Legalize it? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TCmofo
02-28-2012, 08:12
Going to a public vote in the state of Colorado. I am for it, legalize it and tax it!

http://news.yahoo.com/recreational-marijuana-measure-put-voters-034555395.html

Lampshade
02-28-2012, 08:13
Ah, another one of these threads.

In before someone with a signature line referencing liberty/small government voices their support for prohibition.

Its for the children.

Only the lazy, the stupid, hippies, or all of the above use dope.

I knew a guy once who got high and XYZ happened to him.

Oh yea, you want stoned drivers on the road?

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 08:16
I strongly support the 9th and 10th Amendment rights of the people of Colorado to do with marijuana as they see fit.

The only thing I ask is, please don't tax it. Enough with the taxes already.

TCmofo
02-28-2012, 08:18
@ Lampshade, lol, I know right? I just put this up because for me it was shocking to see this finally going to a public vote. I'm 32, and I am pretty sure I will see weed at the very least be decriminalized in the US, but with measures coming up like this already....legalization could happen.

Bren
02-28-2012, 08:34
I agree. Legalize it and tax it. Even control of its use would be more effective in a legalized environment. Complete prohibition is much like the "just say no" campaign or "abstinence" sex education - more a denial of responsibility than a solution.

Here in KY we can't even get casino gambling passed and the churches pouring the money and political support against it are partnered with gambling interests in neighboring states and a state senator who is a serious gambler in those out-of-state casinos. Same issues come up with drugs, alcohol and everything else that is prohibited.

frank4570
02-28-2012, 08:42
Definitely make alcohol and tobacco illegal.

Z71bill
02-28-2012, 08:46
Legalize it - sure

But why tax it?

Are you TAX IT! types also for a higher gas tax? What about jacking SS tax or property tax - or sales tax?

Giving our stupid government more cash is about the last thing I want to do-

Government is already TOO BIG - giving them more cash so they can buy more power is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. And before you try and say - use the money to pay off the debt - think a little - because then you are saying you agree with all the crap the government does now - and you just want someone to pay for it.

We need to CUT spending and LOWER taxes -

KalashniKEV
02-28-2012, 08:49
Legalize it- and don't tax it excessively.

We should stop taxing anything different than the normal state sales tax rate.

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 08:55
Legalize it - sure

But why tax it?

Are you TAX IT! types also for a higher gas tax? What about jacking SS tax or property tax - or sales tax?

Giving our stupid government more cash is about the last thing I want to do-

Government is already TOO BIG - giving them more cash so they can buy more power is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. And before you try and say - use the money to pay off the debt - think a little - because then you are saying you agree with all the crap the government does now - and you just want someone to pay for it.

We need to CUT spending and LOWER taxes -

its because it involves taxing "the other guy" and taxing something they don't approve of.

You shouldn't have to pay a duty to get your liberty back.

OctoberRust
02-28-2012, 09:01
NOOOOOO :crying:

If they legalize it, there will be blood in the streets and a shooting at every corner.

INB4 thebadone comes in with silly 1 sentence replies to everything. roflroflrofl

KalashniKEV
02-28-2012, 09:02
its because it involves taxing "the other guy" and taxing something they don't approve of.

You shouldn't have to pay a duty to get your liberty back.

+1000

I wonder how many of these tax drunk libs on here ever bought ammunition in Tennessee? How did that feel?

series1811
02-28-2012, 09:04
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

Chuck66
02-28-2012, 09:05
Legalize it and tax it the way you tax any other product sold on the open market. You have to pay for infrastructure and vital services some way. Why not tax it?

That said, I really won't mind if it gets jacked up with an additional "sin tax". Other than sales tax, taxing vices tends to be about the only way to get any revenue out of the 1/2 of the country that doesn't pay any income taxes. If it weren't for taxes on beer, cigarettes and the lottery, they'd never contribute anything.

D3S3RT_P3NGU1N
02-28-2012, 09:12
I agree, there is no reason why we shouldn't legalize it and regulate it in a similar way to alcohol

07 LMB Z06
02-28-2012, 09:17
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

I imagine it would be charged at the register just like tax on any other retail item.

Dave.1
02-28-2012, 09:42
The medicinal marijuana laws here were kind of a joke. I think most people that voted for it thought you'd get your pot at the drug store not the same guy that was always on the street corner. Didn't think entire college populations would develop glaucoma.

I say legalize and skip the sin taxes, unless you want to tax the nuts that come to my door with the Watchtower for paper recycling costs.

The most telling thing to me was the Interior Minister of Mexico getting upset when California was going to legalize. They blame the US for their drug problems but if we legalize there go Mexico's profits.

Dave

dango
02-28-2012, 09:50
hOW MANY TAX DOLLARS ARE WAISTED ON TRYING TO STOP IT? Turn the liability into an asset!--Leagalize.

Dennis in MA
02-28-2012, 10:13
Legal, not legal. I don't really care. BUT. . . Anyone who decides, "Oh, we can tax THAT TOO" is just part of the bigger problem. Period.

"Legalize it and tax it" is a political strategy of the small minded and big government. Period.

Bren
02-28-2012, 10:22
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

Because a legal marijuana industry cannot help but put the illegal growers out of business, much like legal alcohol did with prohibition bootleggers. Here in KY will still get to see that battle, when a county legalizes alcohol and the bootleggers fight it.

There simply would not be profit to make it worth the risk of growing illegally, if there was a legal commercial product. A farmer grows marijuana and sells it to a wholeseller who sells to a retailer - the taxes and tax documents would work exactly like when a farmer grows corn and seels it to the Delmonte to can and send to the grocery store. Making it legal actually takes the industry out of the hands of the dopers - your Saturday night drunks are not the guys making jack Daniels.

law enforcement typically uses price increases in illegal drugs to measure the effectiveness of enforcement, because the price goes up with the risk. However, the biggest part of the price is the profit for taking the risk, so it is also a measure of the profitiability and attractiveness of the market to risk-takers. End the risk - end the profit - end the market.

hyperstyx
02-28-2012, 10:29
Legalize it and tax it the way you tax any other product sold on the open market. You have to pay for infrastructure and vital services some way. Why not tax it?

That said, I really won't mind if it gets jacked up with an additional "sin tax". Other than sales tax, taxing vices tends to be about the only way to get any revenue out of the 1/2 of the country that doesn't pay any income taxes. If it weren't for taxes on beer, cigarettes and the lottery, they'd never contribute anything.


Inclined to agree with this, as well as other arguments in favor. In addition, the results of this experiment would likely furnish data that would make for interesting argument.

Lampshade
02-28-2012, 10:37
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

I imagine it would be charged at the register just like tax on any other retail item.

One would hope that this would be obvious, but I guess not, lol.

