Outdoor Range First Time---Kicked Off Range Within 30 Minutes [Archive] - Glock Talk

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dyobvk
03-17-2012, 22:34
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.

WoodenPlank
03-17-2012, 22:51
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.

She was right - your left thumb wrapped over the back of your right hand is a SERIOUS injury waiting to happen. Dislocated or broken thumb, major lacerations, or worse. Continuing to use a grip like that is a trip to the emergency room in the making.

Spend some time working on a thumbs-forward grip at home (after making DAMN sure the gun is completely unloaded, of course) and start getting used to it. Use a fixed point on the wall and practice dry-firing with the proper grip (Again - Make ABSOLUTELY SURE your weapon is empty)to make sure your'e not slapping or jerking the trigger, too, since the adjusted grip could induce that kind of problem.

Folsom_Prison
03-17-2012, 22:55
I don't see how you can shoot like that, thumbs forward is so much more comfortable for me.

T-Rod45
03-17-2012, 23:00
She was right - your left thumb wrapped over the back of your right hand is a SERIOUS injury waiting to happen. Dislocated or broken thumb, major lacerations, or worse. Continuing to use a grip like that is a trip to the emergency room in the making.

Spend some time working on a thumbs-forward grip at home (after making DAMN sure the gun is completely unloaded, of course) and start getting used to it. Use a fixed point on the wall and practice dry-firing with the proper grip (Again - Make ABSOLUTELY SURE your weapon is empty)to make sure your'e not slapping or jerking the trigger, too, since the adjusted grip could induce that kind of problem.

:agree:

Only time I use thumb over thumb is on a J-Frame... Sometimes. Bad idea on an auto...

9jeeps
03-17-2012, 23:01
Well now>>> There you have it. Do it right or go home!

stmcelroy
03-17-2012, 23:03
Seems like somebody let the RSO title go to their head.

WoodenPlank
03-17-2012, 23:04
Seems like somebody let the RSO title go to their head.

Sounds to me that an RO possibly saved the OP from a trip to a hospital. An RO's job is to see and stop any unsafe conditions, gun handling, or accidents. She did exactly that.

HKLovingIT
03-18-2012, 00:03
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.

That range sounds annoying. You should have told her to be quiet as you were doing "man things" and to go make you a sammich. :whistling: :tongueout:

Questions:

Was she hot? If so maybe she could have slid up next to ya and showed you how's it done. Hubba, hubba.

How were her teeth?

Does she own a Bravia?

Take a picture of this grip you were using. Were you holding it like a revolver? Both thumbs on the left side, or were you wrapping your left thumb around the rear of the pistol and over top of the web of your right thumb or something? If so, I agree don't do that with an auto.

We need answers to the above to provide further feedback.

Sorry you had a bad time. Hope you find a nice place to go shooting.

chris in va
03-18-2012, 03:04
I've pointed that out to a few people on the line, but never noticed the RO actually telling someone to go home for doing so.


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WoodenPlank
03-18-2012, 03:15
I've pointed that out to a few people on the line, but never noticed the RO actually telling someone to go home for doing so.


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Given the choice of telling someone to go home, or that someone going back to a dangerous grip after having it pointed out twice, which would YOU do?

Same deal with someone shooting a revolver and their hand next to the cylinder gap.

Ewalk
03-18-2012, 03:28
That range sounds annoying. You should have told her to be quiet as you were doing "man things" and to go make you a sammich. :whistling: :tongueout:

Questions:

Was she hot? If so maybe she could have slid up next to ya and showed you how's it done. Hubba, hubba.

How were her teeth?

Does she own a Bravia?

Take a picture of this grip you were using. Were you holding it like a revolver? Both thumbs on the left side, or were you wrapping your left thumb around the rear of the pistol and over top of the web of your right thumb or something? If so, I agree don't do that with an auto.

We need answers to the above to provide further feedback.

Sorry you had a bad time. Hope you find a nice place to go shooting.
:rofl:
funniest comments I have ever seen here! Literally LoL'd! (scared my dog)

Smooth_squeeze
03-18-2012, 05:29
That range sounds annoying. You should have told her to be quiet as you were doing "man things" and to go make you a sammich. :whistling: :tongueout:


That's a great line...!! I can just see it: "Schweetie, jest hush yo' mouf. I's doin' maan things right now. Can you go make me a sammich, wit' ham'n'cheese on rye?"

And then wait for something to happen, probably not very nice. :rofl:

ChuteTheMall
03-18-2012, 05:50
She was right.
Maybe unskilled & tactless, but still right.

I don't want some newb next to me ripping open his flesh with a loaded pistol in his hand, dancing around screaming in pain, spraying bullets everywhere.

Before your bad habits become totally ingrained, learn proper techniques. There are many excellent books, dvds, and classes available. Here's one example of a proper grip:



http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5339/shootingthstraight.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/37/shootingthstraight.jpg/)

bac1023
03-18-2012, 05:59
I don't see how you can shoot like that, thumbs forward is so much more comfortable for me.

:agree:

H&K 4 LIFE
03-18-2012, 06:10
Required viewing...

Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting. - YouTube

Green Dragoon
03-18-2012, 07:29
I side with the RSO. I would wonder what other safety principals the shooter wasn't initiated on too.

Chesafreak
03-18-2012, 08:05
Seems like somebody let the RSO title go to their head.

The range is a business that has injuries and insurance to consider and prevent. IMO, I think the RO did the right thing to prevent an injury on the range. His grip is an injury waiting to happen. Just because he has gotten comfortable with that grip doesn't make it right. Eventually its going to bite him.

PlasticGuy
03-18-2012, 08:15
I wasn't there, so I can't comment on whether she handled it in a professional manner. She was right though. I have seen shooters loose skin and blood shooting with the hold you describe. My dad made exactly the same statement you did. After the second time we had to address blood loss from his left thumb knuckle at the range, he started holding the handgun properly. I've also seen it a couple other times in classes. Pain is an excellent teacher, but it's easer to just do it correctly before you get that kind of education.

hogship
03-18-2012, 08:35
Looks like the OP hasn't been back after the initial post.......he's probably letting the input take it's course, and contemplating. This is good. There has been a lot of good reasoned commentary here. Anyone who puts their left thumb around the back side of an automatic, is going to get bit sooner or later.

I've seen that Todd Jarret video before.....it's good. OP, you should check that out.

ooc

Bruce M
03-18-2012, 08:45
Damned opposable thumbs...

Fred Hansen
03-18-2012, 09:32
As a volunteer RSO with hundreds of hours of time served, I never had anyone insist on using a wrong/dangerous technique once they were instructed otherwise. You weren't kicked off, you chose to leave.

:dunno:

gasboffer
03-18-2012, 10:54
You fired 50 rounds of 12 ga. shotgun slugs in one sitting? No wonder you were kicked off the range. You were probably .............never mind!

Jake Starr
03-18-2012, 10:54
She was right - your left thumb wrapped over the back of your right hand is a SERIOUS injury waiting to happen. Dislocated or broken thumb, major lacerations, or worse. Continuing to use a grip like that is a trip to the emergency room in the making.



Perhpas she was right by technique but not with dealing with people. It boils down to customer service, even if it is a volunteer position. Tell a person once, what you think is a better way. What may be better or correct may not be so for every shooter. I would have just offered some free advice. If you choose to do it your own way and it works for you, so be it. I should then kiss off and say "good bye." If you were to get injured after proper instruction, well then, there is no cure for stupid. Then it is on you.

Ruble Noon
03-18-2012, 11:12
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.

If you value your thumbs you will head the RO's advice.

The_Gun_Guru
03-18-2012, 13:18
Is it state-run?

We have a state-run outdoor range here in S. FL that I avoid like the pleague! I hate "range Nazis" and I am surprised that you don't hear about them being shot by disgruntled shooters.

I refuse to go to a range that makes me take the bayonets off my AKs and SKS'!:steamed:


Don't go back and tell everyone you know NOT to use that range.

TGG

BTW....I find it odd that they require you to use slugs in your SG. The ranges here require you to shoot lead 00 buckshot:dunno:

T-Rod45
03-18-2012, 13:34
BTW....I find it odd that they require you to use slugs in your SG. The ranges here require you to shoot lead 00 buckshot:dunno:

An outdoor range here does the same thing. I believe it's because they value their target stands...

Bill Lumberg
03-18-2012, 15:09
This. She was right - your left thumb wrapped over the back of your right hand is a SERIOUS injury waiting to happen. Dislocated or broken thumb, major lacerations, or worse. Continuing to use a grip like that is a trip to the emergency room in the making.

Spend some time working on a thumbs-forward grip at home (after making DAMN sure the gun is completely unloaded, of course) and start getting used to it. Use a fixed point on the wall and practice dry-firing with the proper grip (Again - Make ABSOLUTELY SURE your weapon is empty)to make sure your'e not slapping or jerking the trigger, too, since the adjusted grip could induce that kind of problem.

oldnoob
03-18-2012, 19:33
While I like my left thumb on left side. I wouldn't go around and call it "the RIGHT way to shoot". If you shoot better that way and the slide haven't bit your thumb, who care where your left thumb is? What the hell is "the RIGHT way" in shooting anyway?

I could imaging back in the day there would be at least one knucklehead tab on Jack Weaver's shoulder and told him he was shooting wrong.

Fragman
03-18-2012, 19:41
I guess my question is why did the OP feel the need to identify the RO as female? Not just by the use if 'she', but specifically saying 'the female RO'.

Why? Is it a subconscious thing that a female can't tell them how to shoot? Especially as they are using a dangerous grip?




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ChuteTheMall
03-18-2012, 19:42
Looks like the OP hasn't been back after the initial post.......

He's been back, but he can't type with all those bandages on his hands.

:badpc:

The_Gun_Guru
03-18-2012, 20:09
I guess my question is why did the OP feel the need to identify the RO as female? Not just by the use if 'she', but specifically saying 'the female RO'.

Why? Is it a subconscious thing that a female can't tell them how to shoot? Especially as they are using a dangerous grip?


OMG!!!!:upeyes:


I guess we knew there would be at least one:rofl:


Let's all hold hands and join the OP in asking the gals that they forgive him for pointing out that it was a female RO....:upeyes:


Too funny!:rofl:

TGG

Brucev
03-18-2012, 21:05
That ro needs to mind her own business. If the op wants to shoot with a non-standard grip, let him. Experience will teach him. Bandaids are cheap. The idea that it would be a "serious" injury is a figment of her overactive imagination.

stmcelroy
03-18-2012, 21:12
That ro needs to mind her own business. If the op wants to shoot with a non-standard grip, let him. Experience will teach him. Bandaids are cheap. The idea that it would be a "serious" injury is a figment of her overactive imagination.

Yep.:whistling:

m2hmghb
03-18-2012, 21:21
I've seen people cut to the bone from doing the X over grip with a semi auto. A lot of damage can happen from shooting like that, it's fine for revolvers but with autos you get slide bite or worse. The RO was saving the range from a possible litigation, IE you were injured on their property you sue them, or from having to report an injury on their property. The RO probably figured that if she left you would go back to the X over grip and that it was a risk she wasn't willing to take and nipped it in the bud by asking you to leave. In addition to this because the RO is working with you she can't watch the line, her job is not to be a shooting instructor but to keep the shooters safe and to protect the company.

Jade Falcon
03-18-2012, 21:31
The RO was right. If I understand correctly, the only time you can ever use the grip position you applied, is if you are shooting a high-powered revolver. But I'm open to corrections on this.

Novocaine
03-18-2012, 22:50
That ro needs to mind her own business.

It's RO's business not to mind her own business.

If injury waiting to happen was not enough reason for RO to intervene what was she there for?

For the record I hold revolvers this way. But this technique is simply dangerous when applied autos. Iíve been hit by the slide of a puny .22 once. No fun.

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 04:03
While I like my left thumb on left side. I wouldn't go around and call it "the RIGHT way to shoot". If you shoot better that way and the slide haven't bit your thumb, who care where your left thumb is? What the hell is "the RIGHT way" in shooting anyway?

I could imaging back in the day there would be at least one knucklehead tab on Jack Weaver's shoulder and told him he was shooting wrong.

That ro needs to mind her own business. If the op wants to shoot with a non-standard grip, let him. Experience will teach him. Bandaids are cheap. The idea that it would be a "serious" injury is a figment of her overactive imagination.

For both oldnoob and Bruce, there is one severe problem with your train of thought...

I've seen people cut to the bone from doing the X over grip with a semi auto. A lot of damage can happen from shooting like that, it's fine for revolvers but with autos you get slide bite or worse. The RO was saving the range from a possible litigation, IE you were injured on their property you sue them, or from having to report an injury on their property. The RO probably figured that if she left you would go back to the X over grip and that it was a risk she wasn't willing to take and nipped it in the bud by asking you to leave. In addition to this because the RO is working with you she can't watch the line, her job is not to be a shooting instructor but to keep the shooters safe and to protect the company.

This isn't just a "band-aid" kinda injury we're talking about, like hand riding too high on the back of a Glock and getting some minor cuts. This is a deep cut (requiring stitches), dislocated thumb, broken thumb, or potentially severed/mangled thumb that can result from your thumb being behind the slide on a semi-auto. Any one of those is going to result in a trip to the emergency room, or possibly an ambulance called.

auto-5
03-19-2012, 05:12
It's there range so it is there rules. You hold auto's different than you hold revolvers for a reason.

Brucev
03-19-2012, 07:21
It's RO's business not to mind her own business. Maybe take care of new shooters, tend to significant safety issues. But not doing Barney Fife 2.0.

If injury waiting to happen was not enough reason for RO to intervene what was she there for? Smile. Bring coffee, etc.

For the record I hold revolvers this way. But this technique is simply dangerous when applied autos. Iíve been hit by the slide of a puny .22 once. No fun. Experience can bite. Usually leads to well learned lessons. If his grip is for the OP problematic, he'll learn. Otherwise... forgetaboutit.

MNBud
03-19-2012, 08:11
I'm on the side of the range officer, do it right or do it some place else. She was doing her job when she corrected him once and he wasn't bright enough to pick it up. Male or female---- doesn't matter.

ChuteTheMall
03-19-2012, 08:20
I don't want some unteachable n00b shooting next to me getting hurt in his gun hand, or having a nervous breakdown, or freaking out when a female range officer challenges his masculinity. Unsafe practices are banned.

Rumbler_G20
03-19-2012, 08:27
Sounds to me that an RO possibly saved the OP from a trip to a hospital. An RO's job is to see and stop any unsafe conditions, gun handling, or accidents. She did exactly that.

Agreed. 100% - I'd have done the same.


I mean no personal offense to you OP, but lowering safety standards to accommodate a shooter that doesn't know how is just not a sound approach. :dunno:

Brucev
03-19-2012, 10:19
I don't want some unteachable n00b shooting next to me getting hurt in his gun hand, or having a nervous breakdown, or freaking out when a female range officer challenges his masculinity. Unsafe practices are banned.

She needs to stick to coffee and doughnuts, etc. and leave off playing mama and watching out for everyone who might get a boo boo shooting their handgun.

AA#5
03-19-2012, 10:31
Well, I naturally keep both thumbs on the left side, but I've seen many shooters grip as you do & I've never seen anyone get hurt. I'm not saying it can't happen.

I've never seen a range employee say anything to anyone about their grip, let alone ask someone to leave because of it. Sounds like this one craves authority.

sns3guppy
03-19-2012, 11:21
Safety counsel was given. The original poster doesn't take safety counsel well (and apparently doesn't know how to hold a handgun). Original poster was invited to leave.

Seems very straightforward, doesn't it?

T-Rod45
03-19-2012, 11:45
http://thecampofthesaints.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/r-lee-ermey-point-371.jpg

Maybe if this guy had been the RO, then the OP may have taken the instruction more seriously and lost his mamby-pamby grip in favor of the proper way to hold the weapon... :dunno:

Rustin
03-19-2012, 11:50
Can someone here post a picture of how NOT to hold a semi automatic pistol? I would but I've got no camera. Sounds like a revolver grip.

Fred Hansen
03-19-2012, 11:54
Looks like whenever dyobvk gets an answer he doesn't like, he leaves. :crying: :wavey:

m2hmghb
03-19-2012, 12:06
http://www.christiangunowner.com/correct_handgun_grip.html

High Altitude
03-19-2012, 12:20
If the guy is shooting round after round for who knows how many years holding a pistol like this with no issues what so ever, who is to say what he should or shouldn't be doing.


Just another typical range nazi.

scccdoc
03-19-2012, 12:22
Obey the authority of the range,it can be a dangerous place..... DOC

Bren
03-19-2012, 12:33
EDIT: I may have taken that wrong - I thought you were talking about a "thumbs up" grip with your thumb touching the side of the slide.If you were talking about a thumb over your strong hand and behind the slide - there is no good version of that. It is one of those plain old, not doubt about it, WRONG grips. It will hurt you bad. I agree with throwing you off the range - lack of shooting knowledge and potential injury is just too much for most ranges to put up with..

T-Rod45
03-19-2012, 13:09
I honestly think that the OP really should be able to shoot how he feels most comfortable, being that he is only risking injury to himself and not others... However the RO was doing her job by preventing this...

Boats
03-19-2012, 13:11
I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on.

Perhaps you should check into buying more comfortable handguns.

concretefuzzynuts
03-19-2012, 17:04
:wavey:Thumbs forward... keep repeating -thumbs forward.:honkie:

faawrenchbndr
03-19-2012, 17:17
Sounds to me that an RO possibly saved the OP from a trip to a hospital. An RO's job is to see and stop any unsafe conditions, gun handling, or accidents. She did exactly that.


This............most RO's are not as dumb as most poeple think.

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 17:26
EDIT: I may have taken that wrong - I thought you were talking about a "thumbs up" grip with your thumb touching the side of the slide.If you were talking about a thumb over your strong hand and behind the slide - there is no good version of that. It is one of those plain old, not doubt about it, WRONG grips. It will hurt you bad. I agree with throwing you off the range - lack of shooting knowledge and potential injury is just too much for most ranges to put up with..

This is exactly what it sounds like the OP is doing.

I find it disheartening the number of people that think the RO was in the wrong. It's a liability issue for the range if the OP causes himself a serious injury, and the range staff saw it and did nothing to stop it.

Fragman
03-19-2012, 17:57
.......being that he is only risking injury to himself and not others...

Well, that's not entirely accurate. If the shooter is inexperienced enough to not know the standard grip,and their thumb is dinged, but not hard enough to cause the slide to not fully cycle, then what happens? They yell, jerk their hand back, perhaps muzzle someone? Finger still on the trigger?

Maybe a few ifs, but not implausible. Better to correct the behaviour or ask them to shoot somewhere else. If I was the guy next to him, I for one would prefer he shot somewhere else.




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WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 18:11
Well, that's not entirely accurate. If the shooter is inexperienced enough to not know the standard grip,and their thumb is dinged, but not hard enough to cause the slide to not fully cycle, then what happens? They yell, jerk their hand back, perhaps muzzle someone? Finger still on the trigger?

Maybe a few ifs, but not implausible. Better to correct the behaviour or ask them to shoot somewhere else. If I was the guy next to him, I for one would prefer he shot somewhere else.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or drop the weapon and risk a possible discharge when it hits the ground. Get dinged in the left thumb, freak out at the sight of blood, and jerk the trigger a second time unintentionally - possibly putting a round into a bystander.

Reb 56
03-19-2012, 18:56
First time I fired a Glock I held it as the OP did and got a nice cut on my left thumb,last time I used the thumb over grip.

Berto
03-19-2012, 19:12
She was right. Sometimes you have to drop the machismo and open your mind to learning better techniques. A revolver grip or thumbs crossed like that will jam pistols.
It's happened with LE in gunfights when transitioning from revolvers to autos.

12131
03-19-2012, 19:12
While I like my left thumb on left side. I wouldn't go around and call it "the RIGHT way to shoot". If you shoot better that way and the slide haven't bit your thumb, who care where your left thumb is? What the hell is "the RIGHT way" in shooting anyway?

I could imaging back in the day there would be at least one knucklehead tab on Jack Weaver's shoulder and told him he was shooting wrong.
I was looking for this post. Thank you. Amazing how folks go around forcing their way on others. As long as the person shoots best with his way, and he has not ed anyone, leave him the hell alone!

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 19:31
I was looking for this post. Thank you. Amazing how folks go around forcing their way on others. As long as the person shoots best with his way, and he has not ed anyone, leave him the hell alone!

So, you should just stand there and watch while someone continues to use a dangerous grip on a handgun, and start a pool on how long before they go to the hospital?

Would you stop someone that had their support hand under and next to the cylinder gap on a high power revolver, and just wait to see the carnage when they start losing large chunks of their hand and thumb?

Sorry, but if I see someone doing something that's gonna get them (or anyone else) hurt, I'm speaking up and correcting them. I was always taught (and had it enforced in many places) that EVERYONE on the range is responsible for safety, and you call cease fire when there's an unsafe condition.

12131
03-19-2012, 20:06
So, you should just stand there and watch while someone continues to use a dangerous grip on a handgun, and start a pool on how long before they go to the hospital?

Would you stop someone that had their support hand under and next to the cylinder gap on a high power revolver, and just wait to see the carnage when they start losing large chunks of their hand and thumb?

Sorry, but if I see someone doing something that's gonna get them (or anyone else) hurt, I'm speaking up and correcting them. I was always taught (and had it enforced in many places) that EVERYONE on the range is responsible for safety, and you call cease fire when there's an unsafe condition.
All I'm saying is this. If there's certain way someone has been shooting best, and that has not resulted in any mishap, who are you to tell him to do otherwise. You think your way is best and safest? Can you predict with 100% certainty that you will never, ever, have any mishap? If you say yes, then, you have no right to tell another person that his way is unsafe, because he will tell you, "My way in 100% safe. I've been doing it all my life".
If you still disagree, then let's just leave it at that. No further discussion necessary.

HKLovingIT
03-19-2012, 20:07
I would like OP to post a picture of his grip if he cares to.

If he has been shooting like that all along and has not ever cut himself or gotten bit, maybe he is not doing what we think he is doing, even though it sounds like he's doing what we think he's doing. :whistling::dunno::supergrin:

Plus he never answered the essential facts:

1. Was she hot?
2. How were her teeth?
3. Does she own a Sony Bravia?

GTFord1
03-19-2012, 20:27
Regardless of whether the OP is right or wrong, I still hate public ranges, and I no longer will go to them. I hate the people the go to them, I hate the people who run them, and I refuse to be around them.

vkscott
03-19-2012, 21:42
Required viewing...

Todd Jarrett on pistol shooting. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48)

Amazing. But I have a question. I hold my pistol exactly the way he teaches with one exception. I cover the front of the trigger guard with the index finger on my support hand. It just seems more comfortable. Does anyone else do this or should I learn the other way?

FunGun
03-20-2012, 00:29
Amazing. But I have a question. I hold my pistol exactly the way he teaches with one exception. I cover the front of the trigger guard with the index finger on my support hand. It just seems more comfortable. Does anyone else do this or should I learn the other way?

I'm sure other people do that, there is usually a grip where your index would rest on. I know on my 19 there is.

Javelin
03-20-2012, 00:36
That range sounds annoying. You should have told her to be quiet as you were doing "man things" and to go make you a sammich. :whistling: :tongueout:

Questions:

Was she hot? If so maybe she could have slid up next to ya and showed you how's it done. Hubba, hubba.

How were her teeth?

Does she own a Bravia?

Take a picture of this grip you were using. Were you holding it like a revolver? Both thumbs on the left side, or were you wrapping your left thumb around the rear of the pistol and over top of the web of your right thumb or something? If so, I agree don't do that with an auto.

We need answers to the above to provide further feedback.

Sorry you had a bad time. Hope you find a nice place to go shooting.

:rofl::rofl:

Javelin
03-20-2012, 00:40
She could have just let you continue... had a guy choke up too damn close on his scope. I told him 2x that he needed to give her some eye relief. Gives the old "I've been shooting for blah blah blah years" I know what I'm doing.

Well... 3x bang he needed to excuse himself from the outdoor line to go stop the bleeding above his right eye. Ooopsies. Amazingly he left that afternoon immediately without having to be asked.

idiot.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 00:46
She could have just let you continue... had a guy choke up too damn close on his scope. I told him 2x that he needed to give her some eye relief. Gives the old "I've been shooting for blah blah blah years" I know what I'm doing.

Well... 3x bang he needed to excuse himself from the outdoor line to go stop the bleeding above his right eye. Ooopsies. Amazingly he left that afternoon immediately without having to be asked.

idiot.

Yep. Lots of people out there doing things unsafely, even though they swear they've been doing it for years and won't get hurt. For them, it's just a matter of time until Murphy bites them in the butt.

copaup
03-20-2012, 00:46
Pretty standard stuff. RO's have to monitor unsafe activity on the range. A grip that has a high probability of resulting in injury is unsafe activity on the range. To allow such activity to continue opens the range up to liability to significant civil lawsuits which could well result in shutting down the range and making it impossible for anybody to shoot there. Firing ranges are insanely expensive to insure as is. If it was my range and you insisted on doing something I'd already told you was a no go, you'd be gone. Nothing personal, it's business.

All that is aside from I'd be kind of a ****** to stand there and let you hurt yourself and maybe have an ND from the suprise or trying to catch the dropped weapon and hurting someone else.

Feel free to shoot however you want, just don't endanger other peoples safety or lively hood while doing so.

samurairabbi
03-20-2012, 01:18
Amazing. But I have a question. I hold my pistol exactly the way he teaches with one exception. I cover the front of the trigger guard with the index finger on my support hand. It just seems more comfortable. Does anyone else do this or should I learn the other way?

This is an interesting "mirror image" condition to the OP habit with his wrap-around support hand thumb.

His wraparound offhand thumb is an acceptable safety setup with a revolver, but NOT with an autoloader handgun.

Having a finger in front of the trigger guard is an acceptable safety setup with an AUTOLOADER, but not with a REVOLVER. Having a finger aligned with the cylinder gap is asking for fragment/powder-blast injury. Shooters at a range where I used to be an RO had to learn which technique to use on which firearm.

High Altitude
03-20-2012, 01:43
Amazing. But I have a question. I hold my pistol exactly the way he teaches with one exception. I cover the front of the trigger guard with the index finger on my support hand. It just seems more comfortable. Does anyone else do this or should I learn the other way?

There are a few top competition shooters who do shoot like that, but not many at all.

Shoot for 6 months with out your finger on the front of the trigger guard and see how it goes. Definitely give it some time and then decide.

I know guys that shoot with absolutely the worst grips, they try to shoot thumbs forward for all of one or two mags and declare it doesn't work for them etc...

Also, don't judge how well you shoot with a different grip based soley on accuracy. Accuracy has more to do with sight alignment, sight picture and trigger control. Grip has more to do with recoil control and efficient follow up shots.

In the end though, do what you prefer. We are here to have fun.

ChuteTheMall
03-20-2012, 04:24
All I'm saying is this. If there's certain way someone has been shooting best, and that has not resulted in any mishap, who are you to tell him to do otherwise. You think your way is best and safest? Can you predict with 100% certainty that you will never, ever, have any mishap? If you say yes, then, you have no right to tell another person that his way is unsafe, because he will tell you, "My way in 100% safe. I've been doing it all my life".

If you still disagree, then let's just leave it at that. No further discussion necessary.

I still disagree, I'm not leaving it at that, and I'm going to continue to discuss this even if I have to virtually beat you over the head with this.:uglylol:

I will not permit you to stand next to me and shoot in this manner which has proven to be dangerous because it has a very high probability of causing sudden injury to a shooting hand. I won't trust anyone like that to handle a bloody accident safely with a loaded pistol in his obviously unskilled hands.

Rather than just virtually shoot you to the ground in pre-emptive self defense, I'll be nice and give you the opportunity to either begin shooting safely, or leaving.

No third option. My way or the highway. Put your gun down, right now. Buy your own range somewhere else. Git.
:wavey:

If you own this range, I'll just leave if you'd rather not learn about safety.

Fred Hansen
03-20-2012, 05:05
Moved to page 4

4 pages, and the OP fled the moment he didn't get the answer he was looking for.

:uglylol: Indeed. :rofl:

vkscott
03-20-2012, 06:10
This is an interesting "mirror image" condition to the OP habit with his wrap-around support hand thumb.

His wraparound offhand thumb is an acceptable safety setup with a revolver, but NOT with an autoloader handgun.

Having a finger in front of the trigger guard is an acceptable safety setup with an AUTOLOADER, but not with a REVOLVER. Having a finger aligned with the cylinder gap is asking for fragment/powder-blast injury. Shooters at a range where I used to be an RO had to learn which technique to use on which firearm.

I don't shoot a revolver that much but when I do, I tuck my finger under the trigger guard. I have to admit its not comfortable and I have to "remind" myself.

vafish
03-20-2012, 06:14
I agree with the ro.

You were being unsafe and then argued with her about it.

Fastest way to get kicked off our club range.

Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine

ChuteTheMall
03-20-2012, 06:19
4 pages, and the OP fled the moment he didn't get the answer he was looking for.

:uglylol: Indeed. :rofl:

He's been back, but he can't type with all those bandages on his hands.

:badpc:

His thumb is still swollen.
:thumbsup:

Fred Hansen
03-20-2012, 06:28
His thumb is still swollen.
:thumbsup::supergrin:

rvrctyrngr
03-20-2012, 06:48
Amazing. But I have a question. I hold my pistol exactly the way he teaches with one exception. I cover the front of the trigger guard with the index finger on my support hand. It just seems more comfortable. Does anyone else do this or should I learn the other way?

Nothing wrong or unsafe about that, at all. It used to be a VERY popular grip style. Where do you think all the squared/hooked trigger guards came from?

Not as popular as it once was, but still nothing wrong with it.

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 06:53
That range sounds annoying. You should have told her to be quiet as you were doing "man things" and to go make you a sammich. :whistling: :tongueout:

Questions:

Was she hot? If so maybe she could have slid up next to ya and showed you how's it done. Hubba, hubba.

How were her teeth?

Does she own a Bravia?

Take a picture of this grip you were using. Were you holding it like a revolver? Both thumbs on the left side, or were you wrapping your left thumb around the rear of the pistol and over top of the web of your right thumb or something? If so, I agree don't do that with an auto.

We need answers to the above to provide further feedback.

Sorry you had a bad time. Hope you find a nice place to go shooting.

She was at least 60. But you know some people who tan alot look older that they are. She was not an ass about the situation.

I held the Glock again the way I do it and my left thumb is resting on top of my wrist and there is a 3/4 inch of clearance between my left thumb and the area where the slide kicks back. Like I mention before I have big hands. I wear XX and sometimes XXX gloves.

scccdoc
03-20-2012, 06:56
I was looking for this post. Thank you. Amazing how folks go around forcing their way on others. As long as the person shoots best with his way, and he has not ed anyone, leave him the hell alone!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Don't take up golf,you will be proven wrong ............ DOC

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 06:59
Is it state-run?

We have a state-run outdoor range here in S. FL that I avoid like the pleague! I hate "range Nazis" and I am surprised that you don't hear about them being shot by disgruntled shooters.

I refuse to go to a range that makes me take the bayonets off my AKs and SKS'!:steamed:


Don't go back and tell everyone you know NOT to use that range.

TGG

BTW....I find it odd that they require you to use slugs in your SG. The ranges here require you to shoot lead 00 buckshot:dunno:

Its a state run range and there are 5 ROs on each range and they watch you like hawks.

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 07:06
Perhaps you should check into buying more comfortable handguns.

Only a Glocks or a 1911s are in my blood. Over 20 years of shooting the two. I have tried others but ended up trading or selling them.

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 07:15
I don't want some unteachable n00b shooting next to me getting hurt in his gun hand, or having a nervous breakdown, or freaking out when a female range officer challenges his masculinity. Unsafe practices are banned.

I am no noob at shooting weapons.

I hate saying this but I recently retired from the military serving 26 years, shooting all types of weapons and going through weapons qualification every six months.

eaglefrq
03-20-2012, 07:16
I held the Glock again the way I do it and my left thumb is resting on top of my wrist and there is a 3/4 inch of clearance between my left thumb and the area where the slide kicks back. Like I mention before I have big hands. I wear XX and sometimes XXX gloves.

That changes things. I think most people felt you had your left thumb crossed over your right thumb, which would put your thumb in line with the slide.

My wife occasionally holds the gun like you do, it gives her more support on her wrist, so she doesn't limp wrist when she shoots.

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 07:24
Thanks for all the comments...I watch the video posted. I will practice the way in the video but when I was at the range I was shooting high and right.

dyobvk
03-20-2012, 07:34
You fired 50 rounds of 12 ga. shotgun slugs in one sitting? No wonder you were kicked off the range. You were probably .............never mind!

Its a new shotgun so I wanted to put it though its paces. I will never shoot 50 rounds again. Too much wear on my old body. I am still sore from it. I will keep it to no more than 15 rounds. Anyway I just wanted to shoot it. The mossberg 930 is very accurate. Only slugs are allowed on the range.

Unistat
03-20-2012, 08:04
Perhpas she was right by technique but not with dealing with people. It boils down to customer service, even if it is a volunteer position. Tell a person once, what you think is a better way. What may be better or correct may not be so for every shooter. I would have just offered some free advice. If you choose to do it your own way and it works for you, so be it. I should then kiss off and say "good bye." If you were to get injured after proper instruction, well then, there is no cure for stupid. Then it is on you.

Bolded for truth, but my disagreement is this: RSO's primary job isn't customer service. That's for the guy at the counter. If I'm responsible for that range, I do not have to sit around and watch unsafe behaviour. If I told someone and gave them a second and third chance, well that's a heck of a lot when you consider consequences one mistake with a gun can have.

Edit: OP, I'm speaking in generalities here, not specifically about you. Please take no offense.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 13:51
She was at least 60. But you know some people who tan alot look older that they are. She was not an ass about the situation.

I held the Glock again the way I do it and my left thumb is resting on top of my wrist and there is a 3/4 inch of clearance between my left thumb and the area where the slide kicks back. Like I mention before I have big hands. I wear XX and sometimes XXX gloves.

Thanks for all the comments...I watch the video posted. I will practice the way in the video but when I was at the range I was shooting high and right.

Even thought your thumb is normally well below the slide, all it would take is one slip up for that to change, and you to get injured. If you just spend some time practicing the correct grip (using a CLEARED weapon to dry fire in your home can help, too), you'll find the accuracy issue will go away, and you'll be safer.

CBennett
03-20-2012, 15:56
I don't see how you can shoot like that, thumbs forward is so much more comfortable for me.

I honestly cant even picture shooting like that(meaning how the Op was describing ) lol.

vkscott
03-20-2012, 16:44
This works for me

223932

mixflip
03-20-2012, 17:04
The range doesnt sound like a fun place to go.

As for the grip... youre using a revolver grip on a semiautomatic. Big no no. Retrain aka properly train to hold it correctly or expect to get the response you got more often. If I saw someone shooting that way, I'd either get far away from them or respectfully try to help them since they probably never had formal training on how to hold a semiauto.

If they are stubborn or rude or simply dont give a rip... oh well Im gone. Not my problem.

My friends teenage son had some bad habits and he was open to instruction thank God. Most teens are know it alls. lol

cowboy1964
03-20-2012, 17:08
Xmas card from Afghanistan: "Uncle Fred, Well they're not too big on Christmas spirit over here. Maybe it's because they don't have any Christmas trees, or maybe it's because they wipe their ass with their hand..." My nephew Cpl Mitchell U.S.M.C.

Off topic but that's the dumbest sig line I've ever seen, on multiple levels.

cavcsm
03-20-2012, 17:11
The RO was correct. I have made the same correction on the range for my own safety

Fred Hansen
03-20-2012, 17:12
Off topic but that's the dumbest sig line I've ever seen, on multiple levels.:crying:

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 17:15
:crying:

I thought it was funny. I'd be pissed off, too, if I had to wipe with my left hand.

