Gen 2 G19 is slam firing [Archive] - Glock Talk

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GoBigOrange
02-21-2012, 14:37
So I have been looking for a Gen 2 G19 for months. I finally found one one Sunday. It was listed here in the classifieds.

Once I got home I took out the horrid NY1 trigger spring and put the original trigger spring back in. This is where it got scary. I noticed that 50% of the time I dry fired it the trigger would pull as it should and the firing pin would fall but the other 50% of the time the trigger would pull but the firing pin would not fall.

I took it to a local Glock armorer here in Orlando and I explained the problem He started to dry fire it and his eyes got pretty big when he realized the gun was slam firing when he racked the slide. Not only that, but he said it would go full auto if I were to try and shoot it.

He took it apart and tried replacing everything. Long story short, no matter what he replaced the problem continued. He said this was the first Glock in 11 years of working in the store that he has been unable to diagnose the problem. He flat out said the gun was dangerous and that it needed to go back to Glock.He didn't even feel comfortable having it in the store. I'm pretty pissed that the member here on Glocktalk would knowingly trade me a dangerous gun.:steamed: I am so thankful I didn't load this thing in my apartment.

I left a message with Glock and I am praying they will fix it without costing me a fortune.

tonyparson
02-21-2012, 14:40
Oh ya Glock will fix it. I doubt they will charge you to fix it too..

GoBigOrange
02-21-2012, 14:43
Oh ya Glock will fix it. I doubt they will charge you to fix it too..

I hope. I certainly wouldn't blame them if they did because someone has obviously screwed with this gun. It certainly isn't Glock's fault.

Any idea how much it will cost to ship a gun?

8th ID
02-21-2012, 15:11
Shipping prices will vary depending on who is doing the shipping. IF you can get an FFL daler to ship it for you, that would be much cheaper. In my area I have paid as much as $70!!!! FedEx will ship but I was told it MUST go overnight.

eclark53520
02-21-2012, 15:14
Obviously there is something terribly wrong with the firing pin block.

Glockdude1
02-21-2012, 15:18
Obviously there is something terribly wrong with the firing pin block.

:agree:

3/4Flap
02-21-2012, 15:21
Maybe it is one of those ultra rare G18 1/2's.

Full auto in a pocket pistol... ;)

Seriously, send the gun back to Glock for repair/replacement.

Bruce M
02-21-2012, 15:23
Maybe it is one of those ultra rare G18 1/2's...

. That right there is THE Holy Grail of Glocks

bentbiker
02-21-2012, 15:41
OP, did you by any chance remove the FP safety plunger while you were changing out the NY1 spring? Regardless, have you checked the FP safety plunger spring to see if it is properly seated in the plunger? It should be locked in the plunger.

Melissa5
02-21-2012, 15:51
Wow! I'm glad you caught that before you tried it with ammo. Sorry you got a messed up gun. Keep us posted about what Glock does to it.

JBP55
02-21-2012, 15:58
Check the safety plunger and spring for proper installation as well as the trigger bar and firing pin for proper contact..

GoBigOrange
02-21-2012, 16:02
OP, did you by any chance remove the FP safety plunger while you were changing out the NY1 spring? Regardless, have you checked the FP safety plunger spring to see if it is properly seated in the plunger? It should be locked in the plunger.


I didn't touch the safety plunger at all. For what it's worth guys, the armorer took the slide completely apart and changed out the firing pin..It still did not solve the issue.

Priapism
02-21-2012, 16:14
"He took it apart and tried replacing everything. "

I doubt that he did this.

GoBigOrange
02-21-2012, 16:28
"He took it apart and tried replacing everything. "

I doubt that he did this.

Ok, and why is that? I was standing right next to him watching and discussing as we worked through it.

Re replaced the trigger spring, trigger housing, trigger bar, firing pin, the plunger for the extractor.. etc etc.

Priapism
02-21-2012, 16:39
Because if he replaced everything it would have fixed it.

SCC
02-21-2012, 17:30
does it have the + trigger bar in it ?

Check my Gat
02-21-2012, 17:42
+1 that he did not replace everything.

And if you're having an undiagnosed safety issue, that is what you need to do. Replacing everything is the A-bomb of maintenance and should solve all issues assuming your slide and frame are intact everytime.

Atomic Punk
02-21-2012, 17:53
very interested in what the cause is. if you dont figure it out before it goes to glock. i hope they actually tell you.

ijacek
02-21-2012, 18:47
Did he happen to check the proper engagement of the trigger bar against the firing pin? Done with the use of the orange slide cover plate.

bentbiker
02-21-2012, 18:59
He didn't even feel comfortable having it in the store. I'm pretty pissed that the member here on Glocktalk would knowingly trade me a dangerous gun.:steamed:
Why didn't he feel comfortable with it in the store? Sounds a bit melodramatic.

As for as the GT member "knowingly" trading you a defective gun . . . did it exhibit the problem before you changed the trigger spring?

Dewberry
02-21-2012, 19:02
post to see if you find out the problem eventually

lehigh
02-21-2012, 19:18
Why didn't he feel comfortable with it in the store? Sounds a bit melodramatic.


Ibelieve there are court cases of a gun(s) that slam fires to be prosecuted as anautomatic weapon by the ATF. I don't know if it's true.
Lehigh...

voyager4520
02-21-2012, 19:21
does it have the + trigger bar in it ?
Exactly what I was going to ask, if the serial number of the G19 is before the EH prefix you need to use the "pre-EH G19 trigger bar", it should have a + marking on the cruciform. If you don't use that trigger bar in a G19 that has that early serial number prefix, there won't be enough engagement between the trigger bar sear and the firing pin lug.

Pre-EH G19 trigger bar: http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=7121&CAT=750

It should have a + marking where you see "4256" and "4256-1" in the following picture:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j18/Skintop911/4256%20Trigger%20Bar/IMG_4983.jpg

G23Gen4TX
02-21-2012, 19:28
I bet you it's a problem that would take 5 minutes to fix for someone who is competent armorer. Probably a disconnector issue as it sounds like the disconnector does not pop the trigger bar up to catch the firing pin leg. A simple check with the orange back plate will confirm what is going on.

plouffedaddy
02-21-2012, 19:33
" A simple check with the orange back plate will confirm what is going on."

That's my thought as well.

GoBigOrange
02-21-2012, 19:48
Tell me more about the orange back plate. This is the first I've heard of it. I don't claim to be an armorer, that's why I took the gun to one. I'd love to fix this on my own but the gun needs to go to Glock anyways for a parts upgrade. It still has the black parts inside.

GaryC
02-21-2012, 20:02
Tell me more about the orange back plate. This is the first I've heard of it. I don't claim to be an armorer, that's why I took the gun to one. I'd love to fix this on my own but the gun needs to go to Glock anyways for a parts upgrade. It still has the black parts inside.

http://glockparts.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=7287&TERM=orange%20plate

Butch
02-21-2012, 21:33
Tell us what the serial number prefix is!

If it's pre EH, and does not have a + trigger bar in it, that is probably what's wrong. Lots of people don't want the G19's grooved 'target' trigger and swap it out for a G17 trigger....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/Kickuptriggerbar.jpg

Either way, a + trigger bar might be the fix.

bustedknee
02-21-2012, 22:58
I didn't touch the safety plunger at all. For what it's worth guys, the armorer took the slide completely apart and changed out the firing pin..It still did not solve the issue.


The Armorer replaced all the parts and it still had the problem?

Sounds like you got a defective frame. :animlol:

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 05:09
Tell us what the serial number prefix is!

If it's pre EH, and does not have a + trigger bar in it, that is probably what's wrong. Lots of people don't want the G19's grooved 'target' trigger and swap it out for a G17 trigger....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/Kickuptriggerbar.jpg

Either way, a + trigger bar might be the fix.

The serial number starts with DW---This may explain the problem. You're saying that just by putting in this + trigger bar might solve the problem? That would be great.

I just checked. The trigger bar does not have a +. It doesn't have any numbers on it either.

DannyR
02-22-2012, 05:16
9mm trigger bars generally have no numbers on them. Just get a "+" trigger bar installed and you will be OK. Glock Warranty Service will send one only to a Certified Glock Armorer. If you would rather Glock repair it free of charge, contact Warranty Service Department at 1-770-432-1202 for shipping instructions.

Butch
02-22-2012, 05:53
The serial number starts with DW---This may explain the problem. You're saying that just by putting in this + trigger bar might solve the problem? That would be great.
Is the trigger smooth? Or grooved?

It's possible that the gun was 'upgraded' by someone who was unaware that it needed the + trigger bar.

Upgrade parts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/FPupgradeparts.jpg

The original trigger bar extension would have been flat on top:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/ButchG17/Glock%20pics/Triggers.jpg


I just checked. The trigger bar does not have a +. It doesn't have any numbers on it either.
It is also possible that the trigger bar that was in it was the original/correct one and was altered/polished/worn enough to be defective.....and it would not have been marked with the +.....they didn't mark them that way till after prefix EH.

If the gun has all new style(upgraded) parts with no + on the trigger bar, it was upgraded with the wrong parts, and could easily cause the troubles you're having.

Have the armorer contact Glock to get a 'pre EH' upgrade kit, or take the gun to a GSSF match to have the factory armorer there work it, or send it to Glock.

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 06:11
The gun still has all the original black parts inside and the trigger is grooved, not smooth.

I'll have to take it to a different armorer as the guy who worked on it didn't want to mess with it. He was probably being overly dramatic but he said the gun was too dangerous.

DannyR
02-22-2012, 06:47
There is a GSSF match in Griffin, GA this weekend. A factory armorer will be there. Map and details at www.gssfonline.com

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 07:11
There is a GSSF match in Griffin, GA this weekend. A factory armorer will be there. Map and details at www.gssfonline.com

I wish that was closer. That's 7 hours from me. I'm driving back home to Knoxville in a few weeks so I may just stop by Glock HQ on my way.

DannyR
02-22-2012, 08:11
Great. Glock in Smyrna will have your pistol updated, tested and returned to you in under an hour. If you will be in Knoxville in June, the GSSF match is on the first weekend.

MajorD
02-22-2012, 08:24
perhaps it would have been fine had you not took the ny trigger spring out first thing? the one thing I always emphasize to everyone regarless of the type of gun-try it as is first -if it works do nothing- trying to fix what is not broke may be what started this in the first place

Bren
02-22-2012, 08:45
Sounds like you bought a gun with a professional Glocktalker "25 cent trigger job." :rofl:

It isn't uncommon for them to end up costing a lot more than 25 cents, but it should be an easy repair, if you take it to a more knowledgeable repairman. From what you wrote, I'd avoid that armorer.

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 09:34
perhaps it would have been fine had you not took the ny trigger spring out first thing? the one thing I always emphasize to everyone regarless of the type of gun-try it as is first -if it works do nothing- trying to fix what is not broke may be what started this in the first place

True but I hated the NY1 spring.

Dogue
02-22-2012, 10:05
The gun still has all the original black parts inside and the trigger is grooved, not smooth.

I'll have to take it to a different armorer as the guy who worked on it didn't want to mess with it. He was probably being overly dramatic but he said the gun was too dangerous.
I think I'd avoid this guy. Unless springs are flying out of it I'm not sure how an unloaded gun is too dangerous. :upeyes:

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 10:17
I think I'd avoid this guy. Unless springs are flying out of it I'm not sure how an unloaded gun is too dangerous. :upeyes:

I agree. I'm looking for a different armorer in the Orlando area but I'm starting to think it would just be best to send the gun back to Glock.

Taurus851
02-22-2012, 10:23
apparently i didn't know what the definition of slam firing was until i looked it up

H&K 4 LIFE
02-22-2012, 10:49
The first thing that should have been done was the engagement checked between the cruciform of the trigger bar and the firing pin lug using the orange inspection plate.

The "+" trigger bar was a thought, but your Glock is not the same as the serial pre-fix that required that fix. Even still, this may be a viable solution to achieve proper engagement in your particular pistol.

It sure would be interesting to see if the pistol functions any differently with the NY-1 spring installed. My only thinking in this is that the NY springs actually push upwards on the trigger bar, which may serve in somewhat correcting poor engagement, whereas the standard trigger spring only pulls the trigger bar rearward and provides no upward tension on the trigger bar. Further thoughts on that theory from other members are welcome.

However, that still really wouldn't explain failure of the firing pin safety that would allow the pistol to slam-fire. :dunno:

I'd probably just send this problem child back to Glock.

