"PTB" Project (Public Transportation Bag) [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Bolster
02-11-2012, 19:04
Call me crazy, but I've started riding public transportation across town in Los Angeles. I can read for an hour, instead of drive, and I don't have to pay parking. Costs all of $3. The downside is...well...you can imagine what the downside is.

So I've started assembling a PTB, a "Public Transport Bag" the goal of which is to contain functional gear that is SO INEXPENSIVE that I feel only minor pangs of regret if I have to give it up to a thief, or if I forget it on the bus.

So far I'm getting it together more cheaply than expected, but hit a bump; the cheapest flashlight I own is a $45 Fenix 1AA. So just ordered a highly recommended (for a cheap light) Rominson RC-G2 (http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-232/Romisen-RC-dsh-G2-II-NW/Detail). In neutral tint, believe it or not, for <$20. So far that is my most expensive item in the bag, but felt a decent flashlight was worth it as the return trip's at night.

The other expensive item (so far) is a pint size Nalgene bottle at $9, but I thought the wide top and reusability was worth it.

This project is actually somewhat entertaining. I'm surprised I'm getting it stocked for so little money. Shopping for an unattractive but functional bookbag as we speak. Found a truly unattractive but sturdy and functional Hurley for $30 but still looking. I am not going to go bargain basement for the bag because it'll need to do some serious duty.

Any suggestions, comments, cheers or jeers on this project, please pass them along...

quake
02-11-2012, 20:12
For a small, cheap flashlight, I've been somewhat impressed with Lighthound's store-brand single-cell cr123 light. We bought them for all of our employees for christmas a year or two ago; some of them are still running and some are not. The ones that failed all have been due to the o-ring giving out, so the head spins too free and they turn on in the pocket.

http://www.lighthound.com/Lighthound-CR-1-Cree-Q4-LED-1x123-or-1xRCR123-twist-on-flashlight_p_3511.html

http://www.lighthound.com/assets/images/lhcr1_thumbnail.jpg

It'll never replace the e-15 on my keyring, but at $14.99 it's better than it should be imo.

They have quite a few other inexpensive options as well. www.lighthound.com

IV Troop
02-11-2012, 20:45
For a bag I would be looking at a thrift store for a used book bag or backpack. You can find some very good quality daypacks for very little money usually within just a few visits.

wiskeyVI
02-12-2012, 10:31
I picked up a couple of cheap LED flashlights at the local auto parts chain. They are usually sitting at the check out with a "2 for $5" sign on them.
Great little lights for the price!.

jwhite75
02-12-2012, 10:35
For stuff including a possibe bag....

www.countycomm.com (http://www.countycomm.com)

I think they are even in Cali so you would get it pretty quickly.

mac66
02-12-2012, 11:39
PTB, interesting concept. I like the putty knife idea. How about a wrench for a striking tool?

I have switched from Nalgene type bottles to collapsible water bottles. They are light, fold up so they don't take any space and you can carry a number of them and fill and/or freeze them as needed. Also cheap...

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/portable-folding-anti-bottle-water-bottle-with-carabiner-clip-random-color-3-pack-108599

BTW, these are also useful for smuggling booze into events, cruise ships etc. I like the cartoon character ones as they are so low key as to be ignored.

Also, Dealextreme has lots of interesting cheap gadgets and stuff. I have several of their Cree flashlights and they work as well as the expensive namebrand stuff. The small led key chain lights are a bargin. www.dealextreme.com

My GHB is an old bookbag one of my kids used in high school. I figured if it is tough enough to survive a teenager with 40 lbs of text books for 3 years it will survive sitting in my truck full of stuff.

Lone Kimono
02-12-2012, 12:48
I'm shocked you wouldn't get in trouble for carrying around even a putty knife in Cali.

Bolster
02-12-2012, 13:11
I'm shocked you wouldn't get in trouble for carrying around even a putty knife in Cali.

If you used it to hurt someone, you bet you would be in trouble; as you would with a pipe clamp, a cane, a hammer, or a rolled up magazine. But the police can't stop people from carrying all tools.

Collapsible water bottle...genius...hadn't thought of that.

G29Reload
02-12-2012, 15:53
Cheers for sure. Something all of us can learn from. Having throw-down quality stuff that still works and is effective but won't break your heart if stolen is a good concept. I do tend to keep better stuff at home for hunker-down than I leave in the car. If I were forced to live in an urban s#$%hole like LA, I would be on this concept like a pro.

Pictures of the final package would be great.

arclight610
02-12-2012, 16:40
If you used it to hurt someone, you bet you would be in trouble; as you would with a pipe clamp, a cane, a hammer, or a rolled up magazine. But the police can't stop people from carrying all tools. It could hardly be classified as a "stabbing implement" or a "dirk" with its wide, flat tip. I carry my putty knife with a foam brush, and both see legitimate construction work in houses. The sharpened side cuts caulk from baseboard in a zip.

Collapsible water bottle...genius...hadn't thought of that.

Sir, do you have a permit to carry a concealed putty knife?

308endurdebate
02-12-2012, 17:10
If you used it to hurt someone, you bet you would be in trouble; as you would with a pipe clamp, a cane, a hammer, or a rolled up magazine. But the police can't stop people from carrying all tools. It could hardly be classified as a "stabbing implement" or a "dirk" with its wide, flat tip. I carry my putty knife with a foam brush, and both see legitimate construction work in houses. The sharpened side cuts caulk from baseboard in a zip.

Collapsible water bottle...genius...hadn't thought of that.

If you're going to carry the painter/construction thing a bit further, you can carry can/bottle of mineral spirits/rubbing alcohol for cleaning, etc. Match up with a bottle and cotton cloth and you get something more sinister... Of course, it isn't super lightweight to carry, but if the zombies are coming, that cocktail might save you :supergrin:

For more useful - since you said your return trip is at night, I carry two lights - one is my surefire (cr123), the other is lightweight headlamp. As long as you check your battery regularly, your light should be fine. The CR123 lithiums take the guess work out of it. Useful to temporarily blind someone. The headlamp allows you to keep both hands free and land direct the light as well.

Lone Kimono
02-12-2012, 18:05
If you used it to hurt someone, you bet you would be in trouble; as you would with a pipe clamp, a cane, a hammer, or a rolled up magazine. But the police can't stop people from carrying all tools. It could hardly be classified as a "stabbing implement" or a "dirk" with its wide, flat tip. I carry my putty knife with a foam brush, and both see legitimate construction work in houses. The sharpened side cuts caulk from baseboard in a zip.

Collapsible water bottle...genius...hadn't thought of that.

I'm all for it and think it's a great idea. It's a shame you live in a state where they would rather you be the victim than defend yourself.

cs133atom
02-12-2012, 18:15
$20 I bought one to check it out and have purchased 5 since. Great bag for the money. Especially for a throw away. Check it out.

Cheers!

LA Police GEAR (http://www.lapolicegear.com/tabaoutbag.html)

jdavionic
02-12-2012, 19:08
Not sure I'd want to ride public transit in LA with LAPG stuff. I think I'd rather find an inconspicuous backpack

jdavionic
02-12-2012, 19:40
I don't ride public transit, but I have one of those SwissGear backpacks for work. I've taken it on trips several times as the only piece of luggage, along with my BOB or GHB (depending upon the trip). Point being though, I've found that SwissGear bag is great. It's rugid, and has many pockets that are great for storing various items. And it doesn't look like a bag that would be used for survival stuff. Just looks like a work backpack.

treeline
02-13-2012, 14:21
One question: why buy a putty scraper that needs work when you could buy a hacking knife that is already sharp?
Here's an example of the style I'm referring to. Cheaper models are available:
http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/2129/home-improvement

If you want a regular knife, the Mora range starts at about $8. Last year a store here was selling the 640 Tradesman/Viking for £2.50 (about $4) each and even one as cheap as that is sharp, durable and comfortable. The Hultafors knives are also good, cheap beaters that can be sharpened for woodwork, but I'm not sure if they're widely available in the US.

Bolster
02-13-2012, 16:43
One question: why buy a putty scraper that needs work when you could buy a hacking knife that is already sharp?

It is pretty amazing how reasonably a good knife can be had.

G23c
02-13-2012, 17:16
this is a great idea. let us know how much in final when fully stocked.

WilyCoyote
02-13-2012, 18:20
Full transit system map and extra fares..id throw a wrecking bar in there too so u can self extricate in case of a wreck or power outage

M1A Shooter
02-13-2012, 18:22
i got a couple of the LAPG bailout bags awhile back when they were free with a pants purchase or something of that nature. its a decent bag but not really what i would see as inconspicuous on a bus.

i use a Outdoor Products backpack from wal-mart for school use. its a cheap bag that everyone knows came from WM but i carry 3 or 4 large text books with all the crap that is required for college. i also throw it around my truck with all my tools and such for my day job and im not really nice to it, but not really nasty to it either. that sai, it has held up great and shows no sign of abuse.

bdcochran
02-14-2012, 00:37
Bolster - go over to Costco. They have 3 200 lumen flashlights using 3 aaa batteries for under $20. Bought a pack today.

You are now subject to search by TSA. If you don't believe me, go downlown to the Central railroad station and Greyhound.

You take a screwdriver. Just like the people on Spring Street. You take a throwdown wallet, some $1 bills and quarters. You can pin money in an envelope in a pocket.

Take a larger water container.

Take a bandana and baseball cap. A cheap Chinese knockoff of a leatherman tool.

Give Tony Villar the finger as you go past City Hall.

Bolster
02-14-2012, 01:04
Give Tony Villar the finger as you go past City Hall.

Every single time, bro. Thanks for the carry suggestions, they all make sense. Throwdown wallet a must. I will be publishing my loadout soon, just took it on a trial run this evening and patching some holes. Trying to keep it sub $100 with a decent flashlight and a good compliment of reasonable (but not good) quality gear. Much stocking of Chinee items I fear.

Syclone538
02-14-2012, 01:54
Utility knife.

I was going to say a maglite 2AA led or a streamlight microstream, but it looks like you found a durable light in that price range.

I think it will be easier to make suggestions after seeing a list of what you have.

reeser
02-14-2012, 02:54
Bolster - go over to Costco. They have 3 200 lumen flashlights using 3 aaa batteries for under $20. Bought a pack today.
.

I agree 100% these things are pretty nice lights for the price!!!

sebecman
02-14-2012, 08:15
Screw that I would just move. Sorry but I don't understand why anyone would live in LA.

Life is too short to have to carry a freaking "throwdown wallet".

pugman
02-14-2012, 09:17
I have carried one of these in my pocket for years

Amazon.com: Super Bright LED-Lamp Keychain Light: Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21YIglxcXlL.@@AMEPARAM@@21YIglxcXlL

Local stores sell them for $2-3. I have yet to have one fail me

Second thought...a flathead screwdriver. It can be used as a weapon, a small pry bar, the back end as a makeshift hammer and yes...a screwdriver. May even second as a window breaker on that bus.

A set of leather gloves.

Bolster
02-14-2012, 15:54
Leather gloves for...?

Regards the "throwdown wallet" idea, I think it's a good one and plan to implement it. It is also something I read about years ago, recommended by Massad Ayoob (http://massadayoobgroup.com/), he carries one! "Life's too short to die over a freaking $10."

So a couple requests for the list, here it is SO FAR, still a work in progress.

Pricing was difficult to determine...many things can be pulled from existing stock in an up-and-running household (a few matches here, some thread there, handcleaner from the refill jug, bags from the kitchen, the free fauxton a vendor sent...) so my prices are considerably lower than what you'd have to pay if you were to go get all new gear. If an item was sub 50 cents it got a $0.

Public Transport Bag
--------------------------------
Antiseptic $0 (in a straw tube)
Bag plastic trash $0
Bags ziplock $0
Band aids $0
Bandana $2
Battery 1AA $0
Bottle Nalg 16 oz $9
Compass $3
Cord $1
Crayon $0
Earplugs $0
Flashlight fauxton $0
Flashlight RC-G2 $20 (optional, I like lights, but may have to go, too expensive)
Floss $0
Food bar $5
Fork & spoon $0
Gloves nitrile $0
Gloves leather ?
Gum $1
Hat $3
Headphones $5 - these are for wearing, not for listening. They demotivate the panhandlers. Currently they plug into no listening device, as I want to be able to hear my surroundings.
Jacket/Anorak $? (currently using a "found" sports anorack, you pull the hood up and people don't attempt conversation. I noticed most passengers wear hoods up.)
Kleenex $1
Knife, putty $5
Lighter, bic $1
Hand sanitizer $1
Maps $0 - with all the bad areas of town mapped out. According to the LA times (http://projects.latimes.com/homicide/map/), avoid 17-to-22-year-old men "of two particular ethnicities" on Saturday and Sunday. Unfortunately, that's pretty much who rides public transportation. They prefer guns 10x over the next popular weapon (knives).
Mask, procedure $0 (like the dentist uses)
Matches $0 (in a straw tube)
Moleskin $0
Napkins $0
Newspaper $0 - throw it down onto the seat and sit on it. (Sat in a wet seat once, never again.)
Pad, sterile $0
Paper $0
Pen Sharpie $2
Pencil $0
Pepper spray $5
Pins safety $0
Poncho disposable $1
Radio AM/FM ? - worth the expense? What do you say?
Rubber bands $0
Ruler 3" $0
Soap $0 (detergent in a straw tube)
Socks, spare pair $2
Sticks popsicle (splint, whatever) $0
SAK $found
Sweater ? (I need to get a decent fleece vest or sweater for the bag)
Tape duct $0 (small segment wrapped around business card)
Tape medical $0
Thread & needle $0 (in a straw tube)
Thumb drive $8 (needed for work)
Tinder $0 (in a straw tube)
Tums $1
Wallet, throwdown ($10) Don't have one yet.
Watch ?
Wipes $0
Wrench adj. ?
Whistle (get)
Zip-ties $0

--------------
That's a little under $90 for the contents with the upscale flashlight, +$25 for the bag at a discounter. It adds up. I'd like to keep the contents sub $100, so the flashlight may have to go, knocking it back down to $70.

pugman
02-14-2012, 17:13
Leather gloves for...?

Anything and everything.

I thought you were asking about what could be a cheap urban GHB.

But in a urban environment I can think of a lot of possible uses during a SHTF situation.

Bolster
02-14-2012, 18:09
Yeah, I can see leather gloves being useful, just thought you had a specific application in mind. I will have to shop for an inexpensive pair, or swap out an old used pair.

Forgot to add weight of total: 6 lbs! I find that amazingly light, for all the gear represented.

The pack itself is a nondescript black-and-grey item; chose it due to nice functioning zippers and rubberized bottom. Wide but thinly padded arm straps.

Syclone538
02-14-2012, 22:37
I'd put in some imodium, excedrin migraine, advil, and mucinex.

You should be able to find a very small, light, and cheap fm radio. I see no downside to having one.

Whats a SAK?

Did I over look water purification on the list?

Syclone538
02-14-2012, 22:58
http://www.target.com/p/Jensen-AM-FM-Armband-Radio/-/A-11144564?reco=Rec|pdp|11144564|ClickCP|item_page.adjacency&lnk=Rec|pdp|ClickCP|item_page.adjacency

Size and weight is about right, just need to find one cheaper.

Bolster
02-15-2012, 00:31
Hi Syclone. I've been considering this one for $7:

Amazon.com: Coby CX70BLK Mini Pocket AM/FM Radio, Black: Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31C9%2BmaEn8L.@@AMEPARAM@@31C9%2BmaEn8L

or this one for $10 (advantage for me: AAs)

Amazon.com: Sony ICF-S10MK2 Pocket AM/FM Radio, Silver: Electronics@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0TDSW1JL.@@AMEPARAM@@51H0TDSW1JL

My thinking is that if bad stuff happens while in transit, hopefully I'd be able to tune into AM or FM to get news updates and an idea of how the event may play out.

I don't have any water purification on board, you suggest tablets? That reminds me, I should add a coffee filter or two.

SAK = Swiss Army Knife.

Meds, yes. Included but not listed. Thanks for the reminder. Esp. immodium, which when you need it, you really need it.

Syclone538
02-15-2012, 01:26
Hi Syclone. I've been considering this one for $7:
...
My thinking is that if bad stuff happens while in transit, hopefully I'd be able to tune into AM or FM to get news updates and an idea of how the event may play out.
...

Exactly what I was thinking too.

...
I don't have any water purification on board, you suggest tablets? That reminds me, I should add a coffee filter or two.
...

I honestly don't know enough about water purification to make a suggestion. Just figured water was way to heavy for the idea of the bag, and thought you should have something. After reading your thread on solar stills, I figured you were good to go here and just forgot to list it. I was wondering what it was that you had decided on. lol

...
SAK = Swiss Army Knife.
...

Is there a decent quality one that fits the budget? I mean, even though you found it, it still has value.

...
Meds, yes. Included but not listed. Thanks for the reminder. Esp. immodium, which when you need it, you really need it.

Thought that might be the case, or that you edc some so didn't need them in the bag.


If you were somewhere colder I'd say throw in a space blanket.

M1A Shooter
02-15-2012, 01:43
for the space it takes, id still add a space blanket. you can still get cold in the desert at night.

as far as water purification goes, i keep a few chlorine tabs i got at walmart in my edc. i prefer the chlorine taste to the iodine but either works in a pinch. the chlorine tastes like pool water and the iodine reminds me of the rubbery hot garden hose water. both are still better than nothing.

id also add a p38 can opener if the SAK doesnt have one. i keep one on my key chain and actually use it more than most would think. not daily but i know ive used it 3 times in the last month or so. opener at work was broke and went to a persons house for dinner who somehow didnt have a can opener. might be useful if you end up getting a can of soup or whatever from a gas station for lunch etc.

also, small notes that could be ignored but my thoughts, the napkins and kleenex are redundant. the popsicle sticks for splints are also unneeded. the largest thing you will splint with them is a finger and they can be easily splinted to the finger next to it with the medical tape.

i would also rethink the headphones. might help with panhandlers but in my mind would make you look less aware and an easier target.

Bolster
02-15-2012, 13:02
as far as water purification goes, i keep a few chlorine tabs i got at walmart in my edc. i prefer the chlorine taste to the iodine but either works in a pinch. the chlorine tastes like pool water and the iodine reminds me of the rubbery hot garden hose water. both are still better than nothing.

M1A can you explain a bit more...what are these chlorine tabs called, are they for drink water purification or for pools? Where found in Walmart, the sports section? What are they called, and is it easy to calculate the dose? Do you know if the chlorine tabs have a good shelf life? Interested, thanks.

Interesting point on the headphones, and I am suspicious a pulled-up hood has close to the same effect in saying "not interested in conversation."

M1A Shooter
02-15-2012, 21:05
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-20ct-PA-Chlorine-Dioxide-Water-Purification-Tablets/16611014

this is what i got back in the sporting good section. they come in individual tablets in foil packs. 20 to the pack. i put 10 of them in the little pouch on my USGI canteen pouch on my GHB. each tablet does 1L of water so i figure 1Qt is close enough :)

the only downside, iirc, was they recommend letting the tablets work for up to 4 hours. the polar pure i usually use is just half an hour iirc, but its iodine also.

i do also keep some calcium hypochlorite on hand, powdered bleach for pool chemicals, but its for large scale home treatment.

Bolster
02-15-2012, 21:37
Outstanding. Have been looking for an inexpensive iodine alternative. Thanks much.

Lone Kimono
02-15-2012, 22:34
I'm really enjoying the ideas in this thread.

racerford
02-15-2012, 23:41
Glock 18, 5 33 round mags :)

AimZeroed
02-16-2012, 04:18
Agree with the moving part but the weather is great in L.A. isn't. Don't forget basic pandemic precautions like a mask if needed, alcohol gel (although how effective the gel is on viruses is debated), and the rule of not touching your face without cleaning your hands first. I've had to ride public transport in the past and it is a great vector for disease so be careful SHTF or not. in japan at least sick people wear masks on the trains as a courtesy not to infect others. Here it has to be the other way around.

SouthpawShooter
02-16-2012, 06:08
I did something very similar to what you are doing for an EDC bag/kit I put together recently.

As far as bags go, you should decide what carry mode you want. Backpack, or messenger/sling style. They each have their pro's & cons. For "edc", I chose messenger style.

Why did I choose messenger style? A few reasons. I didn't want to carry anything on my person that was too large and heavy, so a backpack wasn't necessary. A messenger style bag can be either hung on whatever side you wish to access it from, and the strap can be either worn on the same shoulder (ladies purse style), or slung across the opposite shoulder.

Opposite shoulder is more secure carry, and generally better for weight distribution, but slower to take off. Having the bag at your side makes for easier access of what's in it, and makes for squeezing through tight spaces, or past people in a crowd easier without something protruding several inches behind you.

It also makes it easier to keep it secured, as you can easily notice if someone is trying to access it, and you can shift it so the bag is in your lap when seated. You don't even have to remove it. Since you're talking about public transportation, I think a messenger style makes even more sense for you. You never have to remove it, and you won't be off balanced and vulnerable putting it on, and taking it off. You also won't have someone grabbing it from behind you and pulling you down. You also can dump it fast if you have to.

Also, in terms of the type of bag, honestly, all this "gray man" talk doesn't really apply here. In the greater L.A. area, nobody cares whether it's "tactical" or not. They don't even know what that means. The only guys who will know, will be cops, .mil, or dudes who are into the same stuff we are. I see high school kids with all kinds of milsurp these days. Even emo kids have milsurp. In terms of theft, odds are higher if it looks expensive, or if it's an expensive, trendy brand. Or, someone desperate enough will just steal anything they can get their hands on, so it's a crapshoot.

Speaking of milsurp, I found a deal on a lot of a few gas mask bags and duffle bags, and I'm currently using a USGI gas mask bag as my edc bag. It's big enough to fit a small FAK,- little Johnson & Johnson plastic box from 99c store with added meds & h2o pur tabs, some snacks, leatherman tool/SAK, bandana and shemagh, coin holder, flashlight/battery, candy/mints, baby wipes, TP, iphone earbuds, repair kit (gorilla tape/superglue/silicone fusing tape/safety pins/zip ties), sewing kit, hard drive platter (signal/recon/vanity mirror), chap stick, paracord, dental floss, thumbdrive, pens/sharpies, sticky notes/paper, hand sanitizer, lighter, laser pointer, heavy duty garbage bag, foldable 16 oz plastic h20 container, and some other odds & ends.

If you want to fill it with stuff on the cheap, most of the things you'll need can be found at the 99c store, or big lots. I got quite a bit from there.

I also put other things in I may need occasionally. It's not that big, and it holds quite a bit. Just do a search for USGI gas mask bags and you'll see it. I've even gotten compliments on it from a few chicks who thought it was cool.

I think it's a great idea to have a bag of crap with you. Why not? Girls have their purses with stuff, why not us too? This bag is for daily comfort & convenience, with some stuff for "survival".

It's to make day to day living easier. Not for "mad max" "book of eli" "the road" fantasies. Worst case scenario, it will supplement a full GHB in my vehicle.

Bolster
02-23-2012, 23:38
Have been working on the PTB concept some more; for one thing, trying to get it cheaper (with little success). Not going to do the entire contents, but would like some discussion on some of the more basic elements:

* Anorak: I really like these. Using one as an "upper body condom," pull the hood up, and light weight protection from damp, wind, gives some face privacy, and a big marsupial pocket that comes in handy. Got insanely lucky at a thrift store and found a high quality, new-condition Columbia for $3.

* Cash: Ten $1 bills wrapped around some cards that look like credit cards (but aren't). That's my "throw-down" wad. I've decided to have no identifying information in my pack at all. If I lose it, it's not coming back.

* Cloth/plastic "mechanic" style gloves: one of the more expensive items in the kit @ $10, but they may be worth it. Pugman's recommendation. Will they get the use to justify?

* Mask: Upgraded to a 3M N95 nose/mouth mask because I can't get the images of 9/11 out of my head. A decent mask looked to be the most vital bit of kit you could have after the bldgs came down. As the medical people keep drilling into us, not breathing is a bigger risk than bleeding.

* Pepper Spray: Added it also. Legal (in small amounts), allows some space between me and attacker, and probably more effective against multiple targets than a knife. Drawback: less-than-lethal, and can put ME out of the fight, too, if the wind's wrong.

* Radio AM/FM: Broke down and added this too, the widely regarded $10 Sony ICF-S10MK2 Pocket AM/FM Radio (probably one of the best survival AM/FMs out there). I'm thinking this is probably worth the expense and space because it may serve as my "early warning system" if (I mean, WHEN) the S hits. My study of the LA riots lead me to believe there is a golden hour or two before gangs get organized, and the sooner I can be alerted to trouble, the further I can get out of harm's way. Batteries can be robbed to fuel the 1AA light.

* Space blanket, as per M1A's suggestion above. At $1.50, why not?

Sadly the whole kit, with the price of the pack, and $10 cash carried in the bag, set me back a total of $115 so far, BUT I'm rating a solid 50 on the GHB/BOB scale, which pleases me. Since I grabbed a fair amount of "spares" lying around the house, the replacement cost would probably be twice that. This is sad because if it gets too much more expensive I'll resent losing it.

A major modification has been to add a separate under-the-shirt covert pocket to the carry routine. That carries actual cash, credit cards, phone, mini light, mini compass. Tucked into waistband is a Spyderco. So even if the pack is gone, I'm not completely without survival tools.

@ southpaw: I think your single-strap pack argument (and other ideas you list) make a lot of sense.

@ the rest of you: thanks for your thoughtful input on this project, it has helped.

IV Troop
02-24-2012, 06:27
Contemplating this idea, it was bugging me. Spending hard earned money preparing to be a victim to thugs.

Screw that.

I would rather spend my money on an improvised weapon that allowed me an element of surprise. Give the thug a little "Shock and Awe" as I cave his skull in with a framing hammer for trying to rob me. I would rather risk getting cut than suffer the humility of just giving in to the reptiles.

IV TROOP

Bolster
02-24-2012, 09:33
Yeah, we've already had that discussion, and I understand the sentiment. The one time I have been robbed, I did not give it up. (Although why assume cut? Being shot is about 8x more likely).

BUT...Whether I should be making a throw-down bag or not, whether you are braver than I am, or more foolhardy, or more suited to combat, whether you're prepared to die for honor over a backpack, or whether you despise Los Angeles or not, whose law system is designed to make law-abiding citizens into victims, and then release the perps back into the system ... none of these are the topic of discussion.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the contents of a very inexpensive GHB to carry aboard public transportation, to see if it can be done well, and to see if it is useable when completed.

It has a second reason for cheap design, and that is leaving it behind by mistake. I do that more than I'd like, so it may not be "relieved" from me at all; I may walk off and forget it. Same rules apply: cheap is good.

It's been an interesting and fun exercise to try to spend as little as possible, and I'm happy to see the bag scores a "50" on our scale for just over $100. That's better than a poke in the eye, as the saying goes.

Thanks!

IV Troop
02-24-2012, 11:18
Then may I suggest adding a little white " I surrender " flag. An additional French flag may add some color to your ensemble! :)

These could be made for very little money. :)

Bolster
02-24-2012, 11:32
I guess I can sort of, a little bit, understand the bravado you express. But you've framed the debate so I'm a craven coward (french, at that!), and you're a brave bare-chested hero with flowing locks blowing softly in the breeze, so I'm doing my best to keep up with you here.

I suppose there are cases where a person’s life is worth less than $115. I suppose if you’re single, nobody depends on you, you have no wife, no kids, no family, a lousy job, no prospects, no plans, and no hope, then...yeah, a confrontation with two or three 9mm’s might look exciting--a real game changer. Imagine the newspaper headlines: “Lone S/P Forum hero kills three armed thugs with a framing hammer.” Subheading: "Gangbangers never saw it coming, all skulls caved in." Followed by a ticker-tape parade.

‘Course, it might not go down that way. If you survived, you could tell yourself the hospital stay was worth it, your permanent residence in a wheelchair was worth it, your colostomy bag was worth it, and you could regard yourself more highly for not being a coward. Your self-esteem, based entirely on 'not backing down' in a robbery where one Franklin is at stake, is worth more than self-esteem gained from anything else in life, and is perhaps more important than life itself.

This is interesting, from another thread, a poster suggesting you have "throwdown"guns ready when .gov comes to confiscate them:

"Throwaway" or "Sacrifice" guns, anyone? :whistling:

Yet nobody rips him as cowardly for suggesting a throw-down gun, worth 3-4 times as much.

The US Military teaches Escape & Evade. Should we mock the military for "not standing up and fighting?"

G29Reload
02-24-2012, 13:59
Yea to the AM FM radio, especially if you can get one with the NOAA stations on it.

In a disaster, alone, on foot and in the field away from a safe location, no quicker way to get live, realtime streaming info.

When you're like…WTF is going ON!!!???

Riots have broken out in neighborhood X….and are spreading to….

The earthquake appeared centered over XYZ and the radius of destruction extends to…relief centers with food and tents are being set up at….authorities say to avoid ...

Slip it into a usable pocket, plug an earphone into one ear and start getting info.

Not unthinkable to find a $100 2 meter VHF and get your ham license. With 5 watts and some preprogrammed repeaters you could talk with folks 5 miles or 50 miles away, though they tend to get swamped in an emergency. At least they would work though, during 9/11 cell phones could not get thru on a regular basis in Manhattan.

G29Reload
02-24-2012, 14:05
I If you survived, you could tell yourself the hospital stay was worth it, your permanent residence in a wheelchair was worth it, your colostomy bag was worth it, and you could regard yourself more highly for not being a coward.

OTOH, you can get these just as easy by having no gun, and nothing else to give the scum, many of whom would kill an unarmed man for a nickel. It happens…a lot. Giving scum what they want and not resisting isn't even close to a guarantee and one of the biggest myths out there.

While not generally able to get a carry permit in your area, unless its changed, the first offense is a misdemeanor. Meaning if you don't get caught with one, you've got an…almost free out. You'd lose the gun but not be a felon and frankly, concealed means concealed. I'd think a j-frame in a holster.

BEats rock-paper-scissors.

Bolster
02-24-2012, 17:58
Yes, and interesting solution proposed, will give it some thought.

My response was to the idea of a framing hammer or other improvised weapon, and I'm well aware that throwing down guarantees you nothing by way of safety, but odds are that it beats inferior-armed or weaponless defiance, which are known to provoke violence. Some robberies want to punish; others just want to grab and go. Playing the odds here. Agreed, a handgun is a superior option by far, and you have an interesting and risky solution for it.

...many of whom would kill an unarmed man for a nickel. It happens…a lot.

As far as "a lot" is concerned, LA is about 1/3 more violent than the national average. There are currently on average 2 homicides a day in Los Angeles, for 10 million people. Risking the riff-raff once a week makes my chances around .000005 per year (and that's treating an hour-long bus ride as a 24 hour exposure). If killed, then that chance will be excessively high; and if never molested, then excessively low! :dunno:

This is the interesting thing about prepping...you're almost always dealing with low-probability events that, if they occur, could mean hardship or death.

IV Troop
02-25-2012, 13:49
QUOTE=Bolster;18624957]I guess I can sort of, a little bit, understand the bravado you express. But you've framed the debate so I'm a craven coward (french, at that!), and you're a brave bare-chested hero with flowing locks blowing softly in the breeze, so I'm doing my best to keep up with you here.

I suppose there are cases where a person’s life is worth less than $115. I suppose if you’re single, nobody depends on you, you have no wife, no kids, no family, a lousy job, no prospects, no plans, and no hope, then...yeah, a confrontation with two or three 9mm’s might look exciting--a real game changer. Imagine the newspaper headlines: “Lone S/P Forum hero kills three armed thugs with a framing hammer.” Subheading: "Gangbangers never saw it coming, all skulls caved in." Followed by a ticker-tape parade.

‘Course, it might not go down that way. If you survived, you could tell yourself the hospital stay was worth it, your permanent residence in a wheelchair was worth it, your colostomy bag was worth it, and you could regard yourself more highly for not being a coward. Your self-esteem, based entirely on 'not backing down' in a robbery where one Franklin is at stake, is worth more than self-esteem gained from anything else in life, and is perhaps more important than life itself.

This is interesting, from another thread, a poster suggesting you have "throwdown"guns ready when .gov comes to confiscate them:



Yet nobody rips him as cowardly for suggesting a throw-down gun, worth 3-4 times as much.

The US Military teaches Escape & Evade. Should we mock the military for "not standing up and fighting?"[/QUOTE]

Bolster,

Get a Clue.

Spare me your "bravado" BS. I have spent my entire adult life in the service of my country, my state and my community. It is laughable that you should even broach the subject with me of what the military teaches.

I know full well the cost of losing, as does my family. I have buried more of my friends than I care to remember so don't even go there with me.

I have carried a gun for a living since 1988 and have the scars, injuries, and metal in/on my body associated from protecting others who are unable or unwilling to protect themselves.

BTW, here is a pic from me at "work" in the not too distant past.

So, spare me your bare chested hero/ticker tape parade BS.



http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/sanitizedDSHKA.jpg

Bolster
02-25-2012, 16:04
Great photo!

Clearly I've offended you, IV, and I apologize. However, you've been implying I'm a coward for constructing a cheap GHB that I'm willing to throw down. I also have a pedigree of service to the US military, but I find this sort of "one-upmanship" distasteful, so will leave it at that. I don't think that I should be hushed into awe and reverent silence when we disagree on something--which seems to be your argument.

I hope you appreciate the irony that you suggest fighting back is honorable, and then when I am critical of your statement (rhetorically "fighting back"), your response is "How dare you, look at my magnificent service." I'm gratified you're a warrior, and I appreciate your service, but as regards this discussion--what does your resume have to do with this thread? You give offense easily, then are overly offended when there's splash-back.

Frankly, I think that resisting armed thugs with improvised weapons, as you suggested, is not as good an idea, survival-wise, as is having a cheap pack you're not inclined to risk your life over. Pick your battles. That's what my training says.