Fire Forming ? ... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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deputy tom
02-22-2012, 16:23
While shooting .223 out of a 5.56 chamber are we fire forming the brass? I was wondering if reloaders should seperate the two different types of brass. TIA. tom.:dunno:

farmer2
02-22-2012, 21:13
While shooting .223 out of a 5.56 chamber are we fire forming the brass? I was wondering if reloaders should seperate the two different types of brass. TIA. tom.:dunno:

Yes you are, but it doesn't make up for the major difference which is the case volume. 556 brass is thicker allowing for less powder. Thus leading to higher pressure. If you handle .223 brass and 556 you can actually feel the difference.

farmer2

MajorD
02-22-2012, 23:38
after shooting in a semi auto you need to full length resize anyway so any fire forming is reduced back to standard average dimensions anyway. I prefer to use a small base sizer which is even tighter- more likely to get the brass resized to fit in a larger variety of rifles especailly when we talk about match chambers. also carefully checking length and trimming or discarding over length cases will minimize problems as well.There is no external dimension difference between 223 and 5.56 as a general rule

deputy tom
02-23-2012, 04:59
Thank you for the replies. I now have my answers.tom.

DirectDrive
02-23-2012, 09:08
after shooting in a semi auto you need to full length resize anyway so any fire forming is reduced back to standard average dimensions anyway. I prefer to use a small base sizer which is even tighter- more likely to get the brass resized to fit in a larger variety of rifles especailly when we talk about match chambers. also carefully checking length and trimming or discarding over length cases will minimize problems as well.There is no external dimension difference between 223 and 5.56 as a general rule
This. ^^^

The .223 chamber has a shorter freebore than 5.56 and this is why it is not a good idea to run higher pressure 5.56 in a .223 chamber.
The .223 chamber can run those already higher pressures up even higher with the shorter freebore.

Fireforming generally refers to making a significant change in the geometry of a case using the fireforming method.
The Ackley Improved calibers are an excellent example of fireforming.

Magelk
02-24-2012, 13:41
Yes you are, but it doesn't make up for the major difference which is the case volume. 556 brass is thicker allowing for less powder. Thus leading to higher pressure. If you handle .223 brass and 556 you can actually feel the difference.

farmer2

There's no way you're going to feel the difference.:rofl:

farmer2
02-24-2012, 20:17
There's no way you're going to feel the difference.:rofl:

I absolutely can feel the difference between 223 brass and 556. Grab some LC labeled brass and some winchester .223 brass and you will be able to as well. I can pick 223 brass out of pile of 556 quite easily without looking at the rollmark.


farmer2

QNman
02-25-2012, 06:09
I just measured a Winchester .223 brass (shiny new) and a WCC 07 casing with a caliper and on the powder scale. ALL exterior dimensions are identical and both weigh precisely 6.05gr. Any difference in case is unlikely to be perceived by mortal hands.

Also, if both cases are identical in their exterior dimensions, then no significant fire forming is occurring. I believe all cases suffer some degree of fire forming, which is why we resize the cases before loading. However, it does not appear there is a significant external dimension difference to say that we are fire forming .223 to a 5.56 case.

IIRC, the case at the head has a different profile from 5.56 to .223 to accommodate the greater pressures of 5.56 ammo. I believe that is on this site somewhere, but will have to look when on a "real" computer.

Magelk
02-25-2012, 13:21
I absolutely can feel the difference between 223 brass and 556. Grab some LC labeled brass and some winchester .223 brass and you will be able to as well. I can pick 223 brass out of pile of 556 quite easily without looking at the rollmark.


farmer2

Like QNman said, "Any difference in case is unlikely to be perceived by mortal hands."


I've weighed thousands of cases in my time and the difference is so slight, you will never be able to tell the difference.

QNman
02-25-2012, 16:20
Like QNman said, "Any difference in case is unlikely to be perceived by mortal hands."


I've weighed thousands of cases in my time and the difference is so slight, you will never be able to tell the difference.

My scale says they both weigh 6.05 grains.

farmer2
02-25-2012, 17:43
My scale says they both weigh 6.05 grains.

are you sure that scale is working properly?



farmer2

Magelk
02-25-2012, 20:05
OK, couldn't resist. I just went and weighed about 6 different kinds of cases (with spent primers, all cci41's) The Lake City cases were lighter by a grain or so than Winchester cases, PSD's, PMC's, and FC (american eagle). They were about the same as the WCC's.

QNman
02-25-2012, 21:16
are you sure that scale is working properly?



farmer2

:rofl:

Yes... I keep it calibrated regularly to prevent breech fires. You sure your fingers are working properly? Try it blindfolded. I betcha there is a slight visual cue you are picking up subliminally.

QNman
02-25-2012, 21:17
OK, couldn't resist. I just went and weighed about 6 different kinds of cases (with spent primers, all cci41's) The Lake City cases were lighter by a grain or so than Winchester cases, PSD's, PMC's, and FC (american eagle). They were about the same as the WCC's.

I weighed mine clean with no primers. And only compared Winchester .223 to WCC 5.56

Magelk
02-26-2012, 07:11
:rofl:

Yes... I keep it calibrated regularly to prevent breech fires. You sure your fingers are working properly? Try it blindfolded. I betcha there is a slight visual cue you are picking up subliminally.


I think he was asking if your scale was working properly because 6.05 grains is close to 90 grains short!

Mine, with spent primer were coming in at 96 grains.

QNman
02-26-2012, 07:26
I think he was asking if your scale was working properly because 6.05 grains is close to 90 grains short!

Mine, with spent primer were coming in at 96 grains.

Oops... I mean GRAMS. :embarassed:

Magelk
02-26-2012, 09:50
LOL, thats actually what I thought you had wrote but reread and saw grains!

QNman
02-26-2012, 17:24
LOL, thats actually what I thought you had wrote but reread and saw grains!

TOTAL brain fart!