Maybe if all these fruitcakes who want to OC would stop walking around ... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 06:01
Maybe if all these fruitcakes who want to OC would stop walking around with there phones or a video camera and stop instagating a confrontation with the police they would not be so pissed off when they deal with a citizen.All them John Wayne types are doing is really making harder for the average US Citizen to keep there 2A Rights or having Laws passed!!!!!!!!!!I was watching youtube videos of OC crap lastnight and walking up on a officer with a camera doing a traffic stop to show him you have a gun is one way they may get more then a interview on camera.I cant blame many of them for what they do ,only thing i dont agree on is i see them taking a weapon from folks then unloading them and telling them not to reload it.Now if they are detaining folks and taking there weapons from them until they prove tey are not a so called felon,why hasnt anyone sued the PD or City to prove there point seeing they all have cameras and record it?

MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 08:37
I really gotta stop and ask,What is gonna happen when one of these camera/phone/video recording fools walk up on a pissed of veteran of the police force or a young rookie who doesnt understand the OC law and is so startled there is a Lethal Force Action that takes place ??????? Sure wish these groups walking around with OC guns and video equipment would get taken down to a back room and the phone book put atop there head and get it tapped a few times with the old hickory stick,Maybe just maybe then they would grow up and learn how to get a law passed and not Instagate every officer they see into a confrontation.To bad the police officers cant arrest them and sue them for invading there privacy without written consent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RussP
02-28-2012, 09:18
These were posted in a thread not related to open carry, so, they get their own...


Please remember to keep responses civil and within GT Rules and policies.

Thanks

Psychman
02-28-2012, 09:19
Feel better now?

RussP
02-28-2012, 09:20
Feel better now?We'll see...:cool:

Oramac
02-28-2012, 09:28
The ignore function is a wonderful thing.

Travelin' Jack
02-28-2012, 09:30
Mmm, fruit cake.

http://i44.tinypic.com/qq5x5g.jpg

MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 10:03
Oramac you are one of the folks who like to post and gather at these silly functions,Why not enlighten GT to your opinion to why you do this video taping and demostration events like you so talk about on missouricarry????

MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 10:07
RussP i am not sure if you are trying to help or just see how much folks wanna accuse me of being a troll,but in my defense i dont care that you started the thread like you did,As you see i also CC and i do support OC but i dont support the groups doing what they do to try to pass it,All i can say is there are some Officers that got some very thick skin to refrain from just letting loose on some of these Ignorant types that just go looking for trouble each day.

Psychman
02-28-2012, 10:21
We'll see...:cool:

Hopefully, you know that was meant for the OP and not you.

RussP
02-28-2012, 10:23
Hopefully, you know that was meant for the OP and not you.:animlol: Yes, I know.:wavey:

MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 10:26
RussP so whats your view?? Or do you have to ask Sam Spade 1st,bwahahahahahaha

RussP
02-28-2012, 10:31
RussP i am not sure if you are trying to help or just see how much folks wanna accuse me of being a troll,You introduced an unrelated topic into a thread using inflammatory language. Any responses would have derailed the discussion there. Here, you have your own sandbox to play in.Maybe if all these fruitcakes who want to OC
would stop walking around


with there phones or


a video camera and


stop instagating a confrontation with the police



they would not be so pissed off when they deal with a citizen.



All them John Wayne types are doing is
really making harder for the average US Citizen to keep there 2A Rights or


having Laws passed!!!!!!!!!!


I was watching youtube videos of
OC crap lastnight and


walking up on a officer with a camera doing a traffic stop


to show him you have a gun

is one way they may get more then a interview on camera.

I cant blame many of them for what they do ,only thing i dont agree on is
i see them taking a weapon from folks


then unloading them and


telling them not to reload it.


Now if they are
detaining folks and


taking there weapons from them until they prove tey are not a so called felon,

why hasnt anyone sued the PD or City to prove there point seeing they all have cameras and record it?

I really gotta stop and ask,
What is gonna happen when


one of these camera/phone/video recording fools walk up on


a pissed of veteran of the police force or


a young rookie who
doesnt understand the OC law and


is so startled there is a Lethal Force Action that takes place ???????



Sure wish these groups
walking around with OC guns and video equipment


would get taken down to a back room and


the phone book put atop there head and


get it tapped a few times with the old hickory stick,


Maybe just maybe then
they would grow up and


learn how to get a law passed and


not Instagate every officer they see into a confrontation.


To bad the police officers cant arrest them and sue them for invading there privacy without written consent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!As you see
i also CC and

i do support OC but


i dont support the groups doing what they do to try to pass it,


All i can say is there are some Officers that got some very thick skin to refrain from just letting loose on some of these Ignorant types that just go looking for trouble each day.

RussP
02-28-2012, 10:33
RussP so whats your view?? Or do you have to ask Sam Spade 1st,bwahahahahahahaMy view on what, that you are trolling?:cool:

James Dean
02-28-2012, 10:39
I know I would never open carry. if someone else wants to that's their deal. I believe in freedom and it takes people to make bold moves sometimes to make that happen. If you think that OC, or video cameras is the reason to make some cops treat us with guns at traffic stops unprofessional I think your way off base. I've never been stopped while CC. If I were you can bet your life I would have my Phone on record sitting in my cup holder. if anything I think the cameras and audio recordings are helping to educate the police. Someone is always watching. The truth is some people should not carry guns and some people should not be police officers.

RussP
02-28-2012, 10:43
I know I would never open carry. if someone else wants to that's their deal. I believe in freedom and it takes people to make bold moves sometimes to make that happen. If you think that OC, or video cameras is the reason to make some cops treat us with guns at traffic stops unprofessional I think your way off base. I've never been stopped while CC. If I were you can bet your life I would have my Phone on record sitting in my cup holder. if anything I think the cameras and audio recordings are helping to educate the police. Someone is always watching. The truth is some people should not carry guns and some people should not be police officers.Pretty good post, Mr. Dean. :thumbsup:

Rustin
02-28-2012, 11:01
Alright, I agree with you that the shock trooper open carry movement is not really helping anybody. Though you have to understand these people are at least brave enough to stand up for our rights. Open carry shouldn't be shunned. Do gun owners forget our right to bear arms? That doesn't just mean hidden under a coat, or inside the waistband, but any way you want to carry. If you would like to see a positive change regarding open carry I think that picking up litter with a couple of open carriers would help alot more than some verbal standoff with the local police. Education is what we need not confrontation.

Bruce M
02-28-2012, 12:25
Sometimes someone who is thought of as a "fruitcake" in their own time ends up becoming revered as time passes. Some of Reagan's own staff thought he was unhinged enough to be about to start a nuclear war. Rev. King was thought less visionary and more instigator during his time - now we have a holiday. On the other hand, some ideas that were dumb at the time are even more stupid now. I am not convinced that confrontational open carry (I am open for a better way to phrase this in a couple words) will work well in the long term but I will instantly admit that the jury is still out on this as it were.

cloudbuster
02-28-2012, 13:44
Man, those abolitionists, and those women's suffrage fruitcakes, or those civil rights guys. What's with them? No wonder police are pissed off at these people walking around trying to free the slaves or saying crazy stuff like "women should be able to vote," and "repeal Jim Crow laws." I don't blame the cops for being angry when some uppity negro wants to eat in the white section....

And those open carry wackos! Thinking that people can just walk around, with guns right out in plain sight, like it's their right! It's like they think they're just as good as government officials!

ATW525
02-28-2012, 14:04
I don't have a problem with people who OC, but I will agree that some people take things too far in search of a confrontation. Kwikrnu comes to mind, as does the guy who videoed himself OCing an AK on the way to his wife's workplace. However, wishing that the police would take them into a back room and tune them up seems a bit extreme.

scccdoc
02-28-2012, 14:11
Maybe if all these fruitcakes who want to OC would stop walking around with there phones or a video camera and stop instagating a confrontation with the police they would not be so pissed off when they deal with a citizen.All them John Wayne types are doing is really making harder for the average US Citizen to keep there 2A Rights or having Laws passed!!!!!!!!!!I was watching youtube videos of OC crap lastnight and walking up on a officer with a camera doing a traffic stop to show him you have a gun is one way they may get more then a interview on camera.I cant blame many of them for what they do ,only thing i dont agree on is i see them taking a weapon from folks then unloading them and telling them not to reload it.Now if they are detaining folks and taking there weapons from them until they prove tey are not a so called felon,why hasnt anyone sued the PD or City to prove there point seeing they all have cameras and record it?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do NOT want to OC.I DO NOT want the BGs to know I'm carrying.If they are casing a place ,IMO, the first to get a bullet is the OC.I'm more comfortable incognito..........DOC

MoneyMaker
02-28-2012, 14:31
My view on what, that you are trolling?:cool:


Not trolling,Speaking my view and its not wanted by many,But it is what it is,Take it or leave it.

rvrctyrngr
02-28-2012, 14:46
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I do NOT want to OC.I DO NOT want the BGs to know I'm carrying.If they are casing a place ,IMO, the first to get a bullet is the OC.I'm more comfortable incognito..........DOC

That's your choice, of course. Others make different ones. Beauty of a (relatively) free country.