GaryC
02-22-2012, 10:51
I'd probably just send this problem child back to Glock.

A no brainer IMHO.

Butch
02-22-2012, 19:20
The "+" trigger bar was a thought, but your Glock is not the same as the serial pre-fix that required that fix. Even still, this may be a viable solution to achieve proper engagement in your particular pistol.
ABCDEFG.....yup, 'DW' would be 'pre-EH'. :)


It sure would be interesting to see if the pistol functions any differently with the NY-1 spring installed. My only thinking in this is that the NY springs actually push upwards on the trigger bar, which may serve in somewhat correcting poor engagement, whereas the standard trigger spring only pulls the trigger bar rearward and provides no upward tension on the trigger bar. Further thoughts on that theory from other members are welcome.
Yup, the increased upward pressure provided by the NY spring could indeed make up for poor/defective(polished or worn) engagement.


However, that still really wouldn't explain failure of the firing pin safety that would allow the pistol to slam-fire. :dunno:
I think since the gun has apparently NOT 'slam fired', use of the term 'slam fired' may not be correct here.

Even though the firing pin was apparently not retracted when the slide closed, that does not mean the gun slam-fired.....it would have to be loaded and go 'bang' to have 'slam-fired'.....by virtue of the fact that it apparently did not do so, we do not know that the firing pin safety would not have done its job correctly and prevented a slam-fire as designed.


I'd probably just send this problem child back to Glock.
That would be the simple solution! But in my ongoing opinion that handgun owners are being ripped off by UPS and FedEx by forcing us to ship overnight (for big bucks) so their employees don't steal guns, I encourage the hand delivery option by the OP!

mrsurfboard
02-22-2012, 19:31
I thought Glocks were so easy to work on, that any idiot can strip it down and fix it. At least that's what I read from the fanboys on here.

SCC
02-22-2012, 19:37
ABCDEFG.....yup, 'DW' would be 'pre-EH'. :)



Yup, the increased upward pressure provided by the NY spring could indeed make up for poor/defective(polished or worn) engagement.



I think since the gun has apparently NOT 'slam fired', use of the term 'slam fired' may not be correct here.

Even though the firing pin was apparently not retracted when the slide closed, that does not mean the gun slam-fired.....it would have to be loaded and go 'bang' to have 'slam-fired'.....by virtue of the fact that it apparently did not do so, we do not know that the firing pin safety would not have done its job correctly and prevented a slam-fire as designed.



That would be the simple solution! But in my ongoing opinion that handgun owners are being ripped off by UPS and FedEx by forcing us to ship overnight (for big bucks) so their employees don't steal guns, I encourage the hand delivery option by the OP!
that's it !!! take it to glock and let them fix that gun ... like danny said they will fix you up in no time ... :wavey:

SCC
02-22-2012, 19:39
I thought Glocks were so easy to work on, that any idiot can strip it down and fix it. At least that's what I read from the fanboys on here.
they are !!!!
but you have to put the right parts back in them so they will work 100% :whistling:

DeLo
02-22-2012, 19:43
Where in Otown did you take it??

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 19:58
Where in Otown did you take it??

Reig's. Really nice guys there.

I think I'm going to see if Dick at East Orange Shooting Sports can fix it. I spoke to him earlier and he didn't seem to think it would be a difficult fix. It will cost me almost $70 to ship to Glock and I have to wait for 4-6 weeks according to them.

Butch
02-22-2012, 20:16
It will cost me almost $70 to ship to Glock and I have to wait for 4-6 weeks according to them.
1. If you have a gun dealer that will do it, they can ship via the USPS much cheaper than you can ship via UPS & FedEx. You cannot ship handguns via USPS at all.

2. Did you ask Glock about bringing it in yourself? Doing so normally results in its being fixed while you wait....

GoBigOrange
02-22-2012, 20:19
1. If you have a gun dealer that will do it, they can ship via the USPS much cheaper than you can ship via UPS & FedEx. You cannot ship handguns via USPS at all.

2. Did you ask Glock about bringing it in yourself? Doing so normally results in its being fixed while you wait....

1) I did not realize that. I will look into it!

2) I live 7 hours from Smyrna GA. I am passing through there in a few weeks but unfortunately it will be on the weekend and they only let people drop by Monday-Friday. Unfortunate timing. I've stopping once before and it was a neat experience.

Dewberry
04-11-2012, 22:48
did you ever get it fixed?

TSAX
04-11-2012, 23:37
:popcorn:








:50cal:

8th ID
04-12-2012, 06:58
You cannot ship handguns via USPS at all.


Don't know if the OP has gotten the gun to Glock. But a FFL can ship handguns through the USPS. Cheapest way, if Glock isn't going to pay would be go to a FFL and have them ship it to Glock through USPS.

LongGoneDays
04-12-2012, 08:28
Wait, you not only found a 2nd Gen Glock 19, which in my opinion is probably the best handgun of all time, and it is full auto.

I fail to see what the problem is :rofl:

stolenphot0
04-12-2012, 08:55
Wait, you not only found a 2nd Gen Glock 19, which in my opinion is probably the best handgun of all time, and it is full auto.

I fail to see what the problem is :rofl:

cost of ammo these days :supergrin:

Glockdude1
04-12-2012, 09:00
Wait, you not only found a 2nd Gen Glock 19, which in my opinion is probably the best handgun of all time, and it is full auto.

I fail to see what the problem is :rofl:

All he needs now is 33rd Mags!!

:cool:

GlockGil
04-12-2012, 13:17
I would love to own a full auto Glock! Legally of course!


That would be the simple solution! But in my ongoing opinion that handgun owners are being ripped off by UPS and FedEx by forcing us to ship overnight (for big bucks) so their employees don't steal guns, I encourage the hand delivery option by the OP![/QUOTE]

The reason Fedex says you can only ship overnight is because its considered a dangerous goods shipment, hence the higher charges. Paperwork w DG has to be spot on w no mistakes. All DG has to be overnight. Fedex does not want these products sitting somewhere any longer than they should, and would much rather these items off their hands quickly.If DG goes undeclared it means big fines for Fedex. Then they will turn around and sue the customer who shipped it. Not because employees steal the guns. Only the DG person who receives the item plus the driver and the hub in Memphis, once its scanned, know whats in the box, but could be handled by over 50 ppl before it reaches its destination. As a former driver i take offense to saying its because employees steal is why they charge more when its because of the type of item , plus paperwork involved, and fuel surcharges!



Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

thedave8
04-12-2012, 18:56
my 2nd gen g20 was upgraded by Leatherknecker here on the boards.....(thanks again Dave!) He is in the Orlando area and is an armorer.....He was even kind enough to swing by my house in Ormond Beach while he was in town on business to upgrade my 20......I still owe you lunch or something for that ,Dave!!!

fortyofforty
04-12-2012, 20:29
I think I'd avoid this guy. Unless springs are flying out of it I'm not sure how an unloaded gun is too dangerous. :upeyes:

Mayor Bloomberg and Senator Schumer said guns are super dangerous and way scary, even by themselves, laying on a table. :supergrin:

Butch
04-12-2012, 22:43
The reason Fedex says you can only ship overnight is because its considered a dangerous goods shipment, hence the higher charges. Paperwork w DG has to be spot on w no mistakes. All DG has to be overnight. Fedex does not want these products sitting somewhere any longer than they should, and would much rather these items off their hands quickly.If DG goes undeclared it means big fines for Fedex. Then they will turn around and sue the customer who shipped it. Not because employees steal the guns. Only the DG person who receives the item plus the driver and the hub in Memphis, once its scanned, know whats in the box, but could be handled by over 50 ppl before it reaches its destination. As a former driver i take offense to saying its because employees steal is why they charge more when its because of the type of item , plus paperwork involved, and fuel surcharges!
No offense is intended towards you or any other specific FedEx or UPS employee Gil, I'm sure the large majority of their employees are honest and conscientious about their work, but facts are facts, there is NOTHING about an unloaded handgun that is any more dangerous than an unloaded long gun until it's stolen! And theft is most certainly the reason they started requiring overnight shipment....which costs more.

No doubt the info you gave above is what they told you, and it sure does make a nice sounding excuse, but the reason for it is theft, and unless they leave packages unattended and/or unsecured in places where non-employees have access to them...... :dunno:

Now, you say they can be fined for failing to detect 'undeclared DG's'. Fined by who? Per what 'law'?

