Power went out. Phone doesn't work. Car wont' start. You are at work. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DoctaGlockta
02-09-2012, 09:07
What do you do next?

Syclone538
02-09-2012, 09:16
To answer the question, the next thing I do is walk home.


“I’m thinking that Suzy is right. Something IS really wrong!” Jim exclaimed. He looked at Mark, “Are you thinking
what I’m thinking?”
“EMP?”
Jim nodded his head.

20South
02-09-2012, 09:22
Everyone knows you go looting.

20South
02-09-2012, 09:23
“I’m thinking that Suzy is right. Something IS really wrong!” Jim exclaimed. He looked at Mark, “Are you thinking
what I’m thinking?”
“EMP?”
Jim nodded his head.

..and hence "The Karate Man" was born...

Breadman03
02-09-2012, 09:40
Stay at work. Might as well stay on the job in case the lights come back on. If the boss says go home, bum a ride or use my feet.

SFCSMITH(RET)
02-09-2012, 09:42
Hmmm.. wake up from a nightmare? WTF am I doing at work??

stricky
02-09-2012, 09:55
What happened? Meaning if all electronics are dead... EMP, or am I out of gas and a car hit the unility pole out front?

If it is an EMP we follow our family plan. I start hoofing it to the kids school to grab them and we all meet at home.

smokeross
02-09-2012, 09:55
Steal a bicycle.

kirgi08
02-09-2012, 10:33
Grab the bag and hop on the bike.'08.

wjv
02-09-2012, 10:36
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet/Sorcerer.jpg

+

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet3/442-a2.jpg

+

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i303/bcvojak/RVNet02/A5_.jpg

Captain Caveman
02-09-2012, 10:44
IF it's a SHTF situation...

Family knows the plan.

Cars will start since they are older 4x4's WITHOUT computers.

Phones don't matter since the family knows the plan.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best...


If it's not SHTF...Stay at work until shift is over and go home.

Javelin
02-09-2012, 10:47
I'd go to Starbucks & have a cup of coffee while it's still hot. ;)

trashcat
02-09-2012, 11:05
Head down the food establishment on campus and drink the beer before it gets warm.

This really isn't that rare where I live, we have a local power plant and only one fibre link the rest of the world. If there's a storm or a car crashes into a pole and some yahoo 150 mile away cuts the fibre with a backhoe AGAIN everything goes down. I also drive an old truck.

Deployment Solu
02-09-2012, 11:27
Everybody in my AO knows the plans and what to do. We have prepared and have a plan. Wait to see what is happening to see what we do next.
An emergency is not the time to be learning new skills.

Unistat
02-09-2012, 11:29
I work at a local P.D. We have a giant Deisel generator with a very large amount of fuel. When I'm done with my shift, I walk two miles down the road and start my bug-in procedures (if warranted.)

cowboy1964
02-09-2012, 11:36
It entirely depends on what is going on.

Commander_Zero
02-09-2012, 11:40
What do you do next?

Close the shop, put on my coat, walk home.

Bilbo Bagins
02-09-2012, 11:45
You know, some people mentioned Stealing bikes and Looting in good fun, but I wonder how much time you have after the EMP hits to freely ride that bike or a scooter until you get clotheslined or swarmed by desperate people.

I'm about 15 mile from home so its.

Bicycle - maybe 45 minutes

Scooter - 2 1/2 hours

Brisk Walking - 5 Hours

wjv
02-09-2012, 11:59
I wonder how much time you have after the EMP hits to freely ride that bike or a scooter until you get clotheslined or swarmed by desperate people.

I'm about 15 mile from home so its.

Bicycle - maybe 45 minutes

Scooter - 2 1/2 hours

Brisk Walking - 5 Hours

That's why I'll have 2 pistols with me.

I have NO desire to shoot anyone BUT. . . .

I am the only one in my family who is "in to" prepping, guns and such. If I die or can't make it home, the chances of my wife and daughters surviving goes down drastically.

Therefore if someone attacks me while I'm trying to get home, they are posing a direct threat to my family. Hence I WILL defend my ability to get home (18 miles). As in, self defense. Not as in seeing someone with something I want or could use and killing them to steal what they have.

Fortunately most of the way home for me is rather rural. Lots of back (45 mph) country roads so the closer I get to home, the less likely I am to run into mobs of desperate people.

If I could fit a bike into the trunk of my Rio I would, but not even one of those folding bikes would fit. Probably if my trunk was 100% empty, but then I'd have to figure out a place for all the other stuff.

My trunk is 50% full of "get home" supplies. No I won't be able to take it all with me, so I'll leave what ever I don't need for others to use. I have a lot of stuff that I may or may not use. If it's summer I'll leave the tarp shelter kit and rain gear behind and just rely on my Heat Sheets for night time warmth and protection from the elements. If it's winter, I'll be wearing the rain gear and taking the shelter kit with. And the scooter might get left behind as they are not that safe to ride in the rain. .

I would hope to be able to get home in just one day. At first I would say, get out of work FAST and move FAST. Most people will spend an hour or two speculating with co-workers about "what's happening". 95% of them will probably have never heard of EMP. If the power is out and my computer/phone/car are dead, I'll leaving as fast as I can gear up.

Once people realize how bad things really are, then you will need to slow down.

- stop
- scan the area in front of you for problems
- proceed with caution
- repeat

If it gets bad, you might want to shelter during the day and travel at night.

I have a compass and a detailed map of the county with me. I also have an LED flash light, a small radio and batteries all wrapped several times in heavy foil. Maybe that will protect them from the EMP. . . Maybe not

If the radio is working, it might be useful to tell you if "the event" is local or national. A good AM radio at night can pick up signals via "skip" from many hundreds of miles away. And with no local stations on the air, reception should be easy if there are other stations out there.

20South
02-09-2012, 18:29
You know, some people mentioned Stealing bikes and Looting in good fun, but I wonder how much time you have after the EMP hits to freely ride that bike or a scooter until you get clotheslined or swarmed by desperate people.
...



I lived in SE NC at one point in my life and we had a small tornado blow through our town and take down power. According to the news reports, looting started just a few hours after.

jdavionic
02-09-2012, 18:37
Grab my stuff and walk home. Fortunately I live relatively close to work. I also keep a GHB in my vehicle 24/7.

My family is very predictable on where they will be during the week. We are very busy, but very close to home. It would depend on the time of day as to whether I stopped to get them along the way or just met them at home.

Keoking
02-09-2012, 18:59
What do you do next?

In this order:
1. Shoot someone with a working car and take theirs.
2. Get the kids from school and wife from work.
3. Hit the grocery and stock up. Shoot anyone who interferes.
4. Get home at all costs.
5. Pray to God that this is the TEOTWAKI, because if it isn't, you'll be doing some hard time, son.

quake
02-09-2012, 19:37
In this order:
Shoot someone with a working car and take theirs...

...Hit the grocery and stock up. Shoot anyone who interferes.

...Pray to God that this is the TEOTWAKI...

I'm not the most thorough theologian in the world, but I suspect that the prayer circuits may be full of static; having just off-handedly murdered people who were simply deemed to be "in the way" or had something that you wanted.

UtahIrishman
02-09-2012, 19:44
It really depends on the individual situation. But assuming nothing comes back alive after say thirty minutes or so, it's time to walk home. About fifteen miles, so it's going to take a while.

My wife knows the drill...she'll stay put and not answer the door for anyone. Other than that, keep a low profile on the walk home and avoid trouble when ever possible.

wjv
02-09-2012, 20:01
In this order:



1. Post about illegal activities
2. Post about illegal activities
3. Get banned for life. . . .

Lone Kimono
02-09-2012, 20:55
I'd also ask myself what would the Karate Man from Lights Out do? PS I still can't wait for his next book.

DJ Niner
02-09-2012, 21:30
What do you do next?Observe the nearby highway(s) to see the extent of the outage on other vehicles. Check the sky for aircraft ("work" is not too far from a regional airport). If daylight (I usually work evenings), look for signs of multiple fires starting at the same time in many locations (smoke columns on the horizon); this could be due to vehicle crashes, overloaded power transformers/substations, or power surges into homes/businesses. Carefully consider all possible causes consistent with the observed signs.

Talk to the two or three people I know at work who have older vehicles; offer to pay (really well) for a ride home if we are released early. Check the electric forklifts, see if any function (lifts not in use during the shift have the batteries unplugged). If one is found working, put the keys somewhere safe.

Educate on-scene managers about the possible nature of the problem (some already have a working knowledge of possible causes of this type of situation). Take inventory of my personal locker, make a list of things I will take from it when leaving.


.

wjv
02-10-2012, 15:09
Talk to the two or three people I know at work who have older vehicles; offer to pay (really well) for a ride home if we are released early.

Sorry. . If it's EMP, your company doesn't exist anymore. The police, fire dept, government doesn't exist anymore. Not saying that this gives you a right to do anything illegal or stupid, but the second that EMP pulse hits, your boss is no longer your boss. he's just another guy in the middle of SHTF.

If I'm sure it is a major EMP event, I won't care one bit what my boss wants me to do. They can stand around and jaw about what's happening and what they should do. . While I'll be doing (heading home).

We're not far from the Portland airport, so all I'll have to do is go up to the second floor and look out the window. If there are a bunch of big columns of smoke coming up along the runway flight paths, there won't be much question as to what has happened.

SGT HATRED
02-10-2012, 15:35
Great story on being about as prepared as one could be... If only he would finish the second half!

http://www.whenshtf.com/showthread.php?t=32988

DJ Niner
02-10-2012, 16:06
Sorry. . If it's EMP, your company doesn't exist anymore. The police, fire dept, government doesn't exist anymore. Not saying that this gives you a right to do anything illegal or stupid, but the second that EMP pulse hits, your boss is no longer your boss. he's just another guy in the middle of SHTF.

If I'm sure it is a major EMP event, I won't care one bit what my boss wants me to do. They can stand around and jaw about what's happening and what they should do. . While I'll be doing (heading home).

We're not far from the Portland airport, so all I'll have to do is go up to the second floor and look out the window. If there are a bunch of big columns of smoke coming up along the runway flight paths, there won't be much question as to what has happened.While this may be true for people who fully understand what has happened, for those that are NOT familiar with the big-picture/long-term situation, getting approval to leave will still be important. Our company has whole-building generators that are designed to keep production up and running even during complete outages, but if the gensets fail to kick-in as designed, they may well want to keep everyone around for an hour or two until a determination is made that we are really done-for-the-day (if not permanently).

If it's just me, you're right, I can leave anytime I want. If it requires help from other folks, then letting them stay/operate in their little bubble for a while might be far easier than:

- explaining EMP from scratch, then
- convincing them that EMP is the cause of the problem, and by the way
- civilization as they know it might be over, which means
- the job they had an hour ago no longer exists.

which might make paying for a ride home (with cash that may have become almost useless) a bit harder, too.


.

UneasyRider
02-10-2012, 19:46
As a general question directly related to the original post, when is the last time any of you walked 10 miles in a day?

It's a lot harder than you think it is and a good pace for a guy who does not walk regularly is 20 minutes per mile (3 miles per hour). If you a not a regular your feet will be blistered before your 10 mile hike is over too if you have not taped them up well in advance. Not to mention those muscles that used to respond so well when we used them every day... are going to really hurt.

People who live in cities and walk a lot have an advantage here, but walking is hard on you if you don't do it regularly.

arclight610
02-10-2012, 19:51
Everyone knows you go looting.

Do you want to be in my gang? I'm the boss and I get first pick at all the wimmins, but you can be my right hand man.

DoctaGlockta
02-10-2012, 19:58
As a general question directly related to the original post, when is the last time any of you walked 10 miles in a day?



I run 4-5 miles/day. Now that is not with a bag full of items but in a crunch I could do the 20 miles it would take to get home and then a quick bike ride to the kid's school.

MadMonkey
02-10-2012, 20:16
Run for the nearest bunker because we're probably about to get shot at...

UneasyRider
02-10-2012, 20:19
I run 4-5 miles/day. Now that is not with a bag full of items but in a crunch I could do the 20 miles it would take to get home and then a quick bike ride to the kid's school.

Good for you! Different muscle groups and while I can't run for crap these days but I can walk only because I do a few miles per day a few days per week. 10 miles would be ok for me but I would be unhappy when it is all done. People used to consider 20 miles a day the normal traveling pace, wow.

engineer151515
02-10-2012, 20:40
motorcycle is carburetted with no computer. Should survive an emp. Need to get thru some bad neighborhoods and across the bay before things go to hell.

In this order:
1. Shoot someone with a working car and take theirs.
2. Get the kids from school and wife from work.
3. Hit the grocery and stock up. Shoot anyone who interferes.
4. Get home at all costs.
5. Pray to God that this is the TEOTWAKI, because if it isn't, you'll be doing some hard time, son.



If you shoot at me, you better make sure I'm dead when you come for the bike. Otherwise, you might catch one between the eyes when you get close.

kirgi08
02-10-2012, 20:49
So is a 76 jeep,with caged parts.'08.

Syclone538
02-10-2012, 22:14
Would a starter solenoid, and an ignition coil survive? Does anyone really know?

Javelin
02-10-2012, 22:18
Observe the nearby highway(s) to see the extent of the outage on other vehicles. Check the sky for aircraft ("work" is not too far from a regional airport). If daylight (I usually work evenings), look for signs of multiple fires starting at the same time in many locations (smoke columns on the horizon); this could be due to vehicle crashes, overloaded power transformers/substations, or power surges into homes/businesses. Carefully consider all possible causes consistent with the observed signs.

Talk to the two or three people I know at work who have older vehicles; offer to pay (really well) for a ride home if we are released early. Check the electric forklifts, see if any function (lifts not in use during the shift have the batteries unplugged). If one is found working, put the keys somewhere safe.

Educate on-scene managers about the possible nature of the problem (some already have a working knowledge of possible causes of this type of situation). Take inventory of my personal locker, make a list of things I will take from it when leaving.


.

This would be a good COA. But I will still suggest getting a hot cup of coffee from Starbucks. Might be the last hot cup of coffee you get in a while & best enjoy it while you can!

:supergrin:

Javelin
02-10-2012, 22:19
In this order:
1. Shoot someone with a working car and take theirs.
2. Get the kids from school and wife from work.
3. Hit the grocery and stock up. Shoot anyone who interferes.
4. Get home at all costs.
5. Pray to God that this is the TEOTWAKI, because if it isn't, you'll be doing some hard time, son.

Holy crap I really really hope you are joking. That would be insane! :faint:

IV Troop
02-11-2012, 05:54
Not that big of a deal. For starters I would simply take another vehicle from the agency I work for.

I also have a large pack in my G ride full of gear that I use for emergencies. Normally it is for tracking down dumb arses who have wandered off into the mountains or deserts or who have injured themselvesin a remote location. I can sustain myself out of that pack for a good while, including shelter.

If no vehicles were available, from my work to home is a 2 hour walk with a pack on. I just did a 7.5 mile round trip in the snow last weekend up a snowy mountain road for exercise, gaining some good elevation in the process. I needed to break in some boots that I had not used much.

NOTE: A product called YakTrax make all the difference when walking on snow and ice. They weigh nothing and could prevent an injury that will stop you dead in your tracks. They slip right on over your shoes/boots and are not very expensive.

DoctaGlockta
02-11-2012, 07:41
Not that big of a deal. For starters I would simply take another vehicle from the agency I work for.

I also have a large pack in my G ride full of gear that I use for emergencies. Normally it is for tracking down dumb arses who have wandered off into the mountains or deserts or who have injured themselvesin a remote location. I can sustain myself out of that pack for a good while, including shelter.

If no vehicles were available, from my work to home is a 2 hour walk with a pack on. I just did a 7.5 mile round trip in the snow last weekend up a snowy mountain road for exercise, gaining some good elevation in the process. I needed to break in some boots that I had not used much.

NOTE: A product called YakTrax make all the difference when walking on snow and ice. They weigh nothing and could prevent an injury that will stop you dead in your tracks. They slip right on over your shoes/boots and are not very expensive.

++++1 on those. We have a couple of pair. They work amazingly well - even running in them on snow and ice. Great suggestion. I was wondering what you have in your pack if you don't mind sharing? Might as well know what the professionals are using. Thanks in advance.

AK_Stick
02-11-2012, 09:31
Sorry. . If it's EMP, your company doesn't exist anymore. The police, fire dept, government doesn't exist anymore. Not saying that this gives you a right to do anything illegal or stupid, but the second that EMP pulse hits, your boss is no longer your boss. he's just another guy in the middle of SHTF.

If I'm sure it is a major EMP event, I won't care one bit what my boss wants me to do. They can stand around and jaw about what's happening and what they should do. . While I'll be doing (heading home).

We're not far from the Portland airport, so all I'll have to do is go up to the second floor and look out the window. If there are a bunch of big columns of smoke coming up along the runway flight paths, there won't be much question as to what has happened.


Step away from "One Second After" EMP is not the boogyman.

Ya'll are a trip though.

SGT HATRED
02-11-2012, 10:21
Step away from "One Second After" EMP is not the boogyman.

Ya'll are a trip though.

And you know this how?

IV Troop
02-11-2012, 10:38
++++1 on those. We have a couple of pair. They work amazingly well - even running in them on snow and ice. Great suggestion. I was wondering what you have in your pack if you don't mind sharing? Might as well know what the professionals are using. Thanks in advance.

It is a mix of things that is specific to the environment I live/work in. For info, my work environment has a mid sized city, a couple of small towns and vast expanses of high desert changing to mountains. Very rugged terrain. We also have some very steep remote river canyons.

I would post some pics, but I have maxed out my photobucket account bandwidth apparantly.

Off the top of my head.

Goretex rain jacket
Goretex rain pants
lightweight down jacket compressed in stuff sack
Wiggys Lamilite poncho liner
Snugpack ultralight sleeping bag
Integral Designs Silnylon 8'x10' tarp w/ 550 cord already attached
Water rescue throw rope (gets used on a semi regular basis)
Lightweight Silva compass dummy corded to pack frame
6 chemlights for markers
VS 17 aircraft marker panel
Infrared beacon
GS trauma kit
large waterproof overmitts
wool surplus lightweight gloves
1 pair extra smartwool hiking socks
Wool watch cap
alcohol cat stove w/ alcohol
cup that nests in nalgen bottle
packets of tea, sugar, creamer, starbucks VIA instant coffee, matches, w/titainium snowpeak spoon, with a small candle, all in a plastic bag, in a purple Crown Royal bag.
Small 1/2 sandwhich baggy of sugar cubes(for people with low blood sugar issues)
3 bottles of water
550 cord
LED headlamp
Clear safety glasses (handy for walking in thick stuff at night)
leatherman
3 large plastic garbage bags
zip ties

I have labeled some of the pockets from the outside. I know where stuff is, but I have found when I ask someone to go grab me something from my pack, they do not have to scatter my entire contents all over the ground. That is a PITA.

The funny thing is the LW stuffable down jacket gets used a lot by "would be rescuers" who think that they are only going to be gone from their vehicle for 20 minutes. Then the sun goes down, it drops 30 degrees and they did not bring a jacket.

They are the same people who in the begining are making smart assed comments such as "going camping" when I get my pack out of my patrol vehicle trunk right off the bat. Years of experience has taught me that you can be on the track for a long, long time.

I will admit I have let a few of the smart alecked ones shiver for a while before I offer them the down jacket. :whistling: They also get reminded that when and if the victim is found alive, they are first priority jacket wise.

AK_Stick
02-11-2012, 18:06
And you know this how?



My line of work involves EMP, EMI, and EMEI.


EMP can cause damage. EMP can disable electronics.


EMP IS NOT the light switch that some people beleive it to be. Especially on vehicles, and stuff like that.

DJ Niner
02-11-2012, 19:45
My line of work involves EMP, EMI, and EMEI.


EMP can cause damage. EMP can disable electronics.


EMP IS NOT the light switch that some people beleive it to be. Especially on vehicles, and stuff like that.We've kinda been through this before, haven't we?

Up to what level is "EMP not the light switch"? A 6" tsunami isn't very dangerous; a 6 meter tsunami IS. Can you say with any level of confidence that we will only ever suffer the EMP-equivalent of a 6" tsunami?

Let's just talk about vehicles. Even if only a small percentage of vehicles are affected (let's say 10%), and even if most of them only temporarily stall, is that a minor or major concern when you are surrounded by cars in this environment?

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/7493/59057528.jpg

Even if your vehicle is still running fine, what about ancillary systems? How much of a random voltage surge does it take to deploy your vehicle's airbag, without any warning, in the above environment? Or everyone's airbag, at same time?

EMP doesn't have to kill everything or everyone at once. If it disables any significant percentage of electronics, even temporarily, many thousands of people could die -- immediately, and in the next few hours or days. The above speed limit photo was taken during a warm time of the year; what if there were suddenly thousands of accidents and disabled vehicles right now (mid-February) along that rural highway in North Dakota, or an entire swath of the Northern tier of states? How many people would freeze to death before swamped local emergency services could find/reach them and get them to shelter? Sure, some would survive, through a combination of luck and skill, but certainly not all of them.

Without knowing the details, I understand that your experience leads you to believe that not very many systems would be affected, and even then, they would not be affected as seriously as many people believe. Even if I adopt your attitude on the subject, I am still not comforted by the potential for death based on relatively minor effects. You said it yourself; "EMP can cause damage. EMP can disable electronics." In certain areas, and/or at certain times of the year, this is all it takes for large numbers of people to die.

michael e
02-11-2012, 19:47
I work at a dealer, so I am sure we could fix the car issue. If not I live 3 miles away, half of us are armed and am pretty sure we could make it to my house pretty quick.

secamp32
02-11-2012, 20:18
Pull the GHB out of hte car, "borrow" a sailboat and sail up the river then walk the rest of the way home. Or walk the 20 miles home. That will be a long walk thru Manhattan and the Bronx which are barely safe on a good day. It will be not so fun when TEOTWAWKI happens.

FatBoy
02-12-2012, 08:12
Since I work at a Trauma center... if a bunch of the medical equipment stopped working, I would bet my night just got real busy. And no I am not going to just walk out the door. If I worked at a Quicky-Mart I'd be long gone, different story.

FB

AK_Stick
02-12-2012, 09:59
We've kinda been through this before, haven't we?

EMP doesn't have to kill everything or everyone at once. If it disables any significant percentage of electronics, even temporarily, many thousands of people could die -- immediately, and in the next few hours or days. The above speed limit photo was taken during a warm time of the year; what if there were suddenly thousands of accidents and disabled vehicles right now (mid-February) along that rural highway in North Dakota, or an entire swath of the Northern tier of states? How many people would freeze to death before swamped local emergency services could find/reach them and get them to shelter? Sure, some would survive, through a combination of luck and skill, but certainly not all of them.




I imagine, should a couple thousand vehicles suddenly be disabled, in ND right now, as soon as people start re-starting their vehicles, they're going to start picking up the other people they see. Thats pretty much how life works around those parts. Anytime there's a natural disaster, they band together. Flood, Tornado etc.

Would some of them die? Probably.



Doesn't change the fact that EMP, is not the cross continent permanent black out device that some of you make it out to be.


When vehicles up to vehicles as new as 2003 (with airbags) were tested, some of the vehicles didn't even stall. And stalling in the vehicles was not correlated solely to the kV/m power of the EMP.


As I said, its dangerous, it can cause damage, but fear mongering has made people fear it, greatly out of proportion to the actual risk it represents.

TangoFoxtrot
02-12-2012, 10:08
What do you do next?

Grab GHB, lock and load and start hiking home.

efman
02-12-2012, 22:43
I work at a local P.D. We have a giant Deisel generator with a very large amount of fuel. When I'm done with my shift, I walk two miles down the road and start my bug-in procedures (if warranted.)

x2 but exchange pd with so

WolfNotSheep
02-13-2012, 11:26
I walk from the shop into my office and grab my go-bag. Then I go to my car and take out the enhanced shelter kit (if it's winter), 4 spare full-size XD mags, my Draco pistol and its urban camo bag (since I can legally conceal this with my CCW, and 40 round mags look dead sexy hanging out it), and I start walking. I also store food in my office in a locking filing cabinet by my desk so I may grab some extra, even though I've got almost 10k calories in my bag. If I'm going home then I have a 15.5 mile hike, to the BOL is almost exactly double that but in the same direction as my house so I won't have to backtrack from work, to home, to BOL.

Once home, I'll see if my BOV runs. if yes, I load up all the tupperware bins marked with a red "X" of duct tape and go. If it doesn't run, I trade in the draco for one of his big brothers and keep on marching.

Bilbo Bagins
02-13-2012, 12:28
I imagine, should a couple thousand vehicles suddenly be disabled, in ND right now, as soon as people start re-starting their vehicles, they're going to start picking up the other people they see. Thats pretty much how life works around those parts. Anytime there's a natural disaster, they band together. Flood, Tornado etc.

Would some of them die? Probably.



Doesn't change the fact that EMP, is not the cross continent permanent black out device that some of you make it out to be.


When vehicles up to vehicles as new as 2003 (with airbags) were tested, some of the vehicles didn't even stall. And stalling in the vehicles was not correlated solely to the kV/m power of the EMP.


As I said, its dangerous, it can cause damage, but fear mongering has made people fear it, greatly out of proportion to the actual risk it represents.

Shhhhh:quiet:

That is our master plan for Iran.

1) Spread stories that one nuke that goes off in the atmosphere above the USA, will shut down everything in the USA.

2) Iran fires off a nuclear missile from a cargo ship in the Atlantic, the Nuclear warhead explodes in space above Nebraska

3) 47 laptops go dead, 200 cell phones, Power flickers on and off in Billings MO. Also in Idaho a 1989 Dodge Aries K car stalls, but scientist are not sure if it related to the EMP blast.

4) The US lanches a tactical nuclear retaliatory strike against Iran. Iran's military and government is decimated, and the quickly surrender. A decade later the become the 51st state.

Lt Scott 14
02-13-2012, 13:06
If this occured at my work, we would go on alert, and tighten up the perimeter.
The suggestion of leaving would depend on anyone coming in to relieve your job. I carry a BOB, but winter has lightened up the food stores and gone heavy on clothes due to chance of snow and power failures. Still have back up lighting(battery powered lantern) spare batterys, firearms, ammo, poncho, some easy cook chili/soup, water, fire start stuff, knife, compass, basic area map. No way can I expect to hike 13 miles home in a blizzard just to go there. Will hang tight till news changes or get a ride somehow. The BOB weighs over 20 lbs will need to lighten it up to even get a few miles. I am not a retired Army ranger, just know my limits, and it would be really tough on a 70 degree day as well.

WilyCoyote
02-14-2012, 01:17
If all that happened, I would have this exact conversation with a coworker

I sharted.. - Along came Polly - YouTube

Dexters
02-14-2012, 07:08
NOTE: A product called YakTrax make all the difference when walking on snow and ice. They weigh nothing and could prevent an injury that will stop you dead in your tracks. They slip right on over your shoes/boots and are not very expensive.

The suck do not buy them - search any forum with serious hikers and they will tell you so. They break and they bottoms spread so that part of what should be on the bottom get to the top of your feet. I wasted my money on them.

Look for Micro Spikes - more expensive but they don't break.

Mil-Spec ice cleats - in between Micro Spikes and crampons - less expensive then Micro Spikes.

pugman
02-14-2012, 12:00
As a general question directly related to the original post, when is the last time any of you walked 10 miles in a day?

It's a lot harder than you think it is and a good pace for a guy who does not walk regularly is 20 minutes per mile (3 miles per hour). If you a not a regular your feet will be blistered before your 10 mile hike is over too if you have not taped them up well in advance. Not to mention those muscles that used to respond so well when we used them every day... are going to really hurt.

People who live in cities and walk a lot have an advantage here, but walking is hard on you if you don't do it regularly.

I'm in training for Tough Mudder. On a treadmill, in an airconditioned building with a nice filtered bottled water next to me, the ipod going it would take me a solid 2 days to get home considering I would need to sleep at some point. Maybe as a test I will try and walk 50 miles in two days without sleep.

Now add in the fact I need to walk out of Milwaukee (thankfully I'm on the outskirts) and the easist, shortest and most direct route is the interstate my time increases since I need to be somewhat alert of what is going on.

If its me. Grab my GHB, take the 6 20 oz bottles I fill with water every morning, the snacky food I have in my desk drawer and hit it. I definitely need to keep a better pair of walking shoes at work.

sebecman
02-14-2012, 12:44
EMP, is not the cross continent permanent black out device that some of you make it out to be.


When vehicles up to vehicles as new as 2003 (with airbags) were tested, some of the vehicles didn't even stall. And stalling in the vehicles was not correlated solely to the kV/m power of the EMP.


As I said, its dangerous, it can cause damage, but fear mongering has made people fear it, greatly out of proportion to the actual risk it represents.

So we could have saved millions of dollars in research money. All we needed to do was have you stand up on the highest mountain and shout your opinion to the masses.

You always argue the "vehicle's won't lose power" slant, as if we are all fresh out of the theater from watching War of The Worlds.

Have you read the 2008 EMP Commission report? Apparently we could have saved millions of dollars and just asked you for an opinion based in your limited knowledge of what exactly?

http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

Sure most vehicles will run but can you speak with experience to the effects of EMP on the electronic systems, scanners and other devices that are used on loading docks and in shipyards to move goods onto the trucks?

Have you considered the effects to electronic banking and what even a small disruption in funds transfer systems would mean? What about effects on cell phone towers?

So we can all drive our cars, big deal. :upeyes:

PBCounty
02-14-2012, 13:52
I'm walking the 5-6 miles of woods back to my front door.

racerford
02-14-2012, 14:35
..........So we can all drive our cars, big deal. :upeyes:[/FONT][/SIZE]

Actually versus not being able to drive our cars, it would be a big deal.

Dirk Pitt
02-14-2012, 18:51
..and hence "The Karate Man" was born...

Roger that! I love that book, and to answer the first question, grab my bag and walk home. I have done it before.

JuneyBooney
02-14-2012, 23:38
What do you do next?

Get on your horse and ride home. :supergrin:

sebecman
02-15-2012, 06:51
Actually versus not being able to drive our cars, it would be a big deal.

You didn't pick up on the sarcasm. Sorry maybe there is a better smiley for that but I don't dig past the first 15 for smiley's. :wavey:

I say Big Deal..... driving will be low on the list of your worries if gasoline is not available or is $20 a gallon. Which is very much in the realm of possibility if an EMP were to knock out any one or two of the dominos in our supply chain.

Think, all gas pumps are electronic, all loading and offloading is recorded with electronic meters, refineries have how many electronic gadgets? How many industries and municipalities operate on SCADA systems?

Dexters
02-15-2012, 07:15
I say Big Deal..... driving will be low on the list of your worries if gasoline is not available or is $20 a gallon. Which is very much in the realm of possibility ...


Which is very much in the realm of possibility ... this summer is $5.00 nationally and higher in Ca.

Get those walking shoes out!

AK_Stick
02-16-2012, 00:36
So we could have saved millions of dollars in research money. All we needed to do was have you stand up on the highest mountain and shout your opinion to the masses.

You always argue the "vehicle's won't lose power" slant, as if we are all fresh out of the theater from watching War of The Worlds.

Have you read the 2008 EMP Commission report? Apparently we could have saved millions of dollars and just asked you for an opinion based in your limited knowledge of what exactly?

http://empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

Sure most vehicles will run but can you speak with experience to the effects of EMP on the electronic systems, scanners and other devices that are used on loading docks and in shipyards to move goods onto the trucks?

Have you considered the effects to electronic banking and what even a small disruption in funds transfer systems would mean? What about effects on cell phone towers?

So we can all drive our cars, big deal. :upeyes:





Wow, congrats on not reading anything I posted. :rofl:


But continue with your fear mongering, the sky is actually falling chicken little.

Naelbis
02-16-2012, 12:08
Considering I work in the most secure building in the county, we have hardened electronics, stockpiled supplies, an armory and our own power source I think I would stick it out there. I might jog the eight blocks to grab my kids and bring them back with me though.

sebecman
02-17-2012, 08:32
Wow, congrats on not reading anything I posted. :rofl:


But continue with your fear mongering, the sky is actually falling chicken little.

Fear mongering? Clearly you haven't read anything I have posted. Including the report on the subject by experts.

Whatever. I don't have an agenda here.

GAU-8
02-19-2012, 00:40
Sorry. . If it's EMP, your company doesn't exist anymore. The police, fire dept, government doesn't exist anymore. Not saying that this gives you a right to do anything illegal or stupid, but the second that EMP pulse hits, your boss is no longer your boss. he's just another guy in the middle of SHTF.


What? Are you serious?

EMP will vaporize entire companies? Vaporize police and fire departments? Automatically demotes "bosses" to "new hires" ?



Worst case scenario we are talking about a major power outage with some stuff needing to be fixed, and that's about it. It's NOT the end of the world and it's not even likely that EMP could ever affect a large area to this degree.

This whole EMP and everything returns to the dark ages is just pure fantasy.

kirgi08
02-19-2012, 03:41
What? Are you serious?

Yep.

EMP will vaporize entire companies? Vaporize police and fire departments? Automatically demotes "bosses" to "new hires" ?

What do companies run on ?,same as the military.Seas of data.Same as any other business.If the ability ta draw data is lost.The ability ta function is done.

Worst case scenario we are talking about a major power outage with some stuff needing to be fixed, and that's about it. It's NOT the end of the world and it's not even likely that EMP could ever affect a large area to this degree.

A fried "puter" ain't gonna be fixed.A fried corporate network,whatever the width or depth suffers the same fate.All the deed being done needs is location/s.

This whole EMP and everything returns to the dark ages is just pure fantasy.


Pray tell,how many of them there Russian dirty bombs that none can find are out there ? They are available ta the highest bidder.

Ya seem ta mock and poo poo folk,the threat is out there and it's real..'08 :upeyes:

series1811
02-19-2012, 04:52
Anyone who thinks that there is never going to be a nuclear weapon (maybe dirty, maybe full strength) set off in this country as a terrorist act, is a lot more optimistic than I am.

It's just when, not if.

And, after having lived through Katrina, when everyone knew it was coming for several days, I can't imagine how bad a surprise disaster would be for a major American city.

jdavionic
02-19-2012, 06:00
Anyone who thinks that there is never going to be a nuclear weapon (maybe dirty, maybe full strength) set off in this country as a terrorist act, is a lot more optimistic than I am.

It's just when, not if.

And, after having lived through Katrina, when everyone knew it was coming for several days, I can't imagine how bad a surprise disaster would be for a major American city.

I agree. I think it will basically kill a city. By that, I mean the aftermath will ruin the economy for the city. If It's a major city, it will also have a major impact on the US economy.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

GAU-8
02-19-2012, 08:57
Pray tell,how many of them there Russian dirty bombs that none can find are out there ? They are available ta the highest bidder.


How is a Russian dirty bomb going to set off an EMP of any significance, or even set off an EMP at all?

The US and Russia have already detonated many many atomic bombs that no one will every get there hands on and no EMP of any significance has ever been produced. Even when detonated in space. The effects were mild at best.

series1811
02-19-2012, 11:40
How is a Russian dirty bomb going to set off an EMP of any significance, or even set off an EMP at all?

The US and Russia have already detonated many many atomic bombs that no one will every get there hands on and no EMP of any significance has ever been produced. Even when detonated in space. The effects were mild at best.

I believe the effects of EMP have been greatly over exaggerated.

On the other hand, I know from personal experience, with certainty beyond 100 percent, that our government's capacity to respond to an emergency in one city, much less several at once, has also been greatly exaggerated.

IV Troop
02-24-2012, 06:57
The suck do not buy them - search any forum with serious hikers and they will tell you so. They break and they bottoms spread so that part of what should be on the bottom get to the top of your feet. I wasted my money on them.

Look for Micro Spikes - more expensive but they don't break.

Mil-Spec ice cleats - in between Micro Spikes and crampons - less expensive then Micro Spikes.

:upeyes:

Serious hikers huh,

Dexter, I have lived in the rural Rocky Mountain West for 40+ years and spend my free time recreating outdoors year round.

I think I would pass on taking advice from twig eating suburbanite twits on the hiking forums. We see them here every year. In fact I/my agency rescues a number of them annually.

I do find it a bit amusing that a person from Georgia is giving advice on ice cleats over someone who lives in the Rockies. BTW, I was stationed at Ft. Benning and am quite familiar with the terrain in that portion of the country.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/IMG_0108.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/LostRiverRangeOct08027-1.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/sanitizedCoyoteColt.jpg

IV Troop
02-24-2012, 07:01
That first pic is actually Mt. Rainier, I was looking for a different pic from a local climb. but posted that one. That was not the right one.

Here is Mt. Borah, a popular summer climb.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Mackayjun10014.jpg

DoctaGlockta
02-24-2012, 07:14
It is a mix of things that is specific to the environment I live/work in. For info, my work environment has a mid sized city, a couple of small towns and vast expanses of high desert changing to mountains. Very rugged terrain. We also have some very steep remote river canyons.

I would post some pics, but I have maxed out my photobucket account bandwidth apparantly.

Off the top of my head.

Goretex rain jacket
Goretex rain pants
lightweight down jacket compressed in stuff sack
Wiggys Lamilite poncho liner
Snugpack ultralight sleeping bag
Integral Designs Silnylon 8'x10' tarp w/ 550 cord already attached
Water rescue throw rope (gets used on a semi regular basis)
Lightweight Silva compass dummy corded to pack frame
6 chemlights for markers
VS 17 aircraft marker panel
Infrared beacon
GS trauma kit
large waterproof overmitts
wool surplus lightweight gloves
1 pair extra smartwool hiking socks
Wool watch cap
alcohol cat stove w/ alcohol
cup that nests in nalgen bottle
packets of tea, sugar, creamer, starbucks VIA instant coffee, matches, w/titainium snowpeak spoon, with a small candle, all in a plastic bag, in a purple Crown Royal bag.
Small 1/2 sandwhich baggy of sugar cubes(for people with low blood sugar issues)
3 bottles of water
550 cord
LED headlamp
Clear safety glasses (handy for walking in thick stuff at night)
leatherman
3 large plastic garbage bags
zip ties

I have labeled some of the pockets from the outside. I know where stuff is, but I have found when I ask someone to go grab me something from my pack, they do not have to scatter my entire contents all over the ground. That is a PITA.

The funny thing is the LW stuffable down jacket gets used a lot by "would be rescuers" who think that they are only going to be gone from their vehicle for 20 minutes. Then the sun goes down, it drops 30 degrees and they did not bring a jacket.

They are the same people who in the begining are making smart assed comments such as "going camping" when I get my pack out of my patrol vehicle trunk right off the bat. Years of experience has taught me that you can be on the track for a long, long time.

I will admit I have let a few of the smart alecked ones shiver for a while before I offer them the down jacket. :whistling: They also get reminded that when and if the victim is found alive, they are first priority jacket wise.

Appreciate the response and info. Thanks.

Cavalry Doc
02-24-2012, 07:36
It's only 7 miles to home. Once there, I have bikes for all family members.
Get everyone home, hunker down.

Dexters
02-24-2012, 09:56
:upeyes:

Serious hikers huh,

Dexter, I have lived in the rural Rocky Mountain West for 40+ years and spend my free time recreating outdoors year round.

I think I would pass on taking advice from twig eating suburbanite twits on the hiking forums. We see them here every year. In fact I/my agency rescues a number of them annually.

I do find it a bit amusing that a person from Georgia is giving advice on ice cleats over someone who lives in the Rockies. BTW, I was stationed at Ft. Benning and am quite familiar with the terrain in that portion of the country.



It is time you came into the 21 century.
Anyone who thinks these ...

http://www.rei.com/product/760280/yaktrax-walkers-unisex
Are a better product than theses ...

http://www.rei.com/product/774966/kahtoola-microspikes-traction-system,-red,-large?preferredSku=7749660044?cm_mmc&mr:trackingCode=C667AD36-F086-E011-9A77-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA

Or even the Mil Specs. The Mil Specs are in between the Micro Spikes and crampons - so most here will not need them. I like them.
http://www.armynavyblog.com/2009/10/ice-cleats.html

... needs to review their gear for 21st century innovations.

I tried the Yak Trax - one of them is still somewhere on Mt. Harvard - it fell off in deep snow. The front part spread over the top of my boot on the other one. Others have reported the bottom wears away quickly when traversing short rocky areas. They stretch and fall off on inclines.

People have also reported that similar problems walking around town - don't stay on, wear quickly and break.

Your defense of Yak Trax really puts in doubt all you wrote. They are not a serious traction devise.

If it is true - upgrade your equipment.

Knowledge is not location dependent. You could learn a thing or two from a Georgia red neck.

And yes, I have a Colorado Outdoor Recreation Search & Rescue Card.

chrisf608
02-24-2012, 16:21
AN EMP burst will not effect a car all that much. Power grid yes vehicle electronics no. I'd stay at work untill I was told to leave. Then I would start hiking home if I had no wheels.

blueyedmule
03-25-2012, 10:21
if I'm at work, I'm in a semi. If it still runs and clearly it's go time, I drop the trailers on the shoulder and haul butt for home. If the truck's dead I gear up and start walking. I've got nearly everything I need to get home, though it's going to take days.

Christian944
03-26-2012, 09:44
I would lasso myself a wild horse and ride home bare back.

Dexters
03-26-2012, 10:18
I would lasso myself a wild horse and ride home bare back.

A WILD horse would throw you. The fall would probably brake some of your bones in your back. You would be laying there, unable to move, staring at the sky thinking _______________________ (others can fill in the blank).

"Am I laying or lying here?"

SFCSMITH(RET)
03-26-2012, 11:32
:upeyes:


I do find it a bit amusing that a person from Georgia is giving advice on ice cleats over someone who lives in the Rockies. BTW, I was stationed at Ft. Benning and am quite familiar with the terrain in that portion of the country.


I find it amusing that anyone with any common sense would make a statement like you just did. Georgia has some damn big mountains, and very rural mountain areas. Just because you know what Ft Benning terrain is like means you know the whole state?

That's just about.. no exactly the same, as saying: I've been to the NTC 4 times, so I know ALL about the terrain/weather conditions of California. You might find out that there is more than just flat rocky desert in that state.

But feel free to plan and prepare for the desert when you go to Shasta or Yolo or any other part of the state. My brother can use the money from getting called out to rescue you.

I also suspect there are PLENTY of people from GA who have actually left the state and traveled and hiked and climbed in other places. And in my experience those people will be BETTER prepared (for the most) part than "locals", because they KNOW they are farther from home.

SMUDGE07
03-27-2012, 00:18
I work at a local P.D. We have a giant Deisel generator with a very large amount of fuel. When I'm done with my shift, I walk two miles down the road and start my bug-in procedures (if warranted.)

and as for the rest of your Prepping friends...

Dexters
03-27-2012, 10:01
I also suspect there are PLENTY of people from GA who have actually left the state and traveled and hiked and climbed in other places. And in my experience those people will be BETTER prepared (for the most) part than "locals", because they KNOW they are farther from home.

Thanks I think that is true. It is similar to tourist that to to another country - they sometime know things the locals don't because they read up on the country.

I hike alone and have a personal location beacon along with equipment to survive 1 night.

I was trying for Missouri last year up a couloir - it took me 5 attempts.
The freaky part was that I think the bodies of these people were probably on the slope while I was making an attempt. One of the guesses is that they took the standard route up but tried a different route down and fell. They were from Colorado. The father was a hiker and emergency room doctor.

http://www.outtherecolorado.com/Colorado-14ers/coroner-hikers-on-missouri-mountain-died-of-apparent-fall.html

NOLA_glock
03-27-2012, 23:42
I'll walk home and have a beer. Outside, I suppose.

nightwolf1974
03-29-2012, 10:28
Put my jacket on, tell a certain someone at work the SHTF, walk out to my vehicle, take out my GHB and certain other "equipment"(12,38,22,45), and we walk the snowmobile trail home! Get home, put the house into lockdown mode and go into DEF-CON 4! I only live 4 miles from where I work!

dhoomonyou
03-29-2012, 10:40
find the hottest woman i can and find a bar.

FriscoCHL
03-29-2012, 11:16
some posted about their faith in generators, in a big EMP event while I donít know a whole lot about them Iím pretty sure that any generator worth having at a PD would be a HUGE diesel electric unit that would require an ELETRIC battery and starter to get the high compression diesel engine running, which are probably controlled by some sort of computerized control? If cars have been disabled would they be much help either? Like I said I donít know a whole lot on EMP or generators but I am off base on this??

On the OP question. A co worker and I share similar interest in firearms, being prepared and what not. We both live about 17 miles north of our work. We would probably try and make our way that direction. Teams are better than being alone. Other than that would have to play by ear depending on the severity of situation. I'm the boss, so no "reporting" to anyone and I always have fresh coffee in my waiting room...:whistling:

Catshooter
03-29-2012, 14:53
Actually Frisco you bring up a good point.

I have installed a few largish generator sets and I can tell you for sure that any generator of much size and recent manufacture is started and controlled by it's computer. You don't turn a key or anything to start one, you ask the computer to make it go.

Of course the computer chips are enclosed in a grounded steel enclosure, but what does that mean? As far as I can tell nobody really knows what a major EMP would do to us.

I think that AK Stick is both right and wrong. Lots and lots fear monering out there. On the other hand nothing I've read (and I've read everything I could get my hands on) makes me feel any better.

There's even lots of people advising that you ground things to protect them against EMP when the ground itself (which is a conductor) may well be the source of the EMP flow. Driving a ground rod at each corner of your steel building may just give it four times as much currrent!


Cat

FireForged
04-02-2012, 10:23
IF it's a SHTF situation...

Family knows the plan.

Cars will start since they are older 4x4's WITHOUT computers.

Phones don't matter since the family knows the plan.

Plan for the worst, hope for the best

If it's not SHTF...Stay at work until shift is over and go home.

are you talking a truck with 1960's "points" ignition?

wjv
04-02-2012, 11:02
Doesn't change the fact that EMP, is not the cross continent permanent black out device that some of you make it out to be.
.

I don't care. .

The OP posted: Power went out. Phone doesn't work. Car wont' start. You are at work.

I was answering based on his published scenario.


I'd rather have a plan for "the worst' and never need it, than to assume all is rosy and fine and get caught unprepared.

kirgi08
04-02-2012, 12:12
:thumbsup:

Catshooter
04-02-2012, 12:13
Good response Bill.


Cat

MoneyMaker
04-02-2012, 12:40
call a cab
go to strip club

jason10mm
04-02-2012, 12:45
find the hottest woman i can and find a bar.

willing or unwilling woman? :P

"Dammit girl, its the END OF THE WORLD! Keep drinking until I look handsome!"

Unistat
04-02-2012, 15:24
and as for the rest of your Prepping friends...

Well, you'll be putting out fires from the riots in the streets, of course.

How hard is it to put out a couch fire anyway?

MoneyMaker
04-02-2012, 16:08
And WTF is defcon 4,bwahahahahahahaha

glockaviator
04-02-2012, 16:16
Grab a bottle and start drinking....

OldArcher
04-02-2012, 16:37
Cabela's Super Magnum Hauler Game Cart w/wheel shield kit:

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=1206641&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D1206644%26type%3Dproduct%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26se archPath%3D%252Fcatalog%252Fsearch.cmd%253Fform_state%253DsearchForm%2526N%253D0%2526fsch%253Dtrue%2 526Ntk%253DAllProducts%2526Ntt%253Ddual%252Bwheel%252Bkit%2526x%253D0%2526y%253D0%2526WTz_l%253DHead er%25253BSearch-All%252BProducts%26Ntt%3Ddual%2Bwheel%2Bkit%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts&WTz_l=YMAL%3BIK-420294

Cabela's Super Mag Wheel Shield Kit:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Super-Mag-Wheel-Shield-Kit/1206642.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D1206641&categoryIds=104791680|104689980|104353380|&WTz_l=RI%3BIK-42029244 (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Super-Mag-Wheel-Shield-Kit/1206642.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3FproductId%3D1206641&categoryIds=104791680%7C104689980%7C104353380%7C&WTz_l=RI%3BIK-42029244)



Amazon.com: Shappell Kodiak Jr. Multi-Purpose Sled: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41UBBzIyP4L.@@AMEPARAM@@41UBBzIyP4L

Amazon.com: Shappell Jet Sled Jr. Cover: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41XQZLlW0fL.@@AMEPARAM@@41XQZLlW0fL

Amazon.com: Shappell Jet Sled Wear Bars- Choose Size: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41F5r0brPpL.@@AMEPARAM@@41F5r0brPpL

You'll need some small cargo nets- I'm still looking for the "right" ones... One to go under the Kodiak Jr. sled, to be lower into the frame, another to go over the new "bed," loaded with your bug-out gear, and another, matching the terrain you're in, to conceal/hide it.

If shanks mare is the only avenue open, the above was suggested years ago by authors Jerry D. Young and Gary B. Ott.

If you're physically active, and need to cover lots of ground, here would be my choice, the Montague Paratrooper Pro bicycle:

http://www.montaguebikes.com/paratrooper-pro-folding-bike.html

Bar none, the Montague is the world's best bicycle for E&E. Proven again and again in hostile battle space, in the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan, this is a valid tool for your survival...

Hope these give you a few more ideas for staying alive...

OldArcher, out...

DrSticky
04-05-2012, 12:32
How hard is it to put out a couch fire anyway?

In college I saw someone light a couch on fire. We freaked and picked it up ran down the hallway and fired it out the third floor window. Anyway, it didn't burn long and I don't think anyone actively put it out.

In the morning I looked out the window and saw the couch out on the volleyball court. It was largely in tact and there was a guy passed out on it.

/Yeah there was drinking involved.

Glockworks
04-05-2012, 16:35
What do you do next?
Now, if my cell phone which was sufficiently charged And now does NOT power up, my car does not start, my car radio does not turn on, well I walk home, and if I can, I buy a bicycle with cash on my way home. And yippee, we as a country are in deep doo doo.

Texas357
04-08-2012, 16:18
If my car won't start, and every one of the work vehicles in my employer's fleet won't start, and my employer doesn't have power, (including on-site generator,) then I'll be keeping my head down.

secamp32
04-09-2012, 20:43
In college I saw someone light a couch on fire. We freaked and picked it up ran down the hallway and fired it out the third floor window. Anyway, it didn't burn long and I don't think anyone actively put it out.

In the morning I looked out the window and saw the couch out on the volleyball court. It was largely in tact and there was a guy passed out on it.

/Yeah there was drinking involved.

I was at an apartment fire where a heating pad lit a couch on fire. The building had fire sprinklers and they were pouring water almost directly on to the couch and it kept burning. I was stunned at how hot it was burning. It burned until there was nothing left to burn. Luckily the sprinklers kept it from spreading. . Don't underestimate a couch fire!

Line Rider
04-09-2012, 21:05
Run for the nearest bunker because we're probably about to get shot at...

Welcome to L.A.