As to the 'first to get a bullet comment', care to share ONE documented incident of this happening?

swinokur
02-29-2012, 07:11
Yep, don't sit in the front of the bus, don't sit at that lunch counter. Be quiet. Move along.

sheesh.

eracer
02-29-2012, 07:23
Thankfully, this country has brave people who choose to exercise their rights. I think that many police officers are beginning to come to grips with the idea that open carry does not necessarily equal danger. We may soon see departments who are actively training their officers on the legality of the same.

swinokur
02-29-2012, 07:46
Counties in Northern Va are doing just that. They are practicing MWAG scenarios because OC is totally legal in VA.You may disagree with a particular religion but you have the right to do that, just as others can practice that religion. Should we abolish the 1st Amendment?

Nah.


Sometimes you gotta rock the boat a bit to move forward.

HoldHard
02-29-2012, 08:12
Since the OP looks like he's searching for opinions (possibly wrong on that but here goes)....

In My Humble Opinion:

OC = First Target

You might as well be wearing a tee shirt with a bullseye on the front and back.

There is a tactical advantage to concealed carry and if you ever have to pull your weapon from it's holster, you'll need every advantage possible to survive the situation.

YMMV

Have a nice day.

HH

xmanhockey7
02-29-2012, 08:43
Read my signature.

RussP
02-29-2012, 10:23
Folks, please stay on topic.

Jud325
02-29-2012, 10:31
Thankfully, this country has brave people who choose to exercise their rights. I think that many police officers are beginning to come to grips with the idea that open carry does not necessarily equal danger. We may soon see departments who are actively training their officers on the legality of the same.

Pa. MPOETC training already has.

http://www.mpoetc.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/mpoetc/7545

Training documents.
http://www.thecrimsonpirate.com/rtkba/archive/MPOTEC_OC_Update_2009.pdf

Lior
02-29-2012, 10:44
Folks, please stay on topic.

My bad - should have found a more suitable thread.

jpa
02-29-2012, 11:32
A lethal force action? Is that like murder death kill where you cease his life functions?

This isn't Demolition Man, you can call a shooting a shooting.

G30Mike
02-29-2012, 11:52
Not this again.......
:rofl:

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 12:25
well hope OC does not pass in Missouri on any of the new bills for new pre emption!

Sharky7
02-29-2012, 12:40
Man, those abolitionists, and those women's suffrage fruitcakes, or those civil rights guys. What's with them? No wonder police are pissed off at these people walking around trying to free the slaves or saying crazy stuff like "women should be able to vote," and "repeal Jim Crow laws." I don't blame the cops for being angry when some uppity negro wants to eat in the white section....

And those open carry wackos! Thinking that people can just walk around, with guns right out in plain sight, like it's their right! It's like they think they're just as good as government officials!


To say that Open Carry is acceptable to be practiced because it is legal is one thing.

Comparing the OCers who walk around with cameras looking for confrontations with the public/police to Rosa Parks or the Civil Rights movement is absolutely ridiculous.

Carry gun laws are on a huge upswing over the last 25 years. Almost every state in the country allows concealed carry in one form or another compared to 50 years ago when those laws were almost non existent.

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 12:57
Comparing the OCers who walk around with cameras looking for confrontations with the public/police to Rosa Parks or the Civil Rights movement is absolutely ridiculous.


Please actually explain how the comparison is ridiculous instead of just asserting that it is. The Rosa Parks event was planned out well beforehand to provoke a confrontation, in case you didn't realize. She, like OCers, was trying to provoke a confrontation to publicly highlight opposition to her exercise of her civil rights.

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 13:02
well hope OC does not pass in Missouri on any of the new bills for new pre emption!

Recognize in yourself the power of the totalitarian instinct. It is an instinct to which people on all parts of the political spectrum are susceptible.

It's not enough for you to simply say that you don't like open carry, and to not do it. You support state enforcement of your preferences on other people. You can't be happy that other people are out there living their lives in ways you don't agree with and you're willing to support the use of state power to keep people living the way you want them to live. Welcome to the totalitarian club. It has a lot of famous members.

scccdoc
02-29-2012, 13:04
That's your choice, of course. Others make different ones. Beauty of a (relatively) free country.

As to the 'first to get a bullet comment', care to share ONE documented incident of this happening?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Not looking for an argument,just giving an opinion.........

xmanhockey7
02-29-2012, 13:09
Open carriers and concealed carriers are both doing the same thing....carrying a gun. Michigan Open Carry is the only group I have seen in Michigan actually trying to get a bill past that would eliminate the concealed pistol free zones (open carry in these places is legal). Open carriers fights for the right to carry concealed just as much as they fight for the right to open carry. Wish more concealed carriers were the same way.

Sharky7
02-29-2012, 13:18
Please actually explain how the comparison is ridiculous instead of just asserting that it is. The Rosa Parks event was planned out well beforehand to provoke a confrontation, in case you didn't realize. She, like OCers, was trying to provoke a confrontation to publicly highlight opposition to her exercise of her civil rights.

Open Carry is legal in the states that these videos take place. The rights are already there.

Don't take me wrong - I am not saying Open Carry is ridiculous.

Gun rights as a whole are on a HUGE upswing. I disagree with people who intentionally go out in public with cameras and attempt to provoke negative confrontations with either the public or police. Confrontations with an aggressive and antagonistic tone while wearing a firearm is not going to go over well with the general public and may hurt gun rights down the road. It's also a common theme in these videos that the OCers say they "know the law", but are clearly violating it. One video specifically comes to mind when an officer is interviewing a group and an OCer with a camera walks up in a quick manner and begins to stand just feet away - even without the camera and gun, the OCer would have been in the wrong.

RussP
02-29-2012, 13:26
i do support OC well hope OC does not pass in MissouriWhich is it? Or is it you support Open Carry, but only as long as it is "not-in-my-backyard"?

Vartarg
02-29-2012, 13:31
I've had a CC permit since LA first allowed them in the mid 90's, and virtually always am armed, and concealed.

Although LA is an OC state, it's not at all common here and I wouldn't think of doing it, except when hunting.

I have a daughter and family who live in NM, am there on a fairly frequent basis. I have to say it is nice to occasionally get out of the car, pump gas, go into a store....not having to worry about covering up.

My point: there's a place for OC, but day in and day out, all the advantages: safety, tactical surprise and discretion are on the side of CC.

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 13:33
Open Carry is legal in the states that these videos take place. The rights are already there.

Don't take me wrong - I am not saying Open Carry is ridiculous.

Gun rights as a whole are on a HUGE upswing. I disagree with people who intentionally go out in public with cameras and attempt to provoke negative confrontations with either the public or police. Confrontations with an aggressive and antagonistic tone while wearing a firearm is not going to go over well with the general public and may hurt gun rights down the road.
Since you say you don't think open carry is ridiculous, then I can't disagree with you. I certainly am not going to give blanket approval to even poorly thought-out attempts at confrontation.

However, not all open carry exercise, even when the person provokes a confrontation, is wrong or poorly thought out. There are still cities and states where open carry is technically legal, but where a person cannot expect to be able to go about his business carrying openly without being harassed. I feel for those people and I don't blame them for being prepared with video phone or camera when it happens.

I'm not familiar with the event you mention:

It's also a common theme in these videos that the OCers say they "know the law", but are clearly violating it. One video specifically comes to mind when an officer is interviewing a group and an OCer with a camera walks up in a quick manner and begins to stand just feet away - even without the camera and gun, the OCer would have been in the wrong.

Can you say more about that? What law is being violated? Open carry is legal in Ohio and I am unaware of any law that would prevent me from approaching a police officer while open carrying and using a camera while he is "interviewing a group," whatever that means. As far as I know, if the police officer is conducting his business in a public place, I have a right to be there and he has no expectation of a right to privacy.

Full disclosure: I've open carried a grand total of once off my property. It was in a situation (mock train robbery) where wearing a six-shooter was unremarkable and it was loaded with blanks at the time. :) But it was a real gun, and could have been loaded with live ammo. Somebody jokingly asked me "Do you have a permit for that gun?" and I told them "I don't need one." I don't know if he realized that was completely true even if the train robbery hadn't been going on.

Mostly, I'm not the "go out and provoke a scene" type and I prefer to carry concealed, but I support the rights of those who do open carry. I think they're doing us all a favor, not a disservice.

Just_plinking
02-29-2012, 13:36
I think acting confrontational in any way when openly carrying a firearm is very serious no matter who you are. I'm all about personal liberty, and when officers draw their weapons without what I consider to be a justifiable reason (everyone has their own opinion on what is justifiable, flame me if you want... i'm not trying to cop bash) I find it extremely upsetting.

BUT two wrongs don't make a right. As much as I support gun rights, guns are not toys any anyone who handles one needs to take the responsibility associated with them seriously.

If I was a cop and someone was acting confrontational while openly carrying, I would be extremely concerned. In fact I'd feel the same way I feel about police pointing guns at citizens who have not exhibited any aggressive behavior. Guns are serious business, don't let your familiarity with them cause you to forget that. Just my $.02

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 13:42
I think acting confrontational in any way when openly carrying a firearm is very serious no matter who you are.

I've read a saying: "You can have a gun, or you can have a temper. You can't have both."

I agree with you that when you're carrying a gun, you have a great responsibility to stay cool and act maturely.

However, there is a big difference between "acting confrontational" and "provoking a confrontation." In some cities, simply walking down the street with a gun on your hip is sufficient to "provoke a confrontation" even if you remain cool and calm.

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 13:46
Folks, please stay on topic.
Folks,Please stay on topic.

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 13:47
Which is it? Or is it you support Open Carry, but only as long as it is "not-in-my-backyard"?
Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.

The Habit
02-29-2012, 13:51
Apologies if this angle has been covered... but, I'm very glad my beloved state of Virginia has legal open carry. I only OC when hunting but it is awfully nice to know that if I lose concealment in public, I'm not going to face the possibility of getting hit with a brandishing charge.

RussP
02-29-2012, 13:56
Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.Ignorance? How so? What do you mean?

RussP
02-29-2012, 13:59
Yes i support it but i dont support it if the ignorance of others keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders.Don't you mean you support open carry, but you do not support the people who "keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders?"

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 14:01
Don't you mean you support open carry, but you do not support the people who "keep trying to instagate issues all the time with video recorders?"
Yep thats it

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 14:04
Ignorance? How so? What do you mean?
this is what i mean
Santa Fe Police Confront Man for Open Carring Legally - YouTube

xmanhockey7
02-29-2012, 14:09
Anyone ever consider the fact that many who OC carrying at the very least a voice recorder on them incase for whatever it ends up being a situation of "he said she said" in court? They would have nothing to post on youtube if the police would figure out someone going about their with a holstered handgun (I'm talking about holstered handguns. I'm not even going to get into LGOC) is not a threat and they shouldn't try to violate the person's rights.

RussP
02-29-2012, 14:14
this is what i meanYou're saying the guy open carrying is ignorant?

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 14:24
Sorry RussP i dont have time for your Questioning Games,I see you think you got game but Sir you really dont.

RussP
02-29-2012, 15:02
Sorry RussP i dont have time for your Questioning Games,I see you think you got game but Sir you really dont.MoneyMaker, DO NOT WASTE TIME READING THIS!!!

For everyone else:Good response, we'll take that to mean he doesn't know the answer to that very simple question.

I asked because of the context in which he posted the video.

I've seen the video used two ways. One is against arrogant (not ignorant) open carriers who throw down their knowledge of the law, their Rights and the limits of the officers right there on the side of the road.

The other is to show how some in LE lie to a person to get them to provide information they are not legally obligated to provide.

I've never heard or read of it being used in his context to show ignorance on the part of that open carrier. The OCer knew his stuff.

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 15:42
RussP so your saying by you not answering my questions but you turn it around to ask me the same question that its not a good topic?

MoneyMaker
02-29-2012, 15:43
Oh ARROGANT could one day get a ARROGANT person in more then a verbal confrontation,Just Sayin

Example was or could be taken as to the youtube video awhile back about the guy who did not show CC card to Officer right away on a pull over and just about got shot,Or atleast got threaten to be shot in the head,Officer lost his job,But take a Officer who works in a very bad district and keep pulling this crap it may happen,I take it you think its ok if this takes place seeing you keep arguing about the videos and rights of the CCW holder.

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 16:14
this is what i mean


Really? If that's ignorance, mark me down on the side of ignorance. The kid was slick, prepared, knew his rights and wasn't about to back down.

Guys like that are fantastic -- people who are activists out on the front lines, drawing lines in the sand to defend the boundaries of our rights are the ones allowing us quieter types to live in freedom. I don't really want to go out of my way to be that guy -- at my age, I have too many responsibilities to want to subject my family to that. Maybe when I'm retired and can afford to spend a few nights in jail on a matter of principle. In the meantime, I admire the people who are willing to walk the walk.

He wasn't rude to the officers at any time. He wasn't calling them "pigs" or treating them as if they were evil or illegitimate. He was polite and non-aggressive. He just stood his ground within his rights. Sure, he was ready for a confrontation -- we're usually fans of preparedness around here!. The first officer had ample opportunity to just let it go. The officer was the one who insisted on the confrontation. And the fact that, at the end, the guy was able to just walk away from the cops while they stood there unable to legally stop him means that he did everything right.

cloudbuster
02-29-2012, 16:23
Oh ARROGANT could one day get a ARROGANT person in more then a verbal confrontation,Just Sayin

Example was or could be taken as to the youtube video awhile back about the guy who did not show CC card to Officer right away on a pull over and just about got shot,Or atleast got threaten to be shot in the head,Officer lost his job,But take a Officer who works in a very bad district and keep pulling this crap it may happen,I take it you think its ok if this takes place seeing you keep arguing about the videos and rights of the CCW holder.

I think if an officer commits what is ruled an unjustified shooting, it's the officer's fault, not the victim's, regardless of the presence of video cameras, open carry, or clown noses. If the shooting is ruled justified, then the person who got shot was doing a heck of a lot more than standing there saying he knows his rights.

ATW525
02-29-2012, 16:28
Common sense would seem to indicate that approaching a traffic stop in progress is a bad idea. To the guy's credit, though, he backed off when told and didn't try to argue the point.

RussP
02-29-2012, 17:42
RussP so your saying by you not answering my questions but you turn it around to ask me the same question that its not a good topic?What questions in this thread did you ask that I have not answered?

RussP
02-29-2012, 18:59
Oh ARROGANT could one day get a ARROGANT person in more then a verbal confrontation,Just SayinYes, it could.Example was or could be taken as to the youtube video awhile back about the guy who did not show CC card to Officer right away on a pull over and just about got shot,Or atleast got threaten to be shot in the head,Officer lost his job,But take a Officer who works in a very bad district and keep pulling this crap it may happen,I take it you think its ok if this takes place seeing you keep arguing about the videos and rights of the CCW holder.Is this what you meant to say?Example was, or could be, the youtube video awhile back about the guy who did not immediately notify the Officer on a pull over and just about got shot, or at least got threaten to be shot in the head. The Officer lost his job.

But take a Officer who works in a very bad district and keep pulling this crap it may happen.

I take it you think its ok if this takes place seeing you keep arguing about the videos and rights of the CCW holder.I'll respond to that.

The incident you refer to is when Daniel Harless, a Canton PD officer, verbally threatened William E. Bartlett. It did occur in a bad district known for drugs and prostitution.

No, I do not think behavior such as Harless exhibited is okay.

I'm not arguing about your video example. I stated how I have seen the video used in other threads here and on several other forums. I disagree that it shows ignorance on the part of the open carrier. As I said earlier, arrogance yes, ignorance no.

I am not arguing the Rights of the Concealed Handgun Permit holder in that video, either. What gave you that idea? I do not agree with his actions, but I have never disputed his right to carry.

G30Mike
02-29-2012, 19:02
Great thread....
I carry a recorder with me when I OC, but not for the purpose of uploading it to youtube to show off on the interwebz. I do it for the same reason the police have dashcam recorders....for my protection. That way if there is an incident and I have to go to court, there's no he said he said crap. Its all right there on digital audio for the judge to hear.

My girlfriend also carries a recorder, and good thing she does. She was involved in a car accident and recorded the whole thing. The guy who hit her had a different story for my insurance company. When my agent got the recording, the guy was denied his claim based on the recording.

Its always a good idea to be prepared to defend yourself with any means you can....

MinnesnowtaWild
03-01-2012, 00:07
I have to say...the people who make those videos are extremely annoying. I feel bad for the cops who have to deal with the "constitutional activists" that act like they know more than the officers.

Don't be going out, looking for confrontations. That's not the reason why we carry guns.

G30Mike
03-01-2012, 00:30
I have to say...the people who make those videos are extremely annoying. I feel bad for the cops who have to deal with the "constitutional activists" that act like they know more than the officers.

Don't be going out, looking for confrontations. That's not the reason why we carry guns.

Funny thing is most of the "Constitutional Activists" you describe ARE more knowledgeable about the law than most of the police officers. :D
But I do agree that uploading youtube vids and OCing for the reason to just be thought if as "cool" to the others on the internet who do it for the same reason is kinda silly.

Sharky7
03-01-2012, 01:07
Can you say more about that? What law is being violated? Open carry is legal in Ohio and I am unaware of any law that would prevent me from approaching a police officer while open carrying and using a camera while he is "interviewing a group," whatever that means. As far as I know, if the police officer is conducting his business in a public place, I have a right to be there and he has no expectation of a right to privacy.



What I meant was, even without the camera and gun, the person may still be violating law.

If a police officer is in an investigatory stop, bystanders do not have the right to stand at a distance that is unsafe for the officers or the person being stopped. Different laws in different states, but in my state it would be Obstructing a peace officer.

If I as a police officer am doing a stop on someone I suspect of a crime and could possibly be dangerous - the last thing I need is a random person running up and standing a few feet away from me and refusing to move away. Someone whom I don't know their intention or affiliation. Taking my attention away from the bad guy for even a few seconds could mean my name being the next to be added on ODMP. Not only is it illegal to run up and interfere with a police stop, but it is not safe for ANYONE involved.

NEOH212
03-01-2012, 04:03
I don't open carry (most of the time anyhow) because fear of negative encounters with law enforcement and many other negatives that I can think of.

However, open carry (where legal) is your right and one shouldn't have to be fearful of exercising that right. I will have to think about where I stand on what these, "Open carriers with cameras." are doing.

In many ways, I like what they stand for and what they are doing. At the same time, I have issues with some of what they do and how they do it.

I would like to see all fifty states become open carry friendly including all localities with in the states as well.

Bruce M
03-01-2012, 07:32
I remain convinced that open carry is something that should or should not be done taking into account local customs and expectations.

RussP
03-01-2012, 08:18
I remain convinced that open carry is something that should or should not be done taking into account local customs and expectations.Open carry responsibly, when and where appropriate.

:cool:

I0WA
03-01-2012, 09:55
Maybe if all these fruitcakes who want to OC would stop walking around with there phones or a video camera and stop instagating a confrontation with the police they would not be so pissed off when they deal with a citizen.All them John Wayne types are doing is really making harder for the average US Citizen to keep there 2A Rights or having Laws passed!!!!!!!!!!I was watching youtube videos of OC crap lastnight and walking up on a officer with a camera doing a traffic stop to show him you have a gun is one way they may get more then a interview on camera.I cant blame many of them for what they do ,only thing i dont agree on is i see them taking a weapon from folks then unloading them and telling them not to reload it.Now if they are detaining folks and taking there weapons from them until they prove tey are not a so called felon,why hasnt anyone sued the PD or City to prove there point seeing they all have cameras and record it?

Oh brother. Maybe China would be a better country for you to live in? Sorry, but I like my country free.

jkm
03-02-2012, 21:37
There are right ways and wrong ways to do things. The guy in the video put on a gun, and then went looking for a confrontation.
And, he's a liar. He didn't give a flying yahoo about the traffic violators rights. He only cared about setting up a LEO.
That video will provide lots of ammunition for the anti-gun crowd.
I've seen his kind before. He's a punk.

RussP
03-02-2012, 22:22
There are right ways and wrong ways to do things. The guy in the video put on a gun, and then went looking for a confrontation.
And, he's a liar. He didn't give a flying yahoo about the traffic violators rights. He only cared about setting up a LEO.
That video will provide lots of ammunition for the anti-gun crowd.
I've seen his kind before. He's a punk.The traffic violator is his girlfriend. She called him about the traffic stop.

Yes, I certainly believe he went looking for the confrontation.

I0WA
03-02-2012, 22:31
this is what i mean
Santa Fe Police Confront Man for Open Carring Legally - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4&feature=related)

There are two sides of this coin. Did the guy do anything wrong? Technically, no. Not at all.

Did he break any laws? Nope. Did he go looking for confrontation? Probably.

..But the cops acted wrong too. The police were 100% wrong, and I believe it is his point to combat the police and the police state we're rapidly progressing into.

Notice how many times they ask for ID, and how many times they use the "what do you have to hide line". Disgusting.

Just_plinking
03-02-2012, 23:36
There are two sides of this coin. Did the guy do anything wrong? Technically, no. Not at all.

Did he break any laws? Nope. Did he go looking for confrontation? Probably.

..But the cops acted wrong too. The police were 100% wrong, and I believe it is his point to combat the police and the police state we're rapidly progressing into.

Notice how many times they ask for ID, and how many times they use the "what do you have to hide line". Disgusting.

Their attitude is about as good as you're going to get.

To be fair, that supervisor had to try to run the guy's license, just for cya purposes. Did he knowingly lie in doing so, almost certainly. Would he have been remiss for not lying, probably. Should the law be different so that police can't lie to try to coerce people or gain information, I think so. You can fault the cop for working in an imperfect justice system if you like, but that's as far as it goes from my perspective (in this example).

I0WA
03-03-2012, 00:02
Their attitude is about as good as you're going to get.

To be fair, that supervisor had to try to run the guy's license, just for cya purposes. Did he knowingly lie in doing so, almost certainly. Would he have been remiss for not lying, probably. Should the law be different so that police can't lie to try to coerce people or gain information, I think so. You can fault the cop for working in an imperfect justice system if you like, but that's as far as it goes from my perspective (in this example).

No, but I can fault them for an unlawful detention.

Mister_Beefy
03-03-2012, 02:03
Open carry responsibly, when and where appropriate.

:cool:


perfectly legal, perfectly appropriate.

Sharky7
03-03-2012, 02:12
No, but I can fault them for an unlawful detention.

This could have been a lawful detention if they went about it a different way. If I really have wanted to demand an ID from this camera guy - he was violating vehicle code when he walked into the middle of the street.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/28/00796.htm&Title=28&DocType=ARS

Sharky7
03-03-2012, 02:14
perfectly legal, perfectly appropriate.

So should all laws be enforced the same way as well? Illegal, so there should be enforcement?

Should the camera guy got a citation for the above offense?

MoneyMaker
03-04-2012, 05:45
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?100400-The-largest-2a-threat-in-MO

Linconmores i salute you sir!!!!!!!!!!Bout time someone else took a stance to LMTD,As the fellow sure has a complex.Its either do it my way or hit the hiway,He does not like anyone that will not bow down to his thoughts even if they are right or wrong.

cloudbuster
03-04-2012, 06:25
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?100400-The-largest-2a-threat-in-MO

Linconmores i salute you sir!!!!!!!!!!Bout time someone else took a stance to LMTD,As the fellow sure has a complex.Its either do it my way or hit the hiway,He does not like anyone that will not bow down to his thoughts even if they are right or wrong.

Kinda funny coming from a guy who wants the entire population of Missouri to do it his way or hit the highway:

well hope OC does not pass in Missouri on any of the new bills for new pre emption!

SouthernBoyVA
03-04-2012, 08:20
RussP i am not sure if you are trying to help or just see how much folks wanna accuse me of being a troll,but in my defense i dont care that you started the thread like you did,As you see i also CC and i do support OC but i dont support the groups doing what they do to try to pass it,All i can say is there are some Officers that got some very thick skin to refrain from just letting loose on some of these Ignorant types that just go looking for trouble each day.

You've got to be kidding. Any LEO's who do something like that not only open their department up to lawsuits and such, but themselves as well... and that's how it should be. It is We who should be controlling the police, not the other way around.

Mind you, I am not a fan of people deliberate trying to bait police just to get a rise out of them so they can record it and put it on youtube. But there are police out there who jump at the chance to verbally assault and perhaps body slam a citizen for openly carrying a firearm, or even concealing it for that matter. Those are the miscreants whom I love to see recorded, audio or video, to put their departments on the hot spot and to get them fired. I abhor my employees (read that as public servants) getting the God syndrome and riding herd over their bosses.