I want my first M4 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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tedthorn
03-20-2012, 17:41
I want a .223 M4 type rifle for around 700 give me a build list so I can play too

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 17:51
As with every other thread in the past week about this, it all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just shoot targets? Home defense? SHTF? Competition?

Also, ARs are generally chambered in 5.56, not .223. A 5.56 chamber allows for use of military pressure 5.56 loads, and the weaker .223 civilian loads.

boomhower
03-20-2012, 17:56
PSA Upper w/ BCG, MBUS & CH $550
PSA Lower $240
= $790

To hit the $700 tag build the lower yourself with the same parts and save $60 will get you pretty close.

3rdgen40
03-20-2012, 18:09
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_753/products_id/411537957/Doublestar+Star+15+M4+16%22+6+Pos.+Stock+.223

Cole125
03-20-2012, 18:14
:popcorn:


We need a sticky in this forum called "First AR, what should I get?". Plenty of guys who know a lot here to get together and put a page together.

tedthorn
03-20-2012, 18:18
As with every other thread in the past week about this, it all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just shoot targets? Home defense? SHTF? Competition?

Also, ARs are generally chambered in 5.56, not .223. A 5.56 chamber allows for use of military pressure 5.56 loads, and the weaker .223 civilian loads.


ehh...thank you, beg your pardon also.....new here

GSSF17
03-20-2012, 18:26
As with every other thread in the past week about this, it all depends on what you want to do. Do you want to just shoot targets? Home defense? SHTF? Competition?

Also, ARs are generally chambered in 5.56, not .223. A 5.56 chamber allows for use of military pressure 5.56 loads, and the weaker .223 civilian loads.

Their google and GT search feature must be broken, is all I can figure.

JaPes
03-20-2012, 18:34
I want a .223 M4 type rifle for around 700 give me a build list so I can play too


Depends on what you want. Complete rifle? Assemble a lower & top it off with a complete upper?

Used to be that you could find a S&W M&P 15-Sport for around $650. It isn't the case anymore, even if you can find one. Won't hurt to look for one.

Check out Palmetto State Armory (http://palmettostatearmory.com/).

If I were to build keeping near a $750 budget, I'd go with a PSA Stripped Lower (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/lower-parts/lower-receivers/psa-ar15-lower.html) and a PSA Mid-Length Rifle Kit (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/rifle-kits/16-hammer-forged-mid-length-rifle-kit.html).

If you have even an ounce of common sense, assembling a lower is easy as can be.

MoneyMaker
03-20-2012, 18:40
alot out there

Nutt51
03-20-2012, 18:44
There are enough makers of AR's and aftermarket AR parts out there to boggle the brain.
First don't get in a rush and make a hasty decision just because you want an AR now. Do a little research and ask questions,
you'll get enough answers to surely confuse you, but do some homework and the final decision will be yours alone.

Second, I'm not being a snob here, but don't set yourself a low limit. You don't have to spend $1500-$2000 for a fine AR any
longer. Spend a little extra on the important parts, upper, lower,
bolt carrier group, barrel, and you can use basic parts like the handguards, sights, stock, etc., and you can customize it with upgrades later.
I have had several different brands of AR's, yes a Colt was one, but I am a die hard fan of BCM's. There are many other fine quality makers out there to choose from, but BCM is a fine outfit.
I'll give you a link for some lengthy reading, but good information in choosing an AR. Best of luck.

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

sr975j
03-20-2012, 19:18
i built my first and only M4 for $775. I got a stripped Spike's lower from Aim Surplus. A Palmetto State Armory lower build kit with Magpul MOE grip and Magpul stock. For the upper, i got a Spike's upper off gunbroker. if you want to save a few bucks, you can get a Palmetto State Armory upper which, from what i hear, are pretty good quality.

Sam

tedthorn
03-20-2012, 19:56
Their google and GT search feature must be broken, is all I can figure.


Works just fine....figured to get ex-pert stuff here

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 20:12
:popcorn:


We need a sticky in this forum called "First AR, what should I get?". Plenty of guys who know a lot here to get together and put a page together.

If I thought an admin would actually sticky one, and that it would help, I'd chip in to help put one together.

Works just fine....figured to get ex-pert stuff here

If you can give us an idea of what you want to do with an AR, we can gladly give you solid advice based off of that.

Patriot III
03-20-2012, 20:24
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/TedG954/ColtLogo1-2.jpg


.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 20:25
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/TedG954/ColtLogo1-2.jpg


.

Colt is not always the answer to every "I want an AR" thread.

Again, different tools for different tasks, and for different price ranges.

K. Foster
03-20-2012, 20:33
As others have said, PSA is a good place to start.

K. Foster
03-20-2012, 20:35
If I thought an admin would actually sticky one, and that it would help, I'd chip in to help put one together.

So would I.

michael_b
03-20-2012, 20:51
They need to sticky one for barrel twist. I'm getting ready to start my first build and I'm confused as to what would be best for my needs.


Posted from my iPhone

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 20:54
They need to sticky one for barrel twist. I'm getting ready to start my first build and I'm confused as to what would be best for my needs.


Posted from my iPhone

Start up a new thread, and you'll get some answers. :supergrin:

tedthorn
03-20-2012, 21:12
Short...it's why i want a M4 it's going to live in my truck
Varmint rifle with lots of lead flying!!!! (from my truck)
Flat top with a red dot type sight
But a fun gun to play with....Im a bolt gun guy that hunts....never wanted a "black rifle"

FriscoCHL
03-20-2012, 21:12
I know very little about the AR platform except for repeating stuff I hear here. However I was just recently in your shoes and purchased an M&P sport for around what you are budgeting for a new rifle. It might not be up to "par" with the almighty colt, but I feel I got a dang good rifle for the money. Am I toting this bad boy into combat? No. Do YOUR research and be honest with yourself with what this rifle is really going to be used for, and get the most rifle you can with the money you have. That way you can hold it, tinker with and shoot it while you learn more about the platform instead of reading what everyone else thinks you need. Ya you can buy a 60,000 sports car to take the kids to school and to the store twice a week... Just my 2 cents.

FriscoCHL
03-20-2012, 21:17
They need to sticky one for barrel twist. I'm getting ready to start my first build and I'm confused as to what would be best for my needs.


Posted from my iPhone

the milspec colt uses a 1/7. so thats got to be the end all...rookie :whistling:

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 21:17
Short...it's why i want a M4 it's going to live in my truck
Varmint rifle with lots of lead flying!!!! (from my truck)
Flat top with a red dot type sight
But a fun gun to play with....Im a bolt gun guy that hunts....never wanted a "black rifle"

I know very little about the AR platform except for repeating stuff I hear here. However I was just recently in your shoes and purchased an M&P sport for around what you are budgeting for a new rifle. It might not be up to "par" with the almighty colt, but I feel I got a dang good rifle for the money. Am I toting this bad boy into combat? No. Do YOUR research and be honest with yourself with what this rifle is really going to be used for, and get the most rifle you can with the money you have. That way you can hold it, tinker with and shoot it while you learn more about the platform instead of reading what everyone else thinks you need. Ya you can buy a 60,000 sports car to take the kids to school and to the store twice a week... Just my 2 cents.

Frisco has a solid suggestion, Ted. For your budget, and what you are planning to use it for (ie: hunting and target shooting), the S&W M&P Sport would be a solid choice.
Flat top upper, fairly reliable, and good barrel and BCG out the box. Add a good red dot to the top of it, and you'd be pretty well set. If you can locate one, going rate on them seems to be around $600-650.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 21:19
the milspec colt uses a 1/7. so thats got to be the end all...rookie :whistling:


It's people like you what cause unrest.... :tongueout:

Serious answer: 1/7 is not the end-all, be-all barrel twist, and isn't ideal for all uses.

FriscoCHL
03-20-2012, 21:27
It's people like you what cause unrest.... :tongueout:

Serious answer: 1/7 is not the end-all, be-all barrel twist, and isn't ideal for all uses.

sorry, I got excited...refer to the first sentence of my earlier post...:cool:

Patriot III
03-20-2012, 21:50
Colt is not always the answer to every "I want an AR" thread.

