Fear of AD while holstering my 27 [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Fear of AD while holstering my 27


ghh3rd
02-25-2012, 21:20
I use quality holsters for my Glock 27, a Don Hume and a Crossbreed that I've had for years. I always carry in Conditin 1.

I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

It's not an issue with having a Glock - I know that any gun will go bang if it's cocked with one in the tube and the trigger is pulled. I have a Glock because I like the feeling I get from knowing that I've fired 1000's of rounds from it without a glitch.

I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

Snaps
02-25-2012, 21:23
I'd say... well I don't really know, don't pull the trigger, the gun don't go bang.

arushus
02-25-2012, 21:27
Try using a NY1 trigger spring with a ghost 3.5 connector. It is what I put in my G27 for just that reason, to decrease the likelihood of a negligent discharge. The feel is really nice also, I didn't think I would like it, but wanted to give it a try anyway, and I'm glad I did, it's really nice!

Sgt127
02-25-2012, 22:04
In a hip holster or duty holster, it doesn't bother me. If somehow it goes bang from something getting caught up in the trigger, aat most I will have a crease in my ass.

Appendix carry is another matter. I personally can't make myself carry a Glock pointed at my femoral artery. I've tried. If I did, I would remove the holster, put the gun in it and then put the holster back on.

Its a personal thing. Lots of people carry them appendix and very very few seem to get shot. Mechanically, the gun is safe enough, I just can't.

tinman517
02-25-2012, 22:06
I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

Yes, I can relate to you feelings. I trust that for me, that feeling always is with me. When it passes, I will be more prone to an accident. Be safe.

NCHeel
02-25-2012, 22:16
Do what I did. Carry unloaded and do what you normally would do over and over and over and see if you can accidentally on purpose cause a discharge. I have slept with a Glock many times under my pillow and I have never woke up in the morning to find the trigger depressed. After all that you should feel confident that with conscious effort you worries will dissipate.

arzG27
02-25-2012, 22:26
practice makes perfect. if you trust your holster enough to use it without worrying that you will have an AD while wearing it, you should be confident enough to pull it in and out of the holster without too much concern. that being said, safety is paramount and should always be your priority. like NCHeel said, practice holstering and unholstering unloaded and get that confidence up. i have a blackhawk serpa and just hearing that "click" gives me all the confidence i need to keep it movin

kodiakpb
02-25-2012, 22:42
Sounds like your just being careful. Nothing wrong with that. It's like jumping out of a plane, is it wrong if you still get butterflies after hundreds of jumps? = No

cowboy1964
02-25-2012, 23:36
That's one nice advantage to a hammer fired gun; thumb over the hammer while reholstering.

One can practice all they want. But they're called "accidents" for a reason.

AA#5
02-25-2012, 23:52
I use quality holsters for my Glock 27, a Don Hume and a Crossbreed that I've had for years. I always carry in Conditin 1.

I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

It's not an issue with having a Glock - I know that any gun will go bang if it's cocked with one in the tube and the trigger is pulled. I have a Glock because I like the feeling I get from knowing that I've fired 1000's of rounds from it without a glitch.

I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

It doesn't take "nerve" to holster a Glock without watching it; it takes carelessness. I don't understand why you would want to holster a Glock (or any gun) without watching to ensure no clothing, material or thumbsnap gets caught in the trigger guard.

High Altitude
02-26-2012, 01:15
Personally, I think the whole don't look at your pistol while you reholster is over blown. When do you reholster? When the fight is OVER. IMHO, look while reholstering all you want.

MikeG36
02-26-2012, 01:54
I can relate. IMO it's good that you have this feeling. It might keep you alive. You should always be careful reholstering. Good luck!

TxGlock9
02-26-2012, 04:48
Nothing wrong with it. Keep doing what you're doing. Just stop worrying too much.

gunowner1
02-26-2012, 04:56
I can't relate.From day one I have always had faith in the safeties built into my Glocks.

FL Airedale
02-26-2012, 05:56
I have no problem reholstering without looking when I'm using a Kydex holster. I do put my finger over the outside of the trigger guard until I feel it going into the holster. I also reholster slowly.

I have a simple belt slide holster that I often wear when I'm at home. It isn't stiff like Kydex so I have to use both hands when reholstering and I do this while looking and using both hands.

If I'm going to be shot, I don't want it to be me that does it!

DustyJacket
02-26-2012, 06:17
Concealment holsters are so close to your body, the clothes and accessories my get involved and cause troubles. Duty holster, not so much.

Except for revolvers, all my belt holsters are paddle or clip on. With them and my pocket holsters, I holster the gun and then put the holster on.

Another thing is to practice with an unloaded firearm when you get a new holster or carry style. What works with one type of holster may cause an issue with another.

My only Unintentional Discharge (in 45 years of shooting) was an IWB where a plastic part broke and all went to hell in a hurry. I used to put my trigger finger on the trigger guard. After that incident, I put my trigger finger on the frame above the trigger, on the slide, or around the front strap on the grip, when holstering.

Bill Lumberg
02-26-2012, 06:31
Modifying the gun because of your lack of training or experience is never the right move. Get some training and practice. And keep your finger indexed. Simple stuff.

MNBud
02-26-2012, 08:36
I'm with the majority here, there is nothing wrong with watching you gun all the way into the holster. I always put my finger over the trigger guard but there is nothing to say something can't come into the trigger guard from the body side of your gun. You are doing great don't change a thing.

bkkd
02-26-2012, 08:42
You dont have to put it up fast, but you may have to take it out fast........:supergrin:

DFin
02-26-2012, 08:46
It is not my finger that I worry about but rather my shirt or jacket getting caught in the trigger guard when reholstering. To reholster safely I have to look and make sure the holster is clear every time. I use my non gun hand to push my shirt or jacket out of the way. I don't think there is any way around it regardless of the type of holster.

bruzer
02-26-2012, 09:26
I have a buddy that is a Firearms instructor. He's been doing it for years. Every single time you watch him re-holster it is the same precise movements. Strong hand pointing gun downrange. Trigger finger straight, away from trigger and trigger guard. Weak hand reaches over, grabs clothing, pulls away from holster and is kept tightly across his chest. Strong hand holsters weapon smoothly. No movements are done fast and all the time his eyes are watching every movement and ensuring nothing is covering the mouth of the holster when holstering.
No need to get too comfortable when holstering. No need to be afraid either. Just be proficient and remember the safety rules. Respect the fact you are laying a loaded gun along side you.
Good luck and stay safe,
Mike

davsco
02-26-2012, 09:29
as most everyone else said, yep, i always visually re-holster my glocks to ensure nothing will affect the trigger. definitely one downside vs a 1911 with a thumb safety.

tinman517
02-26-2012, 09:43
I think that, at this point, mostly everyone is pretty much on the same page. Perhaps, we can replace the word fear with cautious/overly cautious, no?

ithaca_deerslayer
02-26-2012, 09:45
I look my Glock into the holster. If you are not a cop reaching for handcuffs, why not look it into the holster? ? ?

glockin-45
02-26-2012, 09:45
The only time i've had apprehension is after cleaning my gun, and then racking the slide to chamber a round. I'm alway's thinking what my wifes gonna say if a round goes off in the floor. I'd get the same feeling when i use the de-cocker on a Sig or HK.:dunno:

dhoomonyou
02-26-2012, 10:03
Nothing wrong with being careful.

DannyII
02-26-2012, 10:20
+1 for using caution.

Two eyes on the gun are a lot better than one bullet wound in the bum.

Z71bill
02-26-2012, 10:30
I normally carry IWB - my gun goes in the holster - then gets put IWB.

I practice drawing the gun out of the holster - but the gun is not loaded with live ammo (snap caps) - so putting it back in the holster is not a safety issue.

HexHead
02-26-2012, 10:32
First of all, it's not a cocked pistol. It isn't fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
Second, you're over thinking this.

abq87120
02-26-2012, 10:48
I never draw unless I must. I remove the holster to reholster. My shooting instructor told me there are four most dangerous times for an AD/ND:

Holstering
Drawing
Loading
Unloading

nyycanseco33
02-26-2012, 10:53
That sense of worry that you always have is your safety net, that is there to keep you safe and prevent AD... The moment you lose that feeling is when someone gets too comfortable and complacent, that's when accidents happen, costly ones too... Everything is fine bud


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Gray_Wolf
02-26-2012, 10:55
If you know what you're doing and being safe (keep your finger off the trigger when holstering) you should be fine. If it still bothers you that much get a DA/SA gun and have your thumb on the hammer while holstering - hat way you'll know if the hammer is not moving you're safe.

mingaa
02-26-2012, 11:15
Being concerned is good. All the high points have been hit. Yep- I worry more more about my IWB reholstering and carrying than OWB. IWB is almost always my Kahr with a slightly longer pull an trigger weight. Still - where it points while driving is occasionally disturbing - like spooking yourself while working alone on a table saw if you can relate. I no longer look for reholstering but occasionally if something does not feel right I stop, make sure I'm clear then move ahead. Now that under the pillow stuff worries me. I could never do it. I have an under the bed safe and can drop to cover and be armed in seconds (7 at last check). That may be a little slower than pillow or nightstand BUT if I were doing either I'd still use a holster (IMHO trigger covered is a must) and then I'd néed both hands to 'draw'.

SCmasterblaster
02-26-2012, 11:22
A G27 with an OTAPIN inserted would certainly prevent an ND on holstering. Just PM me for details.

Z71bill
02-26-2012, 11:29
First of all, it's not a cocked pistol. It isn't fully cocked until the trigger is pulled.
Second, you're over thinking this.

