Man Shot With His Own Gun [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Man Shot With His Own Gun


twag4
02-06-2012, 00:36
In my town, a man went out of his house armed with a hand gun to find a thief trying to break into his car. He was holding the thief at gun point until police arrived. According to the newspaper, a scuffle ensued, the thief took the gun away from the man, and shot the man in the hand, leg, and abdomen. No kidding! The neighborhood is probably a mile away from my house. My wife was working at the computer, I was in bed, and she came and told me she heard three gunshots. She said the first two were close together, and the third was a couple of seconds later. Why would he let an unarmed man approach him in such a way so as to lose control of his firearm? Seems to me, don't bring it out if you aren't going to use it. I believe he would be justified in shooting the thief if the thief was advancing on him. We have castle law and stand your ground law here in Alabama. The thief was caught and is facing attempted murder charges. The man is in the local hospital and will recover. This is why I carry and why I won't draw unless I am prepared to use. I would have fired at the thief once he charged at me such as in this case. He wouldnt have had a chance to get close enough to take my gun. What do you think?

http://www2.dothaneagle.com/news/2012/feb/02/1/enterprise-man-shot-during-vehicle-break-ar-3159017/

Bucky89
02-06-2012, 00:38
Perhaps he didn't carry one in the chamber and the time it took to cock the weapon gave the criminal the time to grab it?

Or maybe he forgot to take the safety off?

Who knows.


Edit: I think it's funny that this board does not censor the word "cock" but the medical term for male genitalia is censored.

twag4
02-06-2012, 00:45
Perhaps he didn't carry one in the chamber and the time it took to cock the weapon gave the criminal the time to grab it?

Or maybe he forgot to take the safety off?

Who knows.

I have to think if he came out of his house with his gun, he would have it ready to fire. But you could be right. If he was unwilling to fire for just a car, that could be the case. Locked and loaded would be my choice. My glocks dont have that safety problem to worry about. No unnecessary hastles in a stressful situation are good I think.

I0WA
02-06-2012, 00:47
Perhaps he didn't carry one in the chamber and the time it took to cock the weapon gave the criminal the time to grab it?

Or maybe he forgot to take the safety off?

Who knows.


Edit: I think it's funny that this board does not censor the word "cock" but the medical term for male genitalia is censored.

Eh, doesn't matter IMO. He should have just called the cops. The car isn't worth taking a life over. And as the rule goes, if you point it, you had better be ready to shoot. I'm glad he made it though, that's a relief.

Teej
02-06-2012, 00:58
Practice, practice and more "self defensive shooting" instruction practice.

Unfortunately the majority purchasing a firearm for self defense "might" take a basic safety class and shoot some basic paper targets. I would wager an extremely high percentage have not had any self defense scenario training.

When the nerves kick in, the adrenal stress dump floods the body thinking is impared unless someone is properly trained to react and how to react during an emergency situation.

Prayers out to the man and his family.

I0WA
02-06-2012, 01:28
Practice, practice and more "self defensive shooting" instruction practice.

Unfortunately the majority purchasing a firearm for self defense "might" take a basic safety class and shoot some basic paper targets. I would wager an extremely high percentage have not had any self defense scenario training.

When the nerves kick in, the adrenal stress dump floods the body thinking is impared unless someone is properly trained to react and how to react during an emergency situation.

Prayers out to the man and his family.

Much truth to that. You sort of have to know how to deal with the adrenaline, and those that don't have it often, and no familiarization skills to fall back on, it could lead to "brain dead" moments. Or perhaps, he just didnt have the nerve. :dunno:

fuzzy03cls
02-06-2012, 10:49
He may have broken the law anyway. A lot of states have laws against pulling a gun to protect property. Like in FL, you couldn't do this. Holding him at gun point? Another bad decision.

Gunnut 45/454
02-06-2012, 10:59
I love the "Let the criminal get what ever he want mentality" . The guy should have shot the prep then called the cops! Don't pull it unless your going to use it!:faint:

HarleyGuy
02-06-2012, 12:02
THe man (with the gun) should have stayed inside his house and called the police.

Had he shot and unarmed man, even though the man was trying to steal his car he would proabably would have went to jail.

When you approach someone with a gun and attempt to subdue them until the police arrive you force them to make one of thre possible choices:
1. Comply with your order and get on the ground.
2. RUN (then what do you do?)
3. Fight (now you're knee deep in doo-doo!)

Even though the man was shot he's probably much better off than he would have been if he had shot or killed the man who claims was attempting to steal his car.

