Getting Home: Stick to the Freeways? Or the "back" roads? [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Getting Home: Stick to the Freeways? Or the "back" roads?


Bolster
02-15-2012, 16:14
Question: Imagine you took the 110 freeway in Los Angeles (the north/south one surrounded by yellow and red) to get to work (north) and back (south). Now imagine an "event" occurs (say, Barack Obama is not re-elected, and Los Angeles is burning). If you were caught on the 110, say complete gridlock, or car won't run, and walking was your only option for movement, would you (a) walk the freeway itself? (b) walk side streets? (c) head west as quickly as possible and then drop south? (d) stay put in your vehicle on the freeway? (e) other option?

Now I know that there will be lots of wise-ass remarks about "leave LA" and other non-answers (you don't just close down a business and a career for maybes and ifs, in my opinion). But once we get all the LA-bashing and city-bashing out of the way (not that I disagree with any of it, it just isn't helpful), what would you do in this situation?

Primarily I'm interested to know if you think that a freeway, whether running or not, is safer than the side streets through the urban 'hoods. Seems like it would be, to me. I would imagine more armed gangs roaming the adjacent 'hoods than the freeway itself. Anything yellow or red, you really don't want to be there, due to sky high crime rates. But, I wanted to see what the collective wisdom of the forum would be.

(And for those concerned about my opsec, the green dots don't precisely locate my work or home, but close enough for discussion).

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j435/Bolsterman/scan608post.jpg

Footnote: My wife (then girlfriend), hot chick in red sports car, drove THROUGH the smoke and fire on either side of the central freeways during the 92 LA riots, back and forth to work. She said the central freeways were wide open because all the cautious (frightened? wise?) people were jammed up on 'safer' freeways further away. So she just barreled through the smoke and fire at 70 mph and was happy the traffic was light. She has more balls than I have, I think.

cowboy1964
02-15-2012, 18:04
Freeway. Also less chance of getting lost.

glock_19guy1983
02-15-2012, 18:29
Move out of california....problem solved

maxxmojo
02-15-2012, 18:47
I'd probably stick to the freeway. I'd imagine during a riot or whatever is going on all the looting and crime will be taking place in the urban parts of the map, plus I'd think there'd be a bigger chance of getting ambushed on the back roads or in the hoods. The only real downside I can think of off the top of my head for the freeway would be during inclement weather conditions, unless you just opted to stay in your vehicle until it cleared up.

gimmejr
02-15-2012, 19:43
If it was walking and not a car and if it was in LA Id probably stick to the freeways.

Bolster
02-15-2012, 20:27
OK, freeway. Thanks for giving this a think.

Raiden
02-15-2012, 21:17
My big reservation of the freeway is that you've fairly limited escape routes if something should happen in front or behind of you. The exits are spaced out a mile or two apart, and it's a good 20 ~ 30 foot drop from the edge of the freeway to the ground below with only a few stretches having a traversable embankment. That said, I'd probably also stick to walking the freeway, but I'd be making efforts to survey as far ahead at each entrance/exit ramp. Maybe a 30' length of rope with a heavy-duty carabiner might be helpful, in letting you make a hasty descent from the freeway if trapped a ways from an exit. Just loop around the guardrail, toss it over, and hope you still have fingerprints after skittling down.

Bolster
02-15-2012, 21:41
Good caution. When our freeways are not at ground level they are sometimes above, and sometimes sunk down into the ground, which would actually be worse, easy to be trapped and harder to clamber up and out. Just the same, I'll be watching for this on the next drive.

Syclone538
02-15-2012, 22:25
Damn man, that's a bad situation, with no good answer.

Either stay on the freeway, go west then south, or maybe the side streets around the bad area.

Definitely not walk the side streets through the bad area.


Primarily I'm interested to know if you think that a freeway, whether running or not, is safer than the side streets through the urban 'hoods.

I have never been to LA, but that seems pretty simple to me. Right now, would you rather drive the freeway through there, or drive the side streets through there?

20South
02-15-2012, 22:52
add something to your ghb to help you get over the side of the freeway in case of ambush?

racerford
02-15-2012, 23:28
Good god man... if you are in the red or yellow areas, do not walk on the freeway (or side streets foir that matter) RUN!!!

I don't know the area well enough, or the scale of the map to know the distances, but get to where you can run that distance with a full pack. Oh, and carry bear spray or what ever the law allows.

SouthpawShooter
02-16-2012, 05:11
I grew up in the L.A. area, but not that part. I'm not super familiar with that area, because I just rarely had a reason to go that way.

That being said, if I were you, at this point in time when things are pretty much fine, I'd drive a few alternate routes and take note of what areas you'd want to avoid. Just make a note of what streets look good, and try to come up with a few different routes that look safe, have places on the way you can possibly resupply, or maybe even water sources.

For all you hicks out there who only know about L.A by watching TV, you don't know Jack. It's actually much better than it's made to look. Yes, there are areas that suck, but there are some very good parts.

Also, the "riots" were so overblown by the media, it's a joke. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as they made it sound. I drove right through it, a few times.

If you have any street smarts at all, and didn't act like a retard, and didn't go down to Florence & Normandie with a white sheet on, you were fine. That idiot Denny only got beat because he was retarded. So, he's in a giant truck, and he leaves his door unlocked, and doesn't attempt to drive away? WTF?

At any rate, just figure out the "good" streets to stay on, and you'll be fine.

Raiden
02-16-2012, 07:07
Grand Ave. and another street parallel 110 at ground level, through most of that stretch, and they're not particularly troublesome. If there were unrest, I think folks will stick to their side of 110, and either filter away or head towards downtown. There's usually just a block or two of homes to the east and west. You don't start seeing a ton of stores until either Main or Hoover (closer as you get near downtown), and I think that's where the looting might start during an event. So that might give you some breathing room, if you can't stay on the freeway. If stuff gets real bad, the freeway also works as a firewall (providing both sides aren't up in flames). Bear in mind, I haven't haunted LA in years, so I dunno what - if any - areas have gotten better/worse.

JBL13
02-16-2012, 07:26
Maybe you could keep a bicycle at your business and if, before you leave to go home during some sort of event, it looks like you might not be able to make it home in a car, attach the bike to (or in) the car just in case you hit some sort of roadblock or just ride the bike -- on the side of the freeway.

quake
02-16-2012, 07:51
I can't imagine either one being anywhere near "safe"; no idea which would be "less unsafe"... Hard to visuallize an answer for me - I literally have to drive around 40 miles to get to a divided interstate. Our "highways" are usually two-lane (one each direction), with an occasional center turning or passing lane.

On the interstate has the dangers mentioned above, largely summed up in "bottleneck" or "funnel". Off the interstate in that environment seems like it might approach a walk thru a warzone, with a whole lot of dangerous individuals in all directions.

Bilbo Bagins
02-16-2012, 08:17
Wow, Bolster you got a legit threat there. Good call to plan ahead

I'll be honest with you, knowing LA history of riots, my advice would be to stay on the highway, and far away from the neighborhoods that had problems in the past.

I'm thinking that rioters will be a lot less likely to be wandering the highway, and will stick to the streets. You would be more likely to be another "Reginald Denny" if you cut thru the neighborhoods.

kirgi08
02-16-2012, 08:22
Multiple routes.'08.

walt cowan
02-16-2012, 08:45
if one waits for that shtf moment before they hit the road... might as will settle down on that parking lot and wait to die. keeping your eye on local,national and world news should give you months, weeks, days or even hours of warning. you need to be on that road (any road) before the sheep start running scard.:supergrin:take the time now to learn all the ways both in and out. don't over look anything...any road, alley, parking lot, driveway, railroad or path. keep in mind if that shtf moment has hit, traffic laws won't mean squat, like one way, wrong way, hov only, do not enter, no pov's and such. be prepared to drive on, around and through anything. also, you'll need the following tools to help you and others behind you make your way to saftey; large bolt cutters and a railway pry bar (jerrsey walls and those cable barriers in the median) wrenches (sized for the nuts and bolts on guard rails) and a small set of bolt cutters for fences. a good tow strap or chain to pull things out/down of you way. think ahead.:supergrin: just remember all those sheep running out of new orleans, stuck on the interstate, out of gas, food, water all the while the other side of the inter state was free and clear. if someone had just moved, unbolted or cut a barrier......:whistling:

walt cowan
02-16-2012, 09:46
p.s., get a c.b. radio mounted too. nothing works better at letting you know whats going down on the freeway. at least in a 2 to 4 mile area around you.:wavey:

LSUAdman
02-16-2012, 09:58
I'm really interested in the replies in this thread.

Bolster, I dont live in LA, but in another urban sprawl - Houston. I've wondered the same thing. I live enough along the periphery that I could stick to the woods and either go north or around Houston if I felt the roads were unsafe.

With emergencies and evacuation orders in place, urban sprawls suck. I dont know how many times you have had to evac or ration in LA, but in Houston it's rough. When hurricanes come in, gas, water, batteries and some other things are dried up usually 2-3 days out. If people evac, then the roads are totally blocked for hours.

I dont evac, but my brother and his family did a few years back. After 13 hours they only got 6 miles away from the house. So, keep that in mind. If it's so bad that everyone able to drive can drive out, then they will try...and that could be as bad as walking through the less than savory areas or trying to hunker down until things get quiet (if that is an option).

Bolster
02-16-2012, 10:42
Thanks for the replies all.

I've been on side streets in the 'yellow' areas and as I said, I'd never go there in any sort of disruption. Bad enough when everything's cool. So it seems to me, after the advice on this thread, that my options are:

(1) Shelter in place hopefully at work, but possibly in vehicle (but that leaves family on their own)
(2) Stick to the freeway and walk it south, being as vigilant as possible
(3) Strike West to the coast, and follow the coast down. Considerably longer, probably a two-day rather than a one-day walk, but those are the upscale neighborhoods along the beach. Would they be immediately infiltrated with undesirables? I doubt it, in the previous LA riots, the looters trashed their own neighborhoods.

Obviously if you can't move, you can't move, so (1) is an unpleasant option. But (2) vs (3) are puzzlers. Chances are I might get stuck on the 110 halfway to, or from. If I happen to be using public transportation that day, then staying put is probably not an option.

Another question that arises: at what point do you abandon your vehicle? Imagine complete gridlock (easy to imagine here in LA). If that gridlock is likely to remain in place for 24, 48, or more hours, at what point do you get out and hoof it? Being on your feet with a backpack makes you a lot more vulnerable, but at least you can move. Please discuss.

Syclone538
02-16-2012, 10:45
...
For all you hicks out there who only know about L.A by watching TV, you don't know Jack.
...

Dude, why the attitude?

LSUAdman
02-16-2012, 13:45
Something you said earlier made it sound like you owned your own business, is that true? If so, do you have room in your business to set aside supplies for a shelter in place scenario? Any way you can fortify your business (metal shutters, fences, etc) so that you can stay there until it's calm enough to leave?

I think in most cases, unless there is a quake or some sort of natural disaster, your best bet is to let the unprepared leave and you stay behind. Looters are going to go for targets of opportunity first - think low hanging fruit - before they begin to loot harder targets.

How far is your home from work? Do you usually drive or take mass transit?

maxxmojo
02-16-2012, 14:15
Another question that arises: at what point do you abandon your vehicle? Imagine complete gridlock (easy to imagine here in LA). If that gridlock is likely to remain in place for 24, 48, or more hours, at what point do you get out and hoof it? Being on your feet with a backpack makes you a lot more vulnerable, but at least you can move. Please discuss.

I'd think the answer to that question heavily relies on what exactly is going on. The news from the radio would help tremendously to know why you're stuck there, i.e. a pile-up or a large scale riot. For most purposes I could easily camp out in my vehicle for 24 hours, after that I'd probably start walking. If say it's pretty obvious that radio stations aren't transmitting anymore (verifying from other vehicles parked around me) or there's military aircraft constantly flying overhead then I'd probably just start walking right away.

SouthpawShooter
02-16-2012, 16:57
Dude, why the attitude?

Why? Because it's incessant. People who either have never been here, or who haven't spent much time here constantly telling us we're idiots for being here. That's why.

It contributes nothing to the discussion when people reply with the flippant "just move" comment. Especially when the OP says right off the bat it isn't gonna happen.

I think I'll do a thread on this sometime soon. Some things really need to be said, but I don't want to take a dump on the OP's thread, so this is the last word I'll say in his thread on it.

KD5MSY
02-16-2012, 19:52
I would say the freeways:
1) Most ppl on said freeway with you are like you just trying to get some where, there no blocking traffic just to start a riot.
2) ppl at ground lvl in populated areas breaking windows and carring ball bats are there to riot and cause ****.
3)elevated position so less chance of getting hit by a stray bullet from the ground.
4) if some one starts shooting you are in grid lock so there are plenty of cars with engines, trans, wheels, glass, and thin sheet metal to take cover/conceal behind.
5) you know where you are going, and the shortest distance between two points is a strait line!

RED64CJ5
02-16-2012, 20:04
This is funny. I got to thinking about your question in terms of my local area.

Freeway: 2 lane, undivided state highway
Medium: Farm-to-Market (FM) roads, smaller version of above less shoulders typically
Backgrounds here: unpaved county roads

Around here, the FM's and backroads the way to go, if you know where you're going.

Below is a very relevant music video... :)

Rodney Atkins - Take A Back Road (Official) - YouTube

xcrewman
02-16-2012, 21:03
your better chance is take Wilshire Blvd. West then head south on La Cienaga, Robertson to Sepulveda Blvd.

I spoke to a retired CHP officer a year after the riots, Harbor fwy 110 was ground zero between Sta. Monica fwy and 105. any one that did not fit the demographic of that said area was shot, raped and thrown over the fwy.

or if you have an Latino in you head over to Huntington Park area. place was basically riot free.

TangoFoxtrot
02-17-2012, 06:05
Getting Home: Stick to the Freeways? Or the "back" roads?
I would say you have to be like water and take the path of least resistance. Another words stay away from dangerous areas (if possible).

Bolster
02-18-2012, 20:00
Again, I really appreciate the sincere advice I'm getting here. Much appreciated. As some have noted, if can shelter in place, do so. I agree. If problems happened while at work, I'd stay the heck in my building which is pretty darned safe. My concern is if the disruption occurs while in transit either to or from.

Sometimes I do take public transportation (an express bus). Obviously I won't be doing that during the election returns, or at other risky times. But I'm trying to think out plans B and C and D before I have a surprise issue, given that there are some rough neighborhoods between work and home.

So one thing this thread has motivated me to do, is to physically drive alternate routes that look safer, and go through better neighborhoods. I want to be familiar with a few of the alternates, size up the neighborhoods, etc.

The other thing that just occurred to me...crazy as it sounds...is that I might actually want to throw a jar of face "tint" in my kit. I would blend in better if my complexion were a little more latino and less nordic. The downside of this is, if discovered, I would likely be dispatched immediately, due to the "faking of ethnicity" which I would imagine would inflame the wrong kinds of people.

"Avon, L’Oréal, Garnier and a variety of other companies are heavily marketing new face creams that either lighten or darken skin tones"... maybe helpful for me??

I spoke to a retired CHP officer a year after the riots, Harbor fwy 110 was ground zero between Sta. Monica fwy and 105. any one that did not fit the demographic of that said area was shot, raped and thrown over the fwy.

Yeah, that's the danger zone I'm talking about, that I go through on a regular basis. My wife reminded me that during the LA riots there were snipers firing onto the freeways. I should do some research but I assume the 110 would have been under fire.

Pretty good summary here:

http://libcom.org/history/1992-the-la-riots

The rioting wasn't immediate, it took hours to build. That's actually comforting, if I react quickly to get to a safer place.

Highlights: "In a few hours rioting spread across the LA metropolitan area. Conditions rapidly approached the level of civil war. The police withdrew from the main areas of fighting, ceding the streets to the insurgent poor. Systematic burnings of capitalist enterprises commenced. More than 5,500 buildings burned. People shot at cops on the street and at media and police helicopters. Seventeen government buildings were destroyed. The Los Angeles Times was attacked and looted [interesting, as it's invariably leftist.] ...Incoming flights had to be diverted due to the smoke and sniper fire...The rioting was the single most violent episode of social unrest in the US in the twentieth century, far outstripping the urban revolts of the 1960s both in sheer destructiveness and in the fact that the riots were a multiracial revolt of the poor. In the initial phase of the LA riots, the police were rapidly overwhelmed and retreated, and the military did not appear until the rioting had abated....there were around 11,000 arrests (5,000 black, 5,500 Latino, 600 white) and the vast majority of participants got away scot-free....On May 2nd, 5,000 LAPD, 1,000 Sheriff's Deputies, 950 County Marshals and 2,300 Highway Patrol cops, accompanied by 9,975 National Guard troops, 3,500 Army troops and Marines with armoured vehicles and 1,000 Federal Marshals, FBI agents and Border Patrol SWAT teams moved in to restore order and guard the shopping malls. Hundreds were wounded. Most of the people killed in the uprising were killed in the repression of the revolt. After much fighting and the largest mass arrest in US history the LA 92 insurrection came to a close.

ICARRY2
02-18-2012, 20:32
Call a buddy with a reliable vehicle and a s***load of ammo for the ride home.

bdcochran
02-18-2012, 20:59
Freeways suck. Yeah, I ran the freeways in 92 as well.

25 mile back up on 10 last weekend.

You go east and run down through Vernon east of downtown. You can run Figueroa up until you get near down town. But Figueroa downtown sucks. You would be better off the last distance skipping east on Olympic to Main, go north, cross the freeway, go west to Broadway and up.

People will not instinctively take the truck routes through downtown on surface streets because they are not familiar with them.

Time and again, people hang on the freeway even though they know when there will be jams. Example, they take the 5 north past the split with the 14. Just next to it is the "Old Road" that runs from the San Fernando Valley all the way to
castaic. It is/will be empty on the weekends when people stay on the 5 freeway even though there are accidents.

There is no substitute for knowing the side roads.

West LA starts a rush hour at 3 pm. It is impossible to go east on three and sometimes 4 lane wide Olympic

Blvd. All you have to do is run the side streets with stop signs, know where to cross with lights and save a lot of time.

Another example. Figueroa is the longest street in the world. From the Harbor, there is a substreet level double track rail line in the middle. On either side are two lane truck streets through industrial areas. If the lights are working, you can sail along at about 45 mph while people are dead stopped on the local freeways. When it gets near downlown, Figueroa becomes the street on which the 40 story office buildings are built and the railline runs east of there.

bdcochran
02-18-2012, 21:04
1. the California National Guard arsenal was at Camp Roberts, 350 miles away. The ignorant base commander forbade loading small arms ammo at night because there were no flood lights.
2. M16s were stored separate from firing pins. No ammo in local armories.
3. The ammo was issued 3 days after the troops were deployed.
4. Most of the looters were immigrants from Central America.
5. Korean shops were systematically looted and burned, mile after mile.
6. Where is the most expensive bomb shelter in LA? The command center in East LA. Top guys get in, not you. No other bomb shelters in LA. No stockpiles of food or water.
7. No supply of guns or ammo stored at LAPD because the material would be stolen.
8. No arms or ammo stored at the local FBI unless there is now a supply in the gun range under the VA in Westwood.

Bolster
02-18-2012, 21:55
BD, that is both fascinating and terrifying. I need to learn more about the LA riots. That's one bit of history I can easily imagine repeating itself.

quake
02-18-2012, 23:21
...Also, the "riots" were so overblown by the media, it's a joke. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as they made it sound...

We may just have different definitions of 'bad':
...More than 5,500 buildings burned.
...Seventeen government buildings were destroyed.
...Incoming flights had to be diverted due to the smoke and sniper fire
...around 11,000 arrests
...5,000 LAPD, 1,000 Sheriff's Deputies, 950 County Marshals and 2,300 Highway Patrol cops, accompanied by 9,975 National Guard troops, 3,500 Army troops and Marines with armoured vehicles and 1,000 Federal Marshals, FBI agents and Border Patrol SWAT teams
Bolster didn't mention deaths. There were over 50 people killed, never mind the thousands wounded to one degree or another. I'd classify that as "bad".



...For all you hicks out there who only know about L.A by watching TV, you don't know Jack. It's actually much better than it's made to look. Yes, there are areas that suck, but there are some very good parts.
First, I agree with you about not flippantly saying "just leave"; the OP said that wasn't going to happen, so it's a pointless thing to say.

That said, some of us "hicks" are out of the cities by choice; and in my family's case it's exactly because we DO know city life. My wife and I lived in Houston TX for years (she for 32 years, me for 11 years), so we do know city life.

Sometimes people simply choose "calm" over "hectic" and are willing to accept the lifestyle differences that that decision means; doesn't necessarily make them idiots or bumpkins. We both have college degrees - she's a microbiologist and I spent a fair number of years at NASA before the crime in Houston got to the point where we just left. And that was almost 20 years ago (1993) that we left there; we still visit relatives there on occasion and as far as I can tell, it's not gotten any "less bad" in that time.

So yes, when the OP flatly states he's not moving, it's pointless (and possibly even rude) to reply with the reflexive "just leave" response. But it's also pointless, rude and presumptive to assume that people who don't live in a large city, don't understand life in a large city. Many do, and one day did make the decision to "just leave".

No offense meant; but no need to be reflexively hostile either. :wavey: :beer:

Bolster
02-19-2012, 09:27
Understood, and good on those of you who were able to make the jump and move away from the metropolitan centers. I would like to do that as well if it weren't economically so difficult for us to do so. Unfortunately both the wife and I have the sorts of jobs that are excessively tied to large population centers. We weren't thinking about that, during the years of preparation for these jobs.

I don't want this thread to turn into yet another 'city vs country' thread, as they are so prone to do. There are literally dozens of 'city vs country' threads elsewhere that can be used for denigrating each other. Clearly there are major disadvantages to being in a city during a social dislocation. But suffice to say that there are careful preppers in big cities whose chances of survival may be significantly reduced compared to those in the country, but significantly enhanced compared to other city dwellers. Some of us are doing what we can to prepare for an uncertain future, and we appreciate the advice of our country cousins, and wish them well, even if you hear the sound of envy in our voices.

Ha, Quake! You've outed yourself as an educated man (with an educated wife to boot). I had suspected as much. Expect no mercy, rocket scientist!!

series1811
02-20-2012, 07:46
When I left for Katrina, I took back roads and at one point came up on a gas station with no lines. I filled up, just to be sure, and then drove toward the interstate. A quarter mile from the interstate, just 3 or 4 miles from the station I filled up at, I came up on a second gas station.

It had a line going back toward the interstate as far as you could see. Horns were blowing and people were standing beside their cars looking around like scared rabbits. Not knowing, that if they just drove 4 more miles, there would have been no line at all.

bdcochran
02-20-2012, 08:46
Stop thinking about what YOU will do and think about other people.

People drive around on empty and don't service their cars. If they drive recklessly when things are normal, they will drive the same way when shtf. Do they have a family plan? Of course not. Do they ever map out alternative routes between the workplace and home? No.

If you go into the typical guy's car, does he have a knife, jacket, food and water? Of course not.

What is the typical guy's mindset going to be? Run home with everyone else on the same freeway!

I had to go from Riverside, CA to the ocean last Wednesday afternoon in the rain. It took 4 hours with a lot of side roads, little traffic and a stop for Chinese food. Of course there were rain-related accidents blocking the freeway, people driving on the shoulder, and blowing lights deliberately. There were even traffic lights off near the freeway and on the back country roads. It only took me 1.5 hours to go out there in the morning on the freeway.

Do you want to be around people freaking out when shtf?

sebecman
02-20-2012, 09:07
For all you hicks out there who only know about L.A by watching TV, you don't know Jack.

< < Hick.....:supergrin:...never set a foot in Cali.....:wavey:

And might I add proud of it..:whistling:

kirgi08
02-20-2012, 09:27
For neither love or money,would I live in California.'08.

bdcochran
02-20-2012, 09:30
Avoid coming to California. Moreover, never go to New York City, Disneyworld, a foreign country, or a town over 50,000 in population. You avoid a lot of problems.'

Make friends with your neighbors. Never tell people what you own.

Then, figure out what problems you have where you are.:wavey:

quake
02-20-2012, 09:58
Avoid coming to California. Moreover, never go to New York City, Disneyworld, a foreign country, or a town over 50,000 in population.
I don't personally go that far... :supergrin:

I'll visit cities for vacation & work both - cities do have some fun and interesting things that smaller towns just don't - but I don't want to be there permanently; and certainly don't want to have to be there.



Make friends with your neighbors. Never tell people what you own.

Then, figure out what problems you have where you are.:wavey:
With those, I agree completely. Well, back to my hick life... gotta go find something to neuter or milk. (It's bad when I confuse the two...) :embarassed:

Bolster
02-20-2012, 10:02
I've asked politely, TWICE now, that we not turn this into another tiresome urban vs rural thread.

TWICE. Politely. Third time, not politely:

Knock it off.

If you're not able to add anything to the conversation, other than to denigrate where someone lives, then don't say anything. We are all very well aware of the advantages and disadvantages of urban vs. rural. Facile dismissals of issues, or uninformed recommendations that a person and his family "just leave" their home, business, school, friends, extended family, elderly parents counting on you, & community -- in the name of preparation for some remote contingency -- are fatuous in the extreme.

There's a difference between preparation and paranoia.

sebecman
02-20-2012, 11:35
With all due respect......... (and I mean that because I actually like a lot of your threads)

Just because you start a thread doesn't mean you own it and can control what is posted in it.

Us hicks sometimes find it hard to resist sharing our opinions, perhaps that my come as a shock to some of you city folk.

kirgi08
02-20-2012, 11:39
We add plenty,the 2A rights have been trampled in the state of Kali.Sorry ta offend your notions.There is no saving California,they borrow more than Peter tryin ta pa Paul just ta meet their collective Med care.'08. :upeyes:

Bolster
02-20-2012, 12:57
Well I like your posts, too, Sebecman. If you and a half-dozen other favorite posters weren't posting here, I'd be gone. The rest of this post is not addressed to you personally, but to the forum generally:

It seems however that many of you think my growing irritation about the off-topic comments about my location, comes from an urge to defend California. That is incorrect. I have no love for the state as I disagree with almost every impulse of its persistently wrong-headed leftist leadership and at least two-thirds of its ignorant and lazy population of sheeple. My existence here is determined by other considerations entirely, mostly familial and business oriented. I have obligations that you may not, so there it is.

My growing irritation comes from a different source entirely: a repeated behavior of this forum, being, if I ask any particular question about urban preparedness, I am inundated with responses that I should move to a rural area. There is so much "noise" about location, or urbanity, or anti-california hatred, and so little "signal" as regards procedures, tactics, and gear (the ostensible purpose of this forum) that I actually wonder if I should even post any questions of this sort any more. Much of what I get is ignorant braying, and I should just ignore it, but it starts to irritate when its repeated ad nauseam.

Obviously asking a question here is akin to herding cats, and you are free to let fly with your prejudices and hatreds. I now realize that most people on this forum prefer to talk about (1) television shows of pretend survival situations, (2) the relative merits of slightly different gun calibers (differences that must be measured with a micrometer), and (3) round after round of what's best summarized as "I hate your location and mine is better." I continue to ask questions because of the number of intelligent people who frequent this forum and actually post thoughtful, quality replies.

If folks are merely posting their opinions of how much they hate urbanity, or california in particular, please know that (1) I don't disagree and (2) that's not anywhere near the question I asked. How much you hate California or Los Angeles does not help me determine what streets to take home.

However, since there is such an overwhelming urge for people to vent their hatreds of other locations, or urbanity, or particular cities, etc, then let's start another thread expressly for that purpose. Then folks needn't clutter up an otherwise legitimate question thread with their prejudices and ego-preening.

So if there's no more thought regarding walking freeways vs. side streets, I'll assume this thread is done, having descended (as so many do) into captiousness.

racerford
02-20-2012, 16:14
I understand thread drift, but those does tend to be trend that if you are serious about you must go rural. While I live semi-rural (sort of in a town of less than 6000 50 miles from a very large urban are) I understand not everyone can afford to or wants to live the rural life for the chance of a disaster that will make rural the DEAD right decision. I wish people would let it go unless it is the topic of discussion.

I made a semi?-humorous response to not walk through the area but run. I accept you are in the situation you are in, and want advice on how deal with the situation you are in. I see no value to you or anyone else on the forum to suggest that you abandon your life and maybe loved one to move to a different situation unless you are asking for that advice.

I am also up for some light hearted California bashing just like I will take a light hearted bashing of Texas.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Paul53
02-20-2012, 16:53
Freeway. Tactical advantage in several ways.

bdcochran
02-20-2012, 18:51
Racerford: I remember going through the Dallas-Fort Worth area in 1957 when there was a distinct break between the two cities. The last time I drove through about 5 years ago, it seemed that the freeway was 8 lanes wide on each side.

I went to a wedding in Austin about 10 years ago. It had way grown out of its humble French beginnings and the traffic jams out to the suburb rivaled those in LA>

I know the areas where Bolster lives and works. If he has to go home, he is only going to the eye of the storm.

A lot of people are delusional and insist on keeping up a rural vs. urban dialog. If you can get in the car in the driveway and on one tank of gasoline get to a gang infested area of the nearest city, the gang member can get in his stolen car and come visit you. The rural vs. urban vs. suburb thing is ridiculous when you are not prepared by experience, skills, current health, or equipment realistically to support yourself and your family through hunting or subsistence farming.

quake
02-20-2012, 20:37
Fwiw, I've actually enjoyed reading the few posts of those that have been in those (Katrina, LA riots, etc) situations, and how/what they did. I'd like to hear more of them.



Not to feed the drift, but just my .02 on things:
...My existence here is determined by other considerations entirely, mostly familial and business oriented. I have obligations that you may not, so there it is.
Very important there. Everyone's situation and circumstances are different, and one size does not fit all.



...There is so much "noise" about location, or urbanity, or anti-california hatred, and so little "signal" as regards procedures, tactics, and gear (the ostensible purpose of this forum)...
Understood. But also allow that if someone posted here asking the best way to handle things in Greece today, there would inevitably (and understandably) be a flood of "get out of Greece" responses. Not relevant or helpful probably, but predictable, and even sound advice from a purely objective perspective. Not advice that can always be implemented, but still going to be forthcoming, and I suspect that it would be coming with the best of intentions.

...If folks are merely posting their opinions of how much they hate urbanity...
Good word (one definition being "amenities" or "refinements"), as it describes part of what I mentioned earlier. Cities DO offer things that rural areas don't; no way around it.



...So if there's no more thought regarding walking freeways vs. side streets, I'll assume this thread is done, having descended (as so many do) into captiousness.
Ok, that one I had to look up. :cool: (Good word)


Kidding & rants aside, I'd really like to hear more examples. I do know that my wife's sister & her husband and their kids tried to bug out of Houston once several years ago (some hurricane, I forget exactly when), sticking to freeway and didn't make it. Leaving southeast Houston (Sagemont area), in six hours on I-45 they'd gotten less than 15 miles, and ended up turning around & going back home. Don't know what would have happened if they'd tried side roads, plus there were no riots to avoid - just hoardes of other bug-outers - so not a perfect comparison anyway.

Curious for other "been there" examples - I confess I have none city-related.

Bolster
02-20-2012, 21:21
Popping back in to apologize for getting so grouchy in this thread. My bad. I realize many of you are trying to help, and my thanks for the good advice so far.

Please carry on. Will avoid commenting while I cool down during a self-imposed "time-out."

sebecman
02-21-2012, 08:13
:wavey: no harm no foul. I have said worse.....


also I will try and refrain from my knee jerk response of "just move" in the future.

mac66
02-21-2012, 10:16
I sure wish someone would market a one or two person blimp so we could rise above the chaos when we need to.

wjv
02-21-2012, 11:26
So one thing this thread has motivated me to do, is to physically drive alternate routes that look safer, and go through better neighborhoods. I want to be familiar with a few of the alternates, size up the neighborhoods, etc.

That's a good plan. I know of 2 alternatives to each main road that I commute on. If you add all of the combinations together there are probably 20+ unique combinations of roads I could take home. So if one road looked un-passable for whatever reason, I'll just choose an alternate.

I also have a map and a compass in my get home bag, so worse case I could go cross-country and avoid the roads completely.

I would be traveling from a semi-urban environment to a more rural environment so as the housing thins out there are a lot of farms and open space that I could cut across.

As for freeways or not? It all depends on the type of SHTF. If it's something that could cause mass evacuation, or an emp strike that "killed" all the cars, then the freeways could be choked solid. If your walking you could be passing thousands of people who might start wondering what kind of goodies you have in your back-pack.

I think that more importantly will be for you to to move ASAP. Don't stand around the water cooler with co-workers for 2 hours discussing why the lights, laptops and cell phones are all dead.

It will probably take 2-3 hours for the panic to set in. Use that time to GTF outta Dodge and get a jump start towards home. Using my alternate transportation device I could probably get 12 miles under my belt in 2-3 hours. (Home is 18 miles from work) If I had a bicycle, I could probably make it all the way home in 2-3 hours. .

mac66
02-21-2012, 15:11
That's a good plan. I know of 2 alternatives to each main road that I commute on. If you add all of the combinations together there are probably 20+ unique combinations of roads I could take home. So if one road looked un-passable for whatever reason, I'll just choose an alternate.

I also have a map and a compass in my get home bag, so worse case I could go cross-country and avoid the roads completely.

I would be traveling from a semi-urban environment to a more rural environment so as the housing thins out there are a lot of farms and open space that I could cut across.

As for freeways or not? It all depends on the type of SHTF. If it's something that could cause mass evacuation, or an emp strike that "killed" all the cars, then the freeways could be choked solid. If your walking you could be passing thousands of people who might start wondering what kind of goodies you have in your back-pack.

I think that more importantly will be for you to to move ASAP. Don't stand around the water cooler with co-workers for 2 hours discussing why the lights, laptops and cell phones are all dead.

It will probably take 2-3 hours for the panic to set in. Use that time to GTF outta Dodge and get a jump start towards home. Using my alternate transportation device I could probably get 12 miles under my belt in 2-3 hours. (Home is 18 miles from work) If I had a bicycle, I could probably make it all the way home in 2-3 hours. .

When we had the big blackout back in 2003, I stayed at work while we released everyone to go home. Of course the traffic lights were out and it turned into a nightmare for everyone who left. I think power went out about 2 pm. My family was good to go (we had food water, fuel, generator) so I didn't need to rush home. I had to stay at work anyway to make sure everyone was out and that the place was secured. When I left for home at 10 pm there wasn't a vehicle on the road. I had thirty miles to go which usually took me an hour in normal traffic. I think I got home is about 28 minutes and only half of that was on the freeway.

The point is, if you don't get out before everybody else, (advance warning of a hurricane for example) it might be better to stay put until the first wave of evacuations and panic is over. Of course that doesn't apply if space aliens are invading your city or you are trying to get away from nuclear fallout but otherwise I think it better to wait.