Again, different tools for different tasks, and for different price ranges.


I don't disagree at all. I just know that in the longer run, I would have saved myself money if I had just bought a Colt in the first place. With that said, I have owned PSA and Spikes, and one of those would be my limited-budget rifles. And, if my budget was even lower, I'd get an AK.

WoodenPlank
03-20-2012, 21:52
I don't disagree at all. I just know that in the longer run, I would have saved myself money if I had just bought a Colt in the first place. With that said, I have owned PSA and Spikes, and one of those would be my limited-budget rifles. And, if my budget was even lower, I'd get an AK.

Yep. There's nothing wrong with a Colt AR, especially if you want a proven brand for a HD/duty/etc. gun. However, not everyone wants or needs that, so not everyone is best served by a Colt 6920.

svtpwnz
03-21-2012, 06:01
Just get a Colt 6920 or a Bravo Company blem lower and BCM upper.

K. Foster
03-21-2012, 08:02
They need to sticky one for barrel twist. I'm getting ready to start my first build and I'm confused as to what would be best for my needs.

There are 2 common twists in M4 type carbines. 1:7 and 1:9 this refers to the distance in inches that it takes a bullet to turn one full rotation, in the barrel. In other words, 1:7 will spin the bullet faster than 1:9. A few companies provide barrels with a 1:8 twist. While this is less common, it may be the optimum twist for most uses, providing good accuracy with a wider range of bullets.
What determines the twist you need is the length of the projectiles you want to shoot. Longer bullets require faster twist. Longer bullets are generally heavier so this is often referred to by bullet weight since the weight is listed on the ammo package in grains. But it is the length of the bullet that technically matters.
My personal experience shooting a variety of loads through different barrels has led to the following guideline. Your milage may vary.
1:9... Bullets ranging from 45 to 69 grains. My best accuracy has come from bullets 55 to 64. Although some barrels will shoot the 69g Fed GMM load very well.
1:7... bullets ranging from 55 to 77. My best accuracy has come from bullets 69g and up. Some barrels will provide good accuracy with the lighter 55g bullets, some will not.
In a nut shell-
If you want to shoot the heavier bullets that are popular for defense (75 and 77g) you’ll need a 1:7 or a 1:8.
If you want you best accuracy to come from the cheaper plinking rounds and don’t want to shoot heavier than 69g, you’ll be fine with a 1:9

michael_b
03-21-2012, 09:38
Start up a new thread, and you'll get some answers. :supergrin:

+1 Thanks Wood, I literally LOL'd on that reply... :rofl:

michael_b
03-21-2012, 09:41
There are 2 common twists in M4 type carbines. 1:7 and 1:9 this refers to the distance in inches that it takes a bullet to turn one full rotation, in the barrel. In other words, 1:7 will spin the bullet faster than 1:9. A few companies provide barrels with a 1:8 twist. While this is less common, it may be the optimum twist for most uses, providing good accuracy with a wider range of bullets.
What determines the twist you need is the length of the projectiles you want to shoot. Longer bullets require faster twist. Longer bullets are generally heavier so this is often referred to by bullet weight since the weight is listed on the ammo package in grains. But it is the length of the bullet that technically matters.
My personal experience shooting a variety of loads through different barrels has led to the following guideline. Your milage may vary.
1:9... Bullets ranging from 45 to 69 grains. My best accuracy has come from bullets 55 to 64. Although some barrels will shoot the 69g Fed GMM load very well.
1:7... bullets ranging from 55 to 77. My best accuracy has come from bullets 69g and up. Some barrels will provide good accuracy with the lighter 55g bullets, some will not.
In a nut shell-
If you want to shoot the heavier bullets that are popular for defense (75 and 77g) you’ll need a 1:7 or a 1:8.
If you want you best accuracy to come from the cheaper plinking rounds and don’t want to shoot heavier than 69g, you’ll be fine with a 1:9

Thanks K! I understand rifling, but was confused on what ratio was best for what bullet type. Your reply was the most clear and concise I've seen. Thanks again! :wavey:

michael_b
03-21-2012, 09:56
the milspec colt uses a 1/7. so thats got to be the end all...rookie :whistling:

It's people like you what cause unrest.... :tongueout:

Serious answer: 1/7 is not the end-all, be-all barrel twist, and isn't ideal for all uses.

sorry, I got excited...refer to the first sentence of my earlier post...:cool:

LMAO...

Rifling seems to be almost as much of a debate as preferred manufacturer lol.

It's my first build, and just for plinking, so I'm looking at a PSA lower and 1:9.

FriscoCHL
03-21-2012, 10:27
LMAO...

Rifling seems to be almost as much of a debate as preferred manufacturer lol.

It's my first build, and just for plinking, so I'm looking at a PSA lower and 1:9.

Ya, I know ZERO about that I was just poking fun at the pony posse. Heck if had the extra loot at the time I prob would have bought a colt. Good luck with your build!!

Did I mention I am hooked on shiner light blonde! That had a little to do with that outburst last night... Cheers

michael_b
03-21-2012, 10:56
Ya, I know ZERO about that I was just poking fun at the pony posse. Heck if had the extra loot at the time I prob would have bought a colt. Good luck with your build!!

Did I mention I am hooked on shiner light blonde! That had a little to do with that outburst last night... Cheers

I'll have to try the light blonde- then stay away from posting lol. :whistling:

Thanks! Picked up some snap caps, and checking with my local range/gun shop today regarding the transfer on a lower edit- looks like they will do it, no problem- ordering today.

Pics will follow I'm sure lol.

Now to sell my SKS to help fund it.

WoodenPlank
03-21-2012, 11:14
+1 Thanks Wood, I literally LOL'd on that reply... :rofl:

Foster's post on barrel twist was solid info. I'm one of the folks that has had good luck with 1/7 barrels and 55gr ammo - both my 10.5 and previous 14.5 barrels.

Sent from the USS Sulaco, while nuking the site from orbit.

K. Foster
03-21-2012, 12:04
Thanks K! I understand rifling, but was confused on what ratio was best for what bullet type. Your reply was the most clear and concise I've seen. Thanks again! :wavey:

Happy to help.

jrs93accord
03-21-2012, 14:57
DS Arms ZM4

CH - http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-US-Made-ZM4_AR15-Alloy-Charging-handle-Complete---ZM48518/productinfo/ZM48518/ ($14)

Semi-Auto BCG - http://www.dsarms.com/ZM4_AR15-Semi-Auto-Complete-Bolt-Group-Assembly---ZM4BCG/productinfo/ZM4BCG/ ($110)

Complete Lower - http://www.dsarms.com/Model-ZM4-Complete-Lower-Receiver-With-Mil-Spec-Stock-Assembly---ZM4RCAR/productinfo/ZM4RCAR/ ($200)

Upper Assembly - http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-A3-Upper-Receiver-With-16-Barrel--PARKED--M4---ZM4CBUPARK/productinfo/ZM4CBUPARK/ ($240)

Detachable carrying handle - http://www.dsarms.com/AR15-Removable-Carry-Handle-----MARCH/productinfo/MARCH/ ($84.95)

TOTAL (minus shipping and applicable fees) - 648.95

Here is what it would look like assembled.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/005-4.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/006-2.jpg

arclight610
03-21-2012, 17:18
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/TedG954/ColtLogo1-2.jpg


.

There is definitely alot of people that bought the "best" house that would argue that right after 2008

257 roberts
03-21-2012, 17:29
I bought the Spikes Tactical M4-LE,so far real happy with it,recently put a Burris AR332 on it

michael_b
03-22-2012, 15:27
Foster's post on barrel twist was solid info. I'm one of the folks that has had good luck with 1/7 barrels and 55gr ammo - both my 10.5 and previous 14.5 barrels.

Sent from the USS Sulaco, while nuking the site from orbit.

Really? Okay, that info doesn't help me lol. Maybe I'll try 1:7 and test my luck.

I think I'm going to copy and paste Foster's post, laminate it, and put in my firearm tool box so I don't forget.

+1 - Game over man, game over...