I hope he fully recovers.

Adjuster
02-06-2012, 12:14
He may have broken the law anyway. A lot of states have laws against pulling a gun to protect property. Like in FL, you couldn't do this. Holding him at gun point? Another bad decision.


Holy crap dude read your statutes. You just embarrassed us down here. We are proud of our castle doctrine and other firearms laws. The only thing we don't have going for us is open carry. Lethal force to protect life and property of ourselves and others.


/

Zeroskillet
02-06-2012, 13:04
Eh, doesn't matter IMO. He should have just called the cops. The car isn't worth taking a life over. And as the rule goes, if you point it, you had better be ready to shoot. I'm glad he made it though, that's a relief.

I agree...the car no matter what it is or has in it(aside from people) is junk as far as Im concerned in comparison to someone's life.

So I take it he is alive? Imagine how bad is could have been, he is lucky the thief did not take the oppurtunity to ran sack the house and possibly kill/injure people inside(ie kids and wife)

eclark53520
02-06-2012, 13:12
If you're in the house and they are not, you do not leave the house.(assuming no one you need to protect is outside). He failed this rule miserably.

If they gain access to the house, you shoot. Otherwise, you wait for the cops.


That said, how the home owner allowed the perp to get close enough to get in a 'scuffle' while he was armed is beyond me.

HKLovingIT
02-06-2012, 13:19
If you're in the house and they are not, you do not leave the house.(assuming no one you need to protect is outside). He failed this rule miserably.

If they gain access to the house, you shoot. Otherwise, you wait for the cops.


That said, how the home owner allowed the perp to get close enough to get in a 'scuffle' while he was armed is beyond me.


That about sums it up.

TBO
02-06-2012, 13:32
If you're in the house and they are not, you do not leave the house.(assuming no one you need to protect is outside). He failed this rule miserably.

If they gain access to the house, you shoot. Otherwise, you wait for the cops.


That said, how the home owner allowed the perp to get close enough to get in a 'scuffle' while he was armed is beyond me.
Maybe he advanced on the perp and held his gun against them, you know, like they do on TV.

Zeroskillet
02-06-2012, 13:50
Maybe he advanced on the perp and held his gun against them, you know, like they do on TV.

ditto.

If you're holding someone at gun point till help arrives you have to leave some buffer or cushion between yourself and the perp.

deputy1199
02-06-2012, 14:32
Or maybe he got too close to the thief he was trying to control. He could have held the guy at gunpoint without getting close enough to allow a struggle, which is exactly what happened. Only a LEO with training and proper restraints (handcuffs) should ga suspectet within arms reach of a suspect in such a situation.

HKLovingIT
02-06-2012, 15:26
He should have just come out shooting like crazy into the air. Maybe the bad guy would have run off. You can do that right? :dunno:

twag4
02-06-2012, 16:53
I understand the "call the police and stay in the house" mentality, but I bet most of you wouldn't actually do that. Replacing a stolen car would not be a pure insurance will cover it event. There is always the deductible, the book value vs the value of the vehicle to replace, the time and trouble. Not only that, if the car is in the driveway then the thief was trespassing. It is criminal trespassing when the intent to break and enter or commit theft is there. I would confront anybody messing with my property. I would do it without revealing the firearm, but I would do it none the less. If the guy ran away then it is a win. If the guy advances towards me, then his loss. If he complied then even better. Probably a baseball bat would have been more suitable to threaten the thief. And yes, the homeowner/car owner is recovering. I guess he should have parked his car in the garage. He is allowed to protect his property. Then if his life is threatened in the process, he can protect himself. The police probably wouldnt get there in time to prevent the theft.

packsaddle
02-06-2012, 17:48
too many people think pointing a gun at a thug equals immediate compliance.

as a law enforcement officer, i can tell you that is absolutely not true.

if a thug will fight an leo at gunpoint, do you really think a thug is going to comply with an ordinary citizen?

folks, there's some really evil people out there.

steveksux
02-06-2012, 18:32
The thought of the insurance company giving ME a check for once.... I'm not sure I want to risk my life to prevent that....

Randy

Deaf Smith
02-06-2012, 18:39
The man who got shot simply let the attacker GET TO CLOSE.

Simple as that.

When you hold someone at bay, keep your distance. When you are within arms reach the other guy does not have necessarily be good, just fast.

Deaf

beatcop
02-06-2012, 18:52
When you read the stories of "cop shoots unarmed man" half of the population is outraged, after all he was turning his life around! Same deal here.

What citizen really wants to drop the hammer? He may have not percieved the seriousness of the crooks actions and hesitated for fear of "shooting an unarmed man". That crook is not closing the distance to give you a hug!

I think some of the stand your ground laws are well intentioned, but does it give you the justification to put yourself in any absurd scenario and have a justification?

Chesafreak
02-06-2012, 18:55
I wouldn't have left the safety of the house to confront a BG over a car. That's what the police are for. My car isn't worth taking a life or giving up mine over it.

PAGunner
02-06-2012, 19:11
He may have broken the law anyway. A lot of states have laws against pulling a gun to protect property. Like in FL, you couldn't do this. Holding him at gun point? Another bad decision.

I agree pulling out was a bad decision, but there was a shooting a bout 5-6 weeks ago here in PBC where a guy shot a scumbag trying to rob his motorcycle from the 2nd floor window of his townhouse. Killed the scumbag and now scumbag's 2 other buddies who were with him are facing felony murder charges.

The guy who did the shooting was not charged, nor will he be facing charges. It's nice to err on the side of caution, especially in a county like PBC where the DA is a libtard who is looking to hang someone, but if the guy in the OP's link had shot the scumbag in FL, he wouldn't be facing charges.

Toetag
02-06-2012, 19:25
I think I'd be inclined to shoot said carjacker. A lot of people have had it with this kinda stuff, I'm one of them.
Both of our vehicles are garage parked for a reason........

steveksux
02-06-2012, 19:57
You really paint yourself into a corner once the gun comes out. If you're hesitant to shoot an unarmed guy for stealing your car, don't put him at gunpoint. If he figures that out and starts advancing, its going to be a deadly force situation once he's close enough, and Tueller drill suggests "too close" is a lot farther out than you'd think. So if he keeps coming, sooner or later you're going to have to shoot an unarmed man, or back away. Backing away may not be altogether too intimidating, could lead to other issues. Somehow I dont' think a guy that went out with a gun to confront a robber is going to back off if the threat of the gun doesn't gain compliance.

Got to think of the endgame before you start and don't just do the first thing that comes into your head.

You can only hold a guy at gunpoint if he complies. If he doesn't, you probably either have to let him go if he's leaving, or shoot him if he advances. That's not the time to try to remember your states laws on deadly force against unarmed people. Its too late then. If the state frowns on it, you shouldn't have left the safety of the house. If its Texas you should have shot him with a rifle from the balcony... :tongueout: Just kidding, that's not legal advice... :rofl:

Randy

HarleyGuy
02-07-2012, 00:38
Packsaddle makes some very good points.

On duty cops have handguns, long guns, radios, asps, mace, tasers, handcuffs as well as bullet proof vests and many backup officers coming to their aid and still at times they are faced with someone who just doesn't respect the law, their authority or society in general and will intentionally force them into a physical confrontation.---Look no farther that the 99%ers!

A lot of criminals and thugs are also smarter that you may think and they know that "we" could get into trouble if we shoot them if they are not armed with a gun, knife or some other type of weapon.

It is my understanding that in Florida those of you who have a concealed weapons license may legally carry something more than a pistol.
Not so in my state of Michigan, so all we are allowed to have to defend ourselves with is 10% pepper spray and a lethal weapon.
An asp, IMO would be a much better choice for self defense against an unarmed man buteven that poses some tatical and legal risks to the law abiding victim.

Someone trying to steal my car, truck or bike is one thing.
But trying to carjack me, especially if my wife is in the car with me is a totally different issue.

JuneyBooney
02-07-2012, 00:44
Perhaps he didn't carry one in the chamber and the time it took to cock the weapon gave the criminal the time to grab it?

Or maybe he forgot to take the safety off?

Who knows.


Edit: I think it's funny that this board does not censor the word "cock" but the medical term for male genitalia is censored.

:rofl:But cock is also a male rooster. You did mention what could have very well happened.

tshadow6
02-07-2012, 02:50
Before one decides to carry a weapon, one must decide what one is willing to kill a human being for. Myself, I am willing to shoot to protect human life, that is it. Not a car, not an empty house, not money. If I see someone breaking into my car, or my house, (if I know none of my family is home) I will simply be a "real time" witness. If someone threatens me or a member of my family with grave bodily harm, that is a different story.

I0WA
02-07-2012, 03:53
Before one decides to carry a weapon, one must decide what one is willing to kill a human being for. Myself, I am willing to shoot to protect human life, that is it. Not a car, not an empty house, not money. If I see someone breaking into my car, or my house, (if I know none of my family is home) I will simply be a "real time" witness. If someone threatens me or a member of my family with grave bodily harm, that is a different story.

