Glock 22 for woods defense? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ORHunter79
03-10-2012, 18:14
So I'm thinking about getting a Glock 22 for home which would double as woods defense since I already own a 27.

The worst things I have worry about are cougar, wolves and black bear in Oregon. No Brown bear that I know of.

I have a .357 mag but wouldn't mind wearing a G22 with more rounds.

I know the G20 is better, but thought the G22 would work for critters around here.

What do you think, good idea or bad idea?

Thanks.

Teecher45
03-10-2012, 18:19
.40 and black bear.
No way.
If you feel the need to pack a Glock around bear buy the 20. But I would rather have the .357 myself.

todd_g
03-10-2012, 18:24
10mm for sure.

glock2740
03-10-2012, 18:29
While I prefer a .357 Magnum or a 10mm for my woods guns (4" GP100 and G20), I wouldn't feel under gunned with a 16 rounds of .40, especially with some hot bonded rounds, such as 180gr Gold Dots. I have carried my G23 and G27 in the woods before. No mountain lions (according to Arkansas game and fish, yet they are spotted frequently) and no wolves for sure, but plenty of black bear. Two legged "critters" are most likely gonna be the most dangerous prey that you will face anyway. Besides, the .40 is alot cheaper to shoot and practice with than the .357 Mag and 10mm.

Glock40man
03-10-2012, 18:31
.40 and black bear.
No way.
If you feel the need to pack a Glock around bear buy the 20. But I would rather have the .357 myself.

:agree:

WorrGlock
03-10-2012, 18:48
Get the 40 but choose your ammo carefully keep in mind what is good for defense against two legged animals may not be ideal for four legged ones.

Bruce M
03-10-2012, 19:00
I sometimes wonder how guys managed in the woods before the 10mm was invented.

tgmr05
03-10-2012, 19:16
In the woods, that or the 357 would work. I would prefer a .44 or .45 colt, but the 40 would probably be sufficient. Makes perfect sense to match with the 27, or at least a good excuse...

ViennaGambit
03-10-2012, 19:19
I sometimes wonder how guys managed in the woods before the 10mm was invented.

Strangest thing in the world, isn't it?

The Boar Buster
03-10-2012, 19:25
I carried/hunted with a G22 for years and I killed many hogs with it, some up to 250 lbs. I used 180 gr jhps. I now carry a 30sf and I use 230 jhps. I dont think a black bear would be any harder to kill than a hog. Yes a 10mm would be better, but the .40 will get the job done. Last year I killed a 210 lb boar with my G26 using 147 gr jhps. It was just a 10 yards shot but it only took one shot. I didnt intend to kill a hog with it it was just with me when i was checking feeders and the hog offered me a shot i couldnt refuse.

MikeG36
03-10-2012, 19:39
You could always get a G20. 10mm for woods duty. Load it with hot heavy cast flat nosed bullets.

Install a .40 barrel and you have a .40 - install a .357 barrel and you have a .357

I'm pretty sure 10mm mags won't work but I know you can use the .40 S&W mags for the .357 Sig. What a combo!!

cowboy1964
03-10-2012, 19:41
A .40 downed a black bear during the Ohio wild animal escapade last October. It was a lucky brain shot though. Shot placement is everything.

ORHunter79
03-10-2012, 19:56
Thanks. What if I used the 200 gr WFNGC from double tap ammo?

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_26&products_id=210

Yes I know the 357 mag will do the job, but since 135 gr 40 ammo almost matches a 357, I figured a 200 gr would still penetrate enough.

Truth is I'm not 100% sure so that's why I'm asking.

dkf
03-10-2012, 19:59
The 135gr .40 will not match a .357mag in much of anything but numbers on paper. Carry your .357mag revolver with som hot and heavy hardcasts.

DFin
03-10-2012, 20:05
I thought the 10mm mags worked well in the G-20 with .40 or .357 SIG barrels? The mags for the G-22 & G-31 are not fat enough to lock into a G-20.

bw77
03-10-2012, 20:13
A guy I work with shot this hog as it charged him with his G23. Shot him right between the eyes . Even he admits it was a lucky shot. If he would have shot it anywhere else but right between the eyes it probably would have tore his ass up. I would have to say even after seeing this, the 40 is not an ideal woods gun. I would much rather have a .357 or 44 mag, especially in bear country.

223670

PrecisionRifleman
03-10-2012, 20:17
G20 all the way. Love my 20SF! With the 6.02 LWD barrel and full power loads (or even the stock barrel) you have a great woods gun. I like carrying the extended barrel in when hunting because of the extra velocty (about 100fps).

Apprentice
03-10-2012, 21:40
G22 and .40 will be fine for OR. Stick with 180 grain loads, maybe FMJ for the penetration. Precise hits FAST is what you would need. And esp since human predators would still be the greater threat . . .

scattershot
03-10-2012, 21:53
A .40 downed a black bear during the Ohio wild animal escapade last October. It was a lucky brain shot though. Shot placement is everything.


I just read about that in the latest issue ofmAmerican Handgunner. Sounds like a long night for those boys.

bw77
03-10-2012, 22:01
Buffalo bore makes a good .40 FMJ FN load that would do the job

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=117

PattonT
03-10-2012, 22:12
If you use Buffalo Bore ammo test it a lot. I bought some +p+ BB one time that wasnt accurate. Only one round out of 20 even made it on the paper. Nothing due to recoil as it felt the same ad standard pressure.

FLAWLS1
03-10-2012, 22:27
Not that I live in the woods, but how would a .45 ACP fair against these apex predators?

ViennaGambit
03-10-2012, 22:32
Not that I live in the woods, but how would a .45 ACP fair against these apex predators?

Its really about the velocity over bullet size with bears as the skulls and bones are much thicker as compared to humans. That is why the .357 is such a great round as you get phenomenal velocity and penetration.

Opie 1 Kenopie
03-10-2012, 22:42
OP, while the 10mm would be best, you'll be just fine with a G22 up there with the critters you listed. I've packed many a mile in the high Sierras with a G27 and felt perfectly well armed. It's the NOISE that will protect you from most black bear encounters. For those other animals, .40 will do nicely.

And watch yourself in them thar woods. I was out hiking in Oregon and a local warned me about people recently being shot and shot at by marijuana growers protecting their crop. Same thing happens down here. All the time. I'll NEVER go hiking without a decent handgun and preferably a rifle of some sort.

FARTHAMMER
03-10-2012, 22:47
I carry a G17 in bear country and I feel fine. 35 rounds(spare mag in my packs waist belt) of +p+ Ranger is plenty and if that doesn't work the Governor has it covered.

Teecher45
03-11-2012, 00:14
I sometimes wonder how guys managed in the woods before the 10mm was invented.
We used those outdated revolvers. Some of us still do.
And the real old guys will say "Rifle or 12 gauge".
OP a .22 CAN kill a bear. But if you don't shoot it with a cartridge with enough ass behind it to stop the fight now, it will probably be after he eats you.
If you decide you have to carry the .40 at least carry some bear spray.

ORHunter79
03-11-2012, 02:45
So the Jury is split on this? I was hoping for a more definite answer. Cougar are thin skinned and so are wolves so I'm sure a 40 would work especially on a pack.

Main concern with the 40 is black bear. I know to make a lot of noise, learned that when I stalked myself between a sow and her cubs while hunting. She wasn't very happy. Lol. I was able to back away slowly. Pure luck I guess. The confidence of a 30-30 aimed at her head helped. I think my heart rate was probably pushing 180.

Anyway I wouldn't want to be in that situation without enough firepower so thought the 40 would be a viable option. But seems a lot of folks think I'd be wrong?

ORHunter79
03-11-2012, 02:55
I was out hiking in Oregon and a local warned me about people recently being shot and shot at by marijuana growers protecting their crop.

LOL. Yeah some people are very sensitive about their "harvest" in these parts. 2 legged critters can be a pain as anywhere in the US.

1108VA
03-11-2012, 06:19
Check out the article in the May/June issue of American Handgunner, (The Ayoob Files). A deputy shot a black bear with his G-22 and stopped it in its tracks. It was a well placed head shot, but he was able to stop it. Winchester Ranger-T 165 Gr.

hsprincipal
03-11-2012, 06:48
How about a 21? That's what I'll be taking with me when my family goes hiking.

firefighter4215
03-11-2012, 07:06
I have a G22, and since I don't have the extra funds to purchase something with some more oomph, that's what I carry. It was purchased for home defense, not woods defense. I handloaded some 180 grain fmj and XTPs going over 1,100 fps, so it's close to weak 10mm loads. If I was buying a gun intending to carry it in the woods, a 10mm or even a 44 mag would be a better choice. The 10 would probably fill the role of home defense/two legged defense better than the 44 or a 357, just because of capacity and ease of reloading. Just my $.02. If you're stuck on .40 look at the G35 for the longer barrel. That should get slightly more velocity.


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Officer's Match
03-11-2012, 08:59
I just read about that in the latest issue ofmAmerican Handgunner. Sounds like a long night for those boys.

I have a friend who was on scene. Very bad, and tells a very different story than the published ones - not good.

If velocity is the answer here, wouldn't a 357 sig conversion barrel and appropriate ammo seem a decent alternative?

ViennaGambit
03-11-2012, 12:19
So the Jury is split on this? I was hoping for a more definite answer. Cougar are thin skinned and so are wolves so I'm sure a 40 would work especially on a pack.

Main concern with the 40 is black bear. I know to make a lot of noise, learned that when I stalked myself between a sow and her cubs while hunting. She wasn't very happy. Lol. I was able to back away slowly. Pure luck I guess. The confidence of a 30-30 aimed at her head helped. I think my heart rate was probably pushing 180.

Anyway I wouldn't want to be in that situation without enough firepower so thought the 40 would be a viable option. But seems a lot of folks think I'd be wrong?


Heres the deal...

Given the choice, most people would always choose something bigger for bear.

Do people usually buy .40, 9mm or .45 as a dedicated woods gun? No.

Do people usually buy .357mag, 10mm and .44mag as woods guns. Yes.

Is .40 ideal for Blackies? No.

Is it better than 9mm and .45? I would argue that with the right load, yes.

Are there better options? Yes - there always is.

Will it do the job if you do yours? Probably.

There are just so many variables that its hard to give a solid answer so you need to just look at the facts.

I would say this: since this isn't about a gun you already own, buy the gun you want and carry bear spray. Bear spray is very very effective for blackies and chances are you will not even have an issue to begin with - black bears are pretty timid and will run if you give them a chance and fair warning.

But, I do not know you - if you are one of those people who will just doubt themselves into trouble and second guess your purchase a lot, you should get a handgun that will remove all doubt if it is enough gun. I think your .357mag is enough gun - and a great choice - or if you want something new, a Glock 20 in 10mm will do the job if you have enough time and skill to get off a good shot.

Another option if you are really lacking confidence in the .40sw, carry your 30-30 along with the G22.

When I lived in upstate NY in the Catskills, most everyone JUST carried spray when hiking - thats just what you did and it worked. With that said, I also carried a S&W 686 Plus with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hard cast flat nose. I had 3 Blackie sightings and all ended in them running off. All my friends who saw Blackies had the same results. Everyone was always more worried about meth heads in the woods.

Again, If you will not have the confidence in the .40, I would pass and get something larger. It will do the job if you do yours for black bear.

.

G36's Rule
03-11-2012, 12:37
Its really about the velocity over bullet size with bears as the skulls and bones are much thicker as compared to humans. That is why the .357 is such a great round as you get phenomenal velocity and penetration.

Just about 180 degrees out from reality.

On soft targets like animals and humans, your heavier slower projectiles usually do better at deeper penetration. Your faster rounds like the 125gr. 357 really suck at penetration on animals. They do better than the heavy slow bullets on harder targets like car doors and windows though.

If you want to carry the 357 mag you should be using 158gr.-180gr. bullets. Better penetration and tougher bullets.

Factory loadings of the 40S&W and the 10mm aren't that different, so I'm not sure how the 10 got such a rep. Yeah, you can load it up substantially, but you either have to reload or buy from custom loaders who charge a small fortune.

Personally I would have no problem carrying a 22 or a 21 in the woods in the OP's area.

MikeG36
03-11-2012, 12:50
When I was up in Alaska a couple years ago, this badgirl snuk up on me when I was taking this picture (below). No time to do anything. Luckily she decided to run off. If she was a brown bear, I would have been dinner for sure.

If you are in bear country carry a .44Mag or better if you can. I'd feel better with a 10mm and hot hardcast flat nosed rounds than I would with a .40S&W or a .357Sig. There was a case where a ranger was being mauled by a bear he shot it repeatedly with his .357Mag but the bear's skull was too thick. He took it with his last shot into the bear's mouth. Anything is better than nothing but the bigger the caliber the better when dealing with bears.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/Bear_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/Mike16610/Reflections_2.jpg

scattershot
03-11-2012, 13:00
You will read of successes with the.22 LR, and failures with the .44 Mag. Neither is as good as a rifle or a shotgun with slugs. Buy what you like and can shoot well. Personally, I think black bears are way down on the list of things you need to worry about in the woods.

ORHunter79
03-11-2012, 13:49
Thanks for all the advice.

PattonT
03-11-2012, 15:18
Well, I'm hearing lots of reports out of bear country that 10mm is getting a strong following in the wilderness. A old timer that carried a 44mag is bragging about how much quicker he can accurately empty a 10mm vs his 44mag. Bottom line is a handgun is a last resort, not a answer. Carry the biggest round with the most capacity that you shoot well. Avoid bears if you can. In Alaska bear spray is what most carry and not a handgun.

xmanhockey7
03-11-2012, 15:34
I read a story about a guy who used a G23 to stop a bear. Took 6 well placed shots though. If I were you I'd go with a G20 instead.

ScottieG59
03-11-2012, 16:13
I wonder how I ever grew up in the mountains in Northeastern PA. From the time I was a very small big, I would hike in the woods, though sometimes accompanied by one of our dogs. We had many black bear in the area and I have been to the most remote parts of the woods and mountains and back. Of course, we had copperhead and rattlesnake. The only aggressive critters I ever saw were harmless water snakes, but they did act tough.

Overall, the greatest dangers I found in the woods was quicksand. The first time I stepped into it, I was maybe 7 or 8. I did not know what was up expect that I was sinking and wanted to get out. I grabbed some low tree branches and pulled myself out. There were other times the quicksand was like walking across a water bed. At the time, I did not fully appreciate that these were near death experiences.

In all the years in the woods, I never saw a black bear. I am sure they saw me and just kept low and out of the way. I am sure my dog would have seen them if they were around when he was with me. My dog was fearless and extremely protective of me.

Eventually, I did start to carry a handgun in the woods. Today, I would feel find with my Glock 20. The big change is that I am more situation ally aware.

ADK_40GLKr
03-11-2012, 17:23
I sometimes wonder how guys managed in the woods before the 10mm was invented.

.44mag carbine? :wavey:

Remington 870
03-11-2012, 17:59
glock 20 sf all day!

mrsurfboard
03-11-2012, 18:04
I carry a G17 in bear country and I feel fine. 35 rounds(spare mag in my packs waist belt) of +p+ Ranger is plenty and if that doesn't work the Governor has it covered.

:rofl:

9mm vs bear, bear wins every time.

Teecher45
03-11-2012, 20:54
:rofl:

9mm vs bear, bear wins every time.
Yep. If a bear is coming at you you might get 1 to 3 shots off before it is on you.
You may have the opportunity to get a few more off from under it. Another reason for the revolver is the slide cannot get jammed between the ground and you or the bear and malfunction.
Some people will tell you to do what you want because the chances of ever needing it against a bear are very low. So are the chances I will ever need to use my CC weapon. So should I stop carrying it?
I'm not going to because I would never forgive myself if something did happen. Just something to think about, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

kimber6
03-11-2012, 22:28
Just because somebody can make an excellent shot once on a Black bear does not mean you should trust your life to the same caliber he used. If you are serious about protecting yourself in the woods, buy a caliber made for that purpose. A 10mm would be a good option all around as stated. A .44 would be the most widely accepted option for general woods carry.

RedHaze
03-11-2012, 22:43
Boy, I wish I could of found those voracious black bears when I lived in oregon. All the ones I ever saw turned tail and took off like bats out of hell if they spotted you.

If I actually thought I'd be shooting at a bear with a G22. I'd load it up with these, or personal reloaded equivalent. Definitely want to insure they feed well though...

200gr. WFNGC
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/images/40sw%20200BTB.JPG

ORHunter79
03-11-2012, 23:15
Boy, I wish I could of found those voracious black bears when I lived in oregon. All the ones I ever saw turned tail and took off like bats out of hell if they spotted you.
]

Heck yeah. They are 15 feet tall and weigh 1500 lbs up here now. LOL

On a serious note, I know how black bears usually act. Then there are times when they are "out of character". That's why wanted to know what folks thought about the 40 for woods carry.

Guess I'll stick to my 357 mag.

EL COLONEL
03-12-2012, 19:43
Get u a ruger Alaskan 454 ... :faint: