't there a big speech before we started bombing Egypt?

barbedwiresmile
02-05-2012, 08:03
I know we love acronyms around here but many of us aren't high speed-low drag. Can you translate for the rest of us ? What are...

"A.P."
"T.L.A."

Thanks.

agent provocateur

three letter agency

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 08:54
LOL. No, he doesn't ask Congress or give speeches, he just bombs Libya while "Visiting" Brazil... Or was that a "working Vacation"? March 19, 2011

Americans have such a short memory... But then again, I kinda think we are conditioned to.

We did that as support of the UN mission. Many presidents have done the same thing. And it was short lived and totally successful.

Hardly in the same universe as what George W did.

Over 5,400 American soldiers died in Irag and Afghanistan.
0 died in the Lybia mission

Take politics out of it and be honest. Between Bush and Obama I don't think anyone can actually call Obama the sabre rattler.

The Bush Doctrine will likely be what George W. will be noted in the history books for.

redbrd
02-05-2012, 10:44
We did that as support of the UN mission. Many presidents have done the same thing. And it was short lived and totally successful.

Hardly in the same universe as what George W did.

Over 5,400 American soldiers died in Irag and Afghanistan.
0 died in the Lybia mission

Take politics out of it and be honest. Between Bush and Obama I don't think anyone can actually call Obama the sabre rattler.

The Bush Doctrine will likely be what George W. will be noted in the history books for.

Hardly totally successful. Groups with terrorist leanings are have a lot of influence there. Thousands of weapons are unaccounted for. What did the US gain from that operation? Nothing except a dangerous precident of a President acting unilaterly without even attempting to get the approval of Congress when he was required to. I don't care what your politics are that is a bad thing.

TangoFoxtrot
02-05-2012, 10:56
I think its ashame that this BS is effecting our prices at the pump. I think being its a presidential election will play into it as well. As far as I'm concerned let Israel and Iran duke or nuke it out as long as it doesn't drag us into it. (but it will). The U.S. cannot afford another war which dumps billions of dollars a month into it. Nor should we expand any more of our soldiers lives as well. The U.S. needs to stop being the world's police force....BUT!!! IF WE DO GET INVOLVED..... Lets just do a driveby and be done with it. We can't afford to build more condos in the middleast.

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 11:24
Hardly totally successful. Groups with terrorist leanings are have a lot of influence there. Thousands of weapons are unaccounted for. What did the US gain from that operation? Nothing except a dangerous precident of a President acting unilaterly without even attempting to get the approval of Congress when he was required to. I don't care what your politics are that is a bad thing.


Let's stick the post I was referencing.
The post we are discussing stated that Obama was a sabre rattler and would start wars to remain in power.

I asked him to provide proof of that. In light of George W. I don't think Obama can be construed as a sabre rattler.

Oh btw, where are those weapons of mass destruction that our sons and daughters died for. Even bush finally admitted that was wrong.

If you have evidence and data that Obama has pushed for more armed conflict than Bush, please post it.

Politics aside, I am only pointing out inaccuracies. Opinions don't count as historical data. I will do it on both sides.

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 11:32
Let's stick the post I was referencing.
The post we are discussing stated that Obama was a sabre rattler and would start wars to remain in power.

I asked him to provide proof of that. In light of George W. I don't think Obama can be construed as a sabre rattler.

Oh btw, where are those weapons of mass destruction that our sons and daughters died for. Even bush finally admitted that was wrong.

If you have evidence and data that Obama has pushed for more armed conflict than Bush, please post it.

Politics aside, I am only pointing out inaccuracies. Opinions don't count as historical data. I will do it on both sides.

To answer one of your questions, the 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium we found there have been moved to Canada. Not sure what happened to the hundreds of chemical weapons containing artillery shells.

TangoFoxtrot
02-05-2012, 11:32
Obama has gotten himself into hot water with Israel because he didn't kiss their ***.

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 11:46
To answer one of your questions, the 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium we found there have been moved to Canada. Not sure what happened to the hundreds of chemical weapons containing artillery shells.

Yelowcake uranium is not refined enough for a nuclear weapon beyond a dirty bomb, and there was nothing found that supports they had the technology to go as far as a dirty bomb.

Like I said, even Bush has now admitted the premise of the war was an error. And, that there were no WOMDs. Specifically, he now considers it a liberation of a country from a dictator.

The basis of the war was the Bush Doctrine which basic principle is America has a right to take first action on a country that is an immediate threat to America whether they have acted or not. Not removal of a dictator.

kirgi08
02-05-2012, 11:55
Only a dirty bomb,nothing ta worry about.'08. :faint:

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 12:01
Only a dirty bomb,nothing ta worry about.'08. :faint:

Stay focused on what we are discussing. Who moved more frequently into war, Bush or Obama.

Since the poster has not taken the time to rebut anything I have asked, I assume he admits he doesn't have the data to support his post.

And there are a bunch of nation states that have the technology create a dirty bomb that we have not invaded. I would assume Korea and Iran is at the top of that list.

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 12:05
Yelowcake uranium is not refined enough for a nuclear weapon beyond a dirty bomb, and there was nothing found that supports they had the technology to go as far as a dirty bomb.

Like I said, even Bush has now admitted the premise of the war was an error. And, that there were no WOMDs. Specifically, he now considers it a liberation of a country from a dictator.

The basis of the war was the Bush Doctrine which basic principle is America has a right to take first action on a country that is an immediate threat to America whether they have acted or not. Not removal of a dictator.


Democrats on Iraq + WMD's (Weapons of Mass Destruction) - YouTube

Everyone knew he had WMD. It was mostly a bluff, perpetrated by Saddam. I blame him. I think we should probably hang someone for something like that.

We knew the yellow cake was there, it had been inventoried by the inspectors, the ones that Saddam kicked out of the country.

I didn't agree with the invasion in the beginning either. But then I went there, and that changed my mind. We killed a lot of military aged male jihadists there. And I mean A LOT.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

The chemical artillery shells and yellow cake are frequently disqualified by others, but they were WMD and precursors that were found in Iraq after the invasion. So it is a basic falsehood to state that none were found. Still, Saddam's fault for the bluff. Also, he was violating the cease fire, routinely. Bad move in a post 9/11 world, especially when Iraq was a perfect location to draw AQ types to.

Read the entire authorization for the use of force. WMD was only one of the reasons given to invade.

Oh well, I agree that we should have gone in, and we did go in. It's all water under the bridge now. You have my permission to disagree if you want to. It changes nothing.

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 12:07
Only a dirty bomb,nothing ta worry about.'08. :faint:

Unless you happen to be close to one when it goes off.

Ask the Troops exposed to chemical munition IEDs if WMD were present or not.

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 12:24
You have my permission to disagree if you want to. It changes nothing.

Young man, you aren't my wife. I don't need your permission for a damn thing I do in this world. Much less agree or disagree with you.

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 12:32
Young man, you aren't my wife. I don't need your permission for a damn thing I do in this world. Much less agree or disagree with you.

I didn't say you needed it. I just said you had it.

:wavey:

Whether you have my permission or not changes what? Nothing. That's the point.

What about the other things I pointed out?

Jonesee
02-05-2012, 12:35
I didn't say you needed it. I just said you had it.

:wavey:

What about the other things I pointed out?

The other points are well taken but irrelevant to the original point I made that Obama was not a war mongering sabre rattler as the poster stated. That poster has gone into hiding.

kirgi08
02-05-2012, 14:04
Unless you happen to be close to one when it goes off.

Ask the Troops exposed to chemical munition IEDs if WMD were present or not.

Sarcasm Doc.'08.

G29Reload
02-05-2012, 14:10
I wonder what Israeli civil defense is like.

I wonder how their bomb shelters are stocked.

If anyone is prepared, its them. Recall the 91 war when saddam scud'ed the place. Duct tape and sheeting, sealed rooms…they knew what to do.

I wonder how the civil shelters are stocked. What their country has done, maybe underground fortified warehouses full of food? water? sanitation?

They have the survival mindset.

G29Reload
02-05-2012, 14:19
What did the US gain from that operation? Nothing except a dangerous precident of a President acting unilaterly without even attempting to get the approval of Congress when he was required to. I don't care what your politics are that is a bad thing.

Fact Check: GWB never undertook any military operation without approval from Congress.

So, this "bad thing"…never occurred. I recall flying on a plane with Orrin Hatch the day the vote was taken on Iraq and asking if he voted support…thumbs up!

Afghanistan, just after 9/11…resounding support. People that now speak of it as a waste of our resources seem to forget those flaming buildings with people jumping out of them…The taliban hide there, our job to go and kill them.

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 14:38
Sarcasm Doc.'08.

I got it then. I wasn't trying to be confrontational, I was agreeing with you. :wavey:

Cavalry Doc
02-05-2012, 14:44
Fact Check: GWB never undertook any military operation without approval from Congress.

So, this "bad thing"…never occurred. I recall flying on a plane with Orrin Hatch the day the vote was taken on Iraq and asking if he voted support…thumbs up!

Afghanistan, just after 9/11…resounding support. People that now speak of it as a waste of our resources seem to forget those flaming buildings with people jumping out of them…The taliban hide there, our job to go and kill them.

I will never forget that day. I thought about it every day I was in Iraq. No, Iraq was not responsible for 9/11, but I met many like minded individuals in our Division Interrogation Facility. People from Jordan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, etc......

How do you get tens of thousands of jihad minded individuals that are loosely associated into cells in multiple countries to coalesce into a conventional fighting force and show up on the battlefield of your choosing?

Bush's fault. :supergrin:

Glocktastic
02-05-2012, 19:16
I will never forget that day. I thought about it every day I was in Iraq. No, Iraq was not responsible for 9/11, but I met many like minded individuals in our Division Interrogation Facility. People from Jordan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria, etc......

How do you get tens of thousands of jihad minded individuals that are loosely associated into cells in multiple countries to coalesce into a conventional fighting force and show up on the battlefield of your choosing?

Bush's fault. :supergrin:

Well said, C'Doc.

wildcat455
02-06-2012, 21:57
I recall flying on a plane with Orrin Hatch the day the vote was taken on Iraq and asking if he voted support…thumbs up!

You KNOW Orrin Hatch?!!

Sheesh! Who else you rubbin' elbows with?!!

LMAO! Just kiddin' G29!

janice6
02-06-2012, 22:05
if Iran doesn't have a popular revolution, then there will be a war with the west. It's too late for the clergy to get off the bus now.

wildcat455
02-06-2012, 22:41
Let's stick the post I was referencing.
The post we are discussing stated that Obama was a sabre rattler and would start wars to remain in power.

I asked him to provide proof of that. In light of George W. I don't think Obama can be construed as a sabre rattler.

Oh btw, where are those weapons of mass destruction that our sons and daughters died for. Even bush finally admitted that was wrong.

If you have evidence and data that Obama has pushed for more armed conflict than Bush, please post it.

Politics aside, I am only pointing out inaccuracies. Opinions don't count as historical data. I will do it on both sides.

I don't think you are referencing my post, (Or accusing me of going into hiding)

Proof. Easy to demand, hard to produce. Like somehow I would be "Set to task" by your demand?

My opinion is:

I DO BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY Obama will engage in a war to stay in power. It is THAT important to him, and those who put him there in the 1st place, (And I don't mean the American people.) Aren't we already amassing troops over there or something? Thought I read something about Straights of Hormuz and a carrier...

Either way, time will tell. I see no point in discussing it... like my opinion or yours really matters.

Where you got all that other crap is not my concern.

runcible68
02-09-2012, 13:21
There will be some sort of attack in Iran this year. The consequences could be disastrous. The Navy ran a war game where a bunch of fast small boats attacked a conventional American fleet. The American's got their asses kicked. At least one carrier sunk. Hope we learned from that exercise and made adaptations.

racerford
02-09-2012, 14:19
There will be some sort of attack in Iran this year. The consequences could be disastrous. The Navy ran a war game where a bunch of fast small boats attacked a conventional American fleet. The American's got their asses kicked. At least one carrier sunk. Hope we learned from that exercise and made adaptations.

You would think the Phlanx guns mounted on some ships would take care of a small very fast boat. I would guess it is a matter of failed tactics. Where are the sharks with LASERs on their heads when you need them.

runcible68
02-09-2012, 14:24
From what I read, the "Red Team" just overwhelmed the defenders with many, many small boats. When you consider how tight the strait of Hormuz can get, it would hamper a larger ships maneuverability.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/washington/12navy.html
.

Glock30Eric
02-09-2012, 14:42
You would think the Phlanx guns mounted on some ships would take care of a small very fast boat. I would guess it is a matter of failed tactics. Where are the sharks with LASERs on their heads when you need them.

Remember my thread about the false-attack (a set up attack by USA to sink our USSN carrier as justification to go after Iran).

cowboy1964
02-09-2012, 14:46
Remember my thread about the false-attack (a set up attack by USA to sink our USSN carrier as justification to go after Iran).

Are you a Truther too?

wildcat455
02-09-2012, 19:48
You would think the Phlanx guns mounted on some ships would take care of a small very fast boat. I would guess it is a matter of failed tactics. Where are the sharks with LASERs on their heads when you need them.

Phalanx has a "minimum" incoming speed, and a "fast boat" isn't fast enough to qualify..

Glock30Eric
02-09-2012, 21:05
Are you a Truther too?

You could find those info on wiki leak with top commanders' signature on it.

I'm not sure what you mean with "truther". If you mean that I found something is a really true fact without any of craps then I am one of them. I don't share the fairy tales.


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Cavalry Doc
02-09-2012, 21:25
From what I read, the "Red Team" just overwhelmed the defenders with many, many small boats. When you consider how tight the strait of Hormuz can get, it would hamper a larger ships maneuverability.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/12/washington/12navy.html
.

I'm sure the Navy learned a bit from that exercise. At least I sure hope they did. Air superiority and precision munitions can be a lot of fun against small boats.

G29Reload
02-09-2012, 21:37
You KNOW Orrin Hatch?!!

Sheesh! Who else you rubbin' elbows with?!!

LMAO! Just kiddin' G29!

No. I flew on the same plane with him. He flies commercial. Saw him on the escalator, introduced myself. Nice guy.

I was flying to San Diego for recreation, via SLC. He was commuting home for the weekend and bailing at SLC. A fri night flight.

Just a random coincidence.

inzone
02-09-2012, 22:25
Israel is requesting permission from Cyprus to base fighters there!....Israeli Army is hurrying to places thousands of mines at key points on the Syrian border,,,, A large Syrian armored unit has moved close to the Israeli border.... sometimes when a lot of sabers rattle it actually means what it appears to be...time will tell!

bdcochran
02-09-2012, 22:49
I have been to Iran. The logic, context, education, mental conditioning are not comprehensible to a reader who assumes that everyone else shares his impressions and perceptions of the world.

The decision making process, the negotiation process, the roles of men and women are largely beyond the comprehension of a person who hasn't experienced them.

There is a current power struggle between the mullahs, the Revolutionary Guard, the technocrats and the landowners.

I wouldn't speculate on what will happen. What is happening is that the Red Chinese have shifted current purchases to Saudi Arabia, the Saudis are completing a port on the Red Sea to handle the oil and not going to be relying upon the Straits. The internal Iranian price supports on products, including refined oil have been largely removed because they were draining the treasury.

The situation is not good right now. It is unstable. The Soviet hold in Syria is at risk. The Iranian influence in Lebanon is at risk. The Chinese investments in Iranian and now Iraqi oilfields are at risk. The American interests are at risk. If Iran is taken out in some fashion as a power factor, nearly everyone else in the area with interests will benefit, even the Soviets.

Just keep your preps up to date, and you will be fine.

Sgt. Rambo
02-10-2012, 14:46
I have been to Iran. The logic, context, education, mental conditioning are not comprehensible to a reader who assumes that everyone else shares his impressions and perceptions of the world.

The decision making process, the negotiation process, the roles of men and women are largely beyond the comprehension of a person who hasn't experienced them.

There is a current power struggle between the mullahs, the Revolutionary Guard, the technocrats and the landowners.

I wouldn't speculate on what will happen. What is happening is that the Red Chinese have shifted current purchases to Saudi Arabia, the Saudis are completing a port on the Red Sea to handle the oil and not going to be relying upon the Straits. The internal Iranian price supports on products, including refined oil have been largely removed because they were draining the treasury.

The situation is not good right now. It is unstable. The Soviet hold in Syria is at risk. The Iranian influence in Lebanon is at risk. The Chinese investments in Iranian and now Iraqi oilfields are at risk. The American interests are at risk. If Iran is taken out in some fashion as a power factor, nearly everyone else in the area with interests will benefit, even the Soviets.

Just keep your preps up to date, and you will be fine.

Good post thanks!!

UneasyRider
02-10-2012, 14:58
I have been to Iran. The logic, context, education, mental conditioning are not comprehensible to a reader who assumes that everyone else shares his impressions and perceptions of the world.

The decision making process, the negotiation process, the roles of men and women are largely beyond the comprehension of a person who hasn't experienced them.

There is a current power struggle between the mullahs, the Revolutionary Guard, the technocrats and the landowners.

I wouldn't speculate on what will happen. What is happening is that the Red Chinese have shifted current purchases to Saudi Arabia, the Saudis are completing a port on the Red Sea to handle the oil and not going to be relying upon the Straits. The internal Iranian price supports on products, including refined oil have been largely removed because they were draining the treasury.

The situation is not good right now. It is unstable. The Soviet hold in Syria is at risk. The Iranian influence in Lebanon is at risk. The Chinese investments in Iranian and now Iraqi oilfields are at risk. The American interests are at risk. If Iran is taken out in some fashion as a power factor, nearly everyone else in the area with interests will benefit, even the Soviets.

Just keep your preps up to date, and you will be fine.

That does sum it up quite nicely!

Aceman
02-10-2012, 19:34
I have not read any of this thread - but I just KNOW it's going to be entertaining.

Aceman
02-10-2012, 21:03
I have been to Iran. The logic, context, education, mental conditioning are not comprehensible to a reader who assumes that everyone else shares his impressions and perceptions of the world.

The decision making process, the negotiation process, the roles of men and women are largely beyond the comprehension of a person who hasn't experienced them.

There is a current power struggle between the mullahs, the Revolutionary Guard, the technocrats and the landowners.

I wouldn't speculate on what will happen. What is happening is that the Red Chinese have shifted current purchases to Saudi Arabia, the Saudis are completing a port on the Red Sea to handle the oil and not going to be relying upon the Straits. The internal Iranian price supports on products, including refined oil have been largely removed because they were draining the treasury.

The situation is not good right now. It is unstable. The Soviet hold in Syria is at risk. The Iranian influence in Lebanon is at risk. The Chinese investments in Iranian and now Iraqi oilfields are at risk. The American interests are at risk. If Iran is taken out in some fashion as a power factor, nearly everyone else in the area with interests will benefit, even the Soviets.

Just keep your preps up to date, and you will be fine.

I have now finished reading the entire thread. I liked this post.

Sgt. Rambo
02-11-2012, 06:48
Both Iran and Israel test fired missles this past week. Iran a long range ballistic missle, Israel, an anti-missle system. I think we're in the pre-game phase getting closer to kick off, or 1st Round if you are a UFC fan...lol.

wildcat455
02-11-2012, 09:47
Economic Sanctions on Iran are causing hyperinflation in Iran.

Shouldn't be long now.

bdcochran
02-11-2012, 18:25
33 years later.

1, the mullahs from the countryside control the politics
2, the leftist university professors have been removed
3. the economic sanctions substantially reduced the ability to import parts to maintain the few oil refineries and not permitted building new ones. For an oil rich country, Iran lacks the refineries to service the country. China has entered into oil field development in exchange for a portion of the oil recovered.
4. the corruption remains, unabated.
5. the guy in charge maintained his position by promising all kinds of development funds to rural area and it is clear that he cannot follow through
6. basic commodities were subsidized and subsidies have been removed.
7. historically, the merchants simply ignored paying taxes and the governmental officials looked the other way. now the government officials are pressing for the payment of taxes
8. actually, Iran does need nuclear power for electricity generation, but when your cover is "peaceful purposes", there is no supporting structure like power lines being constructed.
9. in the early 1970s there was a clear distance between the train station and the walls of old Tehran. Now it is the Cemetery of the Martyrs wiith hundreds of thousands buried there from the last war.
10. do not take heart from bs mainstream news accounts. The communications and the press are tightly controlled. In the last war, it went like this. An army would go through a village. It would take all the young boys, promising the parents that they would only carry water and not be in harm's way. In the actual battles, the kids were sent ahead first to be slaughtered by the mines and Iraqis. Next came the religous zealots. Then the Revolutionary Guard. Lastly, came the regular Army.
11. The Revolutionary Guard has the actual control of the country, not the Army.
12. The population has increased from 25 million to 75 million since 1970.
13. No one under 40 years old attended school when the Shah was in power and few have had actual contact with the west.
14. if shtf, it will not be like the involvement in Vietnam. how many attacks were carried out by the NVA in the US during that war? None. the USA is quite vulnerable. You don't need a long range missile to be effective. How many bridges exist across the Mississippi River?
15. Lastly, forget the rah rah bs about 1 Marine being equal to 15 enemy. Also forget occupying a country of 75 million with 50,000 or 100,000 troops. There aren't a pile of Republicans or Democrats seeped in "democracy" ready to spring up and take control either.
16. PS. where do you think the elite, leaders and overlords of Iran have their second homes - hint - look at a couple of countries across the Persian Gulf. This might slow down the beat of the war drums in Iran

Sgt. Rambo
02-12-2012, 05:13
:goodpost::goodpost:

Sgt. Rambo
03-11-2012, 06:27
Well.. its been a month... any new thoughts or time lines??

series1811
03-11-2012, 06:35
Well.. its been a month... any new thoughts or time lines??

My prediction is that Israel is watching Iran a lot more closely than anyone else is, and when they decide something needs to be done, it will be.

MoneyMaker
03-11-2012, 08:23
I'M skeered,heading to my Doomsday Shelter now

JuneyBooney
03-12-2012, 00:31
This is for real. Israel is the only country routinely threatened with outright annihilation by it's enemies and it's #1 enemy is getting close to going nuclear.

For Israel it's fight them now with conventionals or fight them in a few years with nukes. That's what it coming down to, unless Iran stops what they are doing.

My question is, will Iran actually be stupid enough to launch terrorist attacks on U.S. soil?

I think we know that there are only two real Superpowers and we are number 1. I think a lot of it is just saber rattling too but you never know. A lot of what happens in world events is "scripted". :whistling:

Sgt. Rambo
03-15-2012, 14:10
I'M skeered,heading to my Doomsday Shelter now


You still with us??...lol

Glock30Eric
03-15-2012, 16:23
Read this: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/enterprise-just-4-days-away-arrival-swift-cut-iran


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inzone
03-15-2012, 19:04
folks i really think we are close to these, imho and fwiw, and you may want to read them even if you dont nec have a spiritual/biblical compass/belief......we shall see

bdcochran
03-15-2012, 19:17
Without outside intervention, Assad will win in the Syrian strife. His dad killed 35,000 in one town alone.

US goals-
1. removal of soviet submarine naval base from Syria. #2 guy from KGB went missing there last year and floated ashore in southern Turkey.
2. destruction of Iranian stockpiles of medium and short range missiles stored in Syria and Lebanon.
3. reduction (not destruction) of nuclear ambitions of Iran. The US is more vulnerable than Israel. A bomb dropped out on Israel wipes out a bunch of Hamas and Hezbollah shiites. A bomb dropped on Los Angeles (thank you) wipes out the expatriate Persian community that has money.

Israel's realistic goals:
1. destruction of 50,000 stockpiled short range and medium range missiles provided by the Iranians. Their locations of depots are known. The block busters needed are not the 25-30,000 pound bombs in the news. The US committed in the last two weeks to use its production line of smaller bunker busters to supply the Israelis (who have developed their own as well).
2. containment of Iran
3. accommodation with Sunni neighbors

The goals of Sunni Saudi Arabia, Gulf States, Turkey, and the 1/2 of Iraq and 1/2 of Jordan that is Sunni
1. Replace Assad with a compliant Sunni.
2. Push Iran back into Iran.

The goals of the Soviets:
1. Get paid by Assad for the billions in munitions sold on credit;
2. Keep its naval base.

The goals of the Chinese:
1. not jeopardize its investments in Iran and now Iraq.

If the Saudis and Gulf States can figure out a way to get a compliant Sunni into power, then the situation will favor the US.

TangoFoxtrot
03-16-2012, 05:01
I hope its saber rattling too, a kind expression for those idiots, but I think it has more potential as time goes on. They have us by the short hairs with the oil.. at least for now. I just don't see Israel waiting around to get stomped on.

Yes the arab nations do have us by the short hairs with the oil because we let them! We have the ANWAR area to drill for oil to keep prices down. I don't believe in gov't regulation, but with oil companies "I DO". We are so dependent on oil we now have to forget about natural areas and move the wild life elsewhere or face the threat of global war...and yes we will "kill" for oil., we have no choice. We are oil whores.

As far as Israel, let them have at it. We can't afford to be the front runners in another war. Somehow I'm sure we will support them from the rear. Let them do our dirty work, lord knows we gave them enough money over the years to protect themselves.....or let the UN (useless nations -minus us) jump in. We don't need to be the world's police.

ArmoryDoc
03-16-2012, 09:03
folks i really think we are close to these, imho and fwiw, and you may want to read them even if you dont nec have a spiritual/biblical compass/belief......we shall see

I did review that text at your suggestion. It is powerful and striking in comparison to what seems to be in the making, isn't it ? :wavey:

ArmoryDoc
03-16-2012, 09:11
What's interesting is the putting into place an agreement of the US and UK to release emergency stockpiles of petrol. The anticipation of an imminent attack on Iran is evident in this move. They need this in place because there will be an interruption of oil passing through the Strait of Hormuz and possibly the Suez. Having this agreement in place minimizes the damage caused to Obama by crisis gas prices in this election year.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-u-britain-set-agree-041120978.html

JFrame
03-16-2012, 09:28
I have been to Iran. The logic, context, education, mental conditioning are not comprehensible to a reader who assumes that everyone else shares his impressions and perceptions of the world.

...



33 years later.

1, the mullahs from the countryside control the politics
2, the leftist university professors have been removed

...



Without outside intervention, Assad will win in the Syrian strife. His dad killed 35,000 in one town alone.

US goals-

...




BD -- will echo the sentiments of others in saying that I'm enjoying and appreciating your posts... :cool:


.

ArmoryDoc
03-16-2012, 12:05
21st / 22nd is a go opportunity with a new moon cycle. Pitch dark.

BORNGEARHEAD
03-16-2012, 16:39
It's got to be hard for our government to keep forcing countries to continue to use the U.S. dollar as the world currency. Now our government wants to include India in the sanctions since they are buying Iran's oil now with GOLD. So is Russia and China. Are we gonna take them on, too? It's insane.

http://rt.com/news/india-iran-oil-sanctions-us-675/

bdcochran
03-16-2012, 16:47
No country is "forced" to use the US dollar as a world currency.

It is an accepted medium of exchange and some exchanges do require settlements, purchases and sales, to be denominated in dollars.

Subject to a home country's restrictions, a company may use any currency or form of barter in trade.

The cross-Afghanistan pipeline was scuttled by an awareness of the potential Red Chinese financing bank that it might be bared from doing further business with US regulated companies, pure and simple. Other forms of financing are, of course, available. Example. A phony bank can be set up, the money loaned to it by an established bank. The phony bank then makes the "loan" for the pipeline. Any number of ploys can be used.

Trade restraints come in a number of forms - subsidies, stringent inspections, capricious quality standards, tax laws, votes by public officials on the boards of private companies (oh yes, many countries have public officials and stockholdings in purportedly private companies). Banking restrictions are just one form - so as not allowing a bank to do business in your country if it does business outside the country with Iran or North Korea or Cuba.

TangoFoxtrot
03-26-2012, 04:40
What's interesting is the putting into place an agreement of the US and UK to release emergency stockpiles of petrol. The anticipation of an imminent attack on Iran is evident in this move. They need this in place because there will be an interruption of oil passing through the Strait of Hormuz and possibly the Suez. Having this agreement in place minimizes the damage caused to Obama by crisis gas prices in this election year.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-u-britain-set-agree-041120978.html

Sorry but its not going to happen. Just the hint of war with Iran or Iran threatening to close the straits of Hormuz has already drove up prices. OMG can you imagine what is going to happen if war broke out? Releaseing emergency stockpiles won't stop the price increases maybe slow them for a short time until after the election. Once the price is over $5 a gallon or higher,we will never see $3 or $4 a gallon prices again,and so and so on.

The bible factor plays nothing in all this. Oil and its revenue is the key player here. GREED! by all countries concerned.

Sgt. Rambo
11-10-2012, 08:09
Post election... They just fired on our Drone... they're backing attacks on us in other countries.... And what is OUR response?? Sad and pathetic..... Rewarded behavior gets repeated and I'm looking at our lack of response to them as a reward.

Hamrhed
11-10-2012, 08:49
The bible factor plays nothing in all this. Oil and its revenue is the key player here. GREED! by all countries concerned.
Oil/greed may be the key factor- but the outcome may very well be biblical....

boone10
11-10-2012, 11:48
Oil/greed may be the key factor- but the outcome may very well be biblical....

Truth

BORNGEARHEAD
11-10-2012, 14:02
Why are we flying in their airspace? What would happen if they were flying in our airspace?

janice6
11-10-2012, 14:06
Why are we flying in their airspace? What would happen if they were flying in our airspace?


They were not. The drone was 16 miles away. Their airspace has a 12 mile limit.

Like Libya declaring a 200 mile "airspace". We shot them down.

cowboy1964
11-10-2012, 14:33
They were not. The drone was 16 miles away. Their airspace has a 12 mile limit.


Which is why I believe they missed instead of shooting it down. Even Obama would have had to retaliate if that happened.

dukeblue91
11-10-2012, 14:56
Which is why I believe they missed instead of shooting it down. Even Obama would have had to retaliate if that happened.

From what I read that they shot and missed several times and there is no way they could have been such bad shots to have missed so many times.
According to that article it was all recorded by the drones onboard camera.

Still pretty ballsy by Iran.