Eh, if they're breaking into my house and I'm in it they're going to take two to the chest at the very least. If they're willing to break in while I'm home that means they're willing to hurt whoever is inside as well. Now my car? Unless I had something in there worth killing over(unlikely) id just call the cops and arm myself.

Sent from my Evo Shift -Tapatalk

SCmasterblaster
02-07-2012, 12:00
The guy going for the gun is an act of serious deadly force. If I am ever holding a felon at gunpoint and he went for my gun, he would get shot - several times

voomie
02-07-2012, 12:06
It may be a pain to deal with insurance claims but it is more of a pain to deal with murder charges for shooting an unarmed man. I know my state (ohio) allows defense of life but not defense of property. It stinks but the state says property can be replaced but life cannot. So the only reason why I would draw and fire would be to save my life or the life of someone on the short list of people dear to me.

fuzzy03cls
02-07-2012, 13:52
Holy crap dude read your statutes. You just embarrassed us down here. We are proud of our castle doctrine and other firearms laws. The only thing we don't have going for us is open carry. Lethal force to protect life and property of ourselves and others.


/
um, you may need to reread them....only applies to your home & your car with you in it or other area you reside in. If the bg had no weapon & your not in fear of great bodily harm or death you can not pull a gun.

SigFTW
02-07-2012, 13:59
I understand the "call the police and stay in the house" mentality, but I bet most of you wouldn't actually do that. Replacing a stolen car would not be a pure insurance will cover it event. There is always the deductible, the book value vs the value of the vehicle to replace, the time and trouble. Not only that, if the car is in the driveway then the thief was trespassing. It is criminal trespassing when the intent to break and enter or commit theft is there. I would confront anybody messing with my property. I would do it without revealing the firearm, but I would do it none the less. If the guy ran away then it is a win. If the guy advances towards me, then his loss. If he complied then even better. Probably a baseball bat would have been more suitable to threaten the thief. And yes, the homeowner/car owner is recovering. I guess he should have parked his car in the garage. He is allowed to protect his property. Then if his life is threatened in the process, he can protect himself. The police probably wouldnt get there in time to prevent the theft.

I understand your point. However, my instructor lost one of his students (Pistol self defiance) because he went out to confront thieves who were stealing stuff out of his garage. When he went out to confront the thieves he did not see the lookout guy and was shot dead. He left behind a wife and 2 kids and the thieves were never cough. Was it worth his life to save some money? My instructor said itís not worth the risk over stuff and I have to agree with him. Not because of killing some thieves, itís because of the risk involved to your self.

Just because you have a gun does not mean you will be in control of the situation.

HarleyGuy
02-07-2012, 14:03
The guy going for the gun is an act of serious deadly force. If I am ever holding a felon at gunpoint and he went for my gun, he would get shot - several times

I remember watching a TV program years ago and they were doing a ride-a-long with a Michigan State Trooper and the trooper siad something that has stuck with me ever since.
He said that "anytime he goes on a call there's always a gun there because he takes it there".

Choosing to place yourself in close proximity with a (possible) felon while you are armed opens up a lot of possibilities, including being your being charged as a felon yourself or possibly facing a civil lawsuit, bot of which means a lot of $ in lawyer fees.

Quite simply, if you do not have to get involved in any situation to protect innocent life (and you had better be sure of who you are protecting) stay out of it.
If a piece of property is valuable enough to shoot some over it, it should be insured.
If you are caught up in an armed robbery, observe all that you can to be a good witness, but by all means stay out of unles you have no choice but to become involved.

As part of a line from one of Larry Gatlin's song says "trying to be hero, ending up a zero can scar a man forever" couldn't be any more prophetic.

PAGunner
02-07-2012, 14:30
It is my understanding that in Florida those of you who have a concealed weapons license may legally carry something more than a pistol.
Not so in my state of Michigan, so all we are allowed to have to defend ourselves with is 10% pepper spray and a lethal weapon.
An asp, IMO would be a much better choice for self defense against an unarmed man buteven that poses some tatical and legal risks to the law abiding victim.

That is correct, concealed weapons or firearms license in FL, CWFL, although to get the license you need to prove that you can at least shoot a handgun, you don't have to prove competency with any other weapon.

Lord
02-09-2012, 21:17
In TX, the use of deadly force is authorized. Not that I would (can't say I know for sure unless I'm in the situation), but it IS authorized.

LApm9
02-10-2012, 16:58
:rofl:But cock is also a male rooster. You did mention what could have very well happened.

Personally, I find that using my index finger is far more efficient.

ScottieG59
02-12-2012, 01:27
I think many like to think they know how these things will play out. Personally, if someone were to mess with one of my vehicles in the driveway, I would establish a defensive position within the house and contact the police. It is just not wise to charge into the unknown and be confronted by the unknown. If I were to be injured or killed, my wife and kids would be defenseless. Additionally, I understand the police will possible be very slow, if they respond at all. In any event, I reserve my use of force to establishing a defensive position.

A long time ago, I decided that if a thief wants my vehicle, my only desire is that I do not get it back afterward. I have insurance and I do not leave my kids alone in or near my vehicles.

Additionally, though I am in a rural area, many neighbors have kids that sneak out at night. I have found them in my yard more than a few times. Many of the kids prefer to walk through yards rather than on the street due to the danger of being hit by cars. Some of the kids are looking for trouble as well, but it is usually something like ringing the doorbell and running.

ithaca_deerslayer
02-12-2012, 04:52
too many people think pointing a gun at a thug equals immediate compliance.

as a law enforcement officer, i can tell you that is absolutely not true.

if a thug will fight an leo at gunpoint, do you really think a thug is going to comply with an ordinary citizen?

folks, there's some really evil people out there.

From the non-LEO perspective, and purely based on tv training, the nice thing about your position when confronting a bad guy is that you've got body armor, handcuffs, a neat walkie talkie, and some buddies ready to get up in the middle of the night to come over and help you. You and your buddies get a chance to train together and can walk the streets every night practising what you learned on real people in real situations. You also get to have cool lights on your car to get to your friends in a hurry.

Me, if I'm gonna confront a bad guy, I'm pretty much on my own, with no prior experience in that real life situation. While I can mow my own lawn, and change the oil in my car, this might be one of those times to call for a professional.

As long as it is just a car, and not a loved one in danger, the loss of the car even without insurance is less expensive than many of the likely outcomes if I muck up the type of situation that can result from drawing a gun.

Jake Starr
02-12-2012, 05:59
From the non-LEO perspective, and purely based on tv training, the nice thing about your position when confronting a bad guy is that you've got body armor, handcuffs, a neat walkie talkie, and some buddies ready to get up in the middle of the night to come over and help you. You and your buddies get a chance to train together and can walk the streets every night practising what you learned on real people in real situations. You also get to have cool lights on your car to get to your friends in a hurry.

Me, if I'm gonna confront a bad guy, I'm pretty much on my own, with no prior experience in that real life situation. While I can mow my own lawn, and change the oil in my car, this might be one of those times to call for a professional.



Too true. But even professionals need all the help they can get. I am one of the fortunate ones. I manage one of the few ranges in the country that has a FATS that is available to LEOs and civilians. I have trained both with it. The professionals are often hesitant in certain scenarios but most make the right decisions...but civilians? Difference is like night and day...most just stand there and get "killed."

So easy to say what one would do while sitting at a keyboard...but doing it is another story.

CDR_Glock
02-12-2012, 06:16
He should have just called the police.

It is not our job to detain someone committing an act that doesn't involve violence.


iPad/Tapatalk

Dexters
02-12-2012, 06:20
If you're in the house and they are not, you do not leave the house.(assuming no one you need to protect is outside). He failed this rule miserably.

If they gain access to the house, you shoot. Otherwise, you wait for the cops.


That said, how the home owner allowed the perp to get close enough to get in a 'scuffle' while he was armed is beyond me.

Good advise.


And if you do go outside with your gun,


Don't forget the pepper spray.

Darkangel1846
02-12-2012, 09:29
the home owner probibly hesitated because he didn't really want to shoot someone over stolen properity. A carried gun is your ACE in the hole .....never draw it unless you plan to actually use it.

glockaviator
02-12-2012, 09:34
Take their PHOTOGRAPH!

SevenSixtyTwo
02-12-2012, 09:50
I was going out to my truck to get my GPS unit to play with and out of the dark I was confronted by someone who was breaking into my truck. He turned toward me and started to advance as I was telling him to stop. I was in real fear for my life so I fired my self defense weapon several times until the threat was stopped.

Or, I'm some weenie with my first handgun and I heard a noise so I ran outside to scare the errant young lad into leaving and learning his lesson so he could turn his life around and he took my gun and shot me several times. Why was he so mean?