Mushinto
02-28-2012, 10:43
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.

Maybe they can take the restrictions off of machine guns and silencers while they're at it.

TCmofo
02-28-2012, 10:48
I was just saying tax it because if it were to be legalized, I would think that would be part of the approval process....I don't agree with it, but I just think that is how it would play out.

dango
02-28-2012, 10:49
Legal, not legal. I don't really care. BUT. . . Anyone who decides, "Oh, we can tax THAT TOO" is just part of the bigger problem. Period.

"Legalize it and tax it" is a political strategy of the small minded and big government. Period.

Do you partake in alcohol beverages ? Seems to work there ok.

Call me small minded.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 10:53
I actually get to vote on this one but before I can make up my mind I need to see more wisdom from the GT brain trust. So far we only have a bunch of hippies answering.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Lampshade
02-28-2012, 10:55
Legal, not legal. I don't really care. BUT. . . Anyone who decides, "Oh, we can tax THAT TOO" is just part of the bigger problem. Period.

"Legalize it and tax it" is a political strategy of the small minded and big government. Period.

And apathy towards liberty is one of the best tools of big government.

"Legal, not legal. I don't really care."

I tend to view a tax as being far less intrusive than imprisonment.

TCmofo
02-28-2012, 10:57
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.

Maybe they can take the restrictions off of machine guns and silencers while they're at it.

Agreed, but this is a huge step...more states start doing this and the ball rolls...."medical mary jane" was just the start.

TCmofo
02-28-2012, 10:59
I actually get to vote on this one but before I can make up my mind I need to see more wisdom from the GT brain trust. So far we only have a bunch of hippies answering.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Currently, active duty Air Force with combat tours to Afghanistan and Iraq. :wavey:

SPIN2010
02-28-2012, 10:59
Statement: Stoned drivers on the road, in the schools, and at work.

Fact: Do not you have them now (kids huffing and driving? The big business owners drinking and driving? The house moms using xanax like popcorn?) Etc. :upeyes:

Taxation is an answer to many problems facing our resource deleted country. Might just put a crimp in the illegal trade south of the border too?

Continue substance testing if you do not want them in your business ... test positive, go away.

Just saying.

ocjackel
02-28-2012, 11:08
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

Well, I would assume that if they buy it in stores they would at the very least be subject to sales tax, something they couldn't avoid.

I have not read the proposed law but would it be legal for people to grow their own? From what I understand 'weed' grows like, well, a weed. Users could plant some next to their tomato plants.

My quick google search found that California collected nearly $100 million in sales taxes on medical marijuana sales in 2010.

I suspect that gradually more and more states will legalize/de-criminalize pot as they see what a cash cow it can be. I suspect it will spread similarly to how gambling has spread across the country via Indian Casinos and State lotteries.

OctoberRust
02-28-2012, 11:12
I actually get to vote on this one but before I can make up my mind I need to see more wisdom from the GT brain trust. So far we only have a bunch of hippies answering.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


Carrys can educate you on your vote. He's one intelligent individual. :rofl:

DanaT
02-28-2012, 11:26
Carrys can educate you on your vote. He's one intelligent individual. :rofl:

See. In knew help would be on the way.




Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

gjk5
02-28-2012, 11:30
Legalize it if you want, but don't bother taxing it. The people who use and smoke marijuana right now, aren't exactly the type of people who really give a damn about following the law. What makes you think for a second they would pay taxes on it? (you know several states already have laws taxing it and I don't know any dopers anywhere who pay them).

Ummm, that's because in most states by paying the taxes on it you are admitting to committing the crime of posessing or growing it. Medical MJ is legal here and they sure have not had a problem collecting taxes on it.

Because a legal marijuana industry cannot help but put the illegal growers out of business, much like legal alcohol did with prohibition bootleggers. Here in KY will still get to see that battle, when a county legalizes alcohol and the bootleggers fight it.

There simply would not be profit to make it worth the risk of growing illegally, if there was a legal commercial product. A farmer grows marijuana and sells it to a wholeseller who sells to a retailer - the taxes and tax documents would work exactly like when a farmer grows corn and seels it to the Delmonte to can and send to the grocery store. Making it legal actually takes the industry out of the hands of the dopers - your Saturday night drunks are not the guys making jack Daniels.

law enforcement typically uses price increases in illegal drugs to measure the effectiveness of enforcement, because the price goes up with the risk. However, the biggest part of the price is the profit for taking the risk, so it is also a measure of the profitiability and attractiveness of the market to risk-takers. End the risk - end the profit - end the market.

Very well stated.


There was a high end MMJ shop down the street from my office for a while, it is funny to hear everyone rant about "stoners". All of the nice cars, guys in suits, soccer moms in SUV's sure didn't look like your typical stoners to me.

work2ride
02-28-2012, 11:43
There was a high end MMJ shop down the street from my office for a while, it is funny to hear everyone rant about "stoners". All of the nice cars, guys in suits, soccer moms in SUV's sure didn't look like your typical stoners to me.[/QUOTE]

So true. I have several friends who habitually smoke it. Most of them are college educated, 2 with masters degrees. I don't smoke but I have no problem with it and think it should be legal.

ray9898
02-28-2012, 11:45
I would be careful asking for high taxes because society will still foot the bill in the end. The vast majority of illegal drug users do not have legit jobs so they steal and rob to support them self. Setting the bar high will only mean they need to steal to support their habit. Legalizing the drug will not make the users any more lawful.

jason10mm
02-28-2012, 11:52
I agree with legalization and taxation. The .gov has to make revenue some way, I'd rather they didn't tax my income and investments but my goods purchases (as that affects everyone in the country, including tourists, illegals, and welfare recipients) so "sin taxes" providing they are reasonable, are acceptible to me. Make the taxes too high and folks go to the black market, so there is a rational limit to what they can milk out of a product.

I'd also legalize an over the counter weak form of oxycodone to all the drug seekers would stop having to go to the EC. Since the gov't is in the health care business they need to find ways to reduce the health care burden, eliminating oxy drug seekers is a good start.

Face it, the only reason alcohol and tobacco are legal today is because they have some historical basis and attempts a prohibition in the past were dismal failures. I'd say pot and oxy (in the natural form of heroin/morphine) share the historical legacy and are just as "safe" when used appropriately, have just as much propensity for abuse, and are just as big a prohibition failure. Prohibiting adults from indulging is a huge "nanny state" problem, but I also agree that the punishment for endangering the public should be severe.

JASV.17
02-28-2012, 11:52
Legalize it, treat it the same as alcohol.

Gareth68
02-28-2012, 11:54
I would be careful asking for high taxes because society will still foot the bill in the end. The vast majority of illegal drug users do not have legit jobs so they steal and rob to support them self. Setting the bar high will only mean they need to steal to support their habit. Legalizing the drug will not make the users any more lawful.

Please show your source data.

ocjackel
02-28-2012, 11:55
I would be careful asking for high taxes because society will still foot the bill in the end. The vast majority of illegal drug users do not have legit jobs so they steal and rob to support them self. Setting the bar high will only mean they need to steal to support their habit. Legalizing the drug will not make the users any more lawful.

I say charge sales tax on it just like every other good. This would keep the price low enough that stealing to support a habit would be greatly reduced.

The other side of the coin is that marijuana is the one drug that most people can grow themselves quite easily. Why would the hard core users even bother buying it?

Snaps
02-28-2012, 11:55
legalize, and tax the hell out of it. Make money for the state/fed, put weed dealers out of business. Maybe they'll start selling harder stuff but there's not as big a market there from what I've seen.

OctoberRust
02-28-2012, 11:56
I would be careful asking for high taxes because society will still foot the bill in the end. The vast majority of illegal drug users do not have legit jobs so they steal and rob to support them self. Setting the bar high will only mean they need to steal to support their habit. Legalizing the drug will not make the users any more lawful.


The ones that steal for drug money are not the ones we're talking about. They should be punished for theft. We're talking about ones who contribute to society (much like ones who drink alcohol) and who's deeds do not carry a victim. When this is illegal, then it creates a black market.

With your mentality, we should make CCW and Open carry illegal. Then when discussion comes up on why/if we should legalize carrying a firearm, we could argue "the thugs carrying guns won't make them any more legal than if we legalized it". Punish the criminals who commit crimes that have a victim. Not someone who wants to smoke a plant in the comfort of their home after work.

ray9898
02-28-2012, 12:00
Please show your source data.

Years as a LEO arresting those who burglarize, rob, possess stolen property and who are in possession of illegal drugs which has allowed me to see countless court cases from the arrest to the final conviction.

Lampshade
02-28-2012, 12:00
The vast majority of illegal drug users do not have legit jobs so they steal and rob to support them self

Put the D.A.R.E literature down.

Lampshade
02-28-2012, 12:03
Years as a LEO arresting those who burglarize, rob, possess stolen property and who are in possession of illegal drugs which has allowed me to see countless court cases from the arrest to the final conviction.

Perfect example of a person's views being skewed by their job.

As a cop, you run into the ****birds, that's the nature of the beast.

rideco
02-28-2012, 12:03
Well this has already been attempted in 2006 in CO and it failed. If my memory serves me correctly Colorado Springs was the area that had the strongest resistance to the bill. Here is my take but I have not read the current proposal and I dont know the details of the bill yet. Lets pass this bill and tax it. Yes that is a republican saying tax it. Lets take that tax money and put 100% of it back into the public school system. I dont care if the bridges are going to hell thats CDOTS's problem. Lets support the children of this state and give them the best education we can. I swear if this approach was used for the entire nation the country would be better off in so many ways. The drug cartels in Mexico would be given a major blow to there income and border security issues would be greatly reduced. Our nation would have a much better education system. Teachers would be better paid for the thankless jobs they do. I dont know about the rest of the country but CO has had to have MAJOR cuts in public school funding in the past few years. This trend must stop and we need to give the kids of today/leaders of tomorrow the best chance at success we can if we dont want to start playing second fiddle to South Korea, Japan, and other countries that are putting a premium on education. I am not saying its a silver bullet I am just saying lets think where we can use the extra tax income for good instead of the excess waste it currently is.
rideco

flame suit on!!!

Glock20 10mm
02-28-2012, 12:06
Legalize it, tax it and end the stupid war on drugs and a great majority of our crime issues go away. Portugal has proven this already as has Denmark.

ray9898
02-28-2012, 12:12
LOL....here we go. Now everyone knows no less than 6 successful guys with triple masters who smoke daily when they get done saving the world. No one knows a single person who is a scumbag criminal who victimizes others to support their habits.

I could not care less about weed and I believe it should be legalized and treated similar to alcohol. The fact is society still does not accept it like it does alcohol and its use is not normal or widely accepted with the law abiding people in society. Look at California for example, even though it is one of the more liberal areas in this nation a measure similar to this could not be passed. That says a lot.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 12:13
Years as a LEO arresting those who burglarize, rob, possess stolen property and who are in possession of illegal drugs which has allowed me to see countless court cases from the arrest to the final conviction.

Here is your big chance. What can you state without emotion and a bunch of "what ifs" will happen if mj is legalized? You have the chance to affect a vote. If we vote for it, it's only a matter of time before before it spreads.

So far is your big argument is that it will put drug dealers out of work and they will have to find new criminal activity therefore we should keep it legal. Not very unemotional response. Maybe the jails and courts will be less crowded on possession charges?

So convince me.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Carrys
02-28-2012, 12:15
The only thing I ask is, please don't tax it. Enough with the taxes already.

And there's the rub my friend...........there's the rub.

Seems many of those who would like to see it legalized tend to think of all the self use plants they can then grow to keep them high until the second coming. They don't think of nor certainly want the sort of govt control over it's growing/use that is bound to come.......and I mean BOUND to come. I give alcohol, cigarettes, and all other self use type of "sin taxes" that are in place now. Shucks, name me any other substance that folks like to use/do to help them "depart from reality" that isn't regulated to high heaven?

They don't evidently understand just what sort of roll the govt and all those faceless/nameless corporations they blame for it not being legalized now..... will play in it all me thinks. And don't forget your kindly friendly and oh so much just for your safety FDA in it all. The smoke from it contains......well, smoke, and THC...........bad for you and we must keep it from you.:embarassed:

No, I don't see any home grown in their futures as they apparently hope/wish to see.

IMO, there will be no "home high gardens", no growing for personal use and definitely no pot without massive govt control and taxes. Such is just their wishful thinking and desires at play IMO. Just as the Feds and big business have put the squash on "Moonshiners", so too will the personal use grower see things in place for them that scares them, angers them, and is all done to prevent them from growing so much as a weed..........please pardon the pun.

If there is even a tiny bit of as much money in it that everyone who says "tax it and no more money problems for us!" says there is, they must surly be some kind of knotheads to think the govt, business, and the FDA will ever let them grow their own, just for personal use ya know.:whistling:

Just their own hopes, desires, and wants to stay high as a kite as they go through life dreams IMO.




Definitely make alcohol and tobacco illegal.


Hey!

Didn't get as many bites as ya thought ya might while trolling, eh?

Must be using the wrong bait?:dunno:




I actually get to vote on this one but before I can make up my mind I need to see more wisdom from the GT brain trust. So far we only have a bunch of hippies answering.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Now Dana....................thought you said you were the sort who voted and made up their mind on their own volition..... and didn't need everyone else's approval and ok to fall in line?


Well why not.....................shucks, I was going to say just make up your own mind, dang.:shocked:



Carrys can educate you on your vote. He's one intelligent individual. :rofl:


Why..... thank you for the recommendation good sir. Glad to see my efforts with you haven't been for naught. Yours may not have been the easiest case, but one of the more morale building, thanks again for the shout out.:wavey:





Boy Howdy, nothing like a satisfied customer and a hot cup of Bosco to start the day, yes indeedy.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 12:16
So how is it my business if someone smokes weed in their house or has homosexual sex?

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

ray9898
02-28-2012, 12:19
Perfect example of a person's views being skewed by their job.

As a cop, you run into the ****birds, that's the nature of the beast.

Not really. I run into all classes of people in all sorts if situations. The ones who are related to drugs are normally of the common 'street criminal' class, those above that are mainly domestic assaults, DUI, and the like. The norm in that class is alcohol and prescription meds, for illegal drugs to be a factor is very rare.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 12:23
IMO, there will be no "home high gardens", no growing for personal use and definitely no pot without massive govt control and taxes. Such is just their wishful thinking and desires at play IMO. Just as the Feds and big business have put the squash on "Moonshiners", .


The one problem with this argument is that i can legally brew beer and wine at home as well as distill as long as it is small quantities and i don't sell it.

Dana

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

rideco
02-28-2012, 12:24
Here is your big chance. What can you state without emotion and a bunch of "what ifs" will happen if mj is legalized? You have the chance to affect a vote. If we vote for it, it's only a matter of time before before it spreads.

So far is your big argument is that it will put drug dealers out of work and they will have to find new criminal activity therefore we should keep it legal. Not very unemotional response. Maybe the jails and courts will be less crowded on possession charges?

So convince me.

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine


I am going to chime in here. Have you noticed a "major" change in our state since Med MJ has gone crazy in the past couple of years? I for one have not see pot crazed people running lose in the streets. Well except those occupy clowns who need to get a job but I think that has more to do with economics vs MJ. Has there been Med MJ places robbed and crime at those business yes. But on the flip side I have also read many stories of Banks, liquor stores, and regular pharmacies robbed as well so I consider that a push. My point is lets make it legal and use the tax revenue for good.
rideco

ocjackel
02-28-2012, 12:26
[QUOTE=Carrys;18643028]A

IMO, there will be no "home high gardens", no growing for personal use and definitely no pot without massive govt control and taxes. Such is just their wishful thinking and desires at play IMO. Just as the Feds and big business have put the squash on "Moonshiners", so too will the personal use grower see things in place for them that scares them, angers them, and is all done to prevent them from growing so much as a weed..........please pardon the pun.

I



I can legally brew my own beer, make my own wine, distill my own booze. It's been that way for decades. Maybe the Feds and Big Business are just biding their time?
:dunno:

jason10mm
02-28-2012, 12:36
Distillation is illegal in the US without a license. Where/how are you doing it?

I'm of the opinion that in general people are lazy and if they can get commercially produced MJ at a reasonable price they won't bother growing their own. Making beer is very easy and is cheaper than buying it but beer sales seem to be pretty high none the less.

ray9898
02-28-2012, 12:38
Here is your big chance. What can you state without emotion and a bunch of "what ifs" will happen if mj is legalized? You have the chance to affect a vote. If we vote for it, it's only a matter of time before before it spreads.

So far is your big argument is that it will put drug dealers out of work and they will have to find new criminal activity therefore we should keep it legal. Not very unemotional response. Maybe the jails and courts will be less crowded on possession charges?

So convince me.

Dana



I haven't made any of those arguments you mention. My comments dealt with the addicts and the fact legalizing the drug will not make them upstanding citizens that pick up a job the next day. Their substance abusing lifestyle, not the law, is what makes them drains on society. All I said was either way the 'good people in society will still pay the tab'.

For the dealers, unless you legalize all drugs most dealers won't be put out of business because most dabble in a bit of everything.

These discussions always portray that the "the government" or "the cops" are responsible for many substances being illegal and ignore that those laws are in place because the majority of everyday citizens want them there. Even when put to a vote the citizens will not even legalize MJ which is undisputably at the bottom of what our society has criminalized.

Like I said before, my personal opinion is legalize so I am not trying to convince you of anything. I am poiting out it is not going to be the great fix all some make it out to be.

KIMFAB
02-28-2012, 12:41
I see this as the same as the gay marriage thing.

It will be defeated at first and then after several more resubmissions and defeats will finally be approved.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 12:51
These discussions always portray that the "the government" or "the cops" are responsible for many substances being illegal and ignore that those laws are in place because the majority of everyday citizens want them there. Even when put to a vote the citizens will not even legalize MJ which is undisputably at the bottom of what our society has criminalized.

be.

The difference being this is a thread about the citizens of a state that the ballot initiative works well in, getting to vote on if it should be legal not what some representatives think.

The reactions by the LEO can be taken as what LEO, or the LEO want us to think is their unified response to all things LEO related, think the voters should pass.

Dana


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Tongo
02-28-2012, 12:53
For the dealers, unless you legalize all drugs most dealers won't be put out of business because most dabble in a bit of everything.

For the record, I think it should be legalized and regulated like alcohol. Tax it at a reasonable rate.

BUT, and this pertains to what ray9898 said...this won't kill off the dealers and the cartels. To much money and infrastructure to destroy them. They (the cartels) have a massive investment in the funneling of drugs from south/central america to the US. They won't simply roll over and say "oh man, let's just give up". They'll shift the resources to moving more cocain, or people, or whatever will make them money. They'll still be as big a problem as they are now.

gjk5
02-28-2012, 12:57
LOL....here we go. Now everyone knows no less than 6 successful guys with triple masters who smoke daily when they get done saving the world. No one knows a single person who is a scumbag criminal who victimizes others to support their habits.

.

Maybe because we don't socialize with scumbag criminals? Maybe because our sphere of influence is professionals, some of whom have MMJ licenses. Just a guess.

So how is it my business if someone smokes weed in their house or has homosexual sex?

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

it's not.

DanaT
02-28-2012, 13:00
I am going to chime in here. Have you noticed a "major" change in our state since Med MJ has gone crazy in the past couple of years? I for one have not see pot crazed people running lose in the streets. Well except those occupy clowns who need to get a job but I think that has more to do with economics vs MJ. Has there been Med MJ places robbed and crime at those business yes. But on the flip side I have also read many stories of Banks, liquor stores, and regular pharmacies robbed as well so I consider that a push. My point is lets make it legal and use the tax revenue for good.
rideco

I have seen about much change as when shall issue ccw was passed. Blood still isn't running in the streets as predicted and people aren't burning weed in their fireplace.

I did see some TV interviews with Dr Reefer complaining about not being able to get a bank account....

Dana


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rideco
02-28-2012, 13:04
I see this as the same as the gay marriage thing.

It will be defeated at first and then after several more resubmissions and defeats will finally be approved.

Ok I will just go ahead and comment on this as well. In the Declaration of Independence it is stated:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

I see gay marriage as the pursuit of happiness. If that is what they want no one has the right to say they cant do it. I dont care if they take the "marriage" tag off of it we have no right to tell people they cant marry who they want. They are doing nothing wrong to you or me and if that is what makes them happy so be it.


I just want to point out that I am not a pot smoking gay guy. I am just an average American who wants this country to continue to the best country in the world. I want us to continue to be leaders and examples to the rest of the world in technology, medical research, social reform, education, and human rights. I know its a long hard task ahead but this country has proven time and time again we can do it.
rideco

gjk5
02-28-2012, 13:09
I am going to chime in here. Have you noticed a "major" change in our state since Med MJ has gone crazy in the past couple of years? I for one have not see pot crazed people running lose in the streets. Well except those occupy clowns who need to get a job but I think that has more to do with economics vs MJ. Has there been Med MJ places robbed and crime at those business yes. But on the flip side I have also read many stories of Banks, liquor stores, and regular pharmacies robbed as well so I consider that a push. My point is lets make it legal and use the tax revenue for good.
rideco


No major change other than positive sales tax revenue.....

voyager4520
02-28-2012, 13:20
If I remember correctly the 2006 vote was something like ~400,000 to ~700,000. Funny, I knew a bunch of other people in 2006 who wanted it legalized like I did, but I was the only one who actually voted.

I'm going to vote to legalize it but I don't think it'll get enough votes.

RC-RAMIE
02-28-2012, 13:38
Legalize it and tax it the way you tax any other product sold on the open market. You have to pay for infrastructure and vital services some way. Why not tax it?

That said, I really won't mind if it gets jacked up with an additional "sin tax". Other than sales tax, taxing vices tends to be about the only way to get any revenue out of the 1/2 of the country that doesn't pay any income taxes. If it weren't for taxes on beer, cigarettes and the lottery, they'd never contribute anything.

How about Ammo tax?

DanaT
02-28-2012, 13:40
How about Ammo tax?

It is already present. Its called Federal Excise Tax and is about 10-11% on firearms and ammo.


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syntaxerrorsix
02-28-2012, 13:43
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.

Maybe they can take the restrictions off of machine guns and silencers while they're at it.

If we are going to start ignoring unconstitutional laws that's a great place to start

RC-RAMIE
02-28-2012, 13:45
Perfect example of a person's views being skewed by their job.

As a cop, you run into the ****birds, that's the nature of the beast.

Agreed ex LEO and one of the lessons I learned after leaving was my views of drug use was wrong.

Dennis in MA
02-28-2012, 13:47
And apathy towards liberty is one of the best tools of big government.

"Legal, not legal. I don't really care."

I tend to view a tax as being far less intrusive than imprisonment.

I can see cases for both sides. So, I'm apathetic. Sue me. :rofl:

Are speed limits on highways infringements of our freedoms? Esp. when it was a federally mandated 55??? (Speed limits are not in the Constitution, nor the power of Big Uncle to set them. LOL)




As far as no home growing if it becomes legal, yeah, keep telling yourself that.

I'm pretty sure that people make their own wine and beer all the time. Without massive taxes paid to Uncle and the state. And Moonshiners are doing quite well, IIRC. Heck, if you take that Moonshine fake-TV show as fact, the local authoratahz couldn't arrest a tree for leafing the scene of a crime. :rofl:


Honestly, this is similar to Ghey Marriage. The subset that this impacts is disastrously small.

jbotstein1
02-28-2012, 13:55
I think it'd be interesting if in all these pot threads, each poster had to put their age at the beginning or end of their post. I have a feeling that the 40 and younger crowd would be overwhelmingly in support of legalization. It is just a matter of time until that age group is in control of legislation, and pot will be legalized.

31

DanaT
02-28-2012, 14:05
I think it'd be interesting if in all these pot threads, each poster had to put their age at the beginning or end of their post. I have a feeling that the 40 and younger crowd would be overwhelmingly in support of legalization. It is just a matter of time until that age group is in control of legislation, and pot will be legalized.

31

I fit in your age bracket that "supports" it.

Of course I still live in my mom's basement....


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Fox
02-28-2012, 14:07
The problem with marijuana is that it kills ambition. Too much weed and people become lazy, they can't focus, and they become content to live in poverty and sloth.

jbotstein1
02-28-2012, 14:09
I've started working an afternoon shift once a week at a golf course in exchange for free golf. I am the starter, clean carts, etc. Last week these 2 elderly gentlemen came in after playing. I asked how they did, and they replied that it was a wonderful round and they had so much fun, but they couldn't tell me why. A few minutes later as I was cleaning out their cart, I found out why. Pretty funny. They were probably in their 70's.

jbotstein1
02-28-2012, 14:10
The problem with marijuana is that it kills ambition. Too much weed and people become lazy, they can't focus, and they become content to live in poverty and sloth.

Yea. Our past however many Presidents of the country were lazy sloths who lived in poverty.

Carrys
02-28-2012, 14:16
The one problem with this argument is that i can legally brew beer and wine at home as well as distill as long as it is small quantities and i don't sell it.

Dana

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

[quote]

I can legally brew my own beer, make my own wine, distill my own booze. It's been that way for decades. Maybe the Feds and Big Business are just biding their time?
:dunno:



And that beer and wine that they allow you to make, in oh so small amounts........ are both still perfectly legal. They just let you brew your own small amounts. Why, they're both legal aren't they? Oh....that's right, they want the taxes. I see.

But you don't think there will be any limits on what and how much you're "allowed" to grow once it's legal and open to that nasty old big business produce under their own brand name in their own process do you?

And you don't believe that a substance they'll claim is so dangerous that it's been listed as a dangerous drug with no medical benefit for all those decades....... will be allowed to be grown for use in quantities that please all dreamers, with just a **poof**, eh?






Well, y'all could be right and I could be wrong..............we'll see some day I suppose.:wavey:

Carrys
02-28-2012, 14:19
Yea. Our past however many Presidents of the country were lazy sloths who lived in poverty.

Ah, but they may have also been amoung the greatest we ever saw as well, if only they hadn't toked up.



But now, we'll never know.:wavey:

DanaT
02-28-2012, 14:20
The problem with marijuana is that it kills ambition. Too much weed and people become lazy, they can't focus, and they become content to live in poverty and sloth.

So?

Now you want to tell people that they must have ambition?

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

jhoagland
02-28-2012, 14:21
Again as a Judge once said,"The war on drugs has already been won, and we didn't win it."
Yep, put those bad pot smokers in jail. (where they can really learn to be bad). That is just brilliant!

OctoberRust
02-28-2012, 14:24
If we are going to start ignoring unconstitutional laws that's a great place to start


This just may have to be my sig line.

RC-RAMIE
02-28-2012, 14:33
It is already present. Its called Federal Excise Tax and is about 10-11% on firearms and ammo.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I responded to quickly didn't ask it right, I meant to ask if he is ok with paying the extra tax on ammo.

Sharky7
02-28-2012, 14:34
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51P27GAQKML._SL500_AA300_.jpg

syntaxerrorsix
02-28-2012, 14:37
This just may have to be my sig line.
Do me a favor and add a period to the end of it :wavey:

dango
02-28-2012, 15:18
The problem with marijuana is that it kills ambition. Too much weed and people become lazy, they can't focus, and they become content to live in poverty and sloth.

I have not taken a puff in 7 years but back in the day,I had a mundane,boring ass , factory job,weed made me an over achiever,we set all time production records that month.Stupid is as stupid does-Lazy is as lazy does,it ain't the weed.

Bren
02-28-2012, 15:39
So?

Now you want to tell people that they must have ambition?

Dana


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Which is one of the many reasons I support legalization.

The fewer people with ambition, the easier the competition in life. The more people playing video games and eating Doritos, the more valuable the ones who aren't become.

Legalize it!

Sharky7
02-28-2012, 15:48
Please show your source data.

*Real life*

OctoberRust
02-28-2012, 15:50
*Real life*


Interesting claim. For every "real life" claim I hear on the prohibitionist's side, I also hear "real life" claim from the legalize it crowd.

You run a strong/concrete argument sir!


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

syntaxerrorsix
02-28-2012, 15:53
Which is one of the many reasons I support legalization.

The fewer people with ambition, the easier the competition in life. The more people playing video games and eating Doritos, the more valuable the ones who aren't become.

Legalize it!


That's assuming that legalization is going to increase the number of users or that prohibition is preventing.. anything at all. History really doesn't support the theory.

kingclassic
02-28-2012, 15:58
NO NEW TAXES But I wonder how important that would be because the stuff grows like, well a weed.

Wastelander
02-28-2012, 16:03
https://myuni.adelaide.edu.au/webapps/lobj-journal-bb_bb60/blog/AU_ROLE_0109/_3886678_1/Home?cmd=GetImage&systemId=f606ad58-47f5-4488-8254-722341a4b726__0.jpg



LEGALIZE IT

Sharky7
02-28-2012, 16:04
Interesting claim. For every "real life" claim I hear on the prohibitionist's side, I also hear "real life" claim from the legalize it crowd.

You run a strong/concrete argument sir!


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

First off, so you are not confused - check out what the quoted statement was about. It has nothing to do with a statement of legalize or prohibition.

NOLA_glock
02-28-2012, 16:31
I'm all for legalization. However, "taxing the hell out of it" does not make sense to me. If our government is broke, let them get their spending habits in order--don't just throw more money at them.

hyperstyx
02-28-2012, 17:15
An objective point of view concerning cannabis legalization could be arrived at by evaluating the history of effectiveness and efficiency in maintaining it as criminal.

Exercising control of it, at least to the extent alcohol and tobacco products are controlled, is a gov't given.

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 19:51
Legalize it and tax it the way you tax any other product sold on the open market. You have to pay for infrastructure and vital services some way. Why not tax it?



The government has more than enough money already.

That said, I really won't mind if it gets jacked up with an additional "sin tax". Other than sales tax, taxing vices tends to be about the only way to get any revenue out of the 1/2 of the country that doesn't pay any income taxes. If it weren't for taxes on beer, cigarettes and the lottery, they'd never contribute anything.

Oh good Lord......I bet you consider yourself a conservative too

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 19:52
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.



Unconstitutional, illegitimate, immoral federal law

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 19:53
"Legalize it and tax it" is a political strategy of the small minded and big government. Period.

Excellent

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 19:54
The problem with marijuana is that it kills ambition. Too much weed and people become lazy, they can't focus, and they become content to live in poverty and sloth.

I can introduce you to half a dozen mj users who have run circles around you in every tangible measure of achievement.

crazymoose
02-28-2012, 19:59
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.

Maybe they can take the restrictions off of machine guns and silencers while they're at it.

As long as it doesn't cross state lines, they might be able to frame it that way. Several states are trying to pick just such a fight with gun laws.

The old Supreme Court decision about how the guy feeding corn to his own hogs was engaging in interstate commerce by not engaging in interstate commerce, thereby affecting the market, was horrible jurisprudence that should be overturned.

stevemc
02-28-2012, 20:13
It's a goddam plant. How about just forget about it. No need to regulate or tax anything. Get the hell out of peoples lives and get one of your own. BTW, many many high level professionals and executives smoke marijuana. It's a multi billion dollar industry.

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 20:16
As long as it doesn't cross state lines, they might be able to frame it that way. Several states are trying to pick just such a fight with gun laws.

The old Supreme Court decision about how the guy feeding corn to his own hogs was engaging in interstate commerce by not engaging in interstate commerce, thereby affecting the market, was horrible jurisprudence that should be overturned.

And that really is the point of the whole marijuana situation, though it is missed or willingly overlooked by so many "conservatives".

Once the people tolerate unconstitutional laws, like marijuana laws, predicated on the commerce clause, the government will extend them elsewhere.....like gun laws and healthcare.

Saber99
02-28-2012, 21:12
Which is one of the many reasons I support legalization.

The fewer people with ambition, the easier the competition in life. The more people playing video games and eating Doritos, the more valuable the ones who aren't become.

Legalize it!

There is truth to this plus there is another factor most don't consider. It's not a coincidence that people who have crappy jobs smoke weed. Easy jobs are boring, smoking weed makes them tolerable. On the surface that sounds like somewhat of a bad thing. But think about it we have a service economy we need these type of people. Somebody has to serve the fries, coffee, cook the food, wash the dishes, sweep the floor. If everybody was a straight arrow super high achiever we'd be a society of suits, with nowhere to eat lunch.
As long as American's insist on their current lifestyle of convenience these jobs are not going anywhere. Someone is ending up working behind the counter. I'd rather they are content with their job, rather than resenting it and taking it out on the customers.

If the person doing the dirty work is stoned and happy why the hell would I care? They're content, I benefit from their needed services and it's one less person interviewing for a position I want.

It's the pursuit of happiness not the pursuit of money.

One does not need a high paying job to be happy, if people can find happiness working a simple job I don't begrudge them at all. It is not my place to tell others how they should live their lives.

certifiedfunds
02-28-2012, 21:21
There is truth to this plus there is another factor most don't consider. It's not a coincidence that people who have crappy jobs smoke weed. Easy jobs are boring, smoking weed makes them tolerable. On the surface that sounds like somewhat of a bad thing. But think about it we have a service economy we need these type of people. Somebody has to serve the fries, coffee, cook the food, wash the dishes, sweep the floor. If everybody was a straight arrow super high achiever we'd be a society of suits, with nowhere to eat lunch.
As long as American's insist on their current lifestyle of convenience these jobs are not going anywhere. Someone is ending up working behind the counter. I'd rather they are content with their job, rather than resenting it and taking it out on the customers.

If the person doing the dirty work is stoned and happy why the hell would I care? They're content, I benefit from their needed services and it's one less person interviewing for a position I want.

It's the pursuit of happiness not the pursuit of money.

One does not need a high paying job to be happy, if people can find happiness working a simple job I don't begrudge them at all. It is not my place to tell others how they should live their lives.

I like the way you think. Welcome!

John Rambo
02-28-2012, 23:26
There is truth to this plus there is another factor most don't consider. It's not a coincidence that people who have crappy jobs smoke weed. Easy jobs are boring, smoking weed makes them tolerable. On the surface that sounds like somewhat of a bad thing. But think about it we have a service economy we need these type of people. Somebody has to serve the fries, coffee, cook the food, wash the dishes, sweep the floor. If everybody was a straight arrow super high achiever we'd be a society of suits, with nowhere to eat lunch.
As long as American's insist on their current lifestyle of convenience these jobs are not going anywhere. Someone is ending up working behind the counter. I'd rather they are content with their job, rather than resenting it and taking it out on the customers.

If the person doing the dirty work is stoned and happy why the hell would I care? They're content, I benefit from their needed services and it's one less person interviewing for a position I want.

It's the pursuit of happiness not the pursuit of money.

One does not need a high paying job to be happy, if people can find happiness working a simple job I don't begrudge them at all. It is not my place to tell others how they should live their lives.

The absolute best IT guy I know smokes weed absolutely daily and without fail when he gets home from work. He makes just shy of 6 figures (a damn good wage down here) a year. And, hes absolutely brilliant in his career field.

Professors at college, the kind who teach the kind of math that would make our heads spin, they're notorious for smoking weed.

I mean, heck, I can go on and on. Or you can just recant your foolish statement.


A loser will always be a loser and a winner will always be a winner. And weed isn't going to change that for them.

Saber99
02-29-2012, 08:41
The absolute best IT guy I know smokes weed absolutely daily and without fail when he gets home from work. He makes just shy of 6 figures (a damn good wage down here) a year. And, hes absolutely brilliant in his career field.

Professors at college, the kind who teach the kind of math that would make our heads spin, they're notorious for smoking weed.

I mean, heck, I can go on and on. Or you can just recant your foolish statement.


A loser will always be a loser and a winner will always be a winner. And weed isn't going to change that for them.
I agree with you weed will not make you dumb if you're smart but it sure as hell won't make you smart if you're dumb.

You misunderstood my point, I'm not implying that only losers smoke weed. I to know many successful people who smoke weed with no issues. But most minimum wage jobs are filled with smokers because smoking makes their job tolerable. Any one who has worked in a restaurant knows that employees there are notorious stoners. That does not mean that every smoker works a minimum wage job.

But lets be honest about who's consuming the majority of MJ in America. We both now it's 18-25 yr olds. The time in life where most people are just getting it together financially and career wise. Most are still students, who may one day become professionals earning six figures but for now they are working their way through college. I'm not judging them in the slightest. But it would be foolish to pretend that everyone who lights up runs their own practice.

Mushinto
02-29-2012, 12:29
Just like nothing bad has never nor will ever happen as the result of alcohol or tobacco use.

Please leave tobacco out of this, you bunch of drunks and dopers. Tobacco is not a mind-altering drug that is the root cause of 80% of crime.

Saber99
02-29-2012, 12:50
Please leave tobacco out of this, you bunch of drunks and dopers. Tobacco is not a mind-altering drug that is the root cause of 80% of crime.

You wanna talk about the health care costs of that habit?

Tongo
02-29-2012, 13:01
Please leave tobacco out of this, you bunch of drunks and dopers. Tobacco is not a mind-altering drug that is the root cause of 80% of crime.

You ever been a smoker? I have. While there is reletively no crime associated with it, let's outlaw smokes and see how that works out. It's HIGHLY addictive and it is at least mood altering. Try again.

Also, I'd love to see your documentation on the root of 80% of crime...

Look, pot isn't good for you. But the prohibition against it is asinine and hypocritical. A lot of you have heard all the arguments and nothing is going to change your point of view. The fact that NOTHING will change you view is a key indicator that you should rethink the issue without any bias to begin with. Maybe you'll come to the same conclusion, maybe not, but you shouldn't have the knee-jerk reaction that "OMG OMG OMG the Pot is da debil!!".

certifiedfunds
02-29-2012, 13:07
Please leave tobacco out of this, you bunch of drunks and dopers. Tobacco is not a mind-altering drug that is the root cause of 80% of crime.

You have an interesting definition of "root cause".:upeyes:

syntaxerrorsix
02-29-2012, 13:08
Nicotine is most certainly a mind altering drug.

RC-RAMIE
02-29-2012, 13:19
Nicotine is most certainly a mind altering drug.

Not easy to kick 4 year ex smoker here, and I still want one.

certifiedfunds
02-29-2012, 13:25
Nicotine is most certainly a mind altering drug.

Yeah, curious how nicotine is the drug of choice for recovering addicts and alcoholics.

syntaxerrorsix
02-29-2012, 13:38
I quit smoking in 2007. I still enjoy caffeine however. They can have my coffee when they pry it from cold dead hands.

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPJdM1ONuA-bv0ZWOlaGGqUFzbDaBlVTWKHXQieCbHo0lewKnA

ESI Agent
02-29-2012, 13:58
Make it legal and put the cartels/gangs out of business! This will create jobs in the U.S. and reduce crime. :supergrin:

ESI Agent
02-29-2012, 14:04
Over nose on weed! Turning tricks for a dime bag of weed!:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

ESI Agent
02-29-2012, 14:06
Over dose:rofl:

Tongo
02-29-2012, 14:15
Make it legal and put the cartels/gangs out of business! This will create jobs in the U.S. and reduce crime. :supergrin:

The only problem is, legalizing pot won't put the cartels out of business. They've got to much invested in their delivery infrastructure to stop. They'll move on to other drugs or human trafficking. Something will take the place of pot and we'll still be fighting them. Not sure if there IS a solution to the cartel problem...

For the record I support legalization and I don't use it.

Mushinto
03-01-2012, 10:47
To those questioning my use of the tern "root cause," you are correct. I don't know where the hell I got that. I meant to write "contributing cause" as proven time and time again by FBI crime reports.

I never said that tobacco was not addicting, it is just not a factor in crime or has near the "cost to society" that drugs or alcohol has. It is not considered a mind-altering drug in the sense of drugs or alcohol.

I am neither a drunk nor a doper, but if I ever decide to change my lifestyle and find the need to be high, legalities aside, I would easily choose pot over alcohol. After a long career in law enforcement, the carnage caused by pot is nowhere near that of alcohol and hard drugs.

Tongo
03-01-2012, 11:19
To those questioning my use of the tern "root cause," you are correct. I don't know where the hell I got that. I meant to write "contributing cause" as proven time and time again by FBI crime reports.

I never said that tobacco was not addicting, it is just not a factor in crime or has near the "cost to society" that drugs or alcohol has. It is not considered a mind-altering drug in the sense of drugs or alcohol.

I am neither a drunk nor a doper, but if I ever decide to change my lifestyle and find the need to be high, legalities aside, I would easily choose pot over alcohol. After a long career in law enforcement, the carnage caused by pot is nowhere near that of alcohol and hard drugs.

To your last paragraph, I agree 100%. But I find it silly to hear people rail against pot, whilst not calling for the prohibition of alcohol. It's hypocritical.

But, you're still trying to tell me that pot is a "contributing cause" in 80% of crime? I'd think it's more likely that if one is predisposed to committing a crime they think pot really isn't that big of a deal. Correlation isn't causation.

And I'll say it again, I'd be fascinated by what would happen if we banned/outlawed tobacco. My guess is tobacco related crime would far outstrip pot related crime. Tobacco is physically addictive, your body NEEDS that nicotine. Pot...not so much. You may need it psychologically, but you aren't going to go through withdraws if you don't get it.

Mushinto
03-01-2012, 23:56
...

And I'll say it again, I'd be fascinated by what would happen if we banned/outlawed tobacco. My guess is tobacco related crime would far outstrip pot related crime. Tobacco is physically addictive, your body NEEDS that nicotine. Pot...not so much. You may need it psychologically, but you aren't going to go through withdraws if you don't get it.

Same with alcohol.

But if they ever ban cigarettes and coffee, I would have to kill someone.

Mister_Beefy
03-04-2012, 23:39
Please leave tobacco out of this, you bunch of drunks and dopers. Tobacco is not a mind-altering drug that is the root cause of 80% of crime.

Same with alcohol.

But if they ever ban cigarettes and coffee, I would have to kill someone.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I bet you're the type of smoker that throws their butts out the window when driving.

certifiedfunds
03-05-2012, 00:15
Same with alcohol.

But if they ever ban cigarettes and coffee, I would have to kill someone.

And there you go. The war on drugs in one sentence.

NEOH212
03-05-2012, 10:02
It doesn't matter what Colorado does because it is still against federal law.

And hopefully will always be.

If there is anything we don't need in this country it's more drugs and high people that can't think about anything besides getting stoned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can just go pound it where the sun doesn't shine.

I can understand the use of marijuana for legitimate medical purposes but not for anything else.

(Too bad druggies. You not changing the way I feel about it so save your breath.)

certifiedfunds
03-05-2012, 10:08
And hopefully will always be.

If there is anything we don't need in this country it's more drugs and high people that can't think about anything besides getting stoned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can just go pound it where the sun doesn't shine.

I can understand the use of marijuana for legitimate medical purposes but not for anything else.

(Too bad druggies. You not changing the way I feel about it so save your breath.)

Legal or not, I really don't care. Couple of questions for you though:

1. Does it not bother you when the federal government grants itself unconstitutional authority, as they did in the case of marijuana?

2. Why can't the people of Colorado decide for themselves? Why should a person or politician in Ohio have any say in the matter?

syntaxerrorsix
03-05-2012, 10:09
And hopefully will always be.

If there is anything we don't need in this country it's more drugs and high people that can't think about anything besides getting stoned. Anyone that thinks otherwise can just go pound it where the sun doesn't shine.

I can understand the use of marijuana for legitimate medical purposes but not for anything else.

(Too bad druggies. You not changing the way I feel about it so save your breath.)

They really don't care, this prohibition is just as effective as the last one.

Mushinto
03-05-2012, 10:54
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I bet you're the type of smoker that throws their butts out the window when driving.

Never.

janice6
03-05-2012, 10:58
its because it involves taxing "the other guy" and taxing something they don't approve of.

You shouldn't have to pay a duty to get your liberty back.


It's being promoted that I have to do that when it involves "Free Birth Control", that I don't wish to pay for.

janice6
03-05-2012, 10:59
Never.


I used to see college kids doing that while they were driving down the avenue. They should at least shave them first.

janice6
03-05-2012, 11:01
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I bet you're the type of smoker that throws their butts out the window when driving.


I used to see college kids doing that. They should at least shave them first.

janice6
03-05-2012, 11:01
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I bet you're the type of smoker that throws their butts out the window when driving.


I used to see college kids doing that while driving down the avenue. They should at least shave them first.

jbotstein1
03-05-2012, 14:35
To those questioning my use of the tern "root cause," you are correct. I don't know where the hell I got that. I meant to write "contributing cause" as proven time and time again by FBI crime reports.

I never said that tobacco was not addicting, it is just not a factor in crime or has near the "cost to society" that drugs or alcohol has. It is not considered a mind-altering drug in the sense of drugs or alcohol.

I am neither a drunk nor a doper, but if I ever decide to change my lifestyle and find the need to be high, legalities aside, I would easily choose pot over alcohol. After a long career in law enforcement, the carnage caused by pot is nowhere near that of alcohol and hard drugs.

What do you mean by that? If you mean actual monetary cost, I'd say you are way wrong. In fact, I'd say that if there was no tobacco, our healthcare crisis would be dramatically better. Do you realize how many uninsured people smoke, get cancer, COPD, strokes, heart attacks, diabetes, and have millions of dollars in healthcare costs that fall on the rest of society?

Mushinto
03-06-2012, 13:41
What do you mean by that? If you mean actual monetary cost, I'd say you are way wrong. In fact, I'd say that if there was no tobacco, our healthcare crisis would be dramatically better. Do you realize how many uninsured people smoke, get cancer, COPD, strokes, heart attacks, diabetes, and have millions of dollars in healthcare costs that fall on the rest of society?

Where did I get that? Anywhere you actually look instead of relying on assumptions and emoional opinions.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-04-08-fda-tobacco-costs_N.htm