Why is 10mm so expensive? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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clogspecialist
02-07-2012, 23:44
I understand that the 10mm auto is sort of "rare" or exotic, but even though not many handguns are chambered for it, it should not be $33 a box of 50! the lowest ive ever gotten it was about a year ago.... CCI blazer (aluminum case) 200gr fmj going 1050fps. at that time the cost was $24 a box of 50, now that same box is about $30. not to mention self defense/hunting ammo can be as much as $40 a box of 20! thats just wallet rape. anyways because of these prices i havent been able to shoot my glock that much. have only had it for a year and only 400rds down the pipe, 100 of those being cci blazer, the rest being crappy (but accurate) federal american eagle (dirtiest ammo i have ever experienced). so i am highly considering getting into reloading. will ammo prices ever go back down, or will the current copper costs and value of the dollar going down continue to negatively effect the prices of basic bang bang?

PrecisionRifleman
02-07-2012, 23:50
Your simply not buying it at the right place. Check around online, but if you really want full power ammo at reasonable prices start handloading.

Tiro Fijo
02-07-2012, 23:50
...or will the current copper costs and value of the dollar going down continue to negatively effect the prices of basic bang bang?


Ammo prices have NEVER gone back to where they were in history. Has a Big Mac? An auto? Historically speaking, ammo is cheaper today than in the 1800's relative to buying power. Example: the average monthly wage in the 1870's was about $20 and 1,000 rds. of Win. 44-40 cost $40 or better, i.e., TWO months entire salary. Besides, you will never be able to be a good shot shooting only factory fodder. You'll go broke first. Reloading saves money AND you can make better ammo. :wavey:

PrecisionRifleman
02-07-2012, 23:52
Ammo prices have NEVER gone back to where they were in history. Has a Big Mac? An auto? Historically speaking, ammo is cheaper today than in the 1800's relative to buying power. Example: the average monthly wage in the 1870's was about $20 and 1,000 rds. of Win. 44-40 cost $40 or better, i.e., TWO months entire salary. Besides, you will never be able to be a good shot shooting only factory fodder. You'll go broke first. Reloading saves money AND you can make better ammo. :wavey:

Very true. Factory ammo is far to expensive to really be able to spent time with your weapon like you should in order to become really proficient with it.

MinnesnowtaWild
02-08-2012, 00:00
Judging by all your frustrated posts about your G20 (grips too big, ammo too expensive) you should consider selling it or trading it for a different gun.

LASTRESORT20
02-08-2012, 00:06
`Its Well Worth It.....G20SF`

Wonder140
02-08-2012, 00:30
For SD ammo, go Underwood. I personally use their ammo for range days too. Great price, fantastic power.

I saw on palmetto armory that they have some stuff for 17-18 bucks a box of 50. Probably not a hot round but if you want cheap ammo, there you go.

Problem solved.

alwaysshootin
02-08-2012, 05:14
HERE YOU GO!

http://www.underwoodammo.com/

fredj338
02-08-2012, 10:40
so i am highly considering getting into reloading. will ammo prices ever go back down, or will the current copper costs and value of the dollar going down continue to negatively effect the prices of basic bang bang?
You'll not see a lot of drop in ammo prices because the copper & lead goes down a bit. The increases are as much a part of the high fuel prices that affect everything & the falling dollar as the raw mat'l.
You answered your own question, the 10mm is a cult cartridge w/ few guns being made for it. A good round for sure, but so is the 41mag, price ammo for that bad boy! It's always about supply & demand & there just isn't that much deman for 10mm ammo to justify breakign down commercial equip & running off small batches, so it's expensive. Priced 25acp lately?:dunno: Yeah, 10mm, like any of the magnum rounds, is a handloaders prop if you want the best performance & cheapest cost.

K1500
02-08-2012, 10:44
Hmmmm...BVAC works out to around $19 per box at CTD.

English
02-08-2012, 11:11
10mm is priced high so that only a better quality of people use it.

Either that or it is supply and demand but that would be a boring explanation.

