5 Minute AR "Kit" < $500 [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : 5 Minute AR "Kit" < $500


PEC-Memphis
03-07-2012, 12:03
Assemble a lightweight 5.56 AR in < 5 minutes (two pins) for less than $500 (doesn't include sights, magazine, x-fer, shipping).

Upper Complete: $373

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/513528/dpms-ar-15-oracle-a3-flat-top-upper-assembly-556x45mm-nato-1-in-9-twist-16-light-contour-barrel-chrome-moly-matte-with-glacierguard-handguard-single-rail-gas-block-flash-hider

Lower Complete: $100.

http://newfrontierarmory.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=245_285&products_id=34089

Nobody is going to mistake this for an LMT or LaRue, but for $500?

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 13:11
DPMS upper, polymer lower.... Yep, I think that checks just about every personal "No thank you" box for me.

whitebread
03-07-2012, 13:35
I would rather pony up $150 extra and get:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-hammer-forged-m4a1-rifle-kit.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html

faawrenchbndr
03-07-2012, 13:37
'bread beat me to it,.........MUCH better decision!

alexanderg23
03-07-2012, 13:37
I've done a Delton kit for $470 and a Palmettostate armory lower for $49(blackfriday/4th July sale) before.
So <550 to your door.

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 13:37
I would rather pony up $150 extra and get:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-hammer-forged-m4a1-rifle-kit.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html

'bread beat me to it,.........MUCH better decision!

Abso-damn-lutely.

PSA may not be on the same level as BCM, LMT, Colt, Noveske,etc.... but it's MILES ahead of DPMS.

M&P Shooter
03-07-2012, 15:07
To the OP if you didn't place a order yet don't. You would be much better off spending a little more money and going with a anodized aluminum lower from PSA with one of their complete lower parts kit which comes with Magpul furniture. That's $80 for the stripped lower and $140 for a complete quality complete lower with Magpul furniture. You can get a Spikes upper for $500 which has a chromed lined 1X7 twist barrel

For $720 you can have a quality AR 15:wavey:
http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/moe-lower-build-kit.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSTU5025MOE&name=Spikes+Tactical+16%22+M4+5.56%2f.223+Upper+Receiver&groupid=55

bullittmcqueen
03-07-2012, 15:45
When will people learn? It comes up over and over.

DirectDrive
03-07-2012, 15:48
DPMS upper, polymer lower.... Yep, I think that checks just about every personal "No thank you" box for me.
Yep, all my No Thank You bells and whistles suddenly went off.

Friends don't let friends drive plastic lowers.

Too many other excellent, low cost solutions available.

FatBoy
03-07-2012, 15:56
Yep, all my No Thank You bells and whistles suddenly went off.

Friends don't let friends drive plastic lowers.

Too many other excellent, low cost solutions available.

I like my Cav-Arms lower. Just Say'in.

Patriot III
03-07-2012, 16:09
I believe the problem is lack of research. :whistling:

bmoore
03-07-2012, 16:36
Im a big fan of Palmetto. My mid length lightweight rifle kit was 515 to my door, 130 out the door for an Aero precision lower and 55 bucks for a Magpul BUIS. 700 total. I wasnt trying to buy the cheapest crap I could find, I think they make a pretty solid product.

MadMonkey
03-07-2012, 16:53
Just FYI, the New Frontier Armory polymer lowers were designed by guys who didn't like the PlumCrazy lowers. There are videos of torture tests and such scattered around.

Long-term reliability remains to be seen, obviously. I'm thinking about ordering a pair for the heck of it.

Although yes, polymer has no place in the gun world. What is this, a Glock forum or something? :whistling:

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 16:55
Just FYI, the New Frontier Armory polymer lowers were designed by guys who didn't like the PlumCrazy lowers. There are videos of torture tests and such scattered around.

Long-term reliability remains to be seen, obviously. I'm thinking about ordering a pair for the heck of it.

Although yes, polymer has no place in the gun world. What is this, a Glock forum or something? :whistling:

Polymer definitely has a place in the gun world - just not in an AR-15 receiver.

MadMonkey
03-07-2012, 17:06
Polymer definitely has a place in the gun world - just not in an AR-15 receiver.

Why is that?

M&P Shooter
03-07-2012, 17:08
Why is that?
Big difference in weapon abuse from a 9mm through 10mm to 5.56/.223

MadMonkey
03-07-2012, 17:17
Big difference in weapon abuse from a 9mm through 10mm to 5.56/.223

Any proof that it won't work?

CAcop
03-07-2012, 17:19
Big difference in weapon abuse from a 9mm through 10mm to 5.56/.223

You know there are polymer rifles out there right?

As long as you know what you are getting and why who cares about quality.

M&P Shooter
03-07-2012, 17:48
Any proof that it won't work?
I'll pass for now and if I find out later I'm wrong I will try a polymer lower, maybe:wavey:

jrs93accord
03-07-2012, 17:54
$659 gets you the assembled upper, complete lower, FA BCG, CH, and detachable carrying handle to assemble this DS Arms ZM4.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/006-2.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/005-4.jpg

faawrenchbndr
03-07-2012, 18:18
Why is that?


Uh,......Cavalry Arms, & Bushmaster Carbon series are a
few great examples of failed polymer AR15 designs!

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 20:07
Why is that?

Big difference in weapon abuse from a 9mm through 10mm to 5.56/.223

You can make a rifle from polymer - IF it's designed around it in the first place. If you take a design originally designed to be made from aluminum, and make it from a weaker material, there WILL be problems.

Any proof that it won't work?

Have you not seen all the failed polymer 1911 frames and AR receivers out there?

You know there are polymer rifles out there right?

As long as you know what you are getting and why who cares about quality.

Again, polymer is great when the design has that material in mind. Replacing steel, aluminum, etc with polymer is a good way to break something.

frankmako
03-07-2012, 20:19
i done a build with a cav arms lower and different name upper parts. it turned out to be a good rifle. shoot and don't give any problems. it shoots just as good as my colt's. so don't knock plastic/poly lowers untill you tried one and/or shot one.

humanguerrilla
03-07-2012, 21:19
DPMS upper, polymer lower.... Yep, I think that checks just about every personal "No thank you" box for me.

+ "Composite fire control system"
alarms sound

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 21:23
i done a build with a cav arms lower and different name upper parts. it turned out to be a good rifle. shoot and don't give any problems. it shoots just as good as my colt's. so don't knock plastic/poly lowers untill you tried one and/or shot one.

Then you got a good one. Many of them are not, and the failure/problem rate is drastically higher than it is in aluminum lowers...

mingaa
03-07-2012, 21:26
Just FYI, the New Frontier Armory polymer lowers were designed by guys who didn't like the PlumCrazy lowers. There are videos of torture tests and such scattered around.

Long-term reliability remains to be seen, obviously. I'm thinking about ordering a pair for the heck of it.

Although yes, polymer has no place in the gun world. What is this, a Glock forum or something? :whistling:

HAR!!!!:tongueout:

faawrenchbndr
03-07-2012, 21:27
i done a build with a cav arms lower and different name upper parts. it turned out to be a good rifle. shoot and don't give any problems. it shoots just as good as my colt's. so don't knock plastic/poly lowers untill you tried one and/or shot one.


Been there, done that! Cav Arms stock assy split from the butt to the grip.
Rendered the weapon useless! With a standard
AR15 lower, the butt stock could have been replaced in a matter of minutes,
and get the shooter back in the fight.

If ya treat a plastic AR like a toy, I'm sure it will be ok.
Take a spill with it and it WILL be a worthless piece of plastic!

And the Bushmaster Carbon's quality was so poor, I did
not have the guts to shoot that piece of crap. I've seen
higher quality airsoft guns than the Carbon!

Cole125
03-07-2012, 22:19
DPMS upper, polymer lower.... Yep, I think that checks just about every personal "No thank you" box for me.

:rofl: Same here.

I guess if your on a budget its better than no rifle.

WoodenPlank
03-07-2012, 22:32
:rofl: Same here.

I guess if your on a budget its better than no rifle.

Until bad luck catches up with you, and you're left with NO rifle after a major parts/receiver failure.

PEC-Memphis
03-08-2012, 09:37
Been there, done that! Cav Arms stock assy split from the butt to the grip.
Rendered the weapon useless! With a standard
AR15 lower, the butt stock could have been replaced in a matter of minutes, and get the shooter back in the fight.

The New Frontier lower is threaded for the mil spec buffer tube. The complete lower includes a buffer tube & collapsible stock which is replaceable (and can be used on a conventional forged lower).

If ya treat a plastic AR like a toy, I'm sure it will be ok. Take a spill with it and it WILL be a worthless piece of plastic!

I know that this the the manufacturer's advertizing, but take a look at part three of their "torture test" (Youtube). It gets thrown several times, run over by a truck, stomped on, used as a ladder, etc. Unless they are completely being deceptive, it wasn't treated like a toy.

And the Bushmaster Carbon's quality was so poor, I did not have the guts to shoot that piece of crap. I've seen higher quality airsoft guns than the Carbon!

So no real experience? Although I have read about problems with the Bushmaster Carbon. But I they were with the upper, not the lower. Some of them have broken where the barrel screws into the upper receiver and worn feed ramps - no small "issue". The most common complaints (that I've read) are no dust cover, no forward assist and problems mounting optics. All related to the upper.

Doomsday-Prepper
03-08-2012, 09:42
to eatch his own i guess..good find for low budget buyers who arent AR Gurus.

just sayin.

PEC-Memphis
03-08-2012, 09:44
Although yes, polymer has no place in the gun world. What is this, a Glock forum or something? :whistling:

I've seen Glock frames and slides fail, and yet people still buy them and swear by them.

<---- (Gen 2 with about 15k through it. + 1000's of dry firing)

Long-term reliability remains to be seen, obviously. I'm thinking about ordering a pair for the heck of it.

Well maybe just one for me. If a stock, buffer tube, buffer and spring are ~$50 - the most you could lose would be ~$50. (Other than body parts ?)

Restless28
03-08-2012, 10:21
If you only have $500 to spend on a rifle, buy a damn WASR, or spend a little bit more get a good mid-tier AR.

M&P Shooter
03-08-2012, 10:40
If you only have $500 to spend on a rifle, buy a damn WASR, or spend a little bit more get a good mid-tier AR.
I would never buy a WASR or $500 AR. Best advise is to put $500 away and pretend you never had it until you save up another $300 and build a good rifle. Spend once and never sell:wavey:

MadMonkey
03-08-2012, 12:44
If you only have $500 to spend on a rifle, buy a damn WASR, or spend a little bit more get a good mid-tier AR.

Why do you assume it's about money? I'm perfectly able to buy a top-tier AR and will soon make a decision on a new upper-range one. I want a pair of these to evaluate though... one for testing and abuse, and one for an extremely cheap and lightweight build. If they work well, they'll make excellent range toys for friends and family and a great entry-level AR for people who don't want to blow big bucks or build their own.

Guess I'm just tired of snobbery...

M&P Shooter
03-08-2012, 12:52
Guess I'm just tired of snobbery...
Fine you can not have any of my fancy tea and you get no crapes:tongueout:

ArmoryDoc
03-08-2012, 12:56
Sometimes I think gun owners would argue that Herpes was good just because they screwed up and got it.

WoodenPlank
03-08-2012, 13:10
I would never buy a WASR or $500 AR. Best advise is to put $500 away and pretend you never had it until you save up another $300 and build a good rifle. Spend once and never sell:wavey:

Bingo.

Guess I'm just tired of snobbery...

It's not always snobbery - some of us see an untested product that follows in the footsteps of failed products, and are willing to call it out as such. When you can get stripped, forged aluminum lowers for $50 in a semi-regular basis, why buy a plastic one?

Sometimes I think gun owners would argue that Herpes was good just because they screwed up and got it.

Yeah, they would.

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 13:49
.....So no real experience? ......


You don't read so good, huh?! :dunno:

cyphertext
03-08-2012, 13:54
When you can get stripped, forged aluminum lowers for $50 in a semi-regular basis, why buy a plastic one?

Aren't these $99 for a complete lower? I've never tried one, but I would consider one possibly with a dedicated .22lr upper. My son's M&P 15-22 is polymer and it works very well.

WoodenPlank
03-08-2012, 13:57
Aren't these $99 for a complete lower? I've never tried one, but I would consider one possibly with a dedicated .22lr upper. My son's M&P 15-22 is polymer and it works very well.

There's a big difference between a dedicated .22 gun and 5.56. A stripped aluminum receiver for $50 also makes it easy to build a complete lower for around $150. That extra $50 over the complete polymer lower gets you significantly better quality and durability.

cyphertext
03-08-2012, 14:20
There's a big difference between a dedicated .22 gun and 5.56. A stripped aluminum receiver for $50 also makes it easy to build a complete lower for around $150. That extra $50 over the complete polymer lower gets you significantly better quality and durability.

Don't disagree with you. I'll let someone else be the guinea pig w/ 5.56. Like I said, I would possibly consider for a .22lr. And this is assuming that it is lighter than an aluminum lower...cheap, lightweight kids rifle is what I was thinking.

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 14:39
Aren't these $99 for a complete lower? I've never tried one, but I would consider one possibly with a dedicated .22lr upper. My son's M&P 15-22 is polymer and it works very well.


An ffl I know bout three Plum Crazy lowers, complete with
5 position stocks for $129 each. They look ok, but I will
never try one!

MadMonkey
03-08-2012, 15:11
It's not always snobbery - some of us see an untested product that follows in the footsteps of failed products, and are willing to call it out as such. When you can get stripped, forged aluminum lowers for $50 in a semi-regular basis, why buy a plastic one?

I've already got three of those $50 lowers, one built and two waiting for the rest of their parts. I'm interested in trying polymer lowers for myself rather than following a bandwagon of people who haven't touched them.

M&P Shooter
03-08-2012, 16:12
There's a big difference between a dedicated .22 gun and 5.56. A stripped aluminum receiver for $50 also makes it easy to build a complete lower for around $150. That extra $50 over the complete polymer lower gets you significantly better quality and durability.
Very true, I bought a stripped PSA lower and a PSA MOE complete LPK in OD. I built a complete PSA lower with OD Magpul furniture for $240 plus shipping. I got the stripped lower from a PA forum member NIB for $80

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/moe-lower-build-kit.html

I ordered a BCM 16" upper minus BCG,CH and handguard for $399 which I prefer to chose my own BCG & CH and a $30 Magpul OD handguard. So for $825 I built a 16" AR that's a complete PSA lower with a BCM upper with DD BCG & BCM CH with all OD Magpul furniture.

I am trying to show 1st time AR buyers that you can build a top notch AR for under $900 very easily. Spikes makes a very good complete upper also and only runs $500 which comes with BCG & CH. I have a Spikes upper on my other AR and it has a 1x7 chrome lined barrel.

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 17:16
I've already got three of those $50 lowers, one built and two waiting for the rest of their parts. I'm interested in trying polymer lowers for myself rather than following a bandwagon of people who haven't touched them.


May the Schwartz be wit yoOooOooOooU!

PEC-Memphis
03-08-2012, 18:39
You don't read so good, huh?! :dunno:

And the Bushmaster Carbon's quality was so poor, I did not have the guts to shoot that piece of crap. I've seen higher quality airsoft guns than the Carbon!

Why does everyone here have to be so effing insulting?

(By the way, you used adjective when you should have used an adverb. If you are going to be insulting, it is better to not appear to be ignorant while doing so.)

I'm just going by what you wrote about the Carbon 15, not the Cavalry Arms. It is not too surprising that the CA lower failed as you, and others, describe. From what I understand it is manufactured in R/L halves.

The Carbon 15 lower is more similar to the NFA lower. Do you know of any problems with the Carbon 15 lower, other than you don't like the way it looks?

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 19:17
Wow, another grammar Nazi,....great! Throw attitude my
way and I'll throw it back at ya!

Buy a Carbon & get back with me.
My experiences are first hand, not internet second hand BS.

WoodenPlank
03-08-2012, 19:45
I've already got three of those $50 lowers, one built and two waiting for the rest of their parts. I'm interested in trying polymer lowers for myself rather than following a bandwagon of people who haven't touched them.

I've handled enough of the Carbon ARs, and a few other polymer ARs to know the ones I have seen were junk. If someone can make one that's worth a crap, the I'll happily give it a loot. I have yet to see one that was, though....

HAIL CAESAR
03-08-2012, 20:12
Ack... if you have the money and the want....get one.

I think they would have a place on ultra-light coyote hunting rifles. These once sighted in are shot very little. So even if the plastic lower didn't last real long for a guy that shoots by the case, it would last a coyote shooter 3 lifetimes.

ottomatic
03-08-2012, 20:33
Uh,......Cavalry Arms, & Bushmaster Carbon series are a
few great examples of failed polymer AR15 designs!

There was nothing wrong with Cav Arms lowers. They had some stupid problems that violated BATF rules, which is why they are out of business, NOT because their product was bad.

WoodenPlank
03-08-2012, 20:39
There was nothing wrong with Cav Arms lowers. They had some stupid problems that violated BATF rules, which is why they are out of business, NOT because their product was bad.

FAA's experience would disagree with you....

Been there, done that! Cav Arms stock assy split from the butt to the grip.
Rendered the weapon useless! With a standard
AR15 lower, the butt stock could have been replaced in a matter of minutes,
and get the shooter back in the fight.

If ya treat a plastic AR like a toy, I'm sure it will be ok.
Take a spill with it and it WILL be a worthless piece of plastic!

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 20:44
There was nothing wrong with Cav Arms lowers. They had some stupid problems that violated BATF rules, which is why they are out of business, NOT because their product was bad.


Seems you're the first one to bring up the BATF issues
Cav Arms had. Like I stated before, and clearly you did
not read, quality and durability of the product was my
issue with Cav. They offered to replace the lower, I
asked if they could guarantee the replacement would
not split like my first. I received a song & dance about
a manufactured product. I asked for a refund & received it.

M&P Shooter
03-08-2012, 20:59
Lets just say in a Red Dawn survival type situation a Cav Arms AR frame wouldn't be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice of a weapon to run, climb and fall with. Simple fact is it's a bad idea and IMO a waste of money. I bet I can slide down a hill side with my PSA AR and not have a split receiver.

faawrenchbndr
03-08-2012, 21:27
I'd have to agree,.......my EOTWAWNI rifle is a M1903A3

ottomatic
03-09-2012, 22:19
Seems you're the first one to bring up the BATF issues
Cav Arms had. Like I stated before, and clearly you did
not read, quality and durability of the product was my
issue with Cav. They offered to replace the lower, I
asked if they could guarantee the replacement would
not split like my first. I received a song & dance about
a manufactured product. I asked for a refund & received it.

Actually, I did read that you had a problem. I totally believe that you had that problem. I also believe in ANY product having the possibility of a failure of some kind. My Cav Arms based rifle is not my EOTWAIKI rifle, but my wife really likes it as it is very light and comfortable. I seriously doubt that she will ever butt-stroke anyone with it. The reason we went with CavArms was NOT $, it was weight and nothing else.

WoodenPlank
03-09-2012, 22:23
Actually, I did read that you had a problem. I totally believe that you had that problem. I also believe in ANY product having the possibility of a failure of some kind. My Cav Arms based rifle is not my EOTWAIKI rifle, but my wife really likes it as it is very light and comfortable. I seriously doubt that she will ever butt-stroke anyone with it. The reason we went with CavArms was NOT $, it was weight and nothing else.

The weight saved on a plastic lower can easily be saved in other places on an AR made with quality, aluminum receivers. Even if you use the lightest weight parts you can on a plastic lower, the weight savings against an aluminum receiver similarly equipped is minimal.