Fred Hansen
03-20-2012, 17:26
I thought it was funny. I'd be pissed off, too, if I had to wipe with my left hand.Some people just have no sense of humor. No big deal. :wavey:

NeverMore1701
03-20-2012, 18:45
Off topic but that's the dumbest sig line I've ever seen, on multiple levels.

:crying::crying::crying:

Sporaticus
03-20-2012, 19:36
:crying:

Don't cry little juan. I think it's funny as hell. I guess there is a satirical depth lost on many.

purrrfect 10
03-20-2012, 20:17
I'm missing both thumbs figure that one out :brickwall::crying:

faawrenchbndr
03-20-2012, 20:26
Off topic but that's the dumbest sig line I've ever seen, on multiple levels.


You must have never spent any time in the dirt!
Fred's Nephew's statement is 100% true & accurate!

Don't cry Fred'.........Cowboy' just has no frickin clue!

marv
03-20-2012, 20:43
Didn't you read his initial post? The guy said he has large hands. His way works for him; her way does not.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 20:44
Didn't you read his initial post? The guy said he has large hands. His way works for him; her way does not.

Safety issues override personal preference.

CBennett
03-21-2012, 06:48
Didn't you read his initial post? The guy said he has large hands. His way works for him; her way does not.

If i want to shoot like a gangsta because its my "personal preference" I hope they kick me out lol...His style of grip is unsafe..when a preference is NOT safe its not acceptable.

oldnoob
03-21-2012, 08:01
You experts need to tell this noob he was shooting it wrong.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/miami3.jpg

oldnoob
03-21-2012, 08:15
Seriously guys, OP had already stated he have been shooting this way for Years. Stop putting "Your personal preference" as tittle of "his safety issue".

Fred Hansen
03-21-2012, 08:42
You must have never spent any time in the dirt!
Fred's Nephew's statement is 100% true & accurate!

Don't cry Fred'.........Cowboy' just has no frickin clue!:supergrin:

I'm at peace (not the Muslim kind either) but I freely admit that if I had feelings, they would quite likely have been hurt quite some time ago. Believe it, or not, that really helps take the sting out of cowboy's wickedly sharp jab.

Fred Hansen
03-21-2012, 08:43
You experts need to tell this noob he was shooting it wrong.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/miami3.jpgNot seeing any thumbs behind the slide. :dunno:

SigFTW
03-21-2012, 13:05
There are right ways and wrong ways to hold a gun. Otherwise we would have people at the range shooting like this:tongueout:

oldnoob
03-21-2012, 14:02
There are right ways and wrong ways to hold a gun. Otherwise we would have people at the range shooting like this:tongueout:

I disagree. There a good way and bad way of holding gun for each individual. If this way work for the OP. Who are we telling he was wrong.

Fragman
03-21-2012, 17:58
I disagree. There a good way and bad way of holding gun for each individual. If this way work for the OP. Who are we telling he was wrong.

Well, the range officer for one. That's who is telling him it's the wrong way.

Don't like it? Shoot somewhere else.

And, the original post said the right thumb was over left thumb. Now it's over wrist? maybe that's what he meant in the first place. He did say base if thumb. The responses given by many are in response to thumb over thumb. I can't fathom that anyone who has been shooting semi auto's 'for years' would shoot left thumb wrapped around the back over right thumb. Over wrist? Maybe, but still ill advised.

And 'big hands' basically makes it an even worse idea.

It's easy to make claims on the internet though. I have been shooting for 50 years, train ninja polar bears (ever seen one? That's how good I train them) and invented the double stuffed taco.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Berto
03-21-2012, 18:08
:eat:That's so awesome!!!
I love double stuffed tacos.

ignantmike
03-21-2012, 18:43
just find another range.....shoot the way you want....

Fragman
03-21-2012, 19:12
:eat:That's so awesome!!!
I love double stuffed tacos.

You're welcome. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

austinguy23
03-21-2012, 20:13
Some ranges are just absolutely ridiculous. They perpetuate the "nanny state" mentality.

High Altitude
03-21-2012, 23:51
This guy is using the Center Axis Relock (CAR) system.

You experts need to tell this noob he was shooting it wrong.

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/miami3.jpg

SigFTW
03-22-2012, 07:21
This guy is using the Center Axis Relock (CAR) system.

High Altitude,

Thanks for posting what stance he was using, I was curious. :thumbsup:

After reading up on the CAR stance it looks like a great close quarters shooting stance. :wow:

Shadyscott69
03-22-2012, 13:37
I guess my question is why did the OP feel the need to identify the RO as female? Not just by the use if 'she', but specifically saying 'the female RO'.

Why? Is it a subconscious thing that a female can't tell them how to shoot? Especially as they are using a dangerous grip?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:faint:

PlasticGuy
03-22-2012, 14:39
I disagree. There a good way and bad way of holding gun for each individual. If this way work for the OP. Who are we telling he was wrong.

If your hand is in the path of the bullet or slide, it is wrong. Other than that, shoot like a retard if you want. He was in the first category. Seems simple to me.

NeverMore1701
03-22-2012, 14:44
:faint:

Can you imagine the horror if she were described as black or hispanic?!


:faint:

Fatdaddy
03-22-2012, 15:39
That ro needs to mind her own business. If the op wants to shoot with a non-standard grip, let him. Experience will teach him. Bandaids are cheap. The idea that it would be a "serious" injury is a figment of her overactive imagination.

+1.
Whatever happened to Darwinism?
Your grip, your thumb, apparently it's worked for you this many years. She did her job and pointed out the dangers of your grip. Only other thing she should have said is "I told you so!" if you knocked the skin off your knuckles afterwards.

Fred Hansen
03-22-2012, 16:26
Can you imagine the horror if she were described as black or hispanic?!


:faint:[scarlett]I do declare that I'm getting the vapors just contemplating the possibility of such a travesty.[/o'hara]

:ender:











:uglylol:

RVFR
03-22-2012, 20:01
Crazy, I get the safety thing, so go to another range I say. doesn't sound all that great anyway Sounds like he's shot this way for sometime with out issues, right or wrong, wrong is a matter of opinion in most cases. just as right is. Me, hell I shoot one handed, I too have large hands, why the G21, and when I do use two, I drop the butt of the gun in the cup of thy other hand, my left hand thumb goes around my ring finger, is that wrong? it works for me, and in that is the part to safety. It works. Now as far as him getting his thumb in the way, isn't it him that gets hurt? I mean I can see the after effects, but explain to me how that will effect those giving him crap over his way of shooting, How many here have seen the left eye right hand shooter thing, crazy yet it works for some.

samurairabbi
03-22-2012, 20:12
Now as far as him getting his thumb in the way, isn't it him that gets hurt? I mean I can see the after effects, but explain to me how that will effect those giving him crap over his way of shooting, How many here have seen the left eye right hand shooter thing, crazy yet it works for some.

Because at the moment of injury, he is holding a firearm. That makes his injury more than his private affair; it becomes part of range discipline of keeping everyone safe.

WayaX
03-22-2012, 20:54
Because at the moment of injury, he is holding a firearm. That makes his injury more than his private affair; it becomes part of range discipline of keeping everyone safe.

He busts his thumb open, drops the pistol, then tries and catch it. This causes an ND.

The RO's job is to keep everyone safe, that includes keeping people safe from themselves.

R*E
03-22-2012, 21:13
I took some novice shooters to the range and one of the guys used the left thumb over right thumb grip despite my instructions to the contrary. He didn't make it through the first magazine before the slide cut him up and the blood started flowing. It was a little Buckmark that did the damage.

High Altitude
03-22-2012, 21:27
High Altitude,

Thanks for posting what stance he was using, I was curious. :thumbsup:

After reading up on the CAR stance it looks like a great close quarters shooting stance. :wow:

Takes practice, but it works for what it is ment for.

SigFTW
03-22-2012, 21:49
Takes practice, but it works for what it is ment for.

I tried it at the range today, It felt really comfortable and I was able to hit the target with no problems. My daughter was complaining because my brass was flying over the stall divider wall and into her lane :wow: because the tilt of the gun.

vkscott
03-22-2012, 22:41
You're welcome. :)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oh crap, now I'm hungry :tongueout:

AK_Stick
03-23-2012, 03:20
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.


No offense, but she's right.

On a civilian range with me RO'ing you would have been kicked off.


On my military range, you'd have been corrected, and if you insisted upon doing that, smoked, and probably no-goed and also removed from my range.

Bill Lumberg
03-23-2012, 04:16
It's a novelty. Works, but not better than more traditional methods. Definitely a different class. Takes practice, but it works for what it is ment for.

glock_collector
03-23-2012, 08:28
Stupid people do stupid things and win stupid prises. On my range your attitude is left at the door or thats where I will shove you out. For the safety of all others around you( I dont care if you shoot yourself when you are alone) rules are there for a reason. Follow them. This kinda reminds me of the "kid" in my class with the 2lb glock trigger and the IWB holster. Are you efin kidding me? Hit the road....

Houdini
03-23-2012, 13:10
she was right to do that, for the safety of the shooter,and other if the fire arm slips out of hand.

SigFTW
03-23-2012, 13:45
Stupid people do stupid things and win stupid prises. On my range your attitude is left at the door or thats where I will shove you out. For the safety of all others around you( I dont care if you shoot yourself when you are alone) rules are there for a reason. Follow them. This kinda reminds me of the "kid" in my class with the 2lb glock trigger and the IWB holster. Are you efin kidding me? Hit the road....

Are you serious, that is crazy.:shocked:
I would have done the same thing.

Paul53
03-23-2012, 16:26
Damned opposable thumbs...

Mext time you eat a burger thank the Lord for opposable thumbs so cows cant shoot an AK!

Deaf Smith
03-23-2012, 17:36
dyobvk,

She was right but...

May I suggest you find other ways to hold the weapon? Experiment and see if you can find a SAFE way to be on when shooting.

Deaf

glock_collector
03-23-2012, 18:31
I had a guy cock a long colt 45 with one finger in the trigger and both thumbs on the hammer. The muzzle went upward at a 60 degree angle. 2 instructors explained the potential issues, more than once and this guy brushed it off cause thats the way he always does it. I explained that he is a hazard to himself(indoor range) and others and showed him the door. There is no room for debate when it comes to safety. Sweep somebody and get a sad face on your score card? nope, this way is the exit.... Dont want to see ya again...

dyobvk
03-23-2012, 18:58
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.

nipperwolf
03-23-2012, 19:10
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.

We wish there was some way you could learn english. ;)

AK_Stick
03-23-2012, 19:11
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.



Just because you've learned to cope with bad habits, doesn't make them correct.


The way you shoot is still wrong, and a hazard.

samurairabbi
03-23-2012, 19:12
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.

It is with regret that I am forced to say: I won't miss you.

I have done too much firing line first aid on people who have been shooting "that way for X years with no problems". A sliced thumb from an autoloader slide is representative of this condition. I never objected to unusual firing methods, only unsafe ones.

WoodenPlank
03-23-2012, 19:16
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.

Plenty of other people use unsafe techniques for extended periods of time, but they all eventually get bit for it. What you are doing is unsafe to you, AND to those around you.

Just because you've learned to cope with bad habits, doesn't make them correct.


The way you shoot is still wrong, and a hazard.

Absolutely.

owl6roll
03-23-2012, 21:24
I don't see how you can shoot like that, thumbs forward is so much more comfortable for me.

Yuuup!

owl6roll
03-23-2012, 21:27
I know a few people who have made that mistake, once!

50 cal
03-24-2012, 09:13
Some people have have stances and grips that work for them. Yes, trying to help them works in some instances helps, sometimes not. Sounds like in the OP's instance, his grip works for him. If he is safe with it, quit giving him grief over it. If you aren't there to see if he isn't being unsafe, don't judge.

I've seen people that no matter what, can't get past that "thumb in the back grip" They aren't unsafe, haven't hurt themselves or someone else.

PaleRider505
03-24-2012, 09:27
Maybe she'll leave you alone if you put a "beavertail" on your Glock. :tongueout:

ChuteTheMall
03-24-2012, 09:34
I wish it was some way i could block people who think they are experts. I been shooting the way I explained for over 25 years with no problems. I tried the awkard today again and i still shoot high and right.

I will just skip this thread from now on.


You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you can get rid of him.
:wavey:

JuneyBooney
03-24-2012, 10:22
I bought a Mossberg 930 SPX and since none of the indoors ranges in my area alow shotguns to be shot I find an outdoor range that allows shotguns but the rounds must be slugs. I fire 50 rounds through it with only one FTF on the last round. I just wanted to get the feel because I have never shot or own a shotgun. So after I am done I want to fire my Glock 23 and try the 40-9 barrel and Glock 30 45-10 barrel. So I have to wait because the line is hot. When the line is cold I set up my target and when they say shooters lock and load and commense firing. I do. I empty one magazine, release it and load second. I am so into it all of the sudden the female range office taps me on the shoulder I put the gun down and she says your left thumb should be on the left side of the gun, not rapped around the gun over the bottom of your right thumb. The slide will hit your thumb. I told her due to my large hands I feel more comfortable with my left thumb over my right thumb. I try what she suggest but it just does not work. Rounds are high and right. I change and I am dead on. She walks by again and she interrupts me. She tells me to move my thumb to left side or leave the range. I tell her I am off when I shoot like that. She ask me to leave because she sees a injury in the making. I say are u serious.

I understand what she was saying but I am off when I shoot that way. So I left. I was mad I just packed up and left.

I am just venting. It started to rain hard so I was going to leave anyway. I didnt like the range because you have to sit on this stool to shoot our weapon and shoot through this 12 x 12 inch window. I rather be standing when I shoot.

She was "dead on balls correct". :whistling: She was avoiding injury to you and protecting the range from civil liability. Her job was to protect boneheads from injury which would include civil suits. Keep the left thumb away from the slide. It hurts when hitting skin. I would go back and apologize to her if you see her anymore. Don't feel badly. We all make mistakes now and then. Lucky you did not get hurt.

dudel
03-24-2012, 14:25
That ro needs to mind her own business.

RO was minding her business. Her business is to run a safe range.

Veedubklown
03-24-2012, 16:32
She was right.
Maybe unskilled & tactless, but still right.

I don't want some newb next to me ripping open his flesh with a loaded pistol in his hand, dancing around screaming in pain, spraying bullets everywhere.

I wouldn't doubt if there was a liability case prior that made her go over and talk to you. You injure yourself on the range after they've informed you that your committing a safety hazard, they have knowledge of your unsafe practice, and therefore would be responsible. Not saying you'd sue them for your negligence, but all bets are off when your getting stitches. Yes, it can cause that bad of an injury. I've watched dudes nail themselves by accident, and have to be out for the day, due to discomfort.

glock_collector
03-24-2012, 17:49
I love the poster that mentions the "experts" Really? how many students have you taught? You a range Officer/master? Own a range? any firearms bigger than a pellet gun? There are alot of very experienced folks around here, with tons of experience from which to make these informed statements on safety issues...I am all of the above and yet I learn and can grow with an open mind from these very folks. You however, to my dismay, will probably never open your ears,eyes and mind to gain anything here. Wont miss you, even a little.

Billy10mm
03-26-2012, 11:58
She was at least 60. But you know some people who tan alot look older that they are. She was not an ass about the situation.

I held the Glock again the way I do it and my left thumb is resting on top of my wrist and there is a 3/4 inch of clearance between my left thumb and the area where the slide kicks back. Like I mention before I have big hands. I wear XX and sometimes XXX gloves.

I wear XXX sized gloves and sometimes they don't fit .... you're doing something wrong. Watch the Todd Jarret video again. Large hands make it easier to hold pistols, not harder.

wallytoo
03-26-2012, 12:48
It's easy to make claims on the internet though. I have been shooting for 50 years, train ninja polar bears (ever seen one? That's how good I train them) and invented the double stuffed taco.

All this time, I thought I was paranoid. Now, I've learned that my sixth sense was warning me that the other five senses were not detecting the hyper-trained ninja polar bears. Finally, I can sleep at night.:cool:

samurairabbi
03-26-2012, 17:12
All this time, I thought I was paranoid. Now, I've learned that my sixth sense was warning me that the other five senses were not detecting the hyper-trained ninja polar bears. Finally, I can sleep at night.:cool:

Why did the elephant paint his toenails red?
So he could hide in a strawberry patch!
Have you ever seen an elephant in a strawberry patch?
No.
See. It works!

Fragman
03-26-2012, 21:45
Why did the elephant paint his toenails red?
So he could hide in a strawberry patch!
Have you ever seen an elephant in a strawberry patch?
No.
See. It works!

Don't be giving away all the Ninja Polar Bears best moves!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ChuteTheMall
03-28-2012, 09:03
Although many of us prefer both thumbs pointed towards the target, some serious operators lock one thumb over the other:


http://i40.tinypic.com/2it4xl1.jpg

SigFTW
03-28-2012, 10:26
Although many of us prefer both thumbs pointed towards the target, some serious operators lock one thumb over the other:


http://i40.tinypic.com/2it4xl1.jpg

:rofl::rofl:, this thread keeps on ticking :rofl::rofl:

Fred Hansen
03-28-2012, 10:59
Although many of us prefer both thumbs pointed towards the target, some serious operators lock one thumb over the other:


http://i40.tinypic.com/2it4xl1.jpghttp://www.tikitumble.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/son-I-am-disappoint.jpg

samurairabbi
03-28-2012, 13:34
:rofl::rofl:, this thread keeps on ticking :rofl::rofl:

This thread has achieved critical mass; cholera will be conquered before this thread dies out.

One point: the troglodyte in the photo has one thumb over the other ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE GUN. The OP was talking about the left thumb BEHIND the gun over the strong hand thumb; at least, that is what I think he was saying.

itstime
03-28-2012, 13:44
I was shooting at a range people I know own. He goes and tells me I'm holding my gum wrong and walks away. (he was serious). I stop and look at my grip and wonder wth


Checking out and he laughs and tells me I forgot you're a lefty. It looked all backwards.

vkscott
03-28-2012, 15:27
I was shooting at a range people I know own. He goes and tells me I'm holding my gum wrong and walks away. (he was serious). I stop and look at my grip and wonder wth


Checking out and he laughs and tells me I forgot you're a lefty. It looked all backwards.

Not sure I'd be shooting at a range that comments on how you hold your gum, unless it's in the end of the barrel :rofl:

Fragman
03-28-2012, 16:16
Not sure I'd be shooting at a range that comments on how you hold your gum, unless it's in the end of the barrel :rofl:

Well, the OP sure ain't shooting there any more :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gunman_23
03-28-2012, 18:54
Seems like somebody let the RSO title go to their head.

Sometimes an RSO will let the power go to their head yes.
But ultimately an RSO's job is to ensure EVERYONES safety and to make sure shooters are not a liability to the range or themselves.

Ultimately; their house, their rules.

WiskyT
03-28-2012, 20:14
My club requires a 6 month probationary period and several supervised shooting sessions. I volunteer as a "supervisor", essentially and RO. Tonight, the guy I was working with was doing real well. After half an hour I was just basically glancing at him every once in a while. He is (was? lol) a lefty and decided to ry shooting his 1911 right handed. He crossed his weak hand thumb over his strong side wrist when I wasn't looking at got a bad gouge in the web of his hand. He blead like the dickens for a little while.

WoodenPlank
03-29-2012, 00:09
My club requires a 6 month probationary period and several supervised shooting sessions. I volunteer as a "supervisor", essentially and RO. Tonight, the guy I was working with was doing real well. After half an hour I was just basically glancing at him every once in a while. He is (was? lol) a lefty and decided to ry shooting his 1911 right handed. He crossed his weak hand thumb over his strong side wrist when I wasn't looking at got a bad gouge in the web of his hand. He blead like the dickens for a little while.

Yet tons of people here swear up and down this grip is perfectly safe... :upeyes:

pesticidal
03-29-2012, 08:44
My club requires a 6 month probationary period and several supervised shooting sessions. I volunteer as a "supervisor", essentially and RO. Tonight, the guy I was working with was doing real well. After half an hour I was just basically glancing at him every once in a while. He is (was? lol) a lefty and decided to ry shooting his 1911 right handed. He crossed his weak hand thumb over his strong side wrist when I wasn't looking at got a bad gouge in the web of his hand. He blead like the dickens for a little while.

How the heck did he ding the web of his hand? A thumb knuckle, maybe, but the web?


:dunno:

SigFTW
03-29-2012, 11:21
I was at the range one day and I saw this guy next to me bleeding like a stick pig because of his grip. I told him you need to hold the gun with both thumbs on the same side, and even showed him. I look back later and he was still holding it wrong. After that point I left him to his own demise.:brickwall:

oldman11
03-29-2012, 12:40
People who are fairly new to shooting have a tendency to be very authoritative, especially if they are young. There is more than 1 way to do almost everything. You find the way that works best for you and that is what you use.

WiskyT
03-29-2012, 15:25
Yet tons of people here swear up and down this grip is perfectly safe... :upeyes:

He didn't intend to hold it wrong, he just got confused switching to his right hand and screwed up. I told him I know a guy that did it twice and he assured me he would never do it again:supergrin:

WiskyT
03-29-2012, 15:27
How the heck did he ding the web of his hand? A thumb knuckle, maybe, but the web?


:dunno:

"Web" was a poor choice of words. More specifically, it was the inside of his thumb between the joint right behind the nail, and the next one closer to the hand.

R*E
03-29-2012, 23:27
Did the OP stop posting in his thread because he got an owie and can't type? :supergrin: