Michigans CC/Open Carry Law --Interesting loophole [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Michigans CC/Open Carry Law --Interesting loophole


emtp2rn
03-04-2012, 12:58
Backstory:

Michigan does not have a law against open carry, so open carry is legal in Michigan except in designated Pistol Free Zones, unless the person has a concealed weapons license.

Michigan's Pistol Free zones were declared in law 70 years ago when the first concealed weapons permit were issued, under a may issue environment.

Fast forward to Michigan becoming shall issue, and the new "Concealed Pistol License" with specification of pistol free zones unless you are in an exempt status (leo, judge, private investigator).

A loophole was found you cannot conceal carry in any of the pistol free zones, but if you have a CPL you can open carry in the pistol free zones.

Turns out a school district found out about this the hard way and Michigan State Police had to educate everyone.

http://grnorth.wzzm13.com/news/news/67129-msp-law-allows-some-carry-guns-schools

xmanhockey7
03-04-2012, 14:23
This have been known for awhile. Most states do not have this "loophole" like we do. For those who are not familiar with the statues relating to this check out "MSP legal update 86" it'll come right up in a google search.

This part only applies to those who DO NOT have a CPL. People with a CPL are completely exempt and this statue essentially has nothing to do with them. And subsection "h" includes places like Walmart that sell alcohol even though it's not consumed on premises. Also this statue not only applies to open carry. If you are going to the range and stop by Walmart to pick up some ammo you're breaking the law.
Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
(b) A church or other house of religious worship.
(c) A court.
(d) A theatre.
(e) A sports arena.
(f) A day care center.
(g) A hospital.
(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
(b) A peace officer.
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
(d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

This list applies only to people who have a CPL and are carrying concealed. They must be carrying a concealed pistol to violate this.
28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation; penalties.
Sec. 5o. (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:
(a) A school or school property except that a parent or legal guardian of a student of the school is not precluded from carrying a concealed pistol while in a vehicle on school property, if he or she is dropping the student off at the school or picking up the child from the school. As used in this section, "school" and "school property" mean those terms as defined in section 237a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.237a.
(b) A public or private child care center or day care center, public or private child caring institution, or public or private child placing agency.
(c) A sports arena or stadium.
(d) A bar or tavern licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, where the primary source of income of the business is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass and consumed on the premises. This subdivision does not apply to an owner or employee of the business. The Michigan liquor control commission shall develop and make available to holders of licenses under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, an appropriate sign stating that "This establishment prohibits patrons from carrying concealed weapons". The owner or operator of an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, may, but is not required to, post the sign developed under this subdivision. A record made available by an establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998, 1998 PA 58, MCL 436.1101 to 436.2303, necessary to enforce this subdivision is exempt from disclosure under the freedom of information act, 1976 PA 442, MCL 15.231 to 15.246.
(e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
(f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals or that has a sign above each public entrance stating in letters not less than 1-inch high a seating capacity of 2,500 or more individuals.
(g) A hospital.
(h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university.

(2) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under
section 12a(1)(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol in violation of R 432.1212 or a successor rule of the Michigan administrative code promulgated under the Michigan gaming control and revenue act, 1996 IL 1, MCL 432.201 to 432.226.
(3) As used in subsection (1), "premises" does not include parking areas of the places identified under subsection (1).

This statue applies to weapons on a school premises. It exempts CPL holders just like 750.234d.
750.237a Individuals engaging in proscribed conduct; violation; penalties; definitions.
(4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

(5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:
(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

steveksux
03-04-2012, 14:37
There's something to that effect on the MSP website, one of their legal update bulletins. #86 I believe...

That said, depending on where you are, the likelihood of police being aware of it varies greatly.

Was talking to a cop at the Auto Show this year, and they were told about that at role call, apparently open carriers were relying on this last year for the show, and wanted the cops to be aware and not arrest them unnecessarily. He said it wasn't mentioned this year, and so assumed they found a way around the loophole this year.

I saw on the tickets it was stated no weapons allowed, so I'm assuming auto show folks (private enterprise) got around it since they notified folks that they did not wish people to carry, rented property (COBO)=private property, and owners can prohibit carry.

Randy

cadillacguns
03-05-2012, 10:30
Then states that have reprocity agreements with Michigan, their citizens who have permits would be complient.

Rustin
03-05-2012, 10:38
Law abiding citizens bringing guns into schools and nobody's getting shot? I Wonder what the anti's think about this?

xmanhockey7
03-05-2012, 12:16
Then states that have reprocity agreements with Michigan, their citizens who have permits would be complient.

Michigan recognizes all resident permits for concealed carry. So yes someone who is visiting could do this too except for schools. Anytime they come within 1,000 feet of a school that person is violating federal law. Also if someone does not have a permit from their home state they can open carry in Michigan in all the places listed under 750.234d (statue does not require a resident permit). Only thing that sucks for them is they have to transport it in the trunk, in a case designed for a firearm.