New to AR's [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JR45
03-18-2012, 15:37
I have the opporyunity to purchase a NIB POF-USA P415
for $1,500 (2009 Build)

Is this a good deal?......Good 1st AR?...........Pros/Cons?

Thanks,
John

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 03:41
Honestly, I wouldn't go with a piston AR as a first AR. They come with their own unique quirks and issues, seperate from direct gas ARs. Plus, they use some parts specific to that brand of piston upper, and you will have to contact the manufacturer for replacements or spares.

If you're looking for a good rifle to learn the AR platform with, there are a lot of options out there for HALF that price, and you could spend the rest on mags, ammo, range time, optic, etc.

TangoFoxtrot
03-19-2012, 04:37
I have to agree with Plank. Piston AR's bring on a new set of problems. There is no standard for them in the industry, every manufacturer has their own setup. Some say they run cleaner. Well the fact is no they don't, the BCG may be cleaner but the piston system up front still has to be cleaned and lubed. Do they run cooler, yes at the BCG but are hot as hell up front. Piston sytems are also nose heavy. Don;'t misunderstand piston systems are coming along fast and will rank side by side with a direct gas soon but for a newbe I would K.I.S.S. and stick with a direct gas for now. Besides with all the money you can save buying a direct gas AR, you can buy extra ammo and practice. Good luck on your purchase.

WayaX
03-19-2012, 12:44
Take that $1500, get a Colt 6920, use the excess money on ammo, magazines, a class, and a copy of "Green Eyes, Black Rifles".

That's probably the best advice for anyone who is completely new to the AR-15 platform.

itstime
03-19-2012, 12:46
Good advice so far. Or go cheaper yet with a Palmetto Arms or Smith & Wesson Sport and get even more ammo.

M&P15T
03-19-2012, 13:05
Yes, that's a good price, if it hasn't been abused.

I'd get it. Don't let the others scare you with their own misgivings, the fact that it's a piston AR only means it will be easier to maintain.

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 13:11
Yes, that's a good price, if it hasn't been abused.

I'd get it. Don't let the others scare you with their own misgivings, the fact that it's a piston AR only means it will be easier to maintain.

Not really. DGI AR just needs the BCG lubed. Piston AR needs the piston, system lubed (under the handguards) and will eventually need the piston head, gas cup, etc cleaned - again, under the handguards.

Plus, piston systems usually mean you have limited to 0 choice in changing rail systems after the fact - a bit of a downer for an AR newbie. Then there's the whole cost aspect.

Javelin
03-19-2012, 13:19
I don't even care what logic was used in concluding a piston AR is easier to maintain than a DI AR.

OP: get it if you want. $1500 currently buys a lot of black rifle so I would consider doing some research and weighing your options carefully.

M&P15T
03-19-2012, 13:45
I don't even care what logic was used in concluding a piston AR is easier to maintain than a DI AR.

OP: get it if you want. $1500 currently buys a lot of black rifle so I would consider doing some research and weighing your options carefully.

Piston ARs don't get as dirty and hot.....pretty simple logic.

M&P15T
03-19-2012, 13:47
Not really. DGI AR just needs the BCG lubed. Piston AR needs the piston, system lubed (under the handguards) and will eventually need the piston head, gas cup, etc cleaned - again, under the handguards.

Plus, piston systems usually mean you have limited to 0 choice in changing rail systems after the fact - a bit of a downer for an AR newbie. Then there's the whole cost aspect.

Piston ARs (most) have an easy to disassemble and clean system. Most slide out for cleaning easily. Far easier than having to clean a filthy chamber upper/lower receiver from a DI system.

Glock 1
03-19-2012, 14:05
I cleaned my DGI AR last night for the first time and found it much easier than I anticipated. I have experience with the piston type so take it for what you paid for it.

Welcome, I am new to AR's too and bought a Colt LE6920. I love the platform. :cool:

Javelin
03-19-2012, 14:07
Piston ARs (most) have an easy to disassemble and clean system. Most slide out for cleaning easily. Far easier than having to clean a filthy chamber upper/lower receiver from a DI system.

When I see a completely filthy chamber I more often than not see an overgassed AR.

But your DI AR can run filthy. Some quality ARs can push very high round counts being dirty. Like 10,000 and still function just fine.

Piston is a solution looking for a problem. If the OP wants a great piston rifle then I would steer him to an Arsenal SGL21.

Patriot III
03-19-2012, 14:14
Piston ARs don't get as dirty and hot.....pretty simple logic.

Hmmmm.... My the barrels and piston housing on my AKs will burn you like a torch. That's pretty hot.

WoodenPlank
03-19-2012, 17:20
Piston ARs don't get as dirty and hot.....pretty simple logic.

They get just as dirty and hot, just the filth and heat go to other places in the gun - often times right under your hands. A piston system isn't a magical black hole for heat and carbon residue.

When I see a completely filthy chamber I more often than not see an overgassed AR.

But your DI AR can run filthy. Some quality ARs can push very high round counts being dirty. Like 10,000 and still function just fine.

Piston is a solution looking for a problem. If the OP wants a great piston rifle then I would steer him to an Arsenal SGL21.

Absolutely. if you want a piston gun, get something that was designed as a piston operation gun to begin with: AK, SCAR, etc.

JR45
03-22-2012, 21:03
Thanks for all the great info!

I went with a new Windham AR15 Carbine!

Thanks again,
John

Patriot III
03-23-2012, 13:06
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/TedG954/Presentation1C.jpg

OOOPS. Too late.

pag23
03-23-2012, 14:40
Take that $1500, get a Colt 6920, use the excess money on ammo, magazines, a class, and a copy of "Green Eyes, Black Rifles".

That's probably the best advice for anyone who is completely new to the AR-15 platform.


This is good advice, but I would recommend looking at some of the other good AR manufacturers as well.

Javelin
03-23-2012, 14:50
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/TedG954/Presentation1C.jpg

OOOPS. Too late.

:rofl:





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