PPQ Recoil [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : PPQ Recoil


HKLovingIT
03-19-2012, 16:16
I see a post here and there that some are concerned the PPQ 9mm has exaggerated recoil.

I own one. It seems about the same as my G19 or anything else polymer 9mm we own. My sons have burned through many a box of ammo and love it. It might have a touch more rise shot to shot but it settles extremely fast, the grip is great and I don't notice any real difference in the amount of recoil felt.

Chime in. If you own one, share your experience of it.:dunno:

Rooster Rugburn
03-19-2012, 17:51
You may be taking tongue-in-cheek posts too seriously.

The background: when an amateur posts a "review" of a pistol, they always try to appear experienced, professional and knowledgeable. This often means parroting what they have heard from others. One of the ways they try to appear to know what they are talking about, is "high bore axis". "High bore axis" is something Glock marketing added to the kool aid because of the obvious stunted look of the Glock. Oddly enough, "high bore axis" really isn't even defined, and it subjective from brand to brand, if it's even mentioned.

So if you want (perceived) instant credibility among your fellow novice shooters, when you do your "review" you throw out stuff like "high bore axis". I don't know if I've ever read a credible and known reviewer using the term, (now they will scour the internet) but I wouldn't be surprised. The amateurs get it from somebody.

The rest of us, who have been shooting for decades in classes, action pistol, and just the range, just pick up a pistol and shoot.

I have Walthers, Glocks, HKs, Sigs, Berettas, XDs, XDms, SW, and probably some I am forgetting. All in multiple calibers. I literally go from pistol to pistol, because I want to be proficient with anything I grab. The legendary massive recoil and muzzle flip are things I've never noticed. I can tell you if a pistol is shooting +P ammo, but really never notice this alleged massive recoil from the "high bore axis".

One novice even said he would hate to shoot a PPQ in 40SW - which is probably what inspired most of the jokes. I do it all the time, and don't really notice any difference between Glock 22, Glock 23, HK USP, Sig P229, Walther P99 and Walther PPQ in .40SW. I've competed IDPA with a P99 in 40 and placed high and won against a lot of different models. If the muzzle flip and recoil were so bad, I don't think I would be competitive. Again, I don't really notice any difference from pistol to pistol, but I will notice +p ammo. But then, I am not looking for it to be there either. I just grab them and shoot.

"High bore axis" is similar to criticism of the magazine release. These (novice) "reviewers" will say that the mag release is stupid, hokie, "eurotrash", but when they say that, they are demonstrating sheer ignorance. The Walther mag release allows you to drop the magazine without changing your grip or even taking the muzzle off target. It's ahead of it's time. But these novice reviewers don't have the experience or understanding to recognize how much of an improvement it is over a small button that requires you to change your grip, and requires significant dexterity in a potentially stressful situation.

Years ago when the P99 was new, the Glockfanboys were criticizing the interchangeable backstraps as unnecessary, "eurotrash" and the like. Now that other manufacturers have adopted the feature, well, maybe it's not so bad.

Maybe it's mass hysteria, maybe it's Glockophelia, maybe it's ego, maybe it's a desire to look like they know more about guns than we do. I don't know. But when we post about massive recoil and muzzle flip, I think most of us are really making fun of the amateurs and fan boys.

.

Metal Angel
03-19-2012, 18:21
Haha. I like your style. I need to be less picky about guns.

cowboy1964
03-19-2012, 18:23
The complaints I've read are "more muzzle flip". You seem to be comfirming that. If it's not a problem, great. It's all relative. I think my 9mm Glocks have noticeably more flip than my non-Glocks. I just deal with it.

Rooster Rugburn
03-19-2012, 18:46
Haha. I like your style. I need to be less picky about guns.

Just pick them up, shoot them, and love them. That's all they really want anyway.

Love your Glock. Love your HK. Love your SWAMP (SWMP). Love your XD. Love your 1911. Love your Beretta. Love your Kimber. Love your Walther. Love your Sig. Love your Kahr. I know I love mine. I love them all for who they are, and the personalities they have unique to themselves.

They are like your children. They have different character, different styles, and differing emotions. But they all have one basic need: to be loved unconditionally. :wipes tear:

HKLovingIT
03-19-2012, 20:00
Well alrighty then. :supergrin:

crazymoose
03-20-2012, 00:03
Yes, the PPQ has more muzzle flip than say, a Glock or a Steyr. But it's hardly what I'd call excessive.

When people talk about the differences in modern pistols, they make a big deal about small differences because so many of them work pretty damned well, and the differences aren't huge. A Glock has less muzzle flip than an HK. Not by much. The HK is more mechanically accurate than the Glock. Not by much. And so on. But there are differences.

Queen Bee
03-20-2012, 08:24
I wish i could find a nice P99AS for less than a glock though.

gumbee
03-20-2012, 12:56
I wish i could find a nice P99AS for less than a glock though.
+1, that is my dream.

TSAX
03-20-2012, 13:01
I wish i could find a nice P99AS for less than a glock though.

+1, that is my dream.

I might be in the minority on this one but before the S&W and Walther collaboration, I liked the S&W 99 better than the Walthers for what ever reason.





:50cal:

fastbolt
03-20-2012, 13:20
Felt recoil & muzzle whip are too subjective for each individual to really have much applicable meaning for a lot of folks.

Ask half a dozen shooters using them gun & ammunition to express and quantify their perception of felt recoil forces, recoil management & controllability ... and you'll probably get 7 descriptions (since at least 1 of them may change their mind at some point during the session :) ).

Perception and opinions change over time and experience for each person, too.

My SW999c (licensed S&W version of the P99 9mm compact AS) feels much more controllable in my hands than my G26, regardless of whether I'm shooting standard pressure, +P or +P+ issued loads.

I've been shooting a few hundred rounds of the 147gr RA9T T-series through one of my G26's and my SW999c recently, and I was surprised to notice that the even with the standard pressure 147gr loads, the SW999c seemed to feel noticeably more controllable during rapid shot strings ... in my hands ... on those days.

When I'd first picked up my 4040PD (scandium aluminum-framed .40 of similar size to the 3913 9mm) several years ago, I felt it had significantly more felt recoil & muzzle whip than my 3913 (even shooting 127gr +P+ loads). I put it away in my safe after only shooting just about a thousand rounds and let it sit for the last several years.

However, I recently pulled it from my safe and decided to run it through a current qual course-of-fire (cold, without any 'warm-up', even though I hadn't used it for some time) ... and realized it felt virtually the same as shooting my 3913. Controllable, accurate, nicely balanced and handling under recoil (180gr loads).

What happened to all the increased felt recoil? Why was I experiencing a different level of felt recoil and muzzle whip?

Well, something's changed, and it wasn't the gun or the ammunition. I've been doing a lot more shooting with other smallish .40 S&W's over the last several years since I'd bought (and then side-lined) the 4040PD. ;) (Meaning of the 5 pistols chambered in .40 which I own, only 1 of them is full-size ... and it's a SW9940.)

Go figure.

Technique, training, experience and practice can really level the field, so to speak, when it comes to most of the commonly seen/used pistols.

I'd still rather shoot 500+ rounds of 9mm over an extended range session, for reasons of recoil forces, followed by .45 ACP and then .40 S&W ... but they're just service-type pistols chambered in the commonly seen defensive pistol calibers.

skud_dusty
03-20-2012, 15:20
Just pick them up, shoot them, and love them. That's all they really want anyway.

Love your Glock. Love your HK. Love your SWAMP (SWMP). Love your XD. Love your 1911. Love your Beretta. Love your Kimber. Love your Walther. Love your Sig. Love your Kahr. I know I love mine. I love them all for who they are, and the personalities they have unique to themselves.

They are like your children. They have different character, different styles, and differing emotions. But they all have one basic need: to be loved unconditionally. :wipes tear:

I...I think I love you :embarassed:

In all seriousness I think more gun owners need to think like this. I try to take everything for what it's worth and enjoy things for what they are, not what they can or should be.

checkyoursix
03-20-2012, 17:11
I find the PPQ to be a truly accurate, fast, balanced gun and have had no issues with the recoil.

That said, in at least two occasions I have let members of my club try it and both shooters were visibly surprised and reacted with surprise when the gun shot. Both commented on the recoil but I don't think that's what happened.

I think that the gun has a very fast trigger, and a very sleek form which might cause an inexperienced shooter to 1) have a non optimal grip which accompanied by 2) a light fast trigger catches them by surprise. I think I saw the gun jump in their hands because their grip wasn't good and they weren't ready to shoot.


They thought it was recoil, they were in good faith and all. They didn't see what happened and recoil is the easy answer which is being now validated by several posts.


Since I teach quite a few students I am planning to use Talon grips on the PPQ and am very curious to see if that little help - recommended by some shooters of the P99 - will cause less experienced shooters to perceive less recoil just because of the increased grasp of the gun those grips afford.


I will report any findings in good time.

HKLovingIT
03-20-2012, 17:30
I find the PPQ to be a truly accurate, fast, balanced gun and have had no issues with the recoil.

That said, in at least two occasions I have let members of my club try it and both shooters were visibly surprised and reacted with surprise when the gun shot. Both commented on the recoil but I don't think that's what happened.

I think that the gun has a very fast trigger, and a very sleek form which might cause an inexperienced shooter to 1) have a non optimal grip which accompanied by 2) a light fast trigger catches them by surprise. I think I saw the gun jump in their hands because their grip wasn't good and they weren't ready to shoot.


They thought it was recoil, they were in good faith and all. They didn't see what happened and recoil is the easy answer which is being now validated by several posts.


Since I teach quite a few students I am planning to use Talon grips on the PPQ and am very curious to see if that little help - recommended by some shooters of the P99 - will cause less experienced shooters to perceive less recoil just because of the increased grasp of the gun those grips afford.


I will report any findings in good time.

That might be it right there. I know first time I had it out I sent a few unexpected double taps down range until I got used to the trigger a bit.

fnfalman
03-20-2012, 19:40
Didn't somebody not that long ago claimed that the 9mm PPQ had massive recoil and worried about being able to handle one chambered in .40SW?

Sporaticus
03-20-2012, 19:45
Didn't somebody not that long ago claimed that the 9mm PPQ had massive recoil and worried about being able to handle one chambered in .40SW?

Yes they certainly did. I remember it because I thought it was such a pathetic remark. Someone trying to sound like an experienced pro, but coming off as an amateur.

checkyoursix
03-20-2012, 19:53
That might be it right there. I know first time I had it out I sent a few unexpected double taps down range until I got used to the trigger a bit.

I forgot to mention it' but I witnessed the same thing with the two shooters I mentioned. This is also something that makes me believe that I might be on the right track.


Another consideration is that when your grip loosens the gun feels higher in your hands - because you are loosening the grip - but if you don't notice it you might think that the bore axis is high, whatever that means.


I recommend the Talon grips an inexpensive solution that makes shooting the P99 that much easier for a lot of people. The G19 size worked very well for the P99 so I ordered those. We shall see.

G31
03-20-2012, 20:53
I've always maintained that any person can be trained to shoot any gun well; it's a matter of training and time. This is why I dislike the saying "carry what you shoot best," because you will shoot best with what you practice most with, whether or not it is your favorite. This is also why I don't disagree with police depts. that authorize only one gun.

You drive a car for long enough, and you become more familiar with it than any other. You can probably parallel park it blindfolded. When someone puts you in a different car, you have to spend a little time learning it and adjusting, and it won't be as good for you right off. Same goes for a gun. Same goes for a trigger type.

joecoastie
03-21-2012, 04:18
Didn't somebody not that long ago claimed that the 9mm PPQ had massive recoil and worried about being able to handle one chambered in .40SW?

I guess by their standards the recoil from a .44 must be instantly lethal to anyone that shoots it.

cooden
03-21-2012, 10:54
Just pick them up, shoot them, and love them. That's all they really want anyway.

Love your Glock. Love your HK. Love your SWAMP (SWMP). Love your XD. Love your 1911. Love your Beretta. Love your Kimber. Love your Walther. Love your Sig. Love your Kahr. I know I love mine. I love them all for who they are, and the personalities they have unique to themselves.

They are like your children. They have different character, different styles, and differing emotions. But they all have one basic need: to be loved unconditionally. :wipes tear:

AMEN! Pick up the gun that YOU are most comfortable with! When you find that gun--practice, practice & more practice!! Get involved in competitive shooting (IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, etc) to get comfortable drawing from a holster, reloading on the move, shooting from cover, shooting multiple targets, etc.

I don't care what gun you own, I just want you to know how to safely use a gun.

Gary1911A1
03-21-2012, 11:42
Shot my PPQ in 9MM on the day I got it along with my Glock 19 with the same ammo and I looked at where the front sight was ending up with both on the backstop. I couldn't tell a difference in 9MM and if there was the better trigger of the PPQ more than made up for it as I did some Bill Drills and my hits were better with the PPQ on my first day with it.:wow: That was an eye opener.:supergrin: