Looking for my first AR Rifle [Archive] - Glock Talk

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mayhem23
03-17-2012, 21:10
I am one to own a few guns and like to add something new every once in awhile. However I have little to no knowledge about black guns. My interest is for shooting targets and deer hunting with one.

I am not asking which one to buy but what should I look for. Chrome lined barrel or receiver? Mil spec barrel? Flat top or iron sites?

I may add a light or forward handle. Hell I might paint it haze grey like a Navy ship.

Once I know what I am looking for then I can start looking into a brand to buy. Any helpful advice is welcome.

WoodenPlank
03-17-2012, 21:16
First thing to keep in mind: Using 5.56/.223 for deer in many parts of the US is unethical and illegal. Plenty of states have a minimum caliber requirements that are above .223. Even in states where it is legal, .223 will not (edit) always provide a clean, fast kill without extremely precise shot placement.

What kind of a price range are you looking for? This is a major consideration, too.

If you will be hunting at fairly close range, you might want to consider an AR in .300 AAC Blackout. 7.62x39 type ballistics in an AR package, without the reliability issues, special magazines, or special bolt needed for an actual x39 AR. The only thing different in a .300 AR is the barrel itself. Ammo choice is getting better, too, but still more expensive than 5.56.

A lot of things will depend on how much you have to spend, though. If you can tell us that, then it'll be easier for people to give you solid suggestions.

Cole125
03-17-2012, 23:35
If you want a AR15 for deer hunting I would suggest one in either 6.8 spc or 300 blackout. As said above, .223 is capable of killing a deer but its not always legal to do so or will get you a clean kill.

All you need is a basic rifle, I would look into the Stag Arms model 5 in 6.8. http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?products_id=210

WoodenPlank
03-17-2012, 23:46
If you want a AR15 for deer hunting I would suggest one in either 6.8 spc or 300 blackout. As said above, .223 is capable of killing a deer but its not always legal to do so or will get you a clean kill.

All you need is a basic rifle, I would look into the Stag Arms model 5 in 6.8. http://www.stagarms.com/product_info.php?products_id=210

For someone unfamiliar with an AR, 6.8 is gonna be an expensive (and harder to find) caliber to acquire for practice and familiarization.

Folsom_Prison
03-17-2012, 23:46
I'm a fan of the stags, like said above 223/5.56 isn't always legal for deer depending on state. Kansas for example has a minimum caliber of 243.

TangoFoxtrot
03-18-2012, 06:53
For deer hunting = 300 AAC
For target shooting= .223/5.56

Damn I wish my state allowed AR rifle hunting!

K. Foster
03-18-2012, 07:25
As said, you should have something bigger than 5.56 for deer. However, if you shoot a lot, a 5.56 upper will pay for itself in ammo savings over the better deer calibers. I say get a 5.56 and then if you really want to deer hunt with it, get a 6.8 or .300aac upper later.


I am not asking which one to buy but what should I look for. Chrome lined barrel or receiver? Mil spec barrel? Flat top or iron sites?


A quality 16' chrome lined barrel, Quality bolt, and flat top upper receiver will get you started.

cyphertext
03-18-2012, 09:18
A quality 16' chrome lined barrel, Quality bolt, and flat top upper receiver will get you started.

Chrome lined barrel is not necessarily the way to go for a target and deer hunting rifle. The unlined stainless barrel should be more accurate, in theory.

K. Foster
03-18-2012, 11:42
Chrome lined barrel is not necessarily the way to go for a target and deer hunting rifle. The unlined stainless barrel should be more accurate, in theory.

I recommend chrome lining as a default. Theyíre accurate enough for most uses but yes, a good stainless will be more accurate.

CDW4ME
03-18-2012, 12:03
Consider a quad rail (like on Stag 2T) if you want to attach accessories like a light and or laser.

If you get a fixed front sight, and intend to use a red dot (or other optic) you may see the sight in the optic; a rifle like the Windham SRC flat top that doesn't have a fixed front sight solves that issue. I mounted Magpul fold down front & rear back up sights and really like option of having the dot clear.

I have not killed any deer with a .233, yet; however, I have killed a couple dozen (no kidding) with a bow.

I do not believe that a Barnes Vi-Tor TRX or Federal Fusion (both bullets marketed specifically for deer) won't be sufficient for a broadside standing still deer inside 40 yards.

I think (know) some people are not inclined to limit themself to close range shots on broadside standing still deer; they want to be able to take hard quartering shots, shots straight on (or straight away), or shots at extended range. I wouldn't take those kinds of shots.

I believe that if you use the .223 at close range and take the kinds of shots a bowhunter would take it is sufficient. I plan on finding out, because my boys are interested in hunting this fall. They have already busted gallon jugs of water at 30 yards (initial shooting session) using a red dot sight. They will be limited to the conditions I've described and the set-up will be just like when I bowhunt.
The AR .223 is perfect for a beginning small stature shooter (ages 7 & 8 in this case).

I consistently see Colt recommended and they are the "standard" but I will not buy a Colt after a bad customer service experience with a Defender pistol.

I like the Stag 2T just fine.
I also bought a Daniel Defense M4 V2.
Both of those ^ rifles have a free float quad rail and are the rifles I intend for my boys to use hunting this fall.

I ended up getting a Windham SRC (mentioned at the beginning of this lengthy post) for myself; I figure at some point in the future those first two rifles would be gifted to my boys. Ol Dad needed something for himself and I don't forsee these being any cheaper in the future.

The Windham SRC has the best trigger of the three. I will replace the standard fore-end with an inexpensive quad rail sometime soon.

I know the consensus among AR enthuasist is that the Daniel is the best of those three (and it may be) but I paid a premium for it. For my intended use, which includes limited recreational shooting, hunting and HD any of these three is more than sufficient. I'm not sure that I need a premium rifle for 200-300 rounds a year of shooting, especially when the rifle won't see 100 rounds before cleaning.

Cole125
03-18-2012, 12:43
For someone unfamiliar with an AR, 6.8 is gonna be an expensive (and harder to find) caliber to acquire for practice and familiarization.

I know, but if he wants to hunt deer with an AR, 6.8 is one of his few options. One thing, IF his state allows it, using a heavy .223 bullet and taking a close shot with correct placement would work.


Your other option is buying two rifles, get a used bolt action in .24 and a decent but inexpensive AR15 in .223. The S&W Sport is a good one.

WoodenPlank
03-18-2012, 14:38
Chrome lined barrel is not necessarily the way to go for a target and deer hunting rifle. The unlined stainless barrel should be more accurate, in theory.

In theory, but a quality chrome lined bore will be accurate enough for most needs, will be more durable, and will be better for resisting rust, corrosion, etc.

Your other option is buying two rifles, get a used bolt action in .24 and a decent but inexpensive AR15 in .223. The S&W Sport is a good one.

This can be a solid way to go, as well.

RyanNREMTP
03-18-2012, 14:41
Why isn't an AR 10 not an option?

cyphertext
03-18-2012, 16:34
In theory, but a quality chrome lined bore will be accurate enough for most needs, will be more durable, and will be better for resisting rust, corrosion, etc.


We will have to agree to disagree here. I have bolt rifles that cost less than any AR, yet they guarantee sub MOA. These barrels are not chrome lined. I think the chrome lining is in the M16 family more for the dissipation of heat than anything else. The anti corrosion is a side affect, but not the intended reason for the military to chose chrome lining.

Honestly, I think the AR is a poor choice for a deer rifle. I like it for hog hunting due to the capacity and that I can get more shots off on a sounder of hogs than I can with my bolt rifle. But for an animal where I am typically only going to take one shot, and I want to insure a clean kill, I'll take a .30 caliber bolt gun.

Javelin
03-18-2012, 16:43
Definitely check out a 300BLK if you want to hunt deer. Rounds are about $11.99 per box of Remington UMC so not too terribly bad.

As for which one. If you could be lucky enough to snag a Daniel Defense V5 300BLK (they are out there) it would be a really nice rifle for a really great value. Else if you have the coin look at Noveske in 300BLK. Just know that with the 300BLK you can shoot with as short as 6" barrel with 8"-9" being standard length so just keep that in mind if your state will let you hunt with an SBR.

:wavey:

cyphertext
03-18-2012, 17:13
Hog hunting with night vision and Javelin's suppressed rifles in 300BLK...now that is a whole different story! Hogs wouldn't know what hit them!

mayhem23
03-18-2012, 17:20
Thanks for the info. As far as a price range, I don't intend to exceed $1400 max. So far I have seen prices from $699 to $1100, but that $1400 will include any accessories. I have been deer hunting with a muzzleloader and a slug gun. The thought of another option is pliable.

Javelin
03-18-2012, 17:22
Hog hunting with night vision and Javelin's suppressed rifles in 300BLK...now that is a whole different story! Hogs wouldn't know what hit them!

Yeah that does sound like fun!

I was looking at a thread someone posted where they were using NVGs and IR illumination to hunt hogs with silenced rifles. It looks like a lot of fun. But man do they have some serious $$$ wrapped up in night vision.

I really need some NVG's. :rofl:

cfec2008
03-18-2012, 18:07
I recommend chrome lining as a default. Theyíre accurate enough for most uses but yes, a good stainless will be more accurate.


yep, GET chrome lined barrel. The accuracy loss is very small. VERY small in MY rifle. There may more or lesser differences in rifles that Ive never shot, but Ive got one ar without chrome. It shoots great tight groups with a scope and bags.

I have two other ars with cold hammer forged steel with chrome lined barrels, and there isnt enought loss to justify not getting the chrome. Not to ME. If your a guy who will only shoot 20 rounds a year through it a year it wont matter anyway.

cfec2008
03-18-2012, 18:17
one more thing, if you want to attatch anything to the handguards I would check out magpul moe. They are wayyy cheaper that quad rails, They are wayyy lighter also. Magpul makes good stuff. Look at their moe grip too. You can store things like extra light battery, firing pin, bolt, cam pin, lube, medicine.

K. Foster
03-18-2012, 21:09
I think the chrome lining is in the M16 family more for the dissipation of heat than anything else. The anti corrosion is a side affect, but not the intended reason for the military to chose chrome lining.

Not trying to pick on you but thatís wrong. The original purpose of chrome lining was to deter corrosion in humid environments. In addition, CL reduces the chance of having extraction problems by creating a smoother chamber and increases barrel life. The one negative is a slight, often imperceptible, loss of accuracy. Assuming quality components, of course. :beer:

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 03:32
Not trying to pick on you but thatís wrong. The original purpose of chrome lining was to deter corrosion in humid environments. In addition, CL reduces the chance of having extraction problems by creating a smoother chamber and increases barrel life. The one negative is a slight, often imperceptible, loss of accuracy. Assuming quality components, of course. :beer:

Exactly.

cyphertext
03-19-2012, 06:14
Not trying to pick on you but thatís wrong. The original purpose of chrome lining was to deter corrosion in humid environments. In addition, CL reduces the chance of having extraction problems by creating a smoother chamber and increases barrel life. The one negative is a slight, often imperceptible, loss of accuracy. Assuming quality components, of course. :beer:

Not trying to argue, but everything I have read about the history of the rifle disagrees with you. The chrome lining was needed due to the added heat created from full auto firing. Without it, under full auto fire, the chamber will be eroded and the barrel shot out in very few rounds. It is there to increase the barrel life. If it were purely for anti corrosion, their are cheaper alternatives to meet that goal.

mayhem23
03-19-2012, 19:31
Thanks for all the info. Now, what would be your top three buys on a budget and including accessories of $1400?

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 19:35
Thanks for all the info. Now, what would be your top three buys on a budget and including accessories of $1400?

It completely depends on your goal.

SD/HD, LEO duty, etc? We talking door-kicking and defending a small, cramped home? Trunk gun?

Punching paper at the range, but use other guns for SD/HD? How far do you want to shoot, and how tight of a group do you want?

Shooting competition? 3-gun, NRA High Power, Bullseye, etc?

It can even be a mix of those three, but different tools for different tasks. Some things will be standard across all three categories - some will not. There are also categories that I didn't include, and some that fit to that individual's specific needs, and no-one else. The more details you give us on what you want to do, and the reasons you want to do it, the more we can help you make an informed decision.

mayhem23
03-23-2012, 21:36
I have found my black gun. Its a custom build by a friend to mil specs. Exceeded my $$$ limit. ***** happens. Chambered in 5.56 with 1-7 twist. Will post pics soon. Changed my mind on the deer hunting, but will be great for feral pigs I think.

mayhem23
03-23-2012, 22:51
Found what I wanted in a black gun. Its a custom build to mil specs. Pics to follow soon. 5.56 with 1-7, quad rail and sling.

mayhem23
03-24-2012, 20:23
Here it is. Its kind of a hybrid of sorts to mil specs chambered in 5.56 with 1:7 twist. Can't wait to shoot it if the weather is good tommorrow. Well I was hoping to add a pic but having problems with it.