Alaska as a safe haven in case of SHTF?? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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IndianaMatt
02-06-2012, 10:51
Wife and I are planning a move to Alaska (for reasons entirely unrelated to SHTF preparedness). Specifically, the Anchorage area (both our jobs demand we be somewhat near a decent-sized town).

How is Alaska in general, and Anchorage in particular as a bug out location? I know there isn't much sun for growing your own food (I hear potatoes do very well, though) or living off solar panels year-round. But, all things considered, how would you fare in this state if things in the lower 48 really go downhill?

Thanks!

arclight610
02-06-2012, 10:56
Alaska has to get alot of stuff shipped to them. What if these shipments stop? Milk, vegetables, ect

IndianaMatt
02-06-2012, 10:58
Alaska has to get alot of stuff shipped to them. What if these shipments stop? Milk, vegetables, ect

This is absolutely true. In many ways, the state is not exactly self-sufficient, especially for food. But perhaps the fact that its population density is lowest of all the states would offer some solace from wandering, roving, pilaging hordes escaping big cities like Chicago, Los Angeles, or Dallas?

Keoking
02-06-2012, 11:21
But perhaps the fact that its population density is lowest of all the states would offer some solace from wandering, roving, pilaging hordes escaping big cities like Chicago, Los Angeles, or Dallas?

I assure you, that in a SHTF situation, the first things to get hoarded in Dallas will be IPhones, TVs, and alcohol. It will be weeks before the general population discovers that you can't wipe your ass with a laptop.

PettyOfficer
02-06-2012, 11:51
I assure you, that in a SHTF situation, the first things to get hoarded in Dallas will be IPhones, TVs, and alcohol

If I had to guess, in a SHTF scenario, cellular services would crash due to nobody maintaining them. The internet would collapse as soon as power goes out. Cell phones and computers will be useless.

cheapshot
02-06-2012, 12:02
If I had to guess, in a SHTF scenario, cellular services would crash due to nobody maintaining them. The internet would collapse as soon as power goes out. Cell phones and computers will be useless.
Yuup.

Breadman03
02-06-2012, 12:19
It will be weeks before the general population discovers that you can't wipe your ass with a laptop.
I wish I could counter your statement, but I can't. :rofl:

Atomic Punk
02-06-2012, 12:21
If I had to guess, in a SHTF scenario, cellular services would crash due to nobody maintaining them. The internet would collapse as soon as power goes out. Cell phones and computers will be useless.

as long as there is no big emp event. my laptop will be extremely useful. i have a massive library of survival, medical, and how to books on mine. and its a rather low power consumption device, i have gotten 10 hours straight of use on battery. bonus on a netbook. low power use, and recharges quickly.

wherever you are. get a paper library. the one on my laptop is light and was very cheap. but paper books last. i expand my paper library as i can afford it.

IndianaMatt
02-06-2012, 12:38
While the foregonig discussion on computer hardware as bathroom accoutrements is certainly enlightening, I was hoping somebody could address my original post.

cowboy1964
02-06-2012, 12:48
Unless you're living in the middle of nowhere and are entirely self-sufficient, I don't really see much of an advantage. A lot depends on the specific SHTF scenario (as it always does). But yes, almost anywhere in Alaska would be infinitely better than NYC or Los Angeles but not necessarily better than say Wyoming or Montana or the Dakotas.

IndianaMatt
02-06-2012, 13:02
By my count, here's some pros and cons of hiding away in the great AK:

Pros-
1) Geographically removed from any major city and so from wandering hordes of starving, roving gangs,
2) Geograhically far removed from US/Mexico border. The implications of that benefit in time of social collapse are so obvious, I won't get into them,
3) Not a big concentration of urban poor, who would essentially turn to animals during SHTF,
4) Very abundant fresh water supplies,
5) Decent supply of game meat, at least more in the interior,
6) Not a likely target in case of nuclear war or major terrorist attack, and
7) SPACE - lots of space to get away in case of plagues, epidemics, etc.

Cons-
1) Very short growing season for producing your own food,
2) Not much usuable sunlight most of the year to generate solar power,
3) If whatever government remains after SHTF to distribute aid, Alaska will probably be towards the bottom of the list of priority,
4) Harsh winters will make it tough going without ready supply of fuel, diesel, gasoline.

911brute
02-06-2012, 13:07
Please don't come to Alaska...

