MN pro-gun law in senate this week... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Lynch_6913
02-20-2012, 13:45
Attention Minnesotans and anyone who may want/need to carry in MN. This bill HF 1467 covers a castle type law for Minnesota it also covers full reciprocity for all states.

Contact your district representative. I contacted mine, they are supportive of it.

It passed a committee covering the topic 10 to 5.


http://nraila.org/legislation/state-legislation/2012/02/minnesota-nra-backed-omnibus-pro-gun-bill-moving-to-the-state-senate-floor.aspx?s=&st=&ps

EAJuggalo
02-20-2012, 17:05
Recognition, not reciprocity. Reciprocity with all states means that a MN permit would be valid in all 50 states. Recognition of all states means that anyone with any permit may carry in MN.

This will pass the senate, the question is can we shame the plutocrat Governor into signing it?

tim12232
02-20-2012, 18:19
I hope this passes! Im from MN and visit there frequently, this would be very nice to allow CC while visiting friends and family!

xmanhockey7
02-20-2012, 19:01
I do believe they tried to pass this last legislative session but it failed??? I worked in MN over the summer and couldn't carry at all I really hated it too bad the law didn't pass so I could have carried.

geoemery
02-20-2012, 19:32
I have read Minneapolis LE is making some wild claims in hopes of defeating this bill.

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_19928008

http://extranosalley.com/?p=20345

JK-linux
02-20-2012, 19:41
.....

ponders
02-20-2012, 19:48
good! i hope it passes .. i have family in minnesota and i live in North Dakota.. would be nice if my permit was valid there. right now its not.

when it does become valid there it will be nice to carry there as i dont like going far into another state where i dont know how to get anywhere and i dont know the layout of the place i go to, so needless to say im lost when i cross state lines. and it suks to be unarmed when lost:wow:

will be nice to have my g19 with me when it passes :wavey::cool::supergrin::supergrin::supergrin:

EAJuggalo
02-21-2012, 07:41
xman, it is still the same session, they adjourned for the season last year but that only freezes everything in odd number years. Each session is two years long, so when the Legislature started up again they picked everything up right where they left off. The senate has to pass it but the house does not have to re-pass it.

JK-linux
02-21-2012, 08:34
.....

TBO
02-21-2012, 11:19
The Gov is an odd duck (and extremely liberal in his ways), hard to tell what he will/don't do.

Pete250R
02-21-2012, 13:00
I call him Governor Goofy.

I'd put money on a veto.

JK-linux
02-21-2012, 14:52
.....

tim12232
02-21-2012, 15:12
I received a reply to my email. Not sure if I will bother to reply as she's playing the "the cops told me to vote this way" angle. Any constructive suggestions for a reply?

*****,
Thank you for your email. After first hearing of this bill, I contacted the chiefs of police at both the Minnetonka and Plymouth Police Departments, as I feel our law enforcement officers are the experts in questions such as these. Both chiefs expressed great concern regarding the expanded deadly force elements of the bill, which expand the use of deadly force to ones porch, lawn or vehicle and the fact that a person would only need a reasonable belief that a threat exists to meet the burden of proof to avoid prosecution. They are concerned that the proposed expansion puts many people at risk who might go onto another personís property unannounced, especially law enforcement officers.

The state already provides the right for an individual to protect themselves with deadly force in public or in their home if they are facing death or serious bodily harm. This bill reverses the common law rule of retreat that sets the standard that killing another person should be done only as a last resort and allows shooting whenever there is a perceived threat, even if the shooter could safely walk away. This provision could provide legal cover for gang members to shoot and kill without any duty to retreat when involved in a confrontation with other gang members, and it would be more difficult to charge offenders for shooting someone because they could claim they were threatened.
As a result of the concerns expressed by our local law enforcement as well as the chiefs of police in Minneapolis and Saint Paul, I voted against this legislation when it came before me. I do strongly support our constitutional right to bear arms and hope you will continue to share with me your thoughts and concerns in the future.
Best regards,
Terri


My email to her...

I would bring up the gang member analogy that she so quickly used! For one how many gang members are running around with legally acquired firearms? And why not let the trash take out the trash?!! I would also find someway to respectfully argue her belief that the local PD chiefs are in anyway experts at law making, not being anti leo here, but their job is to enforce the law, not come up with laws and interpret new laws. IMHO

EAJuggalo
02-21-2012, 18:21
Also most chiefs especially in that part of the metro are not too keen on anyone having guns that doesn't have a badge. Not the individual officers but the brass seem to be very out of touch with what actually goes on in their cities.

I might point out that there is still the reluctant participant requirement, also why should a law abiding citizen have to attempt to leave someplace they have every right to be and possibly put themselves in a much worse tactical position.

kansasboy91
02-21-2012, 23:52
Go mn!

tim12232
02-26-2012, 09:09
Any update with this at all?

EAJuggalo
02-27-2012, 08:59
Passed the Senate 40-23 Thursday. My understanding and from what is posted on the Legislature website is that this is now on to the Governor for either a signature or a veto. At least one news station this morning is reporting it has to go back to the House first. As of right now this does not have a veto proof majority, it would take three more senate votes for that.

tim12232
02-27-2012, 09:29
fingers crossed!!!! Lets just home Mark Dayton pulls his head out of his arse for a few to sign it!

JK-linux
02-27-2012, 12:02
.....

EAJuggalo
02-29-2012, 18:37
I was incorrect, it did have to go back to the house for a procedural vote. It went through and is now on the Governor's desk. There is a slight possibility that a veto could be overridden. There is a much greater possibility that the legislative leadership works out a deal with the Gov for something he wants later in the session.

xmanhockey7
02-29-2012, 19:14
I was incorrect, it did have to go back to the house for a procedural vote. It went through and is now on the Governor's desk. There is a slight possibility that a veto could be overridden. There is a much greater possibility that the legislative leadership works out a deal with the Gov for something he wants later in the session.

They're doing this a year too late! For me at least lol

EAJuggalo
02-29-2012, 19:37
I was correct, the senate made a minor change to the bill which the house voted to accept rather than having a conference committee.

JK-linux
02-29-2012, 19:45
.....

tim12232
02-29-2012, 22:28
when is his decision to sign or veto expected to happen? Any info on what the minor change to the bill will be?


Tim

MinnesnowtaWild
03-01-2012, 00:02
I hope he signs it, but he has an overwhelming amount of police officers and chiefs telling him to veto this bill.

EAJuggalo
03-01-2012, 07:52
I hope he signs it, but he has an overwhelming amount of police chiefs telling him to veto this bill.
FYP, rank and file officers support this bill. It is incredibly left wing Police Chiefs and Mayors that are against it. The House sponsor of the bill is currently a licensed peace officer and has been for many years.

I believe that the Governor has until close of business Monday to either sign or veto, but have heard this morning he will do one or the other today.

I found this morning this was added to the bill in the senate version.
"(d) An individual is not entitled to the benefit of the presumption in paragraph (a) if the
individual knows or has reason to know that the person against whom the defensive action is being
taken is a licensed peace officer from this state, another state, the United States, or any subordinate
jurisdiction of the United States, who is acting lawfully."

There is huge pushback from the local gun grabbers on the universal recognition, extension of purchase permits from one to five years but not as much on what they've termed "Shoot First."

tim12232
03-01-2012, 09:32
Do the purchase permits cost anything? I dont remember paying anything back in the day....If I did couldnt have been more than 5 bucks.

xmanhockey7
03-01-2012, 11:40
"(d) An individual is not entitled to the benefit of the presumption in paragraph (a) if the
individual knows or has reason to know that the person against whom the defensive action is being taken is a licensed peace officer from this state, another state, the United States, or any subordinate jurisdiction of the United States, who is acting lawfully."

So if I know the guy is a police officer (off-duty) and for whatever reason he pulls a gun on me (illegally) and I shoot him, I am probably going to trial. Sounds legit.

ETA I realize that is a part that includes "acting lawfully" but I'm betting prosecution will do their best to prove otherwise.

ponders
03-01-2012, 17:58
FYP, rank and file officers support this bill. It is incredibly left wing Police Chiefs and Mayors that are against it. The House sponsor of the bill is currently a licensed peace officer and has been for many years.

I believe that the Governor has until close of business Monday to either sign or veto, but have heard this morning he will do one or the other today.

I found this morning this was added to the bill in the senate version.


There is huge pushback from the local gun grabbers on the universal recognition, extension of purchase permits from one to five years but not as much on what they've termed "Shoot First."




has he done anything yet? you said by today,,, just looking for updates thanks:wavey:

EAJuggalo
03-01-2012, 17:59
Tim, Permits to Purchase or PTP are free and should be received within seven calender days from the date of application. In practice getting one in Minneapolis or St. Paul costs money, either in parking fees or transportation fares. And in St. Paul at least they'll get it to you when they get it to you, regardless of what the law says. Generally two to three weeks.

Xman, lets be honest, if you shoot one of the "special people" with a badge you're going to trial unless you've got other cops to back your story. We had an incident here a couple months ago where an undercover cop was driving extremely aggressively, got out of his car with his gun but no badge, got shot by a permit holder and the permit holder ending up losing his permit, gun, job and a few thousand dollars. The cop is still undercover last I heard.

EAJuggalo
03-01-2012, 18:01
has he done anything yet? you said by today,,, just looking for updates thanks:wavey:

Not that I've heard, although one of the supporters of the bill got a letter from his office indicating he was going to veto.

http://www.mnguntalk.com/download/file.php?id=10354&mode=view

ponders
03-01-2012, 18:02
Not that I've heard, although one of the supporters of the bill got a letter from his office indicating he was going to veto.

http://www.mnguntalk.com/download/file.php?id=10354&mode=view



so there is no chance of it going into law then :steamed:

janice6
03-01-2012, 18:13
I wouldn't hold my breath hoping for a logical approval.

(If this is passed, I will take out a newspaper ad apologizing to Dayton for my disbelief (pretty safe bet)).

Pete250R
03-01-2012, 18:21
Governor Goofy would never do anything that actually protects citizens.

ponders
03-01-2012, 19:04
if its passed how long till its in effect?
:dunno:

TBO
03-01-2012, 19:34
Unless specifically stated in the language, most new laws take effect in MN on August 1st.

tim12232
03-01-2012, 22:17
Tim, Permits to Purchase or PTP are free and should be received within seven calender days from the date of application. In practice getting one in Minneapolis or St. Paul costs money, either in parking fees or transportation fares. And in St. Paul at least they'll get it to you when they get it to you, regardless of what the law says. Generally two to three weeks.


Thats what I thought! I got mine back in 05 from the Apple Valley PD went in on my 21st birthday to get ready for pistol ownership!

EAJuggalo
03-01-2012, 22:34
Here is the text of the final bill as introduced last week that does not include the amendment listed above.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=S1357.2.html&session=ls87

Look at the date on the letter, it was mailed monday, long before the Governor received the bill. He has spoken with a few legislators about it, including the author of the bill.

TBO is correct, if signed all provisions would take effect Aug. 1, 2012.

ponders
03-02-2012, 20:22
any updates?

EAJuggalo
03-03-2012, 00:47
He has until midnight monday to veto or it becomes law Aug. 1. The author of the bill met with the governor to discuss it and came away expecting it to be vetoed. General consensus here is that unless he does nothing and allows it become law, it's dead this session. 5 votes short of override in both chambers, if the dems that voted for it the first time are willing to override.

ponders
03-03-2012, 09:34
5 votes short of override in both chambers, if the dems that voted for it the first time are willing to override.[/QUOTE]



im not sure im understanding that correctly. so it can or cant be overridden?:dunno:

EAJuggalo
03-04-2012, 18:05
Based on the votes in each chamber they would need five more votes in each chamber to override. Not an insurmountable number but not very likely either. And this is assuming that all the Democrats who voted for it the first time would continue to vote for it during the override, as anyone from Wisconsin knows, some legislators will change their vote so as not to weaken a governor from their own party.

Bottom line, it could happen but it's not very likely.

Lynch_6913
03-05-2012, 09:33
Minnesota residents, please continue to contact Dayton.

I believe that today is the last day its on his desk either way.

Whether it changes his opinion or not, its hard to complain about it when you didn't do anything to try and change it...



Governor Dayton,

I voted for you at your last election. I did this because I felt you were the best individual for the job. I now am very concerned about HF 1467; that last I heard was sitting on your desk awaiting your decision.

I feel that someone should have the rights that this bill covers. I feel that the burden should lie with the criminal not the victim, which is one of this bills proposals. My district senator, Dan Sparks(D), voted for this bill because it is what the majority of his voters felt it was important to them, though his parties views may have differed. I ask that you also make a call based on what the majority of your voters want, not your party.

Lastly I would like to inform you, though I am sure that you are already aware, that even though you are siding with the police chief and sheriffs association's opinion, that believe it or not may have a political pull to their opinion. The overall opinion of professional patrol officers, working the streets that see this first hand, appears to support HF 1467.

I ask you please consider this bill for the law abiding public's safety.

A vote now for HF 1467 creates future votes for Dayton.

Thank you for your time,
A Concerned Voter

ponders
03-05-2012, 12:29
Other than here i dont know where to keep my eye on the status of this bill

keep us posted on his or her decision please and thank you
:wavey:

JK-linux
03-05-2012, 13:29
.....

ponders
03-05-2012, 18:03
^^^^^ i called and asked them to sign it

tim12232
03-05-2012, 18:35
^^^^^ i called and asked them to sign it

Me too, me too! I called and sent an email!

kmb
03-05-2012, 19:46
Vetoed

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/141497673.html

JK-linux
03-05-2012, 20:08
.....

larson1122
03-05-2012, 21:02
Vetoed

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/141497673.html

"The MN Police and Peace Officers Association, the MN Chiefs of Police and the MN Sheriffs Association represent the men and woman who risk their lives every day and night to protect the rest of us. When they strongly oppose a measure, because they believe it will increase the dangers to them in the performance of their duties, I cannot support it," Dayton wrote.

According to Governor Dayton, protection of one's life should be left to law enforcement, because we as law abiding citizens do not have the means or ability to do so.

ponders
03-05-2012, 22:14
*******ING GARBAGE HORSE****!!!!!!!!!!!! :steamed::steamed::steamed::steamed::steamed::steamed:

tim12232
03-05-2012, 22:25
Mark Dayton is a POS and always has been! Believe me, just because I dont live there right now doesnt mean Im not MN at the core!

TBO
03-06-2012, 03:26
Dayton vetoes gun bill

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2012/03/dayton_vetoes_g_1.shtml

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/06/us-minnesota-deadlyforce-veto-idUSTRE82505F20120306

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/dayton-vetoes-shoot-first-bill-mar-5-2012

EAJuggalo
03-06-2012, 07:14
I'm hearing they will not even attempt an overrride, no dem is going to switch in an election year. Looks like it's dead until next year, maybe with a new legislature they can pick up the five extra votes.

TBO
03-06-2012, 11:10
I'm hearing they will not even attempt an overrride, no dem is going to switch in an election year. Looks like it's dead until next year, maybe with a new legislature they can pick up the five extra votes.
No surprise, this is common. The idea is to take it back, make some change(s), resubmit.

The idea is, "Okay, you didn't like it, we'll look at making changes to make it better, here it is all fixed".

Expect some public salesmanship when it's next submitted about "all the work done to fix it up".

ponders
03-06-2012, 11:36
[QUOTE=TheeBadOne;18674126]No surprise, this is common. The idea is to take it back, make some change(s), resubmit.

The idea is, "Okay, you didn't like it, we'll look at making changes to make it better, here it is all fixed".

Expect some public salesmanship when it's next submitted about "all the work done to fix it up".



that is good but the thing is it wont be resubmitted till next year:faint::steamed:

SpamtownG19
03-06-2012, 12:23
This just makes me livid. I want to go on a rant right now but it would be far from coherent. Just another example of liberal politicians not having any courage to have an original thought. I guess it doesn't matter though because they are smarter than the rest of us peons and we should just let them make all the decisions because because they know what's best for us. I want to say that I can't believe the people of Minnesota elected this *****hat, but in retrospect after living here for 17 years, I guess I can....too many passive aggressive, self depricating, dbags!!! Sorry I guess I did rant.

smokintonye
03-06-2012, 21:54
F$%K Mark Dayton! What a spineless Twit!