.22 conversion kits [Archive] - Glock Talk

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w30olds
02-21-2012, 11:06
Thinking about getting one for my AR-15. Mainly for ammo costs and for just plinking in the backyard. Anyone done this? If so how do you like it?

Contact
02-21-2012, 11:56
I've thought about doing the conversion route but I finally decided that, for the 400 bucks or so that an M&P15-22 costs, it would be worth it to just have a dedicated .22 rifle. The main reason is to allow me to keep my actual AR clean and shoot the heck out of the .22.

faawrenchbndr
02-21-2012, 12:01
Thinking about getting one for my AR-15. Mainly for ammo costs and for just plinking in the backyard. Anyone done this? If so how do you like it?



It's a great low cost shooting option! I used a CMMG kit
for a few years, then bought a Spikes ST-22 dedicated .22LR
upper. Love it! With the kit, you will get about 2" groups at
50m. The dedicated .22LR uppers have proper rifling and bore
to produce 1" groups at 50m. They arem however, a good bit
more expensive.

Disregarded9-side
02-21-2012, 14:02
I've never used one, but it's interested me. I stay away because I presume there to be an inherently high failure rate.
Did you experience a lot of stoppages FFA?

Boxerglocker
02-21-2012, 15:31
I've thought about doing the conversion route but I finally decided that, for the 400 bucks or so that an M&P15-22 costs, it would be worth it to just have a dedicated .22 rifle. The main reason is to allow me to keep my actual AR clean and shoot the heck out of the .22.

I did the same....went with the M&P 15-22... even use it for local short distance practical rifle and steel matches. Fun, cheap and have it set-up basically just like my other AR's.

mboylan
02-21-2012, 22:51
A dedicated .22 upper will serve you better. 4 MOA is just not that accurate. You should be able to hold better than that in any position except standing.

w30olds
02-23-2012, 14:35
So this morning I picked up the CMMG Evolution .22 kit. Bought a 525 pack of .22LR ammo. Went and tested it out. Shot about 150 rounds and had 2 FTF. It was at the end of the shooting and I admit the rifle was dirty beforehand. Might be the reason for the FTF. The kit was $140 from the gun shop. I bought CCI blazer ammo as I read the Remington stuff causes problems. All in all it's a good little kit and cheap. From 25 yards, or less it shoots really good groups which surprised me. So I'm happy with the kit so far. I'm gonna clean my rifle really good and shoot some more. Hopefully that will help with the FTF issues.

vafish
02-23-2012, 17:03
If you shoot lead bullets instead of the copper washed kind, put you bolt back in and fire 2 or 3 rounds of the real stuff every 200 .22lr.

Otherwise you risk plugging your gas tube.

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Cole125
02-23-2012, 19:33
I would just save the money and get a dedicated AR15 in .22 lr.

Better yet, buy a Ruger 10/22 and a Troy AR Chassis for it. This is by far the best option because the 10/22 action is the most reliable in the .22 world.

http://troyind.com/wp-content/uploads/Troy-Chassis-T-22-Sport-1.jpg

faawrenchbndr
02-23-2012, 19:40
I've never used one, but it's interested me. I stay away because I presume there to be an inherently high failure rate.
Did you experience a lot of stoppages FFA?



I never kept track,.....but I would guess about a 1% failure rate.
Mostly due to crap ammo,........my Spikes really likes Stingers
and Winchester. Does not really care much for Remington

KungFuNerd
02-23-2012, 22:49
I have the Target Master conversion from Black Dog.
It is reasonably accurate out of a 20" 1/9 barrel with Bulk Walmart 550 ammo.

I have only shot it indoors.
Easy to stay on a 25m Zero target at 75 feet (standing).

It probably isn't a precision bench shooting tool.
But I don't want to use a different rifle, different weight, sights, length of pull, trigger etc...I want to get cheap Trigger Time on my 'real rifle'.

Negatives
Double feeds (get good malfunction practice!)
It gets dirty. (get good cleaning practice)

marvin
02-24-2012, 00:29
I have the Target Master conversion from Black Dog.
It is reasonably accurate out of a 20" 1/9 barrel with Bulk Walmart 550 ammo.

I have only shot it indoors.
Easy to stay on a 25m Zero target at 75 feet (standing).

It probably isn't a precision bench shooting tool.
But I don't want to use a different rifle, different weight, sights, length of pull, trigger etc...I want to get cheap Trigger Time on my 'real rifle'.

Negatives
Double feeds (get good malfunction practice!)
It gets dirty. (get good cleaning practice)

i've never had a double feed. what type of mags are you using?

faawrenchbndr
02-24-2012, 08:58
Try a different brand of ammunition.
Nearly all the .22LR conversion issues can be solved with better ammo.

My Spikes does not run well at on on the Federal Bulk 550 ammo.
It likes CCI Stinger, Fiocchi and I have had great luck with Winchester

w30olds
02-24-2012, 09:36
I'm going to try and shoot again today if the weather holds out. Cleaned and oiled my AR last night. Maybe that will help with the FTF issue. The ammo is CCI with 49 grain. So don't believe ammo is th eisse. I'm gonna shoot some .223 to clean out the gas system then shoot some .22

Kinda fun shooting the .22 stuff. It's so quiet. Like a cap gun

w30olds
02-24-2012, 09:38
I would just save the money and get a dedicated AR15 in .22 lr.

Better yet, buy a Ruger 10/22 and a Troy AR Chassis for it. This is by far the best option because the 10/22 action is the most reliable in the .22 world.

http://troyind.com/wp-content/uploads/Troy-Chassis-T-22-Sport-1.jpg

For that price why not just buy another AR-15?

KungFuNerd
02-24-2012, 19:19
Try a different brand of ammunition.
Nearly all the .22LR conversion issues can be solved with better ammo.

My Spikes does not run well at on on the Federal Bulk 550 ammo.
It likes CCI Stinger, Fiocchi and I have had great luck with Winchester

Now that I burned up the 550 I'm going to try a different brand.
I have an Advantage Arms 22 Glock upper that recommends Remington Golden.
Maybe those will work.

I was using the Black Dog Mags.
Kept having to drop the Mag and clear.
Seems to start rough, then smooth out and then start to jam when it gets super dirty.
I've run one box so far.

KungFuNerd
02-24-2012, 19:20
For that price why not just buy another AR-15?

For that price I would get a Nordic dedicated Upper (actually a little cheaper)

Frog1
02-25-2012, 22:56
CMMG kits were designed around Fed 36 grain bulk. That runs well in all of them I have seen. I liked mine, but I went ahead and bought the barrel and built an upper. It is more accurate and a better choice than the M&P.


I had one of those and the flexing of the plastic can cause accuracy problems over time. The other thing that I didn't like was the lightly built bolt and extractor. It is not as robust as the CMMG stuff.

thisaway
02-25-2012, 23:11
I have a Spike's kit, and use it with Black Dog mags. The only ammo I have found that will run 100% is the Federal "Automatch" fodder...which is okay, as I can get it anytime at EvilMart. It gives good groups also. I am unconcerned with the lead bullets as I bought an M16A1 1-12 upper and fire .22s only through it.

Boxerglocker
02-25-2012, 23:29
I had one of those and the flexing of the plastic can cause accuracy problems over time. The other thing that I didn't like was the lightly built bolt and extractor. It is not as robust as the CMMG stuff.

Accuracy in regards to what? I have over 4000 rounds through mine mostly for short distance tactical rifle matches and training. Today I and a buddy ran my M&P 15-22 in a local match over 450 combined in 6 stages. Not a single FTF or FTE. Every other guy in the squad not running a 15-22 but a conversion or dedicated 22 upper choked at least once or twice. The night before I was ringing 8 inch steel with the guys on the range at 200 and with my new 2 moa T1 mounted on it for kicks 2 inch 5 shot groups rested at 100 yards. I run only Blazer 40 grain RN lubed lead. How accurate does a 22lr AR platform have to be?
I thought the real useful purpose of one was as an ammo saver training tool not a bench rest bullseye gun. I personally would rather have 22lr AR that ran reliably in dynamic movement.

Cole125
02-25-2012, 23:52
For that price I would get a Nordic dedicated Upper (actually a little cheaper)

With anything in the firearms world buy once cry once always applies. Buy a $300 10/22 and a $300 Troy stock, you have a ultra reliable, accurate .22 lr AR15 style plinker and trainer that will last.

Boxerglocker
02-26-2012, 00:06
With anything in the firearms world buy once cry once always applies. Buy a $300 10/22 and a $300 Troy stock, you have a ultra reliable, accurate .22 lr AR15 style plinker and trainer that will last.
Only problem I see with this option are the mags are not inline in regards to a similar training platform and the bolt hold option on the last shoot can be problematic.

KungFuNerd
02-28-2012, 09:02
But then you have a $600 trainer that isn't the same weight, doesn't have the same trigger, doesn't load/feed the same way......

Using my .22 conversion bolt I have the same Trigger, same Sights, the only weight difference is a few ounces in the bolt and the reduced weight of .22 ammo.
The manual of arms is the same.
The Charging handle doesn't pull back quite as far.

All that said....will it be as accurate?
No.
But I don't consider an AR to be a Bullseye Match rifle even though they are capable of it.

The 25m Zeroing target is 3" tall and 1.5 wide (center circle is 1.5").
I had no trouble keeping rounds in that target shooting offhand and most were in the circle and I'm a beginner with Rifle.

deputy tom
02-28-2012, 15:45
Thinking about getting one for my AR-15. Mainly for ammo costs and for just plinking in the backyard. Anyone done this? If so how do you like it?

For $150.00 the CMMG bolt kit is a good deal especially for plinking. It won't take long before it is paid for in ammo cost savings. After that it is free. I know of four guys that swear by them. I'm sure if tack driving accuracy is your goal then a dedicated upper would be a better choice. At least with either you will be working the same trigger,weight/balance , grip,lop, etc. with your original lower.tom.:cool:

Gunnut 45/454
02-28-2012, 17:59
I have the CMMG kit works very well! Best accuracy has been in my 1:9" twist DPMS, shoots fair in my PSA 1:7" normal parctice range- 25-50 yards.:supergrin:

Frog1
02-29-2012, 05:51
Accuracy in regards to what? I have over 4000 rounds through mine mostly for short distance tactical rifle matches and training. Today I and a buddy ran my M&P 15-22 in a local match over 450 combined in 6 stages. Not a single FTF or FTE. Every other guy in the squad not running a 15-22 but a conversion or dedicated 22 upper choked at least once or twice. The night before I was ringing 8 inch steel with the guys on the range at 200 and with my new 2 moa T1 mounted on it for kicks 2 inch 5 shot groups rested at 100 yards. I run only Blazer 40 grain RN lubed lead. How accurate does a 22lr AR platform have to be?
I thought the real useful purpose of one was as an ammo saver training tool not a bench rest bullseye gun. I personally would rather have 22lr AR that ran reliably in dynamic movement.
It's hell to be an accuracy snob. If your rifle can't hold at least 2 moa at 100 yds, you might as well carry a pistol. M1 Carbine or AK will work for you. Maybe that's why the spray and pray is so prevalent now. The Smith is a great little gun that weighs half as much as a real AR and flexes at the bench. To each his own.

w30olds
03-10-2012, 15:30
So I've been using the kit for about a week now. Seems the CCI value pack does not function well. I bought the Federal value pack and tried that out today. So far no issues. I read the Federal is what they recommend. So far I'm happy with the kit. Accuracy is decent. Not a tack driver as to be expected, but fun to shoot.

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dudel
03-11-2012, 06:11
I think you're better off with a dedicated upper than with just a conversion kit. The twist for 22lr is very different than for most weights of .223 projectile. Plus the bore size is different between the two. Plus, since a 22lr is much dirtier, you end up with a dirtier gas system to clean.

I went with a Tactical Solutions upper, and it's been great. To keep the .223 clean, I ended up building another lower.

Shoots quite well. Much better than some of the 22lr conversions I've tried running in a .223/5.56 upper.

shadow65
03-11-2012, 09:16
In my testing, I have found the CMMG stainless to be very reliable. Accuracy will vary not due to the kit but to the barrel and ammo choice. Find what your rifle likes.
I always recommend copper wash ammo. It keeps the bore and feed ramp cleaner, longer.
I also use 1-2 drops of lube per rail on the stainless. Don't over lube. It will just attract gunk.
I like the Winchester 555 bulk copper wash 36 gr. from Walmart for blasting.
CCI Mini Mags will give better accuracy.
CMMG is constantly up grading these.
Now there is the Bravo which has a brass chamber insert.
The India has a brass locking lug that locks into the 5.56 chamber for nearly 0 movement of the BCG.
Black Dog mags have been known to cause empties in the charging handle due to the feed lips being slightly long. They can be trimmed back slightly.
The new Gen ll CMMG modular mags have steel feed towers/lips and are easy to load. Plus they are expandable for capacity.
I just received a 35 round set up for testing.
The BHOA can be a PITA in my opinion. It does work but due to the different tolerances from one lower/upper to another, it can be iffy. I use mine more manually to lock the bolt and really don't care about the last round bolt lock.
Dave N

KungFuNerd
03-11-2012, 09:16
MyTarget Master Kit from Black Dog recommends Round Nose and to "stay away from Hollowpoints".

I need to pick up some and see.
Federal 550 Walmart doesn't feed reliably.
Remington Gold might be slightly better (both Hollowpoints)

tower59
03-11-2012, 20:12
I've just realized how expensive 5.56 ammo is. Ouch. At 33 cents or more a pop, training adds up! However, I absolutely don't want to practice on a dedicated .22LR and not be training with the trigger, optics, weight, length of pull, etc. of my "real" AR. So, the insert makes perfect sense.

So, for you guys in the know, does the CMMG conversion damage the rifle in any way? What specific, exact steps are needed to keep the rifle working well back in 5.56 mode? What needs to be cleaned or lubed? How much of a zero-ing difference is there? Many thanks!

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 20:14
I've just realized how expensive 5.56 ammo is. Ouch. At 33 cents or more a pop, training adds up! However, I absolutely don't want to practice on a dedicated .22LR and not be training with the trigger, optics, weight, length of pull, etc. of my "real" AR. So, the insert makes perfect sense.

So, for you guys in the know, does the CMMG conversion damage the rifle in any way? What specific, exact steps are needed to keep the rifle working well back in 5.56 mode? What needs to be cleaned or lubed? How much of a zero-ing difference is there? Many thanks!

The poor bullet-to-bore fit can cause additional barrel wear over time with high volume shooting.

Keep the .22 kit lubed, as they tend to need it.

Be careful with lighter triggers - I was using a kit borrowed from a friend, and experienced an OOB while shooting double-taps. It might have been related to the time between shots, or it might not have - but I personally think it contributed to it. That OOB was NOT a pleasant experience.

Steve34
05-12-2012, 13:14
Here is my kit. (CMMG)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FquUx4-xjFM

Titurel
05-13-2012, 17:45
I've been using a Ciener kit for a long time. With my 1:9 twist barrel I can get acceptable accuracy for offhand shooting (.5-.75" groups at 25yds) which is my main use for this kit. Using the 60gr Aguila SSS rounds I can shoot 1" groups at 100 yards off a bipod. It does seem that results are generally not as good with a 1:7 twist barrel.

It takes some patience and persistence to get the kits running well, but it is well worth the effort. It is a pleasure to train with my AR for an hour and spend <$20 on ammo. The CMMG magazines are really good. After years of suffering with the crappy way-overpriced Ciener mags I am happy to have a nice pile of these new magazines.

It is especially important to keep the chamber absolutely free of residue build up. The crud that gets deposited there is essentially baked-on and will not come off with a couple of patches soaked in CLP. I have used pieces of wood and plastic to scrape it out, also a brush chucked in a drill and some yellow lead removing cloth. Then inspect the chamber with a bore light.

I am a big fan of the 10/22 but find the Nordic shell and the like to be of little use. They do not come close to replicating a real AR. An MP-1522 would be nice, but I'd rather put my money towards a real AR15 lower and either get a dedicated upper or a conversion. They may be slightly less reliable than the MP, but that's ok for a training and fun rifle.

Out of Battery ignitions do happen with the conversion kits. It is rare, but not that rare. Based on my own experience and what I've read from others I would give a very rough estimate that on average it happens once every 1-2k rounds. I love my kit and use it all the time, but I would never, ever fire one without eye protection.

Markasaurus
05-19-2012, 00:50
I got the Targetmaster .22 LR conversion kit from amazon for $138.46 all. I have put 1000 rounds through it with zero malfunctions. It uses the black dog mag same as the CMMG unit. I have seen the CMMG and it looks very similar, amazon does not stock the targetmaster unit anymore but cheaperthendirt does, for $150.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ARR590-1.html

I see no reason to buy another rifle or even an upper to shoot .22 LR. the only problem is possible fouling of the barrel and gas tube. You are supposed to shoot a regular 5.56/.223 round out the barrel every 350-500 rounds to clear out the gas tube but sometimes it's not possible to do this due to range restrictions etc.
After a range session I use the long pipe cleaners (gas tube cleaners) and hose out the tube with brake cleaner. Then i use lead away cloths cut into patches and kroil to try and get the lead out of the bore. Considering the savings in ammo costs to me its worth the extra time to clean, i don't shoot that much.

I have used only federal 36 grain copper washed hollow points. This is roughly what they recommend and it works. The copper wash is supposed to help prevent barrel leading but the key word is "help". Those patches come out dark for way too long. In my opinion most of the chemicals are useless. Kroil (sprayed on right before the gun hits the trunk after the range), hoppe's lead remover, name it, i've tried it. You can either push patches out until you are bored to death and forget it or seek some other solution like electro-chemical, mercury, etc.

I researched this issue a bit and the total answer seems to be remove the lead using mostly elbow grease. "Chore boy" copper pad strands onto an expendable brush, cuts out the lead and is softer then the metal in the bore. I have yet to try them but i'd give it 10-15 strokes and call it a day for the bore cleaning.

Steve34
05-26-2012, 17:52
The 1:7 barrel is not that great for a .22lr conversion, but It's not that bad.

Test shots CMMG .22lr semi-automatic conversion kit - 5.56 1:7 barrel - YouTube

I think with heavier bullet and some practicing, I can get best results with it.

pgg00
05-31-2012, 08:34
I have a couple thousand rounds so far with my CMMG kit. Works great. Only jams I've had were from the ammo.

Airhasz
05-31-2012, 14:03
The 1:7 barrel is not that great for a .22lr conversion, but It's not that bad.

Test shots CMMG .22lr semi-automatic conversion kit - 5.56 1:7 barrel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEWRI1-USjw)

I think with heavier bullet and some practicing, I can get best results with it.

That gravel pit on Roods Lk Rd looks familiar:wow:

Bow Commander
05-31-2012, 14:23
It's hell to be an accuracy snob. If your rifle can't hold at least 2 moa at 100 yds, you might as well carry a pistol. M1 Carbine or AK will work for you. Maybe that's why the spray and pray is so prevalent now. The Smith is a great little gun that weighs half as much as a real AR and flexes at the bench. To each his own.

+1

<---- shoots benchrest competitively.
<---- owned a 15-22 for a month, noticed accuracy was not acceptable even off hand shooting. Sold 15-22.

Maybe they have got better. Mine was an early one, didn't have a comp.