RMTactical
02-06-2012, 18:52
Yeah, live like the Kilchers.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/alaska-the-last-frontier-meet-the-kilcher-family.html

Atomic Punk
02-06-2012, 23:11
Yeah, live like the Kilchers.

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/alaska-the-last-frontier-meet-the-kilcher-family.html

that is pretty cool.

jrayharder
02-06-2012, 23:15
I lived in Anchorage for a while. There are two roads out of town. Both could be easily closed, one of them is occasionally closed because of avalanche. It's surrounded by the inlet and the mountains.

There are a lot of people in the Anchorage area. Wild game will disappear quickly.

Crime is bad and getting worse.

The scenery is great and if you like skiing, fishing, off roading, snowmachining, camping, etc. you have a lot of choices, anywhere from a short drive to a very long one.

You pay out the nose for anything shipped in.

lawman800
02-06-2012, 23:19
It's been made a subject of enough survival movies like Resident Evil: Apocalypse. Escape to Alaska, there's no infection.

Javelin
02-06-2012, 23:51
Please don't come to Alaska...

This is how I envision many GT'ers going out during a disaster.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/ZOMG.jpg

lawman800
02-07-2012, 00:00
Tactical wheelbarrow FTW!

Raiden
02-07-2012, 00:01
I remember there being an online site that let you put in a zipcode, and it would rate your risk during a nuclear conflict. I was a little surprised to see Anchorage was actually at high risk. I guess proximity to several threats, Elmensdorf AFB, Fort Richardson and several other early-warning radar installations make it a more-likely target.

smokeross
02-07-2012, 00:12
I know there isn't much sun for growing your own food

Thanks!
Yeah that 24 hour sunlight isn't much. Ever heard of the MatSu Valley? Some of the best farming in the nation goes on there.
But like another poster stated, you should probably stay away. We have enough Commandos already.

smokeross
02-07-2012, 00:18
This is how I envision many GT'ers going out during a disaster.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/ZOMG.jpg
This seriously looks like a guy who came out on a trip to one of my remote cabins. He had it all. He even wanted me to take a 2 way radio with me when I walked away from the cabin (to get away from him) so we could stay in contact. I was literally still within earshot of the cabin and he was calling me on the radio.

Javelin
02-07-2012, 00:26
This seriously looks like a guy who came out on a trip to one of my remote cabins. He had it all. He even wanted me to take a 2 way radio with me when I walked away from the cabin (to get away from him) so we could stay in contact. I was literally still within earshot of the cabin and he was calling me on the radio.

:rofl:

Well this guy in the pic decided Diet Cokes were of higher priority.

:wavey:

cowboy1964
02-07-2012, 08:07
I remember there being an online site that let you put in a zipcode, and it would rate your risk during a nuclear conflict. I was a little surprised to see Anchorage was actually at high risk. I guess proximity to several threats, Elmensdorf AFB, Fort Richardson and several other early-warning radar installations make it a more-likely target.

How about Nome?

bdcochran
02-07-2012, 08:24
1. what is your physical conditioning?
2. what are your social skills?
3. what are your survival skills?

When you look in the mirror and honestly answer those three questions, you have your answers - regardless of where you live.

Civilization is built on job/occupational specializations. How many people lived in the Anchorage area 200 years ago. Assuming that a person had the basic survival skills of a person in that area 200 years ago (a very big assumption), that is how it would shake out in time, unless the people in Anchorage were still able to engage in occupational specialization.

The foregoing truisms are routinely overlooked by armchair survivalists.

If things really breakdown, forget the Rambo stuff. Look at the injuries and illnesses people had 200 years ago. They would crop up again. So you will have farming injuries (largely eyes, untreated cuts, untreated rotator cuffs) and be disabled for life. You will have epidemics, dirty water, and poor hygiene. You will have famine.

When a guy has a wife (no kids) in a survival situation, it can be like a three legged potato sack race or at best two people watching each other's backs. If your wife has zero skills, you aren't going to impart them fast enough. If you are 45 years old, haven't exercised regularly since high school, and have a baby in front (despite being a male), you aren't going to make it.

Look in the mirror and adjust accordingly.:faint:

Tom Kanik
02-07-2012, 08:53
I spent three weeks vacation in Alaska in 1990, specifically around the Anchorage area with a week camping/fishing around the Kenai peninsula. At the time, I believe the population of Anchorage was 250 thousand, and growing. As people were moving/building east of town into the mountains there were more and more problems with bear encounters etc.
We were there the second two weeks of August and first week of September, and it had already snowed!:shocked: The MatSu valley if famous for their gigantic vegetables, but it is very limited and would probably be one of the first areas ravaged by hungry hordes. Also, Alaska has more than its share of "unsavory" folks trying to hide from the Law, and not exactly the kind of neighbors you would want. As has been pointed out, everything that has to be shipped in is VERY expensive; you need to have a lot of money to live "the good life". Regarding the Kilchers, which I watched on television; think all the equipment they have and use is free?

While I enjoyed my vacation there, I don't think that I would want to live there. And I don't think that most folks today are ready for the hardships they would encounter there, even in peaceful times.

JDMitchell
02-07-2012, 09:29
I think you meant 250 THOUSAND. If 250 million lived in Anchorage back 1990 then Alaksa would have so many problems that they wouldn't know what to do.

Captain Caveman
02-07-2012, 09:30
If I had to guess, in a SHTF scenario, cellular services would crash due to nobody maintaining them. The internet would collapse as soon as power goes out. Cell phones and computers will be useless.


People with common sense know this. But there is a huge percentage of the population who would think..."HEY!!! FREE TV'S!!!"

Bilbo Bagins
02-07-2012, 09:42
This is how I envision many GT'ers going out during a disaster.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/ZOMG.jpg

I love how tubby has Diet Coke in his mag pouches. Gotta watch that figure. :rofl:

Alaska is nice, but I don't think its any safer in Anchorage then in other cities.

Alaska has a lot of problems.

High earthquake activity

History of Tsunami activity

There are a bunch of Volcanoes in Alaska

Anchorage is like any US city, it has lots of people, crime, drugs, economic problems.

You are the first stepping stone in a Russian or Chinese invasion (they are going to want that oil)

If the Ice Age comes back, or there is a nuclear winter, bad asteroid hit, or epic volcanic eruption that blots out the sun for a while, you will be truely screwed.

You have a somewhat short growing season.

Almost Everything is shipped in.

smokeross
02-07-2012, 09:48
I spent three weeks.... Alaska has more than its share of "unsavory" folks trying to hide from the Law, and not exactly the kind of neighbors you would want.... you need to have a lot of money to live "the good life". I don't think that I would want to live there.... for the hardships even in peaceful times.
Jeez, another EXPERT on Alaska. And after only 3 weeks, 20 years ago.:faint: BTW, I'm reporting you to my 'unsavory' neighbors.:rofl:

RMTactical
02-07-2012, 09:50
This is how I envision many GT'ers going out during a disaster.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a291/elliot308/ZOMG.jpg

He is gonna need way more coke than that.

bdcochran
02-07-2012, 09:52
I looked up the population density of Anchorage. Yeah, I know, there are wide open spaces in Alaska (but only two roads in and out with one closed in some winters-a minor detail). Population 153 per square mile in 2000. I rather doubt that are enough native foods and animal life in that square mile to support the 153 people for a week.

When shtf, I expect that people fantasize that they will drive their off road vehicles out 50 miles and just live off the land. Why not, people living in the lower 48 on this website fantasize the same.

Looking in the mirror. 1963. A friend and I (I am 17) throw some guns in the car along with fishing gear and go to the High Sierras to fish and camp out. It is the start of fishing season. There is no where to park. Will be the same for people fleeing Anchorage and looking for a parking spot.

1981 or so. My late wife and I go to the High Sierras for the first day of hunting season. The news report is that there are 80,000 hunters in that area on the first day. There is a hunting party at every possible turnout. The snows are largely absent that year so you can travel the spine of the Sierras by passenger car. What about 260,000 people fleeing Anchorage during the snowy parts of the year?

I am not a negative person. I just don't deny the reality that there are over 310,000,000 people in this country and if shtf, 309,999,998 (not my girlfriend!) will have the same needs and ability to think about what they are going to do.

smokeross
02-07-2012, 10:21
I looked up the population density of Anchorage. Yeah, I know, there are wide open spaces in Alaska (but only two roads in and out with one closed in some winters-a minor detail). Population 153 per square mile in 2000. I rather doubt that are enough native foods and animal life in that square mile to support the 153 people for a week.

When shtf, I expect that people fantasize that they will drive their off road vehicles out 50 miles and just live off the land. Why not, people living in the lower 48 on this website fantasize the same.

Looking in the mirror. 1963. A friend and I (I am 17) throw some guns in the car along with fishing gear and go to the High Sierras to fish and camp out. It is the start of fishing season. There is no where to park. Will be the same for people fleeing Anchorage and looking for a parking spot.

1981 or so. My late wife and I go to the High Sierras for the first day of hunting season. The news report is that there are 80,000 hunters in that area on the first day. There is a hunting party at every possible turnout. The snows are largely absent that year so you can travel the spine of the Sierras by passenger car. What about 260,000 people fleeing Anchorage during the snowy parts of the year?

I am not a negative person. I just don't deny the reality that there are over 310,000,000 people in this country and if shtf, 309,999,998 (not my girlfriend!) will have the same needs and ability to think about what they are going to do.
You must have been sleeping in math class. Alaska consists of 586,412 square miles. There are an estimated 722,190 folks as of 2012. That is nearly 1 square mile per person. Not 153 per square mile.

rwrjr
02-07-2012, 10:50
You must have been sleeping in math class. Alaska consists of 586,412 square miles. There are an estimated 722,190 folks as of 2012. That is nearly 1 square mile per person. Not 153 per square mile.

I think he gave the pop density of Anchorage, not the entire state. Whole different animal. Your numbers assume an even distribution over the entire area of the state which is invalid.

Deployment Solu
02-07-2012, 11:41
Yeah that 24 hour sunlight isn't much. Ever heard of the MatSu Valley? Some of the best farming in the nation goes on there.
But like another poster stated, you should probably stay away. We have enough Commandos already.


Not to mention some of the largest (size) cabbages and pumpkins!! The Matanuska Valley also had a dairy when I was living there. And anyone who has lived there knows what the largest CASH crop in the valley is!!! LOL!!!:rofl:

Seriously, if you have NEVER been in minus 35 to -65 degree temperatures with a heat source, you can't even imagine what it would be like if the SHTF!!!!

cowboy1964
02-07-2012, 11:43
You must have been sleeping in math class. Alaska consists of 586,412 square miles. There are an estimated 722,190 folks as of 2012.

Irrelevant since most of that area is basically uninhabitable for all intents and purposes.

Deployment Solu
02-07-2012, 11:58
Double Post.

sebecman
02-07-2012, 12:40
Irrelevant since most of that area is basically uninhabitable for all intents and purposes.

You are correct, almost any one in tents and dare I say all porpoises could not live there. :supergrin:

Seriously though, you make a very valid point. People that live there like to say their state is the biggest, but size isn't always best.

smokeross
02-07-2012, 16:20
Irrelevant since most of that area is basically uninhabitable for all intents and purposes.
Hey. The guy from Ohio says it is uninhabitable up here, so stay away. Nothing to see here. Keep out. The place is full already.

cowboy1964
02-07-2012, 17:12
Only 5.3% of Alaska is inhabited (no permanent population). If anyone thinks they want to try living in the other 94.7%, knock yourself out!

smokeross
02-07-2012, 17:44
Only 5.3% of Alaska is inhabited (no permanent population). If anyone thinks they want to try living in the other 94.7%, knock yourself out!
That's right. Stay off my 94.7%. That is the part I ride the snow scoot on. It's all mine.

Keoking
02-07-2012, 17:54
If I had to guess, in a SHTF scenario, cellular services would crash due to nobody maintaining them. The internet would collapse as soon as power goes out. Cell phones and computers will be useless.

If I weren't so lazy, I would post some pics of Lootie (that guy stealing beer during the Katrina flooding in New Orleans). Common sense is anything but common, and I would not expect it to show up in Dallas until the beer runs out.

lawman800
02-07-2012, 22:04
1. what is your physical conditioning?
2. what are your social skills?
3. what are your survival skills?

When you look in the mirror and honestly answer those three questions, you have your answers - regardless of where you live.

Civilization is built on job/occupational specializations. How many people lived in the Anchorage area 200 years ago. Assuming that a person had the basic survival skills of a person in that area 200 years ago (a very big assumption), that is how it would shake out in time, unless the people in Anchorage were still able to engage in occupational specialization.

The foregoing truisms are routinely overlooked by armchair survivalists.

If things really breakdown, forget the Rambo stuff. Look at the injuries and illnesses people had 200 years ago. They would crop up again. So you will have farming injuries (largely eyes, untreated cuts, untreated rotator cuffs) and be disabled for life. You will have epidemics, dirty water, and poor hygiene. You will have famine.

When a guy has a wife (no kids) in a survival situation, it can be like a three legged potato sack race or at best two people watching each other's backs. If your wife has zero skills, you aren't going to impart them fast enough. If you are 45 years old, haven't exercised regularly since high school, and have a baby in front (despite being a male), you aren't going to make it.

Look in the mirror and adjust accordingly.:faint:

You know how many armchair survivalist Rambo dreams you squashed with that post?:whistling:

lawman800
02-07-2012, 22:06
People with common sense know this. But there is a huge percentage of the population who would think..."HEY!!! FREE TV'S!!!"

Even when the signal goes out and they are staring at snowflakes... it will take them some time to realize maybe they need to loot something else.:supergrin:

Tom Kanik
02-07-2012, 22:33
I think you meant 250 THOUSAND. If 250 million lived in Anchorage back 1990 then Alaksa would have so many problems that they wouldn't know what to do.

You are absolutely correct; thanks for pointing that out. I went back and changed that to 250,000.:embarassed:

Tom Kanik
02-07-2012, 22:39
Jeez, another EXPERT on Alaska. And after only 3 weeks, 20 years ago.:faint: BTW, I'm reporting you to my 'unsavory' neighbors.:rofl:


I don't claim to be an "expert", I was merely pointing out my observations from 20 years ago. Some of the "unsavory neighbors" I was referring to were some Hell's Angels, who enjoyed raising Hell in an otherwise fairly quiet area.:upeyes:

smokeross
02-07-2012, 22:48
I don't claim to be an "expert", I was merely pointing out my observations from 20 years ago. Some of the "unsavory neighbors" I was referring to were some Hell's Angels, who enjoyed raising Hell in an otherwise fairly quiet area.:upeyes:
"WHEW" My neighbors and myself all ride. Me on a Victory, them on Harleys. (I leave them in the dust, Haha, Harley guys) and we raise Hell, but we're not Angels. The only unsavory types in this neighborhood are the non riders.

TangoFoxtrot
02-08-2012, 07:14
Wife and I are planning a move to Alaska (for reasons entirely unrelated to SHTF preparedness). Specifically, the Anchorage area (both our jobs demand we be somewhat near a decent-sized town).

How is Alaska in general, and Anchorage in particular as a bug out location? I know there isn't much sun for growing your own food (I hear potatoes do very well, though) or living off solar panels year-round. But, all things considered, how would you fare in this state if things in the lower 48 really go downhill?

Thanks!

I would say way too much isolation from the lower 48 if the SHTF. Remember all their goods come from the lower 48. Besides its like a 3rd world country and too cold.

Captain Caveman
02-08-2012, 07:38
Even when the signal goes out and they are staring at snowflakes... it will take them some time to realize maybe they need to loot something else.:supergrin:


Yup. And that's when those of us who prepare for the unexpected, must be prepared to defend what we have stored and, ahhhh, liberated ourselves. :supergrin:

lawman800
02-08-2012, 08:31
"WHEW" My neighbors and myself all ride. Me on a Victory, them on Harleys. (I leave them in the dust, Haha, Harley guys) and we raise Hell, but we're not Angels. The only unsavory types in this neighborhood are the non riders.

I have no problems with Victory or other cruisers riding off fast into the sunset because they have to hide their shame that they are not on a Harley. They think if they ride off really fast, then people won't be able to see that they are not on a Harley and think they might be Harley riders.:supergrin:

Besides, you cruise slower so you can scope out the ladies... and stop to talk to them to offer rides.:tongueout:

<--- Harley rider

smokeross
02-08-2012, 09:45
I would say way too much isolation from the lower 48 if the SHTF. Remember all their goods come from the lower 48. Besides its like a 3rd world country and too cold.
I already have all my 'goods' and a refinery 7 miles down the road. Most likely when things are upside down in the lower 48, our utilities will still be running. Electricity produced by natural gas. Homes heated by natural gas, and wood stoves. I have stored fuel, wood, ect. So where do your 'goods' come from? Your postage stamp sized lawn? I have millions of acres of wilderness out my door and the ability to access it year round. My friends own airplanes, and boats. Even sail boats capable of trans ocean travel. The lower 48 is the LAST place I would want to be.

mac66
02-08-2012, 15:38
Sarah Palin lives in Alaska, that's all I need to know about it. If it is good enough for her, it is good enough for me. :supergrin:

lawman800
02-09-2012, 08:53
Sarah Palin lives in Alaska, that's all I need to know about it. If it is good enough for her, it is good enough for me. :supergrin:

Don't retreat, reload!

My kind of woman.