How does everyone feel about Smith and Wesson? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Jmantattoo
03-16-2012, 12:30
Im sure most of you on here have read Glock:America's Gun or know the story of Smith and Wesson selling out to Andrew Cuomo. I understand that they are now owned by someone new and have since parted ways with the gentleman responsible for signing that aweful piece of paper. I hear the M&P's are good guns but I dont think I will ever give The Smith's a shot due to this past. Just wondering if I was alone in this thinking. Im sorry I am not a Glock Fanboy, I do absolutely love them but I am also a fan of the Springfield XD(m) line and other guns. How does the gun owning community feel about SMith now. I know that the yearlong boycott by the NRA is long since over although it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

JaPes
03-16-2012, 12:34
I have warm fuzzy feelings towards S&W.

Syclone538
03-16-2012, 12:36
I actually didn't know anything about it.

The only gun company I boycott is HS Precision.

eracer
03-16-2012, 12:37
I liked the 3rd Gen SA/DA Smiths. For me, Glock > Springfield > S&W.

I own a couple of Leatherman tools, despite the fact that the owner is a known liberal. Don't really care...

Companies exist for the purpose of selling me things. I use the power of my wallet to help prod them into making the best product. I don't play politics with capitalism.

s&wfan
03-16-2012, 12:38
It is flat out idiotic to hold the actions of Ruger and S&W against them during the assault weapons ban years.

GLOCK, Sig, HK, & Beretta are all foreign companies who have the bulk of their business with military/law enforcement and were able to churn out high cap mags at will during the gun ban because they could either sell them as surplus/grandfather them in during the AWB.

S&W and Ruger were US native manufacturers who had to basically grin and bear it during the ban years and try to work behind the scenes to fight what was going on. Their main market was US consumers.

So naturally, S&W and Ruger are going to give soundbites to make it sound like they have no problem with the AWB. They were fighting for their very survival, the Euro gun makers were not.

You have to look at things for five minutes and think about "why".

JBnTX
03-16-2012, 12:47
It is flat out idiotic to hold the actions of Ruger and S&W against them during the assault weapons ban years...

Thank You!

It's also just as stupid to rant on and on about MIM and cast parts.

Smith and Wesson firearms of today are the best that's ever been produced.

Better metal, better machining, but a piss poor quality control program
that lets more lemons and defective guns escape the factory undetected.

That's the only problem with today's S&W firearms.

If you want to let politics dictate your firearms purchases, go ahead.
I don't!

Zombie Steve
03-16-2012, 12:55
Heartburn. I feel heartburn.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/162411_01_md.jpg

s&wfan
03-16-2012, 12:59
Thank You!

It's also just as stupid to rant on and on about MIM and cast parts.

Smith and Wesson firearms of today are the best that's ever been produced.

Better metal, better machining, but a piss poor quality control program
that lets more lemons and defective guns escape the factory undetected.

That's the only problem with today's S&W firearms.

If you want to let politics dictate your firearms purchases, go ahead.
I don't!

I wonder why no one is calling for boycotts on H&K after they got caught selling guns to our enemies in Afghanistan (or was it Iraq?).

And the guy who owns Kahr is kind of a looney, but I'd still own one of their pistols (and/or a Desert Eagle).

clancy
03-16-2012, 13:02
Heartburn. I feel heartburn.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/162411_01_md.jpg

That just doesn't look right.

cowboy1964
03-16-2012, 13:07
Great customer service.

Another 5-10 years and M&Ps may displace Glock as the #1 police pistol.

Adam5
03-16-2012, 13:07
I hear the M&P's are good guns but I dont think I will ever give The Smith's a shot due to this past. Just wondering if I was alone in this thinking.

And let me guess, you will never own anything German because of WWII either?

T-Rod45
03-16-2012, 13:17
While Glock is my favorite pistol brand overall, my favorite pistol model is probably my Smith&Wesson M&P9 Pro...

DonD
03-16-2012, 13:45
Thank You!

It's also just as stupid to rant on and on about MIM and cast parts.

Smith and Wesson firearms of today are the best that's ever been produced.

Better metal, better machining, but a piss poor quality control program
that lets more lemons and defective guns escape the factory undetected.

That's the only problem with today's S&W firearms.

If you want to let politics dictate your firearms purchases, go ahead.
I don't!

I really agree with most of what you've said. Lemons do come out, I'm just not sure that there are so many more than in the past, just the 24/7 nature of the internet lets the dissatisfied blab their unhappiness to the world.

