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vaquero aleman
03-18-2012, 08:09
I know that this is stating the blatantly obvious, but I feel that I must add this disclaimer to my thread:

In my opinion, under no circumstance, should you convert the original Glock barrel to .460 Rowland! The Glock barrel does not have the proper support for the extremely high pressure .460 Rowland. Use only an aftermarket barrel with a "fully supported chamber". This is plainly stated in the remarks of Johnny Rowland, engineer of the .460 Rowland at 460rowland.com. And it should be well known that even 45 Super can cause a KB in an unsupported Glock barrel.


Well, I finally made the plunge. I ordered some 460 Rowland from Georgia Arms. Even though they are 7 to 10 days behind on shipping, it will come soon enough. I am still waiting on a custom engraved 5.2" 45TH from LWD. I think I will have the 6.61" I already own reamed for 460 and leave the 5.2" for 45 Super. I don't know what to expect from the LWD compensator when it comes to the 460 but I will be finding out. From what I can tell Johny Rowland is using a basic aftermarket stainless barrel for his conversion units, so I don't see why there should be a problem with using the LWD barrel for 460 Rowland.

If it blows up in my hand then some surgeon will just have to prove why he gets paid what he does.

borrowed from "concealco.com":
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/thumbnail.jpg

Wikipedia excerpt:
There are two key elements to the .460 Rowland concept. The first is a sharp increase in cartridge maximum pressure over the .45 ACP and .45 Super. Maximum Average Pressure is: 45 ACP (21,000 PSI), .45 ACP +P (23,000 PSI), .45 Super (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.45_Super) (28,000 PSI), .460 Rowland (40,000 PSI). The result of this pressure increase is a potential for 185-grain (12.0 g) bullets to achieve 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) MV and 230-grain (15 g) bullets to achieve 1,340 ft/s (410 m/s). The second element, in regard to M1911 type autoloaders, is to dampen or reduce the velocity of the slide to a manageable level.

ArmyDoc
03-18-2012, 19:11
What are your goals? Are you hunting with this? Just want it for the uniqueness?

I have a G21 with a slide melted RMR site. I've been toying with the idea of getting a .45-10mm conversion barrel vs. going with .45 super (or even .460 Rowland).

Meanwhile I started reloading and working up some hotter loads. Interesting thing happened when I was out yesterday - when shooting my latest loads (top end of the .45 ACP loadings in 200gn JHP) I realized I didn't want any more recoil. I don't have a chrono, but if the charts are right probably only 940-950fps.

I like to put 50-100 rounds down range at a time minimum. If I go down to a slower powder, I may be able to get a little more speed without much more recoil. But based on what I experienced with this load, 185-200grain JHPs at 1500 fps is not something I'm going to be able to shoot more than a few times before the recoil starts bothering me.

Have you shot .460 Rowland or .45 super before? You might want to try it before putting a lot of money towards conversions... just a thought from someone a little behind you, but on a similar path.

vaquero aleman
03-18-2012, 19:57
My 21 is set up for 45 Super now. I ran a box and a half of BB 185gr 45 Super through both barrels, 6.61" and glock stock and posted my results on the 45 Super thread by flyandscuba. Unfortunately I do not have a chrono so I have to assume that it was what BB said it was. I guess you could say I'm a little power hungry. I had a 20 that I set up with the 6" slide/barrel from LWD and shot a few hundred through it before selling it, compliments of the economy. I really liked the 10mm and I was actually looking for another 20 when I happened to find a 21OD I couldn't pass up. Of course the more I read the more I found out about 45 super and 460 Rowland, and a few paychecks down the road I'm almost ready for the 460. Johnny Rowland, the engineer of the 460, states that properly set up the 460 does not have much more recoil than the 45acp. So I decided to test the waters. I will have two LWD barrels so I figured it wouldn't hurt to try 460 out on one of them. I've got a 22 and 24# Wolff spring/guide rod and the LWD comp and all I need now is the GA Arms I ordered and my LGS to ream the chamber for me, which he said he can do with his 45-70 reamer.


http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/G4.jpg
G21, LWD 6.61" 45TH, LWD 45Comp, Wolff guide rod/22# recoil spring.

ArmyDoc
03-19-2012, 08:02
How do you like the compensator? Did you get a lot of blast / flash with it?

vaquero aleman
03-19-2012, 09:39
I could not see any discharge from the comp. I expected to see something, considering the 185gr @ 1300fps I was shooting. But, BB does claim that thier powder eliminates flash; I suppose it's possible. I believe that my next range trip will include some sort of camera to record the side view. I don't have an expensive camcorder so slow mo probably won't be an option for me. Unless I can find some software to convert the video with.

I wasn't overly impressed with the muzzle control of the 45 Super, out of the LWD comp. I'm not sure what to expect with the 460, but I'm definately willing to find out. I don't think that the LWD comp has enough vertical porting, so I may do some modifying on it.

vaquero aleman
03-19-2012, 11:13
There is something that confuses me though. Ace custom 45's, who "trademarked" the 45 Super states that they use a 25# recoil spring and BB suggests the use of a recoil buffer, both for the 45 Super. 460rowland.com states that they use a 24# recoil spring, a 45acp compensator and recommends that a recoil buffer not be used, all for the 460 Rowland. This information would lead me to believe that the 45 Super was a hotter load than the 460 Rowland, which I know is not the case. Quite the opposite. So, I am really not sure what to make of this except that maybe someone is over-stating thier position in order to boost thier sales. I dunno.

ArmyDoc
03-20-2012, 08:33
As I understand it, the Ace Custom set up was originally designed for standard 1911 .45's, many of which were not as robust as more modern firearms. So, the buffer may have been brought over from that.

From what I've read, the buffers don't last very long, and when they wear out they fragment, which can cause jamming. That may be why rowland doesn't recommend them.

Also, The pressures in the 45 super might be higher than the 460 Rrowland, even though the velosity is higher in the Rowland. The super is a standard length case, so smaller volume than the longer 460 case, which would mean more pressure for the same amount of powder. Maybe this has something to do with it?

BTW, How much more recoil did the Super have than a standard 45?

vaquero aleman
03-20-2012, 10:44
As you can see from the Wikipedia excerpt "thier" stated pressures show the 460 well above 45acp, +p, and Super.

Wikipedia:
The .460 Rowland case is approximately 1/16" (.0625 inches (1.59 mm)) longer than a conventional .45 ACP (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.45_ACP). However, the overall cartridge length of the .460 Rowland is the same as the .45 ACP as the bullet is seated a bit deeper. This means the practical case capacity for both cartridges is identical. Case length for the .45 ACP is 0.898 inches (22.8 mm) and cartridge overall length is 1.275 inches (32.4 mm). Case length for the .460 Rowland is 0.955 inches (24.3 mm) and cartridge overall length is 1.275 inches (32.4 mm). The purpose of the extended case length is to prevent the high pressure .460 Rowland from being chambered in a standard firearm chambered for the low pressure .45 ACP, similar to the relationship between the .357 Magnum (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.357_Magnum) and the .38 Special (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.38_Special). The overall cartridge length restriction imposed on both cartridges is established by the cartridge length capacity of the M1911 (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/M1911) design.[citation needed (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]
There are two key elements to the .460 Rowland concept. The first is a sharp increase in cartridge maximum pressure over the .45 ACP and .45 Super. Maximum Average Pressure is: 45 ACP (21,000 PSI), .45 ACP +P (23,000 PSI), .45 Super (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.45_Super) (28,000 PSI), .460 Rowland (40,000 PSI). The result of this pressure increase is a potential for 185-grain (12.0 g) bullets to achieve 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) MV and 230-grain (15 g) bullets to achieve 1,340 ft/s (410 m/s). The second element, in regard to M1911 type autoloaders, is to dampen or reduce the velocity of the slide to a manageable level.

The recoil of the Super was quite snappy but when I concentrated on what I was doing it was controllable. I remember my G20 imparting quite a stinging sensation in my hand, where I did not experience that with the 45 Super. It is probably in line with the hot 10mm loads, which is understandable, considering it's ballistics are very similar to the 10mm.

And I can personally attest to the fact that the recoil buffers don't seem to hold up:
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/63-1.jpg

This one started splitting after about 150 rounds, 45acp and Super. Wilson Combat advertised life expectancy is 1000 rounds.

vaquero aleman
03-22-2012, 16:50
I have also ordered a 45acp comp from EFK because I just don't feel that the LWD comp has enough vertical porting. And the EFK comp just happens to be shaped like the Glock slide. Boy am I going to have a hand full when I get this thing put together!

vaquero aleman
03-23-2012, 05:27
I received the GA Arms 460 Rowland, it is 1300fps, not 1350fps and after I phoned them they corrected thier listing. But that is still pretty hot for a 230gr GDHP. And not bad for GA Arms considering they load below the original cartridge specifications anyway.

RWBlue
03-23-2012, 09:41
I received the GA Arms 460 Rowland, it is 1300fps, not 1350fps and after I phoned them they corrected thier listing. But that is still pretty hot for a 230gr GDHP. And not bad for GA Arms considering they load below the original levels anyway.

Temperature, altitude, or a chronograph being slightly out of tune could be the cause of a 50fps difference.

And yea, 1300fps is very zippy in an pistol shooting 230gr.

vaquero aleman
03-23-2012, 12:41
I apologize for not being clear. 1300fps was on the GA Arms ammo package label. When I stop spending money on the gun then maybe I can spend some on a chrony. And, unfortunately, I am still waiting for the barrel so I haven't had the opportunity to shoot any of the 460 yet. I am hoping it will be as smooth as 460rowland.com shows it to be. His 1911, 460 conversion, makes it look like he's shooting 9mm.

vaquero aleman
03-25-2012, 12:52
GA Arms 230gr 460 Rowland Speer Unicore, BB 185gr 45 Super JHP:
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/025.jpg
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/024-1.jpg

GA Arms 230gr 460 Rowland Speer Unicore, GA Arms 180gr 10mm FMJ:
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20and%20Ammo/027.jpg

Double Tap Ammo has a 40 Super load "listed" as a 180gr Nosler @ 1450fps from a 6" barrel. I have learned from this and other websites to take Double Tap with a grain of salt. The 40 Super however is a very impressive round, and the potential is noteable. That being said, Georgia Arms, who I trust very much, has a 460 Rowland load listed as a 185gr Speer Unicore @ 1400fps (defensive load) from a 5" barrel. I feel that the fact that this is a 45 caliber round is more than sufficient to help me with my decision to go the "460 Rowland" route. Most people think that either round is excessive when it comes to "defense" rounds. Granted, it does give me pause when I consider that defending myself or loved ones with the 460 Rowland may cause innocent bystanders some injury. I still feel that, as apposed to getting another 10mm pistol or going with the 40 Super conversion, that 460 Rowland with a "defensive loading" is for me. After all, wouldn't a 45 caliber round be stopped by the body quicker than a 40 caliber round? And, I get to use my G21 with 13rd mags instead of buying some great big "jack hammer" that only holds 6rds.

vaquero aleman
04-05-2012, 17:31
I am ready to give this thing a work-out. I've already installed the 24# spring, which is ok considering I keep it loaded with Buffalo Bore 45 Super 185gr JHP @ 1300fps.

.460 Rowland(eventually)
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/Guns%20n%20Ammo%202/DSCN0367-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
04-06-2012, 08:26
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/storfront20Small-1.jpg

I spoke with "one of the guys" from Georgia Arms this morning, and asked him about the .460 Rowland. He told me that they use a 1911 with a kit they got from Clark Custom with a 5" barrel for all of thier .460's velocity ratings. He also reassured me that the 185gr Nosler JHP @ 1550fps rating was correct, and to quote "it is a handfull".

vaquero aleman
04-09-2012, 08:02
Since I can't shoot the .460 ammo out of the barrel that I still don't have, I found a different way to shoot it:

From Villa Rica GA to my door, 50 round package = $50.

.460 Rowland(.451 aka 45 caliber) 230grains, Speer Unicore Gold Dot Hollow Point bullet, 1300 feet per second, 863.3 foot pounds of muzzle energy from a 5" barrel. Fired from a G21, XD or 1911(select models).


http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0383.jpg


http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0388.jpg


http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0390.jpg

.460 loaded into my G21 mag.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0397.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0396.jpg

RWBlue
04-09-2012, 08:27
I love the look of those bullets.

vaquero aleman
04-14-2012, 07:40
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/image001.jpg

Don't hold me to it, but a little birdy, from LWD, told me that a new offering is on the table. It is possible that very soon barrels chambered for .460 Rowland will be available. Hopefully there won't be any legal snags and all of the technical stuff will be worked out, then somebody will have to start a new club.

vaquero aleman
04-30-2012, 06:16
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/45%20Super/DSCN0414.jpg

Got my barrel, but LWD told me that they could not ream the chamber, bummer.

So I ordered this:
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/830355.jpg
45 ACP pistol chamber reamer from Brownells, for $78 to my door, we shall see...

RWBlue
04-30-2012, 09:53
That is one shinny compensator. It needs to be dirtied up a little. :-)

vaquero aleman
04-30-2012, 13:09
Well, Hot Dog! I finally got this thing licked! The only thing left is to "pull the trigger". The Clymer 45 ACP barrel chamber reamer did it's job, although if it is not precisely the way it should be I won't know, because I am not a gunsmith(woops). Regardless, the 460 Rowland round fits just the same way that the 45 ACP did before I started cutting. So, here's wishing me luck when I go to the range.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0446-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0448-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0440-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0442.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0454-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0528.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-01-2012, 11:20
I received the GA Arms 460 Rowland, it is 1300fps, not 1350fps and after I phoned them they corrected thier listing. But that is still pretty hot for a 230gr GDHP. And not bad for GA Arms considering they load below the original cartridge specifications anyway.

Georgia Arms has since changed thier listed specs for thier .460 Rowland 230gr GDHP load to 1350fps, which is, according to wikipedia, the max loading for this cartridge. This is impressive coming from Georgia Arms because they usually load below maximum specs(reiteration).

vaquero aleman
05-01-2012, 17:46
Two paragraphs from Wikipedia; the point I hope to make here is showing the difference between the pressure potential of 10mm and .460 Rowland:

The 10mm outperforms the .40 S&W by 200–250 ft/s (61–76 m/s) for similar bullet weights when using available full power loads,[9] (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cite_note-8) as opposed to the "10mm F.B.I." level loads still found in some ammunition catalogs.[10] (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cite_note-9)[11] (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cite_note-10) This is due to the 10mm Auto's higher S.A.A.M.I. pressure rating of 37,500 psi (259,000 kPa),[5] (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated2-4) as opposed to 35,000 psi (240,000 kPa) for the .40 S&W,[5] (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/#cite_note-autogenerated2-4) and the larger case capacity, which allows the use of heavier bullets and more smokeless powder (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/Smokeless_powder)

There are two key elements to the .460 Rowland concept. The first is a sharp increase in cartridge maximum pressure over the .45 ACP and .45 Super. Maximum Average Pressure is: 45 ACP (21,000 PSI), .45 ACP +P (23,000 PSI), .45 Super (http://www.glocktalk.com/wiki/.45_Super) (28,000 PSI), .460 Rowland (40,000 PSI). The result of this pressure increase is a potential for 185-grain (12.0 g) bullets to achieve 1,500 ft/s (460 m/s) MV and 230-grain (15 g) bullets to achieve 1,340 ft/s (410 m/s). The second element, in regard to M1911 type autoloaders, is to dampen or reduce the velocity of the slide to a manageable level.

What is the reason for making this point; I guess just to say that .460 Rowland is obviously the more potent of the two, uses a larger diameter bullet and that they are shot out of the same frame. I really haven't decided what the best course would be for addressing the difference in slide weight, because if a longer slide is installed, on the 21, then a longer barrel is needed and a higher velocity is attained. I don't know if that plays a role in slide velocity or not. Regardless, since I now have a G21 set up for .460 Rowland, that is the research I will engage in.

Albeit, Georgia Arms frequently runs out of components to make thier ammo, they are still an excellent ammo source and they are loading .460 Rowland. Buffalo Bore and Corbon are also excellent ammo companies and they are both loading .460 Rowland. The brass and components needed for loading 460 at home can be had from MidwayUSA and probably many other places. Yes, 10mm is making a strong showing as far as companies loading it, but .460 seems to be gaining steam.

vaquero aleman
05-02-2012, 09:03
Finally got some range time(G21 converted for .460 Rowland):
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/45%20Super/DSCN0427-2.jpg

I ran a very conservative trial, only 14 rounds, Georgia Arms is in thier "out of components" mode with the .460 Rowland right now so I didn't want to leave myself short on ammo. Of course, Johnny Rowland claims that a person can shoot 45 Super or 45 ACP out of his .460 barrels, but I just don't know if I want to do that. There is a 1/16" gap between the mouth of the case and the throat of the chamber, if you load 45 ACP into a .460 Rowland barrel.

The Georgia Arms 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps shot very well out of the LWD barrel(reamed out by myself, a "non-gunsmith"). I really need the time and ammo to make a decent assessment, but I can say that I am no longer worried about how it will shoot. It shoots great. The round will definately get your attention. I couldn't believe the size of the holes that it made in the paper.

I did have several FTF's so when I got back home I immediately changed the 24# out for the 22#. I am hoping that the reduced spring weight will stop the FTF's but I have to shoot it to know for sure. The FTF's occured with and without the comp installed, so I am assuming that the 24# spring was too much for the slightly weaker Ga Arms ammo. And I had to go ahead and threadlock the comp(I am not going to tighten down the set screws, as the comp is made of aluminum) because the .460, on the first shot, loosened the threads enough to spin the comp and it was pretty tight when I screwed it on.

It was not as violent as I was expecting, so I guess the comp is a help. Again, much more shooting needs to be done. But, you definately know that you are shooting a hot round and I imagine that the 24# spring dampened the slide more than I am allowing for it. With this round you definately want to be paying attention each time that you fire. I can't quite figure it out, but even though the .460 is much more potent than the 10mm, it just didn't feel like the "smack you in the hand snappiness" that I experienced with the G20 that I had. Of course, I left the factory stock spring in the G20 which probably accounts for most of the slide smacking.

***The modification that I performed on the extractor worked very well also. I removed the depressor plunger spring, cut about one and a half curls out of the spring(about the thickness of the bearing head) and re-installed everything. The brass landed exactly where it should, out to the right. Hallelujah!

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0444-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-09-2012, 09:15
Now that I have had time to mull over my .460 shooting experience with my 21, I have come to a different conclusion. I believe that my FTF's were not caused by the recoil spring being too stiff but by the increased velocity of the slide. So, I am going to order the Sprinco "Cor bon" recoil reduction guide rod system.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/sprdillon.gif

If this system fixes my FTF problem then I will be able to shoot this ammo without the porting or compensator and I will most likely install a factory length barrel for better ease of carry. I don't think that I will be giving up anything when it comes to the overall power of the .460 Rowland by using a 4.6" barrel as apposed to a longer one. And, I really like the setup of the G21 with a factory length barrel. I have found that I don't really care for the longer barrels. If I were an avid hunter...

ArmyDoc
05-09-2012, 16:19
... I can't quite figure it out, but even though the .460 is much more potent than the 10mm, it just didn't feel like the "smack you in the hand snappiness" that I experienced with the G20 that I had. Of course, I left the factory stock spring in the G20 which probably accounts for most of the slide smacking.



I think the reason is because of the bullet weight. 10mm compared to 45 super/460rowland is similar to the .40 to .45 acp difference. The smaller caliber and lighter bullet has a "snappier" (is that even a word?) recoil than the larger heavier round. I don't have any personnal experience with this, but I've heard the same thing said about full house .357 mag vs 44 mag rounds.

I think it is because while the recoil is bigger, it is spread out over a slightly longer duration due to the higher innertia of the bigger bullet.

RWBlue
05-09-2012, 16:45
Unless the comp is much better than anticipated.....I don't think it is a problem with the 24# spring. In fact I would assume just the opposite.

I would suggest shooting it with some 45ACP. The gap should not be an issue with safety. It may be an issue with reliability to fire.

Test with standard spring and standard barrel.
Test with heavy spring and standard barrel.
Test with regular spring and new barrel.
Test with heavy spring and new barrel.

vaquero aleman
05-12-2012, 10:28
I know that this is stating the blatantly obvious, but I feel that I must add this disclaimer to my thread:

In my opinion, under no circumstance, should you convert the original Glock barrel to .460 Rowland! The Glock barrel does not have the proper support for the extremely high pressure .460 Rowland. Use only an aftermarket barrel with a "fully supported chamber". This is plainly stated in the remarks of Johnny Rowland, engineer of the .460 Rowland at 460rowland.com. And it should be well known that even 45 Super can cause a KB in an unsupported Glock barrel.


Lone Wolf Distributors seems to be behind the 8 ball right now with thier shipping. I ordered a mag "spring" three days ago and it hasn't left thier warehouse yet. I ordered the Sprinco on the 11th and I received it on the 14th. I guess we just have to take it the way it's dished out and then ask for seconds.

orangeride
05-12-2012, 20:03
I think you your right about the slide speed causing ftf issues. The reason most guys are running comps is to slow things down. I would keep it sprung stiff and maybe try a stiffer mag spring to bring then next round up quicker. Your ftf issues also could be related to the tight LW chamber. I've been reading some of your other post's and you haven't mentioned about how far your emptys are being ejected. That could give you a pretty good idea if your in the right range with your recoil spring.

vaquero aleman
05-12-2012, 21:23
I think you your right about the slide speed causing ftf issues. The reason most guys are running comps is to slow things down. I would keep it sprung stiff and maybe try a stiffer mag spring to bring then next round up quicker. Your ftf issues also could be related to the tight LW chamber. I've been reading some of your other post's and you haven't mentioned about how far your emptys are being ejected. That could give you a pretty good idea if your in the right range with your recoil spring.

My empties are flying about six to ten feet off to the right. And I'm running a 24# spring on a Wolff rod, original Glock slide.

On Monday-14th I received a Sprinco "Cor Bon" recoil reducer to install. I don't know when I'll see the magazine spring I ordered from LWD, they seemed to be zoned out right now.

vaquero aleman
05-13-2012, 16:09
I am so confident that the Sprinco Cor Bon recoil reducer is going to allow me to shoot 460 Rowland from my G21 without a compensator or porting that I cut down my LWD 45TH to 4.75". Essentially I just cut off the threaded portion of the barrel. I felt like that would be a lot cheaper than the $150 for another LWD barrel. Early in this coming week I will know for sure because I plan on getting some shootin hole time as soon as I pick up the package from the P.O. I really look foward to testing this beast:

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0490.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0497.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0496.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0503.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-14-2012, 13:36
I hate reporting bad news. But, we take it on the chin and keep on fighting. I received the Sprinco unit today and went to the shootin hole. I ran a full mag of BB 45 Super 185gr JHP @ 1300fps and 10 rounds of Ga Arms 460 Rowland 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps through the 4.75" LWD barrel with the Sprinco Cor Bon recoil reducer. And, unfortunately, it did not fix my feeding problems, close, but not close enough. Also, the slide to frame impact was not reduced in the manner in which was claimed. So I called Sprinco and talked to a gentleman that said "just drop it in the mail to us and we will change out the sub spring and send it back to you, just include return postage". Well, I guess I can't ask for any more than that. Except that they could have done this in the first place, but then it's not thier fault that I had to go and modify my G21 to do something that it was not designed to do. But, it shore is a purdy thang and they did throw in a free bottle of "machine gunner's lube":

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0504.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0506.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0515-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0514-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0518-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0510-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-16-2012, 05:49
I am so confident that the Sprinco Cor Bon recoil reducer is going to allow me to shoot 460 Rowland from my G21 without a compensator or porting that I cut down my LWD 45TH to 4.75". Essentially I just cut off the threaded portion of the barrel. I felt like that would be a lot cheaper than the $150 for another LWD barrel. Early in this coming week I will know for sure because I plan on getting some shootin hole time as soon as I pick up the package from the P.O. I really look foward to testing this beast:

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0490.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0497.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0496.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0503.jpg

And; A beast it is! The Sprinco stock Cor Bon recoil reducer did not handle the 460 Rowland very well but Sprinco USA is going to upgrade the sub spring and then I will try it again.

At the very least though, my testing has shown me that shooting 460 Rowland without the compensator or porting is absolutely possible. I just have to fine tune the system. And if I want to try different recoil spring weights then I will have to purchase ISMI springs because the Wolff springs will not work with the Sprinco unit. The small end of the Wolff spring will get hung on the Sprinco sub spring cover.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0506-1-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-21-2012, 09:46
I called and spoke with a Sprinco guy and the conversation was; what weight recoil spring do you provide and how do you know which sub spring to use? The guy told me that they provide a 17# recoil spring with their G20/21 recoil reducer and that they use the power factor to determine the sub spring weight. He said that the 230gr @1350fps was 230 X 1350 = 310,500 / 1,000 = 310.5 so the power factor is 310. He also said that he was working with a cartridge that another customer had sent in that was a 10MM 200gr @ 1600fps with a power factor of 320 and I found that a little hard to believe, but it was not my place to question what his customer told him. Also, he said that he was absolute about which sub spring to use for the Rowland round. Which means that they have to change, at the customer's request, the sub spring on thier Cor Bon model to accommodate the 460 Rowland. Hope so, because that 17# recoil spring lets the slide move pretty darn fast shooting 460 Rowland!

And, regardless of his statement that the 17# recoil spring is adequate for use coupled with the recoil reducer, I am going to prepare my Wolff springs for use with the reducer(small ends have to be stretched to fit over the sub spring cover). I want to have the 20, 22 and 24# springs available for experimentation, so that I get this beast properly and thoroughly tamed.

Wikipedia excerpt:
"Conversion kits co-developed by Wild West Guns and Jonny Rowland for the Smith & Wesson M&P (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P), Glock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock) and Springfield Armory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_Armory,_Inc.) Tactical striker type pistols, due to locking system differences, do not require use of a compensator. Slide velocity in these converted firearms is controlled with a change to the recoil spring alone. Consequently, the converted firearm is lighter and more compact than a converted 1911 type."

Glock 21, .460 Rowland - LWD(modified) 4.75" barrel, no comp-no porting, with a 22# recoil spring on a Sprinco recoil reducer(upgraded sub spring) and doubled standard magazine springs, 850 ft lbs of muzzle energy, with the Georgia Arms ammo.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0491.jpg

vaquero aleman
05-25-2012, 07:57
deleted.

vaquero aleman
05-25-2012, 08:16
Georgia Arms has since changed thier listed specs for thier .460 Rowland 230gr GDHP load to 1350fps, which is, according to wikipedia, the max loading for this cartridge. This is impressive coming from Georgia Arms because they usually load below maximum specs(reiteration).

I must report that the Georgia Arms 460 Rowland 230gr GDHP will remain @ 1300 fps, from a 5" barrel. They seem to have a problem with someone, in thier logistics dept., changing thier listing to 1350 fps. But one of the gurus told me that it will not change from 1300 fps because the primer cannot handle any more pressure. And he also suggested that the "other guys that list thier 460 Rowland 230gr ammo @ 1350fps" are fudging thier stats a little bit.

vaquero aleman
05-29-2012, 16:15
From me to 460rowland.com

"I read a realguns.com article that stated that Wild West Guns offers an XD conversion kit that replaces the stock barrel with a .460 Rowland barrel of the same length. A barrel without the porting or threading for a compensator. And only a change of the guide rod and recoil spring. Will you guys be offering such a conversion?"

From Johnny Rowland to me

"Thanks for your interest in our cartridge. While I like and respect
the folks at Wild West, I am not comfortable with an unported or
uncompensated barrel. I do not believe that a spring change can
alter the recoil impulse enough to ensure long life of the guns. We
prefer and will continue to offer only ported barrels or barrels with
compensators."

Johnny Rowland

woodsloafer
05-30-2012, 22:50
Vaquero Aleman,

Thanks for the continual updates on your project...I'm enjoying the heck out of it and learning from your journey.

Thanks Again,

Jerry

vaquero aleman
05-31-2012, 05:08
woodsloafer,

You are quite welcome. Hopefully my next post will be about success and not just another twist in the journey. If I were to accept what mr. Rowland says then I should just stop what I am doing and either put my G21 back in it's original state or buy his kit. But I never did listen to my mother, or my elders.

vaquero aleman
05-31-2012, 09:53
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0563.jpg


My attempt to crown a barrel. You can only do so much with a Dremel. I used my barrel chamber reamer to square up the end of the barrel for better accuracy, which is why there is a slight ridge on the inside tip of the barrel.

reflex264
06-01-2012, 16:21
woodsloafer,

You are quite welcome. Hopefully my next post will be about success and not just another twist in the journey. If I were to accept what mr. Rowland says then I should just stop what I am doing and either put my G21 back in it's original state or buy his kit. But I never did listen to my mother, or my elders.

As bad as I hate to say it it might be time to buy his kit. Everything I know about them is that they are top notch and you will be able to finally enjoy a hot rod glock. I hate to see you throw your work away but the smile on your face from ripping off a magazine of Rowlands without a jam would be worth it. reflex264

vaquero aleman
06-01-2012, 17:13
As bad as I hate to say it it might be time to buy his kit. Everything I know about them is that they are top notch and you will be able to finally enjoy a hot rod glock. I hate to see you throw your work away but the smile on your face from ripping off a magazine of Rowlands without a jam would be worth it. reflex264

After today, I just may be inclined to agree with you.

If I wasn't shooting with a limp wrist before my range trip, I definitely was afterwards!

If I had to sum up the .460 Rowland (shot without the comp) in a word, it would be - OFFENSIVE!

After shooting 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps today, I may just rethink my goals. I switched between all three of my recoil springs with the Sprinco unit and just couldn't get the dang thing to feed. The slide is just moving too fast, even with extra power mag springs it is stove piping the next round. But, even if I did get the beast to feed properly, after only three mags I realized that the recoil is more than what could be considered acceptable. That is something that I never expected to be a problem. I guess that I will just have to deal with having a compensator. Although; I was pleasantly suprised when I shot some 45acp - it felt like shooting a bb gun after shooting the Rowland! And, it also helped make me feel better when I put the Wolff rod and 20# spring back in and ran a couple mags of 45acp just like clockwork.

And even though it was after the fact, I finally managed to get two standard mag springs to fit into the follower and into the mag, which made the pushing force of the follower much greater than the "extra power mag springs".

Underwood Ammo is now offering 45 Super and I plan on getting some of the 230gr GDHP @ 1100fps and giving that a shot. Or two. After shooting a couple mags of BB 45 Super 185gr @ 1300fps and only having a few jams I have a feeling that the 230gr @ 1100fps can be made to work, with a lot less recoil.

I must say, even though the Sprinco didn't really help with my feeding issues, it worked perfectly as stated. I could not see any evidence of impact on the frame, even though I felt plenty of impact on my wrist!

If you really want to know what it's like to shoot .460 Rowland, just put one together. I guarantee it will be memorable!

G21, 4.75" LWD barrel(cut down from 5.2" and reamed for 460 Rowland), 24# Wolff recoil spring on a Sprinco(460 Rowland) recoil reducer, three "double spring" magazines(standard G21 springs), GA Arms 460 Rowland 230gr GDHP @ 1300fps.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0559-4.jpg

vaquero aleman
06-13-2012, 17:28
I just wanted to throw a little love out there.

"I sure am glad that this thread didn't turn out to be a battle of the technical gurus."

Like the Skynyrd song says, I'm just a simple man.

vaquero aleman
06-14-2012, 14:52
I know that this is stating the blatantly obvious, but I feel that I must add this disclaimer to my thread:

In my opinion, under no circumstance, should you convert the original Glock barrel to .460 Rowland! The Glock barrel does not have the proper support for the extreme high pressure .460 Rowland. Use only an aftermarket barrel with a "fully supported chamber". This is plainly stated in the remarks of Johnny Rowland, engineer of the .460 Rowland at 460rowland.com. And it should be well known that even 45 Super can cause a KB in an unsupported Glock barrel.

vaquero aleman
06-29-2012, 12:42
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0440-1.jpg

I shot 4 mags of 460 today, out of my 4.75" straight barrel/no comp. I thought my double sprung mags were going to work but the last two rounds out of 10 kept jamming. If I could be content with 7 or 8 rounds, it fed perfectly up to the last two rounds. They looked like they were trying to feed at the same time. I guess the violence was shaking them out of the mag. Every magful of ten rounds did the same thing, so I believe this was the last nail in the coffin. No more 460 without a comp.

Thankfully, it shot 3 mags of the 45 Super without failure. I can't really complain about haveing a 230gr Gold Dot hollow point moving at 1100 fps. I don't know much about the competition "power factor" but the 45S 230gr @ 1100fps has a PF of 253 where the 10mm 200gr @ 1250fps has a PF of 250. I have read many threads about Double Tap being chrony'd well below thier velocity ratings, so I do not believe that thier 200gr is actually loaded to 1300fps. Which means, for me, that I will take 45 Super over 10mm any day.

I just wish that I could find the dinero to buy the 4" XD and Johnny's kit, or a G30 and my kit. I believe that they would make a perfect carry piece. I wonder if people are haveing the same feeding issues with the XD and high power ammo?

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0499-1.jpg

I would like to say that shooting .460 Rowland out of my Glock 21 is absolutely bad ass! Every time that I start to pull the trigger I feel like I need to go ahead and flinch first. When that round goes off, all I can think is "holy s**t!".

vaquero aleman
08-06-2012, 07:54
Underwood Ammo told me that they are currently awaiting a test gun and as soon as they receive that they will be working up some 460 Rowland. I can't wait to see what they come up with. Georgia arms is always out of components and the other guys sell boxes of "20" so it will be nice to have another company to buy 460 from.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0390.jpg

NoJoy
08-07-2012, 00:39
Very cool to hear!

vaquero aleman
09-05-2012, 08:16
It is now official. Underwood Ammo is selling .460 Rowland.

185gr @ 1500fps and 230gr @ 1350fps both in the Speer bonded Gold Dot hollow point. And they come in 50 round boxes for apx. $45 per box.

Both Corbon and BB sell 20 round boxes at $30+ per box.

So, Georgia Arms is still the best price but they never have it in stock.

vaquero aleman
09-12-2012, 21:34
Imagine 357 magnum velocity (1500 fps) with a 45 caliber bullet (185 grain) in a Speer Gold Dot hollow point. That is what I got from Underwood ammo. .460 Rowland, 100 rounds in two boxes. I can't wait to get to the range!

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0474-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
09-15-2012, 11:34
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/DSCN0490.jpg

Shot a couple of mags of the 185gr @ 1500fps and the very first round left the case hung in the chamber. I can only assume that it was slightly overcharged. The remaining rounds fired all had some case bulging so when I got back home I checked the chamber against another barrel and found that it was a lot looser, so I won't be using that barrel any more. Other than that the remaining rounds shot just fine. All I can say is that this stuff is HOT! Except for the first round everything else fed ok, but then my 21 is highly modified. I'm here to tell ya; I feel sorry for the bad guy that gets in front of these bullets!

vaquero aleman
10-03-2012, 18:11
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0557-2.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0553-2.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0518-2.jpg

Other than a few minor hiccups, I believe that I have accomplished my goal of making my Glock 21 capable of firing .460 Rowland without having to use a threaded barrel and a compensator. The Sprinco system (upgraded to the power factor of 310) seems to be taming the recoil enough that I am not worried about damage to the frame. Although it does appear that continued firing of .460 Rowland in this 21 will still be much rougher on it than I would like for it to be. I have read complaints of .460 Rowland breaking components on the Springfield XD series of pistols. But, to be able to shoot ammo that is superior in diameter, velocity and muzzle energy to 10mm, from the same platform that 10mm is shot from, is what I have been striving to accomplish. And, I will never feel under gunned with 12 rounds of 45 caliber 185gr @ 1500fps ammunition.

voonman
10-14-2012, 20:12
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0557-2.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0553-2.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0518-2.jpg

Other than a few minor hiccups, I believe that I have accomplished my goal of making my Glock 21 capable of firing .460 Rowland without having to use a threaded barrel and a compensator. The Sprinco system (upgraded to the power factor of 310) seems to be taming the recoil enough that I am not worried about damage to the frame. Although it does appear that continued firing of .460 Rowland in this 21 will still be much rougher on it than I would like for it to be. I have read complaints of .460 Rowland breaking components on the Springfield XD series of pistols. But, all in all, to be able to shoot ammo, from a 45AP handgun, that is superior in diameter, velocity and muzzle energy to 10mm from the same platform is what I have been striving to accomplish. Although, great care must be taken with the implementation of .460 Rowland, I will never feel under gunned with 12 rounds of 45 caliber 185gr @ 1500fps ammunition.


Very glad that you made this report...It has been very informative and it relates to one of my questions i had for the 460Rowland...I currently own the 460Rowland Conversion for my glock 30 and shooting 185gr Nosler Hollow Points ,rated at 1550fps from JDs Custom Bullets ..and it shoot like a dream..I recently spoke with Thomas Who works for Johnny rowland at 460rowland.com and i asked him if there is anyway that i can shoot my glock30 without the screw on compensator even by installing a heavier recoil spring and he said that this is highly not recommended due to the power factor of the 460rowland, it would beat up the frame of the gun and cause alot of FTFs ..the Compensator plays a huge factor in controlling the slide to feed the ammo and function properly without increasing the stress of wear and tear to the glock 30..Also he stated that they were going to offer the S&W M&P but before they could make it to 1000rounds..the gun started to fall apart..So they pulled the project of there conversion for this gun.. I have a thread on my review and a few photos..here is the link of my review..thanx again for the continous feedback on your project... http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1440720

vaquero aleman
11-27-2012, 08:12
deleted.

RWBlue
11-27-2012, 08:30
I'm thinking about selling this G21. What should I ask for it? Any opinions?

The problem with any customized setup (even the perfect setup) is that you need to find a buyer that want exactly that setup.

You might have better odds on selling the conversion parts over the internet and the gun locally. This way you are not fighting shipping to an FFL.

As far as price, I don't know. Everyone on the internet never lose money when they sell a gun. Everyone I talk to locally always lose money when they sell a gun.

21Glock
11-27-2012, 17:18
I went ahead and ordered a .460 kit for my G21 from Thomas at .460Rowland.com today. It should be in about 3 weeks. Maybe before deer season is out here in Georgia on Jan 1st.
I'll order up some .460 brass and 230-240gr. bullets from Midway later this week. Can't wait to see how it does on my Gen 3 G21.
Should be a real Glock hand cannon! It might make my .45 Super rounds seem a little tame.

RWBlue
11-27-2012, 19:04
I went ahead and ordered a .460 kit for my G21 from Thomas at .460Rowland.com today. It should be in about 3 weeks. Maybe before deer season is out here in Georgia on Jan 1st.
I'll order up some .460 brass and 230-240gr. bullets from Midway later this week. Can't wait to see how it does on my Gen 3 G21.
Should be a real Glock hand cannon! It might make my .45 Super rounds seem a little tame.

It really depends on how hot you load your Super vs. Rowland. When I started with my Super, there wasn't much reloading data out there. I went well beyond the Rowland loads. I think the suppressor helped.

21Glock
11-27-2012, 21:04
The problem with any customized setup (even the perfect setup) is that you need to find a buyer that want exactly that setup.

You might have better odds on selling the conversion parts over the internet and the gun locally. This way you are not fighting shipping to an FFL.

As far as price, I don't know. Everyone on the internet never lose money when they sell a gun. Everyone I talk to locally always lose money when they sell a gun.

It really depends on how hot you load your Super vs. Rowland. When I started with my Super, there wasn't much reloading data out there. I went well beyond the Rowland loads. I think the suppressor helped.


Yes, from what I can tell from others on You Tube the comp really helps tame this beast to a large degree. Looking forward to using the .460 and chronying some loads for it.

vaquero aleman
12-01-2012, 16:31
deleted.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/460%20ROWLAND/DSCN0559-4.jpg

ci11
12-04-2012, 10:56
My G21 is now listed in the classified section here at GlockTalk.
It is no longer on the 1st page but it's here.


So what are your plans for 460R after the 21?

vaquero aleman
12-06-2012, 06:39
So what are your plans for 460R after the 21?

I am leaning a little towards setting up a G30 like voonman has. Although, I will most likely buy the parts and do the conversion myself because I already have the tools to do it. I would like to try out the Yankee Hill Machine compensator because it is made of stainless and it has three ports.

At one time I wanted to get a 4" XD and Johnny's kit but I read an article somewhere about an XD converted to 460R being turned in to a gunsmith because it was broken due to the 460R.

vaquero aleman
12-10-2012, 07:55
It would appear that my G21 did not want to leave home. The individual that took ownership had a little mishap at the range and ended up with a cracked frame from a drop. So he offered the pistol to me at half of what he paid. I thought that was very generous so I accepted and decided to, after snooping around the web for repair possibilities, fix it myself.

I already had some experience with plastic welding on a radiator so I applied my knowdedge and for all "practical" purposes fixed the frame. I used a soldering iron and some black nylon weed wacker line.

It was split from the end to the serial number plate.
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300036-1-2.jpg

vaquero aleman
12-19-2012, 21:23
Going to the range with my son this Saturday. He still has the 2nd gen G20 I gave to him. He's been shooting the 10mm for a while now and he wants to see what it's like to shoot 460 Rowland. I think he's in for an "eye opener", as I still do not have a compensated barrel and he will be feeling 230grain @ 1300fps and 185grain @ 1500fps from a standard length plain barrel, with the Sprinco of course. The Sprinco may stop the slide from impacting the frame but it does little to negate the recoil. Think I might have to take some video of this range trip.

vaquero aleman
12-23-2012, 13:47
The range trip was great, mostly. My son had a lot of fun shooting 460 out of my 21 but, unfortunately, the stalls were too narrow to get any video. Bullseye in Lawrenceville needs some work on thier range, badly. I did find a stock G20 6" barrel there so I bought it to shoot in my 21. I put the glock 20 barrel in the 21 with a 20# wolff assy. and first shot 5 rounds of 40S&W 165gr. I had to cycle the 40S&W by hand but it shot just fine out of the G20 mag and barrel; answered that question. Then I shot some 10mm 180gr GA Arms FMJ out of the G21 with stock G20 barrel and it functioned fine except for the extraction, which I expected trouble with that because I didn't have a file to fix the extractor for 10mm; that question answered. The Glock stock G20 6" barrel fit and functioned just fine in my G21. Except that ammo is getting sold out everywhere now, I will start saving a lot of money shooting 10mm over 45 Super and 460 Rowland. Not at home so pics will follow. I like the black barrel in my silver slide.

This now means that my G21 can shoot 6 different cartridges plus the 10mm conversion cartridges. 45ACP, 45ACP +P, 45 Super, .460 Rowland, 10mm, 40S&W, 40 Super, 9X25 Dillon and 357 Sig. IMHO the G21 is the most versatile pistol manufactured.

vaquero aleman
12-25-2012, 07:35
I did not get a new camera for Christmas, apologies.

G21 with factory 6" G20 barrel:

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300088-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300058-1.jpg

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300056-1.jpg

This photo has not been retouched, my camera does not like shiny things:
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300055-1.jpg

Shark1007
12-25-2012, 15:49
Vaquero

I have really enjoyed your accomplishments regarding the .460 Rowland. I too, was bitten by the bug and a friend that owed me some money was a 1911 guru and built me a superb 1911 in .460 with the Clark kit. The recoil spring is really hard to rack and it's an ominous beast.

The problem is I was in car wreck and have herniated disc in neck and I can't even shoot the darned thing because last time I shot a .38/.357 I dinged the disc and had big time issues. After neck surgery and healing, I'll be looking forward to a try. I admire the ballistics of the .460 and have a few rounds saved.

I looked at the Glock 30 conversion, but will have to pass for now. Anyway, I have vicariously enjoyed your mission, thank you amd Merry Christmas.

Roger also US Army vet, 95B40V5T2 as I recall

PS, I saw on the Underwood site that some guy shot a whole box of .45 Super from his Springfield XDS..... yikes! pretty gutsy, I'd say.

vaquero aleman
12-25-2012, 20:26
Thanks.

I shot a few rounds of 45 Super out of my stock G21 barrel and I got bulging and smileys so I quit doing that. Haven't had any problems with the LWD barrels.

Merry Christmas to everybody!

vaquero aleman
01-04-2013, 09:28
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/image001.jpg

Don't hold me to it, but a little birdy, from LWD, told me that a new offering is on the table. It is possible that very soon barrels chambered for .460 Rowland will be available. Hopefully there won't be any legal snags and all of the technical stuff will be worked out, then somebody will have to start a new club.

Well, it seems, LWD has finally gotten around to offering .460 Rowland conversions. But I don't understand the method that they have chosen. I suppose we should be thankful that they didn't tack on an extra $50 for all of thier other conversion barrels. Why not just make .460R barrels and list them? Maybe they will if enough people order a .460 barrel. I'm glad that I did the research and found the chamber reamer to do it myself. Well, I guess we should see this as a positive, at least they are making it available.

vaquero aleman
01-18-2013, 12:56
Just a note, about .460 Rowland, for whom it may concern...

I have noticed that my slide has developed a slight indentation at the slot that the firing pin slides through. It appears that firing .460 Rowland is damaging my slide. The primers have been pounding the steel and it is giving in.

I believe that this may be causing me to have light strikes, when I fired 40 S&W out of my 10mm barrel I had several misfires. The firing pin had obviously struck the primers but they did not ignite.

I am only guessing that this indentation played a role in the misfires, but I am not guessing about the indentation that 460R is causing. If I can get my crappy camera to focus on the slot I can add pics later, but for now the camera is acting a little finicky.

P.S. I have since found out that my gun wasn't cycling the 40S&W because I had re-installed the slide catch incorrectly. The spring was working against me.

RWBlue
01-18-2013, 13:16
If I can get my crappy camera to focus on the slot I can add pics later, but for now the camera is acting a little finicky.

Your pictures are not that unusual.

If you have can....
Don't hold anything, use a tripod or set it up so you can take your hands away.
Use the timer on the camera, so you hand are not on the Camera.
Don't use flash. Sunshine or use enough other lights around the room.

Having shot VERY VERY hot ammo from my G21 Super + suppressor, I don't know what is going on with the breach face.

I am wondering if the other guy did more than just drop the gun.

How do the connections at the rails look? Mine took a beating.

vaquero aleman
01-18-2013, 14:03
The only other thing that I have noticed is that the locking block pin is taking a beating. It's getting a little bent. But I believe everything is ok with the rails and steel inerts. No excessive wear. I am not sure, but isn't the locking block pin some kind of pot metal or aluminum?

Also, I did a complete strip down for cleaning when I first got my G21. And i am 99.99% sure that there was no indentation at the breach face. That is something that I would have noticed, having had some problems with the P226 I had at that time. The 226 had tooling chatter in the beach face that made it look like rust pitting. Though I regret selling it the 226 is long gone. I had the EFK 5" barrel(357 Sig) hogue wraparound finger grips, stainless grip screws, you know...

vaquero aleman
01-21-2013, 09:31
Just a note, about .460 Rowland, for whom it may concern...

I have noticed that my slide has developed a slight indentation at the slot that the firing pin slides through. It appears that firing .460 Rowland is damaging my slide. The primers have been pounding the steel and it is giving in.

I believe that this may be causing me to have light strikes, when I fired 40 S&W out of my 10mm barrel I had several misfires. The firing pin had obviously struck the primers but they did not ignite.

I am only guessing that this indentation played a role in the misfires, but I am not guessing about the indentation that 460R is causing. If I can get my crappy camera to focus on the slot I can add pics later, but for now the camera is acting a little finicky.

P.S. I have since found out that my gun wasn't cycling the 40S&W because I had re-installed the slide catch incorrectly. The spring was working against me.

Borrowed a better camera:
If you noticed that the extractor is protruding too far into the breach it is because I performed the "KKM" modification to it.

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0011-1.jpg

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 13:52
This is from a post I have in "General Glocking", but, as it pertains to this thread I will post it here.

Well, this is what happened at Glock, Inc. Smyrna today. The service rep gave me a ball cap

(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300002_zps5ca8f0a0.jpg)
http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300002_zps5ca8f0a0.jpg
(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300002_zps5ca8f0a0.jpg)[/URL]

And then he proceeded to explain that if I continue firing from this slide it will eventually fail. He couldn't give me a time frame, just that it would fail and also that the repair that I made on the frame would continue to crack and eventually fail as well. I did not get any specific information regarding why the slide is the way it is but pretty much just a sales pitch and a statement that the only thing they were willing to do was to replace the slide and the frame. Since they offered a brand new, last in the house, OD frame with all of the hardware installed and a brand new G21 slide with all of the hardware installed except that I kept my barrel and sights, all for $305.00US I couldn't pass it up. So I don't know any thing more about why the slide was caving in but now I have a new gun. Good enuff fo me. Different serial numbers but I don't care.



http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0008_zps7e4047a0.jpg
(http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/S6300002_zps5ca8f0a0.jpg)[URL="http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/IMG_0008_zps7e4047a0.jpg"]
__________________

RWBlue
02-01-2013, 14:07
So how many rounds did you shoot to use up that gun?

vaquero aleman
02-01-2013, 15:58
I didn't think that I put that many through it. I only shot a couple hundred 460's. I saw very quickly that arguing with a Glock rep was a waste of time, so I guess I will never know the truth.

Jose 357
02-04-2013, 11:48
Awesome thread.

I need an OD Glock 21 now w/.460 Rowland compensated Cali Legal variant.

My goal is to just have it with me for dry camping in remote wooded areas.

bigC

vaquero aleman
02-15-2013, 14:33
I have taken a break from my endeavor. I have sold, locally, my G21 for $700. And, I have replaced it with a Taurus M415 41 Magnum. I plan to, eventually, buy an LWD G21 slide, threaded barrel and a Yankee Hill Machine 45ACP compensator and get back into the .460 Rowland game. But for now, I will just enjoy making lots of noise and flames with my 41 Magnum.

Good luck to all of you guys jumping on the .460 Wagon!

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/7db4ec59-c8d7-40b0-b511-322468d3e6ae_zpsffdf22a0.jpg

vaquero aleman
10-16-2013, 08:23
Well, I don't have a G21 .460 Rowland yet but I have managed to shoot some 460:

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/c51afc43-237a-4bc0-9ef0-70f763b2905f_zpsb963ee00.jpg?t=1381892504

http://i1163.photobucket.com/albums/q547/vaqueroaleman/8b42eb2d-5402-4334-9079-ef81b2967984_zpse5d523b2.jpg?t=1381891943