" Any place where federal law prohibits the carrying of firearms. " [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Numismatist
02-13-2012, 16:43
I've searched...is there a comprehensive list of Federal places one is not allowed to carry even with a permit?

My state has a list of banned places but also states:

" Any place where federal law prohibits the carrying of firearms. "

Is there a list somwhere? I'd assume Federal buildings, but really looking for a comprehensive list.?

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oneofthose
02-13-2012, 16:47
I'm curious to see the answers you get here. I think Fedaral building is generally where Federal control ends. The States take over from there.

eracer
02-13-2012, 16:50
National museums?
National monuments?
Military bases?

Numismatist
02-13-2012, 17:13
National museums?
National monuments?
Military bases?

These too! Then there's the Post Offices, National Cemeterys, technically isn't the Interstate a Federal Highway?

I really think there should be a list.:wow:

HerrGlock
02-13-2012, 19:15
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

18 USC ß 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.
(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.

HerrGlock
02-13-2012, 19:16
As of right now there's also a Corps of Engineers ban on carrying firearms. It's being argued as we speak and they're trying to get it overturned.

One more edit that I'm not seeing immediately is the Federal Reserve Bank. If you don't know specifically what that is you've never had use of one. It's where the banks bank. There are a dozen or so in the US and it is illegal to carry in there.

Shinesintx
02-13-2012, 19:30
As of right now there's also a Corps of Engineers ban on carrying firearms. It's being argued as we speak and they're trying to get it overturned.

One more edit that I'm not seeing immediately is the Federal Reserve Bank. If you don't know specifically what that is you've never had use of one. It's where the banks bank. There are a dozen or so in the US and it is illegal to carry in there.

Huh??? Whuuuut? The Federal Reserve is privately owned...

Bruce M
02-13-2012, 19:54
...
One more edit that I'm not seeing immediately is the Federal Reserve Bank. If you don't know specifically what that is you've never had use of one. ...

There is a branch here. It looks like the type of place at that one does not just randomly show up and saunter in without having an appointment and some sort of invitation.

MotorCityBear
02-13-2012, 20:01
What about Federal park lands, like the Blue Ridge Parkway or national forests? I have heard (unofficially) you are not allowed to carry in any Federal park.

NC Bullseye
02-13-2012, 21:53
What about Federal park lands, like the Blue Ridge Parkway or national forests? I have heard (unofficially) you are not allowed to carry in any Federal park.

Well, officially you can on the BRP.

http://www.nps.gov/blri/parknews/new-firearms-regulations.htm

HarleyGuy
02-13-2012, 22:21
Don't forget Social Security offices.

HerrGlock
02-14-2012, 04:02
Huh??? Whuuuut? The Federal Reserve is privately owned...

Yes but the guards in it are federal employees and they are regularly present to perform their official duties. Now go look at the definition of federal facility.

Scott3670
02-14-2012, 09:55
Does this apply to the parking lot of a Federal facility? As an example how about when someone goes to the Post Office or Social Security office and dutifully locks up his/her gun in their car before entering either place? Just a hypothetical situation of course.

HerrGlock
02-14-2012, 10:09
Does this apply to the parking lot of a Federal facility? As an example how about when someone goes to the Post Office or Social Security office and dutifully locks up his/her gun in their car before entering either place? Just a hypothetical situation of course.

Dunno. No one knows yet. You can find opinions both ways.

I have seen 1 (one, ONE) court case where there was a firearm in the car that got thrown out because a parking lot is not a federal facility because it's not a building where federal employees go for work daily. That's shaky at best.

There's a couple in CO suing USPS to bring their firearms on property. This one's being watched by just about literally everyone:
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/28/colorado-couple-sues-u-s-post-office-over-gun-ban/

dosei
02-14-2012, 10:40
What about Federal park lands, like the Blue Ridge Parkway or national forests? I have heard (unofficially) you are not allowed to carry in any Federal park.

Since February of 2010...Yes, you can.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2009/05/national_parks_gun_law_take_ef.html

EAJuggalo
02-17-2012, 04:34
Just not into any buildings on federal park land.

HarleyGuy
02-17-2012, 08:37
Just not into any buildings on federal park land.

As I read it, that's onlyi n buildings in a National Park where federal employees work, such as visitor centers, ranger stations etc.
Restrooms, gift shops are OK unless the're posted.
Be VERY careful because in some cases he signs are not posted in a high visibility location.

EAJuggalo
02-17-2012, 10:44
Who is manning the gift shop register?

Gary Slider
02-17-2012, 10:50
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

Go to this page at www.handgunlaw.us (Link Above) and there is a listing of federal properties that are off limits. One listing is federal buildings. This would be any building owned by the federal government. If you scroll down to National Parks etc Section you will see the federal law stating the buildings must be posted. Seeing that I should have had that federal law in the Off Limits Section I have added that same law that buildings must be posted to the bottom of the Off Limits Section. That change will not show up for a few days though.

Misty02
02-17-2012, 19:17
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf

Go to this page at www.handgunlaw.us (http://www.handgunlaw.us) (Link Above) and there is a listing of federal properties that are off limits. One listing is federal buildings. This would be any building owned by the federal government. If you scroll down to National Parks etc Section you will see the federal law stating the buildings must be posted. Seeing that I should have had that federal law in the Off Limits Section I have added that same law that buildings must be posted to the bottom of the Off Limits Section. That change will not show up for a few days though.

This is great! Thank you!!!!! I donít know how I missed this page before.

.

geoemery
02-17-2012, 20:04
One place the feds prevent carrying weapons, other than the security force is nuke plants.

Angry Fist
02-17-2012, 20:16
One place the feds prevent carrying weapons, other than the security force is nuke plants.
Yeah?

steveksux
02-18-2012, 08:34
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. I know the "other lawful purposes" has been dissected to death here, but in isolation. I'm on the fence on that, lawful purposes could only mean mailing an unloaded gun already packaged. Or ccw is certainly a lawful purpose. I can see that going either way, and would not want to be a test case.

What about "incident to hunting"?

You can hand carry a loaded hunting rifle into a post office if you stop by to mail a letter on your way back from the woods to your car?

Or what does that specifically refer to?

That would seem to set the bar pretty low, would be much less "dangerous" for lawful ccw if you can hand carry a hunting rifle into a post office legally under certain conditions. In that context, it would seem ridiculous to claim lawful concealed carry of handguns is now allowable, wouldn't it?

Randy

JBCIII
02-18-2012, 09:04
Work in a Federal facility - once you pass the guardshack you are on US Gov't property and cannot possess a weapon. Everyone is subject to random searches... only the armed security (and agents) are allowed to carry.

There is a story told to us about a person who alerted a sniffer dog during a random check; supposedly they searched the car from top to bottom and nothing was found. Apparently the employees brother had been shooting, and then fixed/reattached the employee's license plate, and the dog picked up the powder there. Either a great story or a great dog!

Also, supposedly one person worked out a 'holding' arrangement with a business up the street: dropped off on the way in and picked up on the way out.

Other job prohibits any weapons @ work by policy, so carry is not common for me anymore.

Bill Lumberg
02-18-2012, 09:04
No. Not that I've seen. Prohibited properties and installations tend to be very well posted though. And "lawful purposes" doesn't mean permittee carry. Permittees aren't allowed to carry on most federal property, so doing so for them would not constitute lawful conduct. Rather, it would constitute a bag full of 18USC930 FAIL. Carrying where prohibited is bad enough- doing it in violation of US code in a place where you may be looked at as a potential terror threat (double rainbow FAIL). Good luck whatever you choose.

I've searched...is there a comprehensive list of Federal places one is not allowed to carry even with a permit?

EAJuggalo
02-19-2012, 06:37
No. Not that I've seen. Prohibited properties and installations tend to be very well posted though. And "lawful purposes" doesn't mean permittee carry. Permittees aren't allowed to carry on most federal property, so doing so for them would not constitute lawful conduct. Rather, it would constitute a bag full of 18USC930 FAIL. Carrying where prohibited is bad enough- doing it in violation of US code in a place where you may be looked at as a potential terror threat (double rainbow FAIL). Good luck whatever you choose.

And you have Supreme Court of the United States precedent for this assumption? How about Circuit Court of Appeals?

The correct answer is it hasn't been challenged and decided yet. The AG and most of the LEAs would agree with what you posted but I'd like to think that the five members of SCOTUS that can read would agree that you're wrong. Read the penalties portion of what HG posted: A fine and not more than one year imprisonment, so a misdemeanor. Hardly what someone would consider a "double rainbow FAIL" WTF that is.

Ryobi
02-19-2012, 06:49
Correct. No. Not that I've seen. Prohibited properties and installations tend to be very well posted though. And "lawful purposes" doesn't mean permittee carry. Permittees aren't allowed to carry on most federal property, so doing so for them would not constitute lawful conduct. Rather, it would constitute a bag full of 18USC930 FAIL. Carrying where prohibited is bad enough- doing it in violation of US code in a place where you may be looked at as a potential terror threat (double rainbow FAIL). Good luck whatever you choose.

ScottieG59
02-19-2012, 14:08
This is something I have to deal with daily. I work on an Army post. I may not carry my weapon concealed on post, though all my weapons are registered on post. I have a couple car safes secured in my vehicle and store the unloaded hand gun in one with ammo in the other. I can not reach the safes when driving or in the driver's seat.

When I first did my COW training in Kansas, the federal carry issues were well covered. It may be worth checking with your state Attorney General's office since they will likely be able to point your to the authoritative federal requirements. It is too easy to find yourself in violation since the federal government also leases space in various buildings.

Gary Slider
02-19-2012, 18:51
Federal property that is off limits must be posted by law. If not you can't be charged. Here is the federal law as taken from my website. Here is a link to the complete law. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/930

Law Stating That All Federal Buildings Must be Posted.
18 USC Sec. 930 01/03/2007
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 – FIREARMS
Sec. 930. Possession of Firearms and Dangerous Weapons in Federal Facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) Omitted for space considerations here
(d) Omitted for space considerations here
(e) Omitted for space considerations here
(f) Omitted for space considerations here
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
(3) Omitted for space considerations here
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.