English

dtuns
02-08-2012, 11:15
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-10mm

clogspecialist
02-08-2012, 12:03
HERE YOU GO!

http://www.underwoodammo.com/

I THINK YOU HAVE SHOWED ME THE LIGHT!

but seriously these are very good prices, and the reviews show nothing but excellence. As long as they dont get backed up for months like Reed's ammo, i will be ordering from this company for a while. i also like that this ammunition isnt "watered down" like the rest of the factory ammo available.

clogspecialist
02-08-2012, 12:06
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-10mm

these prices arent bad at all, the cheapest is obviously the "Right to bear Ammo", but this company seems shady, never heard of them before, nor seen anyone talk of them

clogspecialist
02-08-2012, 12:08
`Its Well Worth It.....G20SF`

If i could magically swap my regular G20 for a 20SF i definently would, although there couldnt be very much of a difference in grip size, might be enough to make my accuracy a WEE bit better

OctoberRust
02-08-2012, 18:43
If i could magically swap my regular G20 for a 20SF i definently would, although there couldnt be very much of a difference in grip size, might be enough to make my accuracy a WEE bit better


if your accuracy is being handicapped by that grip, then it's time for a new gun. Even if it's in a smaller caliber. Using caliber as a substitute for skill may land you in a whole world of hurt if god forbid you ever have to use that firearm to protect yourself.

clogspecialist
02-08-2012, 19:16
if your accuracy is being handicapped by that grip, then it's time for a new gun. Even if it's in a smaller caliber. Using caliber as a substitute for skill may land you in a whole world of hurt if god forbid you ever have to use that firearm to protect yourself.

One of the reasons i went with a glock is because of affordability, in the same price range my only other considered firearm in the price range would be a ruger gp100, or maybe a cheapo 1911-which i shoot best

Wonder140
02-08-2012, 19:23
If i could magically swap my regular G20 for a 20SF i definently would, although there couldnt be very much of a difference in grip size, might be enough to make my accuracy a WEE bit better

I have the 20sf. I held both before I purchased it. The 20sf was a big difference imo. The 20 feels like a 2x4 in my hand while the 20sf feels just right. If the 20 is to big, others are right, you will not shoot it properly and your accuracy will suffer.

In any event, your price complaint was handled.

Roering
02-08-2012, 19:27
I understand that the 10mm auto is sort of "rare" or exotic, but even though not many handguns are chambered for it, it should not be $33 a box of 50! the lowest ive ever gotten it was about a year ago.... CCI blazer (aluminum case) 200gr fmj going 1050fps. at that time the cost was $24 a box of 50, now that same box is about $30. not to mention self defense/hunting ammo can be as much as $40 a box of 20! thats just wallet rape. anyways because of these prices i havent been able to shoot my glock that much. have only had it for a year and only 400rds down the pipe, 100 of those being cci blazer, the rest being crappy (but accurate) federal american eagle (dirtiest ammo i have ever experienced). so i am highly considering getting into reloading. will ammo prices ever go back down, or will the current copper costs and value of the dollar going down continue to negatively effect the prices of basic bang bang?

Sounds to me like a certain someone didn't think their firearm purchase through very carefully Hmmmmm?

PrecisionRifleman
02-08-2012, 19:28
The 20sf grip is quite a bit smaller than the regular g20. If Glock didn't make the SF I would have sadly not been able to own a 10mm Glock. The difference for me is significant.

Edit : honestly if your not happy with it sell it. Us 10 ringers love the 10mm, and none of us want bad publicity for the round since we all want to see the popularity grow. Just like any other firearm its not for everyone. Sell the thing and try an SF model or get a 9mm. That should solve your complaints.

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OctoberRust
02-08-2012, 19:35
One of the reasons i went with a glock is because of affordability, in the same price range my only other considered firearm in the price range would be a ruger gp100, or maybe a cheapo 1911-which i shoot best


But if you were on a budget, why would you get something in 10mm? You knew that was going to be the most expensive didn't you? Kind of negates the purpose to being on a budget imo...

PrecisionRifleman
02-08-2012, 22:17
But if you were on a budget, why would you get something in 10mm? You knew that was going to be the most expensive didn't you? Kind of negates the purpose to being on a budget imo...

Off topic for a minute: Nice signature line, and to add to that you shouldn't get a tax "return".

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 06:54
Off topic for a minute: Nice signature line, and to add to that you shouldn't get a tax "return".

Thanks ;) But my previous posts are out of curiosity. I'm not sure why you'd get 10mm for "economical" reasons. I'll just leave it at this - calibers below the 10 are fine, and even better in some circumstances. If you don't reload, I don't see any significant advantage the 10mm has over the 9/40/45.

Wonder140
02-09-2012, 10:36
Thanks ;) But my previous posts are out of curiosity. I'm not sure why you'd get 10mm for "economical" reasons. I'll just leave it at this - calibers below the 10 are fine, and even better in some circumstances. If you don't reload, I don't see any significant advantage the 10mm has over the 9/40/45.

Really? Check out Underwood ammo. Their numbers make it a far superior round vs 9/40/45 and it's very inexpensive at that for SD loads.

JimIsland
02-09-2012, 10:53
I have a G20 and G33(357 Sig.) and yes.....ammo is expensive IF you don't know where to buy it.

Wallmart .357 Sig box of 50 FMJ 32.98
Underwood .357 Sig. box of 50 HP 16.50

LGR 10mm box of 50 FMJ 32.95
Georgia Arms 50 HP 21.50
Georgia Arms 1000 rounds 360.00

You've got to shop around but I agree with others here, if you aren't accurate with your G20, look into something like a Gen 4 G17. Not as powerful but that means nothing if you can't hit what you are aiming at!!!

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:02
Thanks ;) But my previous posts are out of curiosity. I'm not sure why you'd get 10mm for "economical" reasons. I'll just leave it at this - calibers below the 10 are fine, and even better in some circumstances. If you don't reload, I don't see any significant advantage the 10mm has over the 9/40/45.

Far from true. I can push 180gr XTP's in my 6.02" LWD barrel at 1400fps without exceeding max published book load. This load generated a whopping 783.3 FT LB's of energy. Even pushing this load in the stock glock barrel generates 1300fps for a still very impressive 675.4 FT LB's of energy. I can't think of any load in 9,40, or 45 that comes close to this kind of performance. I also would never take any of those calibers hunting deer or hogs, but I did drop a doe last season with my G20SF pushing that same 180gr XTP @ 1300fps. To say the 10mm doesn't offer anything that the 9,40,45 offers is a false statement. The 10mm is in another class from those calibers (Magnum class). So comparing it to a 357 Magnum or a 41 Magnum is much more appropriate, and it falls in between the 2 in terms of power.

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 11:02
Really? Check out Underwood ammo. Their numbers make it a far superior round vs 9/40/45 and it's very inexpensive at that for SD loads.


For SD loads?
Let's talk about practice loads, that simulate the felt recoil of SD loads. After all my argument is training, not caliber. You can find speer lawman that mimics gold dot's felt recoil for 200$ per 1k rounds. Find me somewhere that mimics the ballistics for a practice round that's even 300$ per 1k for 10mm.......

clogspecialist
02-09-2012, 11:06
Sounds to me like a certain someone didn't think their firearm purchase through very carefully Hmmmmm?

I dont know about you, but I cannot for see into the future. I thought for weeks straight about the purchase before i did so, and the gun was comfortable to hold and grip, however accuracy just wasnt there

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:06
For SD loads?
Let's talk about practice loads, that simulate the felt recoil of SD loads. After all my argument is training, not caliber. You can find speer lawman that mimics gold dot's felt recoil for 200$ per 1k rounds. Find me somewhere that mimics the ballistics for a practice round that's even 300$ per 1k for 10mm.......

You can buy 10mm warm loads & practice loads for the same price you can 45 Auto. For factory fodder I I'll occasionally pick up a box of BVAC 180gr JHP when I haven't any handloads on tap, and there is basically no price difference between that and BVAC 45 auto 230gr JHP. Georgia Arms also makes 10mm in quantity for about the same price as 45 Auto last time I checked.

