Is Body Armor part of your preps? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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RMTactical
03-08-2012, 18:20
Where can one obtain some decent body armor at a good price?

LASTRESORT20
03-08-2012, 18:23
Where can one obtain some decent body armor at a good price?


Like to have some ....here is one place I have been Looking...There are many...But I like this one.

http://bulletproofme.com/

MoneyMaker
03-08-2012, 19:10
Why all my rifle rounds will penetrate your vest.LOL

RMTactical
03-08-2012, 19:42
Why all my rifle rounds will penetrate your vest.LOL

So what you are saying is that you are going to attack me, and you don't own any handguns, pistol caliber carbines, shotguns, or .22's, etc...

Thanks for the warning.

I hope you realize that some armor can protect against rifle rounds and also more importantly that most gun fights take place with handguns...

farmer-dave
03-08-2012, 20:23
I think armor has it's place for home defence, and perhaps bugging out by vehicle, but it get's pretty heavy if doing anything by foot. us palm is another spot to google.

Blunt object
03-08-2012, 20:50
Rifle plates for $149:
http://www.bodyarmoroutlet.com/content-product_info/product_id-2940/gamma_plus_iii_10x12.html

arclight610
03-08-2012, 20:53
Yes, I have soft armor and rifle plates for both me and my wife. How else am I going to loot without dying?

bdcochran
03-08-2012, 20:54
Should probably have a sticky on this.

1. Regardless of the "protection level", purchase body armor to fit you. One size does not fit all.

2. Do not gain weight! Ever.

3. If the armor is damaged, toss it - the integrity is compromised.

4. Armor does not cover much beyond the torso of the body - so don't assume that because you have body armor, you are protected.

5. If a round hits hard enough on the body armor at the right spot, you will have broken pieces of rib tossed back through your body.

6. If you decide that you want to buy it, then decide that you are going to really wear it. This means wear it when you go to the public range, to the private outdoor range and when you go hunting with buddies. Believe it, this is when people are accidentally shot.

7. Figure that if shtf, your head is going to be exposed more frequently than the rest of your body. Establish a priority of obtaining a decent helmet that fits you before considering buying body armor.

8. It probably is impossible to test drive before purchasing, but be aware of the following:
a. body armor will probably interfere with your waist carry of magazines or a holstered pistol unless you deliberately buy short armor (and which probably defeats the purpose).
b. you are going to tire more easily;
c. you will have to regulate heat build up and/or obtain appropriate undergarments.
d. you may have to re-think your outer garments and carrying of a pack.

9. Remember that most body armor is ineffective against a knife or ice pick.

LASTRESORT20
03-08-2012, 20:55
Yes, I have soft armor and rifle plates for both me and my wife. How else am I going to loot without dying?


Ohhhhh...My!:rofl:

MoneyMaker
03-08-2012, 21:10
How many rounds do you think that armor would withstand before it failed,will you be able to replace after every fire fight?And if one is trained properly guess what 2 to the chest 1 to the head,so its not gonna help you with a trained person,What if badguy is toting a slug gun,can you withstand the 1st shot to take aim and follow up and get him before he gets you after trying to recover?Close range even with body armor against a normal gold dot or fmj duty round is probably still gonna cost you your life as i dont see the normal human taking the hit and recovering fast enough to shoot said bad guy before he gets off another few shots,Sorry my opinion and a waste of money.

MoneyMaker
03-08-2012, 21:11
Should probably have a sticky on this.

1. Regardless of the "protection level", purchase body armor to fit you. One size does not fit all.

2. Do not gain weight! Ever.

3. If the armor is damaged, toss it - the integrity is compromised.

4. Armor does not cover much beyond the torso of the body - so don't assume that because you have body armor, you are protected.

5. If a round hits hard enough on the body armor at the right spot, you will have broken pieces of rib tossed back through your body.

6. If you decide that you want to buy it, then decide that you are going to really wear it. This means wear it when you go to the public range, to the private outdoor range and when you go hunting with buddies. Believe it, this is when people are accidentally shot.

7. Figure that if shtf, your head is going to be exposed more frequently than the rest of your body. Establish a priority of obtaining a decent helmet that fits you before considering buying body armor.

8. It probably is impossible to test drive before purchasing, but be aware of the following:
a. body armor will probably interfere with your waist carry of magazines or a holstered pistol unless you deliberately buy short armor (and which probably defeats the purpose).
b. you are going to tire more easily;
c. you will have to regulate heat build up and/or obtain appropriate undergarments.
d. you may have to re-think your outer garments and carrying of a pack.

9. Remember that most body armor is ineffective against a knife or ice pick. +1 that is true so true

arclight610
03-08-2012, 22:11
How many rounds do you think that armor would withstand before it failed,will you be able to replace after every fire fight?And if one is trained properly guess what 2 to the chest 1 to the head,so its not gonna help you with a trained person,What if badguy is toting a slug gun,can you withstand the 1st shot to take aim and follow up and get him before he gets you after trying to recover?Close range even with body armor against a normal gold dot or fmj duty round is probably still gonna cost you your life as i dont see the normal human taking the hit and recovering fast enough to shoot said bad guy before he gets off another few shots,Sorry my opinion and a waste of money.

Level 4 hard plates are designed to take 6 hits from a .308 class rifle. They also stop AP. If you should someone in the hard plate with a pistol, it won't even phase them.

Soft armor? Maybe so. Soft armor would stop a slug, but it would probably still cause massive internal damage.

If body armor is such a waste of money, why does the military use it?

RMTactical
03-08-2012, 22:37
How many rounds do you think that armor would withstand before it failed,will you be able to replace after every fire fight?And if one is trained properly guess what 2 to the chest 1 to the head,so its not gonna help you with a trained person,What if badguy is toting a slug gun,can you withstand the 1st shot to take aim and follow up and get him before he gets you after trying to recover?Close range even with body armor against a normal gold dot or fmj duty round is probably still gonna cost you your life as i dont see the normal human taking the hit and recovering fast enough to shoot said bad guy before he gets off another few shots,Sorry my opinion and a waste of money.

Sounds like I am already dead...

lawman800
03-09-2012, 01:56
I have soft armor and I am looking into a plate carrier but not in a rush to buy those things unless I come across some for a good deal. Not a top priority for me really because I wear one everyday in uniform and they are hot, bulky, and uncomfortable no matter how much the manufacturers tout the newest generation of thin and squishy material. It still sucks to wear and move around in.

kirgi08
03-09-2012, 02:56
Why all my rifle rounds will penetrate your vest.LOL

No they won't.

So what you are saying is that you are going to attack me, and you don't own any handguns, pistol caliber carbines, shotguns, or .22's, etc...

Thanks for the warning.

I hope you realize that some armor can protect against rifle rounds and also more importantly that most gun fights take place with handguns...

Troll he is.Take a look at his/her S/P post history.

How many rounds do you think that armor would withstand before it failed,will you be able to replace after every fire fight?

Why yes we can


And if one is trained properly guess what 2 to the chest 1 to the head,so its not gonna help you with a trained person,What ifA bad guy is toting a slug gun,can you withstand the 1st shot to take aim and follow up and get him before he gets you after trying to recover?

Does your logistics provide enough ammo for yer excursion? As ta yer next yer next,your assuming overwhelming focused force.In a firefight I'd reckon that's at least 3 ta 1 odds based on a 5 man fire team.So you can logistically 3Bs 15 trained folk ta "eliminate "tangos" in an area you "control"?


Close range even with body armor against a normal gold dot or fmj duty round is probably still gonna cost you your life as i dont see the normal human taking the hit and recovering fast enough to shoot said bad guy before he gets off another few shots,Sorry my opinion and a waste of money.

My first thought is you've never heard shots fired in anger,my second is you've never been shot.If you could field a force recon/seal/delta/green beret/sas/sbs/GSG9/ team ect,you might be right.


Although,In reading your posts and the derision you ascribe ta all S/P folk youse be a troll.I've heard shots fired in anger and got the scares ta prove it,I left as an lowly E6 and have my Airborne Ranger tab and my CIB.

Your disregard for folk that are trying ta make their families lives better is a slap in the face off all Americans,not only those alive now,those that have passed before us.'08.

Airhasz
03-09-2012, 03:25
If I lived in a major city like Detroit, etc....I would wear one all the time....every night on news several citizens shot in torso on the streets and in cars and shooting up houses. I live in the country...no gangs cause small population can't support drug corners..lol

lawman800
03-09-2012, 03:26
lots of gangs in small towns, all over, there ain't anywhere safe no more from gangs

Atomic Punk
03-09-2012, 03:47
for the people that posted useful information. thank you. i dont know about the op, but i found the information nice.

for the people that made posts about the armor just being wasted money and time. that is pretty much what you are doing.

the whole point of body armor is at least a second chance. whatever level of armor in acquired ( if its worn ) it is more than nothing. bruises and broken ribs are better than bullet wounds.

lawman800
03-09-2012, 03:56
Armor has its uses but unless you have practiced and trained with it regularly and know how it feels to walk around all day with one on, you will be in for a very unpleasant surprise when it comes time to wear one all the time.

kirgi08
03-09-2012, 04:42
Does jogging count,if not my mastiffs won again.'08.

jdavionic
03-09-2012, 04:54
No, it is not part of my preps. Not to say It's a bad idea, I just need to allocate money to other priorities that are higher.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

bdcochran
03-09-2012, 04:57
"If body armor is such a waste of money, why does the military use it?"

A fair question.

Ok. Let's think of potential answers.

I was in the Army in the 1960s. The flak jackets were not body armor, just to provide some protection against flak. Quite bulky. So, if something better comes along, you might adopt it.

Fair enough. Let's go on. Why don't Special Forces/Delta Forces routinely wear helmets and body armor? Why, during the Panama Fight did the airborne carrying 120 pound drop packs attacking the airfield not wear body armor? For the reasons that Lawman800 indicate.

Let's go into a hypothetical. You have a roomful of guys who frequent this forum. You ask for a show of hands how many people own body armor. Then you ask for people to keep their hands up if they always wear their body armor to the shooting range, whether in training or not. This is when people get shot (knowing of 4 situations). Read what Lawman800 wrote again.

Let's go into another hypothetical. You issue an entering soldier in basic training body armor. You require him to wear it except when he is showering or sleeping. Of course this isn't done in real life. He is entering a stressful period in his life. If it is good enough for the soldier, let's imagine that it is an overweight, out-of-shape guy on this forum entering a stressful period of uncertainty after shtf in his civilian life. As you reasonably conclude from Lawman800's comments, after a few hours, the body armor is going to be discarded, particularly when some Sgt isn't going to be chewing your a----ss for not wearing it.

kirgi08
03-09-2012, 05:02
No, it is not part of my preps. Not to say It's a bad idea, I just need to allocate money to other priorities that are higher.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

JD,read my reply.MM is trolling.Deal/read as you see fit.'08. :wavey:


Morning folks.:supergrin:

MoneyMaker
03-09-2012, 05:40
Not trolling at all,So have you taken a hit to the center plate of any vest and not got knocked of balance to say the least?Who all only uses a 308?I bet that the 338 Lapua sitting here for my long distance shooting will go thru any vest to date!!!!Why does the military and LE use it?Its free and they want to try to aleast protect therselves best they can.Individual use for civilian?Well to me its flat silly but it is my opinion,As see i take the long range effect and dont want them close up encounters but if i did i would do it as a surprise and not just because i wanted to provoke a close encounter situation.Could you take several hits to the center mass of the body armour of your choice and not be knocked of balance or have internal damage to take you out of a fight?Hey this is not trolling or am i a troll this is a typical debate of folks who are sterotyped into thinking they can buy all this crap and they will survive anything,So answer the Questions,Can you take a point blank to 50 yard 12 gauge slug hit to center mass of your plate and stay standing and keep fighting?
Can you take a double tap point blank or up to 21 feet from a 9mm,357,40 or 45 and not budge and keep fighting?
Can you take a direct hit from say 50-100 yards from 223 thru 338 Lapua and yeah i know its a repeat,Stand up and take the hit and keep fighting?
If you answer yes to these please provide your DEMO footage of this.If not then troll on to your fantasy world on DOOMSDAY Preps,bwahahahahahah

UneasyRider
03-09-2012, 06:30
"Body armor as a PREP" - well the question is about prepping body armor for tougher times as are all preps. Assuming that you are not jumping in with a Delta Force or seal team for an extended stay and a heavy pack body armor sounds like a great prep to me.

In an urban or suburban situation I am not looking for a rifle shot to defeat my body armor. No, I am thinking that in times of trouble and increased crime that a vest could save my life if someone decides to take a shot at me.

Of course there are always going to be people who would rather not prep body armor and just as soon as the lead starts flying around them I would be interested in an update of their "current" thoughts on the matter.

I second bulletproofme.com, keep an eye on the police surplus, I have been waiting for one in my size new to pop up.

AK_Stick
03-09-2012, 07:37
Not trolling at all,So have you taken a hit to the center plate of any vest and not got knocked of balance to say the least?Who all only uses a 308?I bet that the 338 Lapua sitting here for my long distance shooting will go thru any vest to date!!!!Why does the military and LE use it?Its free and they want to try to aleast protect therselves best they can.Individual use for civilian?Well to me its flat silly but it is my opinion,As see i take the long range effect and dont want them close up encounters but if i did i would do it as a surprise and not just because i wanted to provoke a close encounter situation.Could you take several hits to the center mass of the body armour of your choice and not be knocked of balance or have internal damage to take you out of a fight?Hey this is not trolling or am i a troll this is a typical debate of folks who are sterotyped into thinking they can buy all this crap and they will survive anything,So answer the Questions,Can you take a point blank to 50 yard 12 gauge slug hit to center mass of your plate and stay standing and keep fighting?
Can you take a double tap point blank or up to 21 feet from a 9mm,357,40 or 45 and not budge and keep fighting?
Can you take a direct hit from say 50-100 yards from 223 thru 338 Lapua and yeah i know its a repeat,Stand up and take the hit and keep fighting?
If you answer yes to these please provide your DEMO footage of this.If not then troll on to your fantasy world on DOOMSDAY Preps,bwahahahahahah


:rofl:

You're a clueless troll, but atleast you're funny.

You think a 9mm against level III or IV armor is going to drop someone?

:rofl: It won't even reliably drop someone who's NOT wearing armor.

AK_Stick
03-09-2012, 07:44
While I agree with some of what you're saying, your quite off the mark at these two.


Fair enough. Let's go on. Why don't Special Forces/Delta Forces routinely wear helmets and body armor?


They do wear armor. Generally plate carriers, and high cut "gunfighter" or other light weight helmets, but more often than not they're wearing some sort of armor because of the advantage it infers.


Why, during the Panama Fight did the airborne carrying 120 pound drop packs attacking the airfield not wear body armor? .

When we hit the ground in Just Cause, body armor wasn't being issued to everyone yet. Aviators, SF, and the Rangers all had access to it, but it wasn't being issued to every line joe until years later. Body armor for every soldier didn't become standard issue until slightly before we declared war on Iraq/A-stan. Even then some guard units didn't get full IBA/IOTV armor until the war was under way.

quake
03-09-2012, 07:49
...Can you take a double tap point blank or up to 21 feet from a 9mm,357,40 or 45 and not budge and keep fighting?
Can you take a direct hit from say 50-100 yards from 223 thru 338 Lapua and yeah i know its a repeat,Stand up and take the hit and keep fighting?
If you answer yes to these please provide your DEMO footage of this.If not then troll on to your fantasy world on DOOMSDAY Preps,bwahahahahahah

Don't have video of a .338 Lapua hit. Frankly, never heard of a person in my state being shot - even accidentally - with anything greater than a .30-06.

So along the lines of the .30-06, how about a 7.62x54R, full metal jacket, at pistol distance for an example..? The x54R is basically ballistically identical to the .30-06, so it seems a decent representation of the "baddest" threat anyone in my area is likely to see.

One example - a US soldier taking a 7.62x54R full metal jacket at around 50-60 yards full in the chest; that's basically identical to a .30-06 fmj round. Knocked him down, but back on his feet with weapon up in two seconds or less. And this guy wasn't any special-forces "operator" or superman; he was a plain old army medic.

Not the original video of the incident, but the only one I could find now. Rifle shot is ~1:15 into the video:

US Medic Shot by Sniper, and lives, and then the Sniper is chased and caught! Great stuff! - YouTube

Not all armor is rifle armor, but rifle armor is better than a lot of folks give it credit for. Someone sniping me with a Lapua, Lazzeroni, or .50BMG, nothing I can do about. But protecting from real-world (read "non-fantasy") threats is more doable than some think.

{edit to correct link}

arclight610
03-09-2012, 11:27
I've seen guys get smoked five or six times from an AK from very close range, stumble a bit, return fire and kill the shooter. We were moving past a window that was already "cleared" and the insurgent just stuck his AK out the window and started blind firing. I was the second guy in the stack, he hit the fifth guy.

And yes, I shoot at the "range" (my property) with my body armor on and train with it. Also, I wore it for 5 years so I know what it feels like. I can't say that everyone that owns body armor does, but don't generalize and say that everyone that owns body armor is a overweight couch commando.

EDIT: Also, body armor does not change my tactics. I'm still going to use cover and concealment and snap shooting. It's not like I'm going to walk out in town square and be like "Ya'll done better surrender now, I just put my body armor on!" It's just a tool in the tool bag to use. Getting shot in the chest with a .308 without armor = 99% chance of incapacitation. Getting shot in the chest with body armor on = maybe 10% incapacitation.

lawman800
03-09-2012, 11:33
"If body armor is such a waste of money, why does the military use it?"

A fair question.

Ok. Let's think of potential answers.

I was in the Army in the 1960s. The flak jackets were not body armor, just to provide some protection against flak. Quite bulky. So, if something better comes along, you might adopt it.

Fair enough. Let's go on. Why don't Special Forces/Delta Forces routinely wear helmets and body armor? Why, during the Panama Fight did the airborne carrying 120 pound drop packs attacking the airfield not wear body armor? For the reasons that Lawman800 indicate.

Let's go into a hypothetical. You have a roomful of guys who frequent this forum. You ask for a show of hands how many people own body armor. Then you ask for people to keep their hands up if they always wear their body armor to the shooting range, whether in training or not. This is when people get shot (knowing of 4 situations). Read what Lawman800 wrote again.

Let's go into another hypothetical. You issue an entering soldier in basic training body armor. You require him to wear it except when he is showering or sleeping. Of course this isn't done in real life. He is entering a stressful period in his life. If it is good enough for the soldier, let's imagine that it is an overweight, out-of-shape guy on this forum entering a stressful period of uncertainty after shtf in his civilian life. As you reasonably conclude from Lawman800's comments, after a few hours, the body armor is going to be discarded, particularly when some Sgt isn't going to be chewing your a----ss for not wearing it.

Well put. I had a friend who got hired on LAPD when he was quite young. He got issued his vest. He got very excited over the vest as a young man with new toys. He tried wearing his vest all the time, off duty, hanging out with us.

That didn't last long, especially when the temperatures got higher in SoCal. Nobody made fun of him or anything either. He learned on his own how it was not really improving his life on a daily basis to have armor on all the time.

Not trolling at all,So have you taken a hit to the center plate of any vest and not got knocked of balance to say the least?Who all only uses a 308?I bet that the 338 Lapua sitting here for my long distance shooting will go thru any vest to date!!!!Why does the military and LE use it?Its free and they want to try to aleast protect therselves best they can.Individual use for civilian?Well to me its flat silly but it is my opinion,As see i take the long range effect and dont want them close up encounters but if i did i would do it as a surprise and not just because i wanted to provoke a close encounter situation.Could you take several hits to the center mass of the body armour of your choice and not be knocked of balance or have internal damage to take you out of a fight?Hey this is not trolling or am i a troll this is a typical debate of folks who are sterotyped into thinking they can buy all this crap and they will survive anything,So answer the Questions,Can you take a point blank to 50 yard 12 gauge slug hit to center mass of your plate and stay standing and keep fighting?
Can you take a double tap point blank or up to 21 feet from a 9mm,357,40 or 45 and not budge and keep fighting?
Can you take a direct hit from say 50-100 yards from 223 thru 338 Lapua and yeah i know its a repeat,Stand up and take the hit and keep fighting?
If you answer yes to these please provide your DEMO footage of this.If not then troll on to your fantasy world on DOOMSDAY Preps,bwahahahahahah

Wait, if I use duct tape for my rifle plates and double up on the back plates, I heard I can absorb multiple hits from a 338 Lapua set up across the street from the biggest mall in America while my hot supermodel wife sets up the briefcase thermonuclear device as my rapid response team flies over in the quad battery pack powered golf cart with their G36K carbines after saving the mayor's son from being anally invaded in the food court restrooms.:whistling:

If you are really set to kill someone with a sniper rifle, it won't make any difference what armor the victim has unless the victim gets lucky and doesn't die on the first shot and is able to run away before you let off the second shot. You can't be armored up 100% and if you are that good of a sniper, you can find an exposed area to hit.

As for taking hits at close range and being able to fight back, yes, lots of officers have taken hits at close range and continued to fight back and won. A female officer took a shotgun blast point blank to her chest, got back up, and was able to win the fight. Forgot the circs... but it was a grocery store robbery.

Youtube some police shooting videos and you can see quite a few traffic stops where cops get shot in the chest point blank but continue to function and shoot back. Adrenaline does a lot to the body when you see a gun pointed at you and it's fight or flight. You are assuming that guys wearing armor is just going to sit there oblivious and flopping around like overcooked spaghetti with no resilience.

bdcochran
03-09-2012, 11:56
I stand corrected. Arclight610 is not a couch potato.

Here is what I know.
1. you fight like you train. If you don't train with body armor you won't fight with it.
I attended a class for departing medics. Drills were like evaluating, stablizing and evacuating under live fire. The young dudes who did not wear body armor daily were wilting in 75 degree weather.
2. people overevaluate their capabilities. One morning call in the Army we had only 37 members of the combat company report ready for duty. What happened to the other studs. Well, they ran a few miles with a rifle, minimal pack, and a helmet, no body armor.
3. body armor can work. A policeman from one of my classes was one of two wearing body armor who were killed on the same dynamic entry in real life. They just weren't hit on the body armor.
4. My observations won't change anyone's mind about whether they buy body armor, the level of protection or what they do. I just share them. I remember what it was like to be in my '20s in the US Army. Going from being an academic to stress. Standing all day, being yelled at, exercising, marching, noise. Add to it wearing a helmet, carrying a rifle, wearing a pack. Now do it today. Get up from the computer. Put on body armor. Shtf. Most of us will take a long time to adjust. It will take weeks, if not months. Lawman800 wears his on the job. If you think that you will function as well as Lawman800 with body armor in the next 5 minutes . . .

lawman800
03-09-2012, 12:00
I don't even function that well with it. If you don't know your limitations with armor on, you will be in for a big surprise when it goes down. We shoot at the range with armor on and we also do it with our ballistic helmet once in a while. It's an eye opener. Your range of motion gets restricted, your field of vision is different, every movement feels different, and you have to adjust or at least know how it affects you, even if you don't completely adapt to it.

In a firefight or survival situation, you don't have time to get used to armor or adapt, you do or die. It's the same as anything else, you better know what it's like before you have to do it for the first time in a real life or death situation.

Javelin
03-09-2012, 12:11
How many rounds do you think that armor would withstand before it failed,will you be able to replace after every fire fight?And if one is trained properly guess what 2 to the chest 1 to the head,so its not gonna help you with a trained person,What if badguy is toting a slug gun,can you withstand the 1st shot to take aim and follow up and get him before he gets you after trying to recover?Close range even with body armor against a normal gold dot or fmj duty round is probably still gonna cost you your life as i dont see the normal human taking the hit and recovering fast enough to shoot said bad guy before he gets off another few shots,Sorry my opinion and a waste of money.

Soft armor does not equal plates. And as far as recovery.... Depends on what type of shape you are in that determines how quickly you are going to recover. I know a Soldier that was hit w/ a 12 GA slug point blank, got up, and beat the living crap out of the Hadji that did it.

I also know people that have a hard time getting up off the couch to go make a sandwich. I think in your case you are correct that body armor would be a waste of money for reasons I cannot say on this board.

:wavey:

ancient_serpent
03-09-2012, 12:19
Body armor is a great thing for some folks. I wear rifle plates all of the time: work and training alike. With a little practice and decent physical conditioning, anyone can do the same. Temps range from just above freezing to 130+ over here.
AK-Stick is dead on with what he said earlier in the thread.
Is it a "must-have" for preppers? Given monetary constraints and your own priorities I don't think that it is for everyone; it happens to be a part of mine. I'm in the process of setting up a second set right now: level III stand alones and a slick plate carrier.

Akita
03-09-2012, 14:13
The best way to deal with Trolls is to ignore or maybe just make fun of them.

vtbluegrass
03-09-2012, 22:38
No Gecko45 references yet. GT is losing its edge.

lawman800
03-09-2012, 23:18
No Gecko45 references yet. GT is losing its edge.

Wait, if I use duct tape for my rifle plates and double up on the back plates, I heard I can absorb multiple hits from a 338 Lapua set up across the street from the biggest mall in America while my hot supermodel wife sets up the briefcase thermonuclear device as my rapid response team flies over in the quad battery pack powered golf cart with their G36K carbines after saving the mayor's son from being anally invaded in the food court restrooms.:whistling:

You must have missed this...:whistling::rofl::supergrin:

RMTactical
03-10-2012, 02:09
No Gecko45 references yet. GT is losing its edge.

Clearly you didnt read the whole thread.

LongGun1
03-10-2012, 08:11
Where can one obtain some decent body armor at a good price?


IMO...Good responses on where to find it..

..and personal experiences, etc...

..but the thread really needs a can of troll-b-gone! :rofl:



Yes, I have body armor...

..so does my family!


As far as particulars..

..that has been covered in more recent threads.

Thermal loading, realistic training & expectations bear repeating..IMO!

Wil Ufgood
03-10-2012, 08:14
http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin/

RoundBrown
03-10-2012, 10:16
Watch the hollywood shootout with the bank robbers and tell me armor doesnt work..Those BG's took alot hits and kept going

AK_Stick
03-10-2012, 10:41
http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin/



You don't want that crap.

MoneyMaker
03-10-2012, 11:30
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.

lawman800
03-10-2012, 12:08
Watch the hollywood shootout with the bank robbers and tell me armor doesnt work..Those BG's took alot hits and kept going

Those guys were being shot at by pistols at what should be carbine or at least sub-gun range. They also had more than the usual layers of armor compared to cops and soldiers, who may wear 1 soft armor vest or maybe an external vest with rifle plates.

Those guys in North Hollywood were armored up like tanks and only faced pistols and shotguns. Soldiers face rifle and machine gun fire with less armor.

And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.

You do realize there are lots of cops and soldiers here, right?

I don't know what you do, but facing it EVERYDAY of your life? Kinda overly dramatic there, no?

I have 2 close personal friends who have shot people in the line of duty, both have had to deal with killing the perps. Both got over it and are living normal lives.

I am lucky to have never had to do that, got close, but not actually had to pull the trigger and was able to call it off at the last split second. Yeah, I was affected for a while, but I got over it.

Not to say there aren't people who will be affected forever and never be the same and can't get over it. It's human.

But if you claim you have shot people and you are dealing with it every single day of your life and you can't get over it, then perhaps you need to seek professional help or spiritual help. Whatever help is out there, get some and in the meantime, stop trolling here and go shopping at the biggest retail center in America.

AK_Stick
03-10-2012, 14:17
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.



Everyone handles it differently. Some people aren't really disturbed by it, if they were justified.

Atomic Punk
03-10-2012, 15:09
You don't want that crap.

i have only heard things saying that stuff was the next greatest thing. have not heard criticism of it.
dont get me wrong. i do not want to call you out on it. just interested in why you say its crap.

AK_Stick
03-10-2012, 15:35
No offense, but if you've only heard its the next best thing, you obviously know nothing of body armor. And you haven't done any sort of reading on it.


There was much controversy over the armor, and lots of shady dealings on behalf of Pinnacle.

They sold a bunch of armor to the AF that was recalled due to improper ceramic disks, and they lied about the NIJ certification the vests held.

They also tried to get Congress to remove the requirements for testing that was leading to the failure of the armor when being shot. They wanted to ship armor to the test sight and shoot it as soon as the box was opened. Instead of following the established protocol.


When it works, Dragon Skin is pretty good stuff, and I think if they could fix the issues with it, it might perform well. However, its also been proven to fail under conditions that regular body armor will pass.

Another consideration is if the vest is ever shot, you have to replace the entire vest instead of a conventional plate.

I'm also pretty sure that their armor is not NIJ certified at this point.

Atomic Punk
03-10-2012, 16:12
No offense, but if you've only heard its the next best thing, you obviously know nothing of body armor. And you haven't done any sort of reading on it.


There was much controversy over the armor, and lots of shady dealings on behalf of Pinnacle.

They sold a bunch of armor to the AF that was recalled due to improper ceramic disks, and they lied about the NIJ certification the vests held.

They also tried to get Congress to remove the requirements for testing that was leading to the failure of the armor when being shot. They wanted to ship armor to the test sight and shoot it as soon as the box was opened. Instead of following the established protocol.


When it works, Dragon Skin is pretty good stuff, and I think if they could fix the issues with it, it might perform well. However, its also been proven to fail under conditions that regular body armor will pass.

Another consideration is if the vest is ever shot, you have to replace the entire vest instead of a conventional plate.

I'm also pretty sure that their armor is not NIJ certified at this point.


very concise, thank you.

it has been a while since i read much on body armor. and i have not looked into the newer stuff. and i figured i would get a better reason from somebody that seems to know what they are talking about.

SFCSMITH(RET)
03-10-2012, 16:37
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.


<<<Sleeps like a baby.

quake
03-10-2012, 16:57
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.

I know how it feels to be shot, and I know how it feels to shoot a man; and I'm sure I'm not the only one here. They both suck. It was over 20 years ago and I can still tell you the exact date. In fact, last time I pulled a gun on a man (less than ten years ago - I was in uniform and he was a young scumbag with delusions of grandeur) I simply said to him across my sights, "December 23rd, 1987." With a puzzled look he asked me what I meant and I told him, "Last time I shot a man - (honestly the only time, but I didn't tell him that) - was December 23rd, 1987. Please don't make me spend the rest of my life remembering today's date." He came to his senses and nobody got shot. I don't remember that day's date.

Of course, your question has nothing to do with the subject matter of this thread; which is - sadly - coming to be more & more expected.

One request. Spell-check was created for a reason. For that matter, so was basic grade-school education. Shame that neither one seems to have made much impression on some folks. :
...1.5 millino dollar...
...ventalation...
...civilization cocurs with the issue...
...the best thing that has happen so far...
...will explode thereselves...
...you can ruin there day real fast...
...you can obsolete there power grid...
...and then fill there venting up...
...and then put it on nation tv...
...using the silo shutes...
...Marigiuana...
...i would get food from there house...
...Because the government refuse to treat anyone...
...solvents being poured down there exhaust...
...to try to aleast protect therselves best they can...
...someting...
...why waste all you money...
...this is a every event thast has happen and took place[/B]...
...folks seem to fair pretty well...
...in a old silo...
...how many of you feloows...

In a total of 31 posts in this forum, twenty-three spelling and/or syntax errors. Even gunkid and the mall ninja were more literate than that.

If you want to continue to have conversations with the grownups, please either activate your spell check or lay off the intoxicants.

MoneyMaker
03-10-2012, 17:49
You folks worry to much about spelling or grammar as you cant face the truth!!!!!!!!!!

AK_Stick
03-10-2012, 19:18
The truth of what? That you're posting in a forum filled with lots of current or former LEO's and Military?


Why is it surprising that after over a decade of being at constant war, there would be people who had shot people on this forum?

quake
03-10-2012, 19:41
You folks worry to much about spelling or grammar as you cant face the truth!!!!!!!!!!

What truth specifically? If you'll genuinely make a claim or ask a question, I'll try my best to genuinely respond/debate the claim or answer the question.

What truth am I, or are we as a group, unable/unwilling to face? Specifics, please.

kirgi08
03-10-2012, 20:04
Folks just add him ta your list.'08. :fishing:

G30Mike
03-10-2012, 20:12
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.

Quake is right....I remember what and when it happened like it was yesterday.... Two men dead, Friday, August 13th 2004.....

Don't make assumptions. I don't "deal" with anything now. I'm over it, and I never really lost any sleep in the first place.

LongGun1
03-10-2012, 20:48
Folks just add him ta your list.'08. :fishing:

A Big +1 on that! :rofl: :supergrin:

LongGun1
03-10-2012, 21:03
Even gunkid and the mall ninja were more literate than that.



+1 :thumbsup:

Maybe it needs to go to Amazon or Books-a-Million and search for "Trolling for Dummies".. :rofl:

..as just maybe.. :upeyes:

..there is the slim chance it can grow up & be..

.. a "better class of troll"! :whistling:


Personally, I think there is little hope of redemption! :wavey:

lawman800
03-10-2012, 21:30
I would stop responding until he responds to my question. Notice how he can't respond intelligently when you ask what is his background and qualification which allows him to say these things to us... and he goes off on another irrelevant attack.

Moneymaker (yes, I am calling you out by name), answer the questions about your background and experience. What do you know, how do you know it, and what allows you to say these things?

You are acting just like an ignorant liberal who spouts out insults and emotional arguments without being able to relay them to your own experience or knowledge while you argue against people who are in the know. Lay your foundation or keep it up and reinforce what everyone already knows about you.

ancient_serpent
03-11-2012, 00:07
And how many of you feloows have actually shot someone and have to deal with it everyday of your life?You are some interenet tools for sure.

Never wanted to hurt anyone, but didn't miss a bit of sleep over any of it.
Actually, as several have mentioned, GT has many, many Police officers and military members.
Just to mention a few: Bren, AK_Stick, lawman800, SFCSMITH...pay a little attention and I'm sure you'll figure that out by yourself.
So, MoneyMaker tell us more about "feloows" dealing with shootings.:upeyes:

RMTactical
03-11-2012, 20:15
Folks just add him ta your list.'08. :fishing:

How do you do it?

kirgi08
03-11-2012, 20:31
You serious ? .'08.

lawman800
03-12-2012, 09:27
Did someone spray Troll-Be-Gone?

kirgi08
03-12-2012, 09:38
Not yet.'08.

bdcochran
03-12-2012, 12:49
Here are a couple of additional points to add to the list:

1. take any manufacturer's representations with a grain of salt. One famous body armor company absolutely knew that its body armor deteriorated over time and still sold it. Recalled 200,000 plus units but not all because the company said it could not afford a total recall.

2. remember - if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is - applies to cars, guns, body armor.

"The U. S. Government has already settled with six other participants in the Zylon body armor industry for over $54 million. Additionally, lawsuits are still pending against Toyobo Co., Honeywell Inc., Second Chance Body Armor, Inc. and First Choice Armor Inc, makers and distributors of the allegedly defective body armor. . . .":wow::wavey:

Companies that knowingly sell the government defective bullet proof vests not only commit fraud, they put the lives of our law enforcement women and men at risk," said Tony West, Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division of the Department of Justice. "We will pursue vigorously allegations that these or any other companies manufactured flawed vests, knew about their problems, yet sold them anyway."

blueyedmule
03-25-2012, 08:57
I see a lot of focus on the heavier plate armor. Maybe I missed reference because I'm not familiar with all the brand names of armor. In a lower level situation of social unrest (you'll get tired of me talking about this, probably) even a knife vest might be a prudent and cost-effective vest for most of us who can't afford the high level tactical stuff. Also, if you don't want to draw unwanted attention to yourself but blend into your environment or trigger LEO or military folk who may be watching, something more concealable might be a good idea as an option even for those who can afford to go all-out with the more expensive stuff. I'm thinking something like this:

http://bulletproofme.com/ProMAX-Concealable-Stab-Resistant.shtml

Promax Stab-Resistant Arimid, Stab 1, Ballistic level II. Bought used it might be affordable for more and provide some level of concealable protection.

Luminary
03-26-2012, 06:28
I plan on shooting the aggressor before he shoots me. I personally don't see a point in body armor. If the world has gotten THAT bad, then....

blueyedmule
03-26-2012, 06:39
I had a kid pull a Ka-Bar sized blade on me one New Year's. The world hadn't gotten that bad, MY world had gotten that bad at the moment. I wasn't a CCW holder then, and even if I had been I probably would not have been carrying simply because I'd had a few drinks before the missus and I left the apartment on foot. It might have been a good night to be wearing a light stab-resistant vest even though it wasn't the end of the world--it could have been mine. I employed the "I'm crazier than you" approach and bluffed him into running. I don't necessarily recommend it but it can work. It did. I wasn't in a bad neighborhood, either, I just ran into someone having a bad night. Totally random, as violence often is.

Plans and training and intentions are good to have. However the best-laid battle plan never lasts more than the first moments of combat.

AK_Stick
03-26-2012, 21:59
I plan on shooting the aggressor before he shoots me. I personally don't see a point in body armor. If the world has gotten THAT bad, then....



And no good plan survives first contact. :rofl:

4TS&W
04-23-2012, 14:37
Quake is right....I remember what and when it happened like it was yesterday.... Two men dead, Friday, August 13th 2004.....

Don't make assumptions. I don't "deal" with anything now. I'm over it, and I never really lost any sleep in the first place.

Wow, Friday the 13th.. That one was actually unlucky... Or lucky, depending on your perspective...


Sent via telepathy

expatman
04-24-2012, 11:21
WOW! Lots of opinions for, against and otherwise in this thread.

Is body armor a part of my preps? Yes. Not really because I planned it that way but because I happen to have a couple of sets for work that I do not need to use right now. So, they sit at home.

I would not place it super high on my priority list. I think food, shelter, water, defensive weapons etc... should be first. If you have most of those bases covered then sure; body armor is a good thing. You might even stumble upon a good deal and if that is the case then pick it up even before you finish up some of your other preps.

As for gaining or losing weight with regards to the fit of your armor. I would not worry too much about it unless you plan on gaining/losing a substantial amount. I regularly gain about 15 Lbs. when I go home and lose it again when I go back to work. My armor adjusts just fine with a couple of strap adjustments.

Worried about how it affects your pistol draw etc..? Sure it may make it harder but there are ways around it. Make sure you train that way and become accustomed to it. It is really no biggie.

Being shot in your armor? Yep I was. I caught a 7.62X54 just to the inside of my right nipple while wearing my armor with SAPI plate. Amazingly, I did not fall down. I did not suffer broken ribs. I did not suffer from internal injury. In fact I hardly bruised. I was more concerned with the **** in my drawers than the round to my armor to tell the truth. I was more than capable to continue the fight but I was only in the line of fire from an ambush on a U.S. convoy outside our gates from about 150-200 meters away through the trees. If I could have seen targets I could have easily engaged them.

Bottom line, I say if you find a good deal jump on it. If not then wait until you are more prepared with the basics.

TactiCool
04-26-2012, 22:51
I see a lot of focus on the heavier plate armor. Maybe I missed reference because I'm not familiar with all the brand names of armor. In a lower level situation of social unrest (you'll get tired of me talking about this, probably) even a knife vest might be a prudent and cost-effective vest for most of us who can't afford the high level tactical stuff. Also, if you don't want to draw unwanted attention to yourself but blend into your environment or trigger LEO or military folk who may be watching, something more concealable might be a good idea as an option even for those who can afford to go all-out with the more expensive stuff. I'm thinking something like this:

http://bulletproofme.com/ProMAX-Concealable-Stab-Resistant.shtml

Promax Stab-Resistant Arimid, Stab 1, Ballistic level II. Bought used it might be affordable for more and provide some level of concealable protection.

That's not something I would spend my money on. You can buy a Fox or Condor carrier with NIJ III plates front and rear for around $250-$350 on Ebay. Also, I personally prefer steel plates. The multi-hit capability of steel far exceeds that of equivalent threat level ceramic plates. Plates are also not hard to conceal if you've got the right carrier.

TangoFoxtrot
04-27-2012, 04:09
Absolutely! IBA from point blank.

UneasyRider
04-27-2012, 05:12
As the potential for race riots increases this summer body armor will be a more important item to have available in the northern cities.

Big Bird
04-27-2012, 05:33
If you are serious about armor...accept no substitutes:

http://www.bhmpics.com/walls/m1_a1_abrams_tank-other.jpg

expatman
04-27-2012, 09:23
Some advice for those of you considering or already running steel plates.

Steel has a much higher problem with spalling. It is highly recommended to use spall guards when depending on plates. I have seen at least one real world instance of a wounded man who was also affected by severe spalling. He was wearing steel plates and they worked for him but he caught a lot of bullet fragments in his mouth that entered via the bottom of his chin and cheek area. He also had wounds on his limbs but that is not the point of this example.

As I am sure most of you know, once the round strikes the plate it just does not disappear. It shatters and explodes into very small pieces. Those fragments go somewhere. Often times they end up in ones face, shoulders, arms, etc.

I am not versed on spall guards since I use ceramic plates but I have read that they make spall guards from layers of Kevlar thick enough to capture these bullet fragments. I imagine that they look similar to plate backers that one would wear behind ceramic plates in a plate carrier.

John Rambo
04-27-2012, 13:34
Chainmail and leather pads around impact zones. Thats all you need to protect from being bitten. when the hoardes are behind you, you don't need a big ol' vest slowing you down and wearing you out.

TactiCool
04-27-2012, 17:42
Some advice for those of you considering or already running steel plates.

Steel has a much higher problem with spalling. It is highly recommended to use spall guards when depending on plates. I have seen at least one real world instance of a wounded man who was also affected by severe spalling. He was wearing steel plates and they worked for him but he caught a lot of bullet fragments in his mouth that entered via the bottom of his chin and cheek area. He also had wounds on his limbs but that is not the point of this example.

As I am sure most of you know, once the round strikes the plate it just does not disappear. It shatters and explodes into very small pieces. Those fragments go somewhere. Often times they end up in ones face, shoulders, arms, etc.

I am not versed on spall guards since I use ceramic plates but I have read that they make spall guards from layers of Kevlar thick enough to capture these bullet fragments. I imagine that they look similar to plate backers that one would wear behind ceramic plates in a plate carrier.

Another thing to consider is that the bullet frag will eventually compromise the integrity of the carrier itself, even to the point that there is a risk of the plate falling out, if enough hits are sustained to a specific area. However, most of the higher end steel plates that I have seen, and worn, have a thick piece of ballistic nylon adhered to the strike face as well as to the body side of the plate to absorb the spall/frag.

Another aspect of wearing steel is that flat plates can be a serious PITA , especially the larger 10X12 and up sizes. Curved plates always result in increased comfort, at least, that's the general consensus.

TangoFoxtrot
04-27-2012, 21:01
If you are serious about armor...accept no substitutes:

http://www.bhmpics.com/walls/m1_a1_abrams_tank-other.jpg
Nice!!!! Now thats what I'm talking about. Go big or go home!:supergrin:

lawman800
04-27-2012, 21:13
Chainmail and leather pads around impact zones. Thats all you need to protect from being bitten. when the hoardes are behind you, you don't need a big ol' vest slowing you down and wearing you out.

You don't have to be the fastest guy, just faster than the slowest guy... or just shoot a guy in the knee and say sorry as you run away from the zombie horde.

AK_Stick
04-27-2012, 21:26
That's not something I would spend my money on. You can buy a Fox or Condor carrier with NIJ III plates front and rear for around $250-$350 on Ebay. Also, I personally prefer steel plates. The multi-hit capability of steel far exceeds that of equivalent threat level ceramic plates. Plates are also not hard to conceal if you've got the right carrier.



Steel is nice, but its also limiting depending upon the round being fired.


If multi hit is what you want, the best current plates on the market are the ceramic/hybrid's like AMI's TAC3S, and have gone 30+ hits without failure.

kirgi08
04-27-2012, 21:46
You don't have to be the fastest guy, just faster than the slowest guy... or just shoot a guy in the knee and say sorry as you run away from the zombie horde.

I don't havta outrun the Bear,just you.'08. :whistling:

NeverMore1701
04-28-2012, 20:47
I have an older style IBA with SAPI plates. Didn't really go looking to buy it, but for the price I stumbled on it at I couldn't resist.

TangoFoxtrot
04-29-2012, 06:15
I have an older style IBA with SAPI plates. Didn't really go looking to buy it, but for the price I stumbled on it at I couldn't resist.

I Like my IBA, its the 2004 version. I have two sets of plates, the thin ceramic SAPI and the thicker rubber coated ceramic SAPI. The IBA's are a bit bulky , but do the job well.

Stevekozak
04-29-2012, 06:49
BA is not currently part of my preps. Not high up on my list. If, however, I had a lot more money than I do, I would invest in some on a "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" principle. I think a very important aspect of wearing BA, on top of training in it, is to realize that it does not make you invincible or (no pun intended) bulletproof. Know the limits of your gear and act accordingly.

Protus
04-29-2012, 07:08
BA is not currently part of my preps. Not high up on my list. If, however, I had a lot more money than I do, I would invest in some on a "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" principle. I think a very important aspect of wearing BA, on top of training in it, is to realize that it does not make you invincible or (no pun intended) bulletproof. Know the limits of your gear and act accordingly.

bingo.

I have some BA, very limited but i have some.
I only got it after i rounded out the rest of the preps that get used every day ( food,water and TP :supergrin: ).
When i get some free funds i would like to at least have some plates with soft armor in some low pro carriers for the wife and me. but we dont plan on being hsld operators.....so i guess i'll cross that bridge when i get there.
So i dont get accused of zealotry..bulletproofme.com is one of the more popular online resources ( sans ebay/craigslist) for BA. YMMV

TangoFoxtrot
04-30-2012, 04:22
BA is not currently part of my preps. Not high up on my list. If, however, I had a lot more money than I do, I would invest in some on a "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" principle. I think a very important aspect of wearing BA, on top of training in it, is to realize that it does not make you invincible or (no pun intended) bulletproof. Know the limits of your gear and act accordingly.

Invincible....No!...That is what headshots are for.:whistling:

series1811
04-30-2012, 04:28
I always wonder about the people who have 10,000 rounds of ammunition saved up for Armageddon, and seem to think that with 10,000 outgoing rounds, there wouldn't be any incoming in return.

Hell, yes, a vest is a good idea. But, like has been mentioned, you don't want to be putting it on and learning to move and shoot with it on, at the same time you are having your first firefight.

TangoFoxtrot
04-30-2012, 05:16
I always wonder about the people who have 10,000 rounds of ammunition saved up for Armageddon, and seem to think that with 10,000 outgoing rounds, there wouldn't be any incoming in return.

Hell, yes, a vest is a good idea. But, like has been mentioned, you don't want to be putting it on and learning to move and shoot with it on, at the same time you are having your first firefight.

This is true!

kirgi08
04-30-2012, 07:44
I always wonder about the people who have 10,000 rounds of ammunition saved up for Armageddon, and seem to think that with 10,000 outgoing rounds, there wouldn't be any incoming in return.

Hell, yes, a vest is a good idea. But, like has been mentioned, you don't want to be putting it on and learning to move and shoot with it on, at the same time you are having your first firefight.

:goodpost: :agree:

Train like your life depends on it,someday,it might.

We do run load outs and are helping family learn.'08.

lawman800
04-30-2012, 08:28
I always wonder about the people who have 10,000 rounds of ammunition saved up for Armageddon, and seem to think that with 10,000 outgoing rounds, there wouldn't be any incoming in return.

Hell, yes, a vest is a good idea. But, like has been mentioned, you don't want to be putting it on and learning to move and shoot with it on, at the same time you are having your first firefight.

Most people who think they will even put out 100 rounds any time soon in a SHTF situation, much less 10,000 rounds, will be sorely disappointed when reality hits and it ends up being 99.384794% sitting at home, eating MRE's, while watching the news... as it passes you by... unless you are at the epicenter when it goes down.

kirgi08
04-30-2012, 08:52
Most people who think they will even put out 100 rounds any time soon in a SHTF situation, much less 10,000 rounds, will be sorely disappointed when reality hits and it ends up being 99.384794% sitting at home, eating MRE's, while watching the news... as it passes you by... unless you are at the epicenter when it goes down.

Dominoes,my friend.A start at one end will start other events on the reverse.Sorta like a coin,it has an obverse and reverse.What starts an event in your AO,will have a response in mine.'08.

series1811
04-30-2012, 11:45
Most people who think they will even put out 100 rounds any time soon in a SHTF situation, much less 10,000 rounds, will be sorely disappointed when reality hits and it ends up being 99.384794% sitting at home, eating MRE's, while watching the news... as it passes you by... unless you are at the epicenter when it goes down.

Yeah, you are screwed if that's where you are. During Katrina, our patrols were going through hundreds of rounds everytime they went out. But, that was because, some guy on a rooftop or levee would take a pot shot at them (God knows why), usually too far away to hit anybody except by luck, and they would send back a couple of hundred rounds to show him what a bad idea that was. They were also shooting a crapload of dogs that were eating the dead bodies and being real aggressive when they tried to run them off.

The funniest story I heard was from my boss who was talking to one of the other supervisors, one of my friends, giving him some instructions, when he heard a couple shots over the phone.

"What was that?" he asked.
"Just some Yahoos shooting at us."
Then he heard the return fusilage. "What was that?" he asked.
"Just the guys shooting back," he said. :supergrin:

I was helicoptering back and forth between New Orleans and Mississippi, and getting stuck doing more admin work, and search and rescue, than patrolling, and the difference in the two areas was like night and day, even though Mississippi had a lot more destruction. Things were under control pretty quick in Mississippi. Not so much in Louisiana.

But, there was a pretty massive law enforcement response to New Orleans and Lousisana (although it took a couple of days for everybody to get down there). I wonder what it would be like for lots of places to go down at the same time. I don't think it would be good.

The thing I will always remember about Katrina is how thin the veneer of civilization really is.

arclight610
04-30-2012, 12:30
I always wonder about the people who have 10,000 rounds of ammunition saved up for Armageddon, and seem to think that with 10,000 outgoing rounds, there wouldn't be any incoming in return.

Hell, yes, a vest is a good idea. But, like has been mentioned, you don't want to be putting it on and learning to move and shoot with it on, at the same time you are having your first firefight.

I don't think most people buy tons of ammo to use in a SHTF War. I think they are moreso thinking along the lines of reduced available through legislation. Same thing with mags.

lawman800
04-30-2012, 20:18
Dominoes,my friend.A start at one end will start other events on the reverse.Sorta like a coin,it has an obverse and reverse.What starts an event in your AO,will have a response in mine.'08.

Yeah, you are screwed if that's where you are. During Katrina, our patrols were going through hundreds of rounds everytime they went out. But, that was because, some guy on a rooftop or levee would take a pot shot at them (God knows why), usually too far away to hit anybody except by luck, and they would send back a couple of hundred rounds to show him what a bad idea that was.

Yep, but like I was saying, if you are not close to any epicenters and you don't get sympathy riots in your town, you will be sitting there by your window with your hundreds of rounds waiting for a long time doing nothing because most of America will not spontaneously combust into Fallujah during the initial firefight.

kirgi08
05-01-2012, 08:38
I don't think most people buy tons of ammo to use in a SHTF War. I think they are more so thinking along the lines of reduced available through legislation. Same thing with mags.

That's a 50/50 coin flip.

Yep, but like I was saying, if you are not close to any epicenters and you don't get sympathy riots in your town, you will be sitting there by your window with your hundreds of rounds waiting for a long time doing nothing because most of America will not spontaneously combust into Fallujah during the initial firefight.


We maybe,there is an outbreak of Trayvon Martin support in the town we live outside of..'08.

series1811
05-01-2012, 13:16
Yep, but like I was saying, if you are not close to any epicenters and you don't get sympathy riots in your town, you will be sitting there by your window with your hundreds of rounds waiting for a long time doing nothing because most of America will not spontaneously combust into Fallujah during the initial firefight.

Yeah, most of America wouldn't even know that New York, Chicago, L.A., and Miami were on fire unless they saw it on TV (or care). :supergrin:

lawman800
05-01-2012, 20:22
Yeah, most of America wouldn't even know that New York, Chicago, L.A., and Miami were on fire unless they saw it on TV (or care). :supergrin:

Seriously, outside of the immediate area of the LA riots, people were living and shopping and sleeping and partying and whooping it up as if nothing changed other than the night was lit up red from the fires.

(well, at least we did at UCLA and Beverly Hills... which was not far at all)

tc556guy
05-02-2012, 11:15
Yup. Both soft armor and plates

Arc Angel
05-02-2012, 13:57
Where can one obtain some decent body armor at a good price?

It should be; but, because it's expensive and I wouldn't wear it everyday, I've put off buying body armor. (Most of the civilians I know who own body armor only rarely actually wear it.) However, at the first sign of civil riots, I'm going to immediately order me some: (1) heavy body armor w/ ceramic plates, and (2) a larger medical emergency trauma kit with everything needed to staunch blood flow and sew things up. (I'm a pretty good field-expedient medic. When you live around animals all your life you learn how.)

http://www.bulletproofme.com/



Gorelicks, how, the heck, are you! ;)