Eotech;s customer service is top notch [Archive] - Glock Talk

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farmer2
03-10-2012, 20:30
I know optics are a popular topic in this sub-forum so I am posting this here. I recently purchased an Eotech 516 from a board member. The site was supposedly in perfect working order. However, In bright light it faded out totally and there were dead spots in the FOV. I contacted Eotech through their online repair service. Two hours following my inquiry, I received an email from their service department informing me that it would be a "no charge" repair and to send it in. I sent it on Feb 23 and they received it on Feb 27. On March 9th I received my repaired optic in perfect working condition (14 business days). I know battery life is an issue that some people can't get passed. However, if you can, it is great to know Eotech is a company that thoroughly supports their product. I was really impressed and will be a lifelong customer.


Farmer2

TSAX
03-10-2012, 20:38
Thats cool, its always good to hear companies taking care of people. Springfield Armory has always taken care of me really well when I had a few issues.






:50cal:

themighty9mm
03-10-2012, 22:34
I have been planning on getting either an eotech or aimpoint, and been on the fence the last week or so asto what to get. I have playd with an eotech. Loved the reticle. I have played with similar tube type red dots in the past. They work but not as fond of the reticle. The battery life is a huge bonus but the reticle keeps me bouncing back and forth.... On to the point. This is not the only post where I have read about great CS from eotech. Its posts like this that push me closer and closer to eotech.

WoodenPlank
03-10-2012, 22:53
I have been planning on getting either an eotech or aimpoint, and been on the fence the last week or so asto what to get. I have playd with an eotech. Loved the reticle. I have played with similar tube type red dots in the past. They work but not as fond of the reticle. The battery life is a huge bonus but the reticle keeps me bouncing back and forth.... On to the point. This is not the only post where I have read about great CS from eotech. Its posts like this that push me closer and closer to eotech.

I've never heard of complaints from Aimpoint's CS, either. Then again, it's pretty rare to hear of anyone needing to seen an Aimpoint in for repair, either.

themighty9mm
03-10-2012, 23:10
I've never heard of complaints from Aimpoint's CS, either. Then again, it's pretty rare to hear of anyone needing to seen an Aimpoint in for repair, either.
You have a good point, but the larger window and circle dot reticle are something I strongly desire. Then again so it durability and battery life. I want the best of both worlds. Aimpoint and eotech need to make a combined effort.

Any clue what makes an aimpoint more durable? Was reading eotech site and read something about their electronics being housed in fitted plastic or some such jazz

WoodenPlank
03-10-2012, 23:12
You have a good point, but the larger window and circle dot reticle are something I strongly desire. Then again so it durability and battery life. I want the best of both worlds. Aimpoint and eotech need to make a combined effort.

Any clue what makes an aimpoint more durable? Was reading eotech site and read something about their electronics being housed in fitted plastic or some such jazz

Also, I'd imagine the Aimpoint uses a smaller, simpler emitter due to the smaller and simpler dot. That's probably a big part of the battery life difference, too.

Jack Black
03-10-2012, 23:14
In all the years I've been reading gun forums, I'm not sure I've ever read about a problem with an Aimpoint. If I have, they've been so few that I don't recall them. I read about problems with EOTech all the time.

farmer2
03-10-2012, 23:26
I made my choice based on which optic I shot better with. For me, the eotech system is much faster for the run and gun shooting I like to do. I will never own an aimpoint because I am slower with them. Plus, the 1MOA dot is much easier for me to shoot accurately beyond 100 yrds. To each his own.


farmer2

sgtlmj
03-11-2012, 04:17
Eojunk's CS should be good, they get enough practice.

I've had 4 Eo's over the years, always hoping that they worked out the bugs. Every one of them failed on me. I've seen so many fail in classes, matches, and on duty rifles over the years that I wonder how they stay in business.

Made Man
03-11-2012, 06:09
:popcorn:


Oh no, here we go.

series1811
03-11-2012, 06:25
In all the years I've been reading gun forums, I'm not sure I've ever read about a problem with an Aimpoint. If I have, they've been so few that I don't recall them. I read about problems with EOTech all the time.

My agency used put Aimpoints on our ARs and then switched to Eotechs. I don't remember ever hearing about a problem with the Aimpoints, but I have only seen one of our Eotechs go down. But, we also have a lot more Eotechs (about 2500) than we had Aimpoints (only a 1000 or so). I never had problems with either one.

I think it comes down to personal preference. I think if you combined an Aimpoints controls and battery system, with an EOtechs field of view, you would have the best of both worlds.

Why someone doesn't do that, I don't know.

Airborne Infantryman
03-11-2012, 11:17
Eojunk's CS should be good, they get enough practice.

I've had 4 Eo's over the years, always hoping that they worked out the bugs. Every one of them failed on me. I've seen so many fail in classes, matches, and on duty rifles over the years that I wonder how they stay in business.

That's funny- the one on my M249 SAW in Iraq never let me down during the 15 months I used it......

Same with the one on my SL's M4.......and the same with the EXPS3-0 I bought last year......you must just have ****ty luck. :dunno:

Javelin
03-11-2012, 11:19
That's funny- the one on my M249 SAW in Iraq never let me down during the 15 months I used it......

Same with the one on my SL's M4.......and the same with the EXPS3-0 I bought last year......you must just have ****ty luck. :dunno:

I was wondering where all this internet commando hatred for EOTech is coming from too.

Because of these horror stories I am beginning to not trust mine.... but for what reason I have no idea.

:dunno:

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 11:20
That's funny- the one on my M249 SAW in Iraq never let me down during the 15 months I used it......

Same with the one on my SL's M4.......and the same with the EXPS3-0 I bought last year......you must just have ****ty luck. :dunno:

I've seen WAY more wrecked and failed EO Techs than Aimpoints - sometimes to the point of boxes full of them.

sgtlmj
03-11-2012, 14:38
That's funny- the one on my M249 SAW in Iraq never let me down during the 15 months I used it......

Same with the one on my SL's M4.......and the same with the EXPS3-0 I bought last year......you must just have ****ty luck. :dunno:

I've never been able to kill an Aimpoint and I've owned a bunch of those. It's not just me (although my luck is in the lower percentile sometimes.) Last match I shot was February and a guy had one die on him. It was 10deg out, but they should still work in the cold.

@Javelin, I hope it's not me you're calling an internet commando. :rofl:

Restless28
03-11-2012, 17:14
I was wondering where all this internet commando hatred for EOTech is coming from too.

Because of these horror stories I am beginning to not trust mine.... but for what reason I have no idea.

:dunno:

I seem to recall the SEALS in Act of Valor using the EOTech. :whistling:

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 17:52
I seem to recall the SEALS in Act of Valor using the EOTech. :whistling:

They had plenty of Aimpoint M2/M3's as well.

Restless28
03-11-2012, 18:09
They had plenty of Aimpoint M2/M3's as well.

True.

MrMurphy
03-11-2012, 19:27
Eotech's had enough experience swapping out bad ones, of course they are pros.

And while good ones do exist (I've used a few) replacing 80 out of 100 issued in a single batch is far from unheard of. As in an entire squadron or battalion needing replacements within months.

WoodenPlank
03-11-2012, 19:31
Eotech's had enough experience swapping out bad ones, of course they are pros.

And while good ones do exist (I've used a few) replacing 80 out of 100 issued in a single batch is far from unheard of. As in an entire squadron or battalion needing replacements within months.

Seeing one SSA with 20+ wrecked EO Techs and one or two Aimpoints after a battalion came back from deployment was all the evidence I ever needed. I went Aimpoint and will not go back.

Restless28
03-11-2012, 21:20
Y'all have made my mind up. Aimpoint it is.

Javelin
03-11-2012, 21:26
Eotech's had enough experience swapping out bad ones, of course they are pros.

And while good ones do exist (I've used a few) replacing 80 out of 100 issued in a single batch is far from unheard of. As in an entire squadron or battalion needing replacements within months.

Holy crap. This is not good news.

I'm not a brand whore of either Aimpoint or EOTech. I own both. These posts all the time are causing me to have some serious doubt in my one EOTech though.....

Javelin
03-11-2012, 21:28
I
@Javelin, I hope it's not me you're calling an internet commando. :rofl:

Naw./ These EOTech issues & debates are weekly and I am just tired of clicking on them because I own one.

Might just get rid of the one I own so I can stop being drawn to read more crap about them. Even though it has been a really really great optic for me anyway.

MrMurphy
03-12-2012, 06:49
When they work, they work awesomely. When they don't, they're spectacular pieces of crap. The problem is going through enough bad ones for a good one.

The battery box issue (causing the scope to off/on/off/on) while firing is well known and multigenerational. The XPS seems to have cured that mostly, but Eotechs have been in production for YEARS (nearly a decade) before it was ever successfully addressed, even with large numbers of guys reporting (from being in combat) it was happening, including several guys I know personally.

Short battery life, well known, due to the design, not much you can do there. Holographs simply suck up more power apparently.

Poor button placement and auto-shut off. Total failure on engineering side from listening to the end user. Finally 'somewhat' cured on the 553 series, and those also have issues (the 80 out of 100 number comes from a Marine battalion armorer I trust, specific to that "new and improved" model).

I want to like Eotechs. I love the reticle and wide open window. Not a fan of the buttons but I can live with it. But eating batteries like a 2 yr old going through Cheerios and dying randomly.....sorry. Not on a duty weapon.

When i was selling optics professionally I had a cop convert when three times in one week he rolled out of the car and his Eotech (a 512, one of probably the most reliable models they've ever made from what I've seen personally) was dead on arrival, despite having fresh batteries DAILY after the first time.

He ended up with an Aimpoint ML3.


When they work they're freaking awesome (I know a guy who's had one last through 2 hard deployments) but the majority......don't.

Travclem
03-12-2012, 11:21
I have a few EoTechs and my dad's department issues them. I have never had a problem neither has his PD. He is the firearms/active shooter instructor and armorer for the dept so he sees them all. I have no doubt that Aimpoints are outstanding sights, I have one of those too. Most of the ET failures that I have heard about have been online or friends of friends cousins twice removed. In the real world they work great.

MD357
03-12-2012, 12:11
I have a few EoTechs and my dad's department issues them. I have never had a problem neither has his PD. He is the firearms/active shooter instructor and armorer for the dept so he sees them all. I have no doubt that Aimpoints are outstanding sights, I have one of those too. Most of the ET failures that I have heard about have been online or friends of friends cousins twice removed. In the real world they work great.

That's funny, all the reports I hear of ET's working great is from someone online talking about his dad's department. :supergrin:

Restless28
03-12-2012, 12:47
That's funny, all the reports I hear of ET's working great is from someone online talking about his dad's department. :supergrin:

Bazinga!

Travclem
03-12-2012, 14:02
That's funny, all the reports I hear of ET's working great is from someone online talking about his dad's department. :supergrin:
Did you miss the part about me having 2 of them myself? One I've had for many years, it doesn't have the rubber buttons on it. The other is an XPS-2 that I've had for 2-3 years and put around 10,000 rounds through the rifle that it sits on. I had a 512 for 2 years and traded up for the lighter XPS. I don't care if you don't like my opinion, it's worth exactly what you paid for it, No more or less than anyone else's. My main point is that people need to find out for themselves and not listen to brand bashers online. :wavey:

Even though most GTers are special forces super double black operative commandoes, most civillians will never break a walmart red dot much less an EoTech.

M&P15T
03-12-2012, 14:07
Replacing batteries every 6-9 months is fine with me.

I love my 552.

MD357
03-12-2012, 14:08
Did you miss the part about me having 2 of them myself? One I've had for many years, it doesn't have the rubber buttons on it. The other is an XPS-2 that I've had for 2-3 years and put around 10,000 rounds through the rifle that it sits on. I had a 512 for 2 years and traded up for the lighter XPS. I don't care if you don't like my opinion, it's worth exactly what you paid for it, No more or less than anyone else's. My main point is that people need to find out for themselves and not listen to brand bashers online. :wavey:

Have no problem with your opinion, it is what it is and I believe that you've had no problems. I was just pointing out the irony. Whether you, your dad, his department runs them.... you were discounting others opinions because if they were negative... they were second hand family experiences..... on the internet. I'll let you think about that for a minute. :supergrin:

Travclem
03-12-2012, 14:20
Have no problem with your opinion, it is what it is and I believe that you've had no problems. I was just pointing out the irony. Whether you, your dad, his department runs them.... you were discounting others opinions because if they were negative... they were second hand family experiences..... on the internet. I'll let you think about that for a minute. :supergrin:
That's fine, I guess I can see that. I'd guess that most of the tales on GT are pretty tall, it's the nature of the beast. I didn't say my positive experiences were any more reliable to someone than anyone elses negative experiences. It's still my own experience, and no one else's. I don't know how many times I've met people at the range and friend of friends that say they don't like a particular brand of something. When asked why they can't give you any reasons except "the internet said so". People should really get their own experiences with these things.


On another note, I'd bet a dollar and a donut hole that most of the gear goobers on GT wont shoot any more than 2-3k rounds through any particular gun in their life. If so, the optic they choose is irrelevant anyway.

D.S.Brown
03-12-2012, 18:06
On another note, I'd bet a dollar and a donut hole that most of the gear goobers on GT wont shoot any more than 2-3k rounds through any particular gun in their life. If so, the optic they choose is irrelevant anyway.

This may be the safest bet ever made!

Best,

Dave

MrMurphy
03-12-2012, 21:47
Gee i've only got about 9,000 through my Glock 30.

My M&P15 is approaching 2500. My issued M4 was at least a few thousand.

From a sample of 2, you are making your comparisons..... i used to SELL the damned things, i've served with guys using them, I know other guys maintaining them.....not my cousin's brother's friend's barber's next door neighbor's girlfriend's pet schnauzer's veterinarian's neighbor. Men I KNOW and have served with, or served with others I know. Personally or professionally.

What is your experience again?



Yeah.

WoodenPlank
03-12-2012, 22:06
Gee i've only got about 9,000 through my Glock 30.

My M&P15 is approaching 2500. My issued M4 was at least a few thousand.

From a sample of 2, you are making your comparisons..... i used to SELL the damned things, i've served with guys using them, I know other guys maintaining them.....not my cousin's brother's friend's barber's next door neighbor's girlfriend's pet schnauzer's veterinarian's neighbor. Men I KNOW and have served with, or served with others I know. Personally or professionally.

What is your experience again?



Yeah.


:rofl:

Not everyone on the internet is a gun shop commando. There are people that give solid advice online that know what the hell they are talking about - either from lots of personal experience, or lots of time working with the "been there, done that" crowd.

themighty9mm
03-12-2012, 22:25
.... nevermind...

MD357
03-12-2012, 22:46
On another note, I'd bet a dollar and a donut hole that most of the gear goobers on GT wont shoot any more than 2-3k rounds through any particular gun in their life. If so, the optic they choose is irrelevant anyway.

Good thing we have your daddy's department to reference eh? :cool:

faawrenchbndr
03-12-2012, 23:05
Damn,.....another thread turned into a pissin match!

MrMurphy
03-13-2012, 00:04
Nope. Children forgot the seen not heard rule when adults were talking.

PlasticGuy
03-13-2012, 01:27
My EoTech failed. One of my shooting buddies was a huge EoTech fan, until two of his three failed. Our issued Aimpoints just keep on working. The field of view might not be quite as large and the the reticle is just a simple dot, but they are as reliable as an optic can be. Aimpoint all the way.

Travclem
03-13-2012, 05:42
Gee i've only got about 9,000 through my Glock 30.

My M&P15 is approaching 2500. My issued M4 was at least a few thousand.

From a sample of 2, you are making your comparisons..... i used to SELL the damned things, i've served with guys using them, I know other guys maintaining them.....not my cousin's brother's friend's barber's next door neighbor's girlfriend's pet schnauzer's veterinarian's neighbor. Men I KNOW and have served with, or served with others I know. Personally or professionally.

What is your experience again?



Yeah.
Again, your experience, your opinion. Not any more valuable than anyone else's. No need for presumptuous insults, it is very unbecoming of your character.

The OP started a thread about a good experience with a company's CS and instantly the GT special forces start bashing the product. No reason for that.

P.S. I would most certainly not call 2500 through an AR and a "few thousand" through another, a lot of trigger time. I'm glad that you have worked at a gunshop but that discounts your opinion in my own personal opinion.


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Travclem
03-13-2012, 05:53
Good thing we have your daddy's department to reference eh? :cool:
Did my comment hit a little close to home? Is insulting people over the Internet the only thing that makes you feel like a tough guy? If so, by all means, continue. I'd be willing to bet that I have more rounds down range and more hours of formal training than 75% of the Internet commandos on GT. Why do you completely ignore the fact that I have over 10k rounds through one rifle with an EoTech mounted. I also have 4-5k through another with an Aimpoint. I used the police department that my dad works for as a high volume example. I have plenty of personal experience. So what's your issue? Why piss on my opinion just because you don't agree?

The only contributions that you have made to this thread are personal attacks on me. I don't have an issue with that, but don't you have anything better to do?

WoodenPlank
03-13-2012, 05:53
Again, your experience, your opinion. Not any more valuable than anyone else's. No need for presumptuous insults, it is very unbecoming of your character.

The OP started a thread about a good experience with a company's CS and instantly the GT special forces start bashing the product. No reason for that.

P.S. I would most certainly not call 2500 through an AR and a "few thousand" through another, a lot of trigger time. I'm glad that you have worked at a gunshop but that discounts your opinion in my own personal opinion.


Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

I'll let you in on a clue: Murphy has done a lot more than a couple thousand rounds through an AR, and work in a gun shop... :whistling:

series1811
03-13-2012, 05:59
Obviously, opinions vary, sometimes greatly, on this very contentious subject. :supergrin:

Anybody here think their EOtech, or their Aimpoint, or their anything else electronic sight, is so foolproof that they have taken off their iron sights?

I didn't think so. :supergrin:

Fail to plan for failure, and you will fail.

Travclem
03-13-2012, 06:06
I'll let you in on a clue: Murphy has done a lot more than a couple thousand rounds through an AR, and work in a gun shop... :whistling:
All I can go on is what he posted.

MD357
03-13-2012, 08:17
Did my comment hit a little close to home? Is insulting people over the Internet the only thing that makes you feel like a tough guy? If so, by all means, continue. I'd be willing to bet that I have more rounds down range and more hours of formal training than 75% of the Internet commandos on GT.

How did I insult you? I've said nothing about your experience, just pointed out equality in comments on the internet in terms of "proof." You then made a blanket and insulting statement about a majority of GT and I replied with a little sarcasm because it's generally a moot point to enter a pissing contest. Let's just say I'm about as impressed with your chest thumping as your claim to be superior to 75% of GT after 10K rounds. Really?

Why do you completely ignore the fact that I have over 10k rounds through one rifle with an EoTech mounted. I also have 4-5k through another with an Aimpoint. I used the police department that my dad works for as a high volume example. I have plenty of personal experience. So what's your issue? Why piss on my opinion just because you don't agree?

I guess I have to spell it out for you.... again. Don't act innocent as I'm only reacting to YOUR comments. As stated previously I have no problem with your actual opinion. It's your insistance in your ORIGINAL statement that you are somehow different from everyone else here (hint: seems there are some experienced individuals) because you apparently speak from reality..... yet you gave first and second hand anecdotes on the internet as experience.

The only contributions that you have made to this thread are personal attacks on me. I don't have an issue with that, but don't you have anything better to do?

Don't be so sensitive as I don't see how I've gotten personal. All I've done is point out irony in your statements towards everyone here and made one little sarcastic comment after a general insult and you had a meltdown. :cool:

Travclem
03-13-2012, 08:34
How did I insult you? I've said nothing about your experience, just pointed out equality in comments on the internet in terms of "proof." You then made a blanket and insulting statement about a majority of GT and I replied with a little sarcasm because it's generally a moot point to enter a pissing contest. Let's just say I'm about as impressed with your chest thumping as your claim to be superior to 75% of GT after 10K rounds. Really?



I guess I have to spell it out for you.... again. Don't act innocent as I'm only reacting to YOUR comments. As stated previously I have no problem with your actual opinion. It's your insistance in your ORIGINAL statement that you are somehow different from everyone else here (hint: seems there are some experienced individuals) because you apparently speak from reality..... yet you gave first and second hand anecdotes on the internet as experience.



Don't be so sensitive as I don't see how I've gotten personal. All I've done is point out irony in your statements towards everyone here and made one little sarcastic comment after a general insult and you had a meltdown. :cool:

10k is through one gun not total. Not chest thumping, my experience with EoTech was asked for so I told it. Didn't say my experience any more dependable than any one elses, just had different experience. Never said it was worth more than anyone elses opinion. The point of my original post was to share my positive experiences and encourage people to do get their own experience with things, not just go on what some guy said on the internet. I understand that i am just some guy on the internet as well, but people can never argue with their own personal experience. I couldn't care less about what you say, I'm just trying to find a point to it. By all means, carry on. I just don't see what your goals are, other than general harassment.

I don't see my comment about the gear goobers here as an insult just as a highly probable statistic.

Meltdown? :rofl:

faawrenchbndr
03-13-2012, 08:49
Nope. Children forgot the seen not heard rule when adults were talking.


Not to throw gas on a fire, but,.........
That's funny ass ****! :rofl:

eclark53520
03-13-2012, 08:56
Have no problem with your opinion, it is what it is and I believe that you've had no problems. I was just pointing out the irony. Whether you, your dad, his department runs them.... you were discounting others opinions because if they were negative... they were second hand family experiences..... on the internet. I'll let you think about that for a minute. :supergrin:

If you can't see the difference between 'my dad and myself' and 'i read this on the internet' I can't help you.

MD357
03-13-2012, 10:38
If you can't see the difference between 'my dad and myself' and 'i read this on the internet' I can't help you.

I'm sure you couldn't.... but that's not my point..... never has been.

I dunno why this is rocket science to some but we are all on the internet (irony) and only one reply could be construed as.... "I read it on the internet" that I see. Outside of that I see multiple replies that relay personal first hand experience..... not dad's..... :supergrin: (also irony considering comments)

MD357
03-13-2012, 10:38
Didn't say my experience any more dependable than any one elses, just had different experience. Never said it was worth more than anyone elses opinion. The point of my original post was to share my positive experiences and encourage people to do get their own experience with things, not just go on what some guy said on the internet.

Yes... you are obviously different in this respect. :supergrin:

If they have different experiences than you..... they are second hand anecdotes, not speaking from reality, and or brand bashers. If you insult.... it's a statistic.

cowboy1964
03-13-2012, 10:42
I suspect that outside the military there are probably far more EoTechs in use than Aimpoints. That alone is going to account for more "problem reports".

cowboy1964
03-13-2012, 10:44
Again, your experience, your opinion. Not any more valuable than anyone else's.

As are all the comments about all Aimpoints being perfect and all EoTechs being junk.

Travclem
03-13-2012, 10:57
Yes... you are obviously different in this respect. :supergrin:

If they have different experiences than you..... they are second hand anecdotes, not speaking from reality, and or brand bashers. If you insult.... it's a statistic.

Even if they have the same experiences as me, they are still just another guy on the internet. I have been very involved with my dad and his department growing up. I go to the range with them and am friends with a lot of them. I have experienced their equipment first had as well as my own. But again, it is my experience and not worth much to anyone else. It is pointless to reason with you as you have proven to have no comprehension skills.

MD357
03-13-2012, 11:04
Even if they have the same experiences as me, they are still just another guy on the internet. .

and we finally have comprehension!!!

Cheers. :thumbsup:

Travclem
03-13-2012, 11:09
and we finally have comprehension!!!

Cheers. :thumbsup:
Go back and count how many times I have said that in this thread.

eclark53520
03-13-2012, 11:31
and we finally have comprehension!!!

Cheers. :thumbsup:

So as far as you're concerned, nothing posted on the internet is valid.

So why are you here again?

itstime
03-13-2012, 11:34
It's great to hear stories like this. Makes it easier or a no brainier in fact to spend money with companies like this.

MD357
03-13-2012, 11:40
So as far as you're concerned, nothing posted on the internet is valid.


Nope, quite the contrary, I have NO idea where you got this. Let's read what I've said before trying to jump into the middle eh?

drizzle
03-13-2012, 16:06
Typical GT thread; one page of decent info, twice as many of the pissing match.

I also agree that no more than five percent of any poster here is ever going to run a rifle or pistol hard enough to get close to its service life, myself included. I did put about 500 rounds through my M&P15 last time I was at the range, but when I worked out what that cost, I probably won't do that again for a while. :crying:

Simple economics is enough of a reason not to shoot as much as a cop or soldier, since I assume their employer would buy training ammo (and I know that we, as a whole buy it, as citizens, but that's too far removed for this situation).

PlasticGuy
03-13-2012, 16:39
Even if they have the same experiences as me, they are still just another guy on the internet...
You're correct to a degree. The problem is that you are dismissing the experience of Military veterans and LE officers who are posting here.

That's not to say that going to the range with your dad doesn't count as experience. I am saying that when guys (like myself and Murphy) who are issued this gear and paid to shoot piles of ammo say they are seeing problems, you may want to take it into consideration.

WoodenPlank
03-13-2012, 16:52
You're correct to a degree. The problem is that you are dismissing the experience of Military veterans and LE officers who are posting here.

That's not to say that going to the range with your dad doesn't count as experience. I am saying that when guys (like myself and Murphy) who are issued this gear and paid to shoot piles of ammo say they are seeing problems, you may want to take it into consideration.

Exactly. Not everyone that posts info on GT is an idiot that learned guns from Call of Duty. The key is being able to tell the idiots from people that have a clue.

Travclem
03-13-2012, 16:59
You're correct to a degree. The problem is that you are dismissing the experience of Military veterans and LE officers who are posting here.

That's not to say that going to the range with your dad doesn't count as experience. I am saying that when guys (like myself and Murphy) who are issued this gear and paid to shoot piles of ammo say they are seeing problems, you may want to take it into consideration.
I am not discounting their experience, just saying that mine has been different. I do take cops/military experience seriously but I know a whole mess of them personally who don't have issues. I have been in classes with them, and at the range with them so I would take their experience and my own over anyone on the internet. This is beside the point. My original intent was to encourage people to go out and gather their own experience instead of listening to people on the Internet. Myself included.

The truth of the matter is, I don't have a dog in this fight because I have and like both EoTechs and Aimpoints. It has made my day go by a little faster though.



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PlasticGuy
03-14-2012, 01:33
...I do take cops/military experience seriously but I know a whole mess of them personally who don't have issues. I have been in classes with them...
I have been to some of the best schools in the nation. This includes training with Ayoob, Suarez, Clint Smith, and Marty Hayes, several weeks of instructor certification classes at the state police academy, and training with several of the top instructors in LE and Nuclear Security. The general sentiment has been very positive toward Aimpoint, and somewhat negative toward EoTech. You say the classes you've been to have been pro EoTech. Which ones?

pgg00
03-14-2012, 01:34
I currently have 3 eotechs. 1 on my current patrol rifle, 1 on my old patrol rifle, and 1 on the wife's patrol rifle. None have had issues, even after years of riding in a gun rack in beat up squad cars. Neither have any of the other officers had issues with theirs. I do keep a spare set of batteries in the pistol grip though, and iron back ups.

MrMurphy
03-14-2012, 02:45
Pgg, going by the odds, you've been spectacularly lucky. I'm betting either 512s or 552s (which, above all others, seem to run ok).

I actually like Eotechs, for some roles, they're awesome (miniguns and aerial gunnery, minigun from personal xp, aerial gunnery from some aerial gunners I've known)....if they'd solve the tiny battery life and random die-off, i'd be all over them.

But until then......Aimpoint. There's half a million plus in service just with the Army, and they survive nearly anything, including aircraft crashes (a coworker survived a Little Bird wreck where the Aimpoint made it, the helo and the rifle were in bits... yet the Aimpoint worked afterwards). They're not perfect, but for a idiotproof optic, they work very, very well.

Having been up to 130F, down to -10F, rained, snowed, hailed on, covered in mud, bodyslammed into concrete, armor panels, turret interiors, Humvee interiors, armored hatches, aircraft ramps, and just about everything else with the same optic on it's original battery for nearly 3 years (minus six months using a different rifle deployed) I tend to trust what I've seen work. I've seen some break. Just like i've seen some Eo's like pgg00's that work no matter what.

But until Eotech can make the vast majority work like Aimpoints do (reliably, for a long time).... I won't change. I simply can't trust them to be on when they need to be (the auto shut off) instead of "holy crap, it's off!" (with an M68).

When Eo's run they're freaking awesome and they are fast as hell. The problem is still in percentages.

series1811
03-14-2012, 03:10
I will say the one most annoying thing about my EOTech was accidently hitting the NV button, and thinking my batteries were dead or that maybe it had broken (mine never did break).

And, to show how easy it is to make a tough electronic sight, I bought a BSA Aimpoint knockoff for $40 that we put on a pellet rifle. It went through Katrina, was under salt water for eight hours, left to sit in the mud for six weeks, and when pulled out and washed off, worked perfectly (and then got accidentally thrown away because it was attached to a rusted pellet gun I did tell somebody to throw away). :)

The EOTech was with me so I didn't get to torture test it that way, although I, and other people on other shifts) carried it for the three weeks on looter patrol after that without any problems.

I'd say it held up better than I did.

Travclem
03-14-2012, 07:40
I have been to some of the best schools in the nation. This includes training with Ayoob, Suarez, Clint Smith, and Marty Hayes, several weeks of instructor certification classes at the state police academy, and training with several of the top instructors in LE and Nuclear Security. The general sentiment has been very positive toward Aimpoint, and somewhat negative toward EoTech. You say the classes you've been to have been pro EoTech. Which ones?

I didn't say pro EoTech, I said the people/officers in the classes, myself included, have never had problems with them. The classes have been with Louis Awerbuck in Amarillo, TX, John Farnham in OKC, and Various others that dad knows through IALEFI. Not to mention active attending numerous active shooter and LE rifle schools put on by my dad. None of the classes I have been to were pro this or pro that. You just showed up with your gear and shoot. The only optic problems that have ever happened in these classes had to do with knockoff airsoft red dots. You say you are a police instructor, are you going to be at IALEFI in Nashville this year?

I shoot, reload, hunt, and go to classes for my own ammusement and not for a living but I'd say I push my equipment pretty hard. Crawling through salt cedars and sand looking for hogs is my kind of fun. I don't get paid to shoot because years of growing up with 1 great grandparent, 3 grandparents, 4 uncles, and a dad that are/were all LEO who told me not to do it. I took their advice and my life is headed in a totally different direction than LE. Still I push my equipment hard and I am conastantly around people who do the same for a living. I don't really know how this thread got here except for a little trolling of my initial comment.

faawrenchbndr
03-14-2012, 07:48
I've tried to like the EOTech,.......but I keep coming back to Aimpoint.
Love my Comp M2

PlasticGuy
03-15-2012, 02:33
...You say you are a police instructor, are you going to be at IALEFI in Nashville this year?

...I don't really know how this thread got here except for a little trolling of my initial comment.
I was an instructor for six years, but am not an instructor in my current job in nuclear security. I'm just a gun toting grunt at the moment. I kept up enough certs to still be able to go to IALEFI events, but I won't be going to any this year. It's not worth traveling that far. I don't mind traveling cross country for a really unique class (such as the com-bloc weapons class I took in Houston last spring), but the IALEFI thing doesn't qualify in my opinion. It's good, but not that good.

As for how this thread got off track, answering that honestly would drive it even further off track. I'll leave it alone. :whistling:

rkwrichard
03-15-2012, 06:58
You got to love all the bashers and haters!!

series1811
03-15-2012, 07:40
You got to love all the bashers and haters!!

And, since a very small percentage of people here actually use their guns as part of their job, and instead just shoot for fun, does it really matter?

It's the same way when people talk about what is the most reliable gun. Well, reviewing our shootings over my career, I found that the number one reasons for a weapon to fail to fire or operate correctly in a real gunfight were

1) operator error (didn't put a round in the chamber, didn't seat magazine properly, forgot to flip safety off, accidental contact with something preventing cycling, etc. )and

2) non-operator error, (weapon hit by gunfire, gun pushed out of battery during struggle, etc.), disabling it.

(Two agencies I have been in have had LOD deaths from guns disabled by gunfire during gunfights. I don't know a single instance in either one of a normal failure to fire during a gunfight, based on reliability, but put up a thread about which AR is most reliable, for instance, and watch the fur fly).

Neither one of those reasons really care what brand of gun you carry. I suspect sight problems in the field are very similiar much of the time.

sgtlmj
03-15-2012, 18:01
...aaaaaand Serpa. :wavey:

owl6roll
03-16-2012, 16:30
I made my choice based on which optic I shot better with. For me, the eotech system is much faster for the run and gun shooting I like to do. I will never own an aimpoint because I am slower with them. Plus, the 1MOA dot is much easier for me to shoot accurately beyond 100 yrds. To each his own.


farmer2

Me too!

Javelin
03-16-2012, 18:58
I'm seriously beginning to doubt my EOTech 512 again. It's been a great sight... just all these horror stories. WTF.

Maybe it will just be the last one I buy cause I like my Aimpoint too.

OdinIII
03-16-2012, 21:16
I'm seriously beginning to doubt my EOTech 512 again. It's been a great sight... just all these horror stories. WTF.

Maybe it will just be the last one I buy cause I like my Aimpoint too.

Join the crowd. I feel the same way.

I just ordered a 6720 and was planning on running my 512 on it but now I'm thinking I should just go ahead and buy an Aimpoint Pro for it. I really wish I could try one first. I don't see too well with my non dominate eye and the one ML2 that I tried seemed to be hard to see through. It did have an ARD installed. I wonder if my left eye worked better if the sight picture would have been clearer.

MrMurphy
03-16-2012, 21:26
I've shot the Aimpoint with an ARD on and off, one eye or two. Never seemed to make much difference, just make sure you have the brightness level correct.

Crank it up till you can see it well then down one click is usually good.

Ahmid
03-16-2012, 21:31
I am sticking with Aimpoint....

OdinIII
03-16-2012, 21:53
I've shot the Aimpoint with an ARD on and off, one eye or two. Never seemed to make much difference, just make sure you have the brightness level correct.

Crank it up till you can see it well then down one click is usually good.

Seeing the dot was never a problem. One thing I definitely like better about the Aimpoint is the brightness adjustment. I hate hitting the button on my 512 over and over getting to the right brightness.

The owner of the Aimpoint that I tried bought it off of Ebay for what IIRC was a somewhat low price. It was used and had scratches on it from rough use. Sometimes I wonder if it was a fake. It looked genuine to me. I think I'm going to find a known good Aimpoint to try.

WoodenPlank
03-16-2012, 21:58
Seeing the dot was never a problem. One thing I definitely like better about the Aimpoint is the brightness adjustment. I hate hitting the button on my 512 over and over getting to the right brightness.

The owner of the Aimpoint that I tried bought it off of Ebay for what IIRC was a somewhat low price. It was used and had scratches on it from rough use. Sometimes I wonder if it was a fake. It looked genuine to me. I think I'm going to find a known good Aimpoint to try.

There are a LOT of fakes out there, so it's entirely possible he got one.

MrMurphy
03-16-2012, 23:20
Entirely possible.

If you have a decent shop near you, try a M3 or M4 or Pro mounted on a rifle, not held in the hand. Adjust the brightness from off to about 7 or 8 clicks, that should be good for most people.

3000fps
03-17-2012, 09:52
Well the way I look at it, you type a picture in google images of Navy Seals or Seal Team 6 stuff like that, all you see is aimpoints.

I was told they used aimpoints because they have a good budget and can afford whatever they want.

series1811
03-18-2012, 06:34
Well the way I look at it, you type a picture in google images of Navy Seals or Seal Team 6 stuff like that, all you see is aimpoints.

I was told they used aimpoints because they have a good budget and can afford whatever they want.

Based, on that, I am glad to know I own the finest handgun in the world, the 9mm P226. :supergrin:

I'm only cracking on you because I have a good friend who is a big IPSC competitor, and who uses a 1911 who was ragging me about Sigs a couple of weeks ago and I told him, "Well Navy SEALs carry Sigs, what do you say about that Mr. Smarty Pants?"