if a policeman asks you if your a CCW holder? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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huggytree
03-04-2012, 07:49
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

firefighter4215
03-04-2012, 07:55
Well, they sometimes ask that question regardless. I don't see any problem with a LEO asking if you're armed, and I have no problem responding honestly. They're trying to do their job and go home at the end of the shift. Most of them will probably be friendly enough, though my only traffic stop since I got my ccdw license was not good. It was very surprising, considering I was in KY when it happened.

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Angry Fist
03-04-2012, 07:58
You gotta remember, CCW is still fairly new to Wisconsin, and a lot of cops may not have much experience in dealing with carriers. Just be straight with them.

Ryobi
03-04-2012, 08:31
It depends on whether you confuse being a permit holder with being a police officer. It depends on how you want your day to go. Why would someone lie to the police like a criminal if they weren't one?

Lowjiber
03-04-2012, 08:38
Let me see if I understand.

If asked the question(s) by a cop, you would refuse to answer because you don't feel that he/she has the right to ask you? That's sure to make for an interesting traffic stop.

In Nevada, your CCW is tied to your license plate (if the car is registered in your name). So, in the vast majority of cases the cop already knows, and the question is often not asked.

That said, I've been stopped twice in the past twenty years, and in each case I've informed the cop immediately that I was armed. In both cases, the "stop" went well, and I was soon on my way.

I think if you refuse to answer the question(s) stated above, you're going to have a long day, and I certainly don't blame the cop.

Just my $0.02.

Unistat
03-04-2012, 08:44
Let me see if I understand.

If asked the question(s) by a cop, you would refuse to answer because you don't feel that he/she has the right to ask you? That's sure to make for an interesting traffic stop.

In Nevada, your CCW is tied to your license plate (if the car is registered in your name). So, in the vast majority of cases the cop already knows, and the question is often not asked.

That said, I've been stopped twice in the past twenty years, and in each case I've informed the cop immediately that I was armed. In both cases, the "stop" went well, and I was soon on my way.

I think if you refuse to answer the question(s) stated above, you're going to have a long day, and I certainly don't blame the cop.

Just my $0.02.

+1

Really, I have no need to make their job more difficult for no good reason. Plus, the police DO have the authority to ascertain if someone is armed during a traffic stop.

Rumbler_G20
03-04-2012, 08:48
Let me see if I understand.

If asked the question(s) by a cop, you would refuse to answer because you don't feel that he/she has the right to ask you? That's sure to make for an interesting traffic stop.

In Nevada, your CCW is tied to your license plate (if the car is registered in your name). So, in the vast majority of cases the cop already knows, and the question is often not asked.

That said, I've been stopped twice in the past twenty years, and in each case I've informed the cop immediately that I was armed. In both cases, the "stop" went well, and I was soon on my way.

I think if you refuse to answer the question(s) stated above, you're going to have a long day, and I certainly don't blame the cop.

Just my $0.02.


This! ^^ :scared:

Glockdude1
03-04-2012, 08:53
In Texas, if a police officer asks you, you answer honestly. Yes or no. Not hard at all.

:cool:

Bruce M
03-04-2012, 09:02
..how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

....

This sounds like a question that would be much better answered by your attorney so he could explain whether you have to answer that sort of question and what if anything might happen if you do not or if you lie.

It depends on whether you confuse being a permit holder with being a police officer. It depends on how you want your day to go. Why would someone lie to the police like a criminal if they weren't one? I am led to believe that in some places a lie to the police makes one a criminal.

BK63
03-04-2012, 09:13
If they ask me anything I answer. I have nothing to hide and I'm not breaking any laws.

Horseface
03-04-2012, 09:19
If they ask me anything I answer. I have nothing to hide and I'm not breaking any laws.

+1 on this.

HexHead
03-04-2012, 09:25
Why some people just have to go out of their way to make their lives difficult is beyond me.

pipedreams
03-04-2012, 09:44
I am led to believe that in some places a lie to the police makes one a criminal.

Yes, didn't you know lying to the police is a crime but if they lie to you it is not a crime.

Best answer if they ask if you have any weapons or anything else in the car they should know about is a simple yes or no.

RussP
03-04-2012, 09:51
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.WI law says you do not have to initiate informing a law enforcement officer of your CCL.

What does Wisconsin law say about failure to acknowledge possession of a firearm when asked by law enforcement?

Stefan
03-04-2012, 09:58
Before owning a gun, which was back in October, I would have had no idea what CCW meant. I probably would have just stated at him dumbfounded and then asked what that meant. Now I would just say no.

Stefan

madcitycop
03-04-2012, 10:10
Go ahead and say you dont have to answer that. Enjoy spending the entire traffic stop standing outside of your car and told not to move. Hostility is met by the same. Oh and a police officer can ask anything they please. Remember the first amendment that you all complain the police are trying to take away? they still have it as well. enjoy your tickets. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Youll be the first one to complain too when a cop asks that question you chose not to answer and he sees your firearm and draws his on you. Again you play stupid gamea you win stupid prizes.

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Mr Spock
03-04-2012, 10:18
I would assume that most places have criminalized lying to the police in one way or another. At a minimum it will really piss them off if they end up finding out you lied. If asked a direct question, answer it honestly, respectfully, and calmly. If they do anything wrong after that, there is always the dash cam and the legal system.

As for volunteering the info, that would depend on where you live and the local LE attitude toward CCW. In east-central FL I have been stopped twice (once county, once local) since I started carrying 5 years ago. I informed both. One just said, "Okay" and I got a warning for doing some really obnoxious stuff (well, when he asked if I knew why he stopped me, I said, "Because I was driving like an ass, sir" and proceeded to tell him what I did wrong exactly. He smirked when I said that, so honesty may have been the reason for the warning). The local guy asked me what I was carrying and we talked for a minute about it. Some places, the cops LIKE non-LE who are legally armed.

RussP
03-04-2012, 10:22
Before owning a gun, which was back in October, I would have had no idea what CCW meant. I probably would have just stated at him dumbfounded and then asked what that meant. Now I would just say no.

StefanWhat if he asks if you have a LTCF?

Warp
03-04-2012, 10:29
Go ahead and say you dont have to answer that. Enjoy spending the entire traffic stop standing outside of your car and told not to move. Hostility is met by the same. Oh and a police officer can ask anything they please. Remember the first amendment that you all complain the police are trying to take away? they still have it as well. enjoy your tickets. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Youll be the first one to complain too when a cop asks that question you chose not to answer and he sees your firearm and draws his on you. Again you play stupid gamea you win stupid prizes.

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I am surprised you are taking the 1st Amendment route here.

If the 1A is what allows an officer to ask you anything would the 1A also allow you to answer with anything you want?

coqui33
03-04-2012, 10:31
Two ambiguities and one pitfall make threads about answering LEO questions pointless and frustrating.

The first ambiguity is whether the topic is about what is legal or what is wise.

Is it legal? Yes. In Florida, with a couple of minor exceptions, it is perfectly legal to refuse to answer questions without your lawyer being present. You cannot and will not be prosecuted for refusing to answer questions without a lawyer.

Is it wise? You must decide this for yourself. If you refuse to answer a LEO's question, in most Florida jurisdictions, you will be handcuffed and detained. In many, you will be charged with obstruction. In some, you will first be beaten. And in a handful of well-documented worst-case scenarios, the non-cooperating citizen was simply murdered by the side of the road. Your call.

The second ambiguity is whether you should lie or simply refuse to answer. Lying is illegal and you can be prosecuted. Refusal to answer is legal, but might have unpleasant consequences.

The pitfall is that cop bashers deliberately distort the issue to suggest that outright deception is the wisest choice. And cop apologists deliberately distort it to suggest that non-cooperation will always get you locked up.

rball
03-04-2012, 11:26
A licensee or out-of-state licensee who is carrying a concealed weapon must display the license and photo identification to a law enforcement officer upon the request of the law enforcement officer while the law enforcement officer is acting in an official capacity and with lawful authority. Wis. Stat. ß 175.60(2g)(c)

Lying to a LEO is, at a minimum, a Class A misdemeanor. Wis. Stat. ß 946.41(1)

Class A misdemeanor fines can go up to $10,000 and/or one year in the county jail.

Failure to display the license to a law enforcement officer is a $25 forfeiture. Wis. Stat. ß 175.60(17)(a)

In Wisconsin, if you get pulled over for speeding - are you required to inform the LEO you are CCW'ing? Not unless the LEO asks you.

Should you voluntarily inform the LEO you are CCW'ing? If you are on the fence as to whether you should or should not - use the search feature. You will get plenty of reasons as to why you should or why you should not voluntarily inform.

DesertEagle
03-04-2012, 12:19
I don't believe GA has any duty to inform, nor on the once I've been stopped since having my permit was I asked (didn't have it anyway).

However, my perspective, if I was, is this - I would rather politely inform the officer that for both our benefits I would like him to know that I have a permit and am carrying and a verbal description of where before I remove my hands from the steering wheel.

I know they have a stressful job at times, and I'd rather be honest about it and forward, and I feel it puts them at ease (hopefully). I'd rather do it that way then reach for my wallet and have him see it and wonder what I'm really reaching for.

Bill Lumberg
03-04-2012, 12:40
Winning move. I don't believe GA has any duty to inform, nor on the once I've been stopped since having my permit was I asked (didn't have it anyway).

However, my perspective, if I was, is this - I would rather politely inform the officer that for both our benefits I would like him to know that I have a permit and am carrying and a verbal description of where before I remove my hands from the steering wheel.

I know they have a stressful job at times, and I'd rather be honest about it and forward, and I feel it puts them at ease (hopefully). I'd rather do it that way then reach for my wallet and have him see it and wonder what I'm really reaching for.

happyguy
03-04-2012, 13:02
If a policeman asks me if I'm armed I will answer truthfully.

The only exception to that would be in a Katrina style confiscation scenario.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Misty02
03-04-2012, 13:06
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

Anyone can pretty much ask anyone else anything, whether one answers or not is the question. In some states you are required to inform, in others you are required to answer truthfully when asked and in others you just donít have to tell at all (even if asked). I happen to be in a state where we are not required to inform, I keep going back and forth on whether I would volunteer the information if ever stopped. Nonetheless, if asked, I would answer truthfully to that question.

Personally, Iím not much for self-induced complications and believe not answering the question would yield just that. It is not worth my time or theirs. Is it possible that I may encounter a LEO that is not pro-citizen carry? Sure, it is. If that is the case Iíll play the cards Iím dealt at the time with full knowledge that Iím carrying legally. If necessary, Iíll have the officer call a supervisor for further enlightenment; somehow I believe that wonít be necessary though.

.

michael e
03-04-2012, 13:10
When cops ask for ID here we are suppost to give both, only two times I have had contact since getting mine it was less than 5 mins after stop. One time I had gun in car since cant carry at work, other time had them on me. Was never dis armed or even had my ID ran after getting my CHL.

emtp2rn
03-04-2012, 13:29
In Michigan, it is tied to my license plate, and I have a duty to inform.

I may be in the minority on this forum, but I believe in officer safety. That doesn't mean I support an officer being an a**hat, but they risk their lives far more often then you or I do.

If you are not required, it is still a good idea. If you get pulled out of the car for any reason and the officer is surprised when he finds it, you will eat pavement or worse, and I don't blame the officer.

Remember if you are pulled over, it is for probable cause that you violated some law in front of the officer. If you broke one law, what is to make him think you wont violate another.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 13:55
Since when it is crime to lie to police at a traffic stop? Can anyone post a statue where the crime is the lie and there is a penalty for lying? If you are not under oath, how can you determine what is a lie? Surely if you sign something or make an official statement, you might be guilty but who decides if you "lied" at a traffic stop? If you verbalize a false report to 911 or you fabricate a crime that didn't happen or you give incorrect information about something you are required to provide (like your identication), how can "lying" be a crime? Isn't the crime failure to ID or filing a false report, etc?

"Do you have a Glock?"
"No"
Turns out it was a Kahr but the police officer says you lied when he found your legal pistol so we won't charge you with a weapons charged but you're under arrest for lying, tell it to the judge? Hardly.

"Were you speeding?"
"Nope."
"I have you on video so you're lying. You get a ticket for speeding and you're under arrest for lying."
Don't think so.

Somebody show me the statute where it is a crime to utter an untruth and you can be arrested for it....because I'm not aware of it. I don't know all the laws and I don't know the law in every state but I'm willing to learn.

If the officer is investigating a stolen car and he's asking questions about your car and you lie about your car and your car is not actually the stolen car, I just can't see how you can skip the stolen car charges but get charged for hindering the investigation of a stolen car....but I can't always see things clearly anyway.

That being said, in my state, the officer is allowed to ask about your permit and afaik, the law says the permit holder must acknowledge. When asked if I have a permit, in KS I answer Yes, because I have one. The laws says I have to do it and I will. If the law didn't require it of me, I may answer Yes or I may not answer at all. But I wouldn't say No. I understand a lot of folks pretend that saying nothing at all is lying so that's why I'm going here. I believe you have a right not to say anything when you are being detained and within the confines of the law, that's my plan. I have been known to do otherwise (I have had friendly conversations with officers) but I'll have to judge as it goes. Bottom line is you can say nothing and I am absolutely sure there is no law that says failure to verbally respond at a traffic stop is a crime.

In my book, none of this counts if an emegency in progress. If a life is at stake or there is a emergency situation, a good citizen will respond immediately and help in whatever way they can. Officer requests and orders during an emergency situation are always valid and the citizen may be able to expect some sort of relief in the event the situation turns negative for him, I dunno.

If the officer doesn't ask, it's up to you to tell him about your permit and your weapons according to your state law, check your state law to see if you are compelled, ymmv.

If the officer asks, if you don't have a good reason for not answering or you are unable to handle the situation if you don't answer, then you may want to go ahead and answer. But don't believe you are required to answer if there is no law forcing it or a "lying" law in your state. I've never heard of a "lying" law but then again, I don't lie so it has no use to me. In my book, lying is providing an answer with the intent to deceive or providing an answer that you know isn't true.

My 2 cents. Flame away.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 13:58
Remember if you are pulled over, it is for probable cause that you violated some law in front of the officer. If you broke one law, what is to make him think you wont violate another.

In the real world, lots of people get pulled over even when they didn't break the law and even when nothing happens in front of the officer. But you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

Sounds like you and the police are about to partner together to promote officer safety and goodwill and mutual trust, too bad it's not like that for the other half of America, they aren't so lucky as you.

;)

xmanhockey7
03-04-2012, 14:08
In MI we are required by law to inform. Don't worry criminals are not required to inform just those who have CPLs. A problem I see with it is this, it conflicts with the 5th amendment. Now some of you may be thinking "well if you're legally carrying your good". Which may be true but what if you have your CPL and you're in you're in your car and you're not legally carrying and you don't even know it.

Now some of you are saying how can this happen? In the state of Michigan the state constitution grants rights to UofM, Wayne State, and MSU. They have the power to create ordinances that carry the weight of law up to a misdemeanor. If you're downtown Ann Arbor it's very possible to drive or walk onto campus property where it's a misdemeanor to have a firearm. So if you are stopped by a cop either on foot or in your car while on the property you are required by law to inform them that you are carrying and you can subsequently be charged with a crime.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 14:14
Now some of you are saying how can this happen? In the state of Michigan the state constitution grants rights to UofM, Wayne State, and MSU. They have the power to create ordinances that carry the weight of law up to a misdemeanor. If you're downtown Ann Arbor it's very possible to drive or walk onto campus property where it's a misdemeanor to have a firearm. So if you are stopped by a cop either on foot or in your car while on the property you are required by law to inform them that you are carrying and you can subsequently be charged with a crime.

You'll need to be the test case to get that one cleared up. :)

xmanhockey7
03-04-2012, 14:25
You'll need to be the test case to get that one cleared up. :)

Not really UofM has that "ordinance" and since they are not preempted by state law you're pretty much screwed.

pipedreams
03-04-2012, 14:32
I may be in the minority on this forum, but I believe in officer safety. That doesn't mean I support an officer being an a**hat, but they risk their lives far more often then you or I do.


I don't think you are in the minority when you make that statement and I fully agree with you. But we need to keep the following in mind. Just like a school teacher, crossing guard, or a dog catcher the policeman applied for the job. Going into that career or any other job one should understand what is involved. If you want to be a dog catcher there is a good chance your going to get bit. There are many jobs with dangers that can get you killed or maimed. Think about the person that climbs cell towers every day, or the guy working on high voltage power lines.

madcitycop
03-04-2012, 14:40
I am surprised you are taking the 1st Amendment route here.

If the 1A is what allows an officer to ask you anything would the 1A also allow you to answer with anything you want?

Not ALL speech is protected...

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ScottieG59
03-04-2012, 14:43
I think that notifying the police officer that I have a permit and have a concealed weapon on me allows the threat assessment to become more clearly defined to the police officer. An unknown becomes a known.

If my being armed is something the police officer observes before I inform him of my permit and that I am armed, the undefined situation is now one of potential danger to the police officer.

Personally, I like to keep relationships cordial if I can. Withholding information that can allow an encounter to look potentially hostile in a tactic with some potential risk.

I know many out there have problems with authority. Maybe this starts when they are young and hate being told what to do by their parents. Well, maybe this attitude tracks to adulthood and makes these people a little less than an ideal citizen.

Police have a job to do and it involves walking into situations with an unknown amount of personal risk. Why make things tougher for them by keeping the situation undefined?

madcitycop
03-04-2012, 14:43
If a policeman asks me if I'm armed I will answer truthfully.

The only exception to that would be in a Katrina style confiscation scenario.

Regards,
Happyguy :)

"gun? whats a gun? hell of a storm huh officer?" :)

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HarleyGuy
03-04-2012, 14:46
In my early years when I was frequently stopped by the police(:dunno:), I had some encounters that went well (though I got ticket) but only one that went bad (an *(*hole motorcycle cop) but (thankfully) I have never been stopped by a police officer since I got my CPL.
Michigan CPL holders are required to immediatley notify the officer that they have a CPL and that they are armed and failure to do so can lead to a fine and or suspension of your CPL.
In one incident, a CPL holder was charged because he didn't inform the office within 30 seconds after the officer had started the conversation.

When Michigan first started issuing CPL's, we had some cops (who may or may not have fully understood the "duty to inform" part of the law) who were issuing tickets to CPL holders who did NOT inform them that they had a CPL but they were NOT carrying a firearm.
I have always advocated, that regardless if you are carrying a firearm or not, or if you're in another state where the do not have a requirement that you have to notify, tell the officer immediately anyway that you have a CPL and that you ARE or ARE NOT currently armed.
It cannot hurt to notify them but if they find out that you are armed and did not notify them it may not go very well for you.
Perhaps, since I know a lot of cops and lawyers, I'm a bit leary of becoming involved in the "system", but once you're charged, you'll need a good lawyer and they don't come cheap!

madcitycop
03-04-2012, 14:47
I don't think you are in the minority when you make that statement and I fully agree with you. But we need to keep the following in mind. Just like a school teacher, crossing guard, or a dog catcher the policeman applied for the job. Going into that career or any other job one should understand what is involved. If you want to be a dog catcher there is a good chance your going to get bit. There are many jobs with dangers that can get you killed or maimed. Think about the person that climbs cell towers every day, or the guy working on high voltage power lines.

The cell tower will never intentionally pull a firearm and shoot you or knock you off intentionally. High voltage power lines dont conceal the amount of electricity and then shock you when you touch it. Bigg difference between me falling off a tower or touching a line and someone pulling a firearm on me and shooting me. I hate this argument as they are clearly apples and oranges. Are those jobs dangerous, of course. Dangerous in the same way? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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madcitycop
03-04-2012, 14:55
Since when it is crime to lie to police at a traffic stop? Can anyone post a statue where the crime is the lie and there is a penalty for lying? If you are not under oath, how can you determine what is a lie? Surely if you sign something or make an official statement, you might be guilty but who decides if you "lied" at a traffic stop? If you verbalize a false report to 911 or you fabricate a crime that didn't happen or you give incorrect information about something you are required to provide (like your identication), how can "lying" be a crime? Isn't the crime failure to ID or filing a false report, etc?

"Do you have a Glock?"
"No"
Turns out it was a Kahr but the police officer says you lied when he found your legal pistol so we won't charge you with a weapons charged but you're under arrest for lying, tell it to the judge? Hardly.

"Were you speeding?"
"Nope."
"I have you on video so you're lying. You get a ticket for speeding and you're under arrest for lying."
Don't think so.

Somebody show me the statute where it is a crime to utter an untruth and you can be arrested for it....because I'm not aware of it. I don't know all the laws and I don't know the law in every state but I'm willing to learn.

If the officer is investigating a stolen car and he's asking questions about your car and you lie about your car and your car is not actually the stolen car, I just can't see how you can skip the stolen car charges but get charged for hindering the investigation of a stolen car....but I can't always see things clearly anyway.

That being said, in my state, the officer is allowed to ask about your permit and afaik, the law says the permit holder must acknowledge. When asked if I have a permit, in KS I answer Yes, because I have one. The laws says I have to do it and I will. If the law didn't require it of me, I may answer Yes or I may not answer at all. But I wouldn't say No. I understand a lot of folks pretend that saying nothing at all is lying so that's why I'm going here. I believe you have a right not to say anything when you are being detained and within the confines of the law, that's my plan. I have been known to do otherwise (I have had friendly conversations with officers) but I'll have to judge as it goes. Bottom line is you can say nothing and I am absolutely sure there is no law that says failure to verbally respond at a traffic stop is a crime.

In my book, none of this counts if an emegency in progress. If a life is at stake or there is a emergency situation, a good citizen will respond immediately and help in whatever way they can. Officer requests and orders during an emergency situation are always valid and the citizen may be able to expect some sort of relief in the event the situation turns negative for him, I dunno.

If the officer doesn't ask, it's up to you to tell him about your permit and your weapons according to your state law, check your state law to see if you are compelled, ymmv.

If the officer asks, if you don't have a good reason for not answering or you are unable to handle the situation if you don't answer, then you may want to go ahead and answer. But don't believe you are required to answer if there is no law forcing it or a "lying" law in your state. I've never heard of a "lying" law but then again, I don't lie so it has no use to me. In my book, lying is providing an answer with the intent to deceive or providing an answer that you know isn't true.

My 2 cents. Flame away.

Id love to Wi statute 946.41 knowingly giving false information to a police officer is a misdemenaor offense. Semantics is for court. I ask you if you have a gun while we're on a stop and you say no and i find a gun youre going to jail for obstructing. If youve got a lot of money have at it and the lawyers can sort it out. But in the field you lose and for what purpose? i like my guns and having them at my house and not in a police evidence locker. But hey to each his own and court pays overtime.

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pipedreams
03-04-2012, 15:20
Are those jobs dangerous, of course. Dangerous in the same way? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Your correct the danger in every job is different. But as I said when one accepts the job one hopefully know what goes with it. The guy at the alligator farm should not work there if he is afraid of getting bit. He will goes around all day wondering which one is going to bite him. He should work somewhere else where he is not afraid. I have had very few encounters with LE during my life and in each case found the officer very polite and I was polite and on my way in a few minutes.

TBO
03-04-2012, 15:35
Your correct the danger in every job is different. But as I said when one accepts the job one hopefully know what goes with it. The guy at the alligator farm should not work there if he is afraid of getting bit. He will goes around all day wondering which one is going to bite him. He should work somewhere else where he is not afraid. I have had very few encounters with LE during my life and in each case found the officer very polite and I was polite and on my way in a few minutes.
Knowing the potential risks of a job does not mean that the person doing that job can't take reasonable precautions to help minimize those risks.

Every occupation out there has continued to make stides in the safety of it's workers, LE is no different.

Bill Lumberg
03-04-2012, 15:36
Correct. The cell tower will never intentionally pull a firearm and shoot you or knock you off intentionally. High voltage power lines dont conceal the amount of electricity and then shock you when you touch it. Bigg difference between me falling off a tower or touching a line and someone pulling a firearm on me and shooting me. I hate this argument as they are clearly apples and oranges. Are those jobs dangerous, of course. Dangerous in the same way? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

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Bruce M
03-04-2012, 15:38
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0843/Sections/0843.02.html

oldsoldier
03-04-2012, 15:41
You do not have to inform a LEO officer you are carrying in MO. However you must answer truthfully if a LEO asks. The CCW license number is the same as the drivers license number. LEOs will know that you have a CCW license when they run the drivers license or license plate through MULES provided the car is registered to CCW permit holder.

SCC
03-04-2012, 15:48
that it !!! why make it hard for them to do thier job



I don't believe GA has any duty to inform, nor on the once I've been stopped since having my permit was I asked (didn't have it anyway).

However, my perspective, if I was, is this - I would rather politely inform the officer that for both our benefits I would like him to know that I have a permit and am carrying and a verbal description of where before I remove my hands from the steering wheel.

I know they have a stressful job at times, and I'd rather be honest about it and forward, and I feel it puts them at ease (hopefully). I'd rather do it that way then reach for my wallet and have him see it and wonder what I'm really reaching for.

pipedreams
03-04-2012, 15:50
Knowing the potential risks of a job does not mean that the person doing that job can't take reasonable precautions to help minimize those risks.

That's as it should be.

Every occupation out there has continued to make stides in the safety of it's workers, LE is no different.

My point was many jobs have extreme dangers maybe different than LE but they need to understand the danger when taking on the job. Yes do the job as safely as possible and hats off to those dealing with some of the crazies.

Spiffums
03-04-2012, 15:55
I'd like to see some honest numbers of officer's getting shot by CCW holders during traffic stops.

I'd think the ones without a permit/license are the ones the officers to protect themselves from.

geoemery
03-04-2012, 16:06
From the informational brochure With CCP http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/license-brochure.pdf

Law Enforcement Contact

The concealed carry law requires you to display your photo identification and concealed carry license upon the request of a law enforcement officer when youare carrying a concealed weapon. For your safety and the safety of the law enforcement officer, we recommend the following actions to avoid raising alarming the officer and ensure the contact goes as smoothly as possible.

1.Cooperate fully with the officer.
2.If you are in a vehicle, roll down the window.
3.At night, turn on the dome light.
4.Stay in the vehicle unless the officer tells you to get out.
5.Keep your hands where the officer can see them. If you are in a vehicle, the best place to put them is on the steering wheel.
6.Immediately and calmly tell the officer that you have a concealed carry license and are carrying a weapon.
7.Tell the officer where your permit and weapon are located. Do not reach for them unless specifically told to by the officer. Don’t make any quick movements.

In some circumstances the officer may ask to take temporary possession of the weapon to ensure the safety of the officer and others. However, in routine non-arrest contacts, the officerwill return the weapon to you at the end of the contact.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 17:37
Id love to Wi statute 946.41 knowingly giving false information to a police officer is a misdemenaor offense. Semantics is for court. I ask you if you have a gun while we're on a stop and you say no and i find a gun youre going to jail for obstructing. If youve got a lot of money have at it and the lawyers can sort it out. But in the field you lose and for what purpose? i like my guns and having them at my house and not in a police evidence locker. But hey to each his own and court pays overtime.

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you are correct, do not give an WI officer false information while he is performing his official duties. you wouild be obstructing or resisting.

I think that applies to everyone regardless of how much money they have.

:)

kensteele
03-04-2012, 17:39
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0800-0899/0843/Sections/0843.02.html

Nothing to see there.

My goodness, you guys don't even know your rights. :whistling:

Please don't post disorderly, obstructing statutes unless you support them to apply to anyone and everyone (including yourself) whenever the officer decides he doesn't like something. Instead post the lying statutes (the one I asked for) where the penalty is for telling the lying, not to impending, obstructing, violating, stopped, hindering, or resisting an official process.

When an officer asks "Where are you coming from?" he is not asking in an official capacity. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION TRUTHFUL ELSE GET ARRESTED FOR LYING. Just don't answer, like I said.

If your state requires you to appropriately respond about your weapon and your permit, you need to do so because there are laws that penalize you for doing so. If not required in your state, there is no lying statute that will snag you if you don't.

IANAL

Warp
03-04-2012, 17:40
Since when it is crime to lie to police at a traffic stop? ............

ken: And often times the guy who lies because it is 'legal' ends up with more tickets, more fines, or more bracelets when that lie is detected, or even suspected.

Not ALL speech is protected...

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This does not answer my question in any way, shape, or form.

Do you intend to answer my question?

HarleyGuy
03-04-2012, 17:51
Not really UofM has that "ordinance" and since they are not preempted by state law you're pretty much screwed.

True, but I haven't heard of anyone being charged for merely walking through the campus via sidewalkor driving through on the street.
I would think it may be become an issue if a CPL holder was involved in some sort of incident and just happened to be armed.

SGT_Calle
03-04-2012, 17:52
Honesty is the best policy, I think.
GA does not have a duty to inform so I doubt I would volunteer the info on a traffic stop, but if asked I would honestly answer.
I'm in a unique position in that I carry on my military ID, which is an exemption GA has. I worry occasionally that if in a situation I may be dealing with a LEO who is not completely aware of said exemption. I figure it will all work out fine regardless. I try to avoid interactions with law enforcement as a rule.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 17:53
ken: And often times the guy who lies because it is 'legal' ends up with more tickets, more fines, or more bracelets when that lie is detected, or even suspected.


Agreed. If you commit other crimes and other violations, write the citation and/or make the arrests. Not a problem.

When an officer catches you in a lie, he should take whatever action he determines necessary to satisfy his official investigation.

I do have a problem with arresting someone for saying they just came from school when in fact they just came from work. No one should be arrested for that and I disagree with any statute that permits an officer to arrest you for telling him you just came from school when he saw you come from work, absent of any other factors and specifically when you are required to tell OR failure to tell is considered a lie.

Not that I support the lie, not at all. But, I support your right to free speech and you right to remain silent. I really would prefer not to have an officer determine what is a lie or what is the truth and take action on that at the traffic stop.

My opinion.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 17:56
True, but I haven't heard of anyone being charged for merely walking through the campus via sidewalkor driving through on the street.
I would think it may be become an issue if a CPL holder was involved in some sort of incident and just happened to be armed.

I might have been confused about this. I thought he said if you are walking on the university campus and you run into an officer who makes official contact, you are required by law to disclose your weapon to him. And, if you disclose your weapon you will be certainly arrested because having a weapon on the university campus is illegal. Did I get that right? Either you are guilty of carrying on the campus or you are guilty of failure to disclose....if caught.

Warp
03-04-2012, 17:57
I do have a problem with arresting someone for saying they just came from school when in fact they just came from work. No one should be arrested for that and I disagree with any statute that permits an officer to arrest you for telling him you just came from school when he saw you come from work, absent of any other factors and specifically when you are required to tell OR failure to tell is considered a lie.

I must have missed where this scenario was up for discussion, or how this was what you were referring to. Got a quote?

freeride88
03-04-2012, 17:58
If I ask you if you are armed or have a weapon in the vehicle and you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly.

If you lie to me about having a weapon on you or in your vehicle and I catch you, I'm going to charge you with every possible violation I can.

Lying or withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 18:03
I must have missed where this scenario was up for discussion, or how this was what you were referring to. Got a quote?

You didn't miss it. Ignore that statement, sorry.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 18:09
If I ask you if you are armed or have a weapon in the vehicle and you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly.

If you lie to me about having a weapon on you or in your vehicle and I catch you, I'm going to charge you with every possible violation I can.

Lying or withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.

Agreed that would be silly to not tell an officer about a weapon on your person when he asks. Besides, in my state, the condition of my permit requires me to answer the officer truthfully when he asks about my permit or my weapon. Not a problem here.

Bruce M
03-04-2012, 19:03
Nothing to see there.

My goodness, you guys don't even know your rights. :whistling:

Please don't post disorderly, obstructing statutes unless you support them to apply to anyone and everyone (including yourself) whenever the officer decides he doesn't like something. Instead post the lying statutes (the one I asked for) where the penalty is for telling the lying, not to impending, obstructing, violating, stopped, hindering, or resisting an official process.

When an officer asks "Where are you coming from?" he is not asking in an official capacity. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION TRUTHFUL ELSE GET ARRESTED FOR LYING. Just don't answer, like I said.

If your state requires you to appropriately respond about your weapon and your permit, you need to do so because there are laws that penalize you for doing so. If not required in your state, there is no lying statute that will snag you if you don't.

IANAL
Here the Obstructing without Violence Statute, FSS 843.02 is regularly used for instance when someone lies about their identity. For practical purposes offering some act without violence that obstructs the officer's ability to perform his duties is defined as a crime by this statute. I remain quite confident that someone who lies about not having a gun while having contact with the police in Florida risks arrest and prosecution. My position is that lying to the officer in Florida is not in and of itself a crime, but lying about something that effectively hinders the officer is a crime.

coqui33
03-04-2012, 19:29
If ... you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly. ... withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.
Agreed. And by the same token, if you mistreat a citizen for refusing to answer your interrogation without his lawyer, you're not going to like what happens when your civil rights violation comes to trial. Posting on a public forum your intent to do this is a very stupid game indeed.

kensteele
03-04-2012, 20:40
Here the Obstructing without Violence Statute, FSS 843.02 is regularly used for instance when someone lies about their identity. For practical purposes offering some act without violence that obstructs the officer's ability to perform his duties is defined as a crime by this statute. I remain quite confident that someone who lies about not having a gun while having contact with the police in Florida risks arrest and prosecution. My position is that lying to the officer in Florida is not in and of itself a crime, but lying about something that effectively hinders the officer is a crime.

Agreed. In many states, lying about your identify is a crime. I can agree with that. Not violent in any way but lying about who you are when the polices asks you to identify yourself according to the law probably hinders the police in their official duties. So yes, we can agree on that. Good law.

Hour13
03-04-2012, 21:06
Ok, just want to throw this out there... We're on the same side.

I'm not LE, I carry to help protect me and mine. I like getting home alive at the end of the day.

The police have the unfortunate task of constant exposure to the worst scum, while maintaining a polite, professional disposition with the rest of us. All while trying to ensure they get home alive at the end of the day.

If you get stopped, be honest, be polite. You may get the occasional D-bag, it happens. But for the most part, not being a prick will make everybody's day easier.

RussP
03-04-2012, 21:12
If I ask you if you are armed or have a weapon in the vehicle and you refuse to answer, you're not going to like what happens next. That sounds potentially threatening, and you will be dealt with accordingly.

If you lie to me about having a weapon on you or in your vehicle and I catch you, I'm going to charge you with every possible violation I can.

Lying or withholding information from an officer about a weapon on your person is a really stupid game.Agreed. And by the same token, if you mistreat a citizen for refusing to answer your interrogation without his lawyer, you're not going to like what happens when your civil rights violation comes to trial. Posting on a public forum your intent to do this is a very stupid game indeed.My read-between-the-lines fu is not as good as yours, I guess. Exactly what did freeride88 post that shows intent to violate the civil rights of anyone? Please be specific - for the internet record.

Thanks

MLittle
03-04-2012, 21:18
In Texas, if a police officer asks you, you answer honestly. Yes or no. Not hard at all.

:cool:


Actually, in Texas your are REQUIRED by law to promptly notify an officer at a traffic stop that you are a holder of concealed carry permit.

For the life of me, I don't understand some folks suspicion or downright dislike of police officers. I think they deserve our respect for doing a difficult job......

Deaf Smith
03-04-2012, 21:29
In Texas, if a police officer asks you, you answer honestly. Yes or no. Not hard at all.

The very fact the cop asked if a ) you were armed AND b) if you were a CCW holder would lead me to believe that if you were a CCW holder they would view you with an eye of being a good guy.

You see if they asked only if you were armed, I'd suspect they might arrest you for illegal possession, but adding the 'are you a CCW holder' would tend to mean are you packing legally.

Here in Texas if a cop asked for your ID, you HAVE to show your CHL license when you show them your ID. And yes, if a cop asked if I was a CHL holder and packing I'd tell them.

Here in Texas CHL holders are not deemed suspected criminals-to-be by 99.999 percent of the police (a few new transplants from NJ or NYC might still not have the word but most do.) And this is why I'm quite happy living in Texas (but then I'm a natural born Texican.)

Deaf

ICARRY2
03-04-2012, 21:43
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

Maybe he (or she) is looking for a shooting buddy. :tongueout:

Make a good impression, relax and stop looking for the boogie man around every corner.

USCgrad
03-04-2012, 21:43
i as a rule always give my CCW licence if stopped, it has my DL# on it as well, mostly so he isn't surprised by the fact i'm carrying...i usually as a rule do what ever possible to make sure the LEO is as comfortable as possible in our interaction..over kill maybe but i usually get treated better if im up front...

James Dean
03-04-2012, 21:53
Florida you don't have to inform and I wouldn't unless asked. Just the facts mam. Once you inform its not only about the traffic stop now a gun is in the mix. I just stick to the facts. if asked I would answer.

G26AZ
03-04-2012, 22:12
I've only had one contact with the Police in the 17 yrs I've had my permit - last month. I was out on one of my walks, and I usually pickup cans on my walks, or out of the dumpsters I pass. At one of the dumpsters, twp bicycle cops approached me and started talking to me about what I was doing, why, etc. I thought they were just curious until they told me I was violating a city ordinance by taking cans out of dumpsters. (I thought I was recycling!) When they finally asked for my DL, I realized that I was probably going to get a citation, and at that time informed them that I was armed and had a CCW. (CCW not necessary in AZ if you're over 21 and have a clean record). When I told them, they both got very irate that I hadn't immediatley informed them when they first approached me and were telling me that I HAVE to inform them on first contact . . . (AZ law says to inform if asked - they hadn't asked me). Until they asked for my ID, I honestly thought they were just passing the time of day - I had NO idea that picking up cans from dumpsters was against the law or I would not have been doing it.
The thought of trying to correct their mistaken interpretation of the law crossed my mind, but I figured that would probably not help the situation so I kept my thoughts to myself. They never asked to see the weapon or took it from me, but continued to "lecture" me the rest of the time they were writing the citation.
When they left, I had mixed feelings. Yes, I had (unknowingly) been doing something wrong and realized that I deserved the (warning) citation I got. However, AZ has had CCW in effect since 1994, and neither one of these officers were old enough to have been serving that long. But why would they be telling me the incorrect version of the law? AZ says that if asked by the LEO, I must inform him I am armed, and when they asked for my DL, I did tell them. But, AFAIK, AZ does not require me to inform any LEO upon first contact.
(ARS 13-3112. Concealed weapons; qualification; application; permit to carry; civil penalty; report; applicability

A. The department of public safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a person who is qualified under this section. The person shall carry the permit at all times when the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and is required by any other law to carry the permit. If the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and is required by any other law to carry the permit, the person shall present the permit for inspection to any law enforcement officer on request)

mingaa
03-04-2012, 22:12
In MO they know if they run the plates and you are the owner of the car. In MO one is not required to reveal that you have a CCW - not the case in all states. Some offer the info thinking they are starting off on the right foot. I've done that once and the Outcome was somewhat positive. I've never been stopped for other than speeding and the CCW is not really relevant IMHO. No LEO has asked since and i am always carrying. I'd give minimum info politely if I were asked. I dare say that I'm NOT in the high profile group - 50s, professional, decent car, well dressed if I'm in work clothes. We're all human and I'm not looking for an anti carry LEO (person) to take me to task or someone coming off a bad experience to spill it on me. Keep it legal. Keep it minimal and to the point. Respond to questions with care and reserve. My two bits.

MrVvrroomm
03-05-2012, 00:00
Don't talk to police.

kensteele
03-05-2012, 00:19
I've only had one contact with the Police in the 17 yrs I've had my permit - last month. I was out on one of my walks, and I usually pickup cans on my walks, or out of the dumpsters I pass. At one of the dumpsters, twp bicycle cops approached me and started talking to me about what I was doing, why, etc. I thought they were just curious until they told me I was violating a city ordinance by taking cans out of dumpsters. (I thought I was recycling!) When they finally asked for my DL, I realized that I was probably going to get a citation, and at that time informed them that I was armed and had a CCW. (CCW not necessary in AZ if you're over 21 and have a clean record). When I told them, they both got very irate that I hadn't immediatley informed them when they first approached me and were telling me that I HAVE to inform them on first contact . . . (AZ law says to inform if asked - they hadn't asked me). Until they asked for my ID, I honestly thought they were just passing the time of day - I had NO idea that picking up cans from dumpsters was against the law or I would not have been doing it.
The thought of trying to correct their mistaken interpretation of the law crossed my mind, but I figured that would probably not help the situation so I kept my thoughts to myself. They never asked to see the weapon or took it from me, but continued to "lecture" me the rest of the time they were writing the citation.
When they left, I had mixed feelings. Yes, I had (unknowingly) been doing something wrong and realized that I deserved the (warning) citation I got. However, AZ has had CCW in effect since 1994, and neither one of these officers were old enough to have been serving that long. But why would they be telling me the incorrect version of the law? AZ says that if asked by the LEO, I must inform him I am armed, and when they asked for my DL, I did tell them. But, AFAIK, AZ does not require me to inform any LEO upon first contact.
(ARS 13-3112. Concealed weapons; qualification; application; permit to carry; civil penalty; report; applicability

A. The department of public safety shall issue a permit to carry a concealed weapon to a person who is qualified under this section. The person shall carry the permit at all times when the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and is required by any other law to carry the permit. If the person is in actual possession of the concealed weapon and is required by any other law to carry the permit, the person shall present the permit for inspection to any law enforcement officer on request)

That's interesting. How about Constitutional carry, if an AZ law-abiding citizen is legally carrying concealed and does not have a permit, do they have to immediately notify LEO upon first contact else face santions? Did you ask them that? j/k I wouldn't have asked that either, you did right the way you handled it IMO.

NMPOPS
03-05-2012, 00:48
Don't talk to police.

Typical.

On the AZ issue no you do not have to inform unless asked whether you carry under a ccw or constitutionally.

Sent from my Ally

JuneyBooney
03-05-2012, 01:23
I don't tell and I have not been asked but look at the state laws and see what it says. If you say no he could charge you with lying to a police officer.

coqui33
03-05-2012, 06:40
My read-between-the-lines fu is not as good as yours, I guess. Exactly what did freeride88 post that shows intent to violate the civil rights of anyone? Please be specific - for the internet record.
Gladly. His threat was in the words "you're not going to like what happens next." If freeride88 had RAS he would be authorized to conduct a Terry search, an action that neither I nor any other law-abiding citizen would object to. In the unlikely event that I were curious about the specifics of his Terry RAS, I would file suit and ask him to state his RAS under oath (in light of the video). But, again, no one is going to object to the valid RAS-based Terry search itself.

But freeride88 is not suggesting a Terry search. He used language ("you are not going to like what happens next" followed by "you will be dealt with accordingly") meant to intimidate by threatening something far beyond Terry (which no one would object to): a baseless search? a baseless arrest? a beating perhaps? maybe worse?

Thank you for the opportunity to reply. Some LEOs get into the bad habit of routinely threatening a beat-down in order to intimidate. Sometimes they get away with such verbal assault. It is a bad habit nonetheless.

1911ES
03-05-2012, 08:32
I would rather be stopped by a police women .. :whistling: ... but I don't mind if they inquire.

I was pulled over a couple years ago by my local PD, for doing 10 over. I showed my CCP as I handed them my license.
They returned to my vehicle a moment later and said "'have a nice day". (and no ticket)

It's always better to communicate.

eclark53520
03-05-2012, 08:43
I make it a point to answer police officers questions honestly.

If they violate my rights, I have avenues of recourse for that. Namely the court system.


Life is much easier when you're honest and up front. That goes for everything, not just dealing with cops.

Darkangel1846
03-05-2012, 13:11
You should answer "WTF is your need to know, you fracken idiot!" Have who ever is with you video the beating you get then file suit against the city or county for excessive force. OR.....you could just say yes or no.

MoneyMaker
03-05-2012, 13:18
Go ahead and say you dont have to answer that. Enjoy spending the entire traffic stop standing outside of your car and told not to move. Hostility is met by the same. Oh and a police officer can ask anything they please. Remember the first amendment that you all complain the police are trying to take away? they still have it as well. enjoy your tickets. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Youll be the first one to complain too when a cop asks that question you chose not to answer and he sees your firearm and draws his on you. Again you play stupid gamea you win stupid prizes.

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So you are saying if you dont answer his questions the way he wants,he will pull a gun on you?

Gunnut 45/454
03-05-2012, 13:22
madcitycop
And you would be the type of LEO that would charge the guy with making a false statement right? OP the catch 22 is you could be charge with making a false statement if you answered no when you actually were CCWing. So the correct answer would be yes I'm carring and then go from there. If they make your life hell for compliance the make sure you make there life hell by filing a complaint! See madcitycop **** flows both ways!:faint:

Respect by both parties can go along way!

Sam Spade
03-05-2012, 14:32
That's interesting. How about Constitutional carry, if an AZ law-abiding citizen is legally carrying concealed and does not have a permit, do they have to immediately notify LEO upon first contact else face santions? Did you ask them that? j/k I wouldn't have asked that either, you did right the way you handled it IMO.

There is no requirement to volunteer. There is a requirement to answer truthfully if asked.

madcitycop
03-05-2012, 16:41
madcitycop
And you would be the type of LEO that would charge the guy with making a false statement right? OP the catch 22 is you could be charge with making a false statement if you answered no when you actually were CCWing. So the correct answer would be yes I'm carring and then go from there. If they make your life hell for compliance the make sure you make there life hell by filing a complaint! See madcitycop **** flows both ways!:faint:

Respect by both parties can go along way!

You can bet your rear hes going in. If you tell me you dont have a gun and lie and i find one guess what my gun comes out and i take that seriously its not a toy and you would have caused that so you bet your going to jail. Nice try with the two way street thing do some research before you spout i was and am pro ccw in WI.

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madcitycop
03-05-2012, 16:45
So you are saying if you dont answer his questions the way he wants,he will pull a gun on you?

No sorry thats not what i meant. If someone is not going to answer my question about a firearm in a vehicle they will be told to step oit of the vehicle and they can spend the duration of the stop standing on the side of the road. Sure you dont have to answer but the officer then has the right to order you to exitthe vehicle and remain out of the vehicle for the duration. But i guess if not answering the question makes you the winner in that scenario have at it lol. Hope its not cold or raining.

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G26AZ
03-05-2012, 17:15
There is no requirement to volunteer. There is a requirement to answer truthfully if asked.

That was what made me wonder why they were so adamant that I "had" to inform them the moment they stopped to talk with me. They didn't say "it would be better for our officer saftey if you told us immediately" or anything like that, they kept telling me that I "had" to inform them right up front. If I do like they insisted I do, I can visualize something like this happening if I pass a cop coming out of the bathroom of a McDonald's or something:

cop: "Hey, hows it going?"

me: "I've got a gun"

cop: (you fill in what the next line would be!)

Bob Hafler
03-05-2012, 17:20
I would have no problem telling him what he wanted to know. For that matter I'd let him know right off I'm CC without him asking buy just handing him my LTCF with my drivers licence and owners card. I always found that if you show respect you usually get it back. Cops today are trying to do there jobs as best they can with one arm tied behind there backs. They like everyone else just wants to go home to there familes at the end of the work day.. That might sound pro cop but it's really just giving the respect you'd want if the shoe was on the other foot. Why make life tougher on yourself or anyone else more than it already is.

TexasFats
03-05-2012, 18:10
There is no requirement to volunteer. There is a requirement to answer truthfully if asked.

That depends on the state. Texas requires that CHL holders notify police officers whether they ask or not. What is not clear is if the duty to notify extends to someone carrying in their car (legal in Texas without a CHL). There, my policy would be to give an honest reply if asked but not volunteer any information.

Any time a cop gets a surprize involving the presence of a gun, things may get unpleasant.

LApm9
03-05-2012, 20:44
I would have no problem telling him what he wanted to know. For that matter I'd let him know right off I'm CC without him asking buy just handing him my LTCF with my drivers licence and owners card. I always found that if you show respect you usually get it back. Cops today are trying to do there jobs as best they can with one arm tied behind there backs. They like everyone else just wants to go home to there familes at the end of the work day.. That might sound pro cop but it's really just giving the respect you'd want if the shoe was on the other foot. Why make life tougher on yourself or anyone else more than it already is.

+1

We should always remember that they are on our side...some more than others though.:supergrin:

I would counsel against lying in response to an official inquiry. It has the potential to go poorly for you.

In the course of my official duties I sometimes get the responses "I would rather not say" or "I respectfully decline to answer." It really doesn't bother me because it is really an answer in itself (like "Yes I did but I don't want to admit it!"), and it just means that the other guy knows "the rules".

I find it surprising that an answer such as that would greatly upset a patrol officer. In my situation, if I went to extremes in my investigation as a result of such an answer, it would be considered "retaliation", and I would be written up.

Different world, I suppose.

kensteele
03-05-2012, 21:25
+1

We should always remember that they are on our side...some more than others though.:supergrin:

I would counsel against lying in response to an official inquiry. It has the potential to go poorly for you.

In the course of my official duties I sometimes get the responses "I would rather not say" or "I respectfully decline to answer." It really doesn't bother me because it is really an answer in itself (like "Yes I did but I don't want to admit it!"), and it just means that the other guy knows "the rules".

I find it surprising that an answer such as that would greatly upset a patrol officer. In my situation, if I went to extremes in my investigation as a result of such an answer, it would be considered "retaliation", and I would be written up.

Different world, I suppose.

+gazillion

RenegadeGlocker
03-05-2012, 21:49
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

I was pulled over under pretense in MD (while driving TX plate vehicle) and that was the first question asked. I told the truth (yes/no), and then spent the next 10 minutes interrogating me about it, looking to trip me up. Eventually he let me go.

I told the truth only because of any chance he might have been able to obtain access to TX/DL DB which IDs me as CHL.

RenegadeGlocker
03-05-2012, 21:55
Actually, in Texas your are REQUIRED by law to promptly notify an officer at a traffic stop that you are a holder of concealed carry permit.



Here in Texas if a cop asked for your ID, you HAVE to show your CHL license when you show them your ID. And yes, if a cop asked if I was a CHL holder and packing I'd tell them.


That depends on the state. Texas requires that CHL holders notify police officers whether they ask or not.


While the law still requires it, the penalty for not providing it has been removed.

And if you do not have a CHL there is no law requiring you to notify at all. Texas still have stupid laws.

What is not clear is if the duty to notify extends to someone carrying in their car (legal in Texas without a CHL).

Texas has no laws requiring NON-CHLs to ID themselves as gun-toters like it does with CHL law. That is why the penalty for CHLs to ID themselves was removed.

Misty02
03-06-2012, 05:35
Agreed. And by the same token, if you mistreat a citizen for refusing to answer your interrogation without his lawyer, you're not going to like what happens when your civil rights violation comes to trial. Posting on a public forum your intent to do this is a very stupid game indeed.

It is no different than at most jobs; mine is regulated by state law and corporate rules. I can't bend on state laws, but might be inclined to work with someone that didnít exactly comply with the corporate rules. Their attitude has a great impact on how I would handle things. If it is a small infraction, I may look the other way and just alert the person on how to fix it or do it correctly the next time. If it is a bigger infraction I may help them fix it or give them time to fix it themselves. However, if the person actively works at antagonizing me, I know the rules well enough to make it very unpleasant for that person. I donít have to do anything unprofessional or unethical, all I have to do is go by the book (without mercy or compassion) and tag them for absolutely every i they didnít dot and every t they didnít cross. With everyone being so overworked now days, it really isnít that difficult to find tons of errors/mistakes without looking too deep. How deep is a person willing to motivate me to look?

Pretty much what freeride88 stated, make my job more difficult or unpleasant than it has to be and Iíll make sure that person has a very bad day (week, month or year). Have the right attitude and be pleasant and Iíll help just about anyone to stay out of trouble, if it is within my power to do so.

.

RussP
03-06-2012, 10:05
It is no different than at most jobs; mine is regulated by state law and corporate rules. I can't bend on state laws, but might be inclined to work with someone that didnít exactly comply with the corporate rules. Their attitude has a great impact on how I would handle things. If it is a small infraction, I may look the other way and just alert the person on how to fix it or do it correctly the next time. If it is a bigger infraction I may help them fix it or give them time to fix it themselves. However, if the person actively works at antagonizing me, I know the rules well enough to make it very unpleasant for that person. I donít have to do anything unprofessional or unethical, all I have to do is go by the book (without mercy or compassion) and tag them for absolutely every i they didnít dot and every t they didnít cross. With everyone being so overworked now days, it really isnít that difficult to find tons of errors/mistakes without looking too deep. How deep is a person willing to motivate me to look?

Pretty much what freeride88 stated, make my job more difficult or unpleasant than it has to be and Iíll make sure that person has a very bad day (week, month or year). Have the right attitude and be pleasant and Iíll help just about anyone to stay out of trouble, if it is within my power to do so.

.:thumbsup:

Sam Spade
03-06-2012, 11:30
That depends on the state.
Indeed it does. And the question I was responding to (and quoted) clearly shows that I was addressing an Arizona issue.

blk69stang
03-06-2012, 11:49
If asked, and if you are not required by law to tell them, and you didn't want to tell them, you could always simply state:

"Sir, I respectfully wish to exercise my right to remain silent".

series1811
03-06-2012, 11:56
Don't talk to police.
or anybody else.

Sam Spade
03-06-2012, 12:14
If asked, and if you are not required by law to tell them, and you didn't want to tell them, you could always simply state:

"Sir, I respectfully wish to exercise my right to remain silent".

You understand that this actually answers the question, right? We're on the street, not in a court, and the rules of evidence don't apply. And here's the cop thinking---you don't really have a right to remain silent. What you have is a right to not incriminate yourself ("No person...shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself.") Street-wise, what you're telling the guy is that a truthful answer is going to provide evidence against you. Odds are, the hunt is now on.

And off to the side, since you're here in AZ, you are required by law to answer. It's a misdemeanor if you don't.

Glockdude1
03-06-2012, 12:36
If asked, and if you are not required by law to tell them, and you didn't want to tell them, you could always simply state:

"Sir, I respectfully wish to exercise my right to remain silent".

In any state, you say that to a police officer, and that officer will become very suspicious of you.

Not good.

Bren
03-06-2012, 12:40
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

OK.

Not answering is an answer, of course. Here they just get it when they run your plates.

Why don't you want to answer? Secret government database? it's already a government record. Think the police are going to come and steal your guns? They already have guns.

Why would I have to feel "compelled" to answer the question? If the police say, "how's it going?" do you say, "am I required to answer that question?"

Better question, why are people who post everything they think on the internet, afraid to give the police a simple yes or no?:rofl:

Creatism
03-06-2012, 12:47
Texas answered that question for me, Texas is an inform state. So I have to tell the officer that I armed as soon as I am able to!


Typed from my iPhone.

madcitycop
03-06-2012, 14:36
Gladly. His threat was in the words "you're not going to like what happens next." If freeride88 had RAS he would be authorized to conduct a Terry search, an action that neither I nor any other law-abiding citizen would object to. In the unlikely event that I were curious about the specifics of his Terry RAS, I would file suit and ask him to state his RAS under oath (in light of the video). But, again, no one is going to object to the valid RAS-based Terry search itself.

But freeride88 is not suggesting a Terry search. He used language ("you are not going to like what happens next" followed by "you will be dealt with accordingly") meant to intimidate by threatening something far beyond Terry (which no one would object to): a baseless search? a baseless arrest? a beating perhaps? maybe worse?

Thank you for the opportunity to reply. Some LEOs get into the bad habit of routinely threatening a beat-down in order to intimidate. Sometimes they get away with such verbal assault. It is a bad habit nonetheless.

I see a slight problem with this and certainly its a matter of articulation but for a terry stop you must have RS to believe the person is armed AND dangerous. Barring any other action such as posturing or reaching id be hard pressed to find a danger in someone refusing to answer thereby asserting Terry. Im surely going to have you exit the vehicle and remain outside and within my view but im not quite sure youd be at the standard in Terry yet.

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madcitycop
03-06-2012, 14:38
If asked, and if you are not required by law to tell them, and you didn't want to tell them, you could always simply state:

"Sir, I respectfully wish to exercise my right to remain silent".

Do people really not understand that Miranda applies in situations of custody and interrogation? neither of which falls into play on a traffic stop?

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TN.Frank
03-06-2012, 15:12
Here in Tennessee if you get pulled over the dispatcher tells the officer if you've got a handgun permit when he calls in 28's and 29's so he doesn't have to ask you, he'll know.

RichardinNC
03-06-2012, 15:36
I don't think you are in the minority when you make that statement and I fully agree with you. But we need to keep the following in mind. Just like a school teacher, crossing guard, or a dog catcher the policeman applied for the job. Going into that career or any other job one should understand what is involved. If you want to be a dog catcher there is a good chance your going to get bit. There are many jobs with dangers that can get you killed or maimed. Think about the person that climbs cell towers every day, or the guy working on high voltage power lines.

I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that certain jobs carry a reasonable expectation of injury or unexpected consequences of a persons profession.

I worked, a long time ago, in heavy construction. Oil refineries, conventional powerhouses, chemical plants, etc. There were certain aspects of the work environment that I could not control but, for the most part, most accidents were avoidable and the result of human error or misjudgment on the part of the injured person.

I also am a tree work professional and spent a lot of time doing topping, take down and utility line clearing jobs. This included climbing and bucket truck work. I never accepted that my work had the expectation of injury or other mayhem even though it was ranked second, after commercial fishing, as the most dangerous profession. Again, most injuries and fatalities were the result of worker error or misjudgement.

Having said all this, there is no way that I would ever compare the dangerous work that I have done to the risks that any LEO professional takes on a daily basis. All my years of exposure to danger would not, in my humble opinion, equal one traffic stop where I would walk up to a car not knowing who was inside or what their mental state and intentions were. I was never exposed to as many random and unknown factors as they are every day. I always inform them that I have a CHP, even if I don't have a weapon with me, out of respect and also the fact that a license check will show the permit anyway. If I encounter one bad attitude, oh well. The most that's going happen is my feelings get hurt a little and tomorrow's another day. I wouldn't know what it's like to work in their environment so I'll maybe go a little extra distance to set their mind at ease. As always, just my $0.02 and just my way of looking at this situation.

Glockaholic2
03-06-2012, 16:10
I'm not sure what the big deal is about answering a question. As others have stated, in most states, like Texas, the officer will most likely already know when he gets to your window. I've only been pulled over once since I've gotten my CHL. By the time the officer got to me I had my drivers license, CHL and registration ready to give to him. He asked if I had a weapon in my position and said I didn't. He gave me a warning and let me go on my way.

RussP
03-06-2012, 16:42
Better question, why are people who post everything they think on the internet, afraid to give the police a simple yes or no?:rofl:That's a trick question, right, counselor?

crashwg
03-06-2012, 19:08
I realize most of this thread has been about traffic stops but it has brought to mind a question that I've been pondering about notifying LE of CCW.

A couple factors before the question:
Manchester, NH has recently been known for harassing law-abiding firearm carriers.
NH state law prohibits Cities, Towns, etc. from creating their own ordinances regarding firearms.
CCW permit holders are not required to notify. I'm not sure if that extends to if you are asked though...

So what I've been considering is that at a local event that takes place annually in a city park will be coming up soon and if I were to go and chose to be armed, would I answer if asked by LE. I certainly would carry an audio recording device (openly) if I chose to do so, that's for sure.

1smoothredneck
03-06-2012, 19:53
Um, as some have stated, lying to a LEO will NOT end well for you. EVER. Having served briefly as a deputy(Man they do not make enough for what they do!) I assure you, the officer you lie to will more than likely know he's being played and take offense. And, if not,but in the course of the stop, he "makes" the gun, your life will take a rapid, drastic, and probably irrevocable turn for the worse. These guys are just doing a job. Most are squared away professionals, some are scum. That's just the way of it. Same with burger cooks and contractors. Human Nature says a % will not bless your life.
Just get through the occasional bad ones. Stay calm, be polite. Best Wishes.

Louisville Glocker
03-06-2012, 22:48
I haven't been pulled over for anything since I've been carrying (about a year and a half now). However, I'm sure it will happen eventually. (well, most likely, right?)

When it does, I will be as cooperative as possible with the officer. OF COURSE, if he asks if I'm carrying, I'll tell him. Really, when you're pulled over, you want to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Think about it from his perspective. Don't be a dick. In fact, I plan to offer the information (that I have a conceal carry license, and I am carrying today). Sure, it is possible I may get some paranoid angry anti-gun cop, but more than likely, I'll get a reasonable officer who will appreciate me being up-front with him.

Time will tell, but treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself. That goes for police officers too. They're doing a tough job out there. I try to do my part by giving them one less guy to ticket (I watch my speed on the highways, and try not to roll through toooo many stop signs..haha). I drive a Volvo XC (wagon) so I think from the get go I get a little bit of a pass. (expensive car, conservative, no tinted windows, etc). If I drove a beater, I'd expect to get pulled over much more often - as is, probably will be many years until my luck runs out.

I carry in WI with an out of state CCDW license. I go up pretty often, and I'll definitely inform the officer.

(29 years driving, three speeding tix)

Louisville Glocker
03-06-2012, 22:57
Do people really not understand that Miranda applies in situations of custody and interrogation? neither of which falls into play on a traffic stop?

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No, they don't.

Most people are clueless about their rights. Really. (heck, most people in the US don't know how many senators they have or much of anything else they haven't "learned" from tv or talk radio)

RJ's Guns
03-06-2012, 23:53
They do not have to ask me. When I was stopped, the first thing that I did was roll down my window so we could communicate and I put my hands on the steering wheel, where my hands were clearly visible. When the officer approached me I volunteered; “Officer I have a concealed weapons permit and my pistol is in a holster on my right hip under my shirt. What do you want me to do?”

I figured that if the situation was reversed and I was the cop, that is how I would want a legally armed person to act. I am afraid that I do not understand the original poster’s reaction.
RJ

janice6
03-07-2012, 01:04
Seems that some people forget that when working dangerous jobs, the worker is in in charge of the situation and controls how the job will be performed,to ensure the workers safety.

They see to also forget that in a traffic stop, the driver is not in control of the situation, the officer is in charge of the situation, and he controls how the job will be performed, to ensure the officers safety.

In the traffic situation the effort for personal safety reverts to the officer, not the driver.

Nanuk
03-07-2012, 01:26
Why the drama? What have you to gain by being a jerk?

For 6 years of my 32 year LE career I was a big city cop, before moving to the feds. If I stopped someone they were doing something drastically wrong, I did not have time unless they were going 15-20 MPH over the speed limit in and out of traffic, or worse.

It is incumbent on YOU to know your rights. If a cop asks you a question about a traffic violation what harm is there in answering the question? Is it gonna lead to the 300LBS of weed in the back seat? Don't worry the cop can smell it and then its PC. I hated writing tickets, I was always getting chewed out for not writing enough. Most of the tickets I wrote were people who failed the attitude test-As soon as I walked up they were a jerk.

If you are legally carrying, tell the cop. There is nothing he can do about it if you are legal. I always assumed everybody was armed, that way, if they tried something stupid they were staring down the barrel of my 357. Someone driving like a fool, the way they pull over, what are they doing as they pull over, where are they looking? All of these little things would paint a picture and would temper my approach, sometimes the ole 357 was in my hand by my leg.

For an educated, aware, experienced cop it is not hard to articulate RS for a Terry search. Lying is like a house of cards.

Bren
03-07-2012, 05:52
Agreed. And by the same token, if you mistreat a citizen for refusing to answer your interrogation without his lawyer, you're not going to like what happens when your civil rights violation comes to trial. Posting on a public forum your intent to do this is a very stupid game indeed.

I've been away from this thread too long.

Do you actiually think you have a right to counsel at a traffic stop?

You don't. I haven't reasearched it lately, but I believe asking for one can also be used against you in court to imply guilt, at that point.

Bren
03-07-2012, 06:04
One thing people might want to consider, since non-cops rarely know or think about this: Your legislators have created such a web of laws that every time you drive across town without a ticket or arrest it's more than likely because the police didn't see you or didn't have time to fool with you, not becauase you didn't break a law for which they could write you a valid ticket.

If you decide to be unfriendly at a traffic stop, where they have probably already got you for at least 1 potential violation, all the police have to do to retaliate is enforce the laws the way they're written on the books. I always felt like it was a good lesson for smart***es to learn more about the laws of their community - like the ones about signalling turns and illuminated, properly displayed license plates and windowns obstructed with decals, etc..

Misty02
03-07-2012, 06:29
Seems that some people forget that when working dangerous jobs, the worker is in in charge of the situation and controls how the job will be performed,to ensure the workers safety.

They see to also forget that in a traffic stop, the driver is not in control of the situation, the officer is in charge of the situation, and he controls how the job will be performed, to ensure the officers safety.

In the traffic situation the effort for personal safety reverts to the officer, not the driver.

See, I agree and at the same time disagree with that comment, but I admit it may be a matter of perception. It doesnít matter as long as the results are the same though, does it?

I havenít been stopped in a long time, and not yet since I started carrying. When I had, in the past, I believed I was the one in control. Yes, the officer initiated the stop because I violated a traffic law. However, after that point it was up to me to control how the rest of it went; including, but not limiting the tone of the exchange. My goal was for it to go smoothly with the best possible result for me. What I project to others (not just officers) has an enormous impact in what I will receive from them.

How certain am I that we are actually in more control than we think at a traffic stop? Well, in my younger years I had a tad of a led foot. Not once was I ever stopped unjustly. However, I never got a ticket, when I was in control. I did get two tickets, within the same week, on the same street, by the same officer (that happened over a decade ago). I was going through some personal stuff and was being a real jerk to just about everyone around me. I wasnít in control, was upset and treated others poorly. The way I see it, I got back exactly what I deserved, nothing more, nothing less.

Donít take my comment to mean that I believe Iím in complete control of everything around me, because I know Iím not. At the same time, I believe that weíre in more control (we all are) of more things than we think.

If we were to take a minute to analyze interactions we have had with other normal people that have gone wrong (or not to our satisfaction) we will often be able to identify the point where things went wrong and what we could have done to deescalate the exchange. There are usually opportunities we missed to turn it around.

It is mostly when we donít take responsibility for our own conduct and relinquish control to others that things donít go as we wish (at traffic stops or just about everywhere else).





P.S. Ė this doesnít apply to criminals or other people with evil intent determined to go through with their original plan.

.

RichardinNC
03-07-2012, 07:00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

Just something to read.

DScottHewitt
03-07-2012, 16:07
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

It's about "officer safety". It's a lot better {FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED} if your armed status does not become an issue in an unexpected way. And, in some states, you have to inform the officer, even if they do not ask.....

Gunnut 45/454
03-07-2012, 17:41
Bren
O.K lets get into the legal weeds here. On a traffic stop once the lights go on and your pulled over - you are not free to leave until the office either writes you a ticket, or gives to you warning etc Right? Therefore you are detained- not free to leave. So when this happens anything you say can and will be used against you if further charges are filed correct? This is the hole point of this thread - if once pulled over you are asked to provide information that is not required to be given by law- but your detained so if you answer to the negative and you are actually carrying - then are found to be carrying you will most likely be charged with providing a false statement. So I'd say involking ones right to be silent is totally correct. Rather then fall into the trap and being made to provide reason for arrest. If the law in the state where the CCW holder is stop does not have to notify then it should also be unlawful for the officer to ask.:whistling:

kensteele
03-07-2012, 18:26
Seems that some people forget that when working dangerous jobs, the worker is in in charge of the situation and controls how the job will be performed,to ensure the workers safety.

They see to also forget that in a traffic stop, the driver is not in control of the situation, the officer is in charge of the situation, and he controls how the job will be performed, to ensure the officers safety.

In the traffic situation the effort for personal safety reverts to the officer, not the driver.

I agree with your statement 100%. Because of officer safety, the officer is in absolute complete control of the siuation....you as the driver, the only thing you have left within your control is your imagination (if you have how to use it), nothing more. lol

Look, you don't even have to stop if I don't want to. In some towns, if you don't yield when the lights come on for a traffic violation, the police will eventually break it off and they'll send you a summons to court and you'll end up with a ticket and a fine, perhaps.

If a traffic stop is so dangerous, why not just send the traffic ticket in the mail and don't bother with putting the driver and the officer in such terrible danger?

:supergrin:

LApm9
03-07-2012, 18:59
One thing people might want to consider, since non-cops rarely know or think about this: Your legislators have created such a web of laws that every time you drive across town without a ticket or arrest it's more than likely because the police didn't see you or didn't have time to fool with you, not becauase you didn't break a law for which they could write you a valid ticket.

If you decide to be unfriendly at a traffic stop, where they have probably already got you for at least 1 potential violation, all the police have to do to retaliate is enforce the laws the way they're written on the books. I always felt like it was a good lesson for smart***es to learn more about the laws of their community - like the ones about signalling turns and illuminated, properly displayed license plates and windowns obstructed with decals, etc..

If I am armed I would definitely advise a officer of that fact. If I had a weapon in the glove compartment, console, etc., or otherwise accessible, I would advise the officer of that fact. I would do so regardless of the laws in the jurisdiction I was in. The reasons are many and obvious.

Now, if a was asked "do you have any weapons in the vehicle?", the correct answer would have to be "yes" correct? After all I have a jack handle right? And that 2-3/4" blade pocket knife, right? This is the problem with those "easy answers".

Following along, if I had a disassembled shotgun in a locked case in the trunk, I would have to answer affirmatively if I were asked "do you have any guns in the car?". If my suspicions are correct, that would entitle the officer to search the vehicle. I also suspect that I would not be compensated for any damage to the vehicle incurred during the search

I am certain that very few officers would chose to acquaint me with the laws of their community for no good reason, but some will, and that concerns some of us.

I know I sometimes have bad days, but I consider it a matter of professional pride that I do not allow it to affect the performance of my duties. With apparently innocent and casual question I could lure what you would consider a perfectly innocent person into a major offense...but I won't... because that would be wrong.

I really respect and honor you for what you do all of us everyday. Period. I just want you to think a little bit about right and wrong.

MarkM32
03-07-2012, 19:19
As a LEO in Virginia, I generally don't care as long as it's a routine stop. If it becomes more complicated, and I need them to come out, the very first thing I want is hands, and the knowledge that there are no weapons on their person.

Honestly, there are many different ways I've been told someone is armed. As a young deputy, I had a gentleman come right out and say 'I have a gun.' That made me very nervous. Now not so much, but the way I prefer is being handed their CHP with their license and registration. Then comes, hands on the wheel, where is it, come on out of the vehicle.

There are ways to do it and ways not to. My preferred way to be notified, and I know many others do is how I mentioned. Just my. 02

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kensteele
03-07-2012, 19:23
One thing people might want to consider, since non-cops rarely know or think about this: Your legislators have created such a web of laws that every time you drive across town without a ticket or arrest it's more than likely because the police didn't see you or didn't have time to fool with you, not becauase you didn't break a law for which they could write you a valid ticket.

If you decide to be unfriendly at a traffic stop, where they have probably already got you for at least 1 potential violation, all the police have to do to retaliate is enforce the laws the way they're written on the books. I always felt like it was a good lesson for smart***es to learn more about the laws of their community - like the ones about signalling turns and illuminated, properly displayed license plates and windowns obstructed with decals, etc..

I think that is the exact definition of "being treated like a criminal." When you are preceived as being an "unfriendly", then "all the police have to do to retaliate" is manipulate some of the laws on the books in a way in which they were not meant in order to teach you a lesson.

For example:

You don't even have to say anything. You could be an unfriendly simply by the driving maneuver you just pulled, or the type of car that you drive, or the color of your skin, or your driving record, or an bob dole bumper sticker.

For example:

You could be arrested and your car impounded if you don't have current proof of insurance. Even after you have written tickets for the past 9 drivers with insurance cards greater than 30 days old but less than 60 days (per standard policy), you arrest and impound the 10th "unfriendly" with a card that expired a few hours ago at midnight by preversing the laws that "your legislators have created such a web of laws that every time you drive across town"....

Basically I feel you are treated like a criminal when the police unfairly use the laws against you as a form of retaliation. Bren said it, at least we know at a minimum, it's on some minds.

Maybe when you are asked, you just shouldn't say much of anything so you mimimise the chance of you becoming an "unfriendly."

Bren
03-08-2012, 05:44
Bren
O.K lets get into the legal weeds here. On a traffic stop once the lights go on and your pulled over - you are not free to leave until the office either writes you a ticket, or gives to you warning etc Right?


Right


Therefore you are detained- not free to leave. So when this happens anything you say can and will be used against you if further charges are filed correct?


Correct, although whether you are free to leave has nothing to do with it - the police can use anything they find out about you against you, whether you are detained or not.


This is the hole point of this thread - if once pulled over you are asked to provide information that is not required to be given by law- but your detained so if you answer to the negative and you are actually carrying - then are found to be carrying you will most likely be charged with providing a false statement. So I'd say involking ones right to be silent is totally correct. Rather then fall into the trap and being made to provide reason for arrest. If the law in the state where the CCW holder is stop does not have to notify then it should also be unlawful for the officer to ask.:whistling:

Huh? If you are legally carryiung a gun and truthfully answering isn't evidence of a crime or embarrassing or a secret (the police work for the government that issued you the permit, after all) why would you lie about it?

Your argument is, you should remain silent so you won't have to lie?...about having a legal concealed weapon?...the point of all of my responses is, why would you want to lie in the first place?

Bren
03-08-2012, 05:51
I think that is the exact definition of "being treated like a criminal." When you are preceived as being an "unfriendly", then "all the police have to do to retaliate" is manipulate some of the laws on the books in a way in which they were not meant in order to teach you a lesson.


Nobody said manipulate. I said all the police have to do is "enforce the laws the way they're written on the books." In other words, stop giving you the breaks that they give most people as a routine. If you're just an average guy, the police routinely overlook your minor violations all day long, because they have bigger fish to fry. become an ***hole and all they have to do is stop overlooking and enforce the law - you gave them a reason to dedicate the time to you.

A very simple example - around election time, lots of people put campaign stickers on their car windows, so they don't have to get them off the paint later. That's against the law here, other than in a small area of the rear window. Nobody stops a car for that, unless they suspect a more serious crime and nobody writes a citation for that...unless the driver is an ***hole or suggests that they need to prove they had a legal reason for stopping him. In those cases, I would always let them have a judge explain that I really had a reason to stop them and I'd include every reason there was.

Bruce M
03-08-2012, 06:35
.... If the law in the state where the CCW holder is stop does not have to notify then it should also be unlawful for the officer to ask.:whistling:
Is there ever a time in a "non-notify" state that it might be appropriate for the officer to inquire regarding guns?

HK Dan
03-08-2012, 06:46
In Iowa we are not required to inform unless asked. I don't need a GLOCK screwedin my ear and people shouting "Get down" at me, so I don't say squat unless they ask. IF they ask, they have a reason, and yes, I tell them. OP--are ya stupid? You're going to take a traffic ticket and turn it into a night in jail, posted bail, a trial with legal expenses, potential jail time and fines, and a damned good tongue lashing from the judge while you're being fitted for your orange jump suit.

Don't be stupid, be honest.

Dan

Glockrunner
03-08-2012, 07:18
OK.

Not answering is an answer, of course. Here they just get it when they run your plates.

Why don't you want to answer? Secret government database? it's already a government record. Think the police are going to come and steal your guns? They already have guns.

Why would I have to feel "compelled" to answer the question? If the police say, "how's it going?" do you say, "am I required to answer that question?"

Better question, why are people who post everything they think on the internet, afraid to give the police a simple yes or no?:rofl:

In many circumstances the police initiate conversations first with a salutation. Our nature requires you to reply likewise, in a friendly state. The police have no duty to inform you that you may be under investigation at that point. Now that they have your attention, and you have agreed to be detained with your knowledge, they can continue their investigation and may present questions that can cause you to incriminate yourself, or lead to a search.

It is my understanding that if you are detained in this manner, you should immediately ask, "Officer, are you conducting an official investigation?" If so, then you may need to exercise your rights or, ask for your lawyer really, badly about right NOW! And you have a duty in many states at that point to inform the officer that you are carrying (or follow whatever your state law requires).

By getting the officer to inform you that he is conducting business, it becomes business for you too. Same should apply if asked for ID.

So, you're walking down the street, Man in Blue hails you with a "Good Morning Sir!," by all means be polite and return the salutation AND keep walking.

If you get a "Hey Mister, come back here for a second," you're being detained. Now, it is up to you to know your rights and exercise them while dealing with the Man in Blue while he performs his job.

I expect the officer to use every tool in his bag to catch bad guys because I use every tool in my bag to acomplish what I do for a living. Usually, as I understand it, the best officers get the most respect.

mj9mm
03-08-2012, 08:23
Go ahead and say you dont have to answer that. Enjoy spending the entire traffic stop standing outside of your car and told not to move. Hostility is met by the same. Oh and a police officer can ask anything they please. Remember the first amendment that you all complain the police are trying to take away? they still have it as well. enjoy your tickets. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Youll be the first one to complain too when a cop asks that question you chose not to answer and he sees your firearm and draws his on you. Again you play stupid gamea you win stupid prizes.

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nice going HuggyTree, you pissed off a Madison Cop:rofl:

Misty02
03-08-2012, 09:15
Is there ever a time in a "non-notify" state that it might be appropriate for the officer to inquire regarding guns?

If I were an officer (which Iím not) I would assume there is at least one firearm in every vehicle stopped. That doesnít mean I wouldnít ask though, I may ask just to observe the reaction to the question and the type of answer I get (more the tone and body language than the words actually spoken).
.

RussP
03-08-2012, 09:45
If I were an officer (which Iím not) I would assume there is at least one firearm in every vehicle stopped. That doesnít mean I wouldnít ask though, I may ask just to observe the reaction to the question and the type of answer I get (more the tone and body language than the words actually spoken).
.:cool:

MarkM32
03-08-2012, 10:21
From what I'm understanding, you don't want the police to know if you're armed? .... aren't we on the same team?

As far as giving false information, I'd advise against that. It is a crime, and when it is found that you are carrying, its going to turn a different ball game altogether.

If you are pulled over, it is official business right from the start. Yes, if stopped for breaking the law, you are required to provide any and all information you are asked, and to the best of your knowledge.

As far as we try to play games, that's entirely incorrect. I'm pretty straight up with you, return the courtesy.

We also get a notification on our mdt.

FWIW, I was a chp holder before I was a deputy. The way I feel about cc, you're there to assist the police. That doesn't mean go be a vigilante, it means if there is a life threatening situation, you should act to prevent or mitigate it, in a lawful manner.

I don't understand what the issue is with some of you.

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mdsn969
03-09-2012, 01:35
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.

You should know the following if you have a WI CCW License (straight from the statutes)...

While the law does not impose any specific requirements other than displaying a photo ID and CCW license upon request of a law enforcement officer, there are some recommended actions you should take when you have contact with a law enforcement officer. Contact can include a traffic or other stop and situations where you contact an officer or when an officer approaches you for information or otherwise. If you have a CCW license and you have contact with a law enforcement officer while carrying a concealed weapon, you should do the following:

1. Immediately tell the officer that you're carrying a concealed weapon and where it's located.
2. Keep your hands where the officer can see them.
3. Cooperate fully with the officer.
4. Don't make any quick movements, especially toward the weapon.
5. If you're in a vehicle:
- Roll down your window and place your hands in plain view on the steering wheel
- If it is at night, turn on the vehicle's dome light.
- Calmly tell the officer you have a CCW license and that you have a weapon with
you. Ask the officer if they have particular instructions concerning the weapon.
- Do not touch or attempt to touch the weapon unless specifically told to do so by
the officer.
- Do not leave your vehicle unless specifically told to do so by the officer.

In certain circumstances, a law enforcement officer may ask to take temporary possession of the weapon or may seize the weapon during interaction with the individual to ensure the safety of the officer and others or to secure the weapon as evidence. The officer will return the weapon at the end of the stop unless the individual is placed under arrest for a violation of the law that allows the weapon to be seized.

Treat the WI LEO's with respect and they will do the same... All in all a good bunch of folks.

MoneyMaker
03-09-2012, 05:26
Missouri guys on the carry forum,Well they say they tell them nothing and they dont let them take there gun,them some tuff guys over there.

series1811
03-09-2012, 05:56
Missouri guys on the carry forum,Well they say they tell them nothing and they dont let them take there gun,them some tuff guys over there.

The internet is a hard, cruel, place.

Bren
03-09-2012, 06:09
In many circumstances the police initiate conversations first with a salutation. Our nature requires you to reply likewise, in a friendly state. The police have no duty to inform you that you may be under investigation at that point. Now that they have your attention, and you have agreed to be detained with your knowledge, they can continue their investigation and may present questions that can cause you to incriminate yourself, or lead to a search.

It is my understanding that if you are detained in this manner, you should immediately ask, "Officer, are you conducting an official investigation?" If so, then you may need to exercise your rights or, ask for your lawyer really, badly about right NOW! And you have a duty in many states at that point to inform the officer that you are carrying (or follow whatever your state law requires).

By getting the officer to inform you that he is conducting business, it becomes business for you too. Same should apply if asked for ID.

So, you're walking down the street, Man in Blue hails you with a "Good Morning Sir!," by all means be polite and return the salutation AND keep walking.

If you get a "Hey Mister, come back here for a second," you're being detained. Now, it is up to you to know your rights and exercise them while dealing with the Man in Blue while he performs his job.

I expect the officer to use every tool in his bag to catch bad guys because I use every tool in my bag to acomplish what I do for a living. Usually, as I understand it, the best officers get the most respect.

Are you 14 years old?

I ask because that doesn't seem like anything adults I know think about dealing with the police. It reads like the thinking of a kid who wants to pretend he's an outlaw or secret agent.

You didn't even mention that part about why you are trying to hide the fact that you have a CCW permit from the same government that gave it to you.

glock_collector
03-09-2012, 07:49
I dont believe this is brain surgery, They have the right to ask for their safety as well as yours....Dont do stuff thats against the law and no worries. Dig thru my truck if you dont believe me officer, hell flip it upside down and shake it, just put my stuff back when your done and I'm outta here!

SolidGun
03-09-2012, 09:32
I think the question really comes down to how much retainer fee goes out of your account every month for legal representation and how much time you have that day/week/month.

If you have nothing to hide, just answer the question courteously and move on.

If you don't want to answer, refuse to answer and waste time.


Is it so hard to use "you're" vs "your"?

Mr Spock
03-09-2012, 10:43
I would personally rather take the risk of having a gun-phobic cop call for backup and be hyperactive over legally carrying than I would that same gun-phobic cop finding out for any other reason than me informing him. Him finding out by me informing makes him less likely to draw/point a gun at me/shoot me accidentally or on purpose than him finding out because I bent over to get to the glove compartment and my short rode up...

Worst case scenario of informing beats worst case scenario of not informing. Plus, if he wants to act inappropriately, I plan to comply 100% to any and all commands up to and including improper detainment or arrest and then take it up as a legal matter after the fact if necessary. Fighting would only weaken my position against his inappropriate actions later in court.

If the officer wants to act like the ones I've run into so far, they'll be cool about it and either not care at all or strike up a conversation about what I am carrying.

SGT278ACR
03-09-2012, 12:06
If the officer wants to act like the ones I've run into so far, they'll be cool about it and either not care at all or strike up a conversation about what I am carrying.

^^^Exactly this. Having been a LEO in the past I can say this... any cop with common sense isn't worried about an armed person with a CCW permit. If a person takes the time to go through all the pain-in-the-butt steps it takes to be legally armed... that tells me they are a law-abiding citizen who is trying to do the right thing. I'm worried about the illegal carrying criminal d-bags who are armed, not a legally armed citizen.

FlCracker70
03-09-2012, 13:32
I dont believe this is brain surgery, They have the right to ask for their safety as well as yours....Dont do stuff thats against the law and no worries. Dig thru my truck if you dont believe me officer, hell flip it upside down and shake it, just put my stuff back when your done and I'm outta here!

I think what is said here sums up the problem with informing when not legally required.

1) I will not consent to have my car searched without a search warrant. I frankly don't care what the officer believes or if he would like to look to in my car for some other reason.

2) Taking a firearm from me and then running the serial numbers is wrong on many levels. First I consider it an unreasonable search and seizure as there was no probable cause for the officer to take it from me in the first place. If he wants to run my permit to see if I'm legal then I'm OK with that (I frankly don't even think this is constitutional BUT they are now the laws of my state) but once it comes back that I have a permit to legally conceal, I don't lose that right in the presence of an officer.

The whole bit of officer safety is a BS smokescreen in my opinion. Taking a gun out that an officer may have no idea how to handle properly is more dangerous.

Gunnut 45/454
03-09-2012, 15:24
Bren
The point is why should the officer put you in the possition to lie? If I'm not required to inform you then you shouldn't be able to put me in the position to have to lie about it!Asking when your not authorized to find out is subverting the law which allows me not to inform. I'm under no oblligation to give you any more information then is required for you to complete the reason for the stop. IE I have a broken tail light I hand you my DL.Reg, Insurance card so you can write the ticket. I'm under no obligation to answer any other questions unless you make it clear that your investigating other crimes I may have committed. This is the point.

Mr.Reignman
03-09-2012, 16:03
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.
Fairly certain you don't have any clue. How did you receive your permit? Regardless professional courtesy and miranda, when you signed up for your permit, you acknowledged the section where it stipulates your requirement to notify all peace officers of your weapons status. IE: Excuse me sir, I am carrying my sidearm, I do have a CCP for it.......

SouthernBoyVA
03-09-2012, 16:50
In my state, there is no duty to inform. In the two times I have been stopped by an LEO since I started carrying on a regular basis in 1995, I have chosen to inform (at the time, it was suggested one do this). And neither of those times was I being stopped for a standard traffic violation (whatever that might mean).

Now my personal take is this. It would depend upon several factors such as my mood at the time, the officer's demeanor, etc., but generally I will inform. The reason is because I don't like surprises and I'm sure the LEO doesn't either. I don't know what kind of day he's had, what kind of person he encountered in his last stop. He wants to go home safe and sound as much as I do. So based upon these factors, my inclination is to inform.

And there is a side benefit for those of us who carry. It can help establish, foster, and further good relations between our public law enforcement servants and those of use who choose to carry.

Bruce M
03-09-2012, 16:54
...

1) I will not consent to have my car searched without a search warrant. I frankly don't care what the officer believes or if he would like to look to in my car for some other reason.

2) Taking a firearm from me and then running the serial numbers is wrong on many levels. First I consider it an unreasonable search and seizure as there was no probable cause for the officer to take it from me in the first place.....

At the risk of straying off topic are there times when a vehicle may be searched without a search warrant? What happens if the officer has decided to search without a warrant and he discovers your firearm, either in the car or during a frisk?

Is it possible that a court may consider some searches reasonable even though you do not? What if the officer has probable cause (or perhaps the threshold is reasonable suspicion) but happens to elect to not tell you what is the cause or suspicion?

pipedreams
03-09-2012, 17:22
^^^Exactly this. Having been a LEO in the past I can say this... any cop with common sense isn't worried about an armed person with a CCW permit. If a person takes the time to go through all the pain-in-the-butt steps it takes to be legally armed... that tells me they are a law-abiding citizen who is trying to do the right thing. I'm worried about the illegal carrying criminal d-bags who are armed, not a legally armed citizen.

I would hope this is true, make good sense to me.

SGT278ACR
03-09-2012, 17:50
I would hope this is true, make good sense to me.

Yep. Unfortunately many of my law enforcement colleagues around the country don't use good sense. Just like with any other group of people... there's decent ones and there's bad ones.

wprebeck
03-09-2012, 18:08
I think what is said here sums up the problem with informing when not legally required.

1) I will not consent to have my car searched without a search warrant. I frankly don't care what the officer believes or if he would like to look to in my car for some other reason.


Good luck with that. Let me know how jail, then prison, suits you.

An example of how wrong you are is easy - having an open container in my state is illegal. I can issue a citation for the offense, or arrest you - either one. If I so choose, I can conduct a search of your vehicle for further evidence of the crime for which I am arresting (or citing, since the "release" portion is up to officer discretion, with certain exceptions).

I don't NEED a warrant, since search incident to arrest has always been allowed, but the Gant decision limited the scope of the search somewhat.

Again, since a cite/release is still considered an "arrest" for legal purposes in my state, I'm within my rights to perform a search for further contraband/evidence related to the crime. I might not find any, then cut you loose with a ticket. I might find more, and transport you to jail. Of course, if you're a dick - guess which option is going to happen?


2) Taking a firearm from me and then running the serial numbers is wrong on many levels. First I consider it an unreasonable search and seizure as there was no probable cause for the officer to take it from me in the first place. If he wants to run my permit to see if I'm legal then I'm OK with that (I frankly don't even think this is constitutional BUT they are now the laws of my state) but once it comes back that I have a permit to legally conceal, I don't lose that right in the presence of an officer.

The whole bit of officer safety is a BS smokescreen in my opinion. Taking a gun out that an officer may have no idea how to handle properly is more dangerous.

There is some case law on running a serial number on a firearm during a traffic stop, I believe - but, I'm not for sure; perhaps one of our more knowledgeable folks can chime in, otherwise, I'll hit some research if I get the chance.

But, it doesn't matter what YOU think is reasonable...not on the street. You can have your chance to argue the point in court. Arguing with an officer, on the street, over a firearm will have naught but an ill result. Likely the one where you end up dead, because of your "I don't think" and "I don't have a clue, but this is the way I think it should be" attitude.

The latter is evident, as you have no idea of how and when a search warrant is necessary.

Bruce M
03-09-2012, 18:10
^^^... Having been a LEO in the past I can say this... any cop with common sense isn't worried about an armed person with a CCW permit....


Hmm - I am going to guess that one or more of the officers who may have a bit more experience than you as an officer might disagree with this. How about this guy - a permit holder- anything for an officer to be concerned about? http://www.ohio.com/news/judge-sentences-ashford-thompson-to-death-for-killing-officer-1.194093

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2008/07/how-did-twinsburg-cop-killer-have-a-concealed-carry-license/

wjv
03-09-2012, 18:31
While I kinda understand what the OP is getting at, as it sure sounds like the Chief has a political bug up his butt, (and yes, I could be wrong about that), on the flip side it is common for cops to ask:

"is there anything illegal in the car?"
(A = NO)
"is there anything I should be concerned about in the car?"
(A = probably answer NO)
"Are there any drugs in the car?"
(A = NO)
"Are there any guns in the car?"
(A = YES)
"Would it be OK if I looked inside the trunk, search the vehicle?"
(A = NO)

Note: I live in a Not Required to Notify State

wjv
03-09-2012, 18:43
Good luck with that. Let me know how jail, then prison, suits you.

I don't NEED a warrant, since search incident to arrest has always been allowed, but the Gant decision limited the scope of the search somewhat.

Again, since a cite/release is still considered an "arrest" for legal purposes in my state, I'm within my rights to perform a search for further contraband/evidence related to the crime.

And what evidence might you expect to find related to a broken tail light, or a failure to use a turn directional, or even speeding if the person driving does NOT appear to be drunk, or under the influence? And there is no open container, guns, drugs in open view?

http://flexyourrights.org/faq/74

pipedreams
03-09-2012, 18:56
Yep. Unfortunately many of my law enforcement colleagues around the country don't use good sense. Just like with any other group of people... there's decent ones and there's bad ones.
You sound like a sensible person so don't let others cloud your mind. You know your community, just use good common sense and be safe.

wprebeck
03-09-2012, 19:27
And what evidence might you expect to find related to a broken tail light, or a failure to use a turn directional, or even speeding if the person driving does NOT appear to be drunk, or under the influence? And there is no open container, guns, drugs in open view?

http://flexyourrights.org/faq/74

And, you miss the point.

I replied to a person who stated he would NOT allow a search of his vehicle without a warrant. I gave an example, and stated that this was merely an example, of a situation that allows me to search a vehicle without the need for a warrant. Other exceptions apply - search incident to arrest is just one.

Since you're so versed on search & seizure law, perhaps YOU could list a couple of other exemptions?

MoneyMaker
03-09-2012, 20:18
Good luck with that. Let me know how jail, then prison, suits you.

An example of how wrong you are is easy - having an open container in my state is illegal. I can issue a citation for the offense, or arrest you - either one. If I so choose, I can conduct a search of your vehicle for further evidence of the crime for which I am arresting (or citing, since the "release" portion is up to officer discretion, with certain exceptions).

I don't NEED a warrant, since search incident to arrest has always been allowed, but the Gant decision limited the scope of the search somewhat.

Again, since a cite/release is still considered an "arrest" for legal purposes in my state, I'm within my rights to perform a search for further contraband/evidence related to the crime. I might not find any, then cut you loose with a ticket. I might find more, and transport you to jail. Of course, if you're a dick - guess which option is going to happen?



There is some case law on running a serial number on a firearm during a traffic stop, I believe - but, I'm not for sure; perhaps one of our more knowledgeable folks can chime in, otherwise, I'll hit some research if I get the chance.

But, it doesn't matter what YOU think is reasonable...not on the street. You can have your chance to argue the point in court. Arguing with an officer, on the street, over a firearm will have naught but an ill result. Likely the one where you end up dead, because of your "I don't think" and "I don't have a clue, but this is the way I think it should be" attitude.

The latter is evident, as you have no idea of how and when a search warrant is necessary.

So your saying you as a officer would shoot to kill someone if they dont give you there lawfully owned weapon and endorsed by your state and your sheriff to legaly carry it?,Wow i would have to say cops like you are gonna cause some states to banckrupt faster then obahma

firedog03
03-09-2012, 20:36
I have been an LEO in North Carolina for the past 7 years. In those 7 years I have only charged 2 people that held CCW permits, with a charge related to the CCW. For me its simple, you tell me you have a firearm, I am completely cool with it, to an extent. I don't know about other states, but NC also has a "carrying after consuming" statute. the "consuming" can be alcohol or narcotics(I have charged it). For the safety of YOURSELF, I would recommend informing the officer you have your CCW permit and weapon on you. I think its plain stupid not to inform them. Most states have the CCW connected to either your drivers license of registration, so its gonna be found out sooner or later, and if I find out later...then you're going to jail on a carrying concealed weapons charge, and I'm seizing your weapon..and your permit. So basically, you will possibly have at least a $1,000 bond to post, then you lose your gun at least until it goes to court(that could take at least 3 months), and possibly getting your CCW permit permanently revoked..now to answer your question, "If a policeman asks if you are a CCW" I think your response should simply be "Yes sir I am". You may win in court, but hell, it has cost you more time and money than it should have. Don't be a prick and try to claim you have the right NOT to answer without your attorney..the CCW is a PRIVILEGE, just as a Driver License is a PRIVILEGE. If you are driving, you need a license, and if you are stopped, you must present your DL, so why should the same not be true for CCW if you are carrying concealed?

firedog03
03-09-2012, 20:48
And I agree with wprebeck, and at the end of his comment where he says "But, it doesn't matter what YOU think is reasonable...not on the street. You can have your chance to argue the point in court. Arguing with an officer, on the street, over a firearm will have naught but an ill result. Likely the one where you end up dead, because of your "I don't think" and "I don't have a clue, but this is the way I think it should be" attitude. , I would say he is meaning, that people can do dumb things, and before they know it, they have lost control of their emotions, and a fight has ensued, and knowing that they have had one gun on them, there could possibly be another, so the use of force continuam has escalated, so the the possibility of the offender getting shot, is there.

wprebeck
03-09-2012, 20:49
So your saying you as a officer would shoot to kill someone if they dont give you there lawfully owned weapon and endorsed by your state and your sheriff to legaly carry it?,Wow i would have to say cops like you are gonna cause some states to banckrupt faster then obahma

Given the decided lack of ANY semblance of proper grammar to be found the your post, it's fairly obvious why you completely misunderstood and misinterpreted my earlier comment.

RussP
03-09-2012, 21:24
MoneyMaker, keep things in context. Here is the conversation.
2) Taking a firearm from me and then running the serial numbers is wrong on many levels. First I consider it an unreasonable search and seizure as there was no probable cause for the officer to take it from me in the first place. If he wants to run my permit to see if I'm legal then I'm OK with that (I frankly don't even think this is constitutional BUT they are now the laws of my state) but once it comes back that I have a permit to legally conceal, I don't lose that right in the presence of an officer.

The whole bit of officer safety is a BS smokescreen in my opinion. Taking a gun out that an officer may have no idea how to handle properly is more dangerous.But, it doesn't matter what YOU think is reasonable...not on the street. You can have your chance to argue the point in court. Arguing with an officer, on the street, over a firearm will have naught but an ill result. Likely the one where you end up dead, because of your "I don't think" and "I don't have a clue, but this is the way I think it should be" attitude.So your saying you as a officer would shoot to kill someone if they dont give you there lawfully owned weapon and endorsed by your state and your sheriff to legaly carry it?,Wow i would have to say cops like you are gonna cause some states to banckrupt faster then obahmaGiven the decided lack of ANY semblance of proper grammar to be found the your post, it's fairly obvious why you completely misunderstood and misinterpreted my earlier comment.firedog03 summed it up well...And I agree with wprebeck, and at the end of his comment where he says "But, it doesn't matter what YOU think is reasonable...not on the street. You can have your chance to argue the point in court. Arguing with an officer, on the street, over a firearm will have naught but an ill result. Likely the one where you end up dead, because of your "I don't think" and "I don't have a clue, but this is the way I think it should be" attitude. , I would say he is meaning, that people can do dumb things, and before they know it, they have lost control of their emotions, and a fight has ensued, and knowing that they have had one gun on them, there could possibly be another, so the use of force continuam has escalated, so the the possibility of the offender getting shot, is there.

work2ride
03-09-2012, 21:27
I know what I'm going to do if I get asked. I'm going to hand him/her my drivers license with my CC license and wait for him to ask me if i'm armed. Think about this. You get stopped, tell the officer on the drivers side of the vehicle you are a cc permit holder and have your gun. His rookie partner is walking up on the passenger side and you don't realize he's there, all he hears is ''I have a gun''. How could that turn out? I don't want to find out. The leo's are pretty cool here anyway (I live in Appleton) and I would rather tell them with an id.

kensteele
03-09-2012, 22:26
I have been an LEO in North Carolina for the past 7 years. In those 7 years I have only charged 2 people that held CCW permits, with a charge related to the CCW. For me its simple, you tell me you have a firearm, I am completely cool with it, to an extent. I don't know about other states, but NC also has a "carrying after consuming" statute. the "consuming" can be alcohol or narcotics(I have charged it). For the safety of YOURSELF, I would recommend informing the officer you have your CCW permit and weapon on you. I think its plain stupid not to inform them. Most states have the CCW connected to either your drivers license of registration, so its gonna be found out sooner or later, and if I find out later...then you're going to jail on a carrying concealed weapons charge, and I'm seizing your weapon..and your permit. So basically, you will possibly have at least a $1,000 bond to post, then you lose your gun at least until it goes to court(that could take at least 3 months), and possibly getting your CCW permit permanently revoked..now to answer your question, "If a policeman asks if you are a CCW" I think your response should simply be "Yes sir I am". You may win in court, but hell, it has cost you more time and money than it should have. Don't be a prick and try to claim you have the right NOT to answer without your attorney..the CCW is a PRIVILEGE, just as a Driver License is a PRIVILEGE. If you are driving, you need a license, and if you are stopped, you must present your DL, so why should the same not be true for CCW if you are carrying concealed?

this is a global forum with members from all over the country in various states with different state laws. relax, no one is suggesting a nc permit holder to fail to immediately notify leo of their permit and firearm. even non-resident must comply when within your state boundary and we know that and will abide by it no matter how silly it is.

J-Pat
03-09-2012, 23:51
I don't have my CCW, so maybe that doesn't give me the right to comment; however I feel that I might have something worth contributing.

Two hypothetical (worst case) scenarios

A- The officer walks up to your window, you do not take your hands off the wheel until instructed to do as such and you immediately notify him by stating; "Excuse me, Sir, but I would like to inform you that I am legally concealing a firearm. It is in XXX position in an XXX-type holster". The officer who has pulled you over decides that he does not like persons who have a CCW permit and gives you an extraordinarily hard time. He immediately asks you to step out of the car, disarms you; is verbally aggressive to you.

The cop decides he wants to search your car - you can decline. Even if he does at this point, you have grounds to appeal it.

The stop takes a little while longer than you would like- So what? If ten minutes of your time is that precious, please, never fly, visit a national landmark, or drive during rush hour.

The absolute worst that occurs from this is a LOT of wasted time.



Now, let's consider the flip side.
Same cop, same stop.

B: The officer walks up to the window. You roll your window down and say as little as possible. The officer is equally short with you. He asks if you are carrying a concealed weapon. You don't answer, or lie. You open up your glovebox and accidentally drop your registration. As you lean forward, the butt of your weapon is exposed- and the LEO sees it. The LEO then begins to panic, and as you turn around to face him again, your hand moves a little too quickly. The LEO panics, draws his weapon and discharges it, killing you.

Whether the LEO in question is in the right is irrelevant. You are dead. No amount of legal restitution will bring you back, nor will adequately comfort your family.


IMHO, if an officer asks you something, you might as well be honest - It's not worth potentially dying over. YMMV

FlCracker70
03-10-2012, 00:53
Don't be a prick and try to claim you have the right NOT to answer without your attorney..the CCW is a PRIVILEGE, just as a Driver License is a PRIVILEGE. If you are driving, you need a license, and if you are stopped, you must present your DL, so why should the same not be true for CCW if you are carrying concealed?

The reason they are not the same is the constitution of the united states which outlines the RIGHTS of the people. So yes I'll be a "prick" and not allow a right to be morphed into a "privledge".

mdsn969
03-10-2012, 00:56
And what evidence might you expect to find related to a broken tail light, or a failure to use a turn directional, or even speeding if the person driving does NOT appear to be drunk, or under the influence? And there is no open container, guns, drugs in open view?

http://flexyourrights.org/faq/74

In Wisconsin it doesn't matter, if you are carrying and are asked you have to respond in the affirmative.

The LEO has the right to temporarily take possession of your weapon during the stop...

mdsn969
03-10-2012, 01:00
The reason they are not the same is the constitution of the united states which outlines the RIGHTS of the people. So yes I'll be a "prick" and not allow a right to be morphed into a "privledge".

In Wisconsin, by exercising the right to be a prick you will lose your CCW License and if you carry it to far you will be arrested for a felony and lose your "right" to own a weapon and have it permanently confiscated.

It is just much easier and safer when stopped to simply tell them you are carrying and you have a CCW.

Don't be a prick and they will not be a prick...

Be a prick and pay he consequences...

Peace Warrior
03-10-2012, 01:28
Huggytree,

Around these parts THEY KNOW if you're CCW when they stop you, if they check beforehand. Personally, I do not mind as most of the LOCAL Cops here appreciate the fact, but some people do mind if they know beforehand. I understand where you're coming from on this one, but it is not a primary issue for me personally.

mdsn969
03-10-2012, 01:33
Huggytree,

Around these parts THEY KNOW if you're CCW when they stop you, if they check beforehand. Personally, I do not mind as most of the LOCAL Cops here appreciate the fact, but some people do mind if they know beforehand. I understand where you're coming from on this one, but it is not a primary issue for me personally.

In Wisconsin they don't know you are a CCW when they run your plates...

Bren
03-10-2012, 06:18
And what evidence might you expect to find related to a broken tail light, or a failure to use a turn directional, or even speeding if the person driving does NOT appear to be drunk, or under the influence? And there is no open container, guns, drugs in open view?

http://flexyourrights.org/faq/74

So your saying you as a officer would shoot to kill someone if they dont give you there lawfully owned weapon and endorsed by your state and your sheriff to legaly carry it?,Wow i would have to say cops like you are gonna cause some states to banckrupt faster then obahma


When you make up a new version of what a person said, changing the facts so their argument is easy to defeat, that is usually called a "straw man" argument. Not really valid. He told you correctly what the current law is and you responded with examples of where it would not allow a search. So? Nobody said it would. We all know you can't search for additional evidence of "a broken tail light, or a failure to use a turn directional, or even speeding" and you can't shoot people just for refusing to say whether they have a legal gun.

Looking over http://flexyourrights.org/faq/74, very briefly, it looked like good advice. That's probably why it's so different than the advice most GTers post.

Bren
03-10-2012, 06:24
The reason they are not the same is the constitution of the united states which outlines the RIGHTS of the people. So yes I'll be a "prick" and not allow a right to be morphed into a "privledge".

Yes, the constitution outlines the rights of the people.

And the U.S. Supreme Court and the entire judicial system, state and federal, believes that they are better able to figure out what the constitution means than you. They are right.

The police are trained based on what the judicial system believes the constitution means, not what you believe it means.

When you disagree with the police over that interpretation, the judicial system will decide how that works out for you.

Do you see where that's going to go?

hunter 111
03-10-2012, 07:33
If they ask me anything I answer. I have nothing to hide and I'm not breaking any laws.
What if they ask to search your vehicle ?

ca survivor
03-10-2012, 08:20
I love when they stop you and ask "do you know why I stop you?" NO do you? :rofl:

Bill Lumberg
03-10-2012, 08:34
Because being smart aleck always helps......

firedog03
03-10-2012, 08:51
You can either answer yes or no to the search of your vehicle. I ask almost everyone I stop if i can search, some say yes, some say no. Do I search everyone that says, yes, No I don't. But it does make it easier in court when asked, why I was asking for consent to search, I can respond that based on the fact that I ask almost everyone I stop if I can search their vehicle. That way I am not "profiling" any one person, race, age, sex or whatever the case may be.
flcracker70, you have the right to bear arms, and I am in no way denying that. What I am saying, is that a CCW permit IS a privilege. Now, regardless of whether or not you have a CCW permit, and you don't inform me, or any other officer, that you have a concealed weapon and it is found out later in the traffic stop, you will be going to jail. and the charge will be for carrying a concealed weapon. and again, you will have a bond, you will lose your gun, you will have your CCW seized, and you could possibly lose your RIGHT to ever bear arms again(depending on how many times you decided to be a prick and failed to notify LEO). So, if you feel so inclined to be a prick, by all means, go for it.

Here are a couple statues to look up
1--NC GS 14-269(a1)
2--NC GS 14-415.11(a)

I understand I am referring to NC laws, but I still think you should inform the officer if you have a firearm.

man.cave
03-10-2012, 09:44
Go ahead and say you dont have to answer that. Enjoy spending the entire traffic stop standing outside of your car and told not to move. Hostility is met by the same. Oh and a police officer can ask anything they please. Remember the first amendment that you all complain the police are trying to take away? they still have it as well. enjoy your tickets. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Youll be the first one to complain too when a cop asks that question you chose not to answer and he sees your firearm and draws his on you. Again you play stupid gamea you win stupid prizes.

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It is responses like this from cops that brings dislike and lack of character.

happyguy
03-10-2012, 09:51
What does one stand to gain by lying about something that one is legally entitled to do? What's the point?

:dunno:

Regards,
Happyguy :)

RussP
03-10-2012, 10:33
It is responses like this from cops that brings dislike and lack of character.Welcome to Glock Talk and Carry Issues, man.cave.

Yeah, madcitycop is sort of an in your face type of poster. Some, maybe lots of people, get all sensitive when they read his posts. But, aren't you a .45 kind of guy? You should be able to handle some ".mcc" recoil.

I do believe, though, he's a bit more reserved on the street, or at least he's told me that...:whistling:...until the circumstances dictate the need a less sensitive response.

As far as his character...he's on my shortlist of good guys, but then, who the **** am I, right?

RussP
03-10-2012, 10:39
I love when they stop you and ask "do you know why I stop you?" NO do you? :rofl:Because being smart aleck always helps......Bill, tell him the truth, please. :faint:

Attention span of a typical officer is so short that they forget why they stopped the person walking from their vehicle to the stopped vehicle. Hopefully, the drivers answer will shock their memory of events prior to that instant. :thumbsup:

DustyJacket
03-10-2012, 10:47
Reply "Because of the dead bodies in my trunk?". :)

After I viewed Massad Ayoob;s video on the subject, when I get stopped I hand the officer the card with my endorsement along with my drivers license, and say nothing unless asked.

Before that video, I got stopped and I informed the State Trooper that I had a CCW endorseent (it is attached to your drivers license record, so he'll know sooner or later), he asked if I was carrying, I replied yes, he asked where, and I told him.

You could tell he was sure what to do so he had me come back and sit in the passenger seat. That torture was worse than the $200 ticket. I am a big guy and shared the seat with his laptop computer that was on an arm sticking into me.

Glockworks
03-10-2012, 13:45
i saw an interview with a Local police chief here in WI(i think it was Appleton,WI)....anyways he said when his officers make a traffic stop the first question they ask is 'are you a CCW holder and are you armed'

if the reason i am talking with the police has nothing to do with my CCW (IE---speeding) i dont think they have any rights to ask me that question....and i dont have to answer either

how do you handle it? and would you feel compelled to answer such a question?

a policeman is just a person...a person who may be anti-gun.....a person who may play games with you over the issue....i feel its none of his business if it doesnt pertain to whatever the reason he's talking to me for.
When for example post Katrina question at my front door when I know they are rounding up firearms, well that is VERY different than a traffic stop. So my answer differs in regards to the scenario. Traffic stop, of course I tell them.

SGT278ACR
03-10-2012, 13:57
Hmm - I am going to guess that one or more of the officers who may have a bit more experience than you as an officer might disagree with this. How about this guy - a permit holder- anything for an officer to be concerned about? http://www.ohio.com/news/judge-sentences-ashford-thompson-to-death-for-killing-officer-1.194093

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2008/07/how-did-twinsburg-cop-killer-have-a-concealed-carry-license/

I definitely see your point. Of course with anything in life there is the occasional exception, as in the case you mentioned. Perhaps I should rephrase what I said to state like what is written in my quote below....

Having been a LEO with 10+ years experience in the past I can say this... any cop with common sense, generally, isn't worried about an armed person with a CCW permit...

Bruce M
03-10-2012, 15:30
SGT278ACR Thanks much - that sounds much better. I agree that in traffic stops there are some drivers that it may become quickly evident that there is ample evidence to suggest there is no reason to be alarmed or conduct any further inquiry and that there are probably alot of permit holders who quickly into a stop it is evident that further scrutiny or concern is not necessary.

man.cave
03-10-2012, 15:56
Welcome to Glock Talk and Carry Issues, man.cave.

Yeah, madcitycop is sort of an in your face type of poster. Some, maybe lots of people, get all sensitive when they read his posts. But, aren't you a .45 kind of guy? You should be able to handle some ".mcc" recoil.

I do believe, though, he's a bit more reserved on the street, or at least he's told me that...:whistling:...until the circumstances dictate the need a less sensitive response.

As far as his character...he's on my shortlist of good guys, but then, who the **** am I, right?

I do not know Madcitycop, nor do I really care. I do know several cops with his outlook. Many of them are friends, but we don't talk about cop stuff. I guess there are sore chords with everybody, cops are one of mine. And just incase anybody is wondering, i never been in trouble with the law any further than a few speeding tickets in my youth. I do believe in telling an officer that you have a ccw and are carrying or not. In my state, NC, it is required and linked to my tags.
As for gun preference, I like them all lol

Thanks for the welcome

RussP
03-10-2012, 17:00
It is responses like this from cops that brings dislike and lack of character.


I do not know Madcitycop,

nor do I really care.

I do know several cops with his outlook.

Many of them are friends, but

we don't talk about cop stuff.

I guess there are sore chords with everybody,

cops are one of mine.

And just incase anybody is wondering, i never been in trouble with the law any further than a few speeding tickets in my youth.
That is an interesting combination there...

Those cops who are your friends, those who don't talk cop stuff with you, they know how you feel about them, right?

If you've never been in trouble, what/who created your "sore chord"?

OldRotorHead
03-10-2012, 20:11
In North Carolina, you had better show your CC permit with your license and declare whether or not you are carrying because your carry permit is tied to your drivers license. If you don't do this, once the officer gets back from his mobile computer you will find yourself in deep poo. This is covered carefully and completely in the CCW class and on the "final exam". As others have already said, why would you even consider lying to a police officer?

iluv2viddyfilms
03-10-2012, 20:36
You gotta remember, CCW is still fairly new to Wisconsin, and a lot of cops may not have much experience in dealing with carriers. Just be straight with them.

Agreed. I'm not sure if Wisconsin is a mandatory CCW informer state, but get the law on the side of the CCW and represent them well.

mdsn969
03-11-2012, 00:43
Agreed. I'm not sure if Wisconsin is a mandatory CCW informer state, but get the law on the side of the CCW and represent them well.

It is not mandatory to inform unless asked then it is mandatory. In Wisconsin neither your DL nor plate is tied to your CCW...

madcitycop
03-11-2012, 12:06
It is responses like this from cops that brings dislike and lack of character.

You mean honest answers that are based in reality and case law? sorry but the side of the road is not the place to play mister nice guy.

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mdsn969
03-11-2012, 12:09
You mean honest answers that are based in reality and case law? sorry but the side of the road is not the place to play mister nice guy.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Hey mad we should have a beer...

madcitycop
03-11-2012, 12:13
Welcome to Glock Talk and Carry Issues, man.cave.

Yeah, madcitycop is sort of an in your face type of poster. Some, maybe lots of people, get all sensitive when they read his posts. But, aren't you a .45 kind of guy? You should be able to handle some ".mcc" recoil.

I do believe, though, he's a bit more reserved on the street, or at least he's told me that...:whistling:...until the circumstances dictate the need a less sensitive response.

As far as his character...he's on my shortlist of good guys, but then, who the **** am I, right?

I can neither confirm nor deny any of this :)

i will say though that a majority of the time i back up ny position with case law and legal holdings.

Policing is a no nonsense business and situations like the one suggested here should be red flags for cops. If its not you need to rexamine what youre doing for your sake and your families. And the general public needa to realize this isnt a game. The side of the road is not the place to play "excercise rights i THINK i have" you will never win that game because every cop every day is playing the stay alive game. I am a huge supporter of citizens rights and have written masters level papers thay id be glad to share with those i often offend. However in the street practitioner role there is a time and a place to have these type of encounters and on a traffic stop is not it. Officer safety should always win.

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Misty02
03-11-2012, 13:11
I can neither confirm nor deny any of this :)

i will say though that a majority of the time i back up ny position with case law and legal holdings.

Policing is a no nonsense business and situations like the one suggested here should be red flags for cops. If its not you need to rexamine what youre doing for your sake and your families. And the general public needa to realize this isnt a game. The side of the road is not the place to play "excercise rights i THINK i have" you will never win that game because every cop every day is playing the stay alive game. I am a huge supporter of citizens rights and have written masters level papers thay id be glad to share with those i often offend. However in the street practitioner role there is a time and a place to have these type of encounters and on a traffic stop is not it. Officer safety should always win.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

If youíre willing to share it with someone you have not offended yet, I would be interested in reading it. Or we can arrange it so you get to offend me (I may have to fake it) and then I can claim the offer. :supergrin:

.

Bill Lumberg
03-11-2012, 14:58
This. I can neither confirm nor deny any of this :)

i will say though that a majority of the time i back up ny position with case law and legal holdings.

Policing is a no nonsense business and situations like the one suggested here should be red flags for cops. If its not you need to rexamine what youre doing for your sake and your families. And the general public needa to realize this isnt a game. The side of the road is not the place to play "excercise rights i THINK i have" you will never win that game because every cop every day is playing the stay alive game. I am a huge supporter of citizens rights and have written masters level papers thay id be glad to share with those i often offend. However in the street practitioner role there is a time and a place to have these type of encounters and on a traffic stop is not it. Officer safety should always win.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

Bren
03-11-2012, 16:03
I can neither confirm nor deny any of this :)

i will say though that a majority of the time i back up ny position with case law and legal holdings.

Policing is a no nonsense business and situations like the one suggested here should be red flags for cops. If its not you need to rexamine what youre doing for your sake and your families. And the general public needa to realize this isnt a game. The side of the road is not the place to play "excercise rights i THINK i have" you will never win that game because every cop every day is playing the stay alive game. I am a huge supporter of citizens rights and have written masters level papers thay id be glad to share with those i often offend. However in the street practitioner role there is a time and a place to have these type of encounters and on a traffic stop is not it. Officer safety should always win.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

That about says it all.

I've tried to make the point in many threads (Inidiana's law about using deadly force to resist arrest, for example) that the side of the road is not the place for a legal debate. In fact, I recall being told ore than once to never let a suspect draw you into an argument/discussion about that kind of theng. There is no outcome other than "private citizen loses." Saying, I don't consent to a search" is one thing, but saying "I'm not going to tell you if I have a gun" is another - and one that would make any cop think "I'm dealing with a nutcase, who is armed."

str8tshooter
03-11-2012, 18:01
In Texas, if a police officer asks you, you answer honestly. Yes or no. Not hard at all.

:cool:

In Texas, you are required to inform LEO if you are armed. It's the law!!! If you are a CHL, and are stopped, IMO only, you should inform the LEO that you are a CHL holder, and whether or not your are armed. IMO, the stop will go a lot easier, if you inform them if you are armed or not. They are only trying to go home at the end of their shift, just like you, and if you aren't a criminal, then it shouldn't matter. Just my .02 cents.
Str8tshooter

WMDoug
03-12-2012, 12:52
I was pulled over on the freeway at about 1:00 am by a Michigan State Trooper. He approached the passenger side of the car where my wife was sitting. She is nice to look at and that might have helped. He asked her for the vehicle registration and insurance and asked me for my driver's license. I told him I have a CPL and he said "That's fine." Two minutes later he was back, gave me all my vehicle paperwork and told me my license plate bulb was burned out and that I was traveling 72 mph. No ticket, no worries.

So I ask you, why would I have wanted to turn that into a 90 minute piece of drama?

Bren
03-12-2012, 13:24
I love when they stop you and ask "do you know why I stop you?" NO do you? :rofl:

I encourage you to try that response in real life.:upeyes:

I'll give you a hint: they know why they stopped you, it's more of a test, than a question. You have money riding on the answer.

Bren
03-12-2012, 13:26
I was pulled over on the freeway at about 1:00 am by a Michigan State Trooper. He approached the passenger side of the car where my wife was sitting. She is nice to look at and that might have helped. He asked her for the vehicle registration and insurance and asked me for my driver's license. I told him I have a CPL and he said "That's fine." Two minutes later he was back, gave me all my vehicle paperwork and told me my license plate bulb was burned out and that I was traveling 72 mph. No ticket, no worries.

So I ask you, why would I have wanted to turn that into a 90 minute piece of drama?

I don't think you're a REAL Glocktalker. Any real GTer would not hesitate to either create problems for himself by letting his mouth override his brain, or to claim he did/would on the internet.

Glockdude1
03-12-2012, 13:42
I encourage you to try that response in real life.:upeyes:

I'll give you a hint: they know why they stopped you, it's more of a test, than a question. You have money riding on the answer.

Cop: You know why I pulled you over?

Fletcher: Depends on how long you were following me!

Cop: Why don't we just take it from the top?

Fletcher: Here goes: I sped. I followed too closely. I ran a stop sign. I almost hit a Chevy. I sped some more. I failed to yield at a crosswalk. I changed lanes at the intersection. I changed lanes without signaling while running a red light and *speeding*!

Cop: Is that all?

Fletcher: No... I have unpaid parking tickets.......

:supergrin:

Steelhawk
03-12-2012, 13:50
It hasn't happened to me yet, but if pulled over I would hand him my permit along with my Driver's License. There is no law requiring you to inform, but he will find out about the permit when he runs my DL, so why wait.

Now, in general conversation with LEOs while armed, which happens frequently, I never say anything.

man.cave
03-12-2012, 14:37
You mean honest answers that are based in reality and case law? sorry but the side of the road is not the place to play mister nice guy.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match, and sorry if I made rash judgments, but it is the attitude of Cops are Gods and the general public are just peasants that bothers me. Like I posted earlier, I agree that one should present information to the officer about ones ID, Car info, and concealed weapon. Believe me, I can handle the truth, and it isn't pretty, I am so glad that just about anybody can record via phone the junk that cops have gotten away with for years, just working with that attitude. If you don't want to be a cop then don't be a cop, pretty simple. I don't live in or near any big city and the only thing cops do around here is look for reasons to give traffic tickets.

The side of the road may not be the place to play nice guy, but no reason to play *****hole either.

My safety is dependent on ME. All the above is just an opinion, right!! :faint:

man.cave
03-12-2012, 15:35
That is an interesting combination there...

Those cops who are your friends, those who don't talk cop stuff with you, they know how you feel about them, right?

If you've never been in trouble, what/who created your "sore chord"?

Yeah, because they agree with me. As for the friend part, 2 of them are the husbands of my wife's friends, so not real hang out buddies. As for me. I once had 6 cops pull in behind me at a fast food joint, and circle my white jeep with me and my girlfriend at the time. I was 22 in college. There had been a murder up the road I didn't know about, and they where looking for somebody in a white jeep, who was in there fifties. Now, I understand being pulled over and asked a few questions, but I was surrounded by these cops, at gun point being told not to move or blah blah blah, my girlfried was crying, six guns pointed on the 2 of us. I was able to convince them to let me show my ID which had fallen between the seats. They left without even a sorry. How many white jeeps are there in the US? Or how about the cops that speed 80+ mph in a 55 to a Burger King to eat breakfast, I know I was going to burger king and watched them walk in. or Putting on flashers at a 4 way stop just to get through to a hardware store to buy bird seed. I point blank asked them why the did that one. need I continue because I can. :steamed: Now all of these things happened in different states. I know one area in WV where they hire more cops just to ticket out of state folks for driving 5 over. My wife got a ticket in that section for 5mph over. My buddy got a ticket for 2mph, I lie not, I saw the ticket and went to court with him. It was thrown out, but a wasted day. Is there good cops? Yes are there High school bullies that found a way to keep being high school bullies Yes. The answer should be no. As for New York or other big cities, I think there is a different need. But the police are suppose to offer protection and freedom, not just one.

RussP
03-12-2012, 16:17
Yeah, because they agree with me. As for the friend part, 2 of them are the husbands of my wife's friends, so not real hang out buddies. As for me. I once had 6 cops pull in behind me at a fast food joint, and circle my white jeep with me and my girlfriend at the time. I was 22 in college. There had been a murder up the road I didn't know about, and they where looking for somebody in a white jeep, who was in there fifties. Now, I understand being pulled over and asked a few questions, but I was surrounded by these cops, at gun point being told not to move or blah blah blah, my girlfried was crying, six guns pointed on the 2 of us. I was able to convince them to let me show my ID which had fallen between the seats. They left without even a sorry. How many white jeeps are there in the US? Or how about the cops that speed 80+ mph in a 55 to a Burger King to eat breakfast, I know I was going to burger king and watched them walk in. or Putting on flashers at a 4 way stop just to get through to a hardware store to buy bird seed. I point blank asked them why the did that one. need I continue because I can. :steamed: Now all of these things happened in different states. I know one area in WV where they hire more cops just to ticket out of state folks for driving 5 over. My wife got a ticket in that section for 5mph over. My buddy got a ticket for 2mph, I lie not, I saw the ticket and went to court with him. It was thrown out, but a wasted day. Is there good cops? Yes are there High school bullies that found a way to keep being high school bullies Yes. The answer should be no. As for New York or other big cities, I think there is a different need. But the police are suppose to offer protection and freedom, not just one.Thank you...

Peace Warrior
03-13-2012, 09:38
Well, 'ere ya go y'all lemme tell ya a question hear?

Alright, we was out cooning one night, and wouldn't ya know it, as soon as I gets back on SR 19, 'ere comes a bunch of blue lights filling up my mirror. It were my right side mirror as that's the only one I got left on my pick-up. Well, wouldn't ya know it, its one of dem dere Florida State Trooper fellows! Nice as could be, little handy with the flashlight in the eyes, but we didn't take no offense. I mean not with my dome light being burned out and all.

Asks us what we were doing? I said we was cooning, but now we going to wal-mart for some more bullets. He says for me to be more careful about stops signs. I says I never shot one, honest sir. He's says no, for me to more careful of obeying stop signs. I asks what stop sign. He says the one right there on the Nfs road I just turned off of and then going north on 19. I says there ain't no stop signs there, I just took that one last week to hang on the wall of my man cave.

That 'dere Florida State Trooper was real respectful of me and my CCW. He says he didn't blame me for wanting to protect myself while away from home and all. He was nice enough to let my brother take procession, or some word like that, of my CCW pistol before he arrested me for stealing property.

Yup, LEOs know how to be respectful to CCW'ers for sure.

My question: I know I should have told him about my CCW, but should I have told him about the stop sign? :dunno: If I hadn't said anything, I wouldn't had missed all those weekend hunting trips by having to go to court and then installing new stop signs on Nfs roads as service to the community.

RussP
03-13-2012, 10:15
Well, 'ere ya go y'all lemme tell ya a question hear?

Alright, we was out cooning one night, and wouldn't ya know it, as soon as I gets back on SR 19, 'ere comes a bunch of blue lights filling up my mirror. It were my right side mirror as that's the only one I got left on my pick-up. Well, wouldn't ya know it, its one of dem dere Florida State Trooper fellows! Nice as could be, little handy with the flashlight in the eyes, but we didn't take no offense. I mean not with my dome light being burned out and all.

Asks us what we were doing? I said we was cooning, but now we going to wal-mart for some more bullets. He says for me to be more careful about stops signs. I says I never shot one, honest sir. He's says no, for me to more careful of obeying stop signs. I asks what stop sign. He says the one right there on the Nfs road I just turned off of and then going north on 19. I says there ain't no stop signs there, I just took that one last week to hang on the wall of my man cave.

That 'dere Florida State Trooper was real respectful of me and my CCW. He says he didn't blame me for wanting to protect myself while away from home and all. He was nice enough to let my brother take procession, or some word like that, of my CCW pistol before he arrested me for stealing property.

Yup, LEOs know how to be respectful to CCW'ers for sure.

My question: I know I should have told him about my CCW, but should I have told him about the stop sign? :dunno: If I hadn't said anything, I wouldn't had missed all those weekend hunting trips by having to go to court and then installing new stop signs on Nfs roads as service to the community.Now that is funny...added it to my Blog!!