New 5.7x28 pistol [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Sully:vz-58
03-10-2012, 15:06
I do not want to discuss why the 5.7 round is not an effective round or why there is no need for another 5.7 pistol.

Rather, Why is there no other gun makers producing a 5.7 pistol?

I for one would love to have an affordable 5.7 carry gun.

MrMurphy
03-10-2012, 15:15
Because it's an expensive fairly useless round that no one with a choice generally uses except in very limited roles when backed up by heavier weapons.

Manufacturers won't make what won't sell.

Gregg702
03-10-2012, 15:26
The 5.7 cartridge is also longer than most pistol cartridges, and that means the pistol grip will be long.

93GT
03-10-2012, 15:38
I would buy one for a fun gun if there was something reliable in the 5-600 dollar range. There is no way in hell I am dropping a grand for something that doesn't fill a niche in my collection though.

DAIadvisor
03-10-2012, 16:27
5.7 is a proprietary AP round that can't be bought by civilians. Rounds that you can buy are neutered, so there's no point in using them where cheaper, more effective pistol rounds are available.

banger
03-10-2012, 17:47
5.7 is a proprietary AP round that can't be bought by civilians. Rounds that you can buy are neutered, so there's no point in using them where cheaper, more effective pistol rounds are available.


This^^^^

Outside of a single "boutique" manufacturer (Elite Ammunition), the only game in town is F.N. themselves.

F.N. has already demonstrated a reluctance to provide effective ammo.

Why buy into the problem.

Find another caliber that is more effective and be happy.

joecoastie
03-10-2012, 18:05
Don't know anything about it, not exactly a carry gun either.
https://www.masterpiecearms.com/products.php?cat=57

bac1023
03-10-2012, 18:18
Well, its a fun round to shoot. :supergrin:

xmanhockey7
03-10-2012, 18:26
I personally can't shoot the gun well.

glock2740
03-10-2012, 18:40
I would buy one for a fun gun if there was something reliable in the 5-600 dollar range. There is no way in hell I am dropping a grand for something that doesn't fill a niche in my collection though.
Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. :thumbsup:

TSAX
03-10-2012, 18:46
I never liked the pistol but these are lots of fun


http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0016mb.png



http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/s/FNM0032sb.png (http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?gid=FNG007&fid=FNF012&mid=FNM0032) (http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?gid=FNG007&fid=FNF012&mid=FNM0032)








:50cal:

Trigger Finger
03-10-2012, 19:09
I never liked the pistol but these are lots of fun


http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/m/FNM0016mb.png



http://www.fnhusa.com/support/images/dynamic/s/FNM0032sb.png (http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?gid=FNG007&fid=FNF012&mid=FNM0032)








:50cal:


These are allot of fun and I shoot the 16 inch barreled version great up to about 125 yards. But with the pistol, if you used it for House Protection and had to actually fire it indoors I think you would be bleeding from the ears after you put the bad guy down. Extremely loud indoors with the pistol!

The Pirate
03-10-2012, 21:13
At this point I think it has more advantages in the rifle than the pistol. I wouldn't mind seeing a few more well thought out shoulder fired weapons chambered in the round.


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M2 Carbine
03-10-2012, 21:27
I have the FN pistol and would also like to get other guns chambered in the round.

Savage shows they make a bolt action (which I would buy) but I've never seen one and the local gun store can't find one.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/22/savage-bolt-action-chambered-in-fn-5-7x28mm/



.

racer88
03-10-2012, 21:46
Funny... whenever anyone mentions the Five-seveN, the haters come out and go to great lengths to disparage a gun they've likely never owned or even fired.

I like having one in my FNH collection. The PS90 is on my short list.

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/FNH-Family.jpg


http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/FN-Five-seveN_0004.jpg

TSAX
03-10-2012, 22:07
Funny... whenever anyone mentions the Five-seveN, the haters come out and go to great lengths to disparage a gun they've likely never owned or even fired.

I like having one in my FNH collection. The PS90 is on my short list.

http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/FNH-Family.jpg


http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/FN-Five-seveN_0004.jpg


Its ok there are haters with just about every gun. Cool collection, Ive always wanted to try out the 2000





:50cal:

ChicagoZman
03-10-2012, 22:18
I would not consider it for carry for the reasons already stated. I do however, enjoy shooting the gun and its partner PS-90. Accurate, very little recoil and just plain fun.

GVFlyer
03-11-2012, 01:29
I buy ammo from these guys.

http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/item/8450665/9240445.htm

Deanster
03-11-2012, 02:31
I do not want to discuss why the 5.7 round is not an effective round or why there is no need for another 5.7 pistol.

Rather, Why is there no other gun makers producing a 5.7 pistol?

I for one would love to have an affordable 5.7 carry gun.

You may not want to discuss it, but the answers are in your post.

Many/most potential buyers appear to believe that the 5.7 round is not an effective round, and either separately or as a result, potential manufacturers have concluded that there is no need for another 5.7 pistol.

All of which explains why there are no other gun makers producing a 5.7 pistol.

:whistling: :supergrin: :wavey:

crazymoose
03-11-2012, 02:47
Also, because of the length of the cartridge, there aren't any existing pistols out there to handle the round that would make for any easy conversion. Manufacturers would be looking at a ground-up design with a long action and large mag well. There just is not a ton of demand to justify those expenses.

NeverMore1701
03-11-2012, 03:19
I'd really like an SBR'd PS90 some day, just really cool little gun.

turbobrick
03-11-2012, 03:53
I have the FN pistol and would also would like to get other guns chambered in the round.

Savage shows they make a bolt action (which I would buy) but I've never seen one and the local gun store can't find one.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/22/savage-bolt-action-chambered-in-fn-5-7x28mm/

FN themselves announced 3 SHOT shows ago that they would have a 5.7x28 bolt gun out soon, but that obviously never happened. Then a few months ago Savage announced theirs, but it appears they abandoned it in favor of 17 Hornet. When FN failed to deliver I decided to build my own, man do I love that gun.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a62/242brick/rifle/70213.jpg

BobbyT
03-11-2012, 03:54
It's called the KelTec PMR-30.

And instead of costing 60-120 cents per proprietary round, the .22 Mag this one eats costs 20-25.

Narkcop
03-11-2012, 05:59
The 5.7 is impressive and I have no doubt more than adequate for self defense even with the civilian rounds. Many hogs & deer have been killed with the standard SS-197 round. I have a 5.7 pistol & a PMR-30 .22 magnum.

I really like my PMR and it is cheaper to shoot but the .22 mag 40 grain velocity is around 1300 fps and the 5.7 SS-197 40 grain is around 1700 fps. Which one you think would hit harder?

bac1023
03-11-2012, 06:14
Its a shame it doesn't get much love, because I think its a cool pistol for sure. :cool:

Guns don't have to fill niches for me to own them. There's no way to have an extensive collection if everything has to fill a certain niche or void.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2103.jpg

oldnoob
03-11-2012, 10:05
I had shot it (5.7 pistol) twice and every time it makes me ask myself why I haven't had one in my safe. People need to shoot one before they make any commend on it. Just by handle it in the gun shop, it just feel like another light weight cheap poly frame pistol. But it amaze me how easy the recoil, and how accurate it was.

Even though many people cry about its ammo cost, it's still cheaper than 357sig. I think it's a very good choice for weaker shooter as HD/SD round. And if any other manufacturer will pick up this round and remarket it as an effective choice for shooters that prefer lower recoil HD/SD round. It might be the next big hit on the market.

AK_Stick
03-11-2012, 12:08
I think the biggest reason is they're not selling

The 5.7 is the defenition of niche role firearm. Aside from the small market in the tactical world, and shooters who just want something cool/different it doesn't really have anything going for it.

It's not a good SD caliber, unless your primary concern is soft armor equipped bad guys.

So really for the firearms companies, where's the draw to design/put out a firearm that wont sell to anything more than a niche market?

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 12:15
I think the biggest reason is they're not selling

The 5.7 is the defenition of niche role firearm. Aside from the small market in the tactical world, and shooters who just want something cool/different it doesn't really have anything going for it.

It's not a good SD caliber, unless your primary concern is soft armor equipped bad guys.

So really for the firearms companies, where's the draw to design/put out a firearm that wont sell to anything more than a niche market?

Except the civilian-market available ammo won't penetrate. The rare boxes of the good stuff that pop up for sale got for completely ridiculous prices - $5 a round, anyone? No thanks.

If I want something to punch through soft armor, I'll stick to 5.56.

Side note: Taking deer and hogs with 5.7? :faint:

racer88
03-11-2012, 12:19
It's called the KelTec PMR-30.

And instead of costing 60-120 cents per proprietary round, the .22 Mag this one eats costs 20-25.

HA! I don't know where you're getting those numbers. I've paid anywhere from $17 - $20 for box of 50 rounds of 5.7. I've never paid more than $20. So, at the most, I've paid 40 cents a round... quite a bit less than your 60 - 120.

So, my 5.7 ammo costs are in line with what I pay for .40 and .45.

Narkcop
03-11-2012, 17:46
Except the civilian-market available ammo won't penetrate. The rare boxes of the good stuff that pop up for sale got for completely ridiculous prices - $5 a round, anyone? No thanks.

If I want something to punch through soft armor, I'll stick to 5.56.

Side note: Taking deer and hogs with 5.7? :faint:

I'm guessing you've never shot a 57 pistol or PS90.:faint:
EA ammo is equal to or surpasses ANY LEO round. The HOG below was shot with the weak SS-197.
http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8598

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 18:03
I'm guessing you've never shot a 57 pistol or PS90.:faint:
EA ammo is equal to or surpasses ANY LEO round. The HOG below was shot with the weak SS-197.
http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=8598

I've shot a couple of PS90s - one suppressed, one not. 5.56 is marginal for deer and hogs, IMO, depending on size. 5.7 carries a lot less energy than a quality 5.56 round does, especially from a 16" or longer barrel. The photo you looked too looked a lot like a finishing shot to the head after the animal was already down or otherwise contained.

G31
03-11-2012, 18:05
Without getting into a big discussion on effectiveness, I would bet there are no other 5.7mm pistols for the following reasons (at least):

hard-to-find, expensive ammunition,
less effective than most other defensive pistol rounds,
very large grip required.

I'm sure these have all been discussed already, among other issues. I personally think the .45 GAP would be more popular with most people than the 5.7x28. I am never against any gun/ammo combo, and feel everything has a place, but in the practical world, it doesn't have enough going for it.

racer88
03-11-2012, 18:40
Without getting into a big discussion on effectiveness, I would bet there are no other 5.7mm pistols for the following reasons (at least):

hard-to-find, expensive ammunition,
less effective than most other defensive pistol rounds,
very large grip required.



Ammo is EASY to find and about the same cost as .45-ACP.

"Very large grip?" It's a differently shaped grip. But, I'm not a big guy (size 7-1/2 or Medium gloves), and I have no trouble at all. In fact, my wife (smaller hands than mine) loves shooting the Five-seveN pistol.

Ruggles
03-11-2012, 18:58
The .5.7mm sure draws a lot of hate, always has on here it seems. The same old tired arguments brought out that continue to be proven false :) The round is a great round to shoot, has a practical real world use and the guns that fire it are top notch. Count me as a fan.

RedHaze
03-11-2012, 19:15
Fred Craig's .22 Micro Mag puts out a solid 200-300fps more than the 5.7x28 from a handgun...

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/rwb1500/328e4071.jpg?t=1318000038
http://pictures.gunauction.com/4539074207/10705480/img_1237.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

And it's easy to come by brass for reloading. (cut down and neck .223/5.56 brass)

And it comes with a 9mm barrel. So when you're all out of ammo, you can just swap barrels and run it as a 9mm.

And it's a 1911 platform.

And it's cheaper than a FN.

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 19:17
Ammo is EASY to find and about the same cost as .45-ACP.

"Very large grip?" It's a differently shaped grip. But, I'm not a big guy (size 7-1/2 or Medium gloves), and I have no trouble at all. In fact, my wife (smaller hands than mine) loves shooting the Five-seveN pistol.

I'm probably bigger than you by a healthy margin (Large to XL gloves), and the FS grip is too darn long (front to rear) for me to hold comfortably. My girlfriend is pretty tall as well, with long and thin hands to match, and she doesn't think it's comfortable either. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

mcole
03-11-2012, 19:43
there are other cartridge suppliers besides elite ammunition. i use custom loaded cartridges which run 2300 fps to 2350 fps with a 30 grain hollow point bullet which begins to tumble within 2" to 3" after penetration. consistently produces a 4" wound channel. impacted bone is virtually exploded sending shards everywhere.
i like 20 rounds of lite weight carry. mcole

racer88
03-11-2012, 20:25
I'm probably bigger than you by a healthy margin (Large to XL gloves), and the FS grip is too darn long (front to rear) for me to hold comfortably. My girlfriend is pretty tall as well, with long and thin hands to match, and she doesn't think it's comfortable either. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

True. As I've perused these forums for many years, I have just not found myself to be as sensitive to various grips (size and angles) or even triggers as many report. At the range, I can go from firing and putting down a 1911 and picking up a Glock and not miss a beat. Just doesn't seem to bother me nor affect my shooting.

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 20:59
True. As I've perused these forums for many years, I have just not found myself to be as sensitive to various grips (size and angles) or even triggers as many report. At the range, I can go from firing and putting down a 1911 and picking up a Glock and not miss a beat. Just doesn't seem to bother me nor affect my shooting.

I've also found the mid-frame (19/23/32) Glocks don't work for me very well, either, as the finger grooves and backstrap just feel like crap to me. The full frame Glocks (17, etc) fit my hands a LOT better, though. :dunno:

crazymoose
03-11-2012, 23:15
Fred Craig's .22 Micro Mag puts out a solid 200-300fps more than the 5.7x28 from a handgun...

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/rwb1500/328e4071.jpg?t=1318000038
http://pictures.gunauction.com/4539074207/10705480/img_1237.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

And it's easy to come by brass for reloading. (cut down and neck .223/5.56 brass)

And it comes with a 9mm barrel. So when you're all out of ammo, you can just swap barrels and run it as a 9mm.

And it's a 1911 platform.

And it's cheaper than a FN.

Yep. I have one of these and I love it. Mainly bought it for the 9mm conversion, but the .22 TCM is fun, and has an edge on the 5.7 in terms of power.

M2 Carbine
03-12-2012, 07:45
Fred Craig's .22 Micro Mag puts out a solid 200-300fps more than the 5.7x28 from a handgun...

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/rwb1500/328e4071.jpg?t=1318000038
http://pictures.gunauction.com/4539074207/10705480/img_1237.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

And it's easy to come by brass for reloading. (cut down and neck .223/5.56 brass)

And it comes with a 9mm barrel. So when you're all out of ammo, you can just swap barrels and run it as a 9mm.

And it's a 1911 platform.

And it's cheaper than a FN.

How much and were can I get one.:)

Travclem
03-12-2012, 08:22
I had a FN 5.7 and it was a really neat gun. It just wasn't for me. I killed a few trapped hogs with it and it really was no more impressive than a .22 for that job. It was very loud and pretty expensive to shoot. After I weighed my options, I traded it for a S&W 629 +cash which I then traded for a Scoped Ruger Redhawk in .44mag and never looked back. It is a cool gun that fills a niche, just not for me.

PlasticGuy
03-12-2012, 15:53
I tried to hate the 5.7x28 cartridge. I really did. Then I got a Five seveN in trade, and liked it. My wife tried it, and "confiscated" it. I bought another so I could keep shooting one. Then I added a PS90, which my wife also "confiscated". Now I need another.

The more I use them, the more I like them. They tear up anything filled with liquid to a degree that is truly impressive. They penetrate soft and hard armor as well or better than any other handgun cartridge. Accuracy is so good it's scary, and holds out to double what I would try with most handguns.

The complaints I typically hear are about armor penetration and/or ammo cost. Waterproof defensive grade ammo from FN costs the same as target ammo for the .45 ACP. The 55 grain fmj from Elite ammo can penetrate soft armor that would stop any normal handgun round. The only other complaint I hear is that the gun is large. I can't figure out who is spreading these rumors. The trigger reach is shorter than the Glock 17. If that bothers you, then your options are very limited.

WoodenPlank
03-12-2012, 16:18
I tried to hate the 5.7x28 cartridge. I really did. Then I got a Five seveN in trade, and liked it. My wife tried it, and "confiscated" it. I bought another so I could keep shooting one. Then I added a PS90, which my wife also "confiscated". Now I need another.

The more I use them, the more I like them. They tear up anything filled with liquid to a degree that is truly impressive. They penetrate soft and hard armor as well or better than any other handgun cartridge. Accuracy is so good it's scary, and holds out to double what I would try with most handguns.

The complaints I typically hear are about armor penetration and/or ammo cost. Waterproof defensive grade ammo from FN costs the same as target ammo for the .45 ACP. The 55 grain fmj from Elite ammo can penetrate soft armor that would stop any normal handgun round. The only other complaint I hear is that the gun is large. I can't figure out who is spreading these rumors. The trigger reach is shorter than the Glock 17. If that bothers you, then your options are very limited.

Most 5.7 loads will not penetrate soft armor. NONE of them will penetrate rifle plates.

Also, there are plenty of handgun rounds that will penetrate soft armor, simply because they exceed the rating of that armor.

crazymoose
03-12-2012, 16:49
How much and were can I get one.:)

I got mine off of gunbroker for about $550. Centerfire Systems carries them but they're out of stock at the moment. That price includes a 9x19 conversion barrel, too. They take Para P18 mags, which aren't too hard to find and are fairly cheap compared to other hi-cap 1911 mags.

glocked1
03-12-2012, 18:45
Just picked up an AR57...it is fun.

RedHaze
03-12-2012, 19:51
How much and were can I get one.:)

Be sure and give us a write up if and when you pick one up M2. :wavey:

Always enjoy reading your write ups. And you usually have some purdy good pictures to boot!


The .22 micro mag is on my list, but I got lots in front of it...

NeverMore1701
03-12-2012, 20:17
How much and were can I get one.:)

I think RIA is working on a similar round.

M2 Carbine
03-12-2012, 20:28
Centerfire Systems carries them but they're out of stock at the moment.
Thanks. I'll be looking.


I wish someone would make a gun for the 5.7 Johnson (Spitfire) besides the M1 Carbine.
I have the Carbine. 3,000 FPS with a 40 grain bullet.

5.7 Johnson on the left. 5.7 FN center and right.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/FN57and57Johnson.jpg

Haldor
03-12-2012, 20:49
Also, because of the length of the cartridge, there aren't any existing pistols out there to handle the round that would make for any easy conversion. Manufacturers would be looking at a ground-up design with a long action and large mag well. There just is not a ton of demand to justify those expenses.

I'll bet a CZ52 could be converted to 5.7x28. The CZ52 has a very strong action and should have no problem dealing with the 5.7 chamber pressure. 5.7 is only slightly longer than the 7.62x25. A new bolt, a new barrel, and you should be able to make it work. Probably would end up needing a custom magazine as well to ensure proper feeding reliability.

PlasticGuy
03-13-2012, 01:19
Most 5.7 loads will not penetrate soft armor. NONE of them will penetrate rifle plates.

Also, there are plenty of handgun rounds that will penetrate soft armor, simply because they exceed the rating of that armor.
Seems like you're looking pretty hard for reasons to dislike the Five seveN. Make no mistake, I'm not saying it's the answer to all the world's problems. I do think it fills a real niche though, and the more I use it the more I have learned to respect with the gun and cartridge will do.

It won't penetrate rifle rated armor? Neither will rifles. That's kinda the point. :whistling:

And no, "plenty of handgun rounds" will not penetrate currently issued soft body armor. Maybe if you're talking about the cheapest and thinnest vests you can find, but not the levels most commonly issued to LE. The big exception is the 7.62x25, but that's about it for commonly encountered handguns and cartridges. Again, unless you stack the deck in your favor by looking at vests with lower ratings than what LE commonly uses, or use exotic ammo.

WoodenPlank
03-13-2012, 01:38
Seems like you're looking pretty hard for reasons to dislike the Five seveN. Make no mistake, I'm not saying it's the answer to all the world's problems. I do think it fills a real niche though, and the more I use it the more I have learned to respect with the gun and cartridge will do.

It won't penetrate rifle rated armor? Neither will rifles. That's kinda the point. :whistling:

And no, "plenty of handgun rounds" will not penetrate currently issued soft body armor. Maybe if you're talking about the cheapest and thinnest vests you can find, but not the levels most commonly issued to LE. The big exception is the 7.62x25, but that's about it for commonly encountered handguns and cartridges. Again, unless you stack the deck in your favor by looking at vests with lower ratings than what LE commonly uses, or use exotic ammo.

You implied earlier in the thread that 5.7 was capable of penetrating hard armor, when it is not.

Look up some actual stats on Level IIa and IIIa soft armor some time. You'd be surprised what will defeat them. Many of the hotter revolver cartridges far outclass what even higher end IIIa is rated to handle. In order to try to keep the thread from being locked, I will not provide specifics, however.
Plus, most cops I know (especially in smaller jurisdictions) are only issued IIa vests, and IIa seems to be a lot more common on the civilian market (likely due to cost).

5.7, to me, looks too much like a very anemic 5.56 being fired from a pistol. There's just not enough bullet weight OR velocity there to make me think it's adequate for SD/HD in a pistol platform. IMO, the only place it shines is in a compact, PDW platform with full auto capability.

For a handgun, 9mm and 357SIG are more than capable of filling my needs. If I needed something that will defeat soft armor, that's what 5.56 is for.

PlasticGuy
03-13-2012, 03:04
You implied earlier in the thread that 5.7 was capable of penetrating hard armor, when it is not.

Look up some actual stats on Level IIa and IIIa soft armor some time. You'd be surprised what will defeat them. Many of the hotter revolver cartridges far outclass what even higher end IIIa is rated to handle. In order to try to keep the thread from being locked, I will not provide specifics, however.
Plus, most cops I know (especially in smaller jurisdictions) are only issued IIa vests, and IIa seems to be a lot more common on the civilian market (likely due to cost).

5.7, to me, looks too much like a very anemic 5.56 being fired from a pistol. There's just not enough bullet weight OR velocity there to make me think it's adequate for SD/HD in a pistol platform. IMO, the only place it shines is in a compact, PDW platform with full auto capability.

For a handgun, 9mm and 357SIG are more than capable of filling my needs. If I needed something that will defeat soft armor, that's what 5.56 is for.
I spent 4 years buying arms and armor for an armored transport company, training their employees, and testing bullet resistant materials. I also had volumes of FBI and other LE and Military testing data made available to me. While you can never try every combination, I have a very good knowledge base regarding which cartridges will penetrate which barriers.

I wrote that the 5.7 will penetrate hard armor as well as or better than any other handgun round. This is true. Rifle rated ceramic plates will stop it dead. Handgun rated steel or titanium plates will not stop the better loads. I know because I tried. The 5.7 with the right load will penetrate things that very few other handguns can.

I have been issued three different bullet resistant vests in the 10 years before taking my current position in nuclear security. While I can't discuss any of my current issued gear, the three vests I was issued before this were all IIIa. That is the standard for LE and high end security in the four states I have worked in, and is most represented in surplus sold to civilians here. It sounds like your area is different, because I have not seen many IIa vests here.

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. The 5.7 is an extreme cartridge, with some excellent strengths but also with some very real weaknesses. It is not for everyone, and my intention is not to "convert" anybody. I carry a 9mm or .45 a lot more than I carry my Five seveN. However, I do believe that the 5.7 is a very misunderstood and underrated cartridge in this country. There are a lot of assumptions made about it that the facts do not support, and my intention was simply to address a few of them.

racer88
03-13-2012, 11:18
Maybe I'm the odd man out... but, I'm just not envisioning a situation where I'll need to "defeat body armor."

I got the 5.7 for a couple of reasons. First and foremost: I wanted it (and I could). That's good enough reason, eh? :)

The 2nd reason was for my wife as a HD pistol. She's a bit recoil-sensitive. She can fire the 5.7 quite well (and even enjoys it). If a BG comes in the house, she'll have 20 rounds available to her.... and to deliver to him. I'd rather her land multiple 5.7 rounds than miss with one .45-ACP and have to recover to aim the next round... if he doesn't get to her first.

It is amusing how these 5.7 threads always follow the same pattern. It just would never occur to me to tell another guy how his gun just sucks (because of my strongly-held opinions). If I don't like it, I don't buy it. But, I won't go to great efforts to convince the proud owner of any particular item or gun that he or she made a big mistake.

It's just kinda funny how certain guns precipitate the "hate-fests." Live and let live, I say. I love all my FNH guns, BECAUSE they are different. The 5.7 pistol is just COOL. It's fun. And, I surely would not want to be on the receiving end of it. It's not my primary HD pistol. But, it will do for my wife. My primary HD pistol is the FNP-45 Tactical. (Before that it was a G23.) I just love it. It's a beast, but it shoots nice and smooth. No way my wife would be comfortable with it, though.

Deanster
03-13-2012, 17:13
I enjoyed shooting the PS90, and wouldn't mind owning one as an HD weapon, though the extra-long barrel defeats a lot of the advantages of the small package.

I don't hate the 5.7 at all, but I don't end up feeling like it solves any problem I have.

Problems I have:

I need a small, but adequately powered compact defensive handgun. In a perfect world, I'd like .40 stopping power in a .380-sized package. Current solution - G26. Options under consideration - Ruger LCP

I need a quality home-defense rifle. In a perfect world, I'd have .223 stopping power in a compact and handy package. Current solution - 16" AR-15. Options under consideration - AR-15 Bullpup designs (I'd LOVE a Steyr AUG, if they could be had well below $1K), Kel Tec Sub-2000 .40 cal.

I need a full/mid-sized handgun for open carry, target shooting, etc. Current solution - Glock 21. Options under consideration - Walther P99 .40, Glock 20, Glock 23.

Everyone has different needs and requirements, but mine seem pretty typical to me.

I don't see the 5.7 pistol as a practical option for either a compact carry or full/mid-sized handgun - I'm not confident in the caliber as an SD round, as it's well on the outer edge of the light-fast argument, and I tend to prefer heavier handgun bullets.

The P-90 would be a potential fit for the compact HD rifle role, for sure. But the big advantages of the P-90 are the high-capacity magazine and the compact form factor.

The PS-90's long barrel takes away a lot of potential advantage over an AR, especially if I could find an AR bullpup design that I like at a reasonable price. And I dearly hope I never need a 50-round magazine in a home defense situation.

It just nets out to a no-win situation for the 5.7 round for me. Weird pistol round, and while it's a very reasonable bullpup round, the civilian rifle gives away an awful lot.

crazymoose
03-13-2012, 17:18
If you live in an SBR-friendly state, an AR-15 in the "Kino" configuration (think of it as a 12.5" Dissipator) is just about perfect.

Deanster
03-13-2012, 17:52
Thanks! Very cool option I hadn't seen before. That would indeed be just about perfect.

Sadly, a quick check suggests that in Washington State, SBR's are just a no-go for normal folk.

Bummer. :(

PlasticGuy
03-14-2012, 01:09
Thanks! Very cool option I hadn't seen before. That would indeed be just about perfect.

Sadly, a quick check suggests that in Washington State, SBR's are just a no-go for normal folk.

Bummer. :(
Yes and no. It is not legal to have a true sbr in Washington. However, cutting several inches off the barrel and pinning on a suppressor/silencer to replace the lost barrel length is legal. End result is the same length weapon, but quiet. Just something to consider... :whistling:

Ruggles
03-14-2012, 10:27
Maybe I'm the odd man out... but, I'm just not envisioning a situation where I'll need to "defeat body armor."

I got the 5.7 for a couple of reasons. First and foremost: I wanted it (and I could). That's good enough reason, eh? :)

The 2nd reason was for my wife as a HD pistol. She's a bit recoil-sensitive. She can fire the 5.7 quite well (and even enjoys it). If a BG comes in the house, she'll have 20 rounds available to her.... and to deliver to him. I'd rather her land multiple 5.7 rounds than miss with one .45-ACP and have to recover to aim the next round... if he doesn't get to her first.

It is amusing how these 5.7 threads always follow the same pattern. It just would never occur to me to tell another guy how his gun just sucks (because of my strongly-held opinions). If I don't like it, I don't buy it. But, I won't go to great efforts to convince the proud owner of any particular item or gun that he or she made a big mistake.

It's just kinda funny how certain guns precipitate the "hate-fests." Live and let live, I say. I love all my FNH guns, BECAUSE they are different. The 5.7 pistol is just COOL. It's fun. And, I surely would not want to be on the receiving end of it. It's not my primary HD pistol. But, it will do for my wife. My primary HD pistol is the FNP-45 Tactical. (Before that it was a G23.) I just love it. It's a beast, but it shoots nice and smooth. No way my wife would be comfortable with it, though.

You and your common sense, what is you're problem? :tongueout:

repo4sale
03-14-2012, 17:00
I buy ammo from these guys.

http://www.eliteammunition.net/catalog/item/8450665/9240445.htm

http://www.venturamunitions.com/categories/handgun/5-7-x-28-mm.html

50 cents/round and you owe me a "Monster" 32oz drink for saving you 50% of your ammo costs! I'm In So. Calif. Orange County.
My job is to buy Millions in Real Estate for under 10% of 2006 values... so bottom fishing is my profession since 1991.

arclight610
03-14-2012, 21:00
You guys definitely have it all wrong. I contacted a ballistics expert over at the Stargate forum, and here is what he says:

"The 5.7mm ap ammunition that the p90 uses really sucks, I have heard someone say that the round would not just penetrate jaffa armor but go through him and continue on through any jaffa behind him. This is rediculously innacurate, the round can only penetrate light body armor such as kevlar, the bullets would just bounce off heavy level 3 body armor, which has armor plating(made out of what I am not sure) that would deflect the bullets with ease, the wearer would barely notice he had been hit. You see the ss-190 round is extremely light (31 grains I believe, only about half that of the 5.56mm nato), so light that it's trajectory can be thrown slightly off by wind. Given it's weight, even despite the fact that it has around 2/3 the speed of a 5.56 round it does not have enough punch to penetrate a human rib(meaning that jaffa armor is next to useless) , the 9mm para round has even less ap capability than the 5.7 but will still get through a rib, how you ask, well it weighs something like 6 times as much but as for less ap capability, that can be explained by it.s size. Somebody once drew an analogy, he said that if you were wearing some heavy jeans and stabbed yourself in the leg with a pencil the lead would just break off and you'd barely notice but you would get an unpleasant surprise if you tried the same thing with a needle, since the needle has much less frontal surface area it has less to penetrate and so would punch throug much more easily. The AP 9mm has the same or more armor piercing capability than the 5.7 though. Also on ammo given the unusual magazine design the bullets in the mag may become dislodged if you drop the weapon when the mag is partially empty, leaving you with no choice but to replace the mag, in the middle of combat that is not a good thing. And the round does very little tissue damage, remember Tanith in EXODUS, he was hit once in the shoulder, he only flinched a little when hit and barely noticed the wound after that, though they would probably notice the pain of the wound more later(though not to the point of disabling them in any more than a minor way, that is they might not be able to use their arm as well and most likely not be able to fire a weapon from that shoulder), despite this the reaction Tanith showed on a whole was more or less how a regular human would react."

NeverMore1701
03-14-2012, 21:05
You guys definitely have it all wrong. I contacted a ballistics expert over at the Stargate forum, and here is what he says:

"The 5.7mm ap ammunition that the p90 uses really sucks, I have heard someone say that the round would not just penetrate jaffa armor but go through him and continue on through any jaffa behind him. This is rediculously innacurate, the round can only penetrate light body armor such as kevlar, the bullets would just bounce off heavy level 3 body armor, which has armor plating(made out of what I am not sure) that would deflect the bullets with ease, the wearer would barely notice he had been hit. You see the ss-190 round is extremely light (31 grains I believe, only about half that of the 5.56mm nato), so light that it's trajectory can be thrown slightly off by wind. Given it's weight, even despite the fact that it has around 2/3 the speed of a 5.56 round it does not have enough punch to penetrate a human rib(meaning that jaffa armor is next to useless) , the 9mm para round has even less ap capability than the 5.7 but will still get through a rib, how you ask, well it weighs something like 6 times as much but as for less ap capability, that can be explained by it.s size. Somebody once drew an analogy, he said that if you were wearing some heavy jeans and stabbed yourself in the leg with a pencil the lead would just break off and you'd barely notice but you would get an unpleasant surprise if you tried the same thing with a needle, since the needle has much less frontal surface area it has less to penetrate and so would punch throug much more easily. The AP 9mm has the same or more armor piercing capability than the 5.7 though. Also on ammo given the unusual magazine design the bullets in the mag may become dislodged if you drop the weapon when the mag is partially empty, leaving you with no choice but to replace the mag, in the middle of combat that is not a good thing. And the round does very little tissue damage, remember Tanith in EXODUS, he was hit once in the shoulder, he only flinched a little when hit and barely noticed the wound after that, though they would probably notice the pain of the wound more later(though not to the point of disabling them in any more than a minor way, that is they might not be able to use their arm as well and most likely not be able to fire a weapon from that shoulder), despite this the reaction Tanith showed on a whole was more or less how a regular human would react."

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ruggles
03-14-2012, 21:08
You guys definitely have it all wrong. I contacted a ballistics expert over at the Stargate forum, and here is what he says:

"The 5.7mm ap ammunition that the p90 uses really sucks, I have heard someone say that the round would not just penetrate jaffa armor but go through him and continue on through any jaffa behind him. This is rediculously innacurate, the round can only penetrate light body armor such as kevlar, the bullets would just bounce off heavy level 3 body armor, which has armor plating(made out of what I am not sure) that would deflect the bullets with ease, the wearer would barely notice he had been hit. You see the ss-190 round is extremely light (31 grains I believe, only about half that of the 5.56mm nato), so light that it's trajectory can be thrown slightly off by wind. Given it's weight, even despite the fact that it has around 2/3 the speed of a 5.56 round it does not have enough punch to penetrate a human rib(meaning that jaffa armor is next to useless) , the 9mm para round has even less ap capability than the 5.7 but will still get through a rib, how you ask, well it weighs something like 6 times as much but as for less ap capability, that can be explained by it.s size. Somebody once drew an analogy, he said that if you were wearing some heavy jeans and stabbed yourself in the leg with a pencil the lead would just break off and you'd barely notice but you would get an unpleasant surprise if you tried the same thing with a needle, since the needle has much less frontal surface area it has less to penetrate and so would punch throug much more easily. The AP 9mm has the same or more armor piercing capability than the 5.7 though. Also on ammo given the unusual magazine design the bullets in the mag may become dislodged if you drop the weapon when the mag is partially empty, leaving you with no choice but to replace the mag, in the middle of combat that is not a good thing. And the round does very little tissue damage, remember Tanith in EXODUS, he was hit once in the shoulder, he only flinched a little when hit and barely noticed the wound after that, though they would probably notice the pain of the wound more later(though not to the point of disabling them in any more than a minor way, that is they might not be able to use their arm as well and most likely not be able to fire a weapon from that shoulder), despite this the reaction Tanith showed on a whole was more or less how a regular human would react."

:supergrin:

Stargate FTW! Great show :wavey:

joecoastie
03-14-2012, 21:26
:supergrin:

Stargate FTW! Great show :wavey:

Carter. Super smart and good with a gun. :hearts:

NeverMore1701
03-14-2012, 21:34
Carter. Super smart and good with a gun. :hearts:

No doubt :supergrin:

Ruggles
03-14-2012, 21:36
Carter. Super smart and good with a gun. :hearts:

True :)

Not sure which SF show had the better hotties Stargate (including Atlantis) or Firefly.....poor Star Trek girls just can not hang (but again DS9 FTW!!!)

joecoastie
03-14-2012, 21:55
True :)

Not sure which SF show had the better hotties Stargate (including Atlantis) or Firefly.....poor Star Trek girls just can not hang (but again DS9 FTW!!!)

As far as I'm concerned Inara wins that contest hands down.

I also just realized that a 10/22 type carbine reworked for 5.7 would be a pretty cool little gun.

Ruggles
03-14-2012, 21:57
As far as I'm concerned Inara wins that contest hands down.

I also just realized that a 10/22 type carbine reworked for 5.7 would be a pretty cool little gun.

Can't argue with either of those statements, although River ain't far behind, maybe even ahead..... :)

NeverMore1701
03-15-2012, 06:03
Can't argue with either of those statements, although River ain't far behind, maybe even ahead..... :)

River, Kaylee, then Inara, IMO.

SC Tiger
03-15-2012, 08:18
I had a former coworker that had a weapon chambered in this round (don't know if it was a rifle or pistol) and he had a he!! of a time finding ammo. Larger gun shops may carry it but smaller ones are more likely to dedicate their shelf space to the more common rounds.

I think it's a neat round and neat concept but I just can't see spending my limited firearms budget on something like that. I can get handguns in 9mm, .40, or the lever-action 30-30 rifle I've been eyeing for less and have an easier time finding ammo.

jwhite75
03-15-2012, 08:24
its a shame it doesn't get much love, because i think its a cool pistol for sure. :cool:

Guns don't have to fill niches for me to own them. There's no way to have an extensive collection if everything has to fill a certain niche or void.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2103.jpg


^^^^^this^^^^

I_Hate_George_Lucas
03-15-2012, 09:17
These are allot of fun and I shoot the 16 inch barreled version great up to about 125 yards. But with the pistol, if you used it for House Protection and had to actually fire it indoors I think you would be bleeding from the ears after you put the bad guy down. Extremely loud indoors with the pistol!

I agree....

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/miami_jbt/100_0821.jpg

http://i995.photobucket.com/albums/af78/miami_jbt/mms102700_0.jpg

joecoastie
03-15-2012, 10:53
Can't argue with either of those statements, although River ain't far behind, maybe even ahead..... :)

River, Kaylee, then Inara, IMO.

Hmmmm, I'm going to have to politely disagree and say, Inara, Kaylee, Zoe, River. "Have you ever been with a warrior woman!?!"

NeverMore1701
03-15-2012, 12:00
Hmmmm, I'm going to have to politely disagree and say, Inara, Kaylee, Zoe, River. "Have you ever been with a warrior woman!?!"

Can't forget Saffron either :whistling:

MadMonkey
03-15-2012, 12:17
Kaylee then Inara for me. River's fivehead bothers me.

dosei
03-15-2012, 13:19
Fred Craig's .22 Micro Mag puts out a solid 200-300fps more than the 5.7x28 from a handgun...

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af282/rwb1500/328e4071.jpg?t=1318000038
http://pictures.gunauction.com/4539074207/10705480/img_1237.jpg_thumbnail0.jpg

And it's easy to come by brass for reloading. (cut down and neck .223/5.56 brass)

And it comes with a 9mm barrel. So when you're all out of ammo, you can just swap barrels and run it as a 9mm.

And it's a 1911 platform.

And it's cheaper than a FN.

How much and were can I get one.:)

http://atomitronx.com/