SW MP15 Sport problems [Archive] - Glock Talk

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fowler
02-20-2012, 18:02
Great rifle ,No problems,no jams,no forward assist,no dust cover, no regrets and no stepping backwards ,no retreat!!

scand
02-20-2012, 18:05
I have heard nothing bad whatsoever about the Sports until today with the other dude's post. I actually picked the Sport over the DPMS Oracle.

TangoFoxtrot
02-21-2012, 08:03
Look I owned a Stag, I own a Colt and a Sport. The Sport performs just as well as my Colt but cost me $1400 less. The only problem I have with my Sport is having more time to shoot it.

Contact
02-22-2012, 20:56
I own a Sport, Love it as well. The other post was the first I've heard of anyone having any problem with it whatsoever, and mine has been flawless.

Made Man
02-23-2012, 05:54
Another Sport owner here, great gun. I love it.

Ronbars
02-23-2012, 09:23
I've heard nothing but good things about these and am eager to pick one up, but it seems no one can keep them in stock!

GRJfer
02-23-2012, 10:14
Love my Sport as well. It shoots great, and is just fun

FriscoCHL
02-23-2012, 10:24
I am going to shoot mine this sunday. A buddy of mine got a new saiga 7.62 the same day I did, so we are both itching to get out and shoot!

FriscoCHL
02-23-2012, 10:27
I've heard nothing but good things about these and am eager to pick one up, but it seems no one can keep them in stock!

The day I picked mine up the LGS had sold 9 sports that day!!! I got the last one he had...

esh325
02-23-2012, 13:45
Look I owned a Stag, I own a Colt and a Sport. The Sport performs just as well as my Colt but cost me $1400 less. The only problem I have with my Sport is having more time to shoot it.
Just my inexperienced opinion. I think if somebody doesn't shoot a whole lot or run their rifle hard, they may never know the difference between buying a higher quality AR15 vs a lower quality AR15. There is also longevity to take into account. A lower quality brand might be able to go hundreds or thousands of rounds, but prematurely fail later on. There is also quality consistency to take into account. X high quality AR15 Brand versus B lower quality brand might put 100 rifles each. X high quality brand has ten defective rifles. B low quality brand has 30 defective rifles. I'm not saying the M&P suffers from this, but it's just something to think about.

Contact
02-23-2012, 17:28
Just my inexperienced opinion. I think if somebody doesn't shoot a whole lot or run their rifle hard, they may never know the difference between buying a higher quality AR15 vs a lower quality AR15. There is also longevity to take into account. A lower quality brand might be able to go hundreds or thousands of rounds, but prematurely fail later on. There is also quality consistency to take into account. X high quality AR15 Brand versus B lower quality brand might put 100 rifles each. X high quality brand has ten defective rifles. B low quality brand has 30 defective rifles. I'm not saying the M&P suffers from this, but it's just something to think about.

Yes and no, because if something is less expensive, it's typically purchased buy more people. More units sold means higher probability of failure. This is why auto manufacturers rate reliability on problems per X number of vehicles sold.

Im sure that Ferrari would love to be able to report that only 200 Ferrari's had to be towed back to the dealer last year, while several hundred thousand Chevys and Fords were in for service, but that by itself doesn't take into account that there are exponentially more Chevys and Fords on the road than Ferrari.

So, eventually there may be plenty of Sports sent back for various issues, but you have to take the "Problems per Rifle" to find the true reliability of these Rifles.

bmoore
02-23-2012, 17:43
I am going to shoot mine this sunday. A buddy of mine got a new saiga 7.62 the same day I did, so we are both itching to get out and shoot!

Tell your friend to check the front site in his Saiga. Mine was canted quite bad. The reason I bought a Saiga was to avoid that so when I was done with my conversion I would have solid rifle. Its going back to the importer tomorrow.

Top_Shot_31
02-23-2012, 18:46
Look I owned a Stag, I own a Colt and a Sport. The Sport performs just as well as my Colt but cost me $1400 less. The only problem I have with my Sport is having more time to shoot it.

You must have bought your 6920 at the height of the election scare. Don't know how you would possibly have gotten your S&W Sport for "$1400 less" since a 6920 is a sub-$1000 rifle anymore.

I'm not doubting you, just kinda looking for clarification; brother's coworker bought an LE6920 in late 2008 for $1,900, and that was a GOOD DEAL at the time.

Bimmer1
02-23-2012, 19:55
Yes and no, because if something is less expensive, it's typically purchased buy more people. More units sold means higher probability of failure. This is why auto manufacturers rate reliability on problems per X number of vehicles sold.

Im sure that Ferrari would love to be able to report that only 200 Ferrari's had to be towed back to the dealer last year, while several hundred thousand Chevys and Fords were in for service, but that by itself doesn't take into account that there are exponentially more Chevys and Fords on the road than Ferrari.

So, eventually there may be plenty of Sports sent back for various issues, but you have to take the "Problems per Rifle" to find the true reliability of these Rifles.


But if you compare reliability to retail pricing in the car market this analogy does not always work. There are many, many more Honda Accords on the road that cost much less than a new Jaguar and the price of the Honda is much , much less. But look at the reliability of the Honda compared to the Jag or many other high end cars. The cheaper Asian cars have proven to be much more reliable than the high end cars of almost any other country of manufacture. Higher price and being "exclusive" does not always mean quality or reliability. An automobile that costs $50,000 plus should have zero issues and even wipe your butt for you but cheaper cars will run circles around them in reliability and long term cost to own.

Contact
02-23-2012, 20:37
But if you compare reliability to retail pricing in the car market this analogy does not always work. There are many, many more Honda Accords on the road that cost much less than a new Jaguar and the price of the Honda is much , much less. But look at the reliability of the Honda compared to the Jag or many other high end cars. The cheaper Asian cars have proven to be much more reliable than the high end cars of almost any other country of manufacture. Higher price and being "exclusive" does not always mean quality or reliability. An automobile that costs $50,000 plus shold have zero issues and even wipe your butt for you but cheaper cars will run circles around them in reliability and long term cost to own.

It actually still works fine, because price isn't the factor we're concerned with. Problems per unit is the equation. Price obviously contributes to the number of units sold, but when you take the price out of it, it still boils down to problems per unit, which is a very fair formula to determine reliability.

So in your example, a Honda Accord would be more reliable than the Jag. If they sell 500,000 Accords and have 15,000 Accords in for service, that's 3% of Accords that went in for service. If they sell 250,000 Jag's, and 15,000 went in for service, that's 6%. Both companies had 15,000 cars in for service, but the Honda is obviously more reliable, since they had twice as many cars in the field that *could* have needed service, but didn't.

Ronbars
02-23-2012, 20:50
The day I picked mine up the LGS had sold 9 sports that day!!! I got the last one he had...

Nice timing! When looking for one, I've found that I can barely get the words "M&P Sport" out of my mouth before getting laughter in return. Hoping to get lucky at the gun show this weekend...

Bimmer1
02-23-2012, 21:21
It actually still works fine, because price isn't the factor we're concerned with. Problems per unit is the equation. Price obviously contributes to the number of units sold, but when you take the price out of it, it still boils down to problems per unit, which is a very fair formula to determine reliability.

So in your example, a Honda Accord would be more reliable than the Jag. If they sell 500,000 Accords and have 15,000 Accords in for service, that's 3% of Accords that went in for service. If they sell 250,000 Jag's, and 15,000 went in for service, that's 6%. Both companies had 15,000 cars in for service, but the Honda is obviously more reliable, since they had twice as many cars in the field that *could* have needed service, but didn't.



But you said, "More units sold means higher probability of failure." Failure shouldn't be based upon the amount sold. It should be based upon factors such as quality control and parts used. Many people argue that it is based upon luxury brand name and for a higher price you get a better product but that is not always true. We keep arguing that the M&P 15 Sport is going to show as a failure once a certain number have been sold and have been used for a certain length of time. That is speculation at best. How many thousands of Smith & Wesson revolvers are out there that have proven to be reliable compared to other brands that sold less over the years but perhaps at a higher price point? Besides, we all should realize that pricing for most items is not based upon the price to produce the item but is based upon researching the market to see how much people are willing to pay for a certain item and/or a certain brand. It's marketing at it's finest. Who's to say a company cannot still make money by offering a cheaper product which is just as good as the higher end product and in the end the company with the cheaper product makes more profit because they sold more units overall and word of mouth spread the good news about the reliability of the product? In the end.....only time will tell. And if there is a political situation that causes an increase in gun pricing again then we will see the M&P Sport selling for $1,000 one day.

cyphertext
02-23-2012, 22:09
Nice timing! When looking for one, I've found that I can barely get the words "M&P Sport" out of my mouth before getting laughter in return. Hoping to get lucky at the gun show this weekend...

Good luck man. I was having the same experience and finally found one. It was not the sub $600 deal that many here were able to get, but I am not wasting time, gas, and $8 to $10 entrance fees to gun shows every weekend now.

Hoping to get to the range this weekend and have an uneventful experience like the OP did. :cool:

TangoFoxtrot
02-24-2012, 07:03
Nice timing! When looking for one, I've found that I can barely get the words "M&P Sport" out of my mouth before getting laughter in return. Hoping to get lucky at the gun show this weekend...

If that laughter was from a LGS I would have said "have a good laugh moron because you just lost a $700+ sale" :upeyes:

Ronbars
02-24-2012, 07:48
Good luck man. I was having the same experience and finally found one. It was not the sub $600 deal that many here were able to get, but I am not wasting time, gas, and $8 to $10 entrance fees to gun shows every weekend now.

Hoping to get to the range this weekend and have an uneventful experience like the OP did. :cool:

Haha I see it like that as well! I'm all for the thrill of the hunt, but once I find one in stock I'm not going to let it go unless they're asking stupid money for it.

Have fun at the range!

Ronbars
02-24-2012, 07:50
If that laughter was from a LGS I would have said "have a good laugh moron because you just lost a $700+ sale" :upeyes:

It wasn't derisive laughter, more like "You and everyone else [is looking for one]." All in good fun. I've been on the receiving end of horrible attitudes before and I don't waste my time with those places.

Contact
02-24-2012, 07:58
But you said, "More units sold means higher probability of failure." Failure shouldn't be based upon the amount sold. It should be based upon factors such as quality control and parts used. Many people argue that it is based upon luxury brand name and for a higher price you get a better product but that is not always true. We keep arguing that the M&P 15 Sport is going to show as a failure once a certain number have been sold and have been used for a certain length of time. That is speculation at best. How many thousands of Smith & Wesson revolvers are out there that have proven to be reliable compared to other brands that sold less over the years but perhaps at a higher price point? Besides, we all should realize that pricing for most items is not based upon the price to produce the item but is based upon researching the market to see how much people are willing to pay for a certain item and/or a certain brand. It's marketing at it's finest. Who's to say a company cannot still make money by offering a cheaper product which is just as good as the higher end product and in the end the company with the cheaper product makes more profit because they sold more units overall and word of mouth spread the good news about the reliability of the product? In the end.....only time will tell. And if there is a political situation that causes an increase in gun pricing again then we will see the M&P Sport selling for $1,000 one day.

My mistake, I should have said "higher potential of failure" not "higher probability of failure."

Yesterday was a long day. LoL

slickt0mmy
02-24-2012, 10:26
I own the Sport as well. I'm actually going out right now to shoot it. haha Great rifle.

I wonder how long it'll be before Javelin wanders in here and posts pictures of his Noveskes.

itstime
02-24-2012, 10:32
Damn you guys. I want to get one of these. Stop talking about them already.

Rick O'Shay
02-24-2012, 16:59
I found a dealer at the Greenville gun show who was selling the Sporter with iron sights and one hi-cap mag for $625. First time past his table, he had 6 of them. Next time there were 4, and I grabbed one, after seeing what the other dealers were charging.

I thoroughly enjoyed my first range session with it, and was shooting head shots on the steel target at 100 yards without optics. For me, the Sporter is among the best rifles I've shot. And, it's much easier on the old neck than my all-time favorite, the Garand.

Made Man
02-24-2012, 17:40
I think that I got $335 in mine.

TangoFoxtrot
02-25-2012, 05:37
I own the Sport as well. I'm actually going out right now to shoot it. haha Great rifle.

I wonder how long it'll be before Javelin wanders in here and posts pictures of his Noveskes.

Oh you know that is going to happen!

JaPes
02-25-2012, 08:40
I wonder how long it'll be before Javelin wanders in here and posts pictures of his Noveskes.

Hey! No picking on Javelin. One day I may get the impetus to buy a top tier AR, and I'll need to ask him questions. :D

Frog1
02-25-2012, 22:09
I don't know why AR's are so expensive anyway. There are only a few manufactures of the basic parts. All the bull???? about the upper tier stuff is absurd. There is not a whole lot of difference from the bargain basement to the glass palace. Anyone with basic ability can repair or modify any AR to be stone cold reliable and accurate.

TangoFoxtrot
02-26-2012, 06:56
Hey! No picking on Javelin. One day I may get the impetus to buy a top tier AR, and I'll need to ask him questions. :D


No we are just breaking his ***** a bit.:supergrin:

Made Man
02-26-2012, 07:28
I meant $635.

TangoFoxtrot
02-26-2012, 08:26
Damn you guys. I want to get one of these. Stop talking about them already.


Hey man you gotta get one for the price you can't go wrong! Just do it! Go out and buy one before the price goes up. The hell with the rent or car payment! Just do it now!:supergrin:

Magelk
02-26-2012, 09:48
I meant $635.

I was gonna say :wow:

Made Man
02-26-2012, 09:52
I wish that was the BIN price. Haha

Ronbars
02-28-2012, 13:00
I'm happy to report that an M&P Sport followed me home from the gun show this weekend! I didn't see any on the main floor, but found two tables right next to each other with one each... way back on a little raised subsection of the floor that I usually don't bother visiting (it's 99% accessories.)

The first guy was asking $699.99 plus tax. He had a couple of people ahead of me asking about it and he wouldn't come off the price. After whining at him for a minute, he said he could knock $10 off. He seemed uninterested in dealing, so I walked away.

Second guy (right next to first guy, and well within earshot) was also asking $699.99 plus tax. I wanted to pay no more than $650 plus tax so I told him that I would do $680 cash out the door, which he agreed to after "checking with the boss." It's more than others have paid, but it was within the range I'd set for myself and I'm happy to have been able to put my paws on one -- they're ludicrously rare in my neck of the woods. I'll be giving it a thorough workout Saturday morning!

SGT67
03-01-2012, 22:53
Picked up mine last week from local shop for 641.00 after tax and paperwork. They get them in pretty often but are out the door just as quick.

Leigh
03-02-2012, 10:12
Picked up mine last week from local shop for 641.00 after tax and paperwork. They get them in pretty often but are out the door just as quick.

Same here ($645 OTD) and from what the smaller shops have told me, S&W has been allocating them, big time.

Small shop with fewer sales = fewer avaialable Sports.

Large volume gun shop guy (one who actually knows his stuff) told me they have sold at least 2 UPS trucks full in just under 2 months and they are still flying off the shelves at $679 (before 6% sales tax)!

Javelin
03-02-2012, 11:00
I own the Sport as well. I'm actually going out right now to shoot it. haha Great rifle.

I wonder how long it'll be before Javelin wanders in here and posts pictures of his Noveskes.

I don't really care what you waste your money on.

:wavey:

Leigh
03-02-2012, 13:46
I don't really care what you waste your money on.

:wavey:

And I would guess that an equal number of people here don't really care for your comments that offer nothing positive.

Why you haven't been banned from GT for being a complete jackass is beyond me.:upeyes:

fastbolt
03-02-2012, 17:40
The M&P15 Sport (like the T model) uses 5r rifling (used in some Thompson/Center products, and remember who owns that equipment now ;) ), has a 1-in-8 twist rate and has received a melonite treatment.

Nice balance of budget features and quality, made by one of America's largest firearms companies, I'd think ...

biscotrip
03-02-2012, 19:55
And I would guess that an equal number of people here don't really care for your comments that offer nothing positive.

Why you haven't been banned from GT for being a complete jackass is beyond me.:upeyes:

+1 Its ridiculous how much sh** he talks. Must think hes God.

Javelin
03-02-2012, 20:01
And I would guess that an equal number of people here don't really care for your comments that offer nothing positive.

Why you haven't been banned from GT for being a complete jackass is beyond me.:upeyes:

Oh I don't know Leigh. Because I am one of the few to call a turd a turd?

The "Just as good" crowd hates me because I don't mind stating that their rifle sucks (DPMS, S&W M&P15, etc).

Naw seriously though. Pimp your rifle out with UTG accessories and Aimpoint clones. It keeps me entertained.

:wavey:

cyphertext
03-02-2012, 20:36
Oh I don't know Leigh. Because I am one of the few to call a turd a turd?

The "Just as good" crowd hates me because I don't mind stating that their rifle sucks (DPMS, S&W M&P15, etc).

Naw seriously though. Pimp your rifle out with UTG accessories and Aimpoint clones. It keeps me entertained.

:wavey:

No, we hate you because you are a pretentious jackass from North Dallas who thinks if you can't afford $2k or more on a rifle that you shouldn't have one.

You came into this thread, which is marked as M&P 15 Sport problems, expecting to point your finger and say "I told you so". You had no other reason to look at this thread, as we already know your opinion of the firearm, which you admit you have not handled or shot. My offer to meet at a local range and let you handle it still stands. I think you are afraid that you would have to admit that it is a decent firearm, for what it is. It is not equal to or built to the same set of specs as your Noveske, and I would not expect it to be for the price difference. But for $600, it is a good sporting gun that can be used for recreational target shooting, hunting, and even home defense if needed.

Javelin
03-02-2012, 20:38
+1 Its ridiculous how much sh** he talks. Must think hes God.

Naw. I was BS'd a long time ago by a bunch of penny pinching folks telling me to buy DPMS, S&W, Armalite, etc. And I listened to them.

But guess what? They sucked. Most I have sold. The higher quality ones I kept. I still own a DPMS SASS .308 that for some reason though. I have 2 gun safes full of black rifles... it is a disease I'm sure.

But the BS gets thick in here and if anyone that is looking to buy their next rifle should know the reality of their decision. For the rest of you that buy these pieces of garbage and then want to tote them like they are great works of art I'm going to call you on it. You know the manufacturers that make great rifles for a pittance more in price. It's not exactly a secret. But if you shoot enough you be upgrading. No question about it and then you will probably shut the hell up about singing the praises of these bottom of the barrel budget build ARs.

:wavey:

Javelin
03-02-2012, 20:41
No, we hate you because you are a pretentious jackass from North Dallas who thinks if you can't afford $2k or more on a rifle that you shouldn't have one.

You came into this thread, which is marked as M&P 15 Sport problems, expecting to point your finger and say "I told you so". You had no other reason to look at this thread, as we already know your opinion of the firearm, which you admit you have not handled or shot. My offer to meet at a local range and let you handle it still stands. I think you are afraid that you would have to admit that it is a decent firearm, for what it is. It is not equal to or built to the same set of specs as your Noveske, and I would not expect it to be for the price difference. But for $600, it is a good sporting gun that can be used for recreational target shooting, hunting, and even home defense if needed.

Interesting. My idea of what an AR is supposed to be and everything that makes an AR great is obviously very different than you and Leigh's. I carried an AR for years in combat. I don't think of them as a tinker toy, but considering the company here on GT it appears most do.