AustinTx
04-13-2012, 00:35
No offense is intended towards you or any other specific FedEx or UPS employee Gil, I'm sure the large majority of their employees are honest and conscientious about their work, but facts are facts, there is NOTHING about an unloaded handgun that is any more dangerous than an unloaded long gun until it's stolen! And theft is most certainly the reason they started requiring overnight shipment....which costs more.

No doubt the info you gave above is what they told you, and it sure does make a nice sounding excuse, but the reason for it is theft, and unless they leave packages unattended and/or unsecured in places where non-employees have access to them...... :dunno:

Now, you say they can be fined for failing to detect 'undeclared DG's'. Fined by who? Per what 'law'?

I have had that verified as a FACT, over the years, from several sources.

Glock tells you to not put their full name, on the address label, for the same reason. It's sorta like a sign that says "Steal Me".

Pier23
04-13-2012, 02:56
The first thing that should have been done was the engagement checked between the cruciform of the trigger bar and the firing pin lug using the orange inspection plate.



i too am confused by what the orange inspection plate does...does the back of the plate mark an impression of some kind?

voyager4520
04-13-2012, 03:26
Glock tells you to not put their full name, on the address label, for the same reason. It's sorta like a sign that says "Steal Me".
When Glock sent a magazine spring to me, the return address was simply "G I", for Glock Inc.

i too am confused by what the orange inspection plate does...does the back of the plate mark an impression of some kind?
It allows you to check the engagement between the firing pin lug and trigger bar. With the slide forward and the trigger forward, it's recommended that at least 2/3 of the trigger bar tab should be obscured by the firing pin lug. Here's a post with a diagram showing it in more detail:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16411468&postcount=4

fortyofforty
04-13-2012, 04:40
i too am confused by what the orange inspection plate does...does the back of the plate mark an impression of some kind?

No, what it does is allow you to look through the back of the slide and see the inner workings (which, in this case, is the engagement of the firing pin spur and trigger cruciform).

GoBigOrange
04-13-2012, 05:14
I got the gun back from Smyrna on Wednesday, almost 6 weeks after I mailed it off.
I asked to have the slide refinished while it was there and man, did they do a piss poor job.
It honestly doesn't look like they did anything to the slide. I called Glock and they gave me a refund for the refinish.

As to the function, it looks like they replaced every part. On the invoice it just said: 1) upgrade completed(or something similar) 2)meets factory spec


I plan on going to the range tomorrow, I'm sure it will shoot just fine.

voyager4520
04-13-2012, 05:31
Wow. Thanks for the update. I'm glad I got my slide refinished aftermarket.

DocWills
04-13-2012, 05:55
Just for the benefit of anyone not familiar with Glock upgrades. There area lot of unofficial glock armorers that sometimes put in the wrong part or miss a tech bulletin. Its one thing to let someone change out a mag release or a slide release or put on sights but actual fire control parts ought to be done by a real gunsmith.

stolenphot0
04-13-2012, 06:36
I got the gun back from Smyrna on Wednesday, almost 6 weeks after I mailed it off.
I asked to have the slide refinished while it was there and man, did they do a piss poor job.
It honestly doesn't look like they did anything to the slide. I called Glock and they gave me a refund for the refinish.

As to the function, it looks like they replaced every part. On the invoice it just said: 1) upgrade completed(or something similar) 2)meets factory spec


I plan on going to the range tomorrow, I'm sure it will shoot just fine.

Glad you got it back.

Send it to me and I'll refinish it. I have some nail polish somewhere... I'm a poorfessional. ;) Sorry they bunked your refinish job though.

GlockGil
04-13-2012, 06:43
No offense is intended towards you or any other specific FedEx or UPS employee Gil, I'm sure the large majority of their employees are honest and conscientious about their work, but facts are facts, there is NOTHING about an unloaded handgun that is any more dangerous than an unloaded long gun until it's stolen! And theft is most certainly the reason they started requiring overnight shipment....which costs more.

No doubt the info you gave above is what they told you, and it sure does make a nice sounding excuse, but the reason for it is theft, and unless they leave packages unattended and/or unsecured in places where non-employees have access to them...... :dunno:

Now, you say they can be fined for failing to detect 'undeclared DG's'. Fined by who? Per what 'law'?

Its not something they told me, its first hand knowledge. Ive delivered hundreds of handguns and did not know it was until i got to the customers location and my handheld scanner beeped four times because the package required a signature by an adult, and requires a face to face signature. Ive delivered to local LE, MPs at Ellington Airfield, and FBI, by the bunches.

Lets say i wanted to ship a handgun to anybody, i would package it up and take it to my fedex station, id have to fill out a form called a shippers export declaration, and the propper airwaybill declaring the handgun as dangerous goods, since it is considered DG, priority overnight service must be selected (del by 1030 am next day), DG,which automatically requires a signature at point of delivery. Now once i leave said station, my package is handed off to the DG specialist to dbl check the paperwork and then to be placed in a secure area until it departs that night to the airport headed for the main hub in memphis. The DG packages are all loaded onto a reg delivery truck and shuttled to the airport to be taken directly to the DG specialist there. Then they are loaded onto the plane at the front of the plane to be unloaded first. Now at the main hub any DG that are firearms get checked by customs even if they are not travelling internationally, and they open everybox and then place a special tape on the box ( usually says something on the lines of "stop, adult signature required and/or customs inspected ") but us employees know the tape. Most employees dont even pay attention to this tape until we get to the point of delivery and our handheld has extra prompts and steps before we can deliver the package and obtain the signature. This applies to the majority of DG, anything flammable, radioactive, perfumes, etc. The fines occur when a person packages an item so well that no odors are detected and there are no markings on the box, so theses packages get handled like normal packages that usually get tossed around. Then something leaks and all hell breaks loose. Evacuations, bldg clearing , etc just because we dont know what the product is. It cld be just handsoap and because of fedex procedure we must evacuate and let the DG agent inspect it. If at the time of said leak, we have a dept of transportation inspector on hand , he does his little investigation and fines fedex for not properly inspecting the package, if this occurs at the airport then fines are handed down from the FAA. These fines are usually tens of thousands of dollars, trivial to a company like fedex but they sure do hate to lose money! Ive known a driver who was fined $10,000 because of an improperly placarded truck by TxDOT, and when this employee took the ticket to management and the regional director found out , they told the employee he was responsible for the fine, poor dude quit! I think there was litigation but dont know the outcome.

That said, all guns should be processed this way, if in fact guns get stolen, its because the aforementioned steps were not taken. But declaring and item as DG is the responsibility of the person shipping the item. Yes, it costs more for DG overnight than just a regular overnight package but its just for that reason. The extra process and paperwork is worth the piece of mind. I wouldnt hesitate to ship my 22 Gen 4 to glock by fedex overnight if i needed to. Of course these packages have better insurance so if something does go wrong, i wont be given the $100 liability bs. I can only speak from 7 years of experience at fedex as a courier.


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fortyofforty
04-13-2012, 07:34
All those extra steps seem to say "steal me" in my opinion. I do know of a handgun stolen by a UPS employee, even though it was clearly shipped as a handgun from the Colt factory. The UPS employee even went so far as to forge the delivery signature. So, while thefts do occur, I do trust FedEx to deliver most of my precious cargo.

Personally, I don't consider unloaded firearms "dangerous goods".

GlockGil
04-13-2012, 07:56
All those extra steps seem to say "steal me" in my opinion. I do know of a handgun stolen by a UPS employee, even though it was clearly shipped as a handgun from the Colt factory. The UPS employee even went so far as to forge the delivery signature. So, while thefts do occur, I do trust FedEx to deliver most of my precious cargo.

Personally, I don't consider unloaded firearms "dangerous goods".

UPS is alot worse than Fedex when it comes to thefts and misdelivered packages. But the dangerous goods moniker in the world of transportation applies to firearms(whether loaded or unloaded), ammo, perfumes, batteries, any liquid samples that are flammable, aerosols, radioactive, toxic material, dry ice, etc. Fewer ppl handle DG packages than regular shipments. At the station i worked, there was only two DG specialist on duty at a time. And numerous more at the airport and main hub, but no DG package gets handled by more than one person at a time so chances of theft are reduced. Im not saying it doesnt happen, im just saying the higher charges dont come because of thefts, its because of the service.


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tenifer17
04-13-2012, 08:36
When Glock sent a magazine spring to me, the return address was simply "G I", for Glock Inc.


It allows you to check the engagement between the firing pin lug and trigger bar. With the slide forward and the trigger forward, it's recommended that at least 2/3 of the trigger bar tab should be obscured by the firing pin lug. Here's a post with a diagram showing it in more detail:
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16411468&postcount=4

that link is awesome. It really shows you how the trigger bar and stuff works togather.

MikeG36
04-13-2012, 09:33
I had a knife (Chris Reeve) sent through Fed Ex. There was a problem at the station and I had to drive out to a distribution center to pick it up. The facility was very secure. Employees had to pass through a metal detector on their way in and on their way out. Pretty tight security.

Roger H
04-13-2012, 09:38
Just for the benefit of anyone not familiar with Glock upgrades. There area lot of unofficial glock armorers that sometimes put in the wrong part or miss a tech bulletin. Its one thing to let someone change out a mag release or a slide release or put on sights but actual fire control parts ought to be done by a real gunsmith.

this is why im glad my LGS as he "repeatedly" says lol he's 1 of 3 "Master Glock armors " he's very good

125K9
04-13-2012, 11:11
I had a simple RSA Fed Ex'd from Glock that took an extra week to make it to me. That's because the Tyler, TX Fed Ex hub often uses privately owned companies to deliver good for them. That was the case here, AND, said company could not locate my residence even though my properly labeled mailbox is clear as day. So, what did they do? They MAILED the RSA! The mail carrier promptly delivered it along with the rest of our mail.
I'm sorry to include this on this particular forum, but it's in response to another post. I've never had any problems with UPS, but mistakes do happen to the best of us.
Oh yes, this wasn't years ago that this happened. Only three weeks ago. The Fed Ex envelope was "squished" inside of a USPS priority mail envelope.

dusty_dragon
04-13-2012, 11:17
sorry for jumping in so late, but i got a question for the thread starter:
yours was a glock19 gen.2, so no fingergrooves on the frame and no rail on the dust cover, right?

i own a glock 19 early gen. 3 (2 pin version, without locking block pin), sometimes refered to as glock gen. 2.8.
it has the prefix DGY......., so it has to be pre EH, but it is a (early) gen. 3, not a gen 2.
it has no "+" on the factory trigger bar and all the silver-looking-finish internals, no black ones, also has the triggerbar with the (more or less) rounded peak for engaement with the FP-safety, not the older black flat-top one.

are there other serial number prefixes in the US for US made glocks than in europe?

my G19 has no "+" on it's original triggerbar (grooved) and non on the G17 triggerbar i installed, and it works absolutely flawless with those both triggerbars, no slamfiring etc.

anyone any explanation?

voyager4520
04-13-2012, 11:32
Gen1's and early Gen2's had only two letters for the serial number prefix, example AA222 or EG222. The pre-EH trigger bars are only for two-letter prefix G19's. Three-letter prefix G19's use the same trigger bar as the G17, and it should have no + marking. It may have one or two dots in that location, I have no idea what the dots mean. If I remember correctly, my GEA G23 has no markings there, and my NRR G27 has one dot.

dusty_dragon
04-13-2012, 11:57
ah thanks a lot, that brings light in my darkness.
as so often before, you just saved my day, my brother in arms (glocks).
thanks a lot, voyager!

Shadyscott69
04-13-2012, 17:14
Ok, and why is that? I was standing right next to him watching and discussing as we worked through it.

Re replaced the trigger spring, trigger housing, trigger bar, firing pin, the plunger for the extractor.. etc etc.

Channel liner could be bad. It could causing the striker to hang up with the tip protruding from the breech face.

Stock Perfection
01-20-2013, 15:22
As far as internals are concerned... I used to have a 2 pin G-19, ser# MD750US. Clean/inspect, load, fire, repeat, no modifications. It operated nearly flawlessly through 30,000 rounds of any old 9mm. It never recieved the 6-part update, and the internals were black. The trigger bar had no + sign, and no numbers. Smooth.

SCmasterblaster
01-20-2013, 15:39
That right there is THE Holy Grail of Glocks

THE Holy Grail.