Anyone a pilot? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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emt1581
02-12-2012, 18:58
For the past few years I've gained interest in getting my pilot's license. Today I ran into my motorcycle course instructor who's also got his pilot's license and he was talking to me about getting started.

Seems like it'd take between 50-100 hours of air time (thought most I'd read online say it's a few hundred to a few thousand hours). It'd also cost around $8K for everything. But he said once you have it you are good to go. Then it's just $100/hr to rent the planes locally or wherever.

In regard to S&P I'm just thinking that'd be a nice skill to have. Not only would you have the slim chance of being able to fly to wherever you wanted any time you wanted but in a TEOTWAWKI if you came upon a plan you'd be able to fly it. Now I'm sure there are codes and keys specific to each aircraft...but still I can think of many SHTF's that being a pilot would come in handy for.

So is anyone licensed as a pilot? What are your thoughts on the issue?

Thanks

-Emt1581

IrishSheepdog54
02-12-2012, 19:19
I have about 5000 hours or so (haven't updated my logbook in a long time), and used to be a captain for a regional airline. I've flown a bunch of stuff, including helicopters and gliders. Honestly, it's a good skill to have, but it's not like in the movies where you can jump into a plane and know how to operate it with ease.

I haven't flown a single engine prop in 8 or 9 years. I could probably figure it out in a few minutes if the SHTF, but I think my firearms skills are more helpful.

Flying is an outstanding hobby though! I can't wait until I have disposable income and can afford to rent a plane again. Too many expenses and debt right now to do it.

emt1581
02-12-2012, 19:26
I have about 5000 hours or so (haven't updated my logbook in a long time), and used to be a captain for a regional airline. I've flown a bunch of stuff, including helicopters and gliders. Honestly, it's a good skill to have, but it's not like in the movies where you can jump into a plane and know how to operate it with ease.

I haven't flown a single engine prop in 8 or 9 years. I could probably figure it out in a few minutes if the SHTF, but I think my firearms skills are more helpful.

Flying is an outstanding hobby though! I can't wait until I have disposable income and can afford to rent a plane again. Too many expenses and debt right now to do it.

Right I figured as much about hoping in and flying any plane off. But initially, after seeing the prices on ebay and such, I figured buying one wasn't bad. However, the UPKEEP would be the issue and easily more expensive than the initial cost of a used one within a few years.

But how awesome would that be....with enough property...to have your own plane and be able to fly wherever whenever!! If it weren't for the maintenance costs I'd start saving for one. Even if not buying it, being able to rent it for the week/end and go wherever in a few hours..again...pure awesomeness.

-Emt1581

cowboy1964
02-12-2012, 19:31
It's one expensive hobby, no doubt. I wouldn't do it just because you think it might be a nice survival skill to have. I always had a life-long dream to do it.

I've been out of it for years but have been considering getting back into it in some way as I get more disposable income. I've always wanted to get into sailplanes (though Ohio ain't exactly great sailplaning territory) or maybe gyros.

If you did have your own plane though it does provide a great and unique bug out option, depending on the circumstances.

http://www.sportcopter.com/Portals/2/images/sportcopter2_900.jpg

Dalton Wayne
02-12-2012, 19:31
Unless you plan on flying a lot It's not worth it Will be dangerous

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emt1581
02-12-2012, 19:38
It's one expensive hobby, no doubt. I wouldn't do it just because you think it might be a nice survival skill to have. I always had a life-long dream to do it.

I've been out of it for years but have been considering getting back into it in some way as I get more disposable income. I've always wanted to get into sailplanes (though Ohio ain't exactly great sailplaning territory) or maybe gyros.

If you did have your own plane though it does provide a great and unique bug out option, depending on the circumstances.

http://www.sportcopter.com/Portals/2/images/sportcopter2_900.jpg

Interesting looking vehicle...I'm guessing that's either a sailplane or gyro... :dunno:

Never heard of either.

Learning to fly helicopters and learning to fly planes are two totally different licenses though...no?

In any case, unless there is something that needs close to zero monthly maintenance I wouldn't want to buy one.

Thanks for the pic!!

-Emt1581

MadMonkey
02-12-2012, 19:39
Looking forward to getting my license when I return to the States... finally have a job where I can afford it!

emt1581
02-12-2012, 19:44
Anyone know of any websites that will show me the things I'd need to know/memorize/learn for getting my license (single prop fixed wing)?

If it's tons of logarithms and theories I'm not sure I'd do well but if it's equations and knowing lots of limits/standards...that wouldn't be to bad.

Thanks

-Emt1581

firefighter4215
02-12-2012, 19:48
It's a very expensive hobby, but can be a lot of fun. If you are a fair weather pilot the danger factor is reduced. The key to making it as safe as possible is to pay attention to everything. Don't get tunnel vision. It can be as challenging as you want it to be as well. Flying on a calm, cloudless day with great visibility isn't nearly as challenging as when the crosswind kicks up to 25-30 knots in weather. It can be whatever you want to make of it, if that makes sense. Have fun!

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firefighter4215
02-12-2012, 19:55
Anyone know of any websites that will show me the things I'd need to know/memorize/learn for getting my license (single prop fixed wing)?

If it's tons of logarithms and theories I'm not sure I'd do well but if it's equations and knowing lots of limits/standards...that wouldn't be to bad.

Thanks

-Emt1581

No complex math is involved for flying. There is a lot of memorization of limitations, regulations, and practical test standards, as well as basic maneuvers and emergency procedures. If you can consistently fly twice a week, you should be able to get your private license in 50-60 hours. If you exceed 60 that doesn't mean you're a failure, though. 40 flight hours is the bare minimum.

As for websites, you can go to the FAA website to find the practical test standards. Google "Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge." I think it's published by the FAA. Also get or read online if possible a current version of the FAR/AIM. Parts 61 and 91 are a good place to start, as well as learning the proper terminology. Go take a Discovery flight too.

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kckndrgn
02-12-2012, 21:14
I started going for my license when I was in high school. I went through a local "Civil Air Patrol" group. See if you can find one, you may get disounted lessons, I know I did. I got just past my solo flight and ground school before a doctor grounded me for an operation, never went back :(

Burncycle
02-12-2012, 21:58
I'd like to get my private pilots license as well, and eventually instrument rating. Thinking of starting with light sport pilots license first since the hours will eventually contribute towards a private pilots license and it's a few thousand cheaper.

PhotoFeller
02-12-2012, 22:25
There is a simpler option for getting started that is less expensive, quicker and less demanding for achieving a solo license. There is a civilian flying program that results in a 'recreational pilot's license'. It's a step below a private pilot's license. After achieving the rating, the pilot (1) can fly solo, but can't be accompanied by an unlicensed passenger, (2) can't fly in weather requiring instrument training and (3) must abide by other restrictions not imposed on private pilots; there may be a requirement to stay within a certain distance of the airport you're operating out of.

In my opinion, this is an excellent pathway to a private ticket. You solo much quicker, you get to experience piloting small aircraft quickly in order to determine if the time and expense of further training is something you really want to do and, you're developing skills that will be necessary to move up to a private rating if you decide to do it.

Check this program out on line or at your local airport.

firefighter4215
02-13-2012, 07:04
I never understood the Recreational certificate. 10 more hours of training and you're at the minimum for the Private license. Isn't the minimum flight time for a Recreational certificate 30 hours? It's been quite a while since I've looked up any of this stuff.

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cowboy1964
02-13-2012, 11:41
Nothing that flies is going to have zero monthly maintenance. It's like a car or a boat, but MUCH more expensive. Plus you have to store it somewhere unless you are lucky enough to have a strip in your backyard.

cowboy1964
02-13-2012, 11:49
Commander Ken Wallis flying his gyrocopter - YouTube

If this ain't fun I don't know what is.

Gyrocopter stunt - Flying at very low level in FULL-HD - YouTube

SPIN2010
02-13-2012, 11:54
It is all fun and games until the gas bill comes due from fuel delivery ... SHTF! :shocked:

R22/R44 pilot here. I survived.

wrenrj1
02-13-2012, 12:05
Commander Ken Wallis flying his gyrocopter - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O55VBmBM35I)

If this ain't fun I don't know what is.

Gyrocopter stunt - Flying at very low level in FULL-HD - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058NelwSkkw&feature=related)

Gyrocopters will just get you killed...
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb87/wrenrj1/humongus-shoots-at-gyro.jpg

Kieller
02-13-2012, 12:07
$8K is a similar number that I have been quoted by instructors to get your private license. I am looking to do this eventually and own my own plane. That is several years down the road though unfortunately.

emt1581
02-13-2012, 14:13
Watched that video for the gyrocopter...interesting as a flying machine but not as much utility as a plane in regard to passengers, distances, cargo, etc.


Thanks

-Emt1581

PhotoFeller
02-13-2012, 14:25
I never understood the Recreational certificate. 10 more hours of training and you're at the minimum for the Private license. Isn't the minimum flight time for a Recreational certificate 30 hours? It's been quite a while since I've looked up any of this stuff.

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You may be right about the 30 hour stick-time requirement. I know about the program because a friend of mine took this route to solo.

I don't know what the cost per hour is for an instructor and aircraft, but if its $200/hour you've spent $2,000 less to get airborne on a solo flight than going for the private license. The hours you log as a 'recreational' pilot would count towards a private ticket minimum, so starting out with a simpler, less expensive, quicker program would seem to have some merit.

firefighter4215
02-13-2012, 15:00
You may be right about the 30 hour stick-time requirement. I know about the program because a friend of mine took this route to solo.

I don't know what the cost per hour is for an instructor and aircraft, but if its $200/hour you've spent $2,000 less to get airborne on a solo flight than going for the private license. The hours you log as a 'recreational' pilot would count towards a private ticket minimum, so starting out with a simpler, less expensive, quicker program would seem to have some merit.

If I remember correctly, the training requirements are different enough that it may result in more than 10 extra hours to get a Private license. For example, the cross country flights in excess of 50 NM will not be required for the Recreational license. That is 8 hours, I think, of that 10. I'm not sure if a Recreational certificate requires 3 hours of instrument training or not. If it does, great. If not, then that's 11 hours. Like I said before, I can't remember all the details. It's been a while since I've had to know. Depending on what a person intends to so with their flying hobby, the Recreational certificate could indeed be a better buy than the Private, though I never ran across a situation that fit the bill.

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jtull7
02-13-2012, 18:07
If you are interested in the art of flying, you might get a book called Stick and Rudder - an Explanation of the Art of Flying by Wolfgang Langewiesche. It is the all-time classic on flying. You can get it on Amazon.

RED64CJ5
02-14-2012, 07:42
Unless you plan on flying a lot It's not worth it Will be dangerous

This is how I have always felt. I have dreamed of having my license. Many times over the years I have thought about it and come close to signing up. It has never been an issue of money for me. Even if it were $25K, I'd sign up tomorrow...if I had the time. I know I could "make time" but other things would suffer -- family, church, home, work....

To me, flying seems like a huge amount of risk unless you can devote ample time to it. The same goes for scuba. I have been diving several times but I always know my limitations and try to keep things reasonable compared to my level of skill (and more importantly, experience.)

I realize that fair weather flying makes things much safer to the novice, but it does not make up for lack of experience when SHTF.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from flying, by all means I want to fly myself, but just realize there is a greater risk of death taking on that hobby/skillset. Plan and prepare accordingly.

bdcochran
02-14-2012, 09:24
First the rain. I had about 10 private pilot crash claims (all deaths) come across my desk. Time and again, it would be non rated pilots going up at night, or a rated pilot ignoring the weather. Success in one area of human endeavor (business dealing, being an EMT) does not translate into being a careful, skilled, thinking pilot.

You did hit upon two excellent ideas - flying over danger and having the ability to fly.

Brian's Airfield in Los Angeles is the last licensed private airfield. It is the base for ultralights. With about 20 hours of supervised flight instruction in a two seater, you could consider yourself qualified. Of course, since you have a wife and child, you would have to leave one behind when shtf. Otherwise, for under $10,000 you have a fun way of flying and escape. You only need the length of an elementary school school yard to take off. You would easily be able to do 20 miles through the air, enough to get out of most danger. The instruction should cost under a couple of thousand dollars.

Ultralights today have a parachute built into the frame. Of course, you might be too close to the ground or not strapped in, but the safety aspects of modern day ultra lights is well thought out.

Ok. Here is the challenge. If you are willing to spend a couple of thousand dollars to get a skill, then you can get a regular pilot's license later. Too many people say that they want to get a pilot's license, start and then quit.

Brian Lee
02-14-2012, 10:20
Flying, much more so than cars, is a game where your odds of crashing can be altered to a far greater extent by the habits and safety-mindedness of the individual pilot. After being an avid reader of The NTSB Reporter for several years (as many pilots are, because of the opportunity to learn what caused other people's crashes) I now know that about 75 percent of the small plane crashes are caused by the kind of persistent lack of safety-mindedness that I'm just never guilty of, and therefore those particular crashes simply could not happen to me.

All you gotta do is stick to flying by the rules, (no buzzing low over your buddy's house) do your pre-flight checks properly, and don't hesitate to cancel the flight and give the keys right back to the people you rented it from (No matter what they say!!) if the plane flunks the pre-flight. Just by sticking to ALL the safety rules and NEVER breaking them, your personal chances of crashing a plane will drop to about 1/4 of what the overall average is.

I really believe that it's the most habitually reckless 5 percent of the pilots who cause nearly 80 percent of the crashes. There's a small fraction of these guys who are actually in the habit of NEVER doing pre-flight checks, as hard as that is to believe. This may not be true of airline pilots, but among the guys who rent Cessna's (like me) those reckless guys exist, and their stupidity is making flying look about 4 times more dangerous than it really is.

A responsible Cessna pilot can keep the level of danger down to almost the same as it is driving a car, and that's dozens of times less dangerous than driving a motorcycle. And I've owned motorcycles too, so I know this from several previous near death experiences that all happened on the bikes - not in the planes.

A lot of people do things every day that are more dangerous than flying a rented Cessna.

TangoFoxtrot
02-14-2012, 10:40
Anyone a pilot?
When I was younger, but didn't need a plane to fly.

Sierra9
02-14-2012, 11:15
I have a commercial certificate for multiengine land instrument, single engine sea, and glider. Flying is a challenging, fun endeavor. There is always more to learn. You need to talk to an instructor and get the correct information on time and cost involved for your area. Once you have the ticket, you must maintain your flying skills. It's not a hobby you want to get rusty at. So you need to find out the costs of rental or ownership to maintain those skills.

Unless you are highly experienced, you are not just going to jump into any airplane and fly it. You will stick to the same aircraft unless you get additional training and sign- offs.

You might take a couple of introductory flights to help decide whether to pursue it.

Contact AOPA for information and join if you plan to take up flying.

PocketProtector
02-14-2012, 11:23
Flying, much more so than cars, is a game where your odds of crashing can be altered to a far greater extent by the habits and safety-mindedness of the individual pilot. After being an avid reader of The NTSB Reporter for several years (as many pilots are, because of the opportunity to learn what caused other people's crashes) I now know that about 75 percent of the small plane crashes are caused by the kind of persistent lack of safety-mindedness that I'm just never guilty of, and therefore those particular crashes simply could not happen to me.

All you gotta do is stick to flying by the rules, (no buzzing low over your buddy's house) do your pre-flight checks properly, and don't hesitate to cancel the flight and give the keys right back to the people you rented it from (No matter what they say!!) if the plane flunks the pre-flight. Just by sticking to ALL the safety rules and NEVER breaking them, your personal chances of crashing a plane will drop to about 1/4 of what the overall average is.

I really believe that it's the most habitually reckless 5 percent of the pilots who cause nearly 80 percent of the crashes. There's a small fraction of these guys who are actually in the habit of NEVER doing pre-flight checks, as hard as that is to believe. This may not be true of airline pilots, but among the guys who rent Cessna's (like me) those reckless guys exist, and their stupidity is making flying look about 4 times more dangerous than it really is.

A responsible Cessna pilot can keep the level of danger down to almost the same as it is driving a car, and that's dozens of times less dangerous than driving a motorcycle. And I've owned motorcycles too, so I know this from several previous near death experiences that all happened on the bikes - not in the planes.

A lot of people do things every day that are more dangerous than flying a rented Cessna.

All true. Number #1 cause for airplane accidents is brain failure.
Flying is truly an awesome one of a kind hobby and while expensive, lots of ways to control the cost and stay current.

jtull7
02-14-2012, 12:13
There are old pilots. There are bold pilots. But, there are no old bold pilots.

No one has ever been injured or died from a timely 360 degree turn in the face of weather.

MadMonkey
02-14-2012, 15:07
No one has ever been injured or died from a timely 360 degree turn in the face of weather.

I'd say that's probably caused more than a couple of accidents... :whistling:

dmjonez
02-14-2012, 15:24
I'd say that's probably caused more than a couple of accidents... :whistling:

Maybe a 180 degree turn might be better, in that case... :whistling:

jtull7
02-14-2012, 17:04
You guys are right. I screwed up. 180 degrees.

Glock,Nevada
02-16-2012, 17:12
I think it would be more fun to get a helicopter pilots license. I live in more of an urban area so a helicopter would be a lot easier to take off and land with. I've always wanted to fly a helicopter...

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bdcochran
02-16-2012, 19:06
Ground school instructions - $2,000 to $2,500
Helicopter rental/instructor for dual-flight training - $6,000 to $10,000
Helicopter rental for solo-flight training - $1,600 to $2,400

Some flight schools may include the use of a flight simulator and pre-post flight briefings as part of pilot training costs. Not included is a fuel surcharge of $8 per flight-hour.

Other training expenses - These expenses include the following:

Books and supplies - $400
Insurance waiver - $300 to $500 (fee to waive all responsibility for deductible)
FAA medical certificate - $75 (from authorized FAA aviation medical examiner)
FAA written exam - $90
FAA flight test (free if taken from FAA Inspector/ $400 from FAA-designated examiner)
Use of helicopter for FAA flight test - $200

Total Cost - Private helicopter license is $12,000 to $16,000.
Cost For Helicopter Pilot License

For $16,000 you can get the training and the ultralight.

paintballwannab
02-16-2012, 20:20
I've always wanted to fly a helicopter...



Me too, until I bought one of the little remote control ones and crashed it :wow:...cured my want to fly a heli.