Hickok45 Testing Ruger Scout Rifle [Archive] - Glock Talk

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AA#5
03-14-2012, 14:48
Love those Ghost Ring sights & the big mag. Looks like the worlds only Bolt-Action Assault Rifle.

I've never seen a bolt action that throws the brass farther than an autoloader.

Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle ( Chapter 2 ) - YouTube

IV Troop
03-14-2012, 15:27
Hickok has made a name for himself doing these reviews. He is one of the extremely few I care to listen to.

Hummer
03-14-2012, 17:03
I've been looking at that rifle, with the light weight and short barrel it would be a good gun for hunting elk in heavy timber. I'd want to put some bright optics on it though.

RedsoxFan4Lyfe
03-14-2012, 17:17
It's nice to see a company implementing a concept that the late, great Col. Jeff Cooper has been lamenting for many years now.

I recall Styer or some other company doing something with a Scout rifle configuration many years ago, but I assume Ruger is the first to go "mainstream" and do it at an affordable price point as well.

Heckler&Koch
03-14-2012, 17:21
I love his videos.

Amsdorf
03-14-2012, 17:31
Hickok45 is a class act.

Big Bird
03-14-2012, 18:28
I love watching Hickock's videos. But you can tell he's a pistolero not a rifleman. Someone who knows how to make a bolt gun sing would never take it off their shoulder to cycle the action. And as far as how far a bolt gun throws brass--that's strictly a function of how hard the shooter retracts the bolt.

robtest
03-14-2012, 18:50
"I like it... I like to shoot... Life is Good!"

words to live by... LOL

nipperwolf
03-14-2012, 18:53
But you can tell he's a pistolero not a rifleman.

Agreed. He hit his first shot, and then missed the next three.

paynter2
03-14-2012, 19:10
It's nice to see a company implementing a concept that the late, great Col. Jeff Cooper has been lamenting for many years now.

I recall Styer or some other company doing something with a Scout rifle configuration many years ago, but I assume Ruger is the first to go "mainstream" and do it at an affordable price point as well.

I thought Savage had a Scout rifle?

Edited to add... Why would you want a muzzle brake on a Scout rifle? I thought the whole idea was a compact package. Am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong - I've got a 6mm Ruger 77 - old style with the tang safety and barrel band front sight. Been shooting it for a long time.

clancy
03-14-2012, 19:11
I wish Ruger would mill the receiver to take M-14 stripper clips. You can throw a lot of lead from a bolt action rifle in a relatively short period of time with them. The SMLE being perhaps the best example.

jknight8907
03-14-2012, 19:44
Yeah, he sucks with a rifle. :upeyes:

CZ 527 at 230 yards - YouTube

m2hmghb
03-14-2012, 20:21
[QUOTE=jknight8907;18711649]Yeah, he sucks with a rifle. :upeyes:
/QUOTE]

Didn't see anyone say he sucks, just that he's more familiar with a pistol. They're right, someone who is used to a rifle won't take it off their shoulder to cycle the action, especially on a short action like a .308. I would love to have one of them.

nastytrigger
03-14-2012, 20:41
I'll say it once, I'll say it again... Hickok45 for President!

I've started listening to his radio shows. Call me crazy, I started watching his videos for the shooting. Now, I like listening to him and want less shooting.

bac1023
03-14-2012, 20:44
I love his videos.

:agree:

bac1023
03-14-2012, 20:45
Hickok45 is a class act.

No doubt :cool:

Boats
03-14-2012, 22:22
He's pretty lonely as the one rational Glock fan on YouTube.:supergrin:

SigFTW
03-15-2012, 06:33
I enjoy watching his videos, he is not narcissistic like some of the other guys.

Brucev
03-15-2012, 06:56
Would be thrilled if Ruger would produce a left-handed bolt-action rifle as a option for all of the calibers they currently chamber. If available, I'd buy one in .308 Winchester, etc.

itstime
03-15-2012, 07:12
I just have to say what everybody else does. I love that man.

faawrenchbndr
03-15-2012, 07:37
A. It's NOT an assult rifle!

B. Seems you have never shot a Ruger Mini 14

Bilbo Bagins
03-15-2012, 09:06
I like Hickok45. Down to earth guy, doing what he likes. I watch him a lot.

The scout rifle looks interesting, but the $999 MSRP price is insane.

TalkToTheGlock
03-15-2012, 09:48
He is a class act. I love his reviews.


iPhone 4

AK_Stick
03-15-2012, 10:17
I just don't get the "scout" rifle concepts validity in this day in age.

It's big, heavy, akward, and mounting the scope out that far gives you no advantages over a traditionally placed scope.

I agree with the comment that Hickok can't really run the bolt gun the way it should be run, but I do enjoy his reviews and the common sense approach he takes to them.

sns3guppy
03-15-2012, 12:13
It's big, heavy, akward, and mounting the scope out that far gives you no advantages over a traditionally placed scope.

Cooper's original concept for the scout scope arrangement was primarily for short-range, both eyes open shooting of dangerous game, particularly during a charge. It allowed unfettered access to the action and loading. The scout scope is a long eye relief low fixed power scope.

I like the arrangement. I use it on a Springfield SOCOM 16, with an aimpoint, rather than a scout scope, using the factory mounting base. It works just fine.

I use it on a Marlin 1895, with the X/S scout mount, and a Leupold Scout Scope. It's a sub-3x magnification that I can shoot with both eyes open. The effect is similar to using an EoTech or aimpoint, except with slight magnification. For users of an aimpoint or eotech with the separate magnifier, one is left to swing the magnifier out of the way or detach it entirely when switching from a magnified long range shot to a CQB type use, or one must switch one's head or weapon position to look past the magnification optic. This isn't necessary with the scout scope.

There's a lot of merit to the scout concept. The use of a forward mounted scope increases cross-peripheral vision, and leaves the shooter less encumbered by a big optic in his face.

adamg01
03-15-2012, 12:28
I guess they are ok but I would prefer an Ar-10 over a scout rifle.

AK_Stick
03-15-2012, 12:29
You can shoot a regularly mounted scope the same way, while offering more magnification on the high end and a better handling weapon. Look at how the African express rifles are set up, you'd be hard pressed to find a faster handling rifle designed for encounters with dangerous game.

Coopers "scout" concept was more of a all around rifle where you couldn't use a semi auto. As 308 isn't a dangerous game cartridge I don't see how that would make any sense at all

flysubcompact
03-15-2012, 12:54
I enjoy watching his videos, he is not narcissistic like some of the other guys.

Amen to that. The main reason I like watching his stuff is because he is a man of great experience but he can present without looking like a "know-it-all".

If he misses the mark, he misses...just plugs on and learns/corrects. Good attitude.

mac66
03-15-2012, 13:52
Having been a devotee of Cooper from many years I have to say that the scout rifle concept is (to quote the man himself) "a solution to a problem that doesn't exist". I've used and made a number of scout rifles. I carried them and hunted with them including one of the Steyr Scouts. It just doesn't do anything better than a conventional rifle.

The Ruger Gunsite rifle is one of those things that seems cool. Again however, it doesn't really do anything that any other bolt action can't do at a fraction of the cost, or that any semi auto with a detachable mag can't do better.

I am however still a big Ruger fan.

Big Bird
03-15-2012, 16:14
You can shoot a regularly mounted scope the same way, while offering more magnification on the high end and a better handling weapon. Look at how the African express rifles are set up, you'd be hard pressed to find a faster handling rifle designed for encounters with dangerous game.

Coopers "scout" concept was more of a all around rifle where you couldn't use a semi auto. As 308 isn't a dangerous game cartridge I don't see how that would make any sense at all


Having talked with the man himself and sipped bourbon with him on the veranda I will tell you the primary advantage of the forward mounted scope straight from the Col's mouth.

1st and foremost it permits reloading with stripper clips. Now obviously, Ruger never got the memo on this or choose to ignore it.

2d. It allowed unobstructed access to the chamber for loading or clearing a malfunction.

3. A forward mounted scope allows for better peripheral vision in close.

You are correct, the Scout was never envisioned as a dangerous game rifle--rather it was a utilitarian general purpose rifle that could be used in close or to quote the Col "Well beyond Fort Mudge"

The box magazine likewise was not considered a detachable ammunition source--rather it was envisioned to serve more like a SMLE magazine. The gun was to be loaded from the top--again using stripper clips.

The advantages to a Bolt gun over a semi-auto are numerous. First, its easy to get a good trigger on a bolt gun and nothing is more important to good riflery than than a good trigger. You don't get good triggers on most semi-auto rifles of any useful caliber. (The COL considered a .223 a carbine not a rifle). That's by and large true--most HK G3 or FAL triggers are pretty abysmal affairs. An M14 trigger can be made good to a point. But they generally don't come nice. Its not big trick for any gunsmith to make a bolt action trigger both sweet and reliable.

Bolt actions are simpler guns with less moving parts--self evident.

