What powder for 155 Gr. XTP?

[Minnow]

I chose the 10MM free bullet deal with my new Hornady press. I really would have preferred the heavier 200 Gr. version, but you can't substitute so I'll be loading 500 rounds using the lighter bullet.
Hornady lists the 155 Gr. XTP bullet with a operating velocity window of 850-1300FPS. I would like to work up to some defense loads using the maximum recommended velocity. I see that even Hornady has driven them to 1450FPS, but that might be a little fast for that particular bullet.
I'm in the process of choosing a powder using the following considerations;

1. Be able to achieve 1300-1325FPS with a safe published recipe.
2. Low or lower Flash.
3. Not sensitive to weather, be it 110 degrees or 10.
4. Meter decently.
5. Semi clean burning with the lighter bullet @ 1150-1325FPS.

I'm tempted to buy some Bluedot or Power Pistol, but the flash (defense loads) and Bluedot's reputation for increased pressures in cold weather are putting me off. What should I try?

I'll be launching them out of a box stock Glock 20SF.

[ctious]

Acc #7 I think will fit.

[Meathead9]

edit:

I posted before reading your entire post. Sorry, with your low flash/no flash stipulation, I won't be any help.

.

[preventec47]

The XTP 155gr is my favorite self defense bullet as I
just dont see the need to shoot through 4 or 5 bad guys
with one heavier bullet. I like the extra zip that the
lightness and greater
available case capacity for more powder of that bullet.
I personally presently am shooting the AA#9 as I can
be guaranteed of low pressures yet at the same time
hi velocities.
But if you look at the free online load manuals at the Hodgdon
website and the Accurate Arms website, you will see 6 or 8 more that will "work".
I have never shot anything at night so I cannot speak
to flash magnitude.

[Meathead9]

I guess I can help afterall. If you want to avoid flash, you can pretty much forget about Longshot, Blue Dot & Power Pistol. They are all AWESOME powders for that bullet, but they can also be flame throwers. AA powders are relatively low flash from what I've read here. You may also try SR4756 or Silhouette, which another member here did some extensive testing with. His goal was good velocity with low/no flash, and he reported both with those two powders IIRC.



.

[Yondering]

Acc #7 I think will fit.

This. AA7 fits your desires perfectly. Good velocity potential, low flash, easy metering.

AA9 will work as well, but does require heavier charges for the same velocity, and AA7 has more velocity potential just because AA9 takes up too much case capacity.

[Minnow]

Hornady 8th Edition is showing showing a max charge (12.7gr.) for A No.7 at 1250FPS launched from a 5" test Barrel. I figure that I will have to go with a higher published velocity such as 1350FPS since the Glock has a shorter 4.53" barrel.
Book wise A No.7 is coming up a bit short of my desired FPS. I've not been in the game long enough to feel comfortable going over book max.

Possible choices out of the Hornady book that can be pushed to 1350 FPS in their 5" test barrel include;

Power Pistol
800x
SR 4756
HS-6
BLUE DOT
HS-7

I'm learning about the different powder characteristics. I've got a Lyman book as well, but it doesn't list the 155gr. XTP bullet specifically.

[Yondering]

Hornady 8th Edition is showing showing a max charge (12.7gr.) for A No.7 at 1250FPS launched from a 5" test Barrel.
That's coming up a bit short of my desired FPS. I've not been in the game long enough to feel comfortable going over book max.


I wish Hornady would show pressure for their loads and wish they'd separate out the bullets that require lower charges. One of the previous editions (can't remember which one I have) shows 15.1gr max @1450 fps for the same load. That's definitely hot, but is also quite a bit higher than your desired velocity. You should get the velocity you're wanting at ~ 13.5gr, which is a safe load even in a stock barrel, and something you could try when you're more comfortable with it. A couple of our more cautious loaders here have worked up to that without issue.

[Jitterbug]

It's always a good idea to get 2 or 3 published sources that somewhat agree with each other. Just because one published source from way back when lists a higher charge weight this doesn't necessarily mean it's an ok load.

Aside from the differences resulting from components and platform, publishers being human make mistakes just like anyone else.

On another reloading forum I visit, there was a thread going with KNOWN errors from a very popular and highly regarded manual, the amount of errors was astounding, if not a bit troubling.

Due diligence in reloading is your responsibility.

[preventec47]

How come you dont like the AA#9 load data at Accurate Arms website ?

ACCURATE ARMS #7 & #9 Powder


155gr XTP 12.7 AA#7 (AA@7) 1379fps 37,500psi Accurate Arms 3.2.2


155 XTP 13.9gr AA#7 1400fps Hornady 4th edition
155 XTP 15.1gr AA#7 1450fps Hornady 7th pg. 861

155gr 15.9gr AA#9 1414 fps 32,700psi Accurate Arms manual 3.2.2 and current 3.5 manual


( if you load to overall length 1.26" you can get an extra
tenth of a gr powder in at 16.0gr and still be way below
max pressure specs. )

[Taterhead]

I am pretty convinced that the 15.1 grain charge of #7 in the Hornady book is an error. That being said.

I might be able to help. Accurate Powders are reasonably low flash powders as demonstrated in Jeffrey Behr's slo-mo camera testing. They meter extremely well.

For Accurate #7, I have done some work with a 155 GDHP so the results would likely be similar for an XTP. A max charge right out of Speer's load book of 13.0 grains (CCI 300, 1.25" COL) gets 1350 from my G20. No issues. Good function. I shot milk jugs with a slightly reduced load of 1335 fps. It penetrated 4 and stopped in the 5th. Good weight retention, but the bullet was pretty gnarly looking. My guess is that about 12.3 grains of #7 would get 1300 fps.

For Accurate #9 (I prefer this powder due to lower pressures for comparable velocities). 15.2 grains gets about 1350 fps in my G20. I used a CCI 350 primer for that load. 1.25" COL. Accurate's max is 15.9 grains (standard primer). I worked up to 16.0 grains with no problems (1415 ave). There was enough room in the case (barely) at 16.0 grains. 14.5 grains would be about 1300 fps.

If you are using standard primers for #9, adding 2 tenths of a grain to my above data would likely yield similar velocities.

I have the loaded up some #9 workups a standard CCI LP primer to see how they compare. I haven't had a chance to run them over the chrony yet, but I will post results when I do.

I have seen some evidence that Accurate powders are temperature sensitive in that velocities are a bit slower in colder weather. That is pretty typical of a lot of powders though.

I use Starline brass and a gen 3 G20 with a stock barrel.

[Minnow]

How come you dont like the AA#9 load data at Accurate Arms website ?

ACCURATE ARMS #7 & #9 Powder


155gr XTP 12.7 AA#7 (AA@7) 1379fps 37,500psi Accurate Arms 3.2.2


155 XTP 13.9gr AA#7 1400fps Hornady 4th edition
155 XTP 15.1gr AA#7 1450fps Hornady 7th pg. 861

155gr 15.9gr AA#9 1414 fps 32,700psi Accurate Arms manual 3.2.2 and current 3.5 manual


( if you load to overall length 1.26" you can get an extra
tenth of a gr powder in at 16.0gr and still be way below
max pressure specs. )




It's not that I don't like the No.9 data, just that I'm questioning it.
Accurate Arms Website doesn't list the 155gr. XTP Bullet, but instead list a 155gr. Hornady hollowpoint. I'm not sure that this isn't simply a misrepresentation as Hornady doesn't show a "standard" 155gr hollow point currently, other that the XTP. Accurate does list the XTP specifically with the 180gr. and 200gr. bullets. The XTP is a high friction bullet. I'm waiting on a call back from Accurate Arms for clarification.

The loads using AA#7 out of the previous Hornady editions have since been redacted. The current Hornady 8th edition manual shows a max load with AA#7 to be 12.7Gr's with velocity being 1250FPS out of a 5" test barrel.

[Ahmid]

I sure like Power Pistol in my tens....

[Yondering]

I sure like Power Pistol in my tens....

It's a decent powder, but he did specify low flash...

[orangeride]

I've been loading a lot of power pistol and A#5 in some plinking loads. Even in reduced plinking loads the PP has more noise and flash.

[preventec47]

I'm tempted to buy some Bluedot but Bluedot's reputation for increased pressures in cold weather are putting me off.



I hate to be picky but for my education, are you sure you
dont have that backwards ? I never heard of a powder that
had higher pressures when cold. I think it might be impossible

[Yondering]

No, he has it right. Blue Dot is known to be inverse temp sensitive. I don't know if there are any other powders out there with that characteristic; it's the only one I've heard of.

[Ahmid]

No, he has it right. Blue Dot is known to be inverse temp sensitive. I don't know if there are any other powders out there with that characteristic; it's the only one I've heard of.

I would never use Blue Dot for anything anymore.

[Meathead9]

No, he has it right. Blue Dot is known to be inverse temp sensitive. I don't know if there are any other powders out there with that characteristic; it's the only one I've heard of.

Although they aren't really 10mm powders, WST & Titegroup are also inverse temp sensitive from what I've read. It's talked about a lot in competition shooting circles.

[Yondering]

I would never use Blue Dot for anything anymore.

Why? It's a great powder, very useful for a wide variety of loads.

[Taterhead]

Why? It's a great powder, very useful for a wide variety of loads.

I agree. It has been a great 10mm load with thousands of rounds down range.

I have tested book-max loads down to about 15F. No adverse problems at all.

[Ahmid]

Why? It's a great powder, very useful for a wide variety of loads.

Too erratic from lot to lot...

[robert91922]

I reached XTP 155gr/ 1310fps w. 12.4gr of 3N38 powder
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203164&page=4 (bottom of page 4)

I presume VV N350 to be very useful for 10mm 155gr XTP as well:
11.0.................1417 fps (my data) so start at 10gr N350 and work up in 0.2 gr steps

I did it w. IGB full supported 4.5" barrel. From stock barrel you'll get a bit less speed and some more bulging, but at 1300-1350 fps w. 155gr XTP wouldn't expect any smilies or primers flattening.

[nickE10mm]

I hate to be picky but for my education, are you sure you
dont have that backwards ? I never heard of a powder that
had higher pressures when cold. I think it might be impossible

Yes, I know... it seems a direct contradiction to Boyle's law.. The reason for this is rumored to be because Blue Dot's burn characteristics are SLOWED greatly in very cold temps, which could be whats creating higher pressures in some situations. I honestly don't know but its pretty well known to be inverse temp sensitive.