Snugpak JungleBag Sleeping Bag - Comment/Question [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Bolster
03-16-2012, 11:04
Awhile back, I saw an S/P poster favorably comment that he owned this bag. Snugpak is a reputable manufacturer as far as I can tell. I had the opportunity to buy this bag for $53 so grabbed one. Very light and compact, 27 ounces. Nice. Great for keeping in the car for that unexpected situation.

I tried sleeping in it two nights ago, at an empty house that's remote from where I live. I was sleeping on a cot with this bag. The (functioning) heater for the house was turned to 64 degrees that night. I was wearing longjohn bottoms and a fleece sweater (over a t-shirt) top and socks inside the bag (I wanted to keep the bag as clean as possible, which is why I had all my skin covered--I wasn't concerned about being cold at the time I went to sleep. California, heated house, body covered in clothes, bag rated to 45...)

I was really cold that night. Woke up a half dozen times, curled into a ball to retain warmth.

This bag is rated "45 degrees comfort / 36 degrees low" by the manufacturer.

How is it possible I was sleeping in a heated house at 64 degrees, wearing 'johns, socks, and a fleece sweater, and was freezing my arse?

What do these ratings of 45/36 mean? I was 20 degrees above the "comfort" rating and quite uncomfortable. Never had this experience in a sleeping bag before. :dunno:

SFCSMITH(RET)
03-16-2012, 11:27
1)Personal comfort levels are relative.. If you are married you should see this everyday..lol

2)A cot without a pad or insulation under you is the worst scenerio because the insulative value of the bag is lost when your body compresses it against the cot surface.

3)No lie, sleeping naked is warmer than sleeping with your clothes on. It allows the insulation of the bag to do it's job, rather than your long johns trying to hold the heat in.

4)Most body heat is lost through your head, if it is outside the bag, as most do when in a sleeping bag, your body losses heat trying to warm your brain.. wear a sleeping hood or cap. Uncle Sam issues them.

I have slept out in places and weather that would boggle most people mind, and have learned a bit over the years.

Try your experiment again, on a sleeping pad, in just your basic skivies or less.. hat if needed.

Bilbo Bagins
03-16-2012, 12:18
I was really cold that night. Woke up a half dozen times, curled into a ball to retain warmth.

This bag is rated "45 degrees comfort / 36 degrees low" by the manufacturer.

How is it possible I was sleeping in a heated house at 64 degrees, wearing 'johns, socks, and a fleece sweater, and was freezing my arse?

What do these ratings of 45/36 mean? I was 20 degrees above the "comfort" rating and quite uncomfortable. Never had this experience in a sleeping bag before. :dunno:

Its very possible when the bag sucks. :rofl:

A couple things to think about. You used just a cot alone or did you have a pad or blanket as insulation underneath. I can tell you the thing that sucks about hammock camping is that you have zero insulation underneath you. When you use a sleeping bag in a hammock, especially a down bag, the insulation of the bag below your body compresses and loses R value. Cold outside air then blows across the bottom of the hammock, and you get a a condition called CAS (Cold Ass Syndrome). Usually hammock campers use a pad, a piece of foam, or some reflective material to prevent CAS in the in the spring and fall, while most use an underquilt (a quilt that hangs under the hammock) in the winter. If your cot was a thin material its possible cold air was stripping the heat below and was coming in from underneath you. Was it a heavy cotton canvas type cot, or a thin nylon or poly cot?

Still even if you are a naturally cold person, you were bundle up pretty well with clothing and at 65 degrees you should have been fine in a 45 degree sleeping bag.

Even a cheap bag rated at that level should have kept you warm, so it was either heat loss because of the cot, or you got ripped off with the bag.

Here is some info on the comfort ratings
http://www.rei.com/expertadvice/articles/sleeping+bag+backpacking.html#EN_Temperature_Ratings

humanguerrilla
03-16-2012, 13:00
I use a Snugpak Softie Merlin as my go to bob sleepingbag. I think it is good for the great size and weight. It is the lightest I'd go in a two season bag. I'll often use a silk liner and the snugpak bivy with it. You want to keep the stuffing lofted if you can and don't store it in the sack for long periods.

The junglebag is their lightest bag I think.
http://www.snugpak.com/index.php?MenuID=93-101&ItemID=71
I'd say it is really made for the jungle. Doesn't have the good softie and or reflectatherm filling Snugpak is about. If a bag says for indoor use anywhere in the description I wouldn't want it for anything except the ideal.

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn460/humanguerrilla/shelter.jpg

G29Reload
03-16-2012, 15:25
How is it possible I was sleeping in a heated house at 64 degrees, wearing 'johns, socks, and a fleece sweater, and was freezing my arse?

Because you're from LA.

:rofl:


Seriously. I dated a secretary from the LA Times years ago. We caught up online a few years later and were chatting about life. She remarked the weather had turned colder and she was freezing, had to turn on the HEAT. Why?

It's in the low 60's, she said!

That's not cold. To me anyway. Drafty at best.

You really get spoiled with that kind of weather. Gonna be really rough if you ever move anywhere else. Just sayin...:supergrin:

Bolster
03-16-2012, 15:59
LOL, funny replies, thanks!

Well clearly one mistake I made was to just sleep on the cot (a Slumberjack, probably nylon) with no insulation underneath. Thanks for that tip; next time I'll at least put a blanket down or take a thermarest pad.

Snugpack is a respected brand, so I would not expect blatant lying about the rating.

For the record, I have stored it loose in an oversize bag since purchasing it new so it could "loft" appropriately. I never store bags compressed. But yeah, I would have compressed the bottom of the bag with my body weight against the cot.

I bought the bag specifically for indoor use, or summertime use. I thought with a comfort rating down to 45/low to 36 I would have no problem sleeping inside at 60 degrees.

About acclimation, yes, it's real. But I would not expect to be 20 or 30 degrees out of whack with the bag rating!

I'm going to call Snugpak and see what they say.

jtull7
03-16-2012, 16:35
We set our thermostat at 64 in the late fall and never change it until May. We have in-floor radiant heat. And, it gets really cold at 7,000 feet in the winter.

cyrsequipment
03-16-2012, 16:37
I would say that there is a difference between "feeling cold" and "being cold". My wife and I live in the same house and experience the same temperatures and even sleep in the same bed (well, she sleeps, I lay awake listening to her snore...) and the two of us have VASTLY different opinions of what is comfortable in regards to temperature.

She is always cold, even when the room is left 74 degrees or even higher. I'm comfortable at 62 and when sleeping I'd even prefer 58. Neither of us expereinces a drop in core body temp at any point and my wife swears that my skin temp is "freezing" compared to hers, but I'm very comfortable with a lower skin temperature.

Temperature and comfort are two rather subjective things when it comes to the human body. That bag is probabily designed for a 50th percentile camper (I assume, I have no idea how they really rate bags) but I'd hazard a guess that I'd roast in that sleeping bag if I used it inside my house. I've used fairly modestly rated sleeping bags to sleep in some rather cold conditions without complaint.

People are different, that is why it is always best to test out your gear when your life isn't on the line.

Bolster
03-16-2012, 17:24
She is always cold, even when the room is left 74 degrees or even higher. I'm comfortable at 62 and when sleeping I'd even prefer 58.

Yep, women on average want to sleep warmer than men do. There are even different EN (Euro Norm) ratings for men vs women. Like you, I prefer to sleep in the low 60s. So I don't think the entire fault of the cold night can be laid at the feet of my being unusually warm blooded. I suspect part of the problem was the cot with no insulation. But...

I am curious if I got a defective bag...it feels as if there's virtually no insulation in it at all. Maybe 1/8" max when you compress it between finger and thumb.

Agree to test it before it's important.

Aceman
03-16-2012, 20:03
Poncho liner.

syntaxerrorsix
03-17-2012, 07:49
I have the same bag. I've slept in it down to 29 degrees so far this year. I was tent camping and used a Thermarest pad and my poncho liner. I slept through the night but I was cold by morning. With the same setup I'm good down to about 40 degrees.

Keep in mind that it's a "Jungle" bag. It's got some R value but it's primary use is tropical climates.

Mine lives in my GHB and I use it year round in Central and North Florida.

Other folks have already mentioned some basics. The less you wear in the bag the warmer you will be. You need to have something between the compressed side of the sack and the cold air or ground.

Dexters
03-17-2012, 08:03
. I was sleeping on a cot with this bag.


You got some great answers. I'd say the cot is probably why you lost most of your heat - if you didn't have a good insulating pad under you. Your body heat was being lost out the bottom. As others have said, your body weight compressed the sleeping bag, negating the insulating.

As to emergencies - these are good, especially when you consider the weight and price.

Amazon.com: Adventure Medical Kits Heatsheets Emergency Bivvy, Large: Sports & Outdoors@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/418qp4dNOAL.@@AMEPARAM@@418qp4dNOAL

Bolster
03-17-2012, 09:15
I have the same bag. I've slept in it down to 29 degrees so far this year...

Wow! Syntax will you do me a small favor? Sometime, gently pinch the top (or bottom) of the bag between your thumb and forefinger, and estimate how much insulation/fill you feel? Does it feel like maybe 1/8" insulation when compressed? Does your bag feel essentially empty of insulation? When I first got mine I wondered if they'd forgotten to fill it. When I discovered it was made in China instead of Britain (as I thought), my worries ticked up a notch.

Yes, I know it's a tropical bag, but as such I think it should do 60 degrees for me, with or without a pad.

I do like the square cut bottom, though. Roomy inside, I like that.

syntaxerrorsix
03-17-2012, 16:06
Wow! Syntax will you do me a small favor? Sometime, gently pinch the top (or bottom) of the bag between your thumb and forefinger, and estimate how much insulation/fill you feel? Does it feel like maybe 1/8" insulation when compressed? Does your bag feel essentially empty of insulation? When I first got mine I wondered if they'd forgotten to fill it. When I discovered it was made in China instead of Britain (as I thought), my worries ticked up a notch.

Yes, I know it's a tropical bag, but as such I think it should do 60 degrees for me, with or without a pad.

I do like the square cut bottom, though. Roomy inside, I like that.


It does. It's a very lightweight bag.

Bolster
03-17-2012, 20:57
Thanks man.

DocwithGlock
03-18-2012, 14:20
I've used mine down to the low forties on the ground with a thin closed cell foam pad (in a tent), with thermals, socks and was quite comfortable. I have used it camping in a hennessey hammock in florida many times...when the temps dipped below 50-55 it was a bit cool but not cold. when I added a thin pad into the hammock (same kind used in the tent) it was very comfortable into the forties. I have used it jus below freezing on time and I was a little uncomfortable until I put on extra fleece, a hat, and stuck the foot of the bag inside of my jacket. I would not use this bag if I was worried about temps dropping below 40 (unless I had a blanket or some kind of back-up).
The mosquito netting is the best part of the bag. It is a great bad for south florida weather year round.

Bolster
03-18-2012, 16:21
Docwith, same question for you...when you "pinch" your bag, does it seem to have about 1/8" of insulation when lightly compressed?

Must be the main problem I was having was no insulation underneath. Lesson learned, thanks S/P forum.

I am a little surprised that the ratings given for bags assume insulation underneath...

Bilbo Bagins
03-19-2012, 07:50
Because you're from LA.

:rofl:


Seriously. I dated a secretary from the LA Times years ago. We caught up online a few years later and were chatting about life. She remarked the weather had turned colder and she was freezing, had to turn on the HEAT. Why?

It's in the low 60's, she said!

That's not cold. To me anyway. Drafty at best.

You really get spoiled with that kind of weather. Gonna be really rough if you ever move anywhere else. Just sayin...:supergrin:

You know what G29Reload has a point.

I have gone to LA and FL in the winter, and my family would be swiming in unheated pools in 65 to 70 degree weather, while we watch locals wearing winter jackets sipping cocco under those outdoor heaters.

Heck we have had some global warming here in the Northeast where temps have been in the upper 60's and everyone is out wearing shorts and T-shirts.

On the flip side most of warm blooded northern folk shut down and seek A/C when the temps hit +100.

Bolster
03-19-2012, 08:57
...So, maybe bag comfort ratings are created, using Eskimos as the reference pool.

syntaxerrorsix
03-19-2012, 09:03
I've lived in Florida for about 26 years :dunno:

Bolster
03-19-2012, 10:58
So, called Snugpak, they were very friendly and helpful. They say they've not had similar complaints, so they want to inspect the bag. (This particular bag is China outsourced, so...) I'll be returning it, and will report on what they find, if anything.

They tell me their next warmest squarefoot bag is the Sleeper Light Squarefoot, goes down to 32 degrees.

syntaxerrorsix
03-19-2012, 11:11
Cool!

Kieller
03-19-2012, 11:21
1)Personal comfort levels are relative.. If you are married you should see this everyday..lol

2)A cot without a pad or insulation under you is the worst scenerio because the insulative value of the bag is lost when your body compresses it against the cot surface.

3)No lie, sleeping naked is warmer than sleeping with your clothes on. It allows the insulation of the bag to do it's job, rather than your long johns trying to hold the heat in.

4)Most body heat is lost through your head, if it is outside the bag, as most do when in a sleeping bag, your body losses heat trying to warm your brain.. wear a sleeping hood or cap. Uncle Sam issues them.

I have slept out in places and weather that would boggle most people mind, and have learned a bit over the years.

Try your experiment again, on a sleeping pad, in just your basic skivies or less.. hat if needed.

+1, he hit the nail in the head. Slept alot outside also and every point here is true.

If you got a defective bag from China though that could explain a thing or two...

Bolster
03-19-2012, 11:45
Off topic, but haven't you guys been hearing the recent denials about "most heat lost from the head"? I've seen several sources now denying this, saying the head, on a square-inch basis, loses at the same rate as the rest of the body. That's opposite what I was taught, but that's what I've been hearing recently. I'm no expert so can't comment. I just know that the statement "most heat lost from the head" is now controversial. Maybe someone is up to speed on this and can comment?

As I said, OT, because next time I sleep in my JungleBag I'm wearing a watch cap for sure.

Bolster
03-19-2012, 11:47
OK, found it:

"Scientists debunk the myth that you lose most heat through your head."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

But honestly it's #3 that has me the most confused. Don't wear any clothes inside your bag and you'll be warmer? If true, why not summit cold mountains naked under your parka? What about the whole concept of layering? This one has me very confused, indeed. It's almost as if you're saying I was cold BECAUSE I was wearing a fleece sweater inside the bag?? Somebody explain me the mechanics of fewer layers = warmer body?

DocwithGlock
03-19-2012, 13:25
There does not seem like there is a lot of insulation (fill) in this bag. Like it has been previously said, it is a tropical bag. Good that they are going to check it for you.

As far as heat loss from the head, it is mostly myth. It has more to do with %surface area and blood flow. While the skin on the head and face are quite vascular, it is not enough to justify the 30-40% heat loss claims. Yes you loose heat from your head and in a sleeping bag the head is the most likely part to NOT benefit from the protective effects of the bag (unless you are completely covered by the bag...which is not recommended).

Ground temperature and protection from the elements are serious factors that could change the perceived and actual effectiveness of a bag.

syntaxerrorsix
03-19-2012, 15:24
OK, found it:

"Scientists debunk the myth that you lose most heat through your head."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

But honestly it's #3 that has me the most confused. Don't wear any clothes inside your bag and you'll be warmer? If true, why not summit cold mountains naked under your parka? What about the whole concept of layering? This one has me very confused, indeed. It's almost as if you're saying I was cold BECAUSE I was wearing a fleece sweater inside the bag?? Somebody explain me the mechanics of fewer layers = warmer body?

Two issues. One is blood circulation and the other is condensation and sweat.

Bolster
03-20-2012, 00:36
Two issues. One is blood circulation and the other is condensation and sweat.

Aha, that makes sense. Probably neither of these applied to my situation, as the longjohns were a lightweight hydrophobic poly construction, and the fleece sweater was loose.

Glocksanity
03-20-2012, 15:17
4)Most body heat is lost through your head, if it is outside the bag, as most do when in a sleeping bag, your body losses heat trying to warm your brain.. wear a sleeping hood or cap. Uncle Sam issues them.


Actually, that myth has been debunked. The body loses heat relative to the size of the surface of the body part/area that is exposed. The head loses heat no faster than any other part of the body. If the whole body is covered and the head is only portion not covered, then off course most heat loss will occur through the head, but any uncovered part will lose heat at the same rate.