If you want to shoot the larger calibers your are simply going to spend more money than you would in a 9mm. If you can't afford to feed a 45 or a 10mm then the 9mm is probably your best choice. Nothing wrong with a 9mm for SD, but it's not going to be able to fill the wide variety of roles like a 10mm can obviously.

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 11:09
Far from true. I can push 180gr XTP's in my 6.02" LWD barrel at 1400fps without exceeding max published book load. This load generated a whopping 783.3 FT LB's of energy. Even pushing this load in the stock glock barrel generates 1300fps for a still very impressive 675.4 FT LB's of energy. I can't think of any load in 9,40, or 45 that comes close to this kind of performance. I also would never take any of those calibers hunting deer or hogs, but I did drop a doe last season with my G20SF pushing that same 180gr XTP @ 1300fps. To say the 10mm doesn't offer anything that the 9,40,45 offers is a false statement. The 10mm is in another class from those calibers (Magnum class). So comparing it to a 357 Magnum or a 41 Magnum is much more appropriate, and it falls in between the 2 in terms of power.


My argument was if your accuracy is hurting, why sacrifice accuracy for caliber? After all shot placement and penetration is number 1 and 2 in the importance factor of incapacitation.

Then there's the part where you mentioned the budget constraint you were under. That's why I asked why'd you go with an expensive caliber if you are budgeted. That limits your practice, which is after all the most important factor to the weapon.

Don't get me wrong, if you handload, and have a fair amount of time and money, the 10mm is great. If you don't, then not so much.

FWIW if I was hunting, I'd bring a different gun (right tool for the job) and use a wheel gun in .44 magnum, even though recently I've seen deer dropped with a 124 gr +P gold dot out of a glock 19.

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 11:11
You can buy 10mm warm loads & practice loads for the same price you can 45 Auto. For factory fodder I I'll occasionally pick up a box of BVAC 180gr JHP when I haven't any handloads on tap, and there is basically no price difference between that and BVAC 45 auto 230gr JHP. Georgia Arms also makes 10mm in quantity for about the same price as 45 Auto last time I checked.

If you want to shoot the larger calibers your are simply going to spend more money than you would in a 9mm. If you can't afford to feed a 45 or a 10mm then the 9mm is probably your best choice. Nothing wrong with a 9mm for SD, but it's not going to be able to fill the wide variety of roles like a 10mm can obviously.


Warm loads for 350-380 per 1k?

That's fine, but you mentioned you bought a glock because of budget issues. If you don't have budget issues anymore, and still suffer from the g20's big grip, get another gun in 10mm, one you shoot your best with.

That is what I was thinking and lead me to these posts.

clogspecialist
02-09-2012, 11:12
But if you were on a budget, why would you get something in 10mm? You knew that was going to be the most expensive didn't you? Kind of negates the purpose to being on a budget imo...

yes i knew it was going to be expensive, but i just had to have the ballistic superiority. And i had planned on starting reloading the 10mm, the 10mm is not the problem here guy, its the size of the grip on my glock. heck if someone offered to trade me a colt delta elite or other 10mm 1911 for my glock i would in a heartbeat. i shoot 1911's very well.

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:15
I dont know about you, but I cannot for see into the future. I thought for weeks straight about the purchase before i did so, and the gun was comfortable to hold and grip, however accuracy just wasnt there

Might be the particular gun as I posted in your thread talking about this. So you've shot the G20 1 time, and you claim it to be inaccurate? Have you tried a different lot of ammo and even then ammo from another manufacturer to make sure you didn't get a crappy batch of loads? Have you tried having someone else shoot it to see if it's the gun or you? If you have removed those factors and determine the problem is the gun then ship it to Glock and they will make it right. Don't complain on here until you are sure it's not you or a bad batch of ammo. My G20SF is a tack driver for a pistol and hits where I aim even at 100 yards (no hold over). Also try holding an SF model. You may find that it fits you a lot better. I personally can't shoot the full size model for crap, but I'm a dead eye with my 20SF. Before you invest in a firearm it's a good idea to rent the model you are interested in and see if it's for you, then compare it to other choices. That's how I knew the regular 20 wasn't for me even though I wanted a 10mm really bad. Once the SF model came out I was quick to get one, and shoot it really well. If the size of the grip isn't a factor for you (confirmed by firing a G20SF), then look into the other possible problems, and above all send the thing back to Glock if you find its the gun. Stuff happens, don't judge the caliber on a possible bad apple, and if that is the case all manufacturer produce bad apples from time to time. I'm betting it's not the gun however.

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:18
Warm loads for 350-380 per 1k?

That's fine, but you mentioned you bought a glock because of budget issues. If you don't have budget issues anymore, and still suffer from the g20's big grip, get another gun in 10mm, one you shoot your best with.

That is what I was thinking and lead me to these posts.

What are you talking about. I said nothing about budget issues or anything about the grip. My 20SF is the best feeling grip out of all the Glocks I own. If I had budget issues I wouldn't own and feed a Sako TRG42 300WM nor have topped it with NightForce Optics... :rofl:

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:21
My argument was if your accuracy is hurting, why sacrifice accuracy for caliber? After all shot placement and penetration is number 1 and 2 in the importance factor of incapacitation.

Then there's the part where you mentioned the budget constraint you were under. That's why I asked why'd you go with an expensive caliber if you are budgeted. That limits your practice, which is after all the most important factor to the weapon.

Don't get me wrong, if you handload, and have a fair amount of time and money, the 10mm is great. If you don't, then not so much.

FWIW if I was hunting, I'd bring a different gun (right tool for the job) and use a wheel gun in .44 magnum, even though recently I've seen deer dropped with a 124 gr +P gold dot out of a glock 19.

Check your facts. NEVER did I say anything about poor accuracy, budget constraints, or anything negative about my 20SF. Not one time, and never would I. My G20SF is my favorite handgun, and the one I'm most accurate with (I'll feed my 10mm any day of the week before my 40S&W that I am considering selling and replacing with a G29SF). BTW I have plenty of PROPER firearms to hunt with Rem 700 LTR in 308, Sako TRG 42 300 WM, and 870 12 gauge. However the 10mm is LEGAL to hunt with using a 6" barrel, and it does a dang fine job having PLENTY of power to drop deer and hogs when using warm to full power loads. :upeyes: I like using the G20SF because it makes hunting challenging as I get tired of making head shots on deer with my 700 LTR 308. It just takes all the fun out of hunting because it's so easy.

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 11:42
Check your facts. NEVER did I say anything about poor accuracy, budget constraints, or anything negative about my 20SF. Not one time, and never would I. My G20SF is my favorite handgun, and the one I'm most accurate with (I'll feed my 10mm any day of the week before my 40S&W that I am considering selling and replacing with a G29SF). BTW I have plenty of PROPER firearms to hunt with Rem 700 LTR in 308, Sako TRG 42 300 WM, and 870 12 gauge. However the 10mm is LEGAL to hunt with using a 6" barrel, and it does a dang fine job having PLENTY of power to drop deer and hogs when using warm to full power loads. :upeyes: I like using the G20SF because it makes hunting challenging as I get tired of making head shots on deer with my 700 LTR 308. It just takes all the fun out of hunting because it's so easy.

The accuracy thing was directed toward the person I was originally speaking to. He says the large grip reduces his accuracy. We were on the topic of clogspecialist after all.

Reading comprehension? How does it work...... :upeyes:

You want a challenge? Hunt deer with a 124 gr gold dot +P then. I've seen seasoned hunters drop deer dead in their tracks with that round. I mean you're all for a "challenge" right? :upeyes: Ahhhhh it's probably not tacticool enough for you though, oops!

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 11:55
Reading comprehension? You don't make sense. If you quote a poster then you need to clarify who you are directing your post to when you change to a different person mid post. I was questioning your reading comprehension when you made post that appeared directed to myself.

BTW 9mm in any loading is illegal to hunt deer with. 10mm IS legal to hunt deer with. BIG difference!

