didnt see business was posted until i was inside [Archive] - Glock Talk

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huggytree
02-05-2012, 10:15
I took my van in for service at the local Chevy dealership (Waukesha,WI)..i went through the big overhead garage door(un posted)....then while walking around the dealership showroom(armed) i noticed it was posted on the showroom doors....my van was being serviced, so i couldnt go back and put the gun in the van

what do i do?.......i did nothing......and i wont be going back to that dealership...they lost my business....i was afraid to tell them on my way out since i was armed and in violation of the rule(even know they couldnt tell)

uhlawpup
02-05-2012, 10:21
You did the right thing. Telling them would have done no one any good, least of all you.

Just walk away. All that macho posturing you read about in these threads is just that. Vote with your wallet, not your tongue. It's the American way.

huggytree
02-05-2012, 10:24
i found it strange since Waukesha is one of the most conservative area's....when CCW first came out there werent any posted business's around there....now im finding more and more.....its a trend thats going the wrong way.........

i wonder why WI went with such a high fine ($1000) when other states have none or $200.....most postings are so small i dont notice them unless your really looking...or in the case of the Milwaukee Zoo they had the sign 1/2 covered when i went a few months ago.

HandyMan Hugh
02-05-2012, 11:51
I have to disagree. If you don't tell them, then there's no chance for change. Write them a letter or e-mail (respectful but firm) detailing what steps are required to obtain a CCW license. Then ask them to remove the signs. If they say that they will, problem solved. If they say NO, then tell them NO GUNS NO MONEY, and that you will post their decision on gun bulletin
board(s) and with the NRA. Good Luck

RussP
02-05-2012, 12:00
You did the right thing. Telling them would have done no one any good, least of all you.

Just walk away. All that macho posturing you read about in these threads is just that. Vote with your wallet, not your tongue. It's the American way.I have to disagree. If you don't tell them, then there's no chance for change. Write them a letter or e-mail (respectful but firm) detailing what steps are required to obtain a CCW license. Then ask them to remove the signs. If they say that they will, problem solved. If they say NO, then tell them NO GUNS NO MONEY, and that you will post their decision on gun bulletin
board(s) and with the NRA. Good LuckI believe uhlawpup was talking about while huggytree was at the dealership, not afterwards. :cool:

They do need to hear that he'll not be back and why.

kensteele
02-05-2012, 12:04
I think it depends on your state law for signage. If your state has strict rules on how businesses should be posted, I wouldn't bother to inform the business. They can read and understand the law just like anyone else. Perhaps they are purposely mis-posting or maybe they don't really care how it's posted/not important to them. Either way, the post doesn't apply to you (the law-abiding citizen, note I didn't say the morally-abiding citizen or the I-respect-business-owners-rights citizen) and you are free to not return as you said.

In any event, I brought up this [b]exact[b/] situation in "business posted" topic a few years back followed by various comments on how one should handle it. The replies were quite diverse.

nrabnf
02-05-2012, 12:16
Same thing happened to me, wife's physical therapist. Office was posted inside behind the receptionists desk at waist level...and I go waltzing in there with da
wife and go back to the Dr.'s office. If a business want's the premises posted it should be done at the outside entrances in a prominent place. Not sure what the
law is but that would make sense to me. I had to excuse myself and take the
23 out to the truck.
I won't be going back in there again

stollersteve
02-05-2012, 12:39
Kensteele is right. In Texas, the sign has to be certain exact verbage, and the letters have to be one inch high. I've seen several places where they have their own words in small type. I disregard these. Here, the state is not anti concealed carry.

Louisville Glocker
02-05-2012, 12:56
I really like the laws here in Kentucky. The owners can post all they want, but all it means is nothing. It is more of a recommendation, not legally binding. They can ask you to leave, and if you don't then you'll be trespassing. But if you're concealed, no worries, because they'll never know in the first place. (of course a few categories are a no-go, like daycares, schools, courthouses, etc. Those, you'll get busted for).

And yes, if you are going to stop patronizing a business because they don't allow guns, you should sure as heck let them know about it. If they lose enough business, they might start allowing guns. If you don't tell them, they'll never change.

failsafe
02-05-2012, 13:51
I really like the laws here in Kentucky. The owners can post all they want, but all it means is nothing. It is more of a recommendation, not legally binding. They can ask you to leave, and if you don't then you'll be trespassing. But if you're concealed, no worries, because they'll never know in the first place. (of course a few categories are a no-go, like daycares, schools, courthouses, etc. Those, you'll get busted for).

And yes, if you are going to stop patronizing a business because they don't allow guns, you should sure as heck let them know about it. If they lose enough business, they might start allowing guns. If you don't tell them, they'll never change.

Pretty much the same her in MO..No biggie, outed? Leave...
The Missouri CCW is only 7 or so years old..Some businesses put up the signage to prohibit all guns, correct size or not..There were some national stores, like CVS, that did not have a corporate policy on CCW on their premises..A phone call to the head office alerting them to a possible boycot by CCW holders, worked...
The store mgr had taken it upon himself to post the signage..The signage was frozen to the front entrance window's...They got it off in a matter of a few hours..
Voice your displeasure with any business that post's a no CCW sign..

geoemery
02-05-2012, 14:09
I take a simple view, if posted correctly or incorrectly, I avoid their business and don't violate the request. I don't tell them of the ignorance for several reasons. One being the anti-gun bias they have. Secondly, I won't be back if I can help it. Third if the catch anyone, their legal grounds are weaker. Another reason it that about half are incorrect. And finally, if they aren't willing to read the law, why would they listen to me?

huggytree
02-05-2012, 15:16
ok....i just e-mailed the dealership....i admitted in my letter to being armed and the situation they put me in

told them about the new car i bought 10 months ago from them and all the service work ive had in the past. also told them i wont be a customer again until they change their signs

i gave them my name, phone and address......hopefully my admitting to being armed at their dealership wont cause me legal trouble(i assume not)....i asked them to call me to discuss the matter

Waukesha County IS the most conservative place in WI....i find it very strange how any business would put up no firearms signs there....especially a dealership that deals in thousands of dollars per customer....a few customers lost is a major deal...

ill let you all know if they call me tomorrow

Warp
02-05-2012, 16:36
I believe uhlawpup was talking about while huggytree was at the dealership, not afterwards. :cool:

They do need to hear that he'll not be back and why.

Agree with this, I do.

The email sounds like a good plan

xmanhockey7
02-05-2012, 17:08
I wouldn't say anything. If they somehow saw I was carrying I'd say I didn't see any sign but there's not way for you to take it out to your car.

kensteele
02-05-2012, 18:31
Waukesha County IS the most conservative place in WI....i find it very strange how any business would put up no firearms signs there....

this link between conservatism and guns is overrated.

Warp
02-05-2012, 19:12
this link between conservatism and guns is overrated.
Show me a state that voted R in 2008 that is not currently shall issue.

xmanhockey7
02-05-2012, 20:23
this link between conservatism and guns is overrated.

I agree with you. In MI we are 100% R but we cannot get a pro gun bill to even see a committee. Warp does make a good point that states that vote R do have shall issue but I do agree with you that many R are just not pro gun. Granted there are plenty of D who are pro gun. It kinda goes bother ways.

larry_minn
02-05-2012, 20:35
I have talked a few places in MN into removing signs, Changing wording.
One was my bank. Seems they were at a banking training and TOLD it was the ONLY wise thing to do. (Post the bank)
I talked with President and he said. "It is stupid to have the signs up/I will take them down" Which he did.
Same for auto parts store. Thing is I found a better parts store. (I had called them every time I bought parts elsewhere) "Hi, because of your sign I had to go to (NAPA, Champion, Dealership...) and bought starter for $120, Alt for $85, radiator for $250...... Well they changed sign language. Now it says "Illegal" weapons.

Warp
02-05-2012, 20:42
I agree with you. In MI we are 100% R but we cannot get a pro gun bill to even see a committee. Warp does make a good point that states that vote R do have shall issue but I do agree with you that many R are just not pro gun. Granted there are plenty of D who are pro gun. It kinda goes bother ways.

I try to look at it in the most simple terms, to make things more clear.

If they voted R they have shall issue.

Conversely, the list of states that voted D who have may issue or no issue is somewhat long.

A lot of the rest can be explained/predicted based on how long shall issue laws have been on the books. Longer = fewer restrictions and nonsense...and more licensed carriers per capita.

xmanhockey7
02-05-2012, 20:46
I try to look at it in the most simple terms, to make things more clear.

If they voted R they have shall issue.

Conversely, the list of states that voted D who have may issue or no issue is somewhat long.

A lot of the rest can be explained/predicted based on how long shall issue laws have been on the books. Longer = fewer restrictions and nonsense...and more licensed carriers per capita.

You're right I know exactly what you're saying but I do think many people believe if they vote R they're getting a pro gun candidate. And that is just not the case.

Warp
02-05-2012, 20:58
You're right I know exactly what you're saying but I do think many people believe if they vote R they're getting a pro gun candidate. And that is just not the case.

No, it certainly isn't.


While far more likely it is not a sure thing either way.

kensteele
02-05-2012, 21:29
Show me a state that voted R in 2008 that is not currently shall issue.

R does not mean conservative. Hardly.

kensteele
02-05-2012, 21:32
While far more likely it is not a sure thing either way.

Which is what I mean by overrated.

Romney.

alba666
02-05-2012, 22:01
Show me a state that voted R in 2008 that is not currently shall issue.

Alabama is a "May Issue" state at discretion of Sheriff (who may also place arbitrary restrictions on permit on issuance).


Real women have real bodies with lotsa curves so I can hug'em really tight and not get bruises!

Warp
02-05-2012, 22:51
R does not mean conservative. Hardly.

Do you have a better single indicator?

The correlation is too much to ignore. With the slight exception of Alabama every state that voted R is Shall Issue.

Alabama is a "May Issue" state at discretion of Sheriff (who may also place arbitrary restrictions on permit on issuance).


Good catch.

Always forget about Alabama. Any idea how many (any...?) counties are not effectively Shall Issue? Seems you rarely hear from or about somebody in AL getting denied when legally eligeable

Gunhaver
02-05-2012, 23:10
Something worth mentioning in those letters, I'd really like to see the statistics on how many people have refused to do business with a business because they didn't have that sign. Putting up a sign that specifically welcomes CCW holders might chase off a few sheep but I'm 100% certain that those "no guns" signs have only lost places some business, never gained it. Very few people are so anti-gun that they'll only give their money to openly anti-gun business owners. I'm sure most anti-gun business owners put their bottom line before their politics.

mj9mm
02-05-2012, 23:20
what good does it do to keep your gun in the vehicle if it is in the building and a mechanic is working on it, tell them you will wait outside, but they better hurry and next time you will go else where!:whistling:

Bill Lumberg
02-06-2012, 06:25
Carrying on a permit where it's posted = FAIL. At least you'll know next time you go there, assuming you do.

aaronmj
02-06-2012, 06:38
Tagged for the turnout.

writwing
02-06-2012, 15:52
I agree with you. In MI we are 100% R but we cannot get a pro gun bill to even see a committee. Warp does make a good point that states that vote R do have shall issue but I do agree with you that many R are just not pro gun. Granted there are plenty of D who are pro gun. It kinda goes bother ways.

Check again

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

AZson
02-06-2012, 15:55
The last I went into a business with a no guns sign, I told them what I thought.
I have not been back there.

kensteele
02-06-2012, 16:55
Check again

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

Which basically spells out what I am saying. How your state votes (D) or (R) in a general election has little to do with guns and gun laws. Just look at our president. Obama (D) has yet to sign his name on a single anti-gun law in 3 years, going on 4 years. It's an overrated myth not to be relied on by sensible gun owners.

RoundBrown
02-06-2012, 18:42
Show me a state that voted R in 2008 that is not currently shall issue.

true

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kensteele
02-07-2012, 12:10
true

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

haha, since the (D) won the 2008 general election and very few states are not shall-issue, this is hardly a declaration. weak.

HerrGlock
02-07-2012, 12:14
Show me a state that voted R in 2008 that is not currently shall issue.

Alabama. In practice it's shall issue but the law is may issue.

Warp
02-07-2012, 21:21
haha, since the (D) won the 2008 general election and very few states are not shall-issue, this is hardly a declaration. weak.

Not weak. Let's compare.

States that went R who are not shall issue
1. Alabama *In practice basically is shall issue anyway


States that went D who are not shall issue
1. Massachusetts
2. Connecticut
3. New York
4. California
5. Illinois
6.Maryland
7. Delaware
8. New Jersey
9. Hawaii
10. Rhode Island (?)


That's quite a difference. One state vs ten. Oh, and there were more states who went R than D.


So we have the majority of states going R and yet >90% of restrictive states are D

DaneA
02-07-2012, 23:06
What's this thread about again?

Warp
02-07-2012, 23:34
What's this thread about again?

I think right now we are mostly waiting to see if there is a response from the business (car dealership) after one of their customers (the OP) emailed them, RE: Will no longer do business unless the no carry signage/rules are removed.

HerrGlock
02-08-2012, 01:31
I think right now we are mostly waiting to see if there is a response from the business (car dealership) after one of their customers (the OP) emailed them, RE: Will no longer do business unless the no carry signage/rules are removed.

Well and a reminder that if you just quit making use of a business you need to drop them a line and let them know why or they have no clue it's a business practice they can change to get your business again.