any reason for a .40 handgun? No war just a question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Snaps
03-13-2012, 22:59
I consider myself a pretty average gun owner, I own mainly 9mm and .45ACP guns. 9mm is a G17 and 26, Taurus PT908, Beretta 92, a couple Smiths, a Keltec Sub2K, probably one or two others that I can't think of at the moment, a few 1911s in .45ACP and other than that just really the basics and a couple just for the hell of it guns. Desert Eagle, single action revolver, couple more revolvers in .44Mag and .357Mag.

Lately I find myself wondering about a .40. I've been planning on getting a midsized Glock, and the Charter Arms PitBull seems like something I'd like to have too but a 9mm version should be coming out soon.

Any real reason to get one? Is ammo cheaper being as a lot of PDs use it? More readily available? Looking to ballistics from the FBI when it comes to killing people it's what, 3% more effective?

But being as popular as they are it's gotta be something I"m missing. Possibly reloading options? what is it?

Angry Fist
03-13-2012, 23:02
I only buy .40 cuz it's cheaper than 10MM. Hopefully the conversion barrel has paid for itself by now. :sigh:

el_jewapo
03-13-2012, 23:04
I'm not going to get into a caliber war, but I've always thought of it as the perfect middle ground between the capacity of a 9mm and the oomph of a .45. It's the only one I own of the 3 and it will probably stay that way for a long time.

Lone Wolf8634
03-13-2012, 23:04
I have a g23. Never shoot it anymore. I seem to be more accurate with a 9mm or a .45 so thats what I use.

Foxtrotx1
03-13-2012, 23:05
The 9mm has worked for 100 years.

MtBaldy
03-13-2012, 23:09
It fires a big bullet with a lot of energy. More than 9mm and most .45 ACP rounds. The police went to the .40 because of perceived shortcomings, real or not, in the "stopping power" of 9mm guns. From what I read most departments still think the .40 is a more effective round than 9 mm. Some departments are returning to the 9mm but I think the decision has more to do with economics than effectiveness. .40 ammo is more expensive despite it being more popular with the police. I chose it because while no handgun round is completely effective the .40 is near the top of the heap and you can still carry a significant amount rounds in most .40 guns.

Folsom_Prison
03-13-2012, 23:18
Im a 9mm fan! I've had a G23 and it was my first Glock and wasn't impressed. I traded it for a G19 and couldnt be happier. For me I shoot 9mm better plus it's cheaper to shoot so it's a win win for me.

*ASH*
03-13-2012, 23:20
i used to carry a glock fordy but not anymore i was not professional enough :crying:

GVFlyer
03-13-2012, 23:21
I have a couple and carry them often - a H&K USP Compact .40 S&W LEM and a a Sig P239 SAS DAK.

Snaps
03-13-2012, 23:23
i used to carry a glock fordy but not anymore i was not professional enough :crying:

Thank god you weren't. If you were your leg would hurt

Snaps
03-13-2012, 23:23
I have a couple and carry them often - a H&K USP Compact .40 S&W LEM and a a Sig P239 SAS DAK.

Any real reason you have or that?

ubimow
03-13-2012, 23:24
Im a 9mm fan! I've had a G23 and it was my first Glock and wasn't impressed. I traded it for a G19 and couldnt be happier. For me I shoot 9mm better plus it's cheaper to shoot so it's a win win for me.

Exactly the same situation for me!

crazymoose
03-13-2012, 23:25
Never been a huge fan of the round. It does penetrate pretty well, but otherwise, you typically get expanded diameters from JHP rounds only very slightly larger than the same 9mm load, and recoil that's worse (to me) than a .45.

RCP
03-13-2012, 23:31
I'm an ex G23 owner. I shot it well enough but I decided to limit the amount of calibers I had to keep on hand. For handguns all I worry about is 9mm and .45 anymore (well and .22 I suppose).

GVFlyer
03-13-2012, 23:34
deleted

GVFlyer
03-13-2012, 23:36
Any real reason you have or that?

Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Wt.: 140gr DPX
Velocity: 1200fps
Energy: 448ftlbs

Javelin
03-13-2012, 23:40
I like my .40 cal pistols.

Though I like my 9mm pistols more because I have a 9mm silencer. So the "Tip of the Hat" goes to 9mm I guess. But did I say I like my .40 cal pistols?

:wavey:

Folsom_Prison
03-13-2012, 23:40
Exactly the same situation for me!

My first pistol was a P95, which like a dummy I traded for an LCR which after time I traded for the 23. I went back to my 9mm roots! G19 love!!

DoubleWide
03-13-2012, 23:42
It's a compromise. For some, that's a good thing. For some, it's bad.

You've hit all the major calibers that I'd buy except maybe 10mm, which just doesn't have the choices that other calibers have.

Snaps
03-13-2012, 23:47
I like my .40 cal pistols.

Though I like my 9mm pistols more because I have a 9mm silencer. So the "Tip of the Hat" goes to 9mm I guess. But did I say I like my .40 cal pistols?

:wavey:

No wag of the finger?

CU4X4N
03-13-2012, 23:47
The reason I bought my G23 was that is was on sale for $535 with Trijicon night sights installed and 3 13-round magazines.

Snaps
03-13-2012, 23:48
It's a compromise. For some, that's a good thing. For some, it's bad.

You've hit all the major calibers that I'd buy except maybe 10mm, which just doesn't have the choices that other calibers have.

Hag a G20, didn't notice any big advantage to it, people have told me its because I wasn't shooting hot ammo or reloading. I've considered giving it another shot though

cgwahl
03-13-2012, 23:51
i used to carry a glock fordy but not anymore i was not professional enough :crying:


Shoot your leg a couple times and the professionalism will be so strong it will start to seep out of ya.

Rodman24
03-13-2012, 23:57
i used to carry a glock fordy but not anymore i was not professional enough :crying:

LOL. Since I haven't shot myself, I suppose I'm not professional enough. But I do own a Gen4 G22 and a Gen3 G23. I do like the .40 for SD.

SK2344
03-14-2012, 00:13
I never had a use for the 40. I tried it in the Glock 27 and got rid of it real quick. It was not a fun round at the range. As for my EDC, I carried a 9mm for many years and the G 17 was my duty weapon for many years but I switched to the G 36 about 2 years ago and I will not go back to the 9mm. The 40 makes no real sense to me for self defense. Just my humble opinion.

Javelin
03-14-2012, 01:27
No wag of the finger?

Naw just Tip of the Hat for now.

:tongueout:

jeager
03-14-2012, 01:39
25% more powerful than 9mm
+2-3 rounds in comparable Glock in .45

G29Reload
03-14-2012, 01:40
I'm not going to get into a caliber war, but I've always thought of it as the perfect middle ground between the capacity of a 9mm and the oomph of a .45. It's the only one I own of the 3 and it will probably stay that way for a long time.

This. Great MOR caliber. I have a couple. good track record, and the middle ground means combination of both bore size, Slug mass/weight and magazine capacity. Right smack dab in the middle.

mj9mm
03-14-2012, 02:04
i agree, it has some advantages, gun frame can be slimmer than a 45, but, not all manufacturers make use of that advantage any way. it seems like it should be that perfect medium,:dunno:,not quite. it does have some versatilitty, ballistics can be decieving.

RayB
03-14-2012, 02:09
I consider myself a pretty average gun owner, I own mainly 9mm and .45ACP guns. 9mm is a G17 and 26, Taurus PT908, Beretta 92, a couple Smiths, a Keltec Sub2K, probably one or two others that I can't think of at the moment, a few 1911s in .45ACP and other than that just really the basics and a couple just for the hell of it guns. Desert Eagle, single action revolver, couple more revolvers in .44Mag and .357Mag.

Lately I find myself wondering about a .40. I've been planning on getting a midsized Glock, and the Charter Arms PitBull seems like something I'd like to have too but a 9mm version should be coming out soon.

Any real reason to get one? Is ammo cheaper being as a lot of PDs use it? More readily available? Looking to ballistics from the FBI when it comes to killing people it's what, 3% more effective?

But being as popular as they are it's gotta be something I"m missing. Possibly reloading options? what is it?


.40 S&W is a caliber I also passed over, as I too shoot 9 mm, .45 ACP, and 10 mm.

As I understand it, the .40 S&W caliber spun off from the 10 mm semi-auto cartridge introduced in the early 80's. The 10 mm, as adopted by the FBI, had both proponents and detractors. The .40 S&W was the popular answer, and some pretty slick political maneuvering by S&W, if you ask me.

At any rate, the .40 S&W and .357 Sig calibers are well-proven contenders among todays semi-auto cartridges.

--Ray

Hummerbike
03-14-2012, 02:35
Here's my thought.

If you ever actually need a gun you will want the biggest gun you can handle and even then you might want a bigger gun.

I was in a situation where I had to draw my gun, a.38 special. I remember thinking I wish I had my 10mm or my 12gauge.

DoubleWide
03-14-2012, 03:02
Hag a G20, didn't notice any big advantage to it, people have told me its because I wasn't shooting hot ammo or reloading. I've considered giving it another shot though

Yeah, a light 10mm is pretty much a .40 S&W with larger case and large primer. A powerful 10mm will add 50% ft-lbs and be above a .357 magnum.

Since you were pretty much shooting the equivalent of a Glock 22 and sold it, do you see a reason to buy another one?

1911ES
03-14-2012, 03:49
Boy, you guys make this more difficult each post. I'm picking up a Gen4 Glock on Friday (day off) and still on the fence deciding between a G23 and a G19 .... :dunno:
I have always had 9mm and .45 pistols, but never got the itch for a .40, until the Gen4 23 arrived.
I know the G19 makes a little more sense for an all-around shooter, but I still have the .40 lurking in the back of my mind .... :upeyes:
I do like the 9mm 15 rd. mag though.

Someone convince me.

RayB
03-14-2012, 04:11
Yeah, a light 10mm is pretty much a .40 S&W with larger case and large primer. A powerful 10mm will add 50% ft-lbs and be above a .357 magnum.



:agree: This...

I mean, to each his own, but if you're not going to shoot the hot rounds, then what's the point? :dunno:

All I shoot in 10 mm these days, is this:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=45

Then again, I don't hunt or reload... :whistling:

--Ray

GRIMLET
03-14-2012, 04:26
My experience with the g23 was short lived. The grip in the top and bottom grooves is ever so slightly smaller. This resulted in a wearing on my top finger while shooting. I carry a g22 on duty for 12 years this month. I prefer the 9mm to a .40. I have owned a steyr and it was smoother than the glock. I have wrist issues which make a .40 uncomfortable to shoot.
I shot a mil spec ammo can point blank- 4' and it only dented the can. No penetration. I was using gold dot 180 grain bullets.
That's just my experience. I consolidated to 9mm and .45.

Making order out of chaos

RayB
03-14-2012, 04:28
Boy, you guys make this more difficult each post. I'm picking up a Gen4 Glock on Friday (day off) and still on the fence deciding between a G23 and a G19 .... :dunno:
I have always had 9mm and .45 pistols, but never got the itch for a .40, until the Gen4 23 arrived.
I know the G19 makes a little more sense for an all-around shooter, but I still have the .40 lurking in the back of my mind .... :upeyes:
I do like the 9mm 15 rd. mag though.

Someone convince me.


I rented both a G22 and G31, and liked them well enough! And by my fourth box of ammo with each, I was center-coring two magazines worth of rounds through an FBI Half-Size Target at 30-feet, which is about as good as I shoot. :thumbsup:

Somehow, when it came time to decide, 9 mm, .45 ACP, and 10 mm seemed like the spread for me. :headscratch:

Now, I certainly do see the logic in purchasing, say, a G23 as a one-gun owner... Pop in a stock .357 Sig barrel and you have two great self-defense calibers, plus a high round count! Pop in a .40 - 9 mm Conversion Barrel, and you've got cheap-as-it-gets practice shooting for range play. I can really see no downside. :dunno:

I did come close to buyng a .40 S&W Sig Equinox, back in 2006, but opted for a new G17 instead. That G17 hasn't so much as hiccupped in over 14,000-rounds! :hearts:

Probably, it was this scientific analysis (attached) that convinced me...

--Ray

Raleigh Glocker
03-14-2012, 04:39
I am a 20 year "forty" advocate who has been convinced that the newest bullet technology now tips the tables towards 9mm again. My next gun will soon be a G17.

If you get good, LE loads, the terminal effect of a 9mm will be comparable to that of the 40 S&W. Plus, you get less of a snap in the recoil and a few more rounds in the same size mag.

I won't ever sell what I have, and my carry piece is a G23 that I adore, but if I had to make the purchasing decision today, I'd get a G19.

GlockinNJ
03-14-2012, 04:49
IMO, the 9mm and .45 calibers have been around so long that people think there is some special reason for them to exist. But they are no more special than the .40. The .40 is just as serviceable as either the 9 or .45. I'll bet the .40 will still be around in 100 years and then it will be the venerable old caliber that people will defend.

Bren
03-14-2012, 04:53
I consider myself a pretty average gun owner, I own mainly 9mm and .45ACP guns. 9mm is a G17 and 26, Taurus PT908, Beretta 92, a couple Smiths, a Keltec Sub2K, probably one or two others that I can't think of at the moment, a few 1911s in .45ACP and other than that just really the basics and a couple just for the hell of it guns. Desert Eagle, single action revolver, couple more revolvers in .44Mag and .357Mag.

The police can and have used 9mm, .45 ACP, .10mm, .357 mag., etc - they have almost universally settled on .40 because it is the best all-purpose round to maximize the benefits of the various calibers available. More power than a .9mm, with more capacity than a .45 or .357, while being easier to shoot fast than a 10mm. .40 is my favorite caliber for self-defense.

RayB
03-14-2012, 05:03
The police can and have used 9mm, .45 ACP, .10mm, .357 mag., etc - they have almost universally settled on .40 because it is the best all-purpose round to maximize the benefits of the various calibers available. More power than a .9mm, with more capacity than a .45 or .357, while being easier to shoot fast than a 10mm. .40 is my favorite caliber for self-defense.


It certainly is tried and true...

By the bye, since the .357 Sig is essentially a .40 necked down to a 9 mm, the capacity is the same as with a .40.

--Ray

P.S. I do believe my explanation of how the .40 came to be, in the broad strokes, is right on the money.

Rabid Rabbit
03-14-2012, 05:14
A lot of testing went in to selecting the 10mm for the FBI after the miami shootout. The FBI then discovered a lot of agents could not handle the 10mm so they whacked it back to 40. I remember reading the test results years ago, the 10mm blew the doors off of the 9 and 45, I think they went too far with the 40 though.

johnd
03-14-2012, 05:35
Ballistically its up there with the best of the best.
It was developed from the need for more ooomph in the 9mm which at that time was pretty anemic.
First it was the 41AE then came the 10mm and then the 40.
However the performance improvements were also applied to the "anemic 9mm" and today the 9mm is up there with the best of the best also, in fact the hardest 9mm round to stop in the body armor business is the WIN Ranger, the Gold Dot and the Aguilar TMJ.
Right now the 40 allows small handed Officers etc to carry the power of a 45 yet with the small grip characteristics of a 9mm weapon, thats just about it. Its a now proven round that leaves bigger holes than the 9mm and can run faster than any 45 also. Id like my Dept to go back to it or the 9mm now we have played with the 45.


see: http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/40SW.htm

BuckyP
03-14-2012, 05:51
Not mentioned, but the .40 also has a huge following in the competition circuit. It is THE caliber to use for USPSA Limited, IPSC standard, and (now defunct) IPSC Modified division. It also is the most common in USPSA L-10 and has a following in Single Stack and Production. For me, I prefer a downloaded .40 over a 9mm for this division.

For me, if I ever needed to reduce to 1 caliber, it would without question be .40.

NDCent
03-14-2012, 06:19
I carry .40 because 10mm and 44 mag is too heavy/bulky for pocket carry. Plus, 40 is cheaper to shoot if you don't reload.

ETA: cheaper to shoot than 44 or 10

BK63
03-14-2012, 06:22
I've shot some 40's and really didn't like them. I prefer 45 and some of the revolver calibers. Only reason I might think of getting one is because there is so darn much brass on the ground where I go to shoot. I'm always getting 40 and 9 mixed in when I'm picking up all my 45 brass. I don't usually see 45 laying on the ground and never see any 10.

T-Rod45
03-14-2012, 06:25
Now, I certainly do see the logic in purchasing, say, a G23 as a one-gun owner... Pop in a stock .357 Sig barrel and you have two great self-defense calibers, plus a high round count! Pop in a .40 - 9 mm Conversion Barrel, and you've got cheap-as-it-gets practice shooting for range play. I can really see no downside.


This ^^^ :wavey:


I recently went in to buy a Gen3 19 and walked out with a Gen4 23. This is coming from a guy who has no other 40's and shoots mostly 9mm. I had a PPS 40 and hated it.

What sold me on the 23 was the Gen4 recoil spring and the fact I could get a 40-9 and .357 barrel and have 3 guns in 1. I purchased a LWD 40-9 barrel last week and it's great! I now have a .40 and a 9mm by simply bringing along the barrel and mags. I carry the gun daily with the stock .40 barrel but after some more testing I *might* consider carrying it with hot 9mm instead. Either way the Gen4 recoil spring tames .40 snap quite a bit to the point where they feel like a +P 9mm in my opinion...

xmanhockey7
03-14-2012, 06:49
First gun was G22 I received as a gift. I like it because it provides good capacity and size with a round that packs a good punch. I have since bought a XDm 3.8c 40 but my Glock 22 is still my favorite. I have no problem with 9mm and think it's an effective round I just choose .40.

tongix
03-14-2012, 07:05
.40 SW for me bec its more powerful . Whats not to like in a more powerful round.

1911ES
03-14-2012, 07:05
Well allrighty then ......... some pretty good pros leaning towards the G23 .40 cal, with the availability to change out barrels to accommodate the 9mm and hyper .357 SIG round.

Thanks for all the response ......... :goodpost:

mj9mm
03-14-2012, 07:12
A lot of testing went in to selecting the 10mm for the FBI after the miami shootout. The FBI then discovered a lot of agents could not handle the 10mm so they whacked it back to 40. I remember reading the test results years ago, the 10mm blew the doors off of the 9 and 45, I think they went too far with the 40 though.
Yes, i always wondered, why in R&D, they didn't work it up a little hotter, since in its present design it fits too close to the lesser 9mm and the greater 45acp. the 40 is already to much for some people, so the 9mm works its way back in the picture anyway.:dunno:

frank4570
03-14-2012, 07:19
I have a few cop/swat friends. They tell me that service calibers are all about the same. One told me that in his experience shooting a real bad guy just pisses them off most of the time, regardless of caliber. Of course, they do bleed out eventually.

SC Tiger
03-14-2012, 07:20
When I bought my G22 I originally was looking at a .45. The problem was that all the .45 ACP Glocks (even the slim frame and single stack ones) were too big for my hands (I have wide hands but short fingers). The .40 just felt right. The .45 GAP isn't very popular around here.

The ability to convert it to a .357 Sig was another reason I went with the .40. I didn't know about the 9mm conversion barrels (figured it would cause extractor/ejector issues) until after I got it.

silentpoet
03-14-2012, 07:39
To me the 40 is neither fish nor fowl. Not enough power advantage over good 9mm. Not enough price advantage over .45ACP. Slightly reduced capacity compared to 9mm, not enough of a capacity advantage over .45. Not saying it is a bad round, but just doesn't make enough sense to me. If I had a bigger budget maybe, but I prefer either 9mm or .45acp.

MtBaldy
03-14-2012, 07:51
Yes, i always wondered, why in R&D, they didn't work it up a little hotter, since in its present design it fits too close to the lesser 9mm and the greater 45acp. the 40 is already to much for some people, so the 9mm works its way back in the picture anyway.:dunno:

The initial 180 gr rounds were designed for the FBIs barrier tests and not so hot on people. The current lighter weight rounds are equal or better than most .45 rounds and superior to almost all 9 mm rounds. Compare what's in my G23 below to any round chambered for a gun you might actually want to carry and it can hold it's own:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/wscott52/GoldDot165.jpg

scccdoc
03-14-2012, 07:52
It's widely used in law enforcement,good one shot stop,increased magazine capacity over the 45, and moderately priced ammo.I own 2 ,G4's ,22 and 27,shoot a 40 BEFORE you buy.They are not for everyone,the recoil is more than you may expect............DOC

magic
03-14-2012, 07:54
I used to only have .40 guns. Wife didn't like to shoot them, so I got rid of my 40s and replaced them with 9mm guns. Now, wife can shoot anything we own, and I don't have to worry about another caliber ammo to buy. Although, I am forgetting about her 380 and my 357, 38, 223 and 22LR. :whistling: Ok, so I still buy more ammo, but we only carry 9mm and 380.

byf43
03-14-2012, 08:19
For years, I didn't want to like the .40 S&W.
I have had several 9mm and .45 acp pistols, so, I thought that I was 'set'.

Then, I started hearing/reading about the .40-9mm conversion barrels and being able to have a 2 caliber gun. Then, the .357 Sig barrel addition to have a 3 caliber gun, all rolled into 1!!

To 'push me' towards the .40, a good friend of mine wanted me to shoot his issued G22, because he couldn't get it to group.

So, I fired a magazine full, and with the exception of the first shot, they were all clustered into a nice group.

Here's that group. (Crappy cellphone pic. Sorry.)
Shot at 11:00 was the first round I ever fired from a .40. 15 yards. Standing. 2-hands. Modified Weaver Stance. "Issue ammo. Federal HST."
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/G22-Federal165grJHP10yds.jpg

So, I decided to buy a G23.
Then, a BIG bag of .40 once-fired brass was (literally) dumped on me. (90 lbs of brass!!)

Diesel McBadass
03-14-2012, 08:23
40 has a bit of snap to it i find .45 to be more pleasant to shoot and I shoot better with 9mm than anything. .40 ain't bad, if i have a chance to shoot a gun i will. But I'm never buying a .40.

Bren
03-14-2012, 08:46
40 has a bit of snap to it i find .45 to be more pleasant to shoot and I shoot better with 9mm than anything. .40 ain't bad, if i have a chance to shoot a gun i will. But I'm never buying a .40.

Pleasant shooting is definitely the way to pick your self-defense calibers. After all, Isaac Newton said if your ammo is unpleasant for the shooter, it'll be unpleasant for the shootee and who wants unpleasant self-defense shootings?:rofl:

aircarver
03-14-2012, 08:53
I prefer shooting 9mm for cheap practice fodder.

I prefer a .45 for 'serious social purposes' ..... :supergrin:

I have a .40 (Steyr) for 'cognizance of shooting .40 issues'.
I think the ammo for it is too expensive for 'fodder'
The police like .40 because of slightly more power than a 9mm, and the blunt bullet doesn't over-penetrate like a 9.

.

scccdoc
03-14-2012, 08:55
For years, I didn't want to like the .40 S&W.
I have had several 9mm and .45 acp pistols, so, I thought that I was 'set'.

Then, I started hearing/reading about the .40-9mm conversion barrels and being able to have a 2 caliber gun. Then, the .357 Sig barrel addition to have a 3 caliber gun, all rolled into 1!!

To 'push me' towards the .40, a good friend of mine wanted me to shoot his issued G22, because he couldn't get it to group.

So, I fired a magazine full, and with the exception of the first shot, they were all clustered into a nice group.

Here's that group. (Crappy cellphone pic. Sorry.)
Shot at 11:00 was the first round I ever fired from a .40. 15 yards. Standing. 2-hands. Modified Weaver Stance. "Issue ammo. Federal HST."
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/G22-Federal165grJHP10yds.jpg

So, I decided to buy a G23.
Then, a BIG bag of .40 once-fired brass was (literally) dumped on me. (90 lbs of brass!!)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice shooting ! Do you give lessons??????????????? DOC

byf43
03-14-2012, 09:36
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nice shooting ! Do you give lessons??????????????? DOC


Yes.
The end with the hole goes toward the target.
Squeeze trigger 'til the gun 'bucks'.
Repeat.

Oh!! I forgot to add. . . . . try not to close your eyes when you squeeze the trigger.



All kidding aside -
The guy that owns that G22 is a US Capitol Police Officer.
His groups looked like a shotgun pattern.
I shot that group, and he said, "I friggin' hate you. You wanna go qualify for me, next Tuesday?? 'They' might take my gun away, shooting like I do."

:supergrin:

What P-O'd me, is he gets 100 rounds per month of "Duty Ammo" for practice!!!!
He's 'urinating away' 100 rounds of HST (now Gold Dots) and his groups are larger than a paperplate!!!
Sheeeeeeeeesh.

aircarver
03-14-2012, 09:44
...What P-O'd me, is he gets 100 rounds per month of "Duty Ammo" for practice!!!!.....

Many cops don't use their practice ammo..

My brother used to get all the practice ammo he wanted from the rangemaster, 'cuz they wanted it shot up... 'Use it or lose it' ....

...Oh well, I wasn't a taxpayer in his jurisdiction ...... :rofl:

....But I was jealous .....:supergrin:

.

Deanster
03-14-2012, 09:56
Following up on Bren and MtBaldy, I feel the .40 is intended from the ground up to be a 'cop round', and its main advantages really stand out in situations more common to police officers than people carrying for personal reasons.

That said, it works out to be an incredibly versatile and functional round for many uses. I'm pretty confident my next couple guns will be chambered in .40.

While it's positioned between the 9mm and .45 in many people's minds, I don't think that's the whole story. As MtBaldy noted, the original design of the round was intended to be a winner in barrier tests, which is an area where both 9mm and .45 often fall far short. Car windshields in particular are a nightmare barrier for both those rounds. 9mm doesn't have enough total energy to punch through, and .45 is so chubby that it tends to spread the energy across enough area that it won't penetrate, or bounces off at higher angles.

The .40 is in a really nice sweet spot, where it has more than enough energy to penetrate, and a narrow-enough profile to punch through, rather than splat. 10mm, of course will do the same, but the gap between common 10mm and .40 loads isn't very large, and 10mm requires a considerably larger weapon. Full-house 10mm is a whole other story, but it's both uncommon and snappy enough to discourage a lot of people.

So, if we stipulate that 9mm, .40 and .45 work roughly equally well against attackers wearing t-shirts, .40 doesn't really have a place if all the situations you envision needing a firearm involve open-air, lightly clothed assailants. But for police officers, or anyone else for whom possible scenarios include barriers, heavy clothing, or complex environments where a barrier might be involved, the .40 all of a sudden starts looking like a wonder round.

You gain an awful lot of situational flexibility over a 9mm while only losing a couple rounds capacity, while keeping a 9mm-sized frame.

For me, at least, that makes it a super-attractive option. For example G23 is almost perfectly placed between my G21 and G26 in terms of size and capacity, and represents what might be the 'ultimate' in someone looking for a balanced firearm - capacity, size, weight, power, versatility of the round, etc.

13+1 rounds of barrier-capable highly-flexible ammunition in a G19-sized package! Any wonder that LE Agencies have jumped on this like a box of fresh donuts?

The only place .40 falls profoundly short, IMHO, is 'fun to shoot at the range', as others have mentioned also. The very snappy impulse isn't in any sense 'fun' for me. But that seems like a small price to pay for the 'ultimate' balance in all the other areas.

One final thought is that .40 makes a heck of a pistol-caliber carbine round - another great sign of the flexibility of the round and underlying concept.

RayB
03-14-2012, 10:29
So, I fired a magazine full, and with the exception of the first shot, they were all clustered into a nice group.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a366/byf43/G22-Federal165grJHP10yds.jpg




I had assumed, as I'm sure the rest of us did, that that was the warning shot... ;)

--Ray

faawrenchbndr
03-14-2012, 10:31
I tried the .40 S&W for a while,........saw no benifit over 9mm or 45

RayB
03-14-2012, 10:40
Pleasant shooting is definitely the way to pick your self-defense calibers. After all, Isaac Newton said if your ammo is unpleasant for the shooter, it'll be unpleasant for the shootee and who wants unpleasant self-defense shootings?:rofl:


Newton, though brilliant, was after all, a Liberal. :supergrin:

I don't think too many B&E guys have been overheard to comment, "It's okay! He's only got a 9 mm!" :thumbsup:

And the big, sloppy wounds from the .45 ACP, proved themselves in two World Wars, and various other military pursuits, to be really bad news... :faint:

--Ray

BrewerGeorge
03-14-2012, 11:20
I am a 20 year "forty" advocate who has been convinced that the newest bullet technology now tips the tables towards 9mm again. My next gun will soon be a G17.

If you get good, LE loads, the terminal effect of a 9mm will be comparable to that of the 40 S&W. Plus, you get less of a snap in the recoil and a few more rounds in the same size mag.

I won't ever sell what I have, and my carry piece is a G23 that I adore, but if I had to make the purchasing decision today, I'd get a G19.
This is almost exactly what I was planning to say. Twenty years ago, 9mm performance was definitely in the "marginal" range for shooting humans - high end or marginal, surely, but still. I chose the G22 at that time (still own it) and argued against the 9mm at every opportunity. However, two decades of advances in bullet and propellant tech have moved the 9mm solidly into the "acceptable" range. Yes, of course those same advances have been applied to modern .40SW rounds, but the improvements there weren't really needed; in a sense they're overkill.

My last 3 of my last 4 guns purchases have now been 9mm as a result - G26, CM9 and Sub2k, 4 of 5 if you count the 9mm conversion barrel for the G22. (Last one was a .380 TCP.)

dosei
03-14-2012, 11:37
I have not yet found any reason that was good enough for me to get a 40. 45 for me, 9 for the lady. If my hand were too small to grip a 45 properly, I may well have gotten a 40. If my wife was not so recoil sensitive, I might have gone with a 40 for her (her hands cannot properly grip a 45, only a few 9/40 guns that actually fit her hand properly). But...my hand are plenty big and she has petite, short fingered hands and is hyper sensitive to recoil...so for me/us the 40 offers nothing.

scccdoc
03-14-2012, 12:15
Yes.
The end with the hole goes toward the target.
Squeeze trigger 'til the gun 'bucks'.
Repeat.

Oh!! I forgot to add. . . . . try not to close your eyes when you squeeze the trigger.



All kidding aside -
The guy that owns that G22 is a US Capitol Police Officer.
His groups looked like a shotgun pattern.
I shot that group, and he said, "I friggin' hate you. You wanna go qualify for me, next Tuesday?? 'They' might take my gun away, shooting like I do."

:supergrin:

What P-O'd me, is he gets 100 rounds per month of "Duty Ammo" for practice!!!!
He's 'urinating away' 100 rounds of HST (now Gold Dots) and his groups are larger than a paperplate!!!
Sheeeeeeeeesh.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You would be mad at me also,lol ....... DOC

tuica
03-14-2012, 12:23
The most significant new caliber (in widespread use), invented since the 45ACP. Have always preferred that larger round, but the 40 S&W comes close to 45 power with a larger mag capacity. Cheers.

bac1023
03-14-2012, 12:24
I'm not much of a 40S&W fan, but I do own a half dozen handguns chambered in it for variety.

It is a great SD round. I just prefer 9mm and 45ACP.

Feanor
03-14-2012, 13:28
I'm not much of a 40S&W fan, but I do own a half dozen handguns chambered in it for variety.

It is a great SD round. I just prefer 9mm and 45ACP.

:whistling:

sns3guppy
03-14-2012, 14:19
I own .40 s&w handguns made by Beretta, Sig, Kahr, Para-ord, Glock, and others. I like .40. No complaints.

I have 9mm and .45 acp, and .45 will likely always be my favorite, but my daily personal carry when home a Sig P239 in .40. It works.

powder86
03-14-2012, 14:43
i don't own a .40, but that's not because i think it's ineffective or anything. probably the biggest thing is just because I've always heard how snappy the recoil is for .40.
I've owned a 9, and now a 45. i felt the 45 was superior to the 9, but i can't say 45 is really any better than the 40. they're both great rounds.

TN.Frank
03-14-2012, 14:52
There wasn't a 40cal that i really liked until I got a PX4 Storm. Took a lot of the snap out of that round. Also going to 180gr sub-sonic loads takes out some more snap BUT having just got back into a 1911a1, 45acp I can tell a big difference between the 40S&W Ctg. and the 45acp, the 45acp has less recoil IMHO. I'm sticking with 45acp for my serious semis from here on out. It's worked for 100 years, must be pretty good.

bac1023
03-14-2012, 15:18
I'm not much of a 40S&W fan, but I do own a half dozen handguns chambered in it for variety.

It is a great SD round. I just prefer 9mm and 45ACP.

:whistling:


Do you have another problem, Feanor?

What can I explain to you this time? :dunno:

Taphius
03-14-2012, 15:26
45 +p power in a 9mm size frame, Any caliber is adaquate though.

I find I shoot my 23/22 better than my 17 or 1911 so 40 seems to like me

Sent from my Inspire 4G using Tapatalk

Ahmid
03-14-2012, 16:16
I feel I have more control shooting a 45. The 40 seems to be a bit snappier.
I believe both are superior defense calibers...

fwm
03-14-2012, 17:06
My own shooting has left me convinced the .40 penetrates 'cover' (timber, car glass, light steel ...) better than both the 9mm and the .45.

Other studies have shown that the 9, 40 and 45 penetrate ballistic gel just about the same.

So if I need to defend myself from someone that is taking refuge from me behind a car, I want 'cover' penetration first.

So I carry the .40

bac1023
03-14-2012, 18:02
I feel I have more control shooting a 45. The 40 seems to be a bit snappier.
I believe both are superior defense calibers...

:agree:

I agree on all points.

T-Rod45
03-14-2012, 19:02
Assuming all guns are about the same size, I also agree with the whole 9-45-40 in terms of recoil/control.

The only 3 .40 cal guns I've ever shot were a PPS, a heavily modded 1911 IPSC gun, and my Gen4 Glock 23. The PPS in .40 sucked so bad that I sold it (my fault for not waiting for a 9mm because the gun itself was SWEET), the 1911 is my g/f's fathers and is silky smooth, and the 23 is right in the middle.

I find that practice makes perfect. Being that the 23 has recently taken over as my EDC, I make sure to put at least 50-100 rounds down range per week. I've been experimenting with bullet types and weights as well. I practice defensive drills including point-shooting single shots and double taps up from my strong side, and manage to keep everything tight and center mass. With single shot drills I don't even notice the .40 snap to be honest...

stolivar
03-14-2012, 19:14
Caliber: 40 S&W
Bullet Wt.: 140gr DPX
Velocity: 1200fps
Energy: 448ftlbs

increase stopping power.
Caliber: 9mm Luger Plus P
Bullet Wt.: 115gr CORBON Self-Defense JHP
Velocity: 1350fps
Energy: 466ftlbs
Test Barrel Length: 4.0 Inches

steve

Cole125
03-14-2012, 19:21
Fact, using modern self defensive ammunition, the difference in stopping power between 9mm +p+ and .40 S&W is very little. So little a BG is NOT going to be able to tell the difference.

Combine that with a gun that is cheaper to shoot, holds more rounds, and most people can shoot a 9mm better than a .40.

sns3guppy
03-14-2012, 19:31
In retrospect, my own use of .40 is largely due not to superior anything, as the .40 isn't; it harks back to times when I carried 9mm and shot and reloaded a lot of 9mm. When scooping up brass, there was something unscientific and entirely visual about finding the 9mm cases disappearing inside the .40 brass that eventually led me to picking up a .40 handgun, and then another, and then another.

Eventually I ended up shooting .40 a lot, and while .45 ACP and .45 LC are my favorite, I found I really do like .40.

9mm offers no disadvantage, and it's universal, inexpensive to reload, easy to shoot, offers higher capacity (for those who are interested in that sort of thing), and lies between .38 spl and .357 in performance, and has a wide range of loadings and capabilities to match most needs. There's something psychological about the slightly larger bullet.

I do remember firing an M9 at the range when someone showed up with a Beretta 96. It made a louder boom; noticeably so. Again, nothing scientific, but the resonance or intrinsic satisfaction of shooting bigger was perhaps the catalyst for carrying and shooting .40. It's not a better cartridge or chambering, and it really runs at a higher pressure; it's maxed out all the time, which isn't a plus in my opinion. It's harder on brass, harder on firearms, perhaps a little snappier (though after shooting it for a while it's just like any other cartridge; it goes boom); it's just a little more satisfying, I guess.

That may not be a good reason to use it, but after having bought a couple safes full of .40, I'm not likely to stop shooting it any time in the near future.

tgmr05
03-14-2012, 19:52
Some folks have pretty much summed it up best for most 40 aficianados. The 40 offers no real advantage when using modern sd ammo, other than it makes them feel better. They are willing to give up a couple extra shots, faster second/third/fourth, etc shots, to be able to have a 40. Plus, so many le guys have them.

I have a 40, just to have one, because you simply never know if you can always get/have 9mm or 45. Otherwise, I much prefer 9mm and/or 45. The 40 is OK, just not the best at either compact concealabilty/usage with modern ammo, or the best when using hardball. A nice compromise, though. I will not be tossing mine aside...


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tgmr05
03-14-2012, 20:10
I used to think the 40 was only for experienced shooters. Of course, I used to think a 300 weatherby and/or 338 win mag was only for experienced deer hunters, too. Only sissies used lesser calibers. Then I became truly experienced, and realized the truth/reality. Use enough gun, and become extremely proficient with it.

When it comes to handguns, 9,40,45 there is no true advantage in power, so go with the most comfortable compact package you are extremely proficient with. It is much easier to become proficient with less recoil and less expense, and much easier to stay proficient.



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G26S239
03-14-2012, 21:38
Ballistically its up there with the best of the best.
It was developed from the need for more ooomph in the 9mm which at that time was pretty anemic.
First it was the 41AE then came the 10mm and then the 40.
10mm predated the 41 AE by several years.

Sgt127
03-14-2012, 21:41
We are issued Glock .40's. I generally buy off duty guns in .40. I can run by the range and shoot up some department ammo on occasion. All they have at the range is .40. If we issued 9mm, I wold likely buy more 9mm guns. Same for .45...357 SIG...

The caliber is almost trivial for me anymore. I think bullet technology has really put most of the major rounds in roughly the same playing field, advantages and disatvantages to any one of them equal out to a wash for me.

Cole125
03-14-2012, 22:14
The caliber is almost trivial for me anymore. I think bullet technology has really put most of the major rounds in roughly the same playing field, advantages and disatvantages to any one of them equal out to a wash for me.

Exactly. Look at the ballistic gel tests of any of the quality modern self defensive ammo in 9mm, .40, and 45. There is not much difference in cavity size.

Sammael
03-14-2012, 22:26
Do you have another problem, Feanor?

Nope, he's just trolling... as usual. :yawn:

PattonT
03-14-2012, 22:48
Well, before Ireally got into guns I was in a class for the Army they called the combat handgun course with a guest speaker from Sig Sauer. One of the know it all guys in the class said, "I don't know why we have a handgun caliber other than 45". The speaker woke me up when he said he didnt know why there was a caliber other than a 40sw. This guy made some very persuasive points for the 40. He strongly recommended carrying as a armed citizen the exact gun as your local police. A defense attorney can very easily persuade a jury that his client protects himself and his family with the exact firearm the police protect you with. As well as the 40, which performs as well or Better than a 45, sounds mild to a juror. It most only be a little bigger than a 38 right?
As far as a 40 having harder recoil, don't you think a intended target feels a harder hit to produce hydro shock?

I remember getting fitted for a second chance vest and the guy asking if I was carrying a 40 and I replied that I was. He surprised me when he stated I would have to go with a level IIA vest because my old Level II vest was only rated for some 9 and a few 40's but most all 45 rounds were good to go. I was surprised to find this to be true and that LevelIII was required for 357sig and 44mag.

bac1023
03-15-2012, 04:46
Nope, he's just trolling... as usual. :yawn:

Pretty much...

JoeCitizen
03-15-2012, 08:46
There's only one down side I can think of to getting into the .40S&W. Sooner or later you will come to the inevitable conclusion you really don't need a 9mm or .45acp anymore. Oh, they'll be nice to have around so you can tell the guys at the range you have them. But there will no longer be a need to rely on chambering's inferior to the .40. In fact, had the .40S&W been developed first the 9mm and .45acp would have never gotten off the ground.

scccdoc
03-15-2012, 12:11
There's only one down side I can think of to getting into the .40S&W. Sooner or later you will come to the inevitable conclusion you really don't need a 9mm or .45acp anymore. Oh, they'll be nice to have around so you can tell the guys at the range you have them. But there will no longer be a need to rely on chambering's inferior to the .40. In fact, had the .40S&W been developed first the 9mm and .45acp would have never gotten off the ground.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:supergrin:

tgmr05
03-15-2012, 15:05
In fact, had the .40S&W been developed first the 9mm and .45acp would have never gotten off the ground.

Probably not, as the semi-auto gun industry would have blown itself up and off the map as a feasible alternative to revolvers with all the kabooms. The revolver would still be king, with the 45 colt at the top of the hill...... Good point...

concretefuzzynuts
03-15-2012, 16:11
All three rounds have pretty similar penetration performance. I choose .40 G 22 Gen 3.

AK_Stick
03-15-2012, 17:44
I don't particularly like 40, because of the snappier recoil. If I'm going to step up in terms of recoil and performance, I see no reason for a half step to the 40, when I could go all the way to one of my 10mm's.


Anything a 40 can do, my 9mm can do just as well, and with less recoil, so I don't see a need to change.

Veedubklown
03-15-2012, 18:02
The police went to the .40 because of perceived shortcomings, real or not, in the "stopping power" of 9mm guns. From what I read most departments still think the .40 is a more effective round than 9 mm. Some departments are returning to the 9mm but I think the decision has more to do with economics than effectiveness.

The round itself, is indeed more effective. It's superior to 9mm in every way, except for when you actually wanna use it.

There's alot of fans of 40 cal>9mm for carry. If you have 9mms for carry, that's great. Hell, .45's are even great. If the recoil of a .45 makes it more difficult to land effective shots, the .40 with it's higher pressures, is worse. Shoot what your most effective with. I prefer 9mm, the glock 27 was too snappy in such a tiny gun. The 36 in 45ACP is also fantastic! I just didn't like the .40 cal G27.

T-Rod45
03-15-2012, 18:25
... Shoot what your most effective with. I prefer 9mm, the glock 27 was too snappy in such a tiny gun. ... I just didn't like the .40 cal G27.

I agree, shoot what you can shoot well. I favor the Glock 26 over the 27, that's why I carry one. The .40 recoil in my 23 however is more than manageable, so I carry that as well... If I had a problem with it, I'd surely carry a 19 instead.

hogship
03-15-2012, 22:02
For concealed carry, my thinking is five round magazine is better in .40, than 6 round magazine in 9mm.......

ooc

Snaps
03-16-2012, 12:10
I have a few cop/swat friends. They tell me that service calibers are all about the same. One told me that in his experience shooting a real bad guy just pisses them off most of the time, regardless of caliber. Of course, they do bleed out eventually.

wait what? I've been in 2 different wars and have yet to see getting shot piss anybody on either side off. I do believe he's mesing with you.

L Pete
03-16-2012, 15:01
I have one......only one, just because everyone else has one. My only reason. It will not do any better than my 45s, and 9mm ammo just gets better. It's not a "carry" piece for me. I prefer my G-36 or a Kahr CM9. My G-22 is basically for the range when I have ammo for it. It is a safe queen and trading fodder. That's what I think of the .40.

oldnoob
03-16-2012, 16:56
I love 40s&w. I think it's a great caliber for shooters like me who dislike the larger pistol platform that come with 45acp. And it's a great performance caliber too. Ammo is cheaper than 45acp (about the same with 38sp).

oldnoob
03-16-2012, 17:09
I personally think the whole "hard to control" is just lack of practice. During the 2007~2009 "ammo shortage period". It was so difficult for me to find the more popular 9mm ammo. So I end up shooting lot more 40s&w. When the ammo came back to market, I was shooting 40s&w much better than my 9s. Your hands/body will learn how to control the recoil.

oldnoob
03-16-2012, 17:12
Pleasant shooting is definitely the way to pick your self-defense calibers. After all, Isaac Newton said if your ammo is unpleasant for the shooter, it'll be unpleasant for the shootee and who wants unpleasant self-defense shootings?:rofl:

:rofl:

:thumbsup:

oldnoob
03-16-2012, 17:19
Also, for a civilian like me. It's a great plus that 40s&w pistol platform usually allow you to do simple caliber conversion. After I got my Glock 22, I sold/traded off my G17, 19. For I got a conversion barrel (LWD 40-9) to shoot 9mm, and a stock G31 barrel to shoot 357sig. It's nice to pack just one gun with you and can shoot all 3 caliber at the range.

I'm plan to do the same with my G27.

JoeCitizen
03-16-2012, 17:39
My wife is 5' 6" about 145lbs and I would rate her as a novice with firearms. She wanted to start taking it more seriously and asked to start going with me to the range. After one trip she wanted to get a handgun of her own and get a cc permit. After shooting a few different .22, .380, 9mm she decided on a Kahr CW9. By our second time out she had about 300 rounds through her Kahr. She got curious about my HK P30 and wanted to shoot it. I told her it was a step up in power as it was a .40S&W. After her second magazine full through it I asked her what she thought. She said she liked it and didn't mind the DA/SA and adapted to it fine. I asked her about recoil and she said she could tell it was more pronounced but didn’t bother her. I then said "You wouldn't believe all the pissing and whining that goes on by grown men on the gun boards about the difficult to manage .40 recoil." Her reply "You've got to be kidding me." She tried my G27 and said she could get used to it after a few to several magazines. Now she's eying a Kahr in forty or a G27 of her own. And this is a woman that has way less than a cumulative thousand rounds total through all guns she’s fired in her life.

Deanster
03-16-2012, 17:45
So, based on my post earlier in this thread, I talked myself into buying my first .40.

Got a late model 3rd generation G23 with Glock (mepro) factory night sights and the Glock holster that my LGS had sitting waiting for someone to love it!

TSAX
03-16-2012, 18:07
:popcorn:, threads like this are always interesting, the .40 SW rounds is like Dr. Pepper (9mm is Pepsi and 45 ACP is Coke). Some like it some dont and it does have a good spot between the 9mm and 45 ACP






:50cal:

oldsoldier
03-16-2012, 18:12
I had a G27 and a Springfield XD in .40S&W and neither worked for me. I sold the guns about 2 years ago but kept about 6K 180g bullets, brass, powder, etc. Two months ago I decided to give the caliber another chance to use up the components. Yeah I know I could have sold the stuff but where is the fun in that? I decided on a SIG P229 and it changed my mind on the .40. It has become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I think one of the problems people have with the .40 is that the manufacturers shove a cartridge in a gun better suited to 9MM. Just my opinion of course.

T-Rod45
03-16-2012, 18:18
I have one......only one, just because everyone else has one. My only reason. It will not do any better than my 45s, and 9mm ammo just gets better. It's not a "carry" piece for me. I prefer my G-36 or a Kahr CM9. My G-22 is basically for the range when I have ammo for it. It is a safe queen and trading fodder. That's what I think of the .40.

C'mon! Tell us how you really feel!!! :rofl:

flynlead
03-16-2012, 18:24
I had a G27 and a Springfield XD in .40S&W and neither worked for me. I sold the guns about 2 years ago but kept about 6K 180g bullets, brass, powder, etc. Two months ago I decided to give the caliber another chance to use up the components. Yeah I know I could have sold the stuff but where is the fun in that? I decided on a SIG P229 and it changed my mind on the .40. It has become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I think one of the problems people have with the .40 is that the manufacturers shove a cartridge in a gun better suited to 9MM. Just my opinion of course.

I agree, except I have always liked the .40 in my glock but really like it in my Sig


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G26S239
03-16-2012, 18:37
I had a G27 and a Springfield XD in .40S&W and neither worked for me. I sold the guns about 2 years ago but kept about 6K 180g bullets, brass, powder, etc. Two months ago I decided to give the caliber another chance to use up the components. Yeah I know I could have sold the stuff but where is the fun in that? I decided on a SIG P229 and it changed my mind on the .40. It has become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I think one of the problems people have with the .40 is that the manufacturers shove a cartridge in a gun better suited to 9MM. Just my opinion of course.
The 229 is an outstanding pistol. :wavey:

T-Rod45
03-16-2012, 19:50
I had a G27 and a Springfield XD in .40S&W and neither worked for me. I sold the guns about 2 years ago but kept about 6K 180g bullets, brass, powder, etc. Two months ago I decided to give the caliber another chance to use up the components. Yeah I know I could have sold the stuff but where is the fun in that? I decided on a SIG P229 and it changed my mind on the .40. It has become one of my favorite guns to shoot. I think one of the problems people have with the .40 is that the manufacturers shove a cartridge in a gun better suited to 9MM. Just my opinion of course.


I have to agree. I had a .40 Walther PPS and HATED it. My Gen4 G23 is not bad at all and the .40 1911 I shot was fine... I think .40 just needs some heft to keep it in check. Thats why all my sub compacts are 9mm or smaller.

stolivar
03-16-2012, 22:30
10mm predated the 41 AE by several years.

41 mag in 1964 and the 10mm in 1983



steve

Cole125
03-16-2012, 22:38
Also, for a civilian like me. It's a great plus that 40s&w pistol platform usually allow you to do simple caliber conversion. After I got my Glock 22, I sold/traded off my G17, 19. For I got a conversion barrel (LWD 40-9) to shoot 9mm, and a stock G31 barrel to shoot 357sig. It's nice to pack just one gun with you and can shoot all 3 caliber at the range.

I'm plan to do the same with my G27.

Yeah that is the good thing about .40 caliber Glocks, having 3 calibers in one pistol. 4 calibers if you get a .22 lr conversion kit.

If having a .40 caliber makes you feel better, carry on. If you think the BG is going to "go down" any faster if you shoot him with a .40 than a 9mm +p+ your wrong plain and simple. As has been said its all about shot placement, and at the end of the day a handgun is a underpowered weapon in any "service caliber". Just the way it is.

T-Rod45
03-16-2012, 22:50
... at the end of the day a handgun is a underpowered weapon in any "service caliber". Just the way it is.

Underpowered compared to a rifle, of course. But more effective than anything else. Like you said, it's all about shot placement. Use any "service caliber" and hit the heart, liver, lung, kidney, eye, ear,... You should be ok.

G26S239
03-16-2012, 23:25
First it was the 41AE then came the 10mm and then the 40.

10mm predated the 41 AE by several years.

41 mag in 1964 and the 10mm in 1983



steveYes, the 41 Magnum very clearly predated the 10mm by almost 20 years. However what johnd was referring to was the 41 Action Express which was developed by Evan Whilden in the late 1980s to put closer to 45 power in guns like the Browning Hi Power by using a 41 caliber cartridge with a rebated rim to fit a 9mm breechface and allow for dual caliber guns with 9mm Luger and 41 AE.

March817
03-17-2012, 00:09
:popcorn:, threads like this are always interesting, the .40 SW rounds is like Dr. Pepper (9mm is Pepsi and 45 ACP is Coke). Some like it some dont and it does have a good spot between the 9mm and 45 ACP
:50cal:
Would that make 10mm like Mountain Dew?

gumbee
03-17-2012, 01:40
Would that make 10mm like Mountain Dew?
And the .50GI a 7-UP? Yes, it's after midnight here in CA. and I'm getting silly.

bac1023
03-17-2012, 05:08
10mm predated the 41 AE by several years.

Huh?

The 41mag has been around nearly twice as long as the 10mm.

crazymoose
03-17-2012, 05:13
Huh?

The 41mag has been around nearly twice as long as the 10mm.

The .41 AE is not the same as the .41 Mag. The .41 AE was a rebated-rim .40 caliber cartridge (firing off a 9mm breachface). As a round, it is superior to the .40 S&W. However, S&W was in the right place and time with their marketing.

BuckyP
03-17-2012, 05:32
The .41 AE is not the same as the .41 Mag. The .41 AE was a rebated-rim .40 caliber cartridge (firing off a 9mm breachface). As a round, it is superior to the .40 S&W. However, S&W was in the right place and time with their marketing.

I remember the .41 Action Express cartridge. There were reliability issues with the rebated rim, so I wouldn't say the .41 AE was superior to the .40. Perhaps it had superior ballistics.

PrecisionRifleman
03-17-2012, 07:42
Would that make 10mm like Mountain Dew?

More like Red Bull! :tongueout:

stolivar
03-17-2012, 07:48
Yes, the 41 Magnum very clearly predated the 10mm by almost 20 years. However what johnd was referring to was the 41 Action Express which was developed by Evan Whilden in the late 1980s to put closer to 45 power in guns like the Browning Hi Power by using a 41 caliber cartridge with a rebated rim to fit a 9mm breechface and allow for dual caliber guns with 9mm Luger and 41 AE.

Cool. I like learning.......


steve:wavey:

bac1023
03-17-2012, 07:56
The .41 AE is not the same as the .41 Mag. The .41 AE was a rebated-rim .40 caliber cartridge (firing off a 9mm breachface). As a round, it is superior to the .40 S&W. However, S&W was in the right place and time with their marketing.

I was thinking 41mag. Yes, I'm familiar with the AE round. I just missed that.

DetroitMike
03-19-2012, 22:14
I have a Glock 23 and love it. I have shot both the 9mm and the 45 and it is the "Goldie Locks" of the bunch. Price aside it is the best balance for self defense with more than enough stopping power but wont over penetrate where you end up the assailant (keeping my backstop in mind). Besides that overall philosophy. I chose the .40 for three reasons:

1. Official- If LE uses it, I'm using it.

2. Snappy- It lets me know it's about to do some damage.

3. Versatile- barrel swapping is a plus.

Feanor
03-19-2012, 22:33
Do you have another problem, Feanor?

What can I explain to you this time? :dunno:

Nope, he's just trolling... as usual. :yawn:

I'm not much of a 40S&W fan, but I do own a half dozen handguns chambered in it for variety

Trolling? :rofl: Trolling is exactly what your pal does everytime he posts some outrageously pretentious silliness, as he has once again done here. I quoted it for you. Some of you, just post compulsively. :wavey:

crazymoose
03-20-2012, 00:05
I remember the .41 Action Express cartridge. There were reliability issues with the rebated rim, so I wouldn't say the .41 AE was superior to the .40. Perhaps it had superior ballistics.

Fair. It did have some pretty hot ballistics for a round coming out of a 9mm-sized gun. Durability issues that popped up with .40 S&W were probably even worse with the .41 AE.

3000fps
03-20-2012, 08:52
The .40 S&W, because it drops black bears with 1 shot like a sack of rocks.

3000fps
03-20-2012, 09:19
Something also to ponder, when your heart rate is 180bpm and someone is attacking you, or shooting at you, are you going to be more accurate with a 9mm than a .40?

Also, the Speer Gold Dot 124+P seems to recoil just the same as 180 grain gold dot .40 S&W. Everyone complains about 40 recoil but shoots +P 9mm.

If I had to choose between the G23 and G19, I'd get the G23 and then purchase a 9mm conversion barrel. It's a win win.

The only loads in .40 that I shout which gave me a problem were the 165 grain Winchester PDX1's those had some real bite to them.

I went from carrying 40, to 9, now to 45. My only problem is I couldn't find any regular Ranger-T's in 230 grain so I have the +P's. Can't wait to feel the recoil on those bad boys lol.

I'm at a .45 now because I want the best caliber to STOP someone. Unlike 9mm or .40 I'm not going to be in a prolonged gunfight with other people and have to share ammo. Chances are if I need it it will be 1-2 people and over fairly quickly. I don't really need 40 rounds of 9mm. I know a few on here will get mad at that, but I feel perfectly fine carrying 21 rounds of Ranger-T .45 +P's

jb1911
03-20-2012, 09:22
I have 9mm and .45 handguns and am totally satisfied with both. I have no desire for a "do-it-all" caliber. I don't dislike the idea, just have no desire for one.

HKLovingIT
03-20-2012, 11:07
Yes, the 41 Magnum very clearly predated the 10mm by almost 20 years. However what johnd was referring to was the 41 Action Express which was developed by Evan Whilden in the late 1980s to put closer to 45 power in guns like the Browning Hi Power by using a 41 caliber cartridge with a rebated rim to fit a 9mm breechface and allow for dual caliber guns with 9mm Luger and 41 AE.

Is that a roundabout ancestor to something like .357 SIG?

wjv
03-20-2012, 11:36
I have 9mm and .45s. . If I could do it all over again I'd probably would pick the .40 exclusively as I could then consolidate on one ammo format.