The problem is not your finger pulling the trigger - it is the edge of the holster getting inside the trigger guard - then the action of pushing the gun into the holster causes the trigger to be pulled.

I am not as concerned with an OWB holster - but almost never use them -

Could be the reason I like a single Kydex clip holster VS belt loop or double clip - so easy to put on & take off with gun in the holster.

Like these --

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r128/z71bill/gun%20pics/DSCF0526.jpg

Priapism
02-26-2012, 11:35
If you have a good stiff holster then you shouldn't have a problem. But still, why wouldn't you carefully watch while holstering?

Some leather holsters have a flap to protect the skin from the slide. Don Hume is one. This is usually the first thing to get soft and when it does it can flop around and these can get lodged in the trigger area. I just retired one such holster.

JackMac
02-26-2012, 11:41
There is no substitute for caution. Nor is there one for practice. Unload the pistol and then practice your draw and your holstering until it becomes a habit...and after a while you should be able to put that Glock in your Don Hume without looking for the holster, provided you wear it in the same place all the time.

Z71bill
02-26-2012, 11:59
If you have a good stiff holster then you shouldn't have a problem. But still, why wouldn't you carefully watch while holstering?

Some leather holsters have a flap to protect the skin from the slide. Don Hume is one. This is usually the first thing to get soft and when it does it can flop around and these can get lodged in the trigger area. I just retired one such holster.

Maybe I need to loose a few pounds around my middle. :whistling:

But no IWB holster I have stays fully open when installed without a gun inside.

I also wear the holster at about 4:00 o'clock on my belt - makes it hard to see -

It will never be worth the risk to me to put my gun back in its IWB holster while I am wearing it.

Only takes a second to pull holster - and reinstall.

YMMV

Priapism
02-26-2012, 12:14
Maybe I need to loose a few pounds around my middle. :whistling:

But no IWB holster I have stays fully open when installed without a gun inside.

I also wear the holster at about 4:00 o'clock on my belt - makes it hard to see -

It will never be worth the risk to me to put my gun back in its IWB holster while I am wearing it.

Only takes a second to pull holster - and reinstall.

YMMV

The holster I was talking about is OWB. H721 OT. I never have a leather IWB on without a gun in it. The holster will collapse and be useless in no time.

sciolist
02-26-2012, 13:21
I have the habit of looking at my match pistol as it goes back into the holster, but not my carry gun - it's too far around my torso. No way that would be feasible with a bulky cover garment. I can see about half the mouth of the holster, but not down into it.

Seems like the habit you really want to develop is clearing the holster with your weak hand before the gun goes back in. Even if the carry holster is positioned where you can see it, there are plenty of 'defensive' situations where it might not be practical to make a visual check.

Not that I'm planning to have one, but an ND at 5:00 with IWB cant would be much less worrisome than an ND in my speed belt. That could do all sorts of bad things to my right leg.

This is another reason I like my carry belt on the high side. That tends to point the muzzle out past tangent to my body, so at least the butt crease would be minimal.

As others have said, it's good to be systematic, slow and aware when reholstering. If something happened to be in the holster, you are much more likely to feel it and stop before the trigger can be moved.

JuneyBooney
02-26-2012, 13:28
I'd say... well I don't really know, don't pull the trigger, the gun don't go bang.

That seems lie an accurate statement. Just use caution when putting the gun into the holster and all should be good.

kodiakpb
02-26-2012, 15:09
Addressing separate issue I'm seeing: if you have a kydex IWB and your pants are higher than the upper edge of the kydex...it's too deep. Adjust it back up.

To reiterate my earlier post, there is nothing wrong with being careful.

John Biltz
02-26-2012, 17:31
Sounds like a good habit to me. I don't understand why you do not want to look.

1smoothredneck
02-26-2012, 17:59
NY1 trigger in all my carry Glocks... and finger off the trigger! And remember, no one will ever NEED a really fast reholster. Smooth..Safe.

carloglock19
02-26-2012, 18:32
Are you doing holster drills with your 27 loaded? I always look and feel to clear when I put mine back in the holster (IWB) at the range when I change my SD ammo. I practice holster drills at home with an unloaded gun at all times but that's just me.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

QNman
02-26-2012, 18:46
Your caution is a good thing. Watch it into the holster. No harm, no AD.

ca survivor
02-27-2012, 07:27
I have gun IN holster to slide IWB, trigger is covered by the holster

fwm
02-27-2012, 12:59
I use quality holsters for my Glock 27, a Don Hume and a Crossbreed that I've had for years. I always carry in Conditin 1.

I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

I have been carrying since MO allowed it in 2004. I NEVER holster without stopping all my other thoughts and consciously following the guns in and being terribly aware of where my fingers are.

There were two articles on here a couple of years ago about two gentlemen, in two different places and two separate times, that were holstering into shoulder holsters after some time at the range. In those two cases, both guns fired and killed the gentlemen.

I am never in so big a hurry but that I intend to be sure I never die from that simple instant of inattention.

I say, whatever you holster, pay attention, every time.

Breadman03
02-28-2012, 12:18
Keep your eyes on the threat. Don't holster your pistol until you feel safe that other threats have passed and you can turn your attention to your holster.

I'll holster my XD without looking, but I feel confident that between the low likelihood of something getting in the trigger guard and me releasing the grip safety, there is almost no chance the pistol will discharge. I watch my Glock.

MarkM32
02-28-2012, 12:33
Depends on the situation whether I do or don't look. When I'm duty carrying, it all depends on what's going on, usually if you have to draw your firearm on duty, there is something going on that requires your attention. On duty, I carry a Blackhawk level 3 SERPA, depending on the situation I'll look. Off duty, I use a Blackhawk CQC concealment holster, and it also depends on what's going on. I usually just take my weak hand and clear the holster, then start to holster, then take a look about mid-way. (I had to draw and holster again to double check how I do this) To each their own, but ere on the side of caution.

dosei
02-28-2012, 12:59
Personally, I think the whole don't look at your pistol while you reholster is over blown. When do you reholster? When the fight is OVER. IMHO, look while reholstering all you want.

Here is one of the reasons explained:
(Starting at the :27 mark and going to 1:10)
Massad Ayoob (Aftermath Shooting) - YouTube

ADK_40GLKr
02-28-2012, 13:38
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1404322

There's a similar thread over in Gen Glocking.

One suggestion there is to unload before reholstering & then return the mag while Glock is in holster, OR just Reholster with an empty chamber.

fuzzy03cls
02-29-2012, 08:47
It's a mental challenge you need to overcome. Simple as that. You say you fired thousands of rounds & use good holsters & look the gun back into the holster. A commone sense mentailty says what are you worried about? But you have a mental blockage there. Not trying to offend the OP, but it needs to be overcome.

ConcealedG23
02-29-2012, 14:14
I also have a hard time with this. I just recently, 1 week ago, switched from an XDm to a Glock. The XDm was my only handgun and I carried it daily. The grip safety was a big reason I originally went with the XDm. I could adjust my grip so that the grip safety wasn't depressed and I could holster the weapon with very very little worry. With the Glock, this has not been the case. I consider it the biggest downfall that I am going to have to get over with the Glock. After much thought and deliberation, I ended up switching to Glock, but this lack of a grip safety is going to take a bit to get over. FYI, I have a Comp-Tac MTAC as my only holster.

D

fredj338
02-29-2012, 15:24
The only way it goes off hosltering it is if you put your finger on the trigger. Good holster, good technique, lots of practice w/ it empty. As noted, there are no points for a fast reholstering. Looking it into the holster is fine, fussing w/ it is not. PROPER PRACTICE until it is second nature. Proper practice is NOT muzzling yourself while holstering & NOT using your support hand to guide the gun in. That is a good way to shoot yourself if you don't obey the finger off the trigger rule.

writwing
02-29-2012, 15:30
I use quality holsters for my Glock 27, a Don Hume and a Crossbreed that I've had for years. I always carry in Conditin 1.

I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

It's not an issue with having a Glock - I know that any gun will go bang if it's cocked with one in the tube and the trigger is pulled. I have a Glock because I like the feeling I get from knowing that I've fired 1000's of rounds from it without a glitch.

I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

Buy a gun that will make you feel safe.

Spiffums
02-29-2012, 16:24
Being afraid of somethings is what keep you alive. There is no shame in holstering slow and watching the gun. I have never understood the whole race to holster the gun.

Rumbler_G20
02-29-2012, 17:19
It doesn't take "nerve" to holster a Glock without watching it; it takes carelessness. I don't understand why you would want to holster a Glock (or any gun) without watching to ensure no clothing, material or thumbsnap gets caught in the trigger guard.


Oh that is easy.

You are busy watching something, or for something.

There is no rule that says threats travel alone. And if there was the thugs would probably ignore it.

You may need to reholster momentarily to have use of both hands to perform some task (like opening a door with a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other.

You could need to scale a fence or other obstacle.


There are lots and lots of reasons one could need to reholster while their eyes are busy.

In fact, learning to reholster while NOT looking is a standard skill introduced in most basic (firearm) self defense classes and all but a prerequisite to have practiced to the point of being instinctual beyond entry level classes.


'course, well, obviously if you carry a firearm for some other reason than defense . . . I can see how it could be an optional skill. :wavey:

ithaca_deerslayer
03-01-2012, 09:05
Oh that is easy.

You are busy watching something, or for something.

There is no rule that says threats travel alone. And if there was the thugs would probably ignore it.

You may need to reholster momentarily to have use of both hands to perform some task (like opening a door with a flashlight in one hand and a pistol in the other.

You could need to scale a fence or other obstacle.


There are lots and lots of reasons one could need to reholster while their eyes are busy.

In fact, learning to reholster while NOT looking is a standard skill introduced in most basic (firearm) self defense classes and all but a prerequisite to have practiced to the point of being instinctual beyond entry level classes.


'course, well, obviously if you carry a firearm for some other reason than defense . . . I can see how it could be an optional skill. :wavey:

Maybe what you say makes perfect sense.

But I wonder if in actuality it more pertains to LEO? And perhaps not so much to concealed carry by civilians?

All the time I CCW, the gun is buried under clothes. I practise drawing, and do that while looking toward a threat. But to reverse that process and reholster, the gun just ain't gonna go back in under those clothes as easy as it came out.

Furthermore, the act of reholstering entails pushing the gun down where stuff can get in the trigger area and cause a gun such as the Glock to discharge even if your finger does not pull the trigger.

And as we practise drawing and shooting and reholstering thousands of times, but may never actually encounter a self defense situation, where are the better odds? Seems the odds of an AD from a no-look reholster are higher than the odds of being jumped while looking your gun into the holster during a self-defense situation.

Any thoughts on that?

itstime
03-01-2012, 09:10
Don't worry about it or change up what you are doing. Be alert be careful and be safe.

happyguy
03-01-2012, 11:00
I use quality holsters for my Glock 27, a Don Hume and a Crossbreed that I've had for years. I always carry in Conditin 1.

I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

It's not an issue with having a Glock - I know that any gun will go bang if it's cocked with one in the tube and the trigger is pulled. I have a Glock because I like the feeling I get from knowing that I've fired 1000's of rounds from it without a glitch.

I was hoping that this feeling would pass in time, but no luck, so far. Can anyone relate to this -- any tips?

Randy

Keep doing what you are doing. It seems to be working fine so far.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

RJ's Guns
03-01-2012, 18:13
If it is a real concern, then maybe you would be much better served with another type of handgun such as a double action auto-loader or maybe a double action autoloader with a (Ambidextrous) safety lever such as a H&K P30S and leave the Glock at home.

Merkavaboy
03-01-2012, 18:19
Here is one of the reasons explained:
(Starting at the :27 mark and going to 1:10)
Massad Ayoob (Aftermath Shooting) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCZXZMYyRl4)

Dosei, Good job posting that video of Mas.

I'll add a bit by saying don't buy cheap holsters. Buy quality holsters with a metal band sewn around the mouth of the holster so it doesn't collapse when the gun is not holstered.

And for G-d's sake get rid of those "smart carry" holsters (which I call "idiot carry" holsters). Don't be carrying your gun in a holster that points to your "junk" and femoral arteries. Try reholstering with your "idiot carry" while still trembling on your adrenalin high...

fuzzy03cls
03-02-2012, 08:18
And for G-d's sake get rid of those "smart carry" holsters (which I call "idiot carry" holsters). Don't be carrying your gun in a holster that points to your "junk" and femoral arteries. Try reholstering with your "idiot carry" while still trembling on your adrenalin high... Why should it matter? It's a holster just like any holster. Unless the trigger is pulled nothing will happen......
I agree it's not a bright idea, but you can't say it's any more dangerous then anything else. The end user is the problem.

jellis11
03-02-2012, 08:39
I felt a little apprehension when I switched from carrying an XD to Glock. I would back my palm off a little so the grip safety wouldn't be depressed. Now I will look when holstering my g26 to make sure no material from my shirt, jeans, whatever is worthy of slipping into the trigger guard.

SCmasterblaster
03-02-2012, 09:25
Try sticking your trigger finger straight out while holstering. No NDs that way.

Merkavaboy
03-02-2012, 18:51
Why should it matter? It's a holster just like any holster. Unless the trigger is pulled nothing will happen......
I agree it's not a bright idea, but you can't say it's any more dangerous then anything else. The end user is the problem.

I think it does matter. There are novices that are paranoid and even afraid of holstering their own pistols in standard IWB and OWB holsters (and some even fail to understand the importance of being able to reholster without looking at their gun/holster). Trying to jam a loaded gun into a piece of floppy nylon that lays directly in front of your Johnson is just insane.

TurtleBoy617
03-03-2012, 09:30
practice does not make perfect!

Perfect practice makes perfect!

Rumbler_G20
03-03-2012, 10:15
Maybe what you say makes perfect sense.

But I wonder if in actuality it more pertains to LEO? And perhaps not so much to concealed carry by civilians?

All the time I CCW, the gun is buried under clothes. I practise drawing, and do that while looking toward a threat. But to reverse that process and reholster, the gun just ain't gonna go back in under those clothes as easy as it came out.

Furthermore, the act of reholstering entails pushing the gun down where stuff can get in the trigger area and cause a gun such as the Glock to discharge even if your finger does not pull the trigger.

And as we practise drawing and shooting and reholstering thousands of times, but may never actually encounter a self defense situation, where are the better odds? Seems the odds of an AD from a no-look reholster are higher than the odds of being jumped while looking your gun into the holster during a self-defense situation.

Any thoughts on that?


I'm not sworn law enforcement. But I am a training junky. I've seen the same "be able to reholster without looking" from coast to coast. And have needed and used the practice countless times in training. Simple fact of the matter is that your visual situational awareness drops to a cold hard ZERO during a "watch it into the holster" reholster. Civilian or not that is a bad bad thing. Presumably you are filling seconds immediately after a violent encounter so violent shots were fired.

I'd find it awful difficult to justify dropping any of my "sensor systems" to ZERO even momentarily. Especially when it is completely unnecessary.

As for the Glock thing. I very respectfully propose that provided one has put in a reasonable amount of properly formatted practice and still does not feel confident performing a technique well established as (at a minimum) extremely important because of the handgun, one of two things is going on. Regardless of which it is it gets addressed the same way - get rid of the gun:

1) Design/Engineering shortfall.
2) "Properly formatted" is not achievable because of the pistol design.

I know. That doesn't sound like a Glock fan. I'm not.

But in fairness I have to point out that I literally see many dozens of people per year successfully master the "be able to reholster without looking" with a Glock.

I mean no offense to you Mister OP, but the problem here is you. You need professional training.

Reviewing this thread, it is glaringly obvious that you are in the majority here so don't feel bad about that.

Just get it. :wavey:

ithaca_deerslayer
03-03-2012, 11:20
Some cops have AD's reholstering, and they have professional training.

vram74
03-03-2012, 17:07
People here love to bash the XD for it's grip safety, saying how unnecessary it is, but this is one of the best reasons to justify it. I worry about the same exact thing with my two glocks. AD/ND's are a real possibility holstering a glock even if your finger is off the trigger. All it takes is some clothing in the trigger guard. I would welcome the addition of a grip safety into the glock design.

jknight8907
03-03-2012, 17:23
People here love to bash the XD for it's grip safety, saying how unnecessary it is, but this is one of the best reasons to justify it. I worry about the same exact thing with my two glocks. AD/ND's are a real possibility holstering a glock even if your finger is off the trigger. All it takes is some clothing in the trigger guard. I would welcome the addition of a grip safety into the glock design.

It will, but only if you reposition your hand away from the safety before holstering.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

vram74
03-03-2012, 17:45
It will, but only if you reposition your hand away from the safety before holstering.


Yeah that's what I mean. It's easy enough with an XD when re-holstering to position your thumb over the back of the slide and remove your palm off the grip safety. Second nature once you've done it a few times and guarantees no accidents from happening.

The only two reasons I got rid of my XD was because of the price of .45 ammo (didn't shoot it) and I prefer the glock trigger. I didn't want to alternate between the two.

Merkavaboy
03-03-2012, 18:24
I'm not sworn law enforcement. But I am a training junky. I've seen the same "be able to reholster without looking" from coast to coast. And have needed and used the practice countless times in training. Simple fact of the matter is that your visual situational awareness drops to a cold hard ZERO during a "watch it into the holster" reholster. Civilian or not that is a bad bad thing. Presumably you are filling seconds immediately after a violent encounter so violent shots were fired.

I'd find it awful difficult to justify dropping any of my "sensor systems" to ZERO even momentarily. Especially when it is completely unnecessary.

As for the Glock thing. I very respectfully propose that provided one has put in a reasonable amount of properly formatted practice and still does not feel confident performing a technique well established as (at a minimum) extremely important because of the handgun, one of two things is going on. Regardless of which it is it gets addressed the same way - get rid of the gun:

1) Design/Engineering shortfall.
2) "Properly formatted" is not achievable because of the pistol design.

I know. That doesn't sound like a Glock fan. I'm not.

But in fairness I have to point out that I literally see many dozens of people per year successfully master the "be able to reholster without looking" with a Glock.

I mean no offense to you Mister OP, but the problem here is you. You need professional training.

Reviewing this thread, it is glaringly obvious that you are in the majority here so don't feel bad about that.

Just get it. :wavey:

Well written Sir! :thumbsup:

huggytree
03-04-2012, 06:59
remember the Glock hammer is not even cocked all the way back....without the trigger being pulled there's no way for it to go off...i holster mine daily.....i dont look most of the time...when i do look its just to make sure its in the holster all the way

dosei
03-05-2012, 10:22
remember the Glock hammer is not even cocked all the way back....without the trigger being pulled there's no way for it to go off...i holster mine daily.....i dont look most of the time...when i do look its just to make sure its in the holster all the way

The striker on a Glock is pre-cocked to 62%, which is enough pre-load to fire a round if released from it's pre-cocked position. Having the striker pre-cocked enough to fire a round if released from the pre-cocked position was done intentionally by Glock...from the very beginning.

ithaca_deerslayer
03-05-2012, 10:42
The striker on a Glock is pre-cocked to 62%, which is enough pre-load to fire a round if released from it's pre-cocked position. Having the striker pre-cocked enough to fire a round if released from the pre-cocked position was done intentionally by Glock...from the very beginning.

I don't doubt you at all, but instead just want to know more.

Do you have any links about this sort of information. "62%" sure sounds like it has been measured and documented.

If no links, can you explain more about why Glock would be pre-cocked enough to fire, yet still require so much more cocking and pressure to actually fire? Why not just go with a design like a single action firing from that pre-cocked position?

Whatever Glock did, it seems to work in my book, I like the feel of their trigger. Just curious to know more about it :)

Thanks.

dosei
03-05-2012, 20:28
I don't doubt you at all, but instead just want to know more.

Do you have any links about this sort of information. "62%" sure sounds like it has been measured and documented.

Links to articles published in "niche" magazines (Peterson's Handguns, American Handgunner, Guns & Ammo, etc.) back in 1982 don't exist. About the closest I can get you is this:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_160_26/ai_92585765/?tag=content;col1
In it, Mas refers to a study of the Glock and XD trigger systems done by Tioga Engineering. In this study, Tioga confirmed the Glock's 62% preload and adaquite pre-load to fire if released from that point.

Also, there is the infamous DEA "Frisbee Test" that induce the slide to seperate from the frame thus releasing the striker from the preloaded point and firing a primed case.

Lastly, there logic/common sense. The Glock was initially meet with great skepticism by the U.S. It was the unanimous opinion that the Glock was a dangerous design, and everyone was heck-bent on proving it...resulting it tests being devised that were so severe that many current production handguns failed (ones that where believed to be safe, solid handguns) while the Glock prevailed. What about the Glock's design would elicit such a strong belief that is was dangerous and ill-conceived? Polymer framed? No, those had been around for over a decade. Striker fired? No, again nothing new there. Void of traditional manual safeties? Yet again...No, that was also nothing new at the time...even for semi-autos. So what was it? It was the fact that it was the first handgun that pre-cocked itself enough to fire and lacked any traditional manual safeties.

If no links, can you explain more about why Glock would be pre-cocked enough to fire, yet still require so much more cocking and pressure to actually fire? Why not just go with a design like a single action firing from that pre-cocked position?

Why? That is really easy and should be quite obvious. So that it could more easily be marketed to the Military and to Law Enforcement Agencies. The DA revolver was still the reigning king of handguns in LEO holsters across the U.S. and, despite a decade of Jeff Coopers teaching and writing, the majority of the people who carried a 1911 carried it C3. The HK VP70 was a failure due, in part, to it's long and heavy trigger pull (it was a true DAO, with second strike capability). By preloading the striker, the overall striker travel that must be generated by the trigger can be greatly reduced. Since the striker now does not need to travel very far, the trigger can be designed with more mechanical advantage resulting in a trigger that travels a littler farther than the striker (the movement ratio is not 1:1) but also does not impart the full spring pressure to the trigger finger of the operator (as the VP70 did). Gaston studied various firearm designs that had "precock" or "halfcock" positions for the hammer and found that many of them did have the hammer cocked enough to fire if released from that position. Gaston documented these designs and designed the Glock to have a little less preload than the firearms he found to have the greatest preloaded condition. He was quite resolute in his belief that the Glock could never possibly fire unless the trigger was being pulled. And if the trigger is being pulled then obviously someone wants the gun to fire...needs the gun to fire. So if some type of failure were to occur while the trigger was being pulled, resulting in the striker being released early, the gun would still fire (and potentially save the life of the user). Gaston knew that for the gun to find it's way into the majority of LEO's holsters (remember, this was back in 1982) it would need to be listed as a DA trigger by the BATF. So he designed the most "un-DA" trigger he could yet still be just within an arguable "DA" trigger design.

ithaca_deerslayer
03-05-2012, 20:41
Dosei, awesome post. Well written with a lot of information and logic. I appreciate it very much :)

NEOH212
03-08-2012, 02:46
If your that worried about it or that unsure of yourself not keeping your finger out of the way of the trigger, get a gun with a external safety and carry with the safety on.

happyguy
03-08-2012, 06:05
Let me just say that in my opinion it's OK for the typical CCW to look at the holster while they put the gun back in it.

The weird stuff I've seen people do under stress...:upeyes:

I've seen professionals try to do reloads by stuffing cell phones and belt knives into the magazine well, and this was just under the stress of training and eval. What do you think the stress of a real world shooting is going to do to your awareness?

Don't re-holster until the threat no longer exists. If the cops show up and you have a gun in your hand do not point it at them and follow their instructions exactly.

Be careful and work within your limitations.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

ScottieG59
03-09-2012, 22:36
There is no problem being careful reholstering a Glock to its concealed holster. I carry a Glock 27 in an IWB holster and I check before and as I reholster. Still, I often holster the Glock and put the holstered gun in place. In the old days, when I frequently carried double action revolvers, I always holstered before putting it in place.

There are plenty of professionals who have shot themselves reholstering. There is no shame in being careful.

truetopath
03-10-2012, 17:44
I carry my G27 IWB and always holster the gun fully loaded while looking it into the holster even though I am comfortable and confident holstering without looking. I have practiced and practiced with an empty firearm rapidly reholstering with the radio blaring, and I know sounds crazy a strobe light going, to mimic a high stress situation. All I can say is practice practice practice, and if you have to look it in the holster, do it, it's your ass on the line.

Merkavaboy
03-10-2012, 18:55
This is a great thread. It shows just how many people are so insecure and uncomfortable about carrying a firearm. People who carry a firearm for SD should know that firearm like the back of your hand. You should be able to draw that firearm from concealment with a proper grip already established and you should be able to reload from slide-lock and reholster without looking and in complete darkness or even blinded (if this were to ever happen).

If you can't perform these basic and simple tactics while packing a gun I have to ask you, do you also have to look down at your ***** to take a piss?

happyguy
03-10-2012, 19:11
This is a great thread. It shows just how many people are so insecure and uncomfortable about carrying a firearm. People who carry a firearm for SD should know that firearm like the back of your hand. You should be able to draw that firearm from concealment with a proper grip already established and you should be able to reload from slide-lock and reholster without looking and in complete darkness or even blinded (if this were to ever happen).

If you can't perform these basic and simple tactics while packing a gun I have to ask you, do you also have to look down at your ***** to take a piss?

:upeyes:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

ithaca_deerslayer
03-12-2012, 08:14
This is a great thread. It shows just how many people are so insecure and uncomfortable about carrying a firearm. People who carry a firearm for SD should know that firearm like the back of your hand. You should be able to draw that firearm from concealment with a proper grip already established and you should be able to reload from slide-lock and reholster without looking and in complete darkness or even blinded (if this were to ever happen).

If you can't perform these basic and simple tactics while packing a gun I have to ask you, do you also have to look down at your ***** to take a piss?

That's a great analogy. Because in thousands of times doing it, I'm sure we've all had that occasional miss. No severe consequences other than a clean up or getting yelled at by the wife.

Thousands of no-look reholsters in IWB with clothing in the way, the mess might not be as be as easy to clean up.

Merkavaboy
03-12-2012, 12:06
That's a great analogy. Because in thousands of times doing it, I'm sure we've all had that occasional miss. No severe consequences other than a clean up or getting yelled at by the wife.

Thousands of no-look reholsters in IWB with clothing in the way, the mess might not be as be as easy to clean up.

Forgive me, but the act of being able to find and replace one's manhood in one's pants without looking is not synonymous with the act of being able to hit one's target while urinating, just like being able to draw and reholster one's handgun without looking is not synonymous with the act of pointing and firing said handgun at a target.

ithaca_deerslayer
03-12-2012, 12:18
Forgive me, but ...

I was just going with your analogy. No offense meant.

Truth might be that anyone who looks the Glock back into an IWB might not be as skilled as you. I'm fine with that. In spite of that limitation, I'll still carry on the off chance I might manage to draw and hit something if ever needed in an emergency.

Deaf Smith
03-12-2012, 20:54
I still feel apprehensive when holstering my Glock, even though I watch the gun into the holster. I've never had the nerve to holster without watching the gun and holster, although I would prefer to do so.

Randy

Randy,

As a few others have posted,, get a NY-1 trigger and 3.5 lb connector on your Glock.

I've got that setup on ALL my Glocks. And add a good holster that won't collapse when you draw and it covers the trigger guard and your are good to go.

But yes, I ALWAYS make sure my holster is clear before I re-holster (and my trigger finger is no where near the trigger.)

Deaf

BrewerGeorge
03-12-2012, 21:11
I was just going with your analogy. No offense meant.

Truth might be that anyone who looks the Glock back into an IWB might not be as skilled as you. I'm fine with that. In spite of that limitation, I'll still carry on the off chance I might manage to draw and hit something if ever needed in an emergency.
The quest for perfection has prevented many people from taking worthwhile action.

To say that somebody has no business carrying if they don't feel comfortable holstering without looking is ridiculous. I will train the reactive, defensive scenario of drawing the weapon safely. When I am comfortable doing that, I have everything I need to protect myself from attack. Were everyone to insist on automatic blind reholstering, IWB would be quite rare and pocket carry would be essentially gone. Should everyone currently using those carry methods be unarmed because they do not meet an arbitrary standard? How far do we push this idea? Should we put a minimum time to draw requirement in place before someone is "good enough" to carry?

Sure, blind reholstering is a nice additional skill, but it is just that - an addition, not a requirement.

BTW, I quoted ithaca-deerslayer because I am agreeing with him, not countering him.