Bolt actions weigh less than their semi-auto counterparts. Yeah, I'll agree with that. Check the weight of a Ruger Scout against a G3, FAL or M14...the Scout beats em all by a couple of pounds! That's not insignificant.

Accuracy--a bolt gun is inherently more accurate than a semi-auto. Again--generally true. Its hard to make something like a .308 caliber gun very accurate with all the moving gas pistons, bolts, springs, etc. Most military grade .308 semi-autos are 2-2.5 MOA guns with GI ball at best. You can spend a lot of money on something like an M14 and stick a heavy barrel on it and glass bed the action and its still only going to be a 1 MOA gun--which is fine. I won many HP rifle matches with a 1 MOA gun. David Tubb can't hold a rifle to 1 MOA across the course. But at the end of the day bolt actions tend to be more consistently accurate than Semi-autos.

Ammunition: .308 Bolt actions don't care whether you shoot hot 190 gr match bullets, weak cast bullets at 1900 fps or standard weight 150 grain ball. Most semi-autos are made for 150 grain ball. Period.

So what the Cooper was going for with the Scout Rifle was simple, rugged, reliable, jack of all trades--master of none with superior accuracy and flexibility in terms of what you could feed it. In the hands of a well practiced rifleman it was a weapon to be feared. But a rifle is an instrument that requires skill that not many have to use effectively. People who know their way around a rifle range "get" the concept.

faawrenchbndr
03-15-2012, 16:22
Ruger strayed so far from Col Cooper's "Scout concept" that the
rifle they marketed is little more than a sales gimick. There are a crapload
of these rifles on the used market. The action of the bolt sux,
I stopped there after trying the action on four rifles.

I applaud Ruger for trying to market the Col's idea of the Scout rifle,
but I believe the failed miserably with this concept.

stopatrain
03-15-2012, 18:34
I love his videos.

Me too!

jolly roger
03-15-2012, 18:57
Like to meet old Hickok45 sometime. Very good reviews and he seems pretty level headed unlike a few other gun "celebs" I have met along the way.

Zombie Steve
03-15-2012, 18:57
Ruger strayed so far from Col Cooper's "Scout concept" that the
rifle they marketed is little more than a sales gimick. There are a crapload
of these rifles on the used market. The action of the bolt sux,
I stopped there after trying the action on four rifles.

I applaud Ruger for trying to market the Col's idea of the Scout rifle,
but I believe the failed miserably with this concept.

I tend to agree... the two I've seen are pretty sloppy.

faawrenchbndr
03-15-2012, 19:25
Loved the concept, had plans for it as a non-scoped rifle.
Love Hickok45's videos,........

joecoastie
03-15-2012, 20:00
I think it was a mistake for Ruger not to use a more common magazine like the SR-25/DPMS Pmag. Wouldn't mind having a bolt action that shared the same mags as my LR308.

jknight8907
03-15-2012, 20:08
I think it was a mistake for Ruger not to use a more common magazine like the SR-25/DPMS Pmag. Wouldn't mind having a bolt action that shared the same mags as my LR308.

They use AICS mags which are probably the most common bolt gun magazines in existence.

Also, Accurate Mag makes some double stack mags that are compatible.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

AK_Stick
03-15-2012, 20:23
The AI mag, while perhaps the most common bolt gun mag, or second/tied with the badger ord mag, is still no where near as popular as the 7.62 semi auto mags. Of which, just about anything from an FAL, to a M-14, or a P-mag would have been an infinitely better choice.

joecoastie
03-15-2012, 20:40
They use AICS mags which are probably the most common bolt gun magazines in existence.

Also, Accurate Mag makes some double stack mags that are compatible.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

The AI mag, while perhaps the most common bolt gun mag, or second/tied with the badger ord mag, is still no where near as popular as the 7.62 semi auto mags. Of which, just about anything from an FAL, to a M-14, or a P-mag would have been an infinitely better choice.

Yep, pretty much what AK_Stick said, plus I'm pretty sure all three of those mags he mentioned are cheaper.

jeager
03-15-2012, 20:55
Wonder how a "scout" would do in the 338 Federal cartridge!

Gary1911A1
03-16-2012, 01:55
I thought Savage had a Scout rifle?

Edited to add... Why would you want a muzzle brake on a Scout rifle? I thought the whole idea was a compact package. Am I missing something?

Don't get me wrong - I've got a 6mm Ruger 77 - old style with the tang safety and barrel band front sight. Been shooting it for a long time.

They did. I have one and I'm pleased with it overall. Don't know why it never caught on. Maybe Ruger is just better at marketing.:dunno:

fowler
03-16-2012, 04:56
The ruger scout is a nice rifle ,but a good scout rifle that can fire faster and load faster is 1903A3 Springfield with stripper clips. A good bolt man does not lower the rifle when the bolt is worked for fast repeat shots. Alot of people do this even with a lever action when working the action,but there is no reason to loose your site picture on fast repeat shots by lowering the rifle. A good boltgun rifleman with a 1903A3 is fast,fast accurate shooting and fast reloads almost seam less,very ,very fast. The Marines used the real scout rifle the 1903. The Ruger scout is a nice rifle toy with alot of gingerbread and semi-auto rifle look,but its shoddy made boltgun there is better. Looks like the Spanish mauser fr8 in 308 that had a Cetme type flash hider. Stooting a steel target range is fun ,but they all look the same. You shoot cling the plate goes ,very shallow.

AK_Stick
03-16-2012, 06:52
A 1903A3, isn't really a "scout" rifle.

Its just an classic battle rifle from the early 1900's. The exact same could be said of the Mauser 98, Enfield, and SMLE.

fowler
03-16-2012, 10:24
Yes all the bolt battle rifles are better. Don,t tell the Marine scouts and raiders you can,t scout with a 1903 Springfield in WW2. The Ruger Scout rifle is a make believe toy for armchair web commandos and steel plate fanasy fun ranges.

m2hmghb
03-16-2012, 10:32
Yes all the bolt battle rifles are better. Don,t tell the Marine scouts and raiders you can,t scout with a 1903 Springfield in WW2. The Ruger Scout rifle is a make believe toy for armchair web commandos and steel plate fanasy fun ranges.

Fowler there is a big friggin difference between Marines using an ISSUED combat bolt action rifle to a scout rifle. The Springfield is NOT A SCOUT RIFLE. It's a BOLT ACTION MAIN BATTLE RIFLE.

rls303
03-16-2012, 10:43
230 yrds with a glock 23 it does not get any better !

CJStudent
03-16-2012, 11:13
Fowler there is a big friggin difference between Marines using an ISSUED combat bolt action rifle to a scout rifle. The Springfield is NOT A SCOUT RIFLE. It's a BOLT ACTION MAIN BATTLE RIFLE.

He's already made up his mind; little things like facts and logic aren't going to factor in.

s&wfan
03-16-2012, 13:10
FPSRUSSIA VS HICKOK45 - YouTube

joecoastie
03-16-2012, 14:46
Fowler there is a big friggin difference between Marines using an ISSUED combat bolt action rifle to a scout rifle. The Springfield is NOT A SCOUT RIFLE. It's a BOLT ACTION MAIN BATTLE RIFLE.

You know in the Superman comics how the bullets bounce off of Superman's chest? That's pretty much what happens when you use facts and logic with fowler.

fowler
03-16-2012, 15:52
Gentlemen I know what the Cooper concept was for a scout rifle. I was reading his work in the 1960,s Guns and ammo magazine 40 something years ago. Col. Cooper was a gruff outspoken man and he was mostly right. Even in his gruffness his twist of words was comman sense. Yes the point is there is no magic to the Ruger so -called scout rifle that a real rifleman can shoot rings around it faster with a good battle bolt action rifle like a K98,( Which the Germans made a forward mount long eye -relief low power ZF-41 scope in WW2,Hum A scout rifle?) A Enfield or a Springfield battle rifle. The toys and bells and ginger bread don,t make the Ruger a good scout rifle,but maybe for web commando,s or Youtube cartoons.

Narkcop
03-16-2012, 18:31
I REALLY like my Ruger scout rifle, thats all I got to say about that!:supergrin:

CAcop
03-16-2012, 19:55
You can shoot a regularly mounted scope the same way, while offering more magnification on the high end and a better handling weapon. Look at how the African express rifles are set up, you'd be hard pressed to find a faster handling rifle designed for encounters with dangerous game.

Coopers "scout" concept was more of a all around rifle where you couldn't use a semi auto. As 308 isn't a dangerous game cartridge I don't see how that would make any sense at all

Cooper had a weight limit in mind, 200 kilos (440 pounds)was what he decided was the largest thing he wanted to shoot with a scout rifle. I recall him writing that it was meant for anything on North America in .308. He also approved of a "lion scout" in .350 Rem.

Free Radical
03-16-2012, 20:34
A man comfortable in his own skin.

AK_Stick
03-16-2012, 21:11
Cooper had a weight limit in mind, 200 kilos (440 pounds)was what he decided was the largest thing he wanted to shoot with a scout rifle. I recall him writing that it was meant for anything on North America in .308. He also approved of a "lion scout" in .350 Rem.


440 lbs isn't even good enough for black bear in several places in the lower 48, much less the larger bear found in the northern wilds of NA.



The problem is, with any good mind, there are occasionally bad ideas.


This was one of them. No amount of sugar coating it will ever fix the fact that the scout rifle, as he himself said, was a solution to a problem that didn't exist.

It looks cool, it was a neat idea, and it doesn't have to be anything more than that. The problem comes when people try to defend the idea. Hell, I even like the rifle, but it doesn't mean I find it useful.

Big Bird
03-17-2012, 16:25
Gentlemen I know what the Cooper concept was for a scout rifle. I was reading his work in the 1960,s Guns and ammo magazine 40 something years ago. Col. Cooper was a gruff outspoken man and he was mostly right. Even in his gruffness his twist of words was comman sense. Yes the point is there is no magic to the Ruger so -called scout rifle that a real rifleman can shoot rings around it faster with a good battle bolt action rifle like a K98,( Which the Germans made a forward mount long eye -relief low power ZF-41 scope in WW2,Hum A scout rifle?) A Enfield or a Springfield battle rifle. The toys and bells and ginger bread don,t make the Ruger a good scout rifle,but maybe for web commando,s or Youtube cartoons.

I'll take issue with that.

The 03 Springrfield was a good rifle. But it had several shortcomings. The biggest in my opinion was the length of pull of the stock. This causes the rifle to bump your thumb into your nose under recoil. The short buttstock on an 03 rifle A1 or A3 doesn't matter--was a compromise on the overall length of the rifle between the Cavalry Board and the Infantry Board. The Cavalry board wanted to keep the overall length of the gun down and the infantry board didn't want to cut the barrel. So they shortened the buttstock.

Except for the A3 variant all the bolt action battle rifles you mentioned have open sights. Open sights SUCK for rifle work. Compared to a peep or a ghost ring sight, open sights suck for good shooting at any distance beyond a hundred yards.

Second, a scout has a box magazine and can hold way more ammo than a 5 shot military rifle. Not a huge advantage--but nonetheless.

Third, most military rifle have no provision for a scope of any kind and unless you modify the safeties on most of them you won't be mounting any useful optics.

Lastly, military battle rifle weigh more than a good scout with optics.

chris in va
03-17-2012, 18:51
FWIW I really enjoy my CZ 527, similar in concept. Light, handy, quick to shoulder. Frankly I wouldn't want to shoot a 6 pound 308 for very long and that's why i like my x39.


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fowler
03-18-2012, 08:17
Yes I like the 1903A3 peeps and in a scout which I have no need for a Savage 10FCM Scout in 308,but it does come in 762x39 mm to. No box magazine to get in the way and no useless flash hider for more muzzle blast.

Wet Dog
03-20-2012, 19:59
I REALLY like my Ruger scout rifle, thats all I got to say about that!:supergrin:

I REALLY like mine a lot too.

I have CZ and Remington bolt guns that don't get a lot of use anymore thanks to the Ruger. About the only other bolt gun that gets any use anymore is my 1903 A3 - mainly used for military rifle / Tommy Atkins matches.

The worst part about owning a GSR is that anyone who feels the Ruger didn't pedantically adhere to the Colonel's gospel will feel the need to tell you so.

To the guy who said they're available on the used market PLEASE let me know where they are!

This is me playing "Web Commando" with my GSR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqsyFxm-3ms

sns3guppy
03-21-2012, 00:36
The problem comes when people try to defend the idea.

I don't see the idea particularly threatening or in need of defense. I quite like the scout arrangement on my 1895 and on my M1A.

AK_Stick
03-21-2012, 00:48
I'm glad you like it, but mounting a scope on your rifle "scout" style, doesn't make it a scout rifle.


It also doesn't make any sense, except to look cool.

More power to you if thats your deal.

BUG'S
03-21-2012, 05:50
Only problem is that it is a ROOGLER; no thanks.

MoneyMaker
03-21-2012, 06:15
he better go grab his glock as he sure cant use a rifle for sure!!!

bob_fuller
03-21-2012, 15:51
my mosin throws brass farther when I have to beat the freaking bolt open with a 2x4 :whistling:

4TS&W
03-21-2012, 16:07
I enjoy FPS Russia and Hikok45's videos...

They have to suffice when weather and/or finances do not allow me to go shoot, which lately, has been a lot..