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RWBlue
03-04-2012, 09:35
Has anyone compiled the necessary financial information to make a chart showing the return on an investment in full auto firearms?

i.e. Assuming I bought an M60 pre-86, how would the rate of return compare to buying the equivalent in UZIs or M16s or even the S&P 500?

chemcmndr
03-04-2012, 13:29
I haven't seen anyone showing the math on the ROI on full autos, namely because it's, in my mind, a semi-volatile market. New legislation can influence the price one way or another. I know that there was a website that had shown the high, low, and average selling price for several different machine guns over the last 15 years or so. It wouldn't be hard to figure what a rough ROI would be based off of that information.

mboylan
03-04-2012, 21:50
You can check out the curves at:
http://www.machinegunpriceguide.com/

You really missed the boat on big appreciation. Trusts became seriously accepted as an alternative to a CLEO approval at around 2000. That made so many buyers more eligible and kicked the prices up.

It looks like many machine guns have plateaued out and are at best inflation hedges. There's only so much a buyer is willing and able to pay.

ARs went down and came back up. There are certain guns that will always demand a premium, like some pre-68s and Colt M16s.

RWBlue
03-04-2012, 22:22
It looks like they are performing like bonds. They are barely keeping up with the cost of living increases. But unlike government backed bonds, these are the inverse. If the gov. really gets messes up.....

ScottieG59
03-11-2012, 23:21
To be an investment, you should not attach an emotional value to the items. I have investments in some things I would never sell. The appreciation in value means more to my insurance costs as well as security measures I have to implement. I used to race in the SCCA with a guy who had an all original AC Cobra. It was still extremely fast and competitive. Eventually, it was just worth too much to continue racing. Also, the owner had the car for many years and selling it was not an option. I have a old muscle car that people keep offering to buy and I do not care about the value. I bought it new many many years ago and will always keep it.

I am the same with my guns, including the one in my safes that only come out to be cleaned. I have sold some in the past, but no more. The value means nothing to me at all, except for sentimental value. A couple were inherited when my father passed away. One of my prized firearms is the first pellet gun I ever owned; financially, it is not worth anything.

One other consideration when dealing with specialized investments such as fully automatic weapons is that the market is not open. You should know something about a venture before you jump into it and you should consider all the risks and costs involved. I looked at machine guns in the 1970s and it did not seem to present much value then. Even then, the costs were a bit high for civilians, especially at the amount of money I had.

I think the smartest guys in business are those who process the transactions and charge their fee no matter which way things go. Of course, before you can broker deals, you have to know something about the business and be recognized in your industry.


Out there in fly-over country...

RWBlue
03-12-2012, 11:50
I think the smartest guys in business are those who process the transactions and charge their fee no matter which way things go. Of course, before you can broker deals, you have to know something about the business and be recognized in your industry. .

I think that can be said about most investments whether they are land, stocks, bonds, guns, machine guns......

PlasticGuy
03-12-2012, 16:24
Machine guns are a good preservation of wealth. They have not gone down in value in a long time. That said, I don't know that the word "investment" is correct. Typically I like my investments to increase in value. Most machine gun purchases do not. They keep pace with inflation, or maybe a little better. That could be a smart move if you are near retirement and want to make sure you don't lose money. Not so much if you're young and looking 40 years ahead.

1gewehr
03-13-2012, 10:21
How much do you trust congress? Your investment in machine guns can be wiped out overnight by some sleazy congresscritter attaching a rider to a popular bill. That's how we got the Hughes amendment that outlawed new machine guns in 1986 and made a $250 MAC worth $4000. Raising the NFA tax to $10,000, prohibiting transfers, or any of a hundred other ideas would drop the sales value overnight.

RWBlue
03-13-2012, 12:41
How much do you trust congress? Your investment in machine guns can be wiped out overnight by some sleazy congresscritter attaching a rider to a popular bill. That's how we got the Hughes amendment that outlawed new machine guns in 1986 and made a $250 MAC worth $4000. Raising the NFA tax to $10,000, prohibiting transfers, or any of a hundred other ideas would drop the sales value overnight.

Very true and I have made that argument in the past.

I guess the question could be asked for my 401K and Roth IRA. Do I trust my Congress people not to put a heavy tax on those accounts? It would be a very nice way to help balance the budget one year, but would generally piss off the common people and the rich.

Where as putting a heavy transfer tax on machine guns would just piss off a few, and not get much taxes. It would be a political move to appease the anti-gun movement which is dying off (but not dead).

Jon_R
03-14-2012, 08:02
How much do you trust congress? Your investment in machine guns can be wiped out overnight by some sleazy congresscritter attaching a rider to a popular bill. That's how we got the Hughes amendment that outlawed new machine guns in 1986 and made a $250 MAC worth $4000. Raising the NFA tax to $10,000, prohibiting transfers, or any of a hundred other ideas would drop the sales value overnight.

What if they went the other way and got rid of the silly arbitrary 1986 clause. Then your FA AR would be worth about the same as a SA AR. I personally would like to see that happen but ironically there are many gun owners that would suffer if that happened when there toys / investments plummet in value. All supply and demand.

fuzzy03cls
03-15-2012, 13:37
Investment? Not any longer. Missed the boat on that.