The fact that the S&W revolvers and I suspect the others as well are built of much stronger materials to tighter specs won't stop the "pinned and recessed" crowd from complaining. Nothing but old will make them happy. Even there, I suspect they'd find something to complain about even if the lock were removed. Don

Jmantattoo
03-16-2012, 14:16
And let me guess, you will never own anything German because of WWII either?

Oh no, I dont mind German things, and i was passed down a Smith and Wesson 422. I know they make good guns, that is not the point. I would rather support a company that supports my 2nd amendmant rights though. Smith and Wesson didnt have to agree to anything. I know that the NRA is a little severe at times but you have to be to protect what is important to you. Like I said, I have nothing against Smith's products. I do prefer the Glock and XD to the M&P though. Just feels better to me. If a terrorist was selling hotdogs to pay for parts for a bomb would you buy a hotdog from him? This is kind of my line of thinking.

Glock26z
03-16-2012, 14:21
Thank God,I own all Ruger Products now. Built better and,lasts longer than any humans.

southernshooter
03-16-2012, 14:24
Every S&W I have ever owned or fingered has been like poetry in my hands.

Gregg702
03-16-2012, 14:38
I currently own 5 S&W revolvers, and also 2 Ruger revolvers. I love them all, they work as advertised.

s&wfan
03-16-2012, 15:14
Oh no, I dont mind German things, and i was passed down a Smith and Wesson 422. I know they make good guns, that is not the point. I would rather support a company that supports my 2nd amendmant rights though. Smith and Wesson didnt have to agree to anything. I know that the NRA is a little severe at times but you have to be to protect what is important to you. Like I said, I have nothing against Smith's products. I do prefer the Glock and XD to the M&P though. Just feels better to me. If a terrorist was selling hotdogs to pay for parts for a bomb would you buy a hotdog from him? This is kind of my line of thinking.


Your line of thinking makes no sense. You want to have selective outrage.

If S&W and Ruger had tried to fight the government during the AWB years, they would have had legal fees out the wazoo.

And it's nothing like a terrorist selling hotdogs. That is probably the worst analogy I've seen written in my entire life.

It's more like a guy (S&W) sitting at his work, and a thug (the Clinton government) runs in with a gun to his face and says, "If you voted for Ronald Reagan, I will kill you."

At this point, the guy can either be a brave soul and say, "I voted for The Gipper! Do what you will!" and then heroically brace for a round to the face, or he can make the decision to denounce Reagan as a tyrant (even though he doesn't believe it) because what's on the line is his existence and his ability to continue providing for his family.

So what do you do?

S&W (and Ruger) decided that it was better to live to fight another day.

Fault them for it if you will. It boggles my mind that anyone would.

And also, you don't like the NRA?

Really? Even though, in the face of a very anti-gun government regime, they've won major, major victories in Chicago, Washington DC, and in national parks-related gun owners' rights issues? Ok. Go ahead, don't like the NRA. I'm trying to sign people up.

jtull7
03-16-2012, 16:47
I have never owned a revolver other than S&W. I never will. And, I do own and have owned a lot of revolvers.

oldnoob
03-16-2012, 16:51
S&W? I hear they make great Taurus' 410 revolver clone.











:tongueout: just joking. Don't think too much to it. While I not a revolver fan, they still make quality revolvers (just with a stupid lock on it :upeyes:).

JoeCitizen
03-16-2012, 17:04
Your line of thinking makes no sense. You want to have selective outrage.

Gees, I hope his outrage is selective. I hope everybody's outrage is selective.

Bilbo Bagins
03-16-2012, 17:04
Personally I don't get too wrapped up in the politics of S&W, Like Ruger it all under the bridge at this point.

What always annoyed me about S&W is their pricing

Semi Auto Pistols - Reasonable

AR - Reasonable

642 & 442 .38 snubnose revolvers - Reasonable

Every other revolver - So insanely high it makes a Scalper blush.

SauerChoi
03-16-2012, 17:05
I own a 686 and a 642 of recent productions and I have no complaints. I don't really see what there is to complain about...:dunno:

ronin.45
03-16-2012, 17:40
I love them!

TSAX
03-16-2012, 18:00
S&W makes some quality stuff and some crap, for the most part I like their line, to me the M&P is just behind Glock for CCW. The M&P 15 is a solid AR and priced petty good. They have a good 1911 line and when it comes to revolves they are at the top. They have a lot of variety and a long list of great shooters one their shooting team.

There is a lot of buzz about what they are announcing on 4/12.




:50cal:

DonD
03-16-2012, 18:02
I guess I'll add, I've had 5 Model 500s, .500 Mags since they came out in 2003, won't explain my activity, would take too long.

Only have two now, they're both keepers.

All have had great fit and finish, all very, very accurate and great triggers. Couldn't be more happy with what I've had from S&W. Don

barth
03-16-2012, 18:08
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo09/e7/af/cae49a6d9383__1323313448000.jpg

Bruce M
03-16-2012, 18:08
I like Smith and Wesson revolvers more than other makes. And some of the Smith and Wesson pistols seem very nicely done also. Once when I needed service they were exceptional. It does not seem that long ago when a Smith and Wesson revolver was standard against which both other duty guns and concealed guns were judged. They a very interesting history and have been innovators or inventors of some interesting trends.

Rustin
03-16-2012, 18:12
Glock is a company that has had a very corrupt past. The former Glock CEO was found guilty of racketeering. One of the other ceos tried to assassinate Gaston Glock himself. Glock used stripclubs to promote the pistol. There are other things but I can't think of them. I hope smith and wesson gets back the police market. Nothing wrong with Glock but we should be using an American product.

HKLovingIT
03-16-2012, 18:51
As far as their products: I have/had 6 Products. I still have 4 of them. The only one I had a real problem with was a 442 :dunno:but they were great about it and I have no complaints on their customer service.

Their politics: Business execs come and go as do elected officials and policies. Spend your dollars and your vote in the right place, at the right time. Meaning, back when they were doing something you didn't like, sure boycott them. Now? Why? To "teach them a lesson"? Nah. Everyone makes mistakes, be more forgiving. I forgive you for not liking Smith and Wesson. :whistling: :tongueout: :supergrin:

HexHead
03-16-2012, 19:01
I have a couple hundred shares of their stock.

copo9560
03-16-2012, 19:10
I have owned both Colt and S&W revolvers and found them to both be very high quality, accurate firearms. I like them over Ruger, forged steel just seems stronger than investment castings for the engineer in me. I really have a soft spot for my 4 inch barrel Model 29 even if it does kick a bit more than my Glock 20 with heavy loads.

My wife has a 9 mm S&P which is OK but trigger is inferior to Glock. On the other hand it works for her and with rebates when purchased was a lot less $$.

Wish their M&P Sport would have come out before I took the AR plunge - looks to be a very nice rifle for the money.

S&WGlocker
03-16-2012, 19:45
As my Username points out, I am a Smith fan from waaaaay back.
There isnt another revolver brand that comes close, Ruger is closer than anyone, but Smith is it for me anyway.
I will be buried with a J Frame on my ankle.....and my G30 on my hip.

Look out HELL, here I come and I am packin!!!!

craig19
03-16-2012, 20:59
I love S&W, really love the 3rd GEN autos, in fact I may have a problem.:whistling: I wish they still made them.

ctfireman
03-16-2012, 21:10
I'm a fan. From the 6906 to the m&p.

Feanor
03-16-2012, 21:13
It is flat out idiotic to hold the actions of Ruger and S&W against them during the assault weapons ban years.

GLOCK, Sig, HK, & Beretta are all foreign companies who have the bulk of their business with military/law enforcement and were able to churn out high cap mags at will during the gun ban because they could either sell them as surplus/grandfather them in during the AWB.

You have to look at things for five minutes and think about "why".

The ignorance displayed in your post is so spectacularly staggering, it's not even worth my effort. It's enough to note that it was "William Ruger Sr" who linked up with powerful neo-dems, and helped author the AWB.

Ruggles
03-16-2012, 21:35
They make great stuff IMO. Not concerned with all that mess in the past.

vikingsoftpaw
03-16-2012, 21:36
Older S&W production gives me the warm fuzzies all over. I don't care for any of their current polymere type guns though. They're too Glockish to me.

bac1023
03-16-2012, 21:40
I like the older classic Smith & Wessons.

Sgt127
03-16-2012, 22:54
There was a peiod in the late 70's, early 80's when Smith and Wesson quality control was absolutly pathetic. I knew the DPD (Dallas Range Master at the time. He told me that out of a shipment of 100 Model 64's, 70 of them would not work correctly out of the box. Out of that 70, the armorers got about 60 of them running right and the last ten had to go back to Springfield because they were beyond the abilities of the armorers or, not feasible to fix. I believe that was during the Bangor Punta days.

I bought several new Smiths during that period. Some were outstanding, some went back to the factory.

I worked security at the SHOT show in Dallas in the early 80's. A dealer showed up with a travel dolly stacked up with model 66's. Wanted to go to the Smith booth. We couldn't let unchecked guns in the show. I asked him what the problem was. He showed me one. I looked it over. Seemed reasonably well put together. Then I looked down the bore. No rifling. None. Smooth bore. I went and got a Smith Rep to meet him at the door and they went off in the hallway and chatted.

Now, that era of Smith and Wesson is considered "the good old days". It really wasn't. I own a few more modern Smith and honestly, the quality, fit and finish is better than the ones I bought 30 years ago. The old ones could usually be tuned up and become great guns, but the new ones ain't shabby at all. Except for the lock. I hate the looks of the lock. I hate the fact that they changed the shape of the frame to make it fit. It just looks cheap to me.

mixflip
03-16-2012, 23:54
I love S&W's M&P series of handguns. I call mine a poor mans HK lol.

LawScholar
03-17-2012, 00:02
I like Smith & Wesson, but don't love them.

My completely subjective opinion puts them behind Sig, HK, Glock, Walther, and Beretta signature pistols for quality and quality control, but ahead of most of those companies for customer service.

The M&P9C is my favorite pistol in Smith's current lineup. I've held 3 now and shot 1, and all were unflagging examples of quality and felt wonderful in-hand.

Reb 56
03-17-2012, 00:19
Personally I don't get too wrapped up in the politics of S&W, Like Ruger it all under the bridge at this point.

What always annoyed me about S&W is their pricing

Semi Auto Pistols - Reasonable

AR - Reasonable

642 & 442 .38 snubnose revolvers - Reasonable

Every other revolver - So insanely high it makes a Scalper blush.

Have to agree with you the prices on the L and N frames are way out of line.

DreamWeaver88
03-17-2012, 00:31
If a terrorist was selling hotdogs to pay for parts for a bomb would you buy a hotdog from him? This is kind of my line of thinking.

Do you hate your new neighbors because of the actions of your old neighbors?

Smith & Wesson has new owners that had nothing to do with why you hate them. Why continue to hold a grudge? It doesn't really make sense.

blastfact
03-17-2012, 01:59
This is what I think about S&W.

The best $200 I ever spent on a pistol OTD after rebates, NIB from a FFL buddy.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/S7300185.jpg

Double and triple tap static practice with the cheap-o pistol 7 to 15 yards in N. Little Rock, China Mart retail FMJ.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/Picture_073.JPG

A late 2007 M&P .45,,, what a pistol! First 5 paper plate targets shot out of the box.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/M_Ptrags.jpg

As I use it today.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/mpl630.jpg
That is the best over all side arm I have ever owned.

And we can't forget those poor old MIM and key locked worthless revolvers.

My 686P 4" polished up and that crappy MIM trigger stoned out and springs. My Combat Bling revolver of choice.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/6867.jpg
It fears no over book load. Ruger what?

The Crown Jewell,,, The wife's 60 Pro.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/638/medium/m60pro1.jpg
It is the Smith J. A tad of stone and some basic springs. What a shooter! It makes me giddy when I blast over book rounds through it. And hit my target. And makes me melt when the wife takes her pistol with the same loads and shoots to kill.

Yeah we have a few new Smiths. And will buy more!

bac1023
03-17-2012, 04:41
Heartburn. I feel heartburn.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/162411_01_md.jpg

Man, that's horrible :ack:

bac1023
03-17-2012, 04:49
The ugly lock on new S&W revolvers completely ruins them for me. All I see is the lock when I look at them. On top of that, I hate the whole idea behind it.

eracer
03-17-2012, 05:27
Then I looked down the bore. No rifling. None. Smooth bore.I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how this could be possible. I have some experience in manufacturing, and it seems to me that it would have had to have been 'Bring your blind, autistic children to do your job' day for that to have happened.

series1811
03-17-2012, 05:36
One of the first guns I ever bought was a Smith and Wesson model 49. But, Smith and Wesson jumped the shark a long time ago.

Why they can bring out a J frame in .357, but can't make a K frame in .357 any longer is a mystery to me. And, look at what used K frame .357's go for and tell me there is no market there.

Maybe these new guys can bring them back.

CajunBass
03-17-2012, 05:46
I've got about twenty Smith & Wesson handguns. I admit that most of them are the "classic" ones from the late 40's to the 80's. A couple of them are newer, one even has the dreaded lock. (Oddly enough, that one, a 21-4 "Thunder Ranch" might be the best looking/shooting of them all.)

I don't look at their new stuff very often. I tend to be a used gun guy, but the ones I have looked at look fine to me. The "ugly" lock is just something else on the side of the gun. About like a screw or a pin. It's just there. Big deal.

Me buying older guns has nothing to do with MIN, locks, firing pins on the frame or any of that nonsense. I buy the older guns because they're the ones I wanted when I was a young fellow, pouring over a Shooters Bible like a kid with the Sears Wish Book, and thinking...Man, I'd like to have one of those."

As for the M&P semi-auto...it's just another plastic gun...ho-hum. I did have a Sigma for a while, and it was OK.

s&wfan
03-17-2012, 05:58
Gees, I hope his outrage is selective. I hope everybody's outrage is selective.


Fair enough point. It made sense in my head, him having selective outrage when it comes to holding gun manufacturers' pasts against them, but I didn't write it very well.

s&wfan
03-17-2012, 06:03
The ignorance displayed in your post is so spectacularly staggering, it's not even worth my effort. It's enough to note that it was "William Ruger Sr" who linked up with powerful neo-dems, and helped author the AWB.


It was coming one way or another. He could either try to make it as painless as he could, or watch it. The Dems wanted to outlaw all semiauto pistols, getting in their ear and saying, "Hey, why not just limit mag capacity?" is sound enough.

USMC03Grunt
03-17-2012, 07:56
First off, both Ruger and S&W sold us out, period, dot, thee freakin' end! Their actions were disgusting and I have refused to buy their products for their treason! :steamed: However, time marches on. S&W was bought out by new owners and Gun ban Bill is rotting in the ground. In both cases, the new ownership of S&W and the direction of Ruger's management have changed that I wouldn't feel dirty buying one of their products today. I'm not a big believer in the sins of the father are the sins of the son. Therefore, if they are making a product that meets my needs, I will buy it.
That being said though, I have no loyality to the union mantra of buy only American products. My loyality is to myself, my family and our own finances so if a foreign company is making a better product at a better price, I have no problems buying a Glock, HK, Sig, Beretta, etc. either. I really don't see it as "Un-American" since American's also have to be employed with importing foreign firearms as well.

PzGren
03-17-2012, 08:00
S&W has had changing ownership for a very long time but the design of the guns is what is intrigueing me. I own a Python and a Korth but the S&W K-frame is a work of art. I am a revolver guy and there is just no way around S&W!

I actually just got two more M10s, HB, RB from Buds. They are looking a bit rough but S&W revolvers are really easy to work on - or maybe they are easy for me after about a 30 year love-affair.

I wouldn't have paid $100 for this just 20 years ago, now I consider this a good deal for about three bills.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/Andys2.jpg

1gewehr
03-17-2012, 08:21
I will only buy older S&W pistols until they get rid of the worthless lock. Quality has improved over the past five years, but the difference between a 1970's M19 and any of their newly-made revolvers is obvious.

CBennett
03-17-2012, 08:29
I like S&W a lot! i own S&W's I own Rugers I dont own any Glocks anymore though :)

carloglock19
03-17-2012, 10:58
I like them!

CJStudent
03-17-2012, 13:32
I love my M&P15 Sport and really wish I hadn't gotten rid of my Model 60 Pro Series (damn bad memories of ex's, anyways! :fist: ).

Raiden
03-17-2012, 18:50
I've always felt S&W and Ruger did what they believed they had to do, in order to keep their business afloat during the storm of overbearing hoplophobic legislation. As such, I didn't hold a particular grudge against them at the time, and especially not now. However, my dad and I had terrible luck with S&W revolvers for a decade. We bought six, new or almost-new, and only two were keepers.

Of the four we sent back and forth; two were said to be "within spec" (read, to me, as "our tolerance for lemons is higher than average"), and two were absolute train wrecks with all manner of ill-fitting and rattling components. We eventually got three of those four in fair enough condition, that we didn't feel terrible selling them for a little less than our cost. The last one, we couldn't - in good conscience - sell it to anyone, and it wound up being a garage pistol for years until we just gave it away to the guy who bought our old house. Since then, I've always a bit dubious of S&W revolvers from that time period.

The first semi-auto S&W I fired was a 9mm Sigma, and it was... okay. Nothing wrong with it, but it didn't suit me. It wasn't until just 9 or 10 months ago that I gave another S&W a serious look. Good thing I did, as I fell in love with their M&P pistols. I'm very glad I picked them up. I tend to never forget history, but I'm always willing to look at things objectively, when the opportunity arises.

WarEagle32
03-17-2012, 19:06
My M&P 15 has been back to the factory twice. But it's still a very well made rifle that I trust. It just had some QC issues when it was new so I see the concern. It now runs flawless. However, S&W has no other product that interest me at this point.

IllinoisGun
03-17-2012, 19:42
As a general rule, I like new foreign made pistols and old domestic manufacture revolvers. I won't buy a new S&W if it has the Klinton Hole and I won't buy a new overlawyered Ruger product due to the unsightly warning manual scrolled all about the gun.

So where does that leave me? Well, I buy older S&W handguns. Higher quality, better lines. Plenty of good used S&Ws on the market. Rugers, I've found are well built however with cheaper loose internals. I've never seen too many really tight Ruger revolvers outside their Bearcat line.

As far as contemporary European pistols, I buy and use Glocks extensively for CCW along with older 1990's Sig Sauer P Series for double action fun at the range. I don't have a need nor do I have an affinity for external safeties. I'll be looking for a Walther PPQ in 9MM soon as I am steering away from .45 auto due to that caliber's venerable ammo shortage and the overall high expense of this particular round.

Berto
03-17-2012, 19:44
Fine, really.

craig19
03-17-2012, 19:54
The ugly lock on new S&W revolvers completely ruins them for me. All I see is the lock when I look at them. On top of that, I hate the whole idea behind it.


Brian, do you own an M&P? I know you have a Sigma.

eracer
03-17-2012, 20:14
I was at the range today, and right before I was about to leave a guy rolled up with a S&W .500. I'd never seen one in person so I grabbed my ear pro and watched. Then the guy was nice enough to let me shoot it once.

Recoil was stout, but not nearly as bad as I thought it might be. It was an 8" barrel, which helped (I imagine the 4" model would be a bit..ahem...stiffer.) Still, it was not much more than a sharp 'push' with not a whole lot of muzzle flip, and didn't hurt my hand at all. I wouldn't want to shoot it all day, but like the guy next to me said: "You don't have to." LOL!

Cool gun. I do have to wonder whether I was shooting reduced power loads (it looked like factory ammo, but I didn't scrutinize it.)

Dalton Wayne
03-17-2012, 20:28
Love my 442

Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Tapatalk

Nestor
03-17-2012, 20:36
The best revolvers ever made and good autos. Lot of history behind and good perspectives ahead.

bac1023
03-17-2012, 21:04
Brian, do you own an M&P? I know you have a Sigma.

No, just a Sigma, Craig.

Dogbite
03-18-2012, 07:06
I love Smith revolvers.

cooden
03-18-2012, 07:11
And let me guess, you will never own anything German because of WWII either?

Actually, yes!

Bill Lumberg
03-18-2012, 07:11
We have an office T&Eing them. So far, no match for glock, but they're not bad guns. Having carried and shot all three, I'd go glock, then XD, then sig or M&P as a tie for third. Not that sig and m&p are similar, sig is a far better gun, but m&p would tie due to substantially lower weight.

bac1023
03-18-2012, 07:17
I own more S&W firearms than anything else at 18. The next closest is Colt at 15.

hogship
03-18-2012, 07:26
I've monitored this thread for awhile, and couldn't decide how best to respond......

Yes, there was a time when I refused to purchase anything newly manufactured by Smith......because of the deal they made during the Clinton years. At that time, Smith was owned by a completely different set of executives. Nobody there now is responsible for the "deal with the devil".......so, I would have no problem buying anything from Smith now......and, I have.


The internal lock, to me, is nothing but a symbolic gesture in response to people who know absolutely nothing about guns and how they are, and have been secured since way before it was a PC issue. It's true that the PC issue itself has served to make some gunowners more aware of the consequences of unsecured guns.......but, that internal lock on the Smiths is not wanted, or needed by the gun community, as a whole. It does nothing more than remind us of a gun company that gave in to political correctness.......a symbol of appeasement.

Would I buy a Smith with the IL? Yes, but I'd never do that if the same thing were produced without the lock......I'd rather have a used one without the IL, than a new one with the IL.

I have absolutely nothing against the current Smith and Wesson......I believe they are a great All-American company once again.......but, it's a shame they don't either eliminate that IL, or put it somewhere that isn't so glaringly obnoxious. If they don't realize the IL is nothing more than a reminder of their previous "sell-out", then they must be totally oblivious to what is obvious to the majority of the gun community.

ooc

bac1023
03-18-2012, 07:38
Would I buy a Smith with the IL? Yes, but I'd never do that if the same thing were produced without the lock......I'd rather have a used one without the IL, than a new one with the IL.



:agree:

I have a 460XVR with the lock, but that isn't available without the lock.

Sbh87
03-18-2012, 07:43
I love my 640 (stainless centennial j-frame) and my girlfriend loves her 686. Yes they both have the hated locks on them but it doesn't bother me or her in the slightest. I just ignore it and realize that it's still a Smith and Wesson and best of all its a S&W revolver! There's no other revolver out there in my opinion that comes close to a Smith revolver. I used to own an M&P 40 but sold it due to needing cash. That is another very high quality product and wouldn't be surprised if over the next 5-10 years more police departments in America used that in some variation over the Glock. The 640 is the only S&W I own at the moment. I have three other Rugers a Marlin model 60 and a Winchester 12 gauge. I don't know if I will ever own another S&W as of right now nothing in their line up jumps out at me. Otherwise they have great customer service. They are right in my back yard and I have been to the factory twice for a tour and that is something every S&W fan should do followed by spending some time at their shooting sports center which is where I do my shooting.

mastrbloata
03-18-2012, 08:24
As far as their products: I have/had 6 Products. I still have 4 of them. The only one I had a real problem with was a 442 :dunno:but they were great about it and I have no complaints on their customer service.

Their politics: Business execs come and go as do elected officials and policies. Spend your dollars and your vote in the right place, at the right time. Meaning, back when they were doing something you didn't like, sure boycott them. Now? Why? To "teach them a lesson"? Nah. Everyone makes mistakes, be more forgiving. I forgive you for not liking Smith and Wesson. :whistling: :tongueout: :supergrin: What was the problem with the 442?

PzGren
03-18-2012, 12:52
Actually, yes!

You own a Glock, Uncle Adolf was Austrian, shame on you!

Rick O'Shay
03-19-2012, 05:06
The M&P line is awesome! Most ergonomic handguns I've ever handled.
I own an M&P Sporter (M-4), and it's all I want in an AR platform. I'm not tactically inclined, but love reliable, accurate shooting.

gatorboy
03-19-2012, 09:00
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/detail_md/162411_01_md.jpg

I like S&W. I like their guns and despite a short period of time, they've been a good American firearm manufacturer. They are an American company again, are'nt they? I've got a few rare PC Smiths: two pre-lock wheelguns and a 3rd gen auto. I really like my M&P 45's. If it was'nt for my M&P's I would not have all the 45's I do now. Though I have Glock 45's now, I was 10mm and 40 only before my M&P's.

As for that abomination in the picture above - BARF! (smilies don't work for me).

HKLovingIT
03-19-2012, 09:09
What was the problem with the 442?


Crack developed under barrel.
Cylinder was kind of hincky and wobbled on the crane too much for my liking.
Sticky chambers in the cylinder.

The above developed after a couple hundred rounds of .38 Special and about 50 rounds of +P the first day I got it. The sticky chambers I didn't know about until I was able to go shoot it. The other items did not appear at the shop and it looked okay. No, I was not doing what they do in the movies and snapping the cylinder shut with a flick of the wrist. Guess I got a Monday morning or Friday afternoon production run.

Sent back to Smith. They replaced the barrel and cylinder, etc. Came back and has been perfect ever since. Maybe I should just send any revolver I buy straight back them. :rofl: I don't have very good luck.

Me at local gun shop...

Clerk: "Okay HK, you're all set. Here is your receipt for that."

Me: "Cool, box it up and send it back to Smith."

Clerk: "Whut?"...:rofl:

ETA: Never had a problem with an M&P or a rifle. They have all been aces out of the box.

Dave.1
03-19-2012, 10:04
I had a similar experience, HK, only this was actually my fault. I '09 when ammo was scarce I foolishly shot someone's .38 Special reloads in my 60-14 and was rewarded with a warped cylinder.

Got a return label from S&W and waited for an email or call telling me what it would cost. A week later my 60-14 was delivered with a new cylinder and no charge.

You can't beat that for building customer loyalty.

Dave

Brucev
03-19-2012, 10:20
I positively adore S&W.

LawScholar
03-19-2012, 12:42
I had a similar experience, HK, only this was actually my fault. I '09 when ammo was scarce I foolishly shot someone's .38 Special reloads in my 60-14 and was rewarded with a warped cylinder.

Got a return label from S&W and waited for an email or call telling me what it would cost. A week later my 60-14 was delivered with a new cylinder and no charge.

You can't beat that for building customer loyalty.

Dave

That's pretty awesome

BFN
03-19-2012, 14:13
I don't like the locks, they need to get rid of them. Have only owned S&W revolvers, the older ones are nice and well made.

The revolver market could use a high end maker for DA wheel guns, like the semi-custom 1911 makers. Ruger and S&W are the only decent choices, both are good but I would be willing to pay more for quality and no lock (and not 6K for a Korth). I wish Colt would return to the DA market. Dan Wesson is supposedly making 500 M715's this year, they are underrated for revolvers, hope they make a comeback.

SC Tiger
03-19-2012, 14:32
I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how this could be possible. I have some experience in manufacturing, and it seems to me that it would have had to have been 'Bring your blind, autistic children to do your job' day for that to have happened.

I've work in Manufacturing and Industrial Engineering for years and I can see how this happened. If they run their barrels in batches probably a basket got taken to the rifling station, set in the wrong place, and then sent on to the next process. That or the worker checked off he did the work before he actually did it. This is something that is very possible in "old style" manufacturing processes (no poke yoke).

I would be very concerned, however, if the serial numbers were sequential and that many got through without it being caught.

LawScholar
03-19-2012, 15:47
I don't like the locks, they need to get rid of them. Have only owned S&W revolvers, the older ones are nice and well made.

The revolver market could use a high end maker for DA wheel guns, like the semi-custom 1911 makers. Ruger and S&W are the only decent choices, both are good but I would be willing to pay more for quality and no lock (and not 6K for a Korth). I wish Colt would return to the DA market. Dan Wesson is supposedly making 500 M715's this year, they are underrated for revolvers, hope they make a comeback.

I agree completely. I love Ruger's revolvers, but a 1,500 to 2,000-ish revolver maker producing incredibly strong actions and exceptional triggers would sell well with enthusiasts, I think.

gunsmoke92
03-19-2012, 19:06
Do yourself a favor and check out the S&W forums here and around the net, then get back to me. While those folks are talking about sweet triggers, awesome grips, tight shot groups, unbelievable customer service, and great finishes, folks here are beating each other up over brass to the face, "stock is best", and whether stippling is cool or crap.

Aside from that, here are my reasons: Yes, I like them.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/009-3.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/075.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/020.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/P1280002-1.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/SWModel27-2001.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/Model19-3003.jpg

What's not to like? I won't comment on the polymer guns, as I don't have any, but my friends who do, love them.

Edmo01
03-19-2012, 19:36
Their customer service quickly gets the gun back to you... It may not be fixed, but they are quick about not fixing it!

I returned a new Bodyguard BG38 snubbie to S&W because the action locked up. They "fixed" it and the first range session out the gun was misfiring and experincing light primer strikes. Back to S&W the second time and I get a call from their customer service saying the gun was unrepairable. This gun was two months old! This doesn't exactly give me confidence in their product, especially this new version of the snubbie.

They offered to send me another one, but I instead told them to send me a standard "airweight" J-frame model 642CT with the laser grips. It should be here this week and I hope it works better than the newfangled mess they call the Bodyguard.

More to come.

On edit, I'm still carrying one of my Glocks which has never failed to function shot after shot since I bought my first one in 1995... It's Perfection!

Edmo

HKLovingIT
03-19-2012, 20:01
Their customer service quickly gets the gun back to you... It may not be fixed, but they are quick about not fixing it!

I returned a new Bodyguard BG38 snubbie to S&W because the action locked up. They "fixed" it and the first range session out the gun was misfiring and experincing light primer strikes. Back to S&W the second time and I get a call from their customer service saying the gun was unrepairable. This gun was two months old! This doesn't exactly give me confidence in their product, especially this new version of the snubbie.

They offered to send me another one, but I instead told them to send me a standard "airweight" J-frame model 642CT with the laser grips. It should be here this week and I hope it works better than the newfangled mess they call the Bodyguard.

More to come.

On edit, I'm still carrying one of my Glocks which has never failed to function shot after shot since I bought my first one in 1995... It's Perfection!

Edmo


Ok, that is bust out loud laughing right there. :rofl:

bac1023
03-19-2012, 20:09
http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/009-3.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/075.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/020.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/P1280002-1.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/SWModel27-2001.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g125/gunsmoke92/guns/Model19-3003.jpg


Very nice

bsg1
03-19-2012, 20:46
i am a fan of the pre lock S&W revolver; personal preference.