Ran into an interesting situation tonight... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Cletus
02-09-2012, 22:59
Well, tonight I'm out with a friend getting some fast food around 10:00pm. We pull up to the drive-through and are looking at the menu, when out of the corner of my right eye I see a scruffy looking man approaching the passenger door. I am in the passenger seat with my window half way down and my seat belt on over my hoodie. I am carrying my g23 appendix @ 12 o'clock so the belt it over the gun. I also have an lcp in my back pocket with my wallet, without one chambered.

At this point the man in about 5 feet from me with his hands are in his very dirty hoodie's big front pocket. He looks like a complete bum, which is very rare to see in the nice part of town we were at. He starts to mumble something and motions me to roll down the window. I roll the window down all the way to hear what he is saying. He asks me if I am familiar with the area so I reply "yes." He starts feeding me some BS about how no one is helping him and he is out of gas and he just needs some money to get to some church function he is trying to get to. It's 10pm and this guy does not look like he owns a car.

He starts to get closer and closer to the car. I can smell alcohol coming off of him. There is a million things racing through my head. We are in a brand new BMW and I don't know if he's about to pull a gun from his pocket and carjack us or rob us. I can't get to my primary fast without unbuckling and pulling up my hoodie and shirt to draw and my secondary is in my back pocket unchambered.

He comes to about a foot away and crouches down next to the passenger door. He is still rambling on about how no one will help him and If I will just give him money he will leave us alone. I can't see his hands anymore due to his crouched position so I glance at my friend and give him the "let's GTFO here" look... I tell the guy I can't help him and start to roll the window up as my friend speeds away.

All I can think about now is the fact that I am safe. But in the back of my head I start thinking how it could have gone horribly wrong and what I would do. It really made me think it is time to buy a pocket holster and start carrying the lcp chambered. What do you do in a situation like this where your confined to a small area with a seat belt on if he pulled out a gun?

The situation turned out ok, but it makes me want to take a self defense class involving being in an automobile. I have seen a local martial arts studio in their parking lot doing drills with the blue training Glocks in cars. It might be worth looking into. Sorry for the long read but, I just wanted to see what your ideas may be.
Thanks

F14Scott
02-09-2012, 23:09
Driving away was the best idea of the night.

If you were stuck in the drive through, I would have rolled UP the window and used the time when the bum was trying to figure out his next move to unbuckle and get my hand on my CCW.

Often, my natural inclination is to do the opposite of what someone who is antagonizing me wants me to do. It changes the fight from a defensive one to an offensive one, one where the bad guy is now having to react to me.

Bucky89
02-09-2012, 23:11
In some places, the police will buy you a small amount of gas.

Also, if he's drunk, it's probably best he's out of gas.

SpectreRider
02-09-2012, 23:15
To start with, you roll the window up, not down.

Foxtrotx1
02-09-2012, 23:19
You have not dealt with many drunk natives I gather.

427
02-09-2012, 23:23
Why did you roll the window down? I would've just ignored the guy rather than make eye contact, much less talked to the vato.

Gregg702
02-09-2012, 23:24
You have not dealt with many drunk natives I gather.

Seems like it. He should have kept the window up and ignored the guy.

Cletus
02-09-2012, 23:24
I have dealt with them on many occasions even in a car. But I feel as if I let my guard down because of where I was. Like I said it was a very nice part of town where there is virtually no bums. If I was in a sketchy part of town I feel as if I would have been in a different mindset. I would have been more alert and attentive to my surroundings. I let my guard down. But I should not have. I know rolling the window down was problem #1. There was a car in front of us so there was no going forward at the time. I also think if it was just me in my car I would have reacted much differently.

Gunhaver
02-09-2012, 23:26
I've been approached by drunks with a line hundreds of times. Never once did I feel like they were going to rob me or like I needed to draw a gun. But if he asked you for money and you really were that concerned with his mannerisms then that was the perfect opportunity to reach for your wallet and come out with the BUG instead. "Sorry, no cash on me, move along." and you have your gun in hand if he doesn't like your answer.

4TS&W
02-09-2012, 23:36
You should have asked him for money first, tell him you don't have enough to supersize... they don't know what to say to that usually... :)

Geeorge
02-09-2012, 23:37
That's what you get for being in a BMW:tongueout:

Cletus
02-09-2012, 23:37
I've been approached by drunks with a line hundreds of times. Never once did I feel like they were going to rob me or like I needed to draw a gun. But if he asked you for money and you really were that concerned with his mannerisms then that was the perfect opportunity to reach for your wallet and come out with the BUG instead. "Sorry, no cash on me, move along." and you have your gun in hand if he doesn't like your answer.

That makes sense and Is one of the first things that came to mind when he asked for money. Having it unchambered is what stopped me from doing so. Another thing to think about, say I do pull my BUG and he then pulls out his gun and I fire making a non-fatal shot (all hypothetical talk) The cops come and hear the stories from both sides. I drew my weapon first and he combats that with pulling his gun in self defense...

SPIN2010
02-09-2012, 23:44
In some places, the police will buy you a small amount of gas.

I actually had that exact thing happen to me one time. I was out on an FSE job, forgot my wallet and had a car crash with the replacement rental not having enough gas to get me back home (state away). I had a very nice Kentucky State Trooper offer to by me gas, we went to the car (which was at the pump, this is how I found I did not have my wallet was when I went to pay in advance). Funny part was this: He tried to put gas in it and it was full. When I went to pay in advance and found I did not have my wallet, someone on the inside of the truck stop authorized the pump and it had filled the car while I was inside figuring "How" I was going to pay. :dunno:

BTW way I sent a message to the KY gov for the trooper's service thanking him. :cool:

Gunhaver
02-09-2012, 23:50
That makes sense and Is one of the first things that came to mind when he asked for money. Having it unchambered is what stopped me from doing so. Another thing to think about, say I do pull my BUG and he then pulls out his gun and I fire making a non-fatal shot (all hypothetical talk) The cops come and hear the stories from both sides. I drew my weapon first and he combats that with pulling his gun in self defense...

He's a drunk bum who approached you asking for money. Story still looks bad for him. Odds are if he sauced and stumbling around asking for gas money he isn't carrying with a permit and if I were a cop/DA considering who to charge in a permit to permit shootout I'd charge the one with the obscene BAC. Drawing your gun from an awkward position where he can't see it isn't drawing down on him.

Glock40man
02-09-2012, 23:55
I have dealt with them on many occasions even in a car. But I feel as if I let my guard down because of where I was. Like I said it was a very nice part of town where there is virtually no bums. If I was in a sketchy part of town I feel as if I would have been in a different mindset. I would have been more alert and attentive to my surroundings. I let my guard down. But I should not have. I know rolling the window down was problem #1. There was a car in front of us so there was no going forward at the time. I also think if it was just me in my car I would have reacted much differently.

It happens, you'll leave your window up next time.

JimBianchi
02-09-2012, 23:58
To start with, you roll the window up, not down.

this.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 00:13
:embarassed: Was not thinking straight when it was time to do so. I guess I felt I was at an advantage, knowing I was carrying. It won't happen again. I'm just glad I can look back on this and think what could of happened all I want but knowing nothing did and learn from my mistake.

TalkToTheGlock
02-10-2012, 00:52
You should have reached for the lysol, not the CCW.


iPhone 4

razageorge
02-10-2012, 02:20
Man, you're living on the edge!

Next time you might get a crackhead asking for change, but don't confuse them for zombies!

Damn, does owning a gun just make people more paranoid when they carry? Primary, Secondary? next time just carry a strong flashlight.

I guess growing up in a city with bums all around you just become immune to their antics.

jp3975
02-10-2012, 03:15
Nice part of town? Ive seen them in every part of Atlanta.

One even walked around with me for an hour trying to help me find which parking garage I was in.

Hell of a thing when you lose your car and there's half a dozen garages in the area.:rofl:

Bruce M
02-10-2012, 04:37
I am thinking driving away before he got to the car, noticing him well before he was close, keeping the window shut or rolling it back up would all be better in this situation than a better/different holster.

Bren
02-10-2012, 04:49
Wow. That is definitely a Glock Talk thread.

"I went out mall-ninjaed up with 2 guns and still panicked when a bum came over looking for a handout.":rofl::rofl:

OP, are you "still shaken" like the last Glock Talk member who panicked at the sight of a homeless person?:rofl:

If this "incident" scared you, more guns aren't going to make you brave...just heavier.

schild
02-10-2012, 04:54
Don't eat fast food, most tastes like McCrap.

Ati058
02-10-2012, 05:07
The moment that you were aware of the stranger's odd behavior, appearance or anything that alerted you to start thinking about access to your CCW. First tell your friend what you are looking at. Don't ignore the stranger while he is approaching you. Watch his hands and mentally prepare for battle. If he becomes aggressive, belligerent or you see any weapon you must act fast, fast, fast.

Simultaneously, lock the door (if it is not already), roll up the window enough to prevent anyone from reaching inside to grab you and unbuckle your seatbelt. Draw your weapon but, keep it out of sight until it is necessary to defend yourself. In a loud clear and commanding voice warn the stranger to stay away from the car. Don't threaten or use profanity but, sound authoritative like a police officer (DO NOT say that you are a police officer unless it is true). Tell your friend to drive away if the stranger does not back off or starts to challenge you.

Now that you had some time to think about it; start practicing your draw from behind the steering wheel and the passenger's seat.

Myke_Hart
02-10-2012, 05:13
In the car you are at a disadvantage for drawing down on a attacker.

Keep the window up, only crack it if you must. Drive off if you can.

Your draw is blocked by doors/seat/shifter/console and the fact your bug is NOT loaded and in your back pocket is bad too. I suggest you keep all your guns in condition 1 on your person at all times. (I personally never understood having a unloaded weapon on your person. :dunno:)

When I am driving I keep my gun under my leg pointed at the door.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/MISC/IMG_2933.jpg

When driving with others "that are not in the know" I will keep it in my front pocket (rear pocket will work) or in the center console.

If held at gun/knife point, you can say "let me give you my wallet!", Instead of wallet you pull out your gun. Don't forget to pull the trigger after doing so.:supergrin:

Glad you got away safe.

Rumbler_G20
02-10-2012, 05:14
Forget buying another holster. What you need is professional training. Before you kill yourself. :wow:


Well, tonight I'm out with a friend getting some fast food around 10:00pm. We pull up to the drive-through and are looking at the menu, when out of the corner of my right eye I see a scruffy looking man approaching the passenger door. I am in the passenger seat with my window half way down and my seat belt on over my hoodie. I am carrying my g23 appendix @ 12 o'clock so the belt it over the gun. I also have an lcp in my back pocket with my wallet, without one chambered.

At this point the man in about 5 feet from me with his hands are in his very dirty hoodie's big front pocket. He looks like a complete bum, which is very rare to see in the nice part of town we were at. He starts to mumble something and motions me to roll down the window. I roll the window down all the way to hear what he is saying. He asks me if I am familiar with the area so I reply "yes." He starts feeding me some BS about how no one is helping him and he is out of gas and he just needs some money to get to some church function he is trying to get to. It's 10pm and this guy does not look like he owns a car.

He starts to get closer and closer to the car. I can smell alcohol coming off of him. There is a million things racing through my head. We are in a brand new BMW and I don't know if he's about to pull a gun from his pocket and carjack us or rob us. I can't get to my primary fast without unbuckling and pulling up my hoodie and shirt to draw and my secondary is in my back pocket unchambered.

He comes to about a foot away and crouches down next to the passenger door. He is still rambling on about how no one will help him and If I will just give him money he will leave us alone. I can't see his hands anymore due to his crouched position so I glance at my friend and give him the "let's GTFO here" look... I tell the guy I can't help him and start to roll the window up as my friend speeds away.

All I can think about now is the fact that I am safe. But in the back of my head I start thinking how it could have gone horribly wrong and what I would do. It really made me think it is time to buy a pocket holster and start carrying the lcp chambered. What do you do in a situation like this where your confined to a small area with a seat belt on if he pulled out a gun?

The situation turned out ok, but it makes me want to take a self defense class involving being in an automobile. I have seen a local martial arts studio in their parking lot doing drills with the blue training Glocks in cars. It might be worth looking into. Sorry for the long read but, I just wanted to see what your ideas may be.
Thanks

Ati058
02-10-2012, 05:40
I have dealt with them on many occasions even in a car. But I feel as if I let my guard down because of where I was. Like I said it was a very nice part of town where there is virtually no bums. If I was in a sketchy part of town I feel as if I would have been in a different mindset. I would have been more alert and attentive to my surroundings. I let my guard down. But I should not have. I know rolling the window down was problem #1. There was a car in front of us so there was no going forward at the time. I also think if it was just me in my car I would have reacted much differently.

Trouble always seem to happen whenever you lease expect it. The whole purpose and responsibility for having a CCW is being prepared to defend yourself, family and loved onesÖ Otherwise you're just another one of the many clueless sheeple who "hope" that nothing bad will ever happen to them in their "safe" neighborhoods.

Criminals don't have boundariesÖ

Bren
02-10-2012, 05:45
Man, you're living on the edge!

Next time you might get a crackhead asking for change, but don't confuse them for zombies!

Damn, does owning a gun just make people more paranoid when they carry? Primary, Secondary? next time just carry a strong flashlight.


The anti-gunners claim people own guns because they are more afraid than the ordinary person. I never believed that and, in real life, always found gun owners to be the least afraid of anything, with or without a gun, and found the antis to be afraid of everything, including guns.

BUT - on Glock Talk I have run into types I never met in real life and one of those types is the type who really does seem to own guns because they are afraid of EVERYTHING.

To their credit, I have also considered that some of them aren't so much afraid of everything as they are living in a fantasy world of imaginary danger that makes carrying a gun "cool."

Either way, I'm not impressed or happy to have them in the alleged "shooting community."

beatcop
02-10-2012, 05:52
Ok, so you've been clubbbed like a baby seal for your lack of socialization....it's ok, we've all probably been there.

Don't carry your gun under your leg please. Unlikely, but other "incidents" have occured with guys having the gun pop out onto the floor in accidents (out there, I know, but Miami shootout is the best example). Let alone, just hopping out and having it sit on the seat or having it grabbed.

Just put a can of spray in your door pocket for those unexpected moments.

lwt210
02-10-2012, 05:54
I have had more than enough experience dealing with homeless types asking/begging for money at drive through fast food establishments.

Anyone that thinks they are harmless is not getting out enough.

They can be very unpredictable in their reactions to "no, can't spare a dollar" ranging from kicking the car door to pulling a box cutter. I haven't ran across one yet that didn't have a box cutter on them or some other edged tool.

OP, realizing that you let your guard down is the best lesson you learned from this as is the mistake letting the window down at his request. Bad things happen on "good" sides of town and I think that you will be more observant in the future.

Most are just looking for that handout. When I see them coming up, I have beat them to the punch and asked them for a dollar. It usually throws them off their game just enough to let them know that they are barking up the wrong tree.

And I'd carry that BUG chambered....but that is just me being me.

Huaco Kid
02-10-2012, 06:02
I've gotten myself out of more questionable situations by loudly and exuberantly blurting out something completely incoherent and totally out of context towards the weirdo, than I ever have by going for my gun (which is never).

svtpwnz
02-10-2012, 08:07
I've been approached by drunks with a line hundreds of times. Never once did I feel like they were going to rob me or like I needed to draw a gun. But if he asked you for money and you really were that concerned with his mannerisms then that was the perfect opportunity to reach for your wallet and come out with the BUG instead. "Sorry, no cash on me, move along." and you have your gun in hand if he doesn't like your answer.

+1 most of the bums I have encountered are completely harmless. I always keep aware of my surroundings as much as possible so I don't get caught off guard in situations like this cause you never know.

cowboy1964
02-10-2012, 08:20
One may want to check one's state's brandishing laws before pulling the weapon so quickly. Even bums have cell phones too these days and you could be opening yourself up to some REAL hassle. Just sayin'...

Bruce M
02-10-2012, 08:22
The moment that you were aware of the stranger's odd behavior, appearance or anything that alerted you to start thinking about access to your CCW. ....
The moment that you were aware of the stranger's odd behavior you should be looking for an avenue(s) of escape. About always that will be the best solution to the problem. It will save time, possibly huge amounts of money and possibly major legal hurdles.

Mayhem like Me
02-10-2012, 08:24
I wept when I read the OP's story..............






Don't roll down your window.

If you can't spot a predator yet examine why you carry a gun(s).

Be safe out there and take a class on personal protection..

Mayhem like Me
02-10-2012, 08:26
In the car you are at a disadvantage for drawing down on a attacker.

Keep the window up, only crack it if you must. Drive off if you can.

Your draw is blocked by doors/seat/shifter/console and the fact your bug is NOT loaded and in your back pocket is bad too. I suggest you keep all your guns in condition 1 on your person at all times. (I personally never understood having a unloaded weapon on your person. :dunno:)

When I am driving I keep my gun under my leg pointed at the door.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/MISC/IMG_2933.jpg

When driving with others "that are not in the know" I will keep it in my front pocket (rear pocket will work) or in the center console.

If held at gun/knife point, you can say "let me give you my wallet!", Instead of wallet you pull out your gun. Don't forget to pull the trigger after doing so.:supergrin:

Glad you got away safe.


Hey enough with the "junk shots" this is PG....:rofl:

okie
02-10-2012, 08:27
Don't eat fast food, most tastes like McCrap.

Cept for Taco Bell and Wendys:supergrin:

happyguy
02-10-2012, 08:50
I would have slammed the door open and then stomped him into the ground. Then I would have urinated on him while my buddy video'd the whole thing so I could post it on Youtube. :whistling:

You are such a pansy.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

IrishSheepdog54
02-10-2012, 09:01
Two guns and you panicked. Wow. Heed the advice of some posters above and get some training.

zoyter2
02-10-2012, 09:10
Wow. That is definitely a Glock Talk thread.

"I went out mall-ninjaed up with 2 guns and still panicked when a bum came over looking for a handout.":rofl::rofl:

OP, are you "still shaken" like the last Glock Talk member who panicked at the sight of a homeless person?:rofl:

If this "incident" scared you, more guns aren't going to make you brave...just heavier.


LOL...all true, but I love the last line.

Sgt127
02-10-2012, 09:22
Eh. I've left the window rolled up and simply ignored them with a dismissive wave and a "no" headshake.

I've driven off.

I've opened the door, got out and talked to them just long enough to tell them I'm not giving them money and to go away. Get out kinda quickly and assertive, but, reasonably pleasant to begin with.

I'm not a big fan of being trapped in the car while he is hovering in my window. As a matter of fact, thats one scenario that I haven't done.

I haven't gone for my gun yet.

GTFord1
02-10-2012, 09:22
I've dealt with scruffy looking old drunks before. Never was there an incident interesting enough to make a post how I was freaking out about it, or scary enough to make me eye my pistol. Next time, upon seeing a dirty looking drunk man approaching your vehicle, start throwing smoke grenades out of the window and lay down at least thirty seconds of suppressive fire. It may also help to start blaring some Lady Gaga or Madonna, as scruffy old drunks are driven away by this type of music. Do not, DO NOT make the mistake of blaring Steely Dan or Lynyrd Skynyrd, as this may chum in more scruffy old white drunks. The combination of smoke, a few thousand rounds of fire (you DO carry F/A guns in the car, right?) and "Poker Face" should stop these incidents before they escalate to him asking you for change to buy a value menu cheeseburger.

Pierre!
02-10-2012, 09:23
Congratulations Cletus!

You *survived* your first 'Professional Training' session!

Trust me - Most training won't even get you that level of training.

Sounds like you were getting some adrenaline, and your thinking went pretty much out the window.

You get Kudos for seeing the 'predator' prior to first contact, but rolling the window down - well, you got told about that move already... :wow:

So - What's next???

Now you need to review what you told us in your post, and find the answers to you questions.

Here are some more questions for you:
How to access your firearm when belted - in and out of traffic and while moving in traffic?
What would you have done if there were vehicle in front and behind you? No easy escape possible!
Would it be easier just to have some 'bum money' in your console?

Sure, it wasn't your car ... this time ... but now that you have 'enjoyed' Real Life Training Scenarios, use them to map out future scenarios and the preparation required to overcome in those scenarios!

Of course you will keep in mind that your MIND is your greatest defense too, and build both 'everyone walks away' and 'I walk away' solutions to your scenarios...

Add to your reading - Stress Fire is a classic read from Mas Ayoob - Perhaps start there!

After a bit of this 'role playing' in your head you will be ready and prepared for true professional training.

Great to hear that your antennas are up, and you survived... now leverage that moment to build your tool set!

Hope that Helps Ya Out!
Patrick

GTFord1
02-10-2012, 09:32
I forgot another great tactic:

After throwing smoke grenades, (feel free to substitute tear gas, you DO carry gas masks in your car, right?) and the drunk is dazed and confused, start screaming "MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" MORE BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

eclark53520
02-10-2012, 09:35
1. Don't roll the window down. Why the hell would you ever do that given the situation?
2. The answer is ALWAYS NO! When he asks you if you know the area, NO!


Massive fail on this situation.

RoundBrown
02-10-2012, 09:53
Im not seeing the interesting situation at all... what was so interesting.A bum walked up to your car asking for money at 10pm. Hes a bum where do you think he should be at 10pm "home"?.

Streetglider08
02-10-2012, 10:14
Wait. I dont think anyone said this yet! Hopefully I can get it typed fast enough! Here it comes......

Don't roll your window down. Leave it up!

Whew! I feel alot better now. Just incase he didn't see the other 35 replies that said the same exact thing!

Great job people. Big help!

happyguy
02-10-2012, 10:54
Reminds me of the time I ran into Charles Manson at White Castle.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Taurus851
02-10-2012, 11:04
Wow. That is definitely a Glock Talk thread.

"I went out mall-ninjaed up with 2 guns and still panicked when a bum came over looking for a handout.":rofl::rofl:

OP, are you "still shaken" like the last Glock Talk member who panicked at the sight of a homeless person?:rofl:

If this "incident" scared you, more guns aren't going to make you brave...just heavier.

thought the exact same things when i read this thread

cangler
02-10-2012, 11:17
I suggest you don't go out past dark, the walkers are more aggressive at night.:whistling:

LexDiamonds
02-10-2012, 11:26
The anti-gunners claim people own guns because they are more afraid than the ordinary person. I never believed that and, in real life, always found gun owners to be the least afraid of anything, with or without a gun, and found the antis to be afraid of everything, including guns.

BUT - on Glock Talk I have run into types I never met in real life and one of those types is the type who really does seem to own guns because they are afraid of EVERYTHING.

To their credit, I have also considered that some of them aren't so much afraid of everything as they are living in a fantasy world of imaginary danger that makes carrying a gun "cool."

Either way, I'm not impressed or happy to have them in the alleged "shooting community."


This is a good post.

SpringerTGO
02-10-2012, 11:44
I had an almost identical thing happen last week, right down to the BMW. Not to insult the OP, but I didn't think it was worth posting about.
In my case, I was meeting my GF at a restaurant, saw the guy watching me pull into the parking lot, and follow me to my parking space. This idiot was talking on a cell phone until he got to my car. I guess he was desperate to buy more minutes, or a new I-Phone.:rofl:It was aggravating (being asked for money always is), but I didn't think I was going to die.

In any case, it's not a bad thing to remember that a lot of the homeless are non violent, but also mentally ill. Mental illness does not mean automatic violence. Their erratic behavior might not be because of drugs/alcohol, and they might just be sick people unable to care for themselves.

Creatism
02-10-2012, 12:34
The moment that you were aware of the stranger's odd behavior, appearance or anything that alerted you to start thinking about access to your CCW. First tell your friend what you are looking at. Don't ignore the stranger while he is approaching you. Watch his hands and mentally prepare for battle. If he becomes aggressive, belligerent or you see any weapon you must act fast, fast, fast.

Simultaneously, lock the door (if it is not already), roll up the window enough to prevent anyone from reaching inside to grab you and unbuckle your seatbelt. Draw your weapon but, keep it out of sight until it is necessary to defend yourself. In a loud clear and commanding voice warn the stranger to stay away from the car. Don't threaten or use profanity but, sound authoritative like a police officer (DO NOT say that you are a police officer unless it is true). Tell your friend to drive away if the stranger does not back off or starts to challenge you.

Now that you had some time to think about it; start practicing your draw from behind the steering wheel and the passenger's seat.

What he said.
I will let anyone get close enough to put his hands on me period. If he is still advancing after I tell him "that's close enough" then I put my hand on my gun, and repeat. If he is still
Advancing after all that he will prolly get a look at my 45. And evaluate after that.



Typed from my iPhone.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 12:41
Well I just got around to checking this thread. Thank you for those who actually gave advice. I figured I'd get about 10% positive posts then get the typical GT losers with no life and 16k posts thinking I'm a "mall ninja" because I have two, omg 2 guns!!!! Bren I don't know where you live, but when the houses around me are 5million+ I don't ever see or expect to see this kind of behavior. I can totally understand if I was in Atlanta but I was not. I'm also sorry that I'm 21 and have not gone to war to fight bums on the daily. I was not shookin up I simply realized that if this situation had been different, then I was not prepared to get to my gun. Obviously nothing happened and that is a good thing. Sorry to bore the gt warriors with my not so exciting story. Thank you to the ones who offered advice.

HeliGlock
02-10-2012, 12:52
You were very Lucky my Friend.

xmanhockey7
02-10-2012, 13:52
You seemed to learn a few things
1. Keep a round in the chamber
2. Keep a gun that is easily accessible while sitting down. That is one reason I LOVE carrying in a shoulder holster.
3. Roll the window up not down
4. Try to get out of the situation as fast as possible.

wuvmyglock
02-10-2012, 13:54
Unchambered?? Might as well leave it at home.. Pretty useless..

mgo
02-10-2012, 14:06
Congratulations...you have just completed phase one of the "Sarah Brady Passive Personal Defense Class." You did everything correctly. You complied with the potential assailant so he would not hurt you. You remained in a vulnerable, seated position with no access to your two (!) weapons. After all, unlatching your seat belt and putting your hand on your weapon would have appeared rude. My my... That would have been poor form, indeed in today's polite society.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 19:06
Forget buying another holster. What you need is professional training. Before you kill yourself. :wow:

Who are you? I'm very proficient with all my weapons. Don't tell me what I need. After taking a 3 day course with Michael Janich I feel as if I could have been ok with just my knife if he tried to do something. I'm not saying I don't need more training at all. I actually posted that I would like to take a class involving automobiles in my OP. You guys were not there therefore have no clue what the situation was really like.

3rdgen40
02-10-2012, 19:12
Wow. That is definitely a Glock Talk thread.

"I went out mall-ninjaed up with 2 guns and still panicked when a bum came over looking for a handout.":rofl::rofl:

OP, are you "still shaken" like the last Glock Talk member who panicked at the sight of a homeless person?:rofl:

If this "incident" scared you, more guns aren't going to make you brave...just heavier.
I love your replies to threads like this...:rofl:

garebel
02-10-2012, 20:03
The last homeless guy that I encountered was downtown Atlanta at Crawford Long Hopital parking deck, about six weeks ago.
I also have a "personal zone" that I will not let a stranger get inside, and I did, in fact, tell him "that's close enough" as he moved closer towards me.
He stopped immediately, and it took me about thirty seconds to determine that he was harmless....asked me if I had an extra coat, as it was COLD.
My first response was "no", but then that voice stated nagging at my insides...some of you know exactly what I am talking about, and I ended up yelling at the dude to come back as he was walking away from me.

I wrestled with it, but then reached behind my seat and brought out......
my jacket (Gore Tex lined :crying:) and handed it to him.
Sometimes....you have to listen to "the voice".

Having said that, there is, indeed, plenty of evil running around...and that is why I had the P3AT in the pants pocket, just in case :)

AA#5
02-10-2012, 20:13
Why did you roll the window down? I would've just ignored the guy rather than make eye contact, much less talked to the vato.

What's a "vato?" I think I heard that word in "Training Day." Is it some type of gang member?

AA#5
02-10-2012, 20:17
Who are you? I'm very proficient with all my weapons. Don't tell me what I need. After taking a 3 day course with Michael Janich I feel as if I could have been ok with just my knife if he tried to do something. I'm not saying I don't need more training at all. I actually posted that I would like to take a class involving automobiles in my OP. You guys were not there therefore have no clue what the situation was really like.

That's a classic example of:

"No matter how you handled a situation, or the fact that it turned out perfectly with no one getting hurt, I'll use it to feel smarter than I am by criticizing everything you did. There's no other way for me to feel better about myself."

Dexters
02-10-2012, 20:31
Well I just got around to checking this thread. Thank you for those who actually gave advice. I figured I'd get about 10% positive posts then get the typical GT losers with no life and 16k posts thinking I'm a "mall ninja" because I have two, omg 2 guns!!!! Bren I don't know where you live, but when the houses around me are 5million+ I don't ever see or expect to see this kind of behavior. I can totally understand if I was in Atlanta but I was not. I'm also sorry that I'm 21 and have not gone to war to fight bums on the daily. I was not shookin up I simply realized that if this situation had been different, then I was not prepared to get to my gun. Obviously nothing happened and that is a good thing. Sorry to bore the gt warriors with my not so exciting story. Thank you to the ones who offered advice.

Where do you live? I can only think of Buckhead with houses in the $5 million range.


A couple of thing:
1 - When it doubt get out - so driving away was a good idea.

2 - pepper spray is a good idea so you have non lethal options

3 - if you think someone might damage your car - give them a couple of bucks - it is less expensive - or drive away as you did.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 20:52
Ok some clearification... I was in Roswell across the street from my friend's parent's $5million mansion. I don't see bums up here... At all... Ever. This is why I was caught off guard. We were at a tacobell drive through with a car in front of us so there was no going forward when he first approached. My friend driving was not worried at all because he knows I am carrying. Window is already half way down and the scruffy dude asked if I was familiar with the area, which I was. I thought he wanted directions. Yeah he was sketchy looking but I'm not gonna throw my belt off and draw my weapon on him... I'm not some paranoid freak like Bren assumes I am. So I was going offer my help if the guy was lost. When I realized he was drunk and rambling bull **** with both hands in his pocket I no longer liked where this was going. I told the guy I had no money for him and said sorry. He keeps saying no one will help him and he will leave me alone if I just give him money. At this point the car in front has moved to the window giving us time to go forward and out of the line. This is when I looked at my friend and have him the look to get out of there.

Rupert
02-10-2012, 20:54
Give him a 5 spot and wish him luck.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 21:02
No way in hell am I going to reach in my pocket to pull out a stack of cash for him to see and look for a small bill to give him. Opening the window was my biggest mistake. I'm not going to open my pocket to him.

AA#5
02-10-2012, 21:21
Where do you live? I can only think of Buckhead with houses in the $5 million range.


A couple of thing:
1 - When it doubt get out - so driving away was a good idea.

2 - pepper spray is a good idea so you have non lethal options

3 - if you think someone might damage your car - give them a couple of bucks - it is less expensive - or drive away as you did.

Interesting.
I've done #3 & I also think it's wise. On a date (early 70's), I parked in a movie theater lot. A guy approached us just as we were getting out of my car & said he ran out of gas & asked for some change. I gave him $10.00 & my GF said, "Why did you give him money?" I explained, "Well, we're going to be watching a movie for 2 hours, while he'll be all alone in a dark parking lot with my nice, shiny new car after I just basically told him to F off. I'd have to spend way more than $10.00 to repair the damage he'd likely do."

GTFord1
02-10-2012, 21:26
I've gotta give you credit for being composed enough to type all this out. I would be a nervous wreck after such a harrowing experience. Situations like the one you experienced are truly what makes a man.

Here's another tip, if you end up in this situation again:

When approached, immediately throw out a Mk3 concussion grenade, and begin shouting "RED TEAM GO, RED TEAM GO!" Most likely there will be no red team, but the secret here is, the bum won't know that. In his bewilderment, you should have ample time to perform a PIT maneuver against the vagrant, turning him in the direction of another vehicle or person he can accost.

Cletus
02-10-2012, 21:33
Yep this thread can be closed now. Thanks for those of you who offered advice. Next time I'll throw my grenade at him so I can tell a cool GT story bros!

mortpes
02-10-2012, 22:39
Well my window never goes down. I want them to break the window. My doors are always locked. I never shoot if there is no real threat. And I would not think twice about jumping a lane if needed.

RottnJP
02-11-2012, 00:35
Buy him a burger off the value menu. Drunk bums are people too. I don't like to give them cash, but I'll feed them.

WH5V
02-11-2012, 00:46
Like the post above this one (by Myke_Hart), I keep all CCW in condition 1. Also, I am a big believer in strong side hip holsters, rather than up front pointing at my crotch, or in any pocket. When driving, my CCW is frequently under my leg as in Myke's post, or sitting in the console cup holder out of view from anyone other than someone who would approach the car. Rather than talk about window up or window down, I'd prefer to consider that he could have been a carjacker in any other situation, rather than a drunk this time. Pre-planning is the key. Practice. Consider if you are in a car and approached from left, right, front, rear, car blocked in, able to drive away. Just my 2 cents... okay maybe 10 cents.

Paul53
02-11-2012, 00:57
OP, thanks for the post. I've learned a lot from it and the constructive suggestions. It's a shame that some of the replies are less than useful or appreciate your openess, could keep others from posting other learning opportunities.

Bren
02-11-2012, 05:09
Ok some clearification... I was in Roswell across the street from my friend's parent's $5million mansion. I don't see bums up here... At all... Ever. This is why I was caught off guard. We were at a tacobell drive through with a car in front of us so there was no going forward when he first approached. My friend driving was not worried at all because he knows I am carrying. Window is already half way down and the scruffy dude asked if I was familiar with the area, which I was. I thought he wanted directions. Yeah he was sketchy looking but I'm not gonna throw my belt off and draw my weapon on him... I'm not some paranoid freak like Bren assumes I am. So I was going offer my help if the guy was lost. When I realized he was drunk and rambling bull **** with both hands in his pocket I no longer liked where this was going. I told the guy I had no money for him and said sorry. He keeps saying no one will help him and he will leave me alone if I just give him money. At this point the car in front has moved to the window giving us time to go forward and out of the line. This is when I looked at my friend and have him the look to get out of there.

Allright Cletus - first, if your friend has a $5 million mansion with a taco bell drive-through across the street, he's likely not smart enough to learn a lesson, but I have some legitimate advice for you.

1. Fear will not help you stay safe - awareness maybe, but not fear and especially not the "fight or flight" panic you describe.

2. If you are afraid - pretend you're not and force yourself to ignore the panic and think about the situation. Eventually, you will expose yourself to these simple things that ordinary people face without fear every day, and your fear will decrease. As long as you are more afraid of ordinary situations than my grandmother, your fear just makes people like panhandlers, or even criminals, more aggressive.

3. If you can't control your fear and get it to at least the level of my grandmother, you may seriously want to consider that your gun is as likely to land you in prison from overreaction as to save your life. You may really be better off without it.

Ryobi
02-11-2012, 05:47
This would qualify for that Discovery show "I Shouldn't Be Alive".

Misty02
02-11-2012, 08:49
Most self-defense classes, whether it be martial arts or firearms, will likely teach you what to do in that situation. However, what you first need to learn is how to avoid that situation to start with.

My personal opinion, you should not have acknowledged the scruffy looking man. You should not have engaged him. You shouldnít have opened the window. Your actions pretty much invited him to approach you. Being aware of your surroundings doesnít equate to acknowledging and inviting those that could pose a threat. If that fails, then leave.

There were likely other people in that drive through that saw the same thing, remained aware and didnít become an active participant in this manís issues. The process is pretty much the same whether you are armed or not, whether you are alone or not. The only thing being armed changes is your options if youíre cornered and canít get out.

Well, tonight I'm out with a friend getting some fast food around 10:00pm. We pull up to the drive-through and are looking at the menu, when out of the corner of my right eye I see a scruffy looking man approaching the passenger door. I am in the passenger seat with my window half way down and my seat belt on over my hoodie. I am carrying my g23 appendix @ 12 o'clock so the belt it over the gun. I also have an lcp in my back pocket with my wallet, without one chambered.

At this point the man in about 5 feet from me with his hands are in his very dirty hoodie's big front pocket. He looks like a complete bum, which is very rare to see in the nice part of town we were at. He starts to mumble something and motions me to roll down the window. I roll the window down all the way to hear what he is saying. He asks me if I am familiar with the area so I reply "yes." He starts feeding me some BS about how no one is helping him and he is out of gas and he just needs some money to get to some church function he is trying to get to. It's 10pm and this guy does not look like he owns a car.

He starts to get closer and closer to the car. I can smell alcohol coming off of him. There is a million things racing through my head. We are in a brand new BMW and I don't know if he's about to pull a gun from his pocket and carjack us or rob us. I can't get to my primary fast without unbuckling and pulling up my hoodie and shirt to draw and my secondary is in my back pocket unchambered.

He comes to about a foot away and crouches down next to the passenger door. He is still rambling on about how no one will help him and If I will just give him money he will leave us alone. I can't see his hands anymore due to his crouched position so I glance at my friend and give him the "let's GTFO here" look... I tell the guy I can't help him and start to roll the window up as my friend speeds away.

All I can think about now is the fact that I am safe. But in the back of my head I start thinking how it could have gone horribly wrong and what I would do. It really made me think it is time to buy a pocket holster and start carrying the lcp chambered. What do you do in a situation like this where your confined to a small area with a seat belt on if he pulled out a gun?

The situation turned out ok, but it makes me want to take a self defense class involving being in an automobile. I have seen a local martial arts studio in their parking lot doing drills with the blue training Glocks in cars. It might be worth looking into. Sorry for the long read but, I just wanted to see what your ideas may be.
Thanks

Dexters
02-11-2012, 08:57
Most self-defense classes, whether it be martial arts or firearms, will likely teach you what to do in that situation. However, what you first need to learn is how to avoid that situation to start with.

My personal opinion, you should not have acknowledged the scruffy looking man. You should not have engaged him. You shouldnít have opened the window. Your actions pretty much invited him to approach you. Being aware of your surroundings doesnít equate to acknowledging and inviting those that could pose a threat. If that fails, then leave.

There were likely other people in that drive through that saw the same thing, remained aware and didnít become an active participant in this manís issues. The process is pretty much the same whether you are armed or not, whether you are alone or not. The only thing being armed changes is your options if youíre cornered and canít get out.

Misty02,

You are correct. One thing I've learned about most people is that they find it difficult to say no and do not know how to deal with even verbal confrontations. They will generally give in. They don't know how to deflect the conversation etc.

I grew up in a large city and don't have a problem with it.

Part of the answer is what you are saying - being aware but not acknowleging the other person, part is your verbal and body language.

Misty02
02-11-2012, 10:27
Who are you? I'm very proficient with all my weapons. Don't tell me what I need. After taking a 3 day course with Michael Janich I feel as if I could have been ok with just my knife if he tried to do something. I'm not saying I don't need more training at all. I actually posted that I would like to take a class involving automobiles in my OP. You guys were not there therefore have no clue what the situation was really like.

Cletus, being proficient with your weapon is one part of an effective self-defense plan. However, considering that going for your weapon is the last card in the deck that is played, you need to be as proficient (if not more) in awareness of your surrounding and your response to others.

May I suggest attending a crime prevention program/class where you gain some exposure to threat identification, prevention and avoidance?

As far as being in nicer upscale neighborhood, if you were a thief, would you target poor neighborhoods where youíll be lucky to find someone with $10 in their wallet or would you target better neighborhoods where people are likely to have more cash/valuables on them?

It seems you have the awareness part, now you have to work on using it to prevent and avoid the encounter in the first place. Learn the techniques to keep people you donít want close to you from getting closer and actually create distance between you and them. That is something most people learn growing up and taught by their parents, so you may need a crash course to get where you need to be on that one. It is achieved with body language, vocal commands and quite often mere eye contact; but that only comes to play when it became necessary to communicate your wishes to the other person because avoiding getting there was not possible. You should be able to maintain control over the majority of the undesired encounters you have through life. Possession of a firearm or the skills you have acquired in handling one wonít even be in the radar most of the time; however, it is nice to have them for those fewer events where another remains in control and is intent in harming you or loved ones.

Good luck, build that SD arsenal and arm yourself with more than a firearm and the skills to use it.

.

Misty02
02-11-2012, 10:52
The last homeless guy that I encountered was downtown Atlanta at Crawford Long Hopital parking deck, about six weeks ago.
I also have a "personal zone" that I will not let a stranger get inside, and I did, in fact, tell him "that's close enough" as he moved closer towards me.
He stopped immediately, and it took me about thirty seconds to determine that he was harmless....asked me if I had an extra coat, as it was COLD.
My first response was "no", but then that voice stated nagging at my insides...some of you know exactly what I am talking about, and I ended up yelling at the dude to come back as he was walking away from me.

I wrestled with it, but then reached behind my seat and brought out......
my jacket (Gore Tex lined :crying:) and handed it to him.
Sometimes....you have to listen to "the voice".

Having said that, there is, indeed, plenty of evil running around...and that is why I had the P3AT in the pants pocket, just in case :)

Your post made me smile! :)

Besides the obvious good gesture there are important lessons in your post.

Development and enforcement of oneís personal zone, a biggie for me and I assume for most people. Few, if any, are allowed to enter that personal zone unless I want them there (which rarely apply to strangers unless they are children or a fragile elderly person).

You identified the violation of your personal zone and stopped the advance. You took the time to further analyze and indentify the possible threat and found none. The nature of his request and the fact he turned away (giving up and not forcing the contact) lowered your alertness to the possible danger. It was then your brain was able to changed gears to further analyze what was actually going on.

You did well! You may have lost your Gore Tex lined jacket, but that gesture will be paid tenfold in the future; of that I have little doubt. :supergrin:

.

Misty02
02-11-2012, 11:04
No way in hell am I going to reach in my pocket to pull out a stack of cash for him to see and look for a small bill to give him. Opening the window was my biggest mistake. I'm not going to open my pocket to him.

Another non-firearm related advice, keep your bills folded in half with the largest denomination toward the center. All bills should be facing the same way (Iím anal retentive about that, and other things). If you need to pay $18 for something, take the three singles from the top, a $5 and then the $10. There should be no reason for anyone to see a $20 bill unless you only had the one $10 and the next is the $20. If youíre really anal retentive, then you donít keep the ďreal moneyĒ in the same spot with the petty cash you take out for daily minor expenses.

I donít often carry that much cash but when I need to, what I take out in public to pay for things doesnít let others around know how much I actually have on me.

.

Misty02
02-11-2012, 11:24
Misty02,

You are correct. One thing I've learned about most people is that they find it difficult to say no and do not know how to deal with even verbal confrontations. They will generally give in. They don't know how to deflect the conversation etc.

I grew up in a large city and don't have a problem with it.

Part of the answer is what you are saying - being aware but not acknowleging the other person, part is your verbal and body language.

Perhaps where we live has conditioned us differently than other people? Most people would respond to a ďlookĒ if Iím forced to speak ďNo!Ē seems to always be the first thing out of my mouth. I would actually have to take a step back and a second to think to come up with another answer. Between the fact that Iím nearly always in a rush and the fact that by nature Iím not normally a friendly person, a stranger approaching is perceived at the very least an inconvenience Iíll attempt to avoid, if at all possible. Exceptions are made for the elderly and children, rarely a courtesy I would extend to able bodied adults. That is just me and I freely admit that I'm not a nice person.... :embarassed:

.

beatcop
02-11-2012, 11:41
wwjd :cool:


The vast majority of the homeless population is made of mentally ill &/or substance abusers. Their behavior can be erratic at times, but begging is something that a lot of them do all day, every day...not a reason to start drawing or flashing.

Tell them "No" if you want to or give 'em a dollar in a secure manner. I ordinarily say "No", but have given them change or a dollar that can be retrieved from a pocket (wallet=nogo!).

Like others have said, if you have a nice car, you may want to just give them a dollar...yup, extorsion, but you would likely piss $5 away on a gun rag, coffee, etc.

Risk vs Reward that's the name of all these scenarios. Are you increasing the risk of violence by giving a dollar? It's up to you to do the evalution based on your experience.