When would you give up? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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runcible68
02-09-2012, 13:01
I personally think the odds of the world ending in some kind of global cataclysm are remote. I prepare for more mundane disasters likely to affect in my area (Near NYC). Things like terrorist attacks, weather, blackouts, the water company telling us to boil our water and crime.

A while back, however, I watched The Road after reading Cormac McCarty’s book. If you haven’t seen the movie, well, it’s chilling. An unknown disaster has laid waste to the entire world. Most people are dead, the air is filled with lung shearing particulates, it’s perpetual winter, the days are always dark and overcast and nothing can grow. Survivors have resorted to cannibalism, even keeping people as livestock and cutting parts of them off when they’re hungry. At night, terrible dust storms rage to the point where you can’t see in front of your face. The imagery is horrific.

After I watched that film I discussed it with my girlfriend. She didn’t see it, but she said, “After a while I think I’d want to die. What’s worth living for?” In the movie, that was the response of the protagonist’s wife, played by Charleze Theron. It was also the response of many of the survivors. They tried holding out for a long time, but in the end, many of them, if not most of them, committed suicide. And the protagonist was even willing to kill his son to prevent him from being eaten.

I, of course, reflexively identified with the protagonist. I told myself I’d be the “last man standing type” trekking across the ruined landscape with my AR-15 eking out an existence across the scorched earth. But a while later I told myself, “Who am I kidding?’ If my GF offed herself, all my family and friends were dead and it looked like the world was well and truly done for, I don’t think I’d want to keep on living either. When you look at the sheer mental trauma that would be inflicted by such a gargantuan event, I don’t think most people would make it mentally. Even much smaller events (When compared to TEOTWAWKI) like earthquakes in Turkey can send people into suicidal spirals. What’s the rule of three say? Three minutes without air, three hours without shelter, three days without water, three months without food and three months without hope? The hope parts the toughie. We can prepare for everything but that. And everybody has their breaking point.

So, as an intellectual exercise, how long so you think you’d last in the face of such a terrible event? (And I mean something like The Road, a worst case scenario.) Even if you prepped out the wazoo, what would you do when even that fails? When would you give up?

racerford
02-09-2012, 13:59
I have a wife and two young kids. As long as they are alive there is no giving up. If they are dead, I still don't give up, I just don't think I am wired that way. I have been through plenty of good reason to give up on a lot of things and I just don't.

However, I would likely become a bit less conservative in keeping my head down to keep my family safe (as that would no longer be an issue). That may shorten my life. There is a big difference between giving up and taking your own life and being more aggressive in standing on principles without regaurd to the consequences to yourself.

DoctaGlockta
02-09-2012, 14:06
When you have kids you never give up. When you have some you will understand.

B.Reid
02-09-2012, 15:28
Suicide is for *******, I don't believe in giving up. Fight to the end. I have told friends that if they find me as a suicide that it will be a murder and let the authorities know that. One exception might be a terminal disease where there is no hope and just pain. A friend came to me once talking about killing himself, he had been buy several friends houses talking about suicide, I laid into him and told him I wouldn't go to his funeral if he did so. He is still alive 20+ years later.

arclight610
02-09-2012, 15:42
A man with nothing to live for is a dangerous thing. I have my family to live for. If they were to die, I guess I'd just turn into a cannibal hunter.

Of course, I have more than a S&W with 1 shot too.

Donn57
02-09-2012, 18:05
Of course the protagonist in "The Road" was primarily concerned with getting his son to safety as he knew he was dying.

Big Bird
02-09-2012, 18:16
It is a sin to despair. Never, ever give up.

RWBlue
02-09-2012, 19:07
Suicide is for quitters.

I was raised to be hard headed. I will be more like the black knight in the monty python movie. They lop off my limbs and I still try to bight their knees.

mac66
02-09-2012, 19:19
"The Road" is a metaphor for the journey of life. We all have to take the journey knowing that we are all gonna die in the end anyway. No one gets out alive. So what's the point? What's the point of not turning into a cannibal or resorting to the worst of human behavior? What's the point of "keeping the flame," i.e, sticking to moral, ethical behavior? Until you figure that out, you have no way of determining what you would do.

jdavionic
02-09-2012, 19:28
Me, never. My kids, never. My wife, not sure. Life hasn't been too difficult for her. When things have gotten tough for her in the past, I have seen a tendency to just quit - e.g., job challenges for her when she used to work. However she is very competitive...so that's why I say "not sure".

quake
02-09-2012, 19:43
When you have kids you never give up.

This. Wife, kids, grandkids; whoever depends on you is the reason to be here.

bdcochran
02-09-2012, 20:04
Declaring yourself a tough guy is not the same as understanding despair.

Essentially, the psychiatrist, Viktor Franl concluded that a person gives meaning to life and not the other way around.

Man's Search for Meaning
by Viktor Frankl


"I had wanted simply to convey to the reader by way of concrete example that life holds a potential meaning under any conditions, even the most miserable ones. And I thought that if the point were demonstrated in a situation as extreme as that in a concentration camp, my book might gain a hearing. I therefore felt responsible for writing down what I had gone through, for I thought it might be helpful to people who are prone to despair."

yellowhand
02-09-2012, 20:34
During the Shoah, 1935 thru 1945, some gave up, but most fought on till their last breaths.
"Most" people will fight even when there is no help coming to the bitter end.
History 101.

LASTRESORT20
02-09-2012, 20:41
`The man who wins "may have been counted out several times",
***but he didn’t hear the referee.
Never quit or give up….never…..never give up.`
- H.E. Janson

4TS&W
02-09-2012, 20:45
No matter how bad your day gets, you can always ruin someone else's!!! :)


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

racerford
02-09-2012, 22:20
There is significant difference between despair, depression, and giving up. Been there, done that, and didn't give up.

Tom Kanik
02-10-2012, 00:23
Never!

Bolster
02-10-2012, 00:25
During the Shoah, 1935 thru 1945, some gave up, but most fought on till their last breaths.
"Most" people will fight even when there is no help coming to the bitter end.
History 101.

Much as I dislike threads based on TV hypotheticals, I have to object (politely) to yellowhand's overly-broad generalization. Most people do not necessarily fight to the end, and there's good evidence that despair can set into a group like a disease and wipe everyone out within a few days.

Recently read a book titled "Seaworthy" that examined several long hardship voyages and shipwrecks. One example was remarkable, a group of people escaping a shipwreck who were phenomenally well provisioned (robust lifeboats, lots of food and water, even casks of wine!) but despair set in for some reason and most were dead within a week though a variety of different causes--but no fatalities due to disease, or a lack of food, water, or shelter. Many died through fights among themselves, as I recall. Others would just jump into the water and sink. It sounded like some sort of social contagion.

Kieller
02-10-2012, 12:04
This is nearly an impossible question to answer but I do agree with previous responses that if you had family that still depended on you that your will to push on would be much hardier.

It would be very difficult to tell what you would do if everyone you knew was dead and you were in a very trying situation. Swallowing a bullet is never an option IMHO but you can literally drive yourself into the ground thinking about everything that has/will happen to you.

I believe that psycologically most people are not prepared to endure hardship of that nature.

PlasticGuy
02-10-2012, 12:40
I'm too stubborn to quit.

As for the OP's personal theory, keeping an M4 running in a world full of blowing dust and no CLP is a wonderful fantasy. LOL!

pmwglock19
02-10-2012, 19:56
I agree with plastic Guy, that cleaning a semi would be difficult the longer the SHTF goes on.

A good SHTF in my opnion is a pump or leveraction long gun and revolver. If a lever gun, then same caliber as the revolver. If a shotgun, then a 22lr revolver would be a good companion because of the ability of carring a lot of 22 lr ammo.

rgregoryb
02-10-2012, 21:02
being 62 and all my children grown and on their own, I look at it differently...if the time came that I would have to kill for survival (for food etc., not defense) I would just prefer to get it over with ,wandering around aimlessly is not a quality of life that has any appeal to me.

It's not giving up, it's plan C.

racerford
02-10-2012, 22:21
I agree with plastic Guy, that cleaning a semi would be difficult the longer the SHTF goes on.

A good SHTF in my opnion is a pump or leveraction long gun and revolver. If a lever gun, then same caliber as the revolver. If a shotgun, then a 22lr revolver would be a good companion because of the ability of carring a lot of 22 lr ammo.

And you own a Glock? I have Glocks that have thousands of rounds and years with a cleaning, on purpose. They still function 100%. A range I go to has Glocks that they rent, they are shot and are put back in the case, and are not cleaned, unless there is a failure. Most have not been cleaned

TampaXB
02-10-2012, 23:20
I'm a U.S. Marine. My family, my Marines, my Nation, and my God depend on me. Marines don't quit.

janice6
02-10-2012, 23:31
It's not in my nature to give up or quit because of the odds.

I will go kicking and screaming all the way, I just can't suddenly change my sense of values for the "easy way out".


I am not preaching to others. This is just the way I am.

redbrd
02-11-2012, 09:15
If you consider quitting as an option you will. If you can still move you can do something. When I was in the military it seemed I always ended up injured going into training, I hated it at the time but it was a great life lesson. I learned that you don't have to be 100% to succeed. It made me a better stronger person, and removed the consideration of quitting. Everyone has their limits, proud to say I still don't know mine.

quake
02-11-2012, 16:22
...Everyone has their limits, proud to say I still don't know mine.

:supergrin: That's one of the sadder things one learns with time; we learn our limits. Don't get me wrong - doesn't mean I intend to quit trying. Just means I realize I gradually have a lesser chance of succeeding; which just makes me more realistic and deliberate, and that's probably a good thing.

Jake514
02-23-2012, 06:40
In the Hanoi Hilton, Admiral James A. Stockton was asked who were the first to sucumb to the pressure of being a P.O.W. He replied it was easy - the optimistic go first. They always think release or help is right around the corner and they will be home for Thanksgiving, when that does not happen then they think they will be home for Christmas, etc. Eventually when help does not come they quickly sucumb to the pressures and die.

I am told I am a pessimist so I guess I would be around to bother people for awhile.

pugman
02-24-2012, 06:58
When I'm surrounded by a pile of brass and shells...then I guess I pull out my knife...

But even in the Road 8-10 years after a major SHTF event people were still surviving on something other than each other.

IMO, the key to not giving up is focusing on some goal. Some here have said they would focus on their kids.....me.

Personally, I would become a cannibal hunter. Have a nice suppressed rifle you can reach out with and tag some of those scumbags. The beauty of it...they wouldn't even really come after you...they would just eat their buddies.

Cavalry Doc
02-24-2012, 08:42
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Jvs2zaO_7V8/TZXyTap03aI/AAAAAAAAHRY/UY9tVT_WhIE/s400/never-give-up-frog.jpg

Giving up is not something I've ever planned on doing. No matter how bad it gets, there will be something worth doing.

SFCSMITH(RET)
02-24-2012, 09:27
When will I give up??

WOLVERINES!!

Bren
02-24-2012, 09:39
So, as an intellectual exercise, how long so you think you’d last in the face of such a terrible event? (And I mean something like The Road, a worst case scenario.) Even if you prepped out the wazoo, what would you do when even that fails? When would you give up?

I don't even really understand the question. WHY would you give up? If you are going to die, you are going to die, but there's no reason to sit down and take it. I could see more reasons to "give up" in an ordinary civilized world like we have now than in post-apocalyptic anarchy.

kirgi08
02-24-2012, 09:53
When I'm dead.'08. :50cal: