Why was man created in the image of God? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Why was man created in the image of God?


Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 11:40
God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty.

Because of this individual liberty a very powerful and beautiful angel decided he could give himself a promotion to control of the universe.

God himself was accused of being selfish and domineering. His laws and His principles were accused of being too difficult to keep.

Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

I Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

Japle
02-10-2012, 12:23
God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty.

Right. As long as you love (or at least fear) the right god, accept what his priests tell you is the truth and don't try to exercise your liberty in any way that would offend his priests.

God himself was accused of being selfish and domineering

Well .......... YEAH!! :upeyes:

Man was supposedly created in the image of a local god, because the folks involved couldn't come up with a better model.

That's what you call a failure of imagination.

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 12:47
Oh, this promises to be a good thread. I will drop in later this afternoon.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

GreenDrake
02-10-2012, 12:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEChFDeH7Ig

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 13:59
Right. As long as you love (or at least fear) the right god, accept what his priests tell you is the truth and don't try to exercise your liberty in any way that would offend his priests.



Does this mean that you think Jesus was like this? If so then apparently satan's propaganda is working on you.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Perhaps if you so easily offend God's priests you are talking to the wrong ones.

II Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Japle
02-10-2012, 14:08
When it comes right down to it, the original question, "Why was man created in the image of God", is based on an invalid assumption.

There's a frosted cookie in it for the first one to tell us what that invalid assumption was.

GO!!

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 14:08
Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.

I picked this line out of your original post, simply because it doesn't jive with anything that I have been taught before.
First, let's start with educating me on what accusations these were and secondly when did these accusations come about?

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 14:09
When it comes right down to it, the original question, "Why was man created in the image of God", is based on an invalid assumption.

There's a frosted cookie in it for the first one to tell us what that invalid assumption was.

GO!!

What color is the frosting?

ArtificialGrape
02-10-2012, 14:42
When it comes right down to it, the original question, "Why was man created in the image of God", is based on an invalid assumption.

There's a frosted cookie in it for the first one to tell us what that invalid assumption was.

GO!!

(a) Man was "created"?
(b) God exists?

fgutie35
02-10-2012, 14:50
I think the basic principles are Faith, Hope and Love.
Why is it that people always take "God created man in His own image" out of context? Mayority of people always relate it to the physical, appearance and the discussion always ends talking about aliens!
In my own opinion, God is made up of three divine entities (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). We humans are also made up of three components (flesh, soul, and spirit). I truly believe that our ultimate true identity when all is said and done, is going to be something very siimilar to God's being (Own Image).

Guss
02-10-2012, 15:09
God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty.

Back when there was only God, there was individual liberty. Once you introduce a second being, that changes.



Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.


Looks like a big FAIL for God on that one.

Japle
02-10-2012, 16:08
(a) Man was "created"?
(b) God exists?

AG wins the cookie!!

It's on my front porch, right next to the ant traps.

427
02-10-2012, 16:08
If I was an all knowing, all powerful, perfect God creating a being in my image, it wouldn't have any flaws. It would be perfect.

Man is flawed. So what does that say?

Roering
02-10-2012, 16:18
God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty.

Because of this individual liberty a very powerful and beautiful angel decided he could give himself a promotion to control of the universe.

God himself was accused of being selfish and domineering. His laws and His principles were accused of being too difficult to keep.

Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

I Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

So that I can understand you better on this, could you provide your definition of "in the image of God".

I think that is a good starting point as my definition may be different than yours.

FCoulter
02-10-2012, 17:05
God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty.

Because of this individual liberty a very powerful and beautiful angel decided he could give himself a promotion to control of the universe.

God himself was accused of being selfish and domineering. His laws and His principles were accused of being too difficult to keep.

Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

I Corinthians 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

You state man was created in the image of God correct? and yet you claim Jesus is God correct? and yet you claim Jesus was Michael the archangel correct?

So basically then you are saying man was created in the image of a angel.

Correct me if I am wrong am I on the right tract with your beliefs?

SDGlock23
02-10-2012, 17:31
For what it's worth I think Genesis 1 man is not the same as Spirit-breathed Adam of Gen. 2. I think the fallen angels (Annunaki, etc) created a human-like race, but they were dumb and for mining gold here on earth, after all the Lord told Adam to replenish the earth, and you can't replenish something if there wasn't something there to begin with. Adam was created in God's image.

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:04
I picked this line out of your original post, simply because it doesn't jive with anything that I have been taught before.
First, let's start with educating me on what accusations these were and secondly when did these accusations come about?

If you were taught the Truth you would probably know that it is God that is on trial not man.

1. We know that satan is the accuser. He accused Job of selfishness didn't he?
he said that Job would curse God if God didn't give him blessings. Job was made in the image of God and God even recommended Job to satan.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

2. These accusations were from the beginning. I think the beginning means creation. Obviously a third of the angels believed them and were cast out of heaven with Lucifer.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:09
I think the basic principles are Faith, Hope and Love.
Why is it that people always take "God created man in His own image" out of context? Mayority of people always relate it to the physical, appearance and the discussion always ends talking about aliens!
In my own opinion, God is made up of three divine entities (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). We humans are also made up of three components (flesh, soul, and spirit). I truly believe that our ultimate true identity when all is said and done, is going to be something very siimilar to God's being (Own Image).

The image of God is not necessarily physical. It was not Jesus physical attributes that made Him Wonderful.

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:13
Back when there was only God, there was individual liberty. Once you introduce a second being, that changes.



Looks like a big FAIL for God on that one.

It only appears to be a fail because Adam lost the image of God and became like satan, selfish and devious.

The fall into sin was one of the first evidences of satans methods failing. satan deceived Eve, Eve did not believe the Truth and sin resulted in Adam and Eve's death. If God's principles had been adhered to satan would have been defeated in the Garden of Eden.

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:14
If I was an all knowing, all powerful, perfect God creating a being in my image, it wouldn't have any flaws. It would be perfect.

Man is flawed. So what does that say?

You are not a man?

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:16
So that I can understand you better on this, could you provide your definition of "in the image of God".

I think that is a good starting point as my definition may be different than yours.

As I answered another poster, Jesus was the express image of God according to the book of Hebrews.

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 20:18
You state man was created in the image of God correct? and yet you claim Jesus is God correct? and yet you claim Jesus was Michael the archangel correct?

So basically then you are saying man was created in the image of a angel.

Correct me if I am wrong am I on the right tract with your beliefs?

If you are saying that the Arkangel is a created being then you are on the wrong track.

427
02-10-2012, 20:35
You are not a man?

I'm a man with flaws.

Being a man with flaws, if I was to create a being/man in my image, I'd strive for perfection. And I certainly not go into mass production with something as flawed as man.

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 20:53
If you were taught the Truth you would probably know that it is God that is on trial not man.

1. We know that satan is the accuser. He accused Job of selfishness didn't he?
he said that Job would curse God if God didn't give him blessings. Job was made in the image of God and God even recommended Job to satan.

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

2. These accusations were from the beginning. I think the beginning means creation. Obviously a third of the angels believed them and were cast out of heaven with Lucifer.

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

OK, let me get this straight, because it is the truth, right? You said that man was created in God's image as a spectacle to answer the accusations of Lucifer. I asked what those accusations were and when they happened. And you answered above. So it would appear that God created man in his image to answer the accusation that Job was selfish even though Job didn't exist until a couple thousand years later, but those accuations were from te beginning of time?

One more thing, just so we are on the same page. Lucifer, the Devil and Satan. Are they one and the same or are they three different beings?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 21:01
OK, let me get this straight, because it is the truth, right? You said that man was created in God's image as a spectacle to answer the accusations of Lucifer. I asked what those accusations were and when they happened. And you answered above. So it would appear that God created man in his image to answer the accusation that Job was selfish even though Job didn't exist until a couple thousand years later, but those accuations were from te beginning of time?

One more thing, just so we are on the same page. Lucifer, the Devil and Satan. Are they one and the same or are they three different beings?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Jesus was the very embodiment of God's principles. This was a couple of thousand years after Job. A few thousand years a re a small sliver of time in the light of eternity.

Yes, lucifer, the devil, and satan are different names for the fallen covering angel. Lucifer means light bearer, but he became the devil and satan through his pride and selfish desire to control God;s creation.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

NMG26
02-10-2012, 21:16
Man was created in the image of God as a spectacle to the universe for God to make His case against the accusations of Lucifer.


God was created in the image of man.

Read that again.

Everything that we know about God, every record, every thought, every theology, every doctrine, every dogma has come from the mind of mankind.
We are God.
We are the devil as well.

I choose to believe in one creator who has no enemy. The God within and the God without are one.
Humanity has God inside, every one.

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 21:17
Jesus was the very embodiment of God's principles. This was a couple of thousand years after Job. A few thousand years a re a small sliver of time in the light of eternity.

Yes, lucifer, the devil, and satan are different names for the fallen covering angel. Lucifer means light bearer, but he became the devil and satan through his pride and selfish desire to control God;s creation.

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

How did Jesus come into this conversation? We were talking about why God made man in his image. I pointed out that your explanation would indicate that the reason God made man in his image was because of an even that happened a couple thousand years later. Then along comes Jesus in the conversation. With an explanation that a few thousand years is not a long time in eternity. OK. But was about God creating man in his image because of an event that happened after man was already created.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Vic Hays
02-10-2012, 22:21
How did Jesus come into this conversation? We were talking about why God made man in his image. I pointed out that your explanation would indicate that the reason God made man in his image was because of an even that happened a couple thousand years later. Then along comes Jesus in the conversation. With an explanation that a few thousand years is not a long time in eternity. OK. But was about God creating man in his image because of an event that happened after man was already created.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

We don't seem to be communicating very well.

Lucifer was where sin began. It began with his pride in himself. He subtly got support from some of the other angels and then when man was created in the image of God, lucifer showed up as the serpent to cause man to fall by a deception. Lucifer had already fallen beforehand.

the principles satan was operating on are selfishness, force, and deceit.

These principles caused a rift between man and God. It was not God that changed. It was man. These principles which are contrary to God's principles lead to sin and death.

lomfs24
02-10-2012, 22:53
We don't seem to be communicating very well.

Lucifer was where sin began. It began with his pride in himself. He subtly got support from some of the other angels and then when man was created in the image of God, lucifer showed up as the serpent to cause man to fall by a deception. Lucifer had already fallen beforehand.

the principles satan was operating on are selfishness, force, and deceit.

These principles caused a rift between man and God. It was not God that changed. It was man. These principles which are contrary to God's principles lead to sin and death.

OK, I didn't understand that you were saying that Satan had fallen prior to the creation of man. And, of course, you are using John 8:44 for support of that position? Is it possible that in John 8:44 when it since "from the beginning" that it meant from the time that he told the lie to Eve? Rather than from the beginning meaning prior to the creation of man?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

FCoulter
02-11-2012, 07:10
If you are saying that the Arkangel is a created being then you are on the wrong track.


I have a feeling this is going to get really good.

Are you going to stand here and make a claim that the "Arkangel" wasn't created?

You must provide scripture to support such as claim. I'll wait for your response before I counter with actual scripture.

Vic Hays
02-11-2012, 10:31
OK, I didn't understand that you were saying that Satan had fallen prior to the creation of man. And, of course, you are using John 8:44 for support of that position? Is it possible that in John 8:44 when it since "from the beginning" that it meant from the time that he told the lie to Eve? Rather than from the beginning meaning prior to the creation of man?

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Lucifer was fallen from the time his pride got to him. he began to question God's motives. he began to question why God should have glory and honor. The cross answered the question. Jesus could have used His power to come down off the cross, but that would have meant selfish motives. Jesus motive in coming was to save whoever was willing to be saved from sin, not to save himself.

God's motives were revealed to be good and in line with His principles of Love, Truth and individual freedom.

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

Vic Hays
02-11-2012, 10:38
I have a feeling this is going to get really good.

Are you going to stand here and make a claim that the "Arkangel" wasn't created?

You must provide scripture to support such as claim. I'll wait for your response before I counter with actual scripture.

I have scriptural evidence if you are not in denial of the Bible.

I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What voice does the Lord have?
The Lord has the voice of the archangel. Jesus is the one in cammand.

lomfs24
02-11-2012, 11:02
Lucifer was fallen from the time his pride got to him. he began to question God's motives. he began to question why God should have glory and honor. The cross answered the question. Jesus could have used His power to come down off the cross, but that would have meant selfish motives. Jesus motive in coming was to save whoever was willing to be saved from sin, not to save himself.

God's motives were revealed to be good and in line with His principles of Love, Truth and individual freedom.

Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
OK, still with you. Now bring this all around to why God made man in his image, please.

Blast
02-11-2012, 11:30
I don't believe man's physical form was created in the image of God.
The human form is a functional form for a physical existance.
God is spirit. Why would an omnipotant being need arms, legs, hands, eyes. ears, etc.?
I believe in God's image refers to the soul/spirit of man.

steveksux
02-11-2012, 14:13
In my own opinion, God is made up of three divine entities (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). We humans are also made up of three components (flesh, soul, and spirit).

So the soul is different than the spirit? Don't think I've ever heard that one before...

Randy

fgutie35
02-11-2012, 19:03
So the soul is different than the spirit? Don't think I've ever heard that one before...

Randy

Think of it this way: when alive, we have a brain (main CPU) that controls the vessel (body) the brain resides in. That vessel is used by the brain to take him places. Now when dead, the Soul becomes that "Brain" or CPU. That has all the information to control the spirit (energy) which in turns give the soul the movility sort of speak, in the spiritual realm. As of now, we all have all the components already. Some of us are well aware of the soul and spirit and use it from time to time to create a relationship with our creator.

Vic Hays
02-11-2012, 19:37
OK, still with you. Now bring this all around to why God made man in his image, please.

God was not surprised by Lucifer's insinuations. Lucifer had full access to all of God's creatures and was trying to get them all to be suspicious of God and His motives.

If God had simply done away with Lucifer by using His power the suspicions about God's character and motives would have remained.

The use of force decreases love. Try telling someone to love you or else and see if that endears them to you. satan has never claimed to be more powerful than God, but God"s glory is His character and His holiness. satan wants the power, but not the character.

It was announced by God, "let us make man in Our image."

Lucifer thought that if he could get man to be selfish and devious and disobey God, it would show what motives this creature made in the image of God had. Certainly this would vindicate Lucifer who could then say, " see, this creature made in the image of God is no better than me. My way is the best way to be."

How did Lucifer carry out his plan? By telling Eve that God was only with holding the fruit because they could be gods by eating it.

This meant that God's motives were selfish because it insinuated that God wanted to lord it over Adam and Eve and avoid the competition of having other gods around.

God Himself became a man in the image of God and endured the cross for the salvation of man. Some men will have the image of God fully restored in them before the second coming.

This will prove to the universe that God's motives and principles are right.

FCoulter
02-11-2012, 20:23
I have scriptural evidence if you are not in denial of the Bible.

I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What voice does the Lord have?
The Lord has the voice of the archangel. Jesus is the one in cammand.

Picture this it's a boxing match, the lights brighten up a trump blows and the announcer in his deep voice says ladies and gentlemen it's Ali....

Question, is this ali and the announcer the same person?

Are ali and the trumpet being blown the same thing?

By your interpetion of the verse you quoted they would have to be the same.

I suggest you do more research and you will see the archangel is NOT Jesus.

Also more research will show that in the beginning who was there, and yes NO angels are mentioned yet.

If you like we can take the scripture and examine it but you must study with a open mind and not that of the sda/jw doctrine mindset.

Smacktard
02-11-2012, 20:41
This is a silly thread, everyone knows that God was created in the image of man.

...

SDGlock23
02-12-2012, 08:49
Jesus is the Son of God, but I think could very well be an Archangel if He wanted to, meaning He's more than an Archangel but can still fill the role of one. Angel after all simply means messenger, and Jesus was certainly that.

For what it's worth, Jerry Lee's fantastic book "Seven Thunders Speak: Manifest Chronicles Before Genesis" (http://peacemanifestministries.com/) makes the claim that the Cherubims are under the charge of Gabriel, Seraphims under Micheal and us fallen Ophannim angels (wheels, that were given the option of entering into fleshly bodies due to our rebellion, though not just the Ophannims rebelled) were later put under the control of Jesus (initially Lucifer), which is yet another reason why Jesus came to Earth and took on human form to be the once-and-for-all Sacrifice so that we could go back and inherit what we lost (as well as inherit what those who fell and chose not to enter the bodies of man, eternally abandoned. See Ps 82, Jhn 10:34). This is also why Satan and his legions seek to destroy humanity, because they know that we stand to inherit what they willfully abandoned but will never get, since they're eternally damned.

I like this quote, it's on Jerry's website:

"
Stranded - Suppose, that you are not of this planet

http://peacemanifestministries.com/images/pic2-stranded.jpgsuppose, that as a result of a great space war (Rev 12:7) your ancestors were cast down to this planet called Earth to be imprisoned here. (Rev 12:1-4)
Suppose, that now, since you live in “the land of forgetfulness” you have lost your memory and remember nothing about your true ancestral origin. (Ps 88:12)
Yet suppose, in a kind of deja vu you on occasion feel a deep drawing for a somewhere toward the stars…(Mal 3:16)
Suppose, you are stranded here and that is why Earthlians are seeking the ways and the means for traveling beyond Earth into unknown space. (Isa 51:16)
Suppose, that you existed prior to the genesis of this Earth…….. (Rom 8:29-30) as part of a host of entities called Ophannims. (Ezek 10:13 wheels=Hebrew for Ophannim)"

NMG26
02-12-2012, 08:57
Angel after all simply means messenger, and Jesus was certainly that.



Was?

I always find it interesting that people talk of Jesus in the past tense.

Jesus is alive!............according to "it is a relationship, and not a religion".

What would Jesus do?

What is Jesus doing!

Japle
02-12-2012, 10:24
What would Jesus do?

What is Jesus doing!

Nothing obvious.

NMG26
02-12-2012, 10:30
Nothing obvious.

Japle I keep telling you, you have have faith in order to see.

You have quite an interest in faith issues. I guess because it is perplexing to you.

ColdSteelNail
02-12-2012, 10:48
I don't know about you guys, but I evolved from monkeys.

NMG26
02-12-2012, 10:51
I don't know about you guys, but I evolved from monkeys.


Thank God!








:)

Vic Hays
02-12-2012, 14:34
Picture this it's a boxing match, the lights brighten up a trump blows and the announcer in his deep voice says ladies and gentlemen it's Ali....

Question, is this ali and the announcer the same person?

Are ali and the trumpet being blown the same thing?

By your interpetion of the verse you quoted they would have to be the same.

I suggest you do more research and you will see the archangel is NOT Jesus.

Also more research will show that in the beginning who was there, and yes NO angels are mentioned yet.

If you like we can take the scripture and examine it but you must study with a open mind and not that of the sda/jw doctrine mindset.

I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I am sorry that you are in denial about Jesus shouting with the voice of the Archangel. I figured as much, but I did give you the Biblical evidence you asked for. I don't understand how you could get that Jesus is shouting with someone else voice.

There are other scriptures, but I doubt seriously that you would look at them objectively.
Show me a scripture to back up your assertion. There are zero that say the Archangel is created. That view is strictly your opinion and assertion. Archangel means the ruler over the angels. An Arch goes over right? Jesus rules over the angels and He is their leader in battle.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Anyway, this thread is about man being created in the image of God.

Altaris
02-12-2012, 16:14
I don't know about you guys, but I evolved from monkeys.

Maybe god evolves too. Did you ever think about that? :tongueout:
Maybe he started as a single celled organism, so he created them on earth. Then when he evolved into a multi-cellular creature, he also made the ones on earth evolve. Fast forward to god as a monkey, and what do you know, monkeys are on earth. As he evolved into a human, we also came to be, and evolved in his image. Whenever god decides to evolve again, he will design us to evolve with him as well. :supergrin:

Altaris
02-12-2012, 16:18
If I was an all knowing, all powerful, perfect God creating a being in my image, it wouldn't have any flaws. It would be perfect.

Man is flawed. So what does that say?


If you haven't seen it, you should like this one mr. flawed man....

Neil deGrasse Tyson - Stupid Design (Closed Captioned) - YouTube

FCoulter
02-12-2012, 16:42
I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

I am sorry that you are in denial about Jesus shouting with the voice of the Archangel. I figured as much, but I did give you the Biblical evidence you asked for. I don't understand how you could get that Jesus is shouting with someone else voice.

There are other scriptures, but I doubt seriously that you would look at them objectively.
Show me a scripture to back up your assertion. There are zero that say the Archangel is created. That view is strictly your opinion and assertion. Archangel means the ruler over the angels. An Arch goes over right? Jesus rules over the angels and He is their leader in battle.

Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Anyway, this thread is about man being created in the image of God.


Scripture you want scripture you shall receive.

The Bible is clear in the beginning whom was here, notice angels are NOT mentioned yet.

John 1:<sup>1</sup>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
<sup id="en-KJV-26047" class="versenum">2</sup>The same was in the beginning with God.

More scripture to consider.Rememember Michael is called an archangel which still makes him an angel.

Hebrews 1: <sup id="en-KJV-29968" class="versenum">4</sup>Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

<sup>5</sup>For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

<sup>6</sup>And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

<sup>10</sup>And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

I have never seen where an angel laid the foundation of the earth.

An incident between Satan the devil and Michael answers this question "Are Michael and Jesus the same person" Notice: “Likewise also these filthy dreamers [wicked men] defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities [those in authority]. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil…about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord [Christ] rebuke you” (Jude 8-9). He could not have been referring to himself in this way!

Vic, I fear you really need to get away from adventist teaching on this and actually read what scripture says. To refer to an angel as God is a horrible thing to do.

Now I have shown you far more verses than you on this topic do you have anything else to build this false teaching on?

May I also ask why you only highlighted part of this verse and made it bold but left an important part unhighlighted?

"I Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

It seems you pick and choose and cut up verses to try and fit a false teaching into it. To be fair you have to have highlighted "and with the trump of God" as well. If you had done that though it would have made your claims seem foolish because you would be saying JESUS is also the trump of God.

Japle
02-12-2012, 18:42
Posted by NMG26:
Japle I keep telling you, you have have faith in order to see.

You have quite an interest in faith issues. I guess because it is perplexing to you.

I would have to have faith in order to accept unproven and (to me) obviously mythical stories as true.

I do have quite an interest in faith issues. It's endlessly facinating.

It's perplexing to me how anyone can buy into any religion. All religions are based on blind faith, "blind" being the key word.

Vic Hays
02-12-2012, 19:14
Vic, I fear you really need to get away from adventist teaching on this and actually read what scripture says. To refer to an angel as God is a horrible thing to do.



What does the Bible say about judging? You will be judged as you judge, is that correct? You are making false accusations about me. You cannot provide a single quote where I have referred to God as an angel.

You refuse to see the difference between the angels and the leader of the angels. All you have provided is evidence only of your opinion. You are welcome to it, but it is the Truth that sets us free.

God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty. The more you reflect these the more you will reflect the image of God and represent Him correctly. This is God's will for our lives. This is what heaven is waiting for, the character of Christ to be seen in man.

II Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

NMG26
02-12-2012, 20:22
I would have to have faith in order to accept unproven and (to me) obviously mythical stories as true.

I do have quite an interest in faith issues. It's endlessly facinating.

It's perplexing to me how anyone can buy into any religion. All religions are based on blind faith, "blind" being the key word.

Not everything about a religion is blind faith.

I don't have a particular religion. I look for what spiritually works in all religions.

Faith in God is not blind. Faith in God is a decision. I can not prove that there is a God, and I can not prove that there is not a God. When I decide to believe in God, then I find the results of that faith.

I have a relationship with God by faith. My faith is profitable to me in many ways. I believe that God is on my side, no matter what is happening. Faith helps one to overcome, in challenging circumstances. Did God really help? Don't know. The faith is where the power is. It is a logical faith.

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."-Albert Einstein

http://www.ijourney.org/?tid=255







:)

lomfs24
02-12-2012, 20:23
God was not surprised by Lucifer's insinuations. Lucifer had full access to all of God's creatures and was trying to get them all to be suspicious of God and His motives.
If God had simply done away with Lucifer by using His power the suspicions about God's character and motives would have remained. God is all knowing, right? So why did he create Lucifer in the first place? Did he knowingly create him so that he would have several millenniums of entertainment?

The use of force decreases love. Try telling someone to love you or else and see if that endears them to you. satan has never claimed to be more powerful than God, but God"s glory is His character and His holiness. satan wants the power, but not the character.
Could you explain this a little clearer for me? Specifically, where this is different from, say, God telling Adam, "See that tree over there? Yeah, that one. Don't eat from it or I will kill you."

Or how it's different from today when we are told that if we don't follow the straight and narrow that we will spend all eternity in hell.

Both kinda sound a lot like "Love me or else..."

It was announced by God, "let us make man in Our image."

Lucifer thought that if he could get man to be selfish and devious and disobey God, it would show what motives this creature made in the image of God had. Certainly this would vindicate Lucifer who could then say, " see, this creature made in the image of God is no better than me. My way is the best way to be."

How did Lucifer carry out his plan? By telling Eve that God was only with holding the fruit because they could be gods by eating it.

As long as we are on the topic here. This has always been pointed to as Satan's big lie. But I am hard pressed to see where Satan lied here. For a couple different reasons. Up until this point, God never told Adam and Eve that they would live forever. But God did tell Adan that "for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen 2:17) Satan comes along and tell Eve, "you won't die." Now, since God hadn't told them they would live for ever, and he had told them that if they eat from the tree they would die that day, it would be more logical to conclude that what the serpent was really saying is that they wouldn't die that day. And they didn't.
Next, the serpent didn't say that they would be god's he said they would be "like God, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:5) And they did, they immediately recognized that they were naked.
Which bring up another important point. Lots of folks go around talking about free will and how horrible it would be for God to remove free will. Wasn't that really what Adam and Eve had? They were to do what God told them to do, an they were unable to recognize good from bad. God could have told them to do anything and they would have done it because they couldn't tell right from wrong. The ONLY choice they had, was to eat or not to eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

As an aside, the only place that it was mentioned that Adam and Eve could have lived forever was if they made it back into the garden after they were cast out and eaten from the tree of life. This place was loaded with special trees. That's why God placed cherubim at the entrance with a flaming magic sword that spun every direction.

This meant that God's motives were selfish because it insinuated that God wanted to lord it over Adam and Eve and avoid the competition of having other gods around.
But he did want to lord it over Adam and Eve and not have any other Gods around. I think that was one of the 10 commandments, wasn't it?

God Himself became a man in the image of God and endured the cross for the salvation of man. Some men will have the image of God fully restored in them before the second coming.
So is this something that we have to strive for an acheive? Or will God just pick a few? Is it something we can attain or something that God gives. Because if it is something that we can recognize we need, strive for and attain it will mean something in this world class debate. Otherwise, if God just gives it to some Satan could just say, "Well, they were given that, it's not what they would have normally done."
This will prove to the universe that God's motives and principles are right.
There are just too many holes to be taken seriously.

lomfs24
02-12-2012, 20:25
Picture this it's a boxing match, the lights brighten up a trump blows and the announcer in his deep voice says ladies and gentlemen it's Ali....

Question, is this ali and the announcer the same person?

Are ali and the trumpet being blown the same thing?


There were some game shows in the '80's and early '90's where the announcer and the host were the same person. Does that count?

Vic Hays
02-12-2012, 21:33
So is this something that we have to strive for an acheive? Or will God just pick a few? Is it something we can attain or something that God gives. Because if it is something that we can recognize we need, strive for and attain it will mean something in this world class debate. Otherwise, if God just gives it to some Satan could just say, "Well, they were given that, it's not what they would have normally done."
There are just too many holes to be taken seriously.

How many can achieve the image of God?

Everyone who is willing to believe which is few even though it has been provided as a free gift:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

How is the restoration of the image of God restored in man? By the Spirit of the Lord.

II Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Do you want to be like Jesus?

NMG26
02-12-2012, 21:47
How many can achieve the image of God?
Do you want to be like Jesus?

Hard to resist Vic.

1 Cor 6:17 "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit."

Even when I was a Bible believer I knew that I was "joined unto the Lord".

Just as Jesus said "I and the Father are one", so every man can say the same, when they know that they are joined to God........inseparable.

It is a faith issue. The faith is where the power is. The only thing that separates man from God is a lack of faith. There is nothing that separates God from man. God is always with us. Oh yeah......that is omnipresence.

Japle
02-13-2012, 07:03
Posted by NMG26:
Faith in God is not blind. Faith in God is a decision. I can not prove that there is a God, and I can not prove that there is not a God. When I decide to believe in God, then I find the results of that faith.
The "results" you find are the product of a personal decision to accept the existence of a god that you have no way of verifying. You can't prove he exists. Your faith is based on faith. That's about as "blind" as you can get.

I have a relationship with God by faith. My faith is profitable to me in many ways. I believe that God is on my side, no matter what is happening. Faith helps one to overcome, in challenging circumstances. Did God really help? Don't know. The faith is where the power is. It is a logical faith.
Power? You don't know if your god helped you and that's power?

Clearly, we're not going to agree on this. What you see as logic, I see as self deception. If it makes you happy, I wish you luck.

FCoulter
02-13-2012, 08:28
What does the Bible say about judging? You will be judged as you judge, is that correct? You are making false accusations about me. You cannot provide a single quote where I have referred to God as an angel.

You refuse to see the difference between the angels and the leader of the angels. All you have provided is evidence only of your opinion. You are welcome to it, but it is the Truth that sets us free.

God's principles are Love, Truth, and individual liberty. The more you reflect these the more you will reflect the image of God and represent Him correctly. This is God's will for our lives. This is what heaven is waiting for, the character of Christ to be seen in man.

II Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.


I am sorry Vic I misunderstood you. I thought you believed Jesus was God and was the son of God. So when you made a claim Michael and Jesus were the same I assumed you were saying Michael was God also.

Also why do you think there is only 1 archangel?

and why do you assume the voice of the archangel that Jesus returns with is Michael? If it were Michaels voice the Bible surely would have said so.

Vic Hays
02-13-2012, 12:35
I am sorry Vic I misunderstood you. I thought you believed Jesus was God and was the son of God. So when you made a claim Michael and Jesus were the same I assumed you were saying Michael was God also.

Also why do you think there is only 1 archangel?

and why do you assume the voice of the archangel that Jesus returns with is Michael? If it were Michaels voice the Bible surely would have said so.

It is good for Christians to dialogue. Thank you for asking the questions rather than just writing me off as a heretic.

We Seventh-day Adventists believe in the Protestant tradition that the Bible is the rule (standard) of faith and practice.

Personally I did not come by my beliefs by being taught a bunch of doctrines without Bible support. I was not even taught about the archangel. I have learned from my own study of the Bible. This is not widely taught in the Seventh-day Adventist Church probably because it does cause such controversy and it doesn't seem to be a salvation doctrine that we need to know all the names of Jesus.

1. To answer your questions, I believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God. Further I believe that Jesus came to reveal to us the character of God which is also known as the image of God. Jesus ia also the chief or main messenger from the Father. Hebrews 1:1-3 supports this.

2. Jesus is the leader of the angels. Revelation 19 supports this.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw the heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon called Faithful and True; and in righteous he doth judge and make war.
19:12 And his eyes [are] a flame of fire, and upon his head [are] many diadems; and he hath a name written which no one knoweth but he himself.
19:13 And he [is] arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies which are in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white [and] pure.
19:15 And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.

3. Unfallen angels do not desire or accept our worship. Revelation 19:10 supports this.

Revelation 19:10 And I fell down before his feet to worship him. And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

4. The warrior leader of the angels does accept worship and the ground is holy because He is Holy. This is the same as the time when Moses stood before God at the burning bush. This leads to the understanding that the leader of the angels is God. This is supported by Judges

Judges 5:13 And it came to pass when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went to him, and said to him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?
5:14 And he said, No; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and worshiped, and said to him, What saith my lord to his servant? 5:15 And the captain of the LORDíS host said to Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot, for the place on which thou standest is holy: and Joshua did so.

Thessalonians says that Jesus shouts with the voice if the Archangel. Jesus has all power in heaven and earth. Why would He need someone else to shout for Him? Matthew 28 supports this.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

5. Why do you think the angels need more than 1 leader or archangel? There is no Biblical proof that more than 1 exist. In fact the name is revealed in a couple of places. Jesus has the voice of the archangel in Thessalonians and He will shout at the Resurrection. The Bible backs this up in the book of Daniel.

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

6. Who do you think has been fighting satan? The Father is not fighting satan. The Son is fighting satan and the Son cast satan out of heaven where satan has continued his propaganda campaign to malign the character of God and make people suspicious of God's motives. Who do the angels belong to? Revelation points this out.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

lomfs24
02-13-2012, 13:09
How many can achieve the image of God?
I thought we were all made in the image of God?

Everyone who is willing to believe which is few even though it has been provided as a free gift:
So is this image of God necessary to be saved?

How is the restoration of the image of God restored in man? By the Spirit of the Lord.

II Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
So we are restored to what we were made in?

Do you want to be like Jesus? Yeah, I guess he was an alright guy.
You don't really have to answer any of those questions Vic. I know what you are saying. It's just that I don't really buy it. And no matter what I say, you won't change your mind, and no matter what you say, I won't change my mind. At least not on this subject.

This is the one question that I did really want you to answer. I feel it's pretty important to the whole free will issue. You said that force decreases love and I asked... Could you explain this a little clearer for me? Specifically, where this is different from, say, God telling Adam, "See that tree over there? Yeah, that one. Don't eat from it or I will kill you."

Or how it's different from today when we are told that if we don't follow the straight and narrow that we will spend all eternity in hell.

Both kinda sound a lot like "Love me or else..."

lomfs24
02-13-2012, 13:21
1. To answer your questions, I believe that Jesus is God and the Son of God. Further I believe that Jesus came to reveal to us the character of God which is also known as the image of God. Jesus ia also the chief or main messenger from the Father. Hebrews 1:1-3 supports this.

Vic, could you explain this a little more to me. I have, of course, not been taught this and it was always confusing to me.

Jesus came to reveal the character of God, yeah, got that. John 14:9 says "he who has seen me has seen the Father"(paraphrased but I think it's pretty close). I don't think that Jesus was saying he was the Father but it was as good as seeing the Father if you saw him. Plus no one can see nor has seen the Father. John (John 1:18 and Exodus 33:20)

Next, I understand were you come up with the idea that Jesus is the messenger from God. Got that.

Up until now, there seems to be two different people, a Father and a Son. The Son came to earth and was/is his messenger. And the other is the father.

So where do we come up with the idea that Jesus is God?

Vic Hays
02-13-2012, 14:33
Vic, could you explain this a little more to me. I have, of course, not been taught this and it was always confusing to me.

Jesus came to reveal the character of God, yeah, got that. John 14:9 says "he who has seen me has seen the Father"(paraphrased but I think it's pretty close). I don't think that Jesus was saying he was the Father but it was as good as seeing the Father if you saw him. Plus no one can see nor has seen the Father. John (John 1:18 and Exodus 33:20)

Next, I understand were you come up with the idea that Jesus is the messenger from God. Got that.

Up until now, there seems to be two different people, a Father and a Son. The Son came to earth and was/is his messenger. And the other is the father.

So where do we come up with the idea that Jesus is God?

I know how hard the Jehovah's Witnesses stress the point that Jesus is God's first creation, however, the evidence from the Bible says that The Father and the Son have always been eternal. I don't believe that God needs to fit within my understanding. I just believe what the Bible reveals about God.

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Could another created being die for my sins in my place? No.

NMG26
02-13-2012, 20:11
The "results" you find are the product of a personal decision to accept the existence of a god that you have no way of verifying. You can't prove he exists. Your faith is based on faith. That's about as "blind" as you can get.


It is faith based on experience. I believed and I sought and found God. I can not deny my experience. I was trying to explain that the faith comes before the experience. Faith comes by hearing.........experience comes by believing. Experience reinforces faith, that grows stronger and stronger with more and more experience.


Did God really help? Don't know. The faith is where the power is.


Power? You don't know if your god helped you and that's power?


My faith in God helped.

Faith works.

You said that you are fascinated with faith issues. How so? What is it about faith issues that fascinates you?

Japle
02-14-2012, 15:51
Posted by NMG26:
You said that you are fascinated with faith issues. How so? What is it about faith issues that fascinates you?

Your last post is an excellent example. Statements like, ďFaith comes by hearing.........experience comes by believingĒ and ďExperience reinforces faith, that grows stronger and stronger with more and more experienceĒ strike me as some kind of new-age, pseudo-spiritual, feel-good blah-blah-blah thatís so common in religious discussions.

Thereís a very basic difference between people who take a skeptical approach to life and those who are content to accept extraordinary claims without a shred of objective evidence. Thereís a gulf between these two groups thatís very deep. We can talk across the gulf, but itís rare for anyone to cross over.

Iím fascinated by those on the other side. Iím fascinated by their ability to buy into belief systems that are fatally flawed, ridiculously contradictory and so at odds with the real world. Iím fascinated by their conviction that, not only are they absolutely right, but everyone who doesnít agree with them is doomed to eternal punishment.

Itís interesting. Donít you think so?

lomfs24
02-14-2012, 16:21
It’s interesting. Don’t you think so?

I think it's interesting too. Mainly because I am one of those who has crossed that gulf. I look back at my time as a person of faith and have to ask myself now, "What was I thinking?"

I once heard a college professor at the beginning of a class, took white board that spanned the entire front of the class and he put a small dot on it, He said "this is what you know". Then he placed a small circle around the dot and said "This is what you don't know." The he went on to say that the rest of the vast white board represents what you don't know you don't know. Thinking about that, I marvel at myself, for so concretely knowing all there was to know when I was a person of faith. It's just not so.

Vic Hays
02-15-2012, 19:33
I think it's interesting too. Mainly because I am one of those who has crossed that gulf. I look back at my time as a person of faith and have to ask myself now, "What was I thinking?"

I once heard a college professor at the beginning of a class, took white board that spanned the entire front of the class and he put a small dot on it, He said "this is what you know". Then he placed a small circle around the dot and said "This is what you don't know." The he went on to say that the rest of the vast white board represents what you don't know you don't know. Thinking about that, I marvel at myself, for so concretely knowing all there was to know when I was a person of faith. It's just not so.

I think it is interesting that as a religious person you felt that you were a person of faith when Jehovah Witnesses don't even believe in the Born Again experience. Perhaps you believed their line, but I hardly think that is faith in God.

The JW's to me tend to try to rationalize everything to the extent that there is faith in the organization rather than God.

muscogee
02-15-2012, 19:59
Maybe god evolves too. Did you ever think about that? :tongueout:
Maybe he started as a single celled organism, so he created them on earth. Then when he evolved into a multi-cellular creature, he also made the ones on earth evolve. Fast forward to god as a monkey, and what do you know, monkeys are on earth. As he evolved into a human, we also came to be, and evolved in his image. Whenever god decides to evolve again, he will design us to evolve with him as well. :supergrin:

God is a Thetan.

lomfs24
02-15-2012, 21:43
I think it is interesting that as a religious person you felt that you were a person of faith when Jehovah Witnesses don't even believe in the Born Again experience. Perhaps you believed their line, but I hardly think that is faith in God.

The JW's to me tend to try to rationalize everything to the extent that there is faith in the organization rather than God.

I would disagree with you here but I suppose that is for a different thread.

Geko45
02-15-2012, 21:57
God is a Thetan.

Buwahahaha! :supergrin:

NMG26
02-15-2012, 22:00
Your last post is an excellent example. Statements like, “Faith comes by hearing.........experience comes by believing” and “Experience reinforces faith, that grows stronger and stronger with more and more experience” strike me as some kind of new-age, pseudo-spiritual, feel-good blah-blah-blah that’s so common in religious discussions.

Pseudo-spiritual? Most of that comes from the Bible. My influence is Christin. I found spirituality in Christianity. When I left Christianity I still had need for spirituality.
blah-blah-blah, what is wrong with feeling good?
Mine has always been a spirituality of feeling.


It’s interesting. Don’t you think so?

Yup. I find those that have no spirituality interesting. I find that the atheists often have much better arguments then the believers.

For me it is less about being right, and more about seeing where my faith has faults. I am willing to change if I can find fault with what I am standing on. That is how I was able to grow out of the top of Christianity.







:)

steveksux
02-16-2012, 22:43
Because man created God. If you're going to create a religion, you're going to make yourself the apple of his eye. Man was created to have dominion over all of creation. Earth was the center of the solar system, even the universe. What a coincidence!

When dolphins create a religion, I think you'll find that they'll suggest that dolphins were created in the image of God.

Randy