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Torontogunguy
03-17-2012, 20:45
On August 2, 2007, my friend and Detective Constable Rob Plunkett, had a very bad day. Approaching, on foot, a young man he thought had stolen a car instead of doing a felony stop at gunpoint, Rob found himself being dragged by that car which had been jammed into reverse at full speed. Rob was rammed up against a tree and pinned as other officers rushed to his aid and to make the arrest. A LEO never knows what he or she is going to be up against when making a stop or attending an incident. Never. Frayed nerves and occasional bad mood are part of the job and that's a fact. I can understand why. Rob was a 22 year veteran. He spent many years in the service of the public while off duty as well and was Co-Chair of the Special Olympics in 2000.
Rob's Aorta was ripped from his heart and he died if you have not already guessed. And Rob left a family behind to grieve and try to carry on without a father. Now, THAT is a rough day.

You got stopped for whatever and the officer didn't talk to you nicely? Sorry... YOU need to rethink that situation.

I can guarantee you that Rob had the occasional "bad day". I can also guarantee you that each and every person that had the good fortune to have contact with Rob on or off duty misses him dearly with the exception of those who were taken into custody. I know that I still think about Rob - he was an outstanding LEO and member of the community.

On the very few occasions that I have had less than ideal contact with LEO's I recall Rob and understand that LEO's can be cranky on the job now and again.

Rob and many others have placed their lives on the line and place themselves in harm's way daily for you and I.

The least we can do is cut some slack.

Expired plates are a perfectly valid reason for being stopped. There are plenty of good reasons for making a stop. Now place yourself in the officer's position, not knowing what he/she is going to face during that stop and multiply that by 20 or more stops during a long shift.

God Bless Arizona for Constitutional Carry without a permit, but as a LEO, I think I would rather know that the person I was stopping, while carrying a deadly weapon, also carried a card that simply stated he/she had been vetted and was known to be an upstanding member of society and not a gang banger or felon bent on making good his/her escape by any means possible, including taking my life or causing me grievous bodily harm. Heck, as a private citizen I would like to know that the fellow that pulled up to me carrying a concealed weapon was vetted and legally able to carry a concealed weapon. No whackos, no felons. Otherwise, if you are legal to carry a gun you should be permitted to do so. It was undoubtedly what the founding fathers intended.

Sorry. Down off my soapbox. We miss you Rob.

The 'man' that took Rob's life was sentenced to 12 years in jail. Originally charged with Murder in the first degree; he was convicted of Manslaughter and given 2 for 1 credit for time in custody awaiting trial as he was considered a flight risk. At conviction he was to serve an additional 4 years in jail before carrying on his life. HIS FAMILY was unhappy with the extremity of the sentence, calling it 'too lengthy'.

Is there any reason for our LEO's to have a cranky day now and again?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/29/man-convicted-of-manslaughter-in-death-of-york-officer-to-spend-another-four-years-in-jail/

If this costs me a rap on the knuckles or a suspension so be it. I am sorry, I just had to get up on my soapbox and get this off my chest. Too many friends that are still LEO's and I see them counting the days until they are eligible for retirement.

Wonder140
03-17-2012, 21:07
On August 2, 2007, my friend and Detective Constable Rob Plunkett, had a very bad day. Approaching, on foot, a young man he thought had stolen a car instead of doing a felony stop at gunpoint, Rob found himself being dragged by that car which had been jammed into reverse at full speed. Rob was rammed up against a tree and pinned as other officers rushed to his aid and to make the arrest. A LEO never knows what he or she is going to be up against when making a stop or attending an incident. Never. Frayed nerves and occasional bad mood are part of the job and that's a fact. I can understand why. Rob was a 22 year veteran. He spent many years in the service of the public while off duty as well and was Co-Chair of the Special Olympics in 2000.
Rob's Aorta was ripped from his heart and he died if you have not already guessed. And Rob left a family behind to grieve and try to carry on without a father. Now, THAT is a rough day.

You got stopped for whatever and the officer didn't talk to you nicely? Sorry... YOU need to rethink that situation.

I can guarantee you that Rob had the occasional "bad day". I can also guarantee you that each and every person that had the good fortune to have contact with Rob on or off duty misses him dearly with the exception of those who were taken into custody. I know that I still think about Rob - he was an outstanding LEO and member of the community.

On the very few occasions that I have had less than ideal contact with LEO's I recall Rob and understand that LEO's can be cranky on the job now and again.

Rob and many others have placed their lives on the line and place themselves in harm's way daily for you and I.

The least we can do is cut some slack.

Expired plates are a perfectly valid reason for being stopped. There are plenty of good reasons for making a stop. Now place yourself in the officer's position, not knowing what he/she is going to face during that stop and multiply that by 20 or more stops during a long shift.

God Bless Arizona for Constitutional Carry without a permit, but as a LEO, I think I would rather know that the person I was stopping, while carrying a deadly weapon, also carried a card that simply stated he/she had been vetted and was known to be an upstanding member of society and not a gang banger or felon bent on making good his/her escape by any means possible, including taking my life or causing me grievous bodily harm. Heck, as a private citizen I would like to know that the fellow that pulled up to me carrying a concealed weapon was vetted and legally able to carry a concealed weapon. No whackos, no felons. Otherwise, if you are legal to carry a gun you should be permitted to do so. It was undoubtedly what the founding fathers intended.

Sorry. Down off my soapbox. We miss you Rob.

The 'man' that took Rob's life was sentenced to 12 years in jail. Originally charged with Murder in the first degree; he was convicted of Manslaughter and given 2 for 1 credit for time in custody awaiting trial as he was considered a flight risk. At conviction he was to serve an additional 4 years in jail before carrying on his life. HIS FAMILY was unhappy with the extremity of the sentence, calling it 'too lengthy'.

Is there any reason for our LEO's to have a cranky day now and again?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/06/29/man-convicted-of-manslaughter-in-death-of-york-officer-to-spend-another-four-years-in-jail/

If this costs me a rap on the knuckles or a suspension so be it. I am sorry, I just had to get up on my soapbox and get this off my chest. Too many friends that are still LEO's and I see them counting the days until they are eligible for retirement.

RIP Detective Constable Rob Plunkett. Sad story. Especially the sentence. I feel you and know first hand this terrible issue. It is just down right frustrating at times.

My partner was involved in a shooting and the SA offered a terrible plea deal and of course it was accepted. Without going into to much detail, the basics are my partner initiated a traffic stop for no tag light. Simple equipment violation that we rarely ever write a citation for. Upon walking up toward the stopped vehicle, the driver threw the vehicle in reverse and charged for my partner. My partner jumped and dove out of the way and the driver slammed into his cruiser. Driver then moved forward and aimed for my partner again and in turn my partner fired several rounds. Driver at this point took off in the vehicle. My partner was not injured aside from being scraped and bruised from diving out of the way. His cruiser was disabled from being slammed into twice. The suspect was caught some 20 min later with the help of 30+ Leos, a few K9 units and the helicopter crew. He had a suspended DL and a lot of cocaine in the vehicle plus other things.

Guess what his plea was for this??? 240 hours community service, 5 years probation and he has to pay for damages. I was furious with this so you can imagine how my partner felt. He tries to kill my partner, a law enforcement officer, and he doesn't spend but one day in jail for it. The system is frustrating as Hell. Terrible thing.

Torontogunguy
03-17-2012, 21:09
I think this comment is spot on. In my state, there is no legal duty to inform. I've been pulled over (rightfully for speeding) a few times. I've never informed.

I'd rather get the ticket and exchange ONLY information that is NECESSARY to the traffic stop. No more. No less.

I'm not going to inform for the purpose of hopefully finding a CCW-enthusiast officer who will "thank" me by giving me a warning. I'm just not taking that gamble that I might encounter quite the opposite. I'd rather pay the ticket.

Just me... YMMV.

Everyone has their own opinion on this. In fact, get two CCW guys together and we get THREE opinions. The following is just my humble opinion......

When I cross the border, even though I carry a NEXUS ID card which permits me to cross without interview or inspection, I present BOTH my NEXUS card AND my passport. If I am transporting firearms or explosives I declare that I am doing so and include my permit(s) in what I hand to the border officer. Why? Because it is either required or it is common courtesy. No more no less.

When I am stopped and I have a firearm on board or on my person, I keep my inside dome light on and my hands on the steering wheel in plain sight. I ask my passengers to do the same (keep hands in plain sight). I don't fumble for a wallet. IMMEDIATELY on making contact, whether required to or not I declare that I am carrying or transporting and ask the officer how they would like to handle this. The one time I was stopped while transporting I was asked where the gun was and advised it was locked up in a gunsafe in the back of my SUV, was asked to open the rear hatch, which I did. When the officer saw the safe I was asked for ID. And then was wished bon voyage and on my way. End of story.

Did I need to do this? Nope. I did it as a matter of courtesy as for those of us that have made a vehicle stop in the dark of night, not knowing what to expect, that small common courtesy cuts the tension by 99.9%. Of that I can assure you.

So. My humble experience and advice is to do exactly what I have described. Don't fumble in the glove box as the officer approaches. Nor under the seat nor behind your back to get your wallet nor in your purse to get your paperwork. TURN ON YOUR DOME LIGHT AND KEEP YOUR HANDS IN PLAIN SIGHT AND OPEN YOUR WINDOW ALL THE WAY, RAIN OR SHINE. When the officer asks for your drivers license and registration.... tell him where it is and then get it. If you are carrying... heck, even if you are not carrying but have a permit to do so, declare it immediately. Don't move those hands. Cut the tension. ASK how you should handle the situation and then follow the officers instructions slowly and exactly. It is common courtesy, whether it cuts you a break or not. You may be the first stop after a felony stop and cutting the tension may be overwhelmingly appreciated.

IMHO anyway.

Ryobi
03-18-2012, 06:28
This. It isn't rocket science. Everyone has their own opinion on this. In fact, get two CCW guys together and we get THREE opinions. The following is just my humble opinion......

When I cross the border, even though I carry a NEXUS ID card which permits me to cross without interview or inspection, I present BOTH my NEXUS card AND my passport. If I am transporting firearms or explosives I declare that I am doing so and include my permit(s) in what I hand to the border officer. Why? Because it is either required or it is common courtesy. No more no less.

When I am stopped and I have a firearm on board or on my person, I keep my inside dome light on and my hands on the steering wheel in plain sight. I ask my passengers to do the same (keep hands in plain sight). I don't fumble for a wallet. IMMEDIATELY on making contact, whether required to or not I declare that I am carrying or transporting and ask the officer how they would like to handle this. The one time I was stopped while transporting I was asked where the gun was and advised it was locked up in a gunsafe in the back of my SUV, was asked to open the rear hatch, which I did. When the officer saw the safe I was asked for ID. And then was wished bon voyage and on my way. End of story.

Did I need to do this? Nope. I did it as a matter of courtesy as for those of us that have made a vehicle stop in the dark of night, not knowing what to expect, that small common courtesy cuts the tension by 99.9%. Of that I can assure you.

So. My humble experience and advice is to do exactly what I have described. Don't fumble in the glove box as the officer approaches. Nor under the seat nor behind your back to get your wallet nor in your purse to get your paperwork. TURN ON YOUR DOME LIGHT AND KEEP YOUR HANDS IN PLAIN SIGHT AND OPEN YOUR WINDOW ALL THE WAY, RAIN OR SHINE. When the officer asks for your drivers license and registration.... tell him where it is and then get it. If you are carrying... heck, even if you are not carrying but have a permit to do so, declare it immediately. Don't move those hands. Cut the tension. ASK how you should handle the situation and then follow the officers instructions slowly and exactly. It is common courtesy, whether it cuts you a break or not. You may be the first stop after a felony stop and cutting the tension may be overwhelmingly appreciated.

IMHO anyway.

Sam Spade
06-22-2012, 17:47
Been 90 days, so both criminal cases and cop complaints should be resolved by now.

Anything?

Philo Beddoe
06-22-2012, 19:05
You weren't legit (registration), you got pulled over. Cops did their job (I love how one talked to you with his eyes). Are you clear on how you could avoid this in the future?

You might wanna back off the Dirty Harry movies some,

Philo Beddoe
06-22-2012, 19:13
Cop was having a bad day? That's an excuse for abusive behavior? When you get a badge and a gun, we get to demand that you have the discipline to treat people fairly, regardless what kind of day you are having.

Would you accept the "I was having a bad day excuse" if your heart surgeon screwed up your transplant?

You are a cop, you don't get to have a bad day. Man up, you wre not hired as a carhop.

RussP
06-22-2012, 19:40
Been 90 days, so both criminal cases and cop complaints should be resolved by now.

Anything?Funny, I thought he'd come back and tell us how he beat the the ticket and the officer lost his job.

RussP
06-22-2012, 19:41
And it looks like it's a good time to close this one...