Lets drop this before the thread gets locked.

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Rumbler_G20
02-09-2012, 12:14
Just when you thought things were about to calm down, I've got an opinion:

"10MM ammo is so expensive for the same reason lottery tickets sell so well; It is a tax on people bad at math."

The "there is insufficient demand" argument holds absolutely no water at all. Want proof? Call Starline at 660-827-6640 and listen to them laugh at you when you try to float that theory. Call ANY manufacturer of .40/10MM bullets and ask if they are experiencing slow sales in that caliber.

No, if there is a rational explanation for the price of 10MM it is because folks are so bad at math they are incapable of figuring out that any way you slice it, if you are going to shoot enough 10MM in a handgun to maintain "self defense level" proficiency, it is cheaper to get into reloading and build your own ammo.

And that "self defense level" implies defense against both 2 and 4-legged critters.:tongueout:

OctoberRust
02-09-2012, 12:18
Reading comprehension? You don't make sense. If you quote a poster then you need to clarify who you are directing your post to when you change to a different person mid post. I was questioning your reading comprehension when you made post that appeared directed to myself.

BTW 9mm in any loading is illegal to hunt deer with. 10mm IS legal to hunt deer with. BIG difference!

Lets drop this before the thread gets locked.

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The topic I was discussing had the OP in mind, after all we are in his thread. I was quoting you, since you were replying to me to begin with.

forum threads; how do they work?!?!!? :upeyes:

PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 12:19
As previously mentioned 45 cost the same as 10mm. Atleast at my local Cheaper than Dirt. I love the 45 almost as much as 10mm, but in order to practice a lot with either I hsndload for both. I agree with your conments in terms of practice. The 10mm or even 45 isn't for everyone soley in terms of cost.

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PrecisionRifleman
02-09-2012, 12:24
I understood that from your last post. Thanks..

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CanyonMan
02-09-2012, 14:40
Ammo prices have NEVER gone back to where they were in history. Has a Big Mac? An auto? Historically speaking, ammo is cheaper today than in the 1800's relative to buying power. Example: the average monthly wage in the 1870's was about $20 and 1,000 rds. of Win. 44-40 cost $40 or better, i.e., TWO months entire salary. Besides, you will never be able to be a good shot shooting only factory fodder. You'll go broke first. Reloading saves money AND you can make better ammo. :wavey:


Pretty cool reply amigo. Man I never knew you were old enough to remember the good old days ! :supergrin:



The average true working ranch cowhand today, on a real working ranch, don't make much more than $40.00 per day and found. haha. Gotta reload your own ! ha.

Most of that salary goes for Custom spurs and tack and jeans, and goin to town once or twice a month or less. Married guys get just a touch more, but not much. Seems times (in some ways) haven't changed to much.

"My own family" started me out (when out of school and 'full time' cowboying) at $300.00 per month, and a bunk house and found.

I ain't gained much more ground since then. (kidding).





Stay safe amigo !












CM

fredj338
02-09-2012, 18:55
yes i knew it was going to be expensive, but i just had to have the ballistic superiority. And i had planned on starting reloading the 10mm, the 10mm is not the problem here guy, its the size of the grip on my glock. heck if someone offered to trade me a colt delta elite or other 10mm 1911 for my glock i would in a heartbeat. i shoot 1911's very well.
It's likey you'll never shoot the Glock as well as the 1911 if that is your best gun. I pop back & forth between several guns & always go back to the 1911 platform for my best shooting. I have yet to find a GLock I like, but haven't tried the F yet.
Cost of ammo has NEVER been a consideration for a gun. Just reload, yeah, it's about that simple. Reload 10mm full power ammo for less than the cost of cheap factory 9mm.:dunno:

CanyonMan
02-09-2012, 23:45
It's likey you'll never shoot the Glock as well as the 1911 if that is your best gun. I pop back & forth between several guns & always go back to the 1911 platform for my best shooting. I have yet to find a GLock I like, but haven't tried the F yet.
Cost of ammo has NEVER been a consideration for a gun. Just reload, yeah, it's about that simple. Reload 10mm full power ammo for less than the cost of cheap factory 9mm.:dunno:



Fred, hey buddy. As you know i am a M1911 freak 110%. I have Glocks of all types and revolvers and , and , and.... But I shoot the 1911's and revolvers better than the Glocks. As far as finding a Glock I like, the little G36 45acp is my favorite so far and I am getting 905fps through that little tube with my 230gr XTP hand loads. Plenty good for that small gun.

But like I've always said, nothin like a well made hog leg, or a well made M1911. Love 'em both. And yor right. Reloading is the only way to go, and especially with the 10mm of which I have two of them.


Just dropping buy amigo.



Stay safe man.








CM

greenlion
02-10-2012, 16:16
Historically speaking, ammo is cheaper today than in the 1800's relative to buying power. Example: the average monthly wage in the 1870's was about $20 and 1,000 rds. of Win. 44-40 cost $40 or better, i.e., TWO months entire salary.

Just curious where you found the price of a 1000 round lot of 44-40 winchester from the 1800's... ???

shotgunred
02-12-2012, 10:42
10mm is priced high so that only a better quality of people use it.

Either that or it is supply and demand but that would be a boring explanation.

English

Why is 40 so much cheaper? The only difference is just a tiny bit of brass.

By the way I can reload the 10mm for $15. a hundred or $7.50 for your box of 50.

That is with current reloading component prices.

clogspecialist
02-12-2012, 11:50
Might be the particular gun as I posted in your thread talking about this. So you've shot the G20 1 time, and you claim it to be inaccurate? Have you tried a different lot of ammo and even then ammo from another manufacturer to make sure you didn't get a crappy batch of loads? Have you tried having someone else shoot it to see if it's the gun or you? If you have removed those factors and determine the problem is the gun then ship it to Glock and they will make it right. Don't complain on here until you are sure it's not you or a bad batch of ammo. My G20SF is a tack driver for a pistol and hits where I aim even at 100 yards (no hold over). Also try holding an SF model. You may find that it fits you a lot better. I personally can't shoot the full size model for crap, but I'm a dead eye with my 20SF. Before you invest in a firearm it's a good idea to rent the model you are interested in and see if it's for you, then compare it to other choices. That's how I knew the regular 20 wasn't for me even though I wanted a 10mm really bad. Once the SF model came out I was quick to get one, and shoot it really well. If the size of the grip isn't a factor for you (confirmed by firing a G20SF), then look into the other possible problems, and above all send the thing back to Glock if you find its the gun. Stuff happens, don't judge the caliber on a possible bad apple, and if that is the case all manufacturer produce bad apples from time to time. I'm betting it's not the gun however.

I never stated that i shot it once, i shot it on about 6 seperate occasions, only twice being at indoor ranges. I handed it to my dad to shoot while i was shooting his kimber, he did a LOT better than me with it, his hands are a good amount larger. and about finding one to rent, dont see how that would be possible, i bet there are probly maybe 5 shooting ranges in North America that would have a rental Glock 20, let alone a 20sf. the problem most definently is not the firearm. I knew the 20sf would have been a better bet but i had to go far out to even find a regular 20sf. i think i will aquire 100more rounds and determine if it is worth keeping and working with, if not im going to look to trade it for a springfield mil-spec or G.I 1911

PrecisionRifleman
02-12-2012, 12:04
I never stated that i shot it once, i shot it on about 6 seperate occasions, only twice being at indoor ranges. I handed it to my dad to shoot while i was shooting his kimber, he did a LOT better than me with it, his hands are a good amount larger. and about finding one to rent, dont see how that would be possible, i bet there are probly maybe 5 shooting ranges in North America that would have a rental Glock 20, let alone a 20sf. the problem most definently is not the firearm. I knew the 20sf would have been a better bet but i had to go far out to even find a regular 20sf. i think i will aquire 100more rounds and determine if it is worth keeping and working with, if not im going to look to trade it for a springfield mil-spec or G.I 1911

Sounds like you've identified the problem. I didn't buy my 20SF locally because you as you mentioned they aren't the most common to be found. Buying online is always an option, but luckily I got mine straight from the Glock factory as a trade in on my the problematic G30SF I had. Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your 20. Try not to knock the gun or the caliber if the problem isn't the gun. That model just may not be for you. Are you used to fired a handgun with the amount of recoil the 10 can dish out? It's not that bad, but if your mostly used to 9mm then it will take some getting used to.

Taterhead
02-12-2012, 15:05
Why is the 10mm auto so expensive? Simple production cost accounting theory will explain why:

The price of ammo includes raw materials, direct labor, profit, regulations, production overhead, energy and setup costs.

All but the setup costs will be very close to say, 40 S&W. Afterall, 40 and 10 are produced the same way, and they share the same projectiles. There is a small difference in primer, powder, and brass costs; but not enough to explain the huge difference in price.

In a mass-production environment, setup is expensive. The costs of setup must be spread over the total units produced. Since 10mm is produced in smaller batches, a larger share of setup overhead must be shared by each round. Also, there is an opportunity cost in play. The producer could otherwise keep production running and produce cartridges that are in higher demand. There is a certain premium required for a plant to stop production of a more popular round and incur the cost of setup to make a production run of a less popular round. They charge a premium to do so.

Why do 10mm owners want more demand for 10mm ammo? Afterall, the laws of supply and demand explain that increased demand causes an increase in equilibrium price. However, if the demand curve shifted, that would pressure prices to increase and potentially lead to market shortages. This would encourage a shift in the long-term supply curve via increased investment in 10mm production. Depending upon exactly how the demand and supply curves shifted this would result in increased production at potentially a new lower market equilibrium price.

All right. Everyone wake up! Nap time is over.

clogspecialist
02-14-2012, 21:24
Sounds like you've identified the problem. I didn't buy my 20SF locally because you as you mentioned they aren't the most common to be found. Buying online is always an option, but luckily I got mine straight from the Glock factory as a trade in on my the problematic G30SF I had. Sorry to hear you are having trouble with your 20. Try not to knock the gun or the caliber if the problem isn't the gun. That model just may not be for you. Are you used to fired a handgun with the amount of recoil the 10 can dish out? It's not that bad, but if your mostly used to 9mm then it will take some getting used to.

I have only shot a 9mm a couple of times, i am used to shooting .45acp handguns most, but i have fully decided i am willing to trade ole G20 for a new springfield G.I or Mil-spec, or a used high quality 1911. ammo is a LOT more available and when the time comes, i know i can trust a .45 slug to drop an attacker. Or a deer if the economy shuts down (damn you china!!!!)

clogspecialist
02-14-2012, 21:25
Why is the 10mm auto so expensive? Simple production cost accounting theory will explain why:

The price of ammo includes raw materials, direct labor, profit, regulations, production overhead, energy and setup costs.

All but the setup costs will be very close to say, 40 S&W. Afterall, 40 and 10 are produced the same way, and they share the same projectiles. There is a small difference in primer, powder, and brass costs; but not enough to explain the huge difference in price.

In a mass-production environment, setup is expensive. The costs of setup must be spread over the total units produced. Since 10mm is produced in smaller batches, a larger share of setup overhead must be shared by each round. Also, there is an opportunity cost in play. The producer could otherwise keep production running and produce cartridges that are in higher demand. There is a certain premium required for a plant to stop production of a more popular round and incur the cost of setup to make a production run of a less popular round. They charge a premium to do so.

Why do 10mm owners want more demand for 10mm ammo? Afterall, the laws of supply and demand explain that increased demand causes an increase in equilibrium price. However, if the demand curve shifted, that would pressure prices to increase and potentially lead to market shortages. This would encourage a shift in the long-term supply curve via increased investment in 10mm production. Depending upon exactly how the demand and supply curves shifted this would result in increased production at potentially a new lower market equilibrium price.

All right. Everyone wake up! Nap time is over.

Thank you sir, now THIS is an answer, im